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Eckankar's God is not "God"

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, FYI: When Harold Klemp or any member of the Eckankar cult mentions God it is not the same God others worship. This is a misdirection... a lie!
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
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      Hello All,
      FYI: When Harold Klemp
      or any member of the
      Eckankar cult mentions
      "God" it is not the same
      God others worship. This
      is a misdirection... a lie!

      According to Eckankar's
      Holy Book, The Shariyat-
      Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
      "Autobiography of a Modern
      Prophet" (pg.385) the God
      that all other religions
      worship is Satan, i.e. the
      Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
      of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
      etc. is a limited God and is
      on a lower plane of consciousness
      than any and all ECK Higher
      Initiates!

      Yes, EK High Initiates, according
      to Eckankar's religious dogma
      and according to their spiritual
      leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
      Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
      than the God that others (non-Eckists)
      worship and pray to!

      "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
      a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
      while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
      However, Eckankar's true God,
      SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
      higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.

      So, when Klemp or his missionaries
      use the word "God" it's not what
      they mean. They are really referring
      to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
      thinking of how stupid people are
      to think they are referring to the
      same God they believe in versus
      SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
      the foolish public might as well
      be praying to EK Higher Initiates!

      For some reason Klemp, the
      highest consciousness on earth,
      thinks that it's okay to deceive
      people with his "common language"
      excuse/approach/rationalization,
      where SUGMAD becomes "God."
      And, of course, ECKists have bought
      into this deception because they
      don't dare question the methods
      of the 14th Plane Mahanta!

      And so it goes on and on with
      more and more deception when
      ever "God" is mentioned by an
      ECKist or by Klemp. One would
      think that the Truth would be
      important to people who claim
      to be so "spiritually" evolved/
      advanced as Eckists believe they
      are!

      Prometheus
    • Tyson
      ... Harold and paul also claim that sugmad is beyond duality and that the universal mind(kal) is the negative pole of creation. Yet paul also uses the hindu
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
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        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > FYI: When Harold Klemp
        > or any member of the
        > Eckankar cult mentions
        > "God" it is not the same
        > God others worship. This
        > is a misdirection... a lie!
        >
        > According to Eckankar's
        > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
        > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
        > "Autobiography of a Modern
        > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
        > that all other religions
        > worship is Satan, i.e. the
        > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
        > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
        > etc. is a limited God and is
        > on a lower plane of consciousness
        > than any and all ECK Higher
        > Initiates!
        >
        > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
        > to Eckankar's religious dogma
        > and according to their spiritual
        > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
        > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
        > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
        > worship and pray to!
        >
        > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
        > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
        > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
        > However, Eckankar's true God,
        > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
        > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
        >
        > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
        > use the word "God" it's not what
        > they mean. They are really referring
        > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
        > thinking of how stupid people are
        > to think they are referring to the
        > same God they believe in versus
        > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
        > the foolish public might as well
        > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
        >
        > For some reason Klemp, the
        > highest consciousness on earth,
        > thinks that it's okay to deceive
        > people with his "common language"
        > excuse/approach/rationalization,
        > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
        > And, of course, ECKists have bought
        > into this deception because they
        > don't dare question the methods
        > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
        >
        > And so it goes on and on with
        > more and more deception when
        > ever "God" is mentioned by an
        > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
        > think that the Truth would be
        > important to people who claim
        > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
        > advanced as Eckists believe they
        > are!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        Harold and paul also claim that sugmad is beyond duality and that the universal mind(kal) is the negative pole of creation. Yet paul also uses the hindu name Anami Purusha as a manifestation of sugmad. I think it means inconcievable or unknowable purusha. The name purusha is actually a God that sometimes referes to the universe itself for the universe is the body of purusha. purusha is also considered to be represented as male thus I see duality in this. Prakita is the divine mother(matter) purusha is the divine father(spirit) when the two come together spirit enters matter(lila) thus the divine dance of creation begins. I dont think eckists would like to know that there name purusha came from what I consider a beautiful Hindu myth and they owe there creation to hinduism not the other way around.
      • dianastanley43
        I don t believe Darwin ever thought he was God. It was a good game and he played it well for a time. Harold in my opionion does believe he is God which is a
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
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          I don't believe Darwin ever thought he was God. It was a good game and he played it well for a time.
          Harold in my opionion does believe he is God which is a lot scarier!
          Diana

