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Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"

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  • Tyson
    ... Harold and paul also claim that sugmad is beyond duality and that the universal mind(kal) is the negative pole of creation. Yet paul also uses the hindu
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > FYI: When Harold Klemp
      > or any member of the
      > Eckankar cult mentions
      > "God" it is not the same
      > God others worship. This
      > is a misdirection... a lie!
      >
      > According to Eckankar's
      > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
      > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
      > "Autobiography of a Modern
      > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
      > that all other religions
      > worship is Satan, i.e. the
      > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
      > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
      > etc. is a limited God and is
      > on a lower plane of consciousness
      > than any and all ECK Higher
      > Initiates!
      >
      > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
      > to Eckankar's religious dogma
      > and according to their spiritual
      > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
      > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
      > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
      > worship and pray to!
      >
      > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
      > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
      > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
      > However, Eckankar's true God,
      > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
      > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
      >
      > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
      > use the word "God" it's not what
      > they mean. They are really referring
      > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
      > thinking of how stupid people are
      > to think they are referring to the
      > same God they believe in versus
      > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
      > the foolish public might as well
      > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
      >
      > For some reason Klemp, the
      > highest consciousness on earth,
      > thinks that it's okay to deceive
      > people with his "common language"
      > excuse/approach/rationalization,
      > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
      > And, of course, ECKists have bought
      > into this deception because they
      > don't dare question the methods
      > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
      >
      > And so it goes on and on with
      > more and more deception when
      > ever "God" is mentioned by an
      > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
      > think that the Truth would be
      > important to people who claim
      > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
      > advanced as Eckists believe they
      > are!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      Harold and paul also claim that sugmad is beyond duality and that the universal mind(kal) is the negative pole of creation. Yet paul also uses the hindu name Anami Purusha as a manifestation of sugmad. I think it means inconcievable or unknowable purusha. The name purusha is actually a God that sometimes referes to the universe itself for the universe is the body of purusha. purusha is also considered to be represented as male thus I see duality in this. Prakita is the divine mother(matter) purusha is the divine father(spirit) when the two come together spirit enters matter(lila) thus the divine dance of creation begins. I dont think eckists would like to know that there name purusha came from what I consider a beautiful Hindu myth and they owe there creation to hinduism not the other way around.
    • dianastanley43
      I don t believe Darwin ever thought he was God. It was a good game and he played it well for a time. Harold in my opionion does believe he is God which is a
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
        I don't believe Darwin ever thought he was God. It was a good game and he played it well for a time.
        Harold in my opionion does believe he is God which is a lot scarier!
        Diana

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > FYI: When Harold Klemp
        > or any member of the
        > Eckankar cult mentions
        > "God" it is not the same
        > God others worship. This
        > is a misdirection... a lie!
        >
        > According to Eckankar's
        > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
        > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
        > "Autobiography of a Modern
        > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
        > that all other religions
        > worship is Satan, i.e. the
        > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
        > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
        > etc. is a limited God and is
        > on a lower plane of consciousness
        > than any and all ECK Higher
        > Initiates!
        >
        > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
        > to Eckankar's religious dogma
        > and according to their spiritual
        > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
        > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
        > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
        > worship and pray to!
        >
        > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
        > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
        > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
        > However, Eckankar's true God,
        > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
        > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
        >
        > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
        > use the word "God" it's not what
        > they mean. They are really referring
        > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
        > thinking of how stupid people are
        > to think they are referring to the
        > same God they believe in versus
        > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
        > the foolish public might as well
        > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
        >
        > For some reason Klemp, the
        > highest consciousness on earth,
        > thinks that it's okay to deceive
        > people with his "common language"
        > excuse/approach/rationalization,
        > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
        > And, of course, ECKists have bought
        > into this deception because they
        > don't dare question the methods
        > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
        >
        > And so it goes on and on with
        > more and more deception when
        > ever "God" is mentioned by an
        > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
        > think that the Truth would be
        > important to people who claim
        > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
        > advanced as Eckists believe they
        > are!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Diana and All, I agree that Darwin didn t think he was God and unapproachable. In that aspect he was rather spiritually humble, although, he was very
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
          Hello Diana and All,
          I agree that Darwin didn't
          think he was "God" and
          unapproachable. In that
          aspect he was rather
          spiritually humble, although,
          he was very egotistical/vain
          in other ways. Quite the
          ladies man, flashy dresser
          and big spender too! He
          saw himself as the "front man"
          for Eckankar who had to
          maintain an image so to
          speak, whereas, Klemp
          is the "cave man" and recluse
          of Eckankar. Plus, Darwin
          took advice from his Board
          of Trustees and the org
          was rather democratically
          run and operated. DG didn't
          use the "Mahanta" card to
          run roughshod over the EK
          Board. It was more a peer-
          to-peer relationship since,
          supposedly, Soul=Soul.

