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Re: a grain of truth

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  • dianastanley43
    I m afraid my quantum phyisics is showing.Instead of atom you could say unit of counciousness. I see counciousness as something all things exist in not that
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 27, 2011
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      I'm afraid my quantum phyisics is showing.Instead of atom you could say unit of counciousness. I see counciousness as something all things exist in not that it exists in us although it seems like it as we are used to feeling sepperate from all other things.
      I believe God,so to speak,can only beaware of itself in it's creations. So in a way we are the body and mind of IT. I didn't put it very well but when you talk on this level it is hard to find the right words. Why this happened I have no idea.
      Diana

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Diana,
      > interesting and thought provoking!
      > I see it somewhat semantically
      > different (I think).
      >
      > Maybe it's that all consciousness
      > Is divided into individual states/
      > units/Souls. But I also see that
      > all "units" are unified and share
      > the (non-religious) Divine essence
      > of Being. I don't really see the
      > "atom" correlation as much since
      > human thoughts are extremely
      > powerful while not containing
      > atoms, although, thoughts can
      > control and manipulate atoms
      > in/of the physical universe.
      >
      > I don't see that consciousness
      > is comprised of atoms, either,
      > since thoughts are not comprised
      > of atoms, although, the atoms
      > that comprise our bodies and
      > minds create thoughts (dreams)
      > and individual consciousness.
      > Brain chemistry and its pathways
      > are important, as well, so sometimes
      > it's the arrangement of various
      > atoms and their interactions
      > with/to one another.
      >
      > I will say that it appears that
      > there are almost infinite degrees
      > and combinations for these atoms
      > to be arranged and to function
      > at any given point in time. Thus,
      > "Truth" becomes more a social/
      > religious/scientific term and
      > theory is merely a degree of
      > faith via observation.
      >
      > As far as consciousness remaining
      > after the individual dies... I don't
      > know. Where is it? What impact does
      > it have, and on whom or what? Who
      > says it does remain and how do they
      > know? It sounds like a nice thought
      > and a reassuring pov, but....? Then,
      > again, there's the "Soul" view which
      > is very similar.
      >
      > The one thing that I've observed and
      > experienced is that there are individual
      > (Soul) patterns, choices, and fate, as
      > well as, "nudges" and quiet "whispers"
      > that we all experience during our lives.
      > IMO, people are merely the human/individual
      > and physical expressions of the Divine
      > Consciousness while Soul/Spirit is the
      > conduit and observer within. However,
      > many are unaware of or reject this, and
      > similar philosophies, and choose to follow
      > ego and/or religion.
      >
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      > dianastanley wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi everyone. I have come to the understanding for my self, that counciousness is not divided into individual souls. It is one and when a form is available it manifestest as it needs a vehicle in which to know it self. Someone said counciousness is like a whale looking at its own tail. we are the tail. Because we are in seppret forms counsessness itdendifies with the individual form and comes to believe it is seperat from all other forms. We are tought that as children. We have a name and a body that is male or female. we are different from everyone else.
      >
      > > Every living form from flowers to people have an atom of counciousness in it.
      > > when the body dies counciousness returns to itself.
      > > of course that may be all bullsh-t but right now I believe it!
      > > Diana
      >
      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello Tyson,
      > > > Welcome to the site. I'd like
      > > > to respond to your comments.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Tyson wrote:
      > > >
      > > > "Eckankars grain of truth is that we are soul and we are eternal thus we always
      > > > manifest somewhere in gods kingdom. IT IS AN ILLUSION OT THIS WORLD THAT WE ARE
      > > > NOT ALREADY IN THE PRESENSE OF GOD. Paul had some spiritual experiences
      > > > unfortunately he was unwilling to work a regular job, or be a mediocre fiction
      > > > writer, or just another spiritual writer. Thus the big lie of mahanta
      > > > consciousness."
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ME: IMO all religions are false teachings.
      > > > One can only come to "Know" about Soul,
      > > > ETC. from personal and private experiences
      > > > during a lifetime. Tick tock, tick tock... time
      > > > is running out for Eckists to see beyond the
      > > > false teachings of Twitchell and Klemp. We
      > > > are both dual as Soul and as persons and,
      > > > yet, we are one with one another via the
      > > > Divine essence/creative/destructive force.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > "There are spiritual travelers (masters, Jesus, Siddharta, Krishna ect..) paul
      > > > was not one of them. He had some cool out of the body experiences and a con mans
      > > > mind.Teachers or masters are there only to help awaken in us what we already
      > > > know but have forgotten. I myself practice Sahaji which is learning to open the
      > > > spiritual eye so one can see and hear the music of the celestial sound current.
      > > > To have an experience with this is a blessing. Paul in his own self seeking
      > > > vanity, used something beautiful and sacred for his own selfish means. Sat nam
      > > > means truth. Regardless of the fact that harold teaches love, he hides from the
      > > > truth also for selfish means. In this world I have come to believe that
      > > > selfishness is the first sin. Ek Ong Kar was never meant to be a religion only
      > > > ameans to awaken to spirit, never meant for profit. The nine silent ones do
      > > > exist yet another grain ot truth in pauls fiction."
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ME: Those mentioned above were
      > > > "extroverted" masters. However,
      > > > IMO, there are many more who are
      > > > "introverted" masters and many of
      > > > those live "now" and are/were not
      > > > of the ancient past. Today, most
      > > > extroverts have demonic, self-centered
      > > > (and more negative versus positive)
      > > > tendencies/characteristics. It's become
      > > > a bipolar narcissistic world.
      > > >
      > > > BTW- The Spiritual Eye or Tisra Til
      > > > is merely the 6th Astral Chakra. The
      > > > 7th or Crown Chakra is easier to use
      > > > in order to leave the body through
      > > > the top of the head.
      > > >
      > > > Also, The Path of the Masters gives
      > > > another name for God other than
      > > > Ek Ong Kar... it's Ekankar. Paul added
      > > > the "c."
      > > >
      > > > And, I don't believe in any Nine Silent
      > > > Ones nor anything coming from Sant
      > > > Mat. It's all bullshit. One cannot share
      > > > their truth as a religion. One can take
      > > > and use some of what another has
      > > > learned via their own revelations into
      > > > the Divine in order to prime one's own
      > > > pump, so to speak, but after that it's
      > > > up to You directing You.
      > > >
      > > > We all need to become our own spiritual
      > > > leader/teacher and take responsibility
      > > > instead of following others. I'll admit
      > > > that Jesus did have some very good
      > > > lessons to teach. Unfortunately, those
      > > > who lead us today, religious/political,
      > > > cannot hold a candle to those teachings.
      > > > They all give lip service to those lessons
      > > > of love, empathy, tolerance, forgiveness,
      > > > and compassion. Look at Klemp! Did he
      > > > forgive Darwin? No! HK's never even mentioned
      > > > Darwin's death! Yet, Darwin gave Harold
      > > > almost all of his initiations including the
      > > > 12th! People, like Klemp, are hypocrites
      > > > who say one thing and and do another.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • etznab@aol.com
      I believe God, so to speak, can only be aware of itself in it s creations. That was very profound Diane. I thought your other message was, too. ... From:
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 27, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        "I believe God, so to speak, can only be aware of itself in it's
        creations."