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > FYI: When Harold Klemp
          > or any member of the
          > Eckankar cult mentions
          > "God" it is not the same
          > God others worship. This
          > is a misdirection... a lie!
          >
          > According to Eckankar's
          > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
          > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
          > "Autobiography of a Modern
          > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
          > that all other religions
          > worship is Satan, i.e. the
          > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
          > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
          > etc. is a limited God and is
          > on a lower plane of consciousness
          > than any and all ECK Higher
          > Initiates!
          >
          > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
          > to Eckankar's religious dogma
          > and according to their spiritual
          > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
          > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
          > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
          > worship and pray to!
          >
          > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
          > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
          > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
          > However, Eckankar's true God,
          > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
          > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
          >
          > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
          > use the word "God" it's not what
          > they mean. They are really referring
          > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
          > thinking of how stupid people are
          > to think they are referring to the
          > same God they believe in versus
          > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
          > the foolish public might as well
          > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
          >
          > For some reason Klemp, the
          > highest consciousness on earth,
          > thinks that it's okay to deceive
          > people with his "common language"
          > excuse/approach/rationalization,
          > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
          > And, of course, ECKists have bought
          > into this deception because they
          > don't dare question the methods
          > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
          >
          > And so it goes on and on with
          > more and more deception when
          > ever "God" is mentioned by an
          > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
          > think that the Truth would be
          > important to people who claim
          > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
          > advanced as Eckists believe they
          > are!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Diana and All, I agree that Darwin didn t think he was God and unapproachable. In that aspect he was rather spiritually humble, although, he was very
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
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            Hello Diana and All,
            I agree that Darwin didn't
            think he was "God" and
            unapproachable. In that
            aspect he was rather
            spiritually humble, although,
            he was very egotistical/vain
            in other ways. Quite the
            ladies man, flashy dresser
            and big spender too! He
            saw himself as the "front man"
            for Eckankar who had to
            maintain an image so to
            speak, whereas, Klemp
            is the "cave man" and recluse
            of Eckankar. Plus, Darwin
            took advice from his Board
            of Trustees and the org
            was rather democratically
            run and operated. DG didn't
            use the "Mahanta" card to
            run roughshod over the EK
            Board. It was more a peer-
            to-peer relationship since,
            supposedly, Soul=Soul.

            However, that all changed
            with Klemp. He installed
            the RESA Hierarchy and
            the Guidelines and made
            it clear from the start that
            Eckankar was a hierarchy
            and he was the Top Dog
            who was beyond reproach.
            Therefore, the "Soul equals
            Soul" approach to spirituality,
            within Eckankar has, now,
            merely become Lip Service
            for Klemp's RESA hierarchy.

            Ever so slowly Klemp has
            chipped away at the original
            foundation of Twitchell's
            Eckankar. He has introduced
            "stories" and a conservative,
            Lutheran, King James approach
            with some New Age smatterings.

            It's quite sad how Klemp has
            made it impossible for Eckists
            to advance beyond the 7th
            initiation and claim their own
            Mastership and Spiritual Liberation.
            They are forever tied to him
            via Mahanta Codependency!

            Prometheus

            dianastanley wrote:
            I don't believe Darwin ever
            thought he was God. It was
            a good game and he played
            it well for a time.

            Harold in my opionion does
            believe he is God which is
            a lot scarier!
            Diana

            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > FYI: When Harold Klemp
            > or any member of the
            > Eckankar cult mentions
            > "God" it is not the same
            > God others worship. This
            > is a misdirection... a lie!
            >
            > According to Eckankar's
            > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
            > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
            > "Autobiography of a Modern
            > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
            > that all other religions
            > worship is Satan, i.e. the
            > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
            > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
            > etc. is a limited God and is
            > on a lower plane of consciousness
            > than any and all ECK Higher
            > Initiates!
            >
            > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
            > to Eckankar's religious dogma
            > and according to their spiritual
            > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
            > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
            > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
            > worship and pray to!
            >
            > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
            > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
            > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
            > However, Eckankar's true God,
            > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
            > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
            >
            > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
            > use the word "God" it's not what
            > they mean. They are really referring
            > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
            > thinking of how stupid people are
            > to think they are referring to the
            > same God they believe in versus
            > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
            > the foolish public might as well
            > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
            >
            > For some reason Klemp, the
            > highest consciousness on earth,
            > thinks that it's okay to deceive
            > people with his "common language"
            > excuse/approach/rationalization,
            > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
            > And, of course, ECKists have bought
            > into this deception because they
            > don't dare question the methods
            > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
            >
            > And so it goes on and on with
            > more and more deception when
            > ever "God" is mentioned by an
            > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
            > think that the Truth would be
            > important to people who claim
            > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
            > advanced as Eckists believe they
            > are!
            >
            > Prometheus
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Tyson and All, I don t even know what duality or beyond duality means when coming from scamming religionists. These people talk out of both sides of
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
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              Hello Tyson and All,
              I don't even know what
              duality or beyond duality
              means when coming from
              scamming religionists.
              These people talk out of
              both sides of their mouth.
              They say what sounds "spiritual"
              or seems "profound" or
              logical because they claim
              to be enlightened authorities.
              But, they are hypocrites
              who love to twist and turn
              words to fit their greedy,
              self-serving, ego driven,
              power mongering agendas!