          However, that all changed
          with Klemp. He installed
          the RESA Hierarchy and
          the Guidelines and made
          it clear from the start that
          Eckankar was a hierarchy
          and he was the Top Dog
          who was beyond reproach.
          Therefore, the "Soul equals
          Soul" approach to spirituality,
          within Eckankar has, now,
          merely become Lip Service
          for Klemp's RESA hierarchy.

          Ever so slowly Klemp has
          chipped away at the original
          foundation of Twitchell's
          Eckankar. He has introduced
          "stories" and a conservative,
          Lutheran, King James approach
          with some New Age smatterings.

          It's quite sad how Klemp has
          made it impossible for Eckists
          to advance beyond the 7th
          initiation and claim their own
          Mastership and Spiritual Liberation.
          They are forever tied to him
          via Mahanta Codependency!

          Prometheus

          dianastanley wrote:
          I don't believe Darwin ever
          thought he was God. It was
          a good game and he played
          it well for a time.

          Harold in my opionion does
          believe he is God which is
          a lot scarier!
          Diana

          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > FYI: When Harold Klemp
          > or any member of the
          > Eckankar cult mentions
          > "God" it is not the same
          > God others worship. This
          > is a misdirection... a lie!
          >
          > According to Eckankar's
          > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
          > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
          > "Autobiography of a Modern
          > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
          > that all other religions
          > worship is Satan, i.e. the
          > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
          > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
          > etc. is a limited God and is
          > on a lower plane of consciousness
          > than any and all ECK Higher
          > Initiates!
          >
          > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
          > to Eckankar's religious dogma
          > and according to their spiritual
          > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
          > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
          > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
          > worship and pray to!
          >
          > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
          > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
          > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
          > However, Eckankar's true God,
          > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
          > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
          >
          > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
          > use the word "God" it's not what
          > they mean. They are really referring
          > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
          > thinking of how stupid people are
          > to think they are referring to the
          > same God they believe in versus
          > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
          > the foolish public might as well
          > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
          >
          > For some reason Klemp, the
          > highest consciousness on earth,
          > thinks that it's okay to deceive
          > people with his "common language"
          > excuse/approach/rationalization,
          > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
          > And, of course, ECKists have bought
          > into this deception because they
          > don't dare question the methods
          > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
          >
          > And so it goes on and on with
          > more and more deception when
          > ever "God" is mentioned by an
          > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
          > think that the Truth would be
          > important to people who claim
          > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
          > advanced as Eckists believe they
          > are!
          >
          > Prometheus
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Tyson and All, I don t even know what duality or beyond duality means when coming from scamming religionists. These people talk out of both sides of
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
            Hello Tyson and All,
            I don't even know what
            duality or beyond duality
            means when coming from
            scamming religionists.
            These people talk out of
            both sides of their mouth.
            They say what sounds "spiritual"
            or seems "profound" or
            logical because they claim
            to be enlightened authorities.
            But, they are hypocrites
            who love to twist and turn
            words to fit their greedy,
            self-serving, ego driven,
            power mongering agendas!

            The "Divine" might not even
            care about positive and negative
            traits, atoms, agendas, sex etc.

            Let's face one fact... mankind
            created and defined "God" in
            his own (man's) image. This
            Hindu stuff is just another
            view and explanation of
            cosmology like that from the
            Quran, Old Testament or of
            the Greek and Roman Gods,
            etc.