        That was very profound Diane. I thought your other message was, too.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: dianastanley43 <dianastanley43@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
        <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tue, Sep 27, 2011 12:29 pm
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: a grain of truth

         
        I'm afraid my quantum phyisics is showing.Instead of atom you could say
        unit of counciousness. I see counciousness as something all things
        exist in not that it exists in us although it seems like it as we are
        used to feeling sepperate from all other things.
        I believe God,so to speak,can only beaware of itself in it's creations.
        So in a way we are the body and mind of IT. I didn't put it very well
        but when you talk on this level it is hard to find the right words. Why
        this happened I have no idea.
        Diana

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Diana,
        > interesting and thought provoking!
        > I see it somewhat semantically
        > different (I think).
        >
        > Maybe it's that all consciousness
        > Is divided into individual states/
        > units/Souls. But I also see that
        > all "units" are unified and share
        > the (non-religious) Divine essence
        > of Being. I don't really see the
        > "atom" correlation as much since
        > human thoughts are extremely
        > powerful while not containing
        > atoms, although, thoughts can
        > control and manipulate atoms
        > in/of the physical universe.
        >
        > I don't see that consciousness
        > is comprised of atoms, either,
        > since thoughts are not comprised
        > of atoms, although, the atoms
        > that comprise our bodies and
        > minds create thoughts (dreams)
        > and individual consciousness.
        > Brain chemistry and its pathways
        > are important, as well, so sometimes
        > it's the arrangement of various
        > atoms and their interactions
        > with/to one another.
        >
        > I will say that it appears that
        > there are almost infinite degrees
        > and combinations for these atoms
        > to be arranged and to function
        > at any given point in time. Thus,
        > "Truth" becomes more a social/
        > religious/scientific term and
        > theory is merely a degree of
        > faith via observation.
        >
        > As far as consciousness remaining
        > after the individual dies... I don't
        > know. Where is it? What impact does
        > it have, and on whom or what? Who
        > says it does remain and how do they
        > know? It sounds like a nice thought
        > and a reassuring pov, but....? Then,
        > again, there's the "Soul" view which
        > is very similar.
        >
        > The one thing that I've observed and
        > experienced is that there are individual
        > (Soul) patterns, choices, and fate, as
        > well as, "nudges" and quiet "whispers"
        > that we all experience during our lives.
        > IMO, people are merely the human/individual
        > and physical expressions of the Divine
        > Consciousness while Soul/Spirit is the
        > conduit and observer within. However,
        > many are unaware of or reject this, and
        > similar philosophies, and choose to follow
        > ego and/or religion.
        >
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        >
        > dianastanley wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi everyone. I have come to the understanding for my self,
        that counciousness is not divided into individual souls. It is one and
        when a form is available it manifestest as it needs a vehicle in which
        to know it self. Someone said counciousness is like a whale looking at
        its own tail. we are the tail. Because we are in seppret forms
        counsessness itdendifies with the individual form and comes to believe
        it is seperat from all other forms. We are tought that as children. We
        have a name and a body that is male or female. we are different from
        everyone else.
        >
        > > Every living form from flowers to people have an atom of
        counciousness in it.
        > > when the body dies counciousness returns to itself.
        > > of course that may be all bullsh-t but right now I believe it!
        > > Diana
        >
        > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
        "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello Tyson,
        > > > Welcome to the site. I'd like
        > > > to respond to your comments.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Tyson wrote:
        > > >
        > > > "Eckankars grain of truth is that we are soul and we are
        eternal thus we always
        > > > manifest somewhere in gods kingdom. IT IS AN ILLUSION OT