              The "Divine" might not even
              care about positive and negative
              traits, atoms, agendas, sex etc.

              Let's face one fact... mankind
              created and defined "God" in
              his own (man's) image. This
              Hindu stuff is just another
              view and explanation of
              cosmology like that from the
              Quran, Old Testament or of
              the Greek and Roman Gods,
              etc.

              As far as Anami goes, PT claims
              that the Anami Lok is where
              Sugmad resides and, yet, the
              Anami Lok is the 10th Plane.

              Therefore, SUGMAD resides
              on the 10th and Klemp (the
              Mahanta) on the 14th. I guess
              that makes Klemp Higher than
              Sugmad! So, why doesn't HE,
              HK, want to be worshipped?
              I guess little Harry is a humble
              God... right? I love it when he
              has a chela mention his humility.
              Humble people never have to
              bring up that word... it's a
              given that others simply "know."
              Therfore, Klemp (by printing
              these comments about his
              "humility") isn't!

              Yes, Twitchell used Hinduism,
              Sikhism, Christianity and theosophy
              etc. to create a hodge-podge New
              Age religion just as distorted, if
              not more so, as his sources.

              There is a lot of Sikhism (and
              Sikhism has Hindu roots) via
              Ruhani Satsang and Radasoami
              and "The Path of the Masters"
              in Eckankar. This book, more
              than any other, was Twitchell's
              blueprint for creating Eckankar.

              Remember, too, Twitchell
              followed Kirpal Singh, of Ruhani
              Satsang, for ten years, and
              Kirpal had PT's Tiger's Fang
              manuscript until he returned
              it in 1966. The Rebazar character
              took the place of Kirpal after
              he and Twitchell had a falling
              out due to Paul's embellishments.
              Paul thought it'd be okay to
              portray himself with special
              spiritual powers and consciousness
              as long as Kirpal was given
              even greater powers. But,
              Kirpal didn't buy into it. He
              saw through Twitchell scam
              and knew he had ulterior motives.

              Prometheus


              Tyson wrote:
              Harold and paul also claim
              that sugmad is beyond duality
              and that the universal mind
              (kal) is the negative pole of
              creation.

              Yet paul also uses the hindu
              name Anami Purusha as a
              manifestation of sugmad.

              I think it means inconcievable
              or unknowable purusha.
              The name purusha is actually
              a God that sometimes refers
              to the universe itself for the
              universe is the body of purusha.

              purusha is also considered
              to be represented as male
              thus I see duality in this.

              Prakita is the divine mother
              (matter) purusha is the divine
              father (spirit) when the two
              come together spirit enters
              matter (lila) thus the divine
              dance of creation begins.
              I dont think eckists would
              like to know that there name
              purusha came from what
              I consider a beautiful Hindu
              myth and they owe there
              creation to hinduism not
              the other way around.