            As far as Anami goes, PT claims
            that the Anami Lok is where
            Sugmad resides and, yet, the
            Anami Lok is the 10th Plane.

            Therefore, SUGMAD resides
            on the 10th and Klemp (the
            Mahanta) on the 14th. I guess
            that makes Klemp Higher than
            Sugmad! So, why doesn't HE,
            HK, want to be worshipped?
            I guess little Harry is a humble
            God... right? I love it when he
            has a chela mention his humility.
            Humble people never have to
            bring up that word... it's a
            given that others simply "know."
            Therfore, Klemp (by printing
            these comments about his
            "humility") isn't!

            Yes, Twitchell used Hinduism,
            Sikhism, Christianity and theosophy
            etc. to create a hodge-podge New
            Age religion just as distorted, if
            not more so, as his sources.

            There is a lot of Sikhism (and
            Sikhism has Hindu roots) via
            Ruhani Satsang and Radasoami
            and "The Path of the Masters"
            in Eckankar. This book, more
            than any other, was Twitchell's
            blueprint for creating Eckankar.

            Remember, too, Twitchell
            followed Kirpal Singh, of Ruhani
            Satsang, for ten years, and
            Kirpal had PT's Tiger's Fang
            manuscript until he returned
            it in 1966. The Rebazar character
            took the place of Kirpal after
            he and Twitchell had a falling
            out due to Paul's embellishments.
            Paul thought it'd be okay to
            portray himself with special
            spiritual powers and consciousness
            as long as Kirpal was given
            even greater powers. But,
            Kirpal didn't buy into it. He
            saw through Twitchell scam
            and knew he had ulterior motives.

            Prometheus


            Tyson wrote:
            Harold and paul also claim
            that sugmad is beyond duality
            and that the universal mind
            (kal) is the negative pole of
            creation.

            Yet paul also uses the hindu
            name Anami Purusha as a
            manifestation of sugmad.

            I think it means inconcievable
            or unknowable purusha.
            The name purusha is actually
            a God that sometimes refers
            to the universe itself for the
            universe is the body of purusha.

            purusha is also considered
            to be represented as male
            thus I see duality in this.

            Prakita is the divine mother
            (matter) purusha is the divine
            father (spirit) when the two
            come together spirit enters
            matter (lila) thus the divine
            dance of creation begins.
            I dont think eckists would
            like to know that there name
            purusha came from what
            I consider a beautiful Hindu
            myth and they owe there
            creation to hinduism not
            the other way around.


            Prometheus wrote:
            Hello All,
            > FYI: When Harold Klemp
            > or any member of the
            > Eckankar cult mentions
            > "God" it is not the same
            > God others worship. This
            > is a misdirection... a lie!
            >
            > According to Eckankar's
            > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
            > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
            > "Autobiography of a Modern
            > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
            > that all other religions
            > worship is Satan, i.e. the
            > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
            > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
            > etc. is a limited God and is
            > on a lower plane of consciousness
            > than any and all ECK Higher
            > Initiates!
            >
            > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
            > to Eckankar's religious dogma
            > and according to their spiritual
            > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
            > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
            > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
            > worship and pray to!
            >
            > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
            > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
            > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
            > However, Eckankar's true God,
            > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
            > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
            >
            > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
            > use the word "God" it's not what
            > they mean. They are really referring
            > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
            > thinking of how stupid people are
            > to think they are referring to the
            > same God they believe in versus
            > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
            > the foolish public might as well
            > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
            >
            > For some reason Klemp, the
            > highest consciousness on earth,
            > thinks that it's okay to deceive
            > people with his "common language"
            > excuse/approach/rationalization,
            > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
            > And, of course, ECKists have bought
            > into this deception because they
            > don't dare question the methods
            > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
            >
            > And so it goes on and on with
            > more and more deception when
            > ever "God" is mentioned by an
            > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
            > think that the Truth would be
            > important to people who claim
            > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
            > advanced as Eckists believe they
            > are!
            >
            > Prometheus
          • etznab@aol.com
            Anami means nameless , I believe. The Eckankar Dictionary & Lexicon mention a number of Purushas. Sat Purusha, Alakh Purusha, Alaya Purusha, Hukikat Purusha,
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
              Anami means "nameless", I believe.