        THIS WORLD THAT WE ARE
        > > > NOT ALREADY IN THE PRESENSE OF GOD. Paul had some
        spiritual experiences
        > > > unfortunately he was unwilling to work a regular job, or
        be a mediocre fiction
        > > > writer, or just another spiritual writer. Thus the big
        lie of mahanta
        > > > consciousness."
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ME: IMO all religions are false teachings.
        > > > One can only come to "Know" about Soul,
        > > > ETC. from personal and private experiences
        > > > during a lifetime. Tick tock, tick tock... time
        > > > is running out for Eckists to see beyond the
        > > > false teachings of Twitchell and Klemp. We
        > > > are both dual as Soul and as persons and,
        > > > yet, we are one with one another via the
        > > > Divine essence/creative/destructive force.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > "There are spiritual travelers (masters, Jesus,
        Siddharta, Krishna ect..) paul
        > > > was not one of them. He had some cool out of the body
        experiences and a con mans
        > > > mind.Teachers or masters are there only to help awaken
        in us what we already
        > > > know but have forgotten. I myself practice Sahaji which
        is learning to open the
        > > > spiritual eye so one can see and hear the music of the
        celestial sound current.
        > > > To have an experience with this is a blessing. Paul in
        his own self seeking
        > > > vanity, used something beautiful and sacred for his own
        selfish means. Sat nam
        > > > means truth. Regardless of the fact that harold teaches
        love, he hides from the
        > > > truth also for selfish means. In this world I have come
        to believe that
        > > > selfishness is the first sin. Ek Ong Kar was never meant
        to be a religion only
        > > > ameans to awaken to spirit, never meant for profit. The
        nine silent ones do
        > > > exist yet another grain ot truth in pauls fiction."
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ME: Those mentioned above were
        > > > "extroverted" masters. However,
        > > > IMO, there are many more who are
        > > > "introverted" masters and many of
        > > > those live "now" and are/were not
        > > > of the ancient past. Today, most
        > > > extroverts have demonic, self-centered
        > > > (and more negative versus positive)
        > > > tendencies/characteristics. It's become
        > > > a bipolar narcissistic world.
        > > >
        > > > BTW- The Spiritual Eye or Tisra Til
        > > > is merely the 6th Astral Chakra. The
        > > > 7th or Crown Chakra is easier to use
        > > > in order to leave the body through
        > > > the top of the head.
        > > >
        > > > Also, The Path of the Masters gives
        > > > another name for God other than
        > > > Ek Ong Kar... it's Ekankar. Paul added
        > > > the "c."
        > > >
        > > > And, I don't believe in any Nine Silent
        > > > Ones nor anything coming from Sant
        > > > Mat. It's all bullshit. One cannot share
        > > > their truth as a religion. One can take
        > > > and use some of what another has
        > > > learned via their own revelations into
        > > > the Divine in order to prime one's own
        > > > pump, so to speak, but after that it's
        > > > up to You directing You.
        > > >
        > > > We all need to become our own spiritual
        > > > leader/teacher and take responsibility
        > > > instead of following others. I'll admit
        > > > that Jesus did have some very good
        > > > lessons to teach. Unfortunately, those
        > > > who lead us today, religious/political,
        > > > cannot hold a candle to those teachings.
        > > > They all give lip service to those lessons
        > > > of love, empathy, tolerance, forgiveness,
        > > > and compassion. Look at Klemp! Did he
        > > > forgive Darwin? No! HK's never even mentioned
        > > > Darwin's death! Yet, Darwin gave Harold
        > > > almost all of his initiations including the
        > > > 12th! People, like Klemp, are hypocrites
        > > > who say one thing and and do another.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Prometheus
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Diana and All, I try to steer away from any mention of Quantum Physics or Quantum Mechanics because I don t understand it and because too many scammers
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 28, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Diana and All,
          I try to steer away from
          any mention of "Quantum
          Physics or Quantum Mechanics"
          because I don't understand
          it and because too many
          scammers use these terms
          as catch words.