              Prometheus wrote:
              Hello All,
              > FYI: When Harold Klemp
              > or any member of the
              > Eckankar cult mentions
              > "God" it is not the same
              > God others worship. This
              > is a misdirection... a lie!
              >
              > According to Eckankar's
              > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
              > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
              > "Autobiography of a Modern
              > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
              > that all other religions
              > worship is Satan, i.e. the
              > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
              > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
              > etc. is a limited God and is
              > on a lower plane of consciousness
              > than any and all ECK Higher
              > Initiates!
              >
              > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
              > to Eckankar's religious dogma
              > and according to their spiritual
              > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
              > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
              > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
              > worship and pray to!
              >
              > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
              > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
              > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
              > However, Eckankar's true God,
              > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
              > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
              >
              > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
              > use the word "God" it's not what
              > they mean. They are really referring
              > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
              > thinking of how stupid people are
              > to think they are referring to the
              > same God they believe in versus
              > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
              > the foolish public might as well
              > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
              >
              > For some reason Klemp, the
              > highest consciousness on earth,
              > thinks that it's okay to deceive
              > people with his "common language"
              > excuse/approach/rationalization,
              > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
              > And, of course, ECKists have bought
              > into this deception because they
              > don't dare question the methods
              > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
              >
              > And so it goes on and on with
              > more and more deception when
              > ever "God" is mentioned by an
              > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
              > think that the Truth would be
              > important to people who claim
              > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
              > advanced as Eckists believe they
              > are!
              >
              > Prometheus
            • etznab@aol.com
              Anami means nameless , I believe. The Eckankar Dictionary & Lexicon mention a number of Purushas. Sat Purusha, Alakh Purusha, Alaya Purusha, Hukikat Purusha,
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
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                Anami means "nameless", I believe.

                The Eckankar Dictionary & Lexicon mention a number of Purushas. Sat
                Purusha, Alakh Purusha, Alaya Purusha, Hukikat Purusha, Agam Purusha &
                Anami Purusha (Not sure if Anami Purusha is mentioned in early Eckankar
                Dictionary.)

                Alternate spellings for Purusha include Purakh, Purakhu, Purukh and
                Purukutsa. Alternate spellings for Prakriti include Prakrta.

                Purakh appears in Guru Nanak's Mool Mantra, 1st line (I've seen it
                spelled Purukh too).

                http://www.sikhnet.com/oldsikhnet/sggs/translation/0001.html

                On one site Purakh = soul.

                http://www.heavenlygardens.org/japjie/japjip0.htm





                -----Original Message-----
                From: Tyson <abunjoroge@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:57 pm
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"

                 


                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello All,
                > FYI: When Harold Klemp
                > or any member of the
                > Eckankar cult mentions
                > "God" it is not the same
                > God others worship. This
                > is a misdirection... a lie!
                >
                > According to Eckankar's
                > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
                > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
                > "Autobiography of a Modern
                > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
                > that all other religions
                > worship is Satan, i.e. the
                > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
                > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
                > etc. is a limited God and is
                > on a lower plane of consciousness
                > than any and all ECK Higher
                > Initiates!
                >
                > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
                > to Eckankar's religious dogma
                > and according to their spiritual
                > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
                > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
                > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
                > worship and pray to!
                >
                > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
                > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
                > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
                > However, Eckankar's true God,
                > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
                > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
                >
                > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
                > use the word "God" it's not what
                > they mean. They are really referring
                > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
                > thinking of how stupid people are
                > to think they are referring to the
                > same God they believe in versus
                > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
                > the foolish public might as well
                > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
                >
                > For some reason Klemp, the
                > highest consciousness on earth,
                > thinks that it's okay to deceive
                > people with his "common language"
                > excuse/approach/rationalization,
                > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
                > And, of course, ECKists have bought
                > into this deception because they
                > don't dare question the methods
                > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
                >
                > And so it goes on and on with
                > more and more deception when
                > ever "God" is mentioned by an
                > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
                > think that the Truth would be
                > important to people who claim
                > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
                > advanced as Eckists believe they
                > are!
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                Harold and paul also claim that sugmad is beyond duality and that the
                universal mind(kal) is the negative pole of creation. Yet paul also
                uses the hindu name Anami Purusha as a manifestation of sugmad. I think
                it means inconcievable or unknowable purusha. The name purusha is
                actually a God that sometimes referes to the universe itself for the
                universe is the body of purusha. purusha is also considered to be
                represented as male thus I see duality in this. Prakita is the divine
                mother(matter) purusha is the divine father(spirit) when the two come
                together spirit enters matter(lila) thus the divine dance of creation
                begins. I dont think eckists would like to know that there name purusha
                came from what I consider a beautiful Hindu myth and they owe there
                creation to hinduism not the other way around.
              • etznab@aol.com
                This will tell the story. Page search for Anami here. http://www.mirrorh.com/potmnots.html And then here. http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html Notice how similar
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
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                  This will tell the story. Page search for Anami here.

                  http://www.mirrorh.com/potmnots.html

                  And then here.

                  http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html

                  Notice how similar are Paul Twitchell and Julian Johnson's quotes.