              The Eckankar Dictionary & Lexicon mention a number of Purushas. Sat
              Purusha, Alakh Purusha, Alaya Purusha, Hukikat Purusha, Agam Purusha &
              Anami Purusha (Not sure if Anami Purusha is mentioned in early Eckankar
              Dictionary.)

              Alternate spellings for Purusha include Purakh, Purakhu, Purukh and
              Purukutsa. Alternate spellings for Prakriti include Prakrta.

              Purakh appears in Guru Nanak's Mool Mantra, 1st line (I've seen it
              spelled Purukh too).

              http://www.sikhnet.com/oldsikhnet/sggs/translation/0001.html

              On one site Purakh = soul.

              http://www.heavenlygardens.org/japjie/japjip0.htm





              -----Original Message-----
              From: Tyson <abunjoroge@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
              <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:57 pm
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"

               


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > FYI: When Harold Klemp
              > or any member of the
              > Eckankar cult mentions
              > "God" it is not the same
              > God others worship. This
              > is a misdirection... a lie!
              >
              > According to Eckankar's
              > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
              > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
              > "Autobiography of a Modern
              > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
              > that all other religions
              > worship is Satan, i.e. the
              > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
              > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
              > etc. is a limited God and is
              > on a lower plane of consciousness
              > than any and all ECK Higher
              > Initiates!
              >
              > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
              > to Eckankar's religious dogma
              > and according to their spiritual
              > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
              > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
              > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
              > worship and pray to!
              >
              > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
              > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
              > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
              > However, Eckankar's true God,
              > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
              > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
              >
              > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
              > use the word "God" it's not what
              > they mean. They are really referring
              > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
              > thinking of how stupid people are
              > to think they are referring to the
              > same God they believe in versus
              > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
              > the foolish public might as well
              > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
              >
              > For some reason Klemp, the
              > highest consciousness on earth,
              > thinks that it's okay to deceive
              > people with his "common language"
              > excuse/approach/rationalization,
              > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
              > And, of course, ECKists have bought
              > into this deception because they
              > don't dare question the methods
              > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
              >
              > And so it goes on and on with
              > more and more deception when
              > ever "God" is mentioned by an
              > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
              > think that the Truth would be
              > important to people who claim
              > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
              > advanced as Eckists believe they
              > are!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              Harold and paul also claim that sugmad is beyond duality and that the
              universal mind(kal) is the negative pole of creation. Yet paul also
              uses the hindu name Anami Purusha as a manifestation of sugmad. I think
              it means inconcievable or unknowable purusha. The name purusha is
              actually a God that sometimes referes to the universe itself for the
              universe is the body of purusha. purusha is also considered to be
              represented as male thus I see duality in this. Prakita is the divine
              mother(matter) purusha is the divine father(spirit) when the two come
              together spirit enters matter(lila) thus the divine dance of creation
              begins. I dont think eckists would like to know that there name purusha
              came from what I consider a beautiful Hindu myth and they owe there
              creation to hinduism not the other way around.
            • etznab@aol.com
              This will tell the story. Page search for Anami here. http://www.mirrorh.com/potmnots.html And then here. http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html Notice how similar
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
                This will tell the story. Page search for Anami here.

                http://www.mirrorh.com/potmnots.html

                And then here.

                http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html

                Notice how similar are Paul Twitchell and Julian Johnson's quotes.





                -----Original Message-----
                From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sat, Oct 1, 2011 6:13 pm
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"

                 
                Hello Tyson and All,
                I don't even know what
                duality or beyond duality
                means when coming from
                scamming religionists.
                These people talk out of
                both sides of their mouth.
                They say what sounds "spiritual"
                or seems "profound" or
                logical because they claim
                to be enlightened authorities.
                But, they are hypocrites
                who love to twist and turn
                words to fit their greedy,
                self-serving, ego driven,
                power mongering agendas!

                The "Divine" might not even
                care about positive and negative
                traits, atoms, agendas, sex etc.