          Way back, after the Beatles
          and before Eckankar, I was
          a TMer and followed Maharishi.
          He only had a Bachelors degree
          in Physics (I was told), but spoke
          as an expert on Quantum Mechanics
          in relation to Transcendental
          Meditation (TM) and Unity Consciousness.

          Another scammer (from Canada)
          who claims to use Quantum Physics,
          in healing, is Adam Dreamhealer.
          I'm surprised Klemp hasn't used
          this approach to spirituality.

          Yes, it would be logical that what
          we call "God" (by various names)
          would be conscious of Itself. The
          question is more along the line
          of, How much (if any) of this GOD
          Consciousness can we experience?
          I guess that, too, depends upon
          us and each personal, conscious,
          and subconscious definition of
          who or what God is, as well as,
          numerous other subjective factors.

          We could say, and assume,
          that God is all consciousness
          and that this consciousness
          holds the physical universe(s)
          together while influencing
          other matter and non-matter.

          Could the universe be on auto
          pilot? Or, are there other factors?
          Maybe not!


          But, if God is everything, then,
          It is part of us and we are part
          of It. However, to what degree
          is our consciousness in proportion
          to God's consciousness? Does
          our intellect factor into this equation?
          To what degree are we able to
          visualize, imagine, dream, or
          delude ourselves? Why do we
          worship and follow others when
          what they (supposedly) say/said
          and do/did was their own individual
          glimpse (or not) into the God
          Consciousness?

          A true teacher shows one "how"
          to think, Not "what" to think!

          Anyway, it's an interesting
          topic and is difficult to approach
          without sounding like I'm parroting
          someone or something else as
          the Eckists and other religionists
          do. Critical thinking seems to be
          a mind function that religionists
          have relinquished over blind faith.

          Prometheus




          dianastanley wrote:
          I'm afraid my quantum phyisics
          is showing. Instead of atom you
          could say unit of counciousness.
          I see counciousness as something
          all things exist in not that it exists
          in us although it seems like it as
          we are used to feeling sepperate
          from all other things.

          I believe God, so to speak, can
          only beaware of itself in it's creations.
          So in a way we are the body and
          mind of IT. I didn't put it very well
          but when you talk on this level it
          is hard to find the right words.
          Why this happened I have no
          idea.