                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                  <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sat, Oct 1, 2011 6:13 pm
                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"

                   
                  Hello Tyson and All,
                  I don't even know what
                  duality or beyond duality
                  means when coming from
                  scamming religionists.
                  These people talk out of
                  both sides of their mouth.
                  They say what sounds "spiritual"
                  or seems "profound" or
                  logical because they claim
                  to be enlightened authorities.
                  But, they are hypocrites
                  who love to twist and turn
                  words to fit their greedy,
                  self-serving, ego driven,
                  power mongering agendas!

                  The "Divine" might not even
                  care about positive and negative
                  traits, atoms, agendas, sex etc.

                  Let's face one fact... mankind
                  created and defined "God" in
                  his own (man's) image. This
                  Hindu stuff is just another
                  view and explanation of
                  cosmology like that from the
                  Quran, Old Testament or of
                  the Greek and Roman Gods,
                  etc.

                  As far as Anami goes, PT claims
                  that the Anami Lok is where
                  Sugmad resides and, yet, the
                  Anami Lok is the 10th Plane.

                  Therefore, SUGMAD resides
                  on the 10th and Klemp (the
                  Mahanta) on the 14th. I guess
                  that makes Klemp Higher than
                  Sugmad! So, why doesn't HE,
                  HK, want to be worshipped?
                  I guess little Harry is a humble
                  God... right? I love it when he
                  has a chela mention his humility.
                  Humble people never have to
                  bring up that word... it's a
                  given that others simply "know."
                  Therfore, Klemp (by printing
                  these comments about his
                  "humility") isn't!

                  Yes, Twitchell used Hinduism,
                  Sikhism, Christianity and theosophy
                  etc. to create a hodge-podge New
                  Age religion just as distorted, if
                  not more so, as his sources.

                  There is a lot of Sikhism (and
                  Sikhism has Hindu roots) via
                  Ruhani Satsang and Radasoami
                  and "The Path of the Masters"
                  in Eckankar. This book, more
                  than any other, was Twitchell's
                  blueprint for creating Eckankar.

                  Remember, too, Twitchell
                  followed Kirpal Singh, of Ruhani
                  Satsang, for ten years, and
                  Kirpal had PT's Tiger's Fang
                  manuscript until he returned
                  it in 1966. The Rebazar character
                  took the place of Kirpal after
                  he and Twitchell had a falling
                  out due to Paul's embellishments.
                  Paul thought it'd be okay to
                  portray himself with special
                  spiritual powers and consciousness
                  as long as Kirpal was given
                  even greater powers. But,
                  Kirpal didn't buy into it. He
                  saw through Twitchell scam
                  and knew he had ulterior motives.

                  Prometheus

                  Tyson wrote:
                  Harold and paul also claim
                  that sugmad is beyond duality
                  and that the universal mind
                  (kal) is the negative pole of
                  creation.

                  Yet paul also uses the hindu
                  name Anami Purusha as a
                  manifestation of sugmad.

                  I think it means inconcievable
                  or unknowable purusha.
                  The name purusha is actually
                  a God that sometimes refers
                  to the universe itself for the
                  universe is the body of purusha.

                  purusha is also considered
                  to be represented as male
                  thus I see duality in this.

                  Prakita is the divine mother
                  (matter) purusha is the divine
                  father (spirit) when the two
                  come together spirit enters
                  matter (lila) thus the divine
                  dance of creation begins.
                  I dont think eckists would
                  like to know that there name
                  purusha came from what
                  I consider a beautiful Hindu
                  myth and they owe there
                  creation to hinduism not
                  the other way around.