                Let's face one fact... mankind
                created and defined "God" in
                his own (man's) image. This
                Hindu stuff is just another
                view and explanation of
                cosmology like that from the
                Quran, Old Testament or of
                the Greek and Roman Gods,
                etc.

                As far as Anami goes, PT claims
                that the Anami Lok is where
                Sugmad resides and, yet, the
                Anami Lok is the 10th Plane.

                Therefore, SUGMAD resides
                on the 10th and Klemp (the
                Mahanta) on the 14th. I guess
                that makes Klemp Higher than
                Sugmad! So, why doesn't HE,
                HK, want to be worshipped?
                I guess little Harry is a humble
                God... right? I love it when he
                has a chela mention his humility.
                Humble people never have to
                bring up that word... it's a
                given that others simply "know."
                Therfore, Klemp (by printing
                these comments about his
                "humility") isn't!

                Yes, Twitchell used Hinduism,
                Sikhism, Christianity and theosophy
                etc. to create a hodge-podge New
                Age religion just as distorted, if
                not more so, as his sources.

                There is a lot of Sikhism (and
                Sikhism has Hindu roots) via
                Ruhani Satsang and Radasoami
                and "The Path of the Masters"
                in Eckankar. This book, more
                than any other, was Twitchell's
                blueprint for creating Eckankar.

                Remember, too, Twitchell
                followed Kirpal Singh, of Ruhani
                Satsang, for ten years, and
                Kirpal had PT's Tiger's Fang
                manuscript until he returned
                it in 1966. The Rebazar character
                took the place of Kirpal after
                he and Twitchell had a falling
                out due to Paul's embellishments.
                Paul thought it'd be okay to
                portray himself with special
                spiritual powers and consciousness
                as long as Kirpal was given
                even greater powers. But,
                Kirpal didn't buy into it. He
                saw through Twitchell scam
                and knew he had ulterior motives.

                Prometheus

                Tyson wrote:
                Harold and paul also claim
                that sugmad is beyond duality
                and that the universal mind
                (kal) is the negative pole of
                creation.

                Yet paul also uses the hindu
                name Anami Purusha as a
                manifestation of sugmad.

                I think it means inconcievable
                or unknowable purusha.
                The name purusha is actually
                a God that sometimes refers
                to the universe itself for the
                universe is the body of purusha.

                purusha is also considered
                to be represented as male
                thus I see duality in this.

                Prakita is the divine mother
                (matter) purusha is the divine
                father (spirit) when the two
                come together spirit enters
                matter (lila) thus the divine
                dance of creation begins.
                I dont think eckists would
                like to know that there name
                purusha came from what
                I consider a beautiful Hindu
                myth and they owe there
                creation to hinduism not
                the other way around.

                Prometheus wrote:
                Hello All,
                > FYI: When Harold Klemp
                > or any member of the
                > Eckankar cult mentions
                > "God" it is not the same
                > God others worship. This
                > is a misdirection... a lie!
                >
                > According to Eckankar's
                > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
                > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
                > "Autobiography of a Modern
                > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
                > that all other religions
                > worship is Satan, i.e. the
                > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
                > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
                > etc. is a limited God and is
                > on a lower plane of consciousness
                > than any and all ECK Higher
                > Initiates!
                >
                > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
                > to Eckankar's religious dogma
                > and according to their spiritual
                > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
                > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
                > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
                > worship and pray to!
                >
                > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
                > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
                > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
                > However, Eckankar's true God,
                > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
                > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
                >
                > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
                > use the word "God" it's not what
                > they mean. They are really referring
                > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
                > thinking of how stupid people are
                > to think they are referring to the
                > same God they believe in versus
                > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
                > the foolish public might as well
                > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
                >
                > For some reason Klemp, the
                > highest consciousness on earth,
                > thinks that it's okay to deceive
                > people with his "common language"
                > excuse/approach/rationalization,
                > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
                > And, of course, ECKists have bought
                > into this deception because they
                > don't dare question the methods
                > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
                >
                > And so it goes on and on with
                > more and more deception when
                > ever "God" is mentioned by an
                > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
                > think that the Truth would be
                > important to people who claim
                > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
                > advanced as Eckists believe they
                > are!
                >
                > Prometheus
              • prometheus_973
                Hello Etznab, No, I don t think Anami Purusha was in PT s Eckankar Dictionary. IMO, it was added, by Klemp, to his 1998 Lexicon. However, in this case, it
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 2, 2011
                  Hello Etznab,
                  No, I don't think Anami Purusha
                  was in PT's Eckankar Dictionary.
                  IMO, it was added, by Klemp, to
                  his 1998 Lexicon.