                  Prometheus wrote:
                  Hello All,
                  > FYI: When Harold Klemp
                  > or any member of the
                  > Eckankar cult mentions
                  > "God" it is not the same
                  > God others worship. This
                  > is a misdirection... a lie!
                  >
                  > According to Eckankar's
                  > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
                  > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
                  > "Autobiography of a Modern
                  > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
                  > that all other religions
                  > worship is Satan, i.e. the
                  > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
                  > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
                  > etc. is a limited God and is
                  > on a lower plane of consciousness
                  > than any and all ECK Higher
                  > Initiates!
                  >
                  > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
                  > to Eckankar's religious dogma
                  > and according to their spiritual
                  > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
                  > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
                  > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
                  > worship and pray to!
                  >
                  > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
                  > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
                  > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
                  > However, Eckankar's true God,
                  > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
                  > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
                  >
                  > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
                  > use the word "God" it's not what
                  > they mean. They are really referring
                  > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
                  > thinking of how stupid people are
                  > to think they are referring to the
                  > same God they believe in versus
                  > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
                  > the foolish public might as well
                  > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
                  >
                  > For some reason Klemp, the
                  > highest consciousness on earth,
                  > thinks that it's okay to deceive
                  > people with his "common language"
                  > excuse/approach/rationalization,
                  > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
                  > And, of course, ECKists have bought
                  > into this deception because they
                  > don't dare question the methods
                  > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
                  >
                  > And so it goes on and on with
                  > more and more deception when
                  > ever "God" is mentioned by an
                  > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
                  > think that the Truth would be
                  > important to people who claim
                  > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
                  > advanced as Eckists believe they
                  > are!
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                • prometheus_973
                  Hello Etznab, No, I don t think Anami Purusha was in PT s Eckankar Dictionary. IMO, it was added, by Klemp, to his 1998 Lexicon. However, in this case, it
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 2, 2011
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                    Hello Etznab,
                    No, I don't think Anami Purusha
                    was in PT's Eckankar Dictionary.
                    IMO, it was added, by Klemp, to
                    his 1998 Lexicon.

                    However, in this case, it appears
                    that Klemp was merely tweaking
                    the EK Dogma that Twit, and/or
                    DG, had overlooked.


                    In the Shariyat Book One, Chapter
                    Five, Anami Purusha is:

                    "The first focus of action was the
                    ruler of the Anami Plane, named
                    Anami Purusha."


                    But, it seems strange that SUGMAD
                    created the Anami Lok where Anami
                    Purusha rules and, yet, the Sugmad
                    (according to Klemp) resides on
                    this same lower 10th Plane. Now,
                    why would the great SUGMAD reside
                    on the 10th Plane with Anami Purusha
                    (a lesser creation) when the Mahanta
                    (Klemp) is residing on the 14th Plane?

                    BTW- Which Plane does the Mahanta
                    Rule?

                    Anyway, here's the definition for
                    ANAMI LOK from Klemp's first ECK
                    Lexicon:

                    "That plane where SOULS are
                    reproduced by the Lord of Lords
                    reacting upon Itself; the world
                    of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad;
                    the mighty center of the universes,
                    the very heart and core of all life
                    and existence. The sound here
                    is of the whirlpool, and the word
                    is HU; the TENTH Plane; the
                    Nameless Plane."

                    Interesting that most ECKists
                    have never noticed or questioned
                    this disparity. It seems this
                    info was extracted from Hindu
                    or Sant Mat sources early on,
                    by PT, and was never tweaked
                    to fit in with his new but ever
                    changing EK dogma/scam,
                    especially, after creating the
                    14th Plane "Mahanta" in 1969.

                    Either this was overlooked or it
                    was seen as a minor issue that
                    could always have a fabricated
                    ekplanation, if need be, on down
                    the road.

                    Prometheus


                    etznab@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Anami means "nameless", I believe.
                    >
                    > The Eckankar Dictionary & Lexicon mention a number of Purushas. Sat
                    > Purusha, Alakh Purusha, Alaya Purusha, Hukikat Purusha, Agam Purusha &
                    > Anami Purusha (Not sure if Anami Purusha is mentioned in early Eckankar
                    > Dictionary.)
                    >
                    > Alternate spellings for Purusha include Purakh, Purakhu, Purukh and
                    > Purukutsa. Alternate spellings for Prakriti include Prakrta.
                    >
                    > Purakh appears in Guru Nanak's Mool Mantra, 1st line (I've seen it
                    > spelled Purukh too).
                    >
                    > http://www.sikhnet.com/oldsikhnet/sggs/translation/0001.html
                    >
                    > On one site Purakh = soul.
                    >
                    > http://www.heavenlygardens.org/japjie/japjip0.htm
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Tyson <abunjoroge@...>
                    > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                    > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:57 pm
                    > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                    > prometheus_973@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello All,
                    > > FYI: When Harold Klemp
                    > > or any member of the
                    > > Eckankar cult mentions
                    > > "God" it is not the same
                    > > God others worship. This
                    > > is a misdirection... a lie!
                    > >
                    > > According to Eckankar's
                    > > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
                    > > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
                    > > "Autobiography of a Modern
                    > > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
                    > > that all other religions
                    > > worship is Satan, i.e. the
                    > > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
                    > > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
                    > > etc. is a limited God and is
                    > > on a lower plane of consciousness
                    > > than any and all ECK Higher
                    > > Initiates!
                    > >
                    > > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
                    > > to Eckankar's religious dogma
                    > > and according to their spiritual
                    > > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
                    > > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
                    > > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
                    > > worship and pray to!
                    > >
                    > > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
                    > > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
                    > > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
                    > > However, Eckankar's true God,
                    > > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
                    > > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
                    > >
                    > > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
                    > > use the word "God" it's not what
                    > > they mean. They are really referring
                    > > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
                    > > thinking of how stupid people are
                    > > to think they are referring to the
                    > > same God they believe in versus
                    > > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
                    > > the foolish public might as well
                    > > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
                    > >
                    > > For some reason Klemp, the
                    > > highest consciousness on earth,
                    > > thinks that it's okay to deceive
                    > > people with his "common language"
                    > > excuse/approach/rationalization,
                    > > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
                    > > And, of course, ECKists have bought
                    > > into this deception because they
                    > > don't dare question the methods
                    > > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
                    > >
                    > > And so it goes on and on with
                    > > more and more deception when
                    > > ever "God" is mentioned by an
                    > > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
                    > > think that the Truth would be
                    > > important to people who claim
                    > > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
                    > > advanced as Eckists believe they
                    > > are!
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > Harold and paul also claim that sugmad is beyond duality and that the
                    > universal mind(kal) is the negative pole of creation. Yet paul also
                    > uses the hindu name Anami Purusha as a manifestation of sugmad. I think
                    > it means inconcievable or unknowable purusha. The name purusha is
                    > actually a God that sometimes referes to the universe itself for the
                    > universe is the body of purusha. purusha is also considered to be
                    > represented as male thus I see duality in this. Prakita is the divine
                    > mother(matter) purusha is the divine father(spirit) when the two come
                    > together spirit enters matter(lila) thus the divine dance of creation
                    > begins. I dont think eckists would like to know that there name purusha
                    > came from what I consider a beautiful Hindu myth and they owe there
                    > creation to hinduism not the other way around.
                    >
                  • etznab18
                    Just now reading this message as my Yahoo account (the e-mail from Yahoo groups) has bounced for the um-teenth time this year. When this happens I have to
                    Message 9 of 9 , Oct 4, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Just now reading this message as my Yahoo account (the e-mail from Yahoo groups) has bounced for the um-teenth time this year. When this happens I have to first unbounce the account and then have to search each Yahoo group to see which messages I missed.

                      Thanks for posting the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad quote.