                  However, in this case, it appears
                  that Klemp was merely tweaking
                  the EK Dogma that Twit, and/or
                  DG, had overlooked.


                  In the Shariyat Book One, Chapter
                  Five, Anami Purusha is:

                  "The first focus of action was the
                  ruler of the Anami Plane, named
                  Anami Purusha."


                  But, it seems strange that SUGMAD
                  created the Anami Lok where Anami
                  Purusha rules and, yet, the Sugmad
                  (according to Klemp) resides on
                  this same lower 10th Plane. Now,
                  why would the great SUGMAD reside
                  on the 10th Plane with Anami Purusha
                  (a lesser creation) when the Mahanta
                  (Klemp) is residing on the 14th Plane?

                  BTW- Which Plane does the Mahanta
                  Rule?

                  Anyway, here's the definition for
                  ANAMI LOK from Klemp's first ECK
                  Lexicon:

                  "That plane where SOULS are
                  reproduced by the Lord of Lords
                  reacting upon Itself; the world
                  of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad;
                  the mighty center of the universes,
                  the very heart and core of all life
                  and existence. The sound here
                  is of the whirlpool, and the word
                  is HU; the TENTH Plane; the
                  Nameless Plane."

                  Interesting that most ECKists
                  have never noticed or questioned
                  this disparity. It seems this
                  info was extracted from Hindu
                  or Sant Mat sources early on,
                  by PT, and was never tweaked
                  to fit in with his new but ever
                  changing EK dogma/scam,
                  especially, after creating the
                  14th Plane "Mahanta" in 1969.

                  Either this was overlooked or it
                  was seen as a minor issue that
                  could always have a fabricated
                  ekplanation, if need be, on down
                  the road.

                  Prometheus


                  etznab@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Anami means "nameless", I believe.
                  >
                  > The Eckankar Dictionary & Lexicon mention a number of Purushas. Sat
                  > Purusha, Alakh Purusha, Alaya Purusha, Hukikat Purusha, Agam Purusha &
                  > Anami Purusha (Not sure if Anami Purusha is mentioned in early Eckankar
                  > Dictionary.)
                  >
                  > Alternate spellings for Purusha include Purakh, Purakhu, Purukh and
                  > Purukutsa. Alternate spellings for Prakriti include Prakrta.
                  >
                  > Purakh appears in Guru Nanak's Mool Mantra, 1st line (I've seen it
                  > spelled Purukh too).
                  >
                  > http://www.sikhnet.com/oldsikhnet/sggs/translation/0001.html
                  >
                  > On one site Purakh = soul.
                  >
                  > http://www.heavenlygardens.org/japjie/japjip0.htm
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Tyson <abunjoroge@...>
                  > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                  > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:57 pm
                  > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                  > prometheus_973@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello All,
                  > > FYI: When Harold Klemp
                  > > or any member of the
                  > > Eckankar cult mentions
                  > > "God" it is not the same
                  > > God others worship. This
                  > > is a misdirection... a lie!
                  > >
                  > > According to Eckankar's
                  > > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
                  > > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
                  > > "Autobiography of a Modern
                  > > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
                  > > that all other religions
                  > > worship is Satan, i.e. the
                  > > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
                  > > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
                  > > etc. is a limited God and is
                  > > on a lower plane of consciousness
                  > > than any and all ECK Higher
                  > > Initiates!
                  > >
                  > > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
                  > > to Eckankar's religious dogma
                  > > and according to their spiritual
                  > > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
                  > > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
                  > > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
                  > > worship and pray to!
                  > >
                  > > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
                  > > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
                  > > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
                  > > However, Eckankar's true God,
                  > > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
                  > > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
                  > >
                  > > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
                  > > use the word "God" it's not what
                  > > they mean. They are really referring
                  > > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
                  > > thinking of how stupid people are
                  > > to think they are referring to the
                  > > same God they believe in versus
                  > > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
                  > > the foolish public might as well
                  > > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
                  > >
                  > > For some reason Klemp, the
                  > > highest consciousness on earth,
                  > > thinks that it's okay to deceive
                  > > people with his "common language"
                  > > excuse/approach/rationalization,
                  > > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
                  > > And, of course, ECKists have bought
                  > > into this deception because they
                  > > don't dare question the methods
                  > > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
                  > >
                  > > And so it goes on and on with
                  > > more and more deception when
                  > > ever "God" is mentioned by an
                  > > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
                  > > think that the Truth would be
                  > > important to people who claim
                  > > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
                  > > advanced as Eckists believe they
                  > > are!
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > Harold and paul also claim that sugmad is beyond duality and that the
                  > universal mind(kal) is the negative pole of creation. Yet paul also
                  > uses the hindu name Anami Purusha as a manifestation of sugmad. I think
                  > it means inconcievable or unknowable purusha. The name purusha is
                  > actually a God that sometimes referes to the universe itself for the
                  > universe is the body of purusha. purusha is also considered to be
                  > represented as male thus I see duality in this. Prakita is the divine
                  > mother(matter) purusha is the divine father(spirit) when the two come
                  > together spirit enters matter(lila) thus the divine dance of creation
                  > begins. I dont think eckists would like to know that there name purusha
                  > came from what I consider a beautiful Hindu myth and they owe there
                  > creation to hinduism not the other way around.
                  >
                • etznab18
                  Just now reading this message as my Yahoo account (the e-mail from Yahoo groups) has bounced for the um-teenth time this year. When this happens I have to
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 4, 2011
                    Just now reading this message as my Yahoo account (the e-mail from Yahoo groups) has bounced for the um-teenth time this year. When this happens I have to first unbounce the account and then have to search each Yahoo group to see which messages I missed.

                    Thanks for posting the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad quote.