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Etznab,
                      > No, I don't think Anami Purusha
                      > was in PT's Eckankar Dictionary.
                      > IMO, it was added, by Klemp, to
                      > his 1998 Lexicon.
                      >
                      > However, in this case, it appears
                      > that Klemp was merely tweaking
                      > the EK Dogma that Twit, and/or
                      > DG, had overlooked.
                      >
                      >
                      > In the Shariyat Book One, Chapter
                      > Five, Anami Purusha is:
                      >
                      > "The first focus of action was the
                      > ruler of the Anami Plane, named
                      > Anami Purusha."
                      >
                      >
                      > But, it seems strange that SUGMAD
                      > created the Anami Lok where Anami
                      > Purusha rules and, yet, the Sugmad
                      > (according to Klemp) resides on
                      > this same lower 10th Plane. Now,
                      > why would the great SUGMAD reside
                      > on the 10th Plane with Anami Purusha
                      > (a lesser creation) when the Mahanta
                      > (Klemp) is residing on the 14th Plane?
                      >
                      > BTW- Which Plane does the Mahanta
                      > Rule?
                      >
                      > Anyway, here's the definition for
                      > ANAMI LOK from Klemp's first ECK
                      > Lexicon:
                      >
                      > "That plane where SOULS are
                      > reproduced by the Lord of Lords
                      > reacting upon Itself; the world
                      > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad;
                      > the mighty center of the universes,
                      > the very heart and core of all life
                      > and existence. The sound here
                      > is of the whirlpool, and the word
                      > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the
                      > Nameless Plane."
                      >
                      > Interesting that most ECKists
                      > have never noticed or questioned
                      > this disparity. It seems this
                      > info was extracted from Hindu
                      > or Sant Mat sources early on,
                      > by PT, and was never tweaked
                      > to fit in with his new but ever
                      > changing EK dogma/scam,
                      > especially, after creating the
                      > 14th Plane "Mahanta" in 1969.
                      >
                      > Either this was overlooked or it
                      > was seen as a minor issue that
                      > could always have a fabricated
                      > ekplanation, if need be, on down
                      > the road.
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                      >
                      > etznab@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Anami means "nameless", I believe.
                      > >
                      > > The Eckankar Dictionary & Lexicon mention a number of Purushas. Sat
                      > > Purusha, Alakh Purusha, Alaya Purusha, Hukikat Purusha, Agam Purusha &
                      > > Anami Purusha (Not sure if Anami Purusha is mentioned in early Eckankar
                      > > Dictionary.)
                      > >
                      > > Alternate spellings for Purusha include Purakh, Purakhu, Purukh and
                      > > Purukutsa. Alternate spellings for Prakriti include Prakrta.
                      > >
                      > > Purakh appears in Guru Nanak's Mool Mantra, 1st line (I've seen it
                      > > spelled Purukh too).
                      > >
                      > > http://www.sikhnet.com/oldsikhnet/sggs/translation/0001.html
                      > >
                      > > On one site Purakh = soul.
                      > >
                      > > http://www.heavenlygardens.org/japjie/japjip0.htm
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: Tyson <abunjoroge@>
                      > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                      > > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:57 pm
                      > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"
                      > >
                      > >  
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                      > > prometheus_973@ wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hello All,
                      > > > FYI: When Harold Klemp
                      > > > or any member of the
                      > > > Eckankar cult mentions
                      > > > "God" it is not the same
                      > > > God others worship. This
                      > > > is a misdirection... a lie!
                      > > >
                      > > > According to Eckankar's
                      > > > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
                      > > > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
                      > > > "Autobiography of a Modern
                      > > > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
                      > > > that all other religions
                      > > > worship is Satan, i.e. the
                      > > > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
                      > > > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
                      > > > etc. is a limited God and is
                      > > > on a lower plane of consciousness
                      > > > than any and all ECK Higher
                      > > > Initiates!
                      > > >
                      > > > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
                      > > > to Eckankar's religious dogma
                      > > > and according to their spiritual
                      > > > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
                      > > > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
                      > > > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
                      > > > worship and pray to!
                      > > >
                      > > > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
                      > > > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
                      > > > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
                      > > > However, Eckankar's true God,
                      > > > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
                      > > > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
                      > > >
                      > > > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
                      > > > use the word "God" it's not what
                      > > > they mean. They are really referring
                      > > > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
                      > > > thinking of how stupid people are
                      > > > to think they are referring to the
                      > > > same God they believe in versus
                      > > > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
                      > > > the foolish public might as well
                      > > > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
                      > > >
                      > > > For some reason Klemp, the
                      > > > highest consciousness on earth,
                      > > > thinks that it's okay to deceive
                      > > > people with his "common language"
                      > > > excuse/approach/rationalization,
                      > > > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
                      > > > And, of course, ECKists have bought
                      > > > into this deception because they
                      > > > don't dare question the methods
                      > > > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
                      > > >
                      > > > And so it goes on and on with
                      > > > more and more deception when
                      > > > ever "God" is mentioned by an
                      > > > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
                      > > > think that the Truth would be
                      > > > important to people who claim
                      > > > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
                      > > > advanced as Eckists believe they
                      > > > are!
                      > > >
                      > > > Prometheus
                      > > >
                      > > Harold and paul also claim that sugmad is beyond duality and that the
                      > > universal mind(kal) is the negative pole of creation. Yet paul also
                      > > uses the hindu name Anami Purusha as a manifestation of sugmad. I think
                      > > it means inconcievable or unknowable purusha. The name purusha is
                      > > actually a God that sometimes referes to the universe itself for the
                      > > universe is the body of purusha. purusha is also considered to be
                      > > represented as male thus I see duality in this. Prakita is the divine
                      > > mother(matter) purusha is the divine father(spirit) when the two come
                      > > together spirit enters matter(lila) thus the divine dance of creation
                      > > begins. I dont think eckists would like to know that there name purusha
                      > > came from what I consider a beautiful Hindu myth and they owe there
                      > > creation to hinduism not the other way around.
                      > >
                      >
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