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Etznab,
                    > No, I don't think Anami Purusha
                    > was in PT's Eckankar Dictionary.
                    > IMO, it was added, by Klemp, to
                    > his 1998 Lexicon.
                    >
                    > However, in this case, it appears
                    > that Klemp was merely tweaking
                    > the EK Dogma that Twit, and/or
                    > DG, had overlooked.
                    >
                    >
                    > In the Shariyat Book One, Chapter
                    > Five, Anami Purusha is:
                    >
                    > "The first focus of action was the
                    > ruler of the Anami Plane, named
                    > Anami Purusha."
                    >
                    >
                    > But, it seems strange that SUGMAD
                    > created the Anami Lok where Anami
                    > Purusha rules and, yet, the Sugmad
                    > (according to Klemp) resides on
                    > this same lower 10th Plane. Now,
                    > why would the great SUGMAD reside
                    > on the 10th Plane with Anami Purusha
                    > (a lesser creation) when the Mahanta
                    > (Klemp) is residing on the 14th Plane?
                    >
                    > BTW- Which Plane does the Mahanta
                    > Rule?
                    >
                    > Anyway, here's the definition for
                    > ANAMI LOK from Klemp's first ECK
                    > Lexicon:
                    >
                    > "That plane where SOULS are
                    > reproduced by the Lord of Lords
                    > reacting upon Itself; the world
                    > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad;
                    > the mighty center of the universes,
                    > the very heart and core of all life
                    > and existence. The sound here
                    > is of the whirlpool, and the word
                    > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the
                    > Nameless Plane."
                    >
                    > Interesting that most ECKists
                    > have never noticed or questioned
                    > this disparity. It seems this
                    > info was extracted from Hindu
                    > or Sant Mat sources early on,
                    > by PT, and was never tweaked
                    > to fit in with his new but ever
                    > changing EK dogma/scam,
                    > especially, after creating the
                    > 14th Plane "Mahanta" in 1969.
                    >
                    > Either this was overlooked or it
                    > was seen as a minor issue that
                    > could always have a fabricated
                    > ekplanation, if need be, on down
                    > the road.
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    >
                    > etznab@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Anami means "nameless", I believe.
                    > >
                    > > The Eckankar Dictionary & Lexicon mention a number of Purushas. Sat
                    > > Purusha, Alakh Purusha, Alaya Purusha, Hukikat Purusha, Agam Purusha &
                    > > Anami Purusha (Not sure if Anami Purusha is mentioned in early Eckankar
                    > > Dictionary.)
                    > >
                    > > Alternate spellings for Purusha include Purakh, Purakhu, Purukh and
                    > > Purukutsa. Alternate spellings for Prakriti include Prakrta.
                    > >
                    > > Purakh appears in Guru Nanak's Mool Mantra, 1st line (I've seen it
                    > > spelled Purukh too).
                    > >
                    > > http://www.sikhnet.com/oldsikhnet/sggs/translation/0001.html
                    > >
                    > > On one site Purakh = soul.
                    > >
                    > > http://www.heavenlygardens.org/japjie/japjip0.htm
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: Tyson <abunjoroge@>
                    > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                    > > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:57 pm
                    > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"
                    > >
                    > >  
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                    > > prometheus_973@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello All,
                    > > > FYI: When Harold Klemp
                    > > > or any member of the
                    > > > Eckankar cult mentions
                    > > > "God" it is not the same
                    > > > God others worship. This
                    > > > is a misdirection... a lie!
                    > > >
                    > > > According to Eckankar's
                    > > > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
                    > > > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
                    > > > "Autobiography of a Modern
                    > > > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
                    > > > that all other religions
                    > > > worship is Satan, i.e. the
                    > > > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
                    > > > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
                    > > > etc. is a limited God and is
                    > > > on a lower plane of consciousness
                    > > > than any and all ECK Higher
                    > > > Initiates!
                    > > >
                    > > > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
                    > > > to Eckankar's religious dogma
                    > > > and according to their spiritual
                    > > > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
                    > > > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
                    > > > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
                    > > > worship and pray to!
                    > > >
                    > > > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
                    > > > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
                    > > > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
                    > > > However, Eckankar's true God,
                    > > > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
                    > > > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
                    > > >
                    > > > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
                    > > > use the word "God" it's not what
                    > > > they mean. They are really referring
                    > > > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
                    > > > thinking of how stupid people are
                    > > > to think they are referring to the
                    > > > same God they believe in versus
                    > > > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
                    > > > the foolish public might as well
                    > > > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
                    > > >
                    > > > For some reason Klemp, the
                    > > > highest consciousness on earth,
                    > > > thinks that it's okay to deceive
                    > > > people with his "common language"
                    > > > excuse/approach/rationalization,
                    > > > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
                    > > > And, of course, ECKists have bought
                    > > > into this deception because they
                    > > > don't dare question the methods
                    > > > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
                    > > >
                    > > > And so it goes on and on with
                    > > > more and more deception when
                    > > > ever "God" is mentioned by an
                    > > > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
                    > > > think that the Truth would be
                    > > > important to people who claim
                    > > > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
                    > > > advanced as Eckists believe they
                    > > > are!
                    > > >
                    > > > Prometheus
                    > > >
                    > > Harold and paul also claim that sugmad is beyond duality and that the
                    > > universal mind(kal) is the negative pole of creation. Yet paul also
                    > > uses the hindu name Anami Purusha as a manifestation of sugmad. I think
                    > > it means inconcievable or unknowable purusha. The name purusha is
                    > > actually a God that sometimes referes to the universe itself for the
                    > > universe is the body of purusha. purusha is also considered to be
                    > > represented as male thus I see duality in this. Prakita is the divine
                    > > mother(matter) purusha is the divine father(spirit) when the two come
                    > > together spirit enters matter(lila) thus the divine dance of creation
                    > > begins. I dont think eckists would like to know that there name purusha
                    > > came from what I consider a beautiful Hindu myth and they owe there
                    > > creation to hinduism not the other way around.
                    > >
                    >
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