          Diana

          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello Diana,
          > interesting and thought provoking!
          > I see it somewhat semantically
          > different (I think).
          >
          > Maybe it's that all consciousness
          > Is divided into individual states/
          > units/Souls. But I also see that
          > all "units" are unified and share
          > the (non-religious) Divine essence
          > of Being. I don't really see the
          > "atom" correlation as much since
          > human thoughts are extremely
          > powerful while not containing
          > atoms, although, thoughts can
          > control and manipulate atoms
          > in/of the physical universe.
          >
          > I don't see that consciousness
          > is comprised of atoms, either,
          > since thoughts are not comprised
          > of atoms, although, the atoms
          > that comprise our bodies and
          > minds create thoughts (dreams)
          > and individual consciousness.
          > Brain chemistry and its pathways
          > are important, as well, so sometimes
          > it's the arrangement of various
          > atoms and their interactions
          > with/to one another.
          >
          > I will say that it appears that
          > there are almost infinite degrees
          > and combinations for these atoms
          > to be arranged and to function
          > at any given point in time. Thus,
          > "Truth" becomes more a social/
          > religious/scientific term and
          > theory is merely a degree of
          > faith via observation.
          >
          > As far as consciousness remaining
          > after the individual dies... I don't
          > know. Where is it? What impact does
          > it have, and on whom or what? Who
          > says it does remain and how do they
          > know? It sounds like a nice thought
          > and a reassuring pov, but....? Then,
          > again, there's the "Soul" view which
          > is very similar.
          >
          > The one thing that I've observed and
          > experienced is that there are individual
          > (Soul) patterns, choices, and fate, as
          > well as, "nudges" and quiet "whispers"
          > that we all experience during our lives.
          > IMO, people are merely the human/individual
          > and physical expressions of the Divine
          > Consciousness while Soul/Spirit is the
          > conduit and observer within. However,
          > many are unaware of or reject this, and
          > similar philosophies, and choose to follow
          > ego and/or religion.
          >
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          >
          > dianastanley wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi everyone. I have come to the understanding for my self, that
          counciousness is not divided into individual souls. It is one and when a form is
          available it manifestest as it needs a vehicle in which to know it self. Someone
          said counciousness is like a whale looking at its own tail. we are the tail.
          Because we are in seppret forms counsessness itdendifies with the individual
          form and comes to believe it is seperat from all other forms. We are tought that
          as children. We have a name and a body that is male or female. we are different
          from everyone else.
          >
          > > Every living form from flowers to people have an atom of counciousness in
          it.
          > > when the body dies counciousness returns to itself.
          > > of course that may be all bullsh-t but right now I believe it!
          > > Diana
          >
          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hello Tyson,
          > > > Welcome to the site. I'd like
          > > > to respond to your comments.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Tyson wrote:
          > > >
          > > > "Eckankars grain of truth is that we are soul and we are eternal thus we
          always
          > > > manifest somewhere in gods kingdom. IT IS AN ILLUSION OT THIS WORLD THAT
          WE ARE
          > > > NOT ALREADY IN THE PRESENSE OF GOD. Paul had some spiritual experiences
          > > > unfortunately he was unwilling to work a regular job, or be a mediocre
          fiction
          > > > writer, or just another spiritual writer. Thus the big lie of mahanta
          > > > consciousness."
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ME: IMO all religions are false teachings.
          > > > One can only come to "Know" about Soul,
          > > > ETC. from personal and private experiences
          > > > during a lifetime. Tick tock, tick tock... time
          > > > is running out for Eckists to see beyond the
          > > > false teachings of Twitchell and Klemp. We
          > > > are both dual as Soul and as persons and,
          > > > yet, we are one with one another via the
          > > > Divine essence/creative/destructive force.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > "There are spiritual travelers (masters, Jesus, Siddharta, Krishna ect..)
          paul
          > > > was not one of them. He had some cool out of the body experiences and a
          con mans
          > > > mind.Teachers or masters are there only to help awaken in us what we
          already
          > > > know but have forgotten. I myself practice Sahaji which is learning to
          open the
          > > > spiritual eye so one can see and hear the music of the celestial sound
          current.
          > > > To have an experience with this is a blessing. Paul in his own self
          seeking
          > > > vanity, used something beautiful and sacred for his own selfish means. Sat
          nam
          > > > means truth. Regardless of the fact that harold teaches love, he hides
          from the
          > > > truth also for selfish means. In this world I have come to believe that
          > > > selfishness is the first sin. Ek Ong Kar was never meant to be a religion
          only
          > > > ameans to awaken to spirit, never meant for profit. The nine silent ones
          do
          > > > exist yet another grain ot truth in pauls fiction."
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ME: Those mentioned above were
          > > > "extroverted" masters. However,
          > > > IMO, there are many more who are
          > > > "introverted" masters and many of
          > > > those live "now" and are/were not
          > > > of the ancient past. Today, most
          > > > extroverts have demonic, self-centered
          > > > (and more negative versus positive)
          > > > tendencies/characteristics. It's become
          > > > a bipolar narcissistic world.
          > > >
          > > > BTW- The Spiritual Eye or Tisra Til
          > > > is merely the 6th Astral Chakra. The
          > > > 7th or Crown Chakra is easier to use
          > > > in order to leave the body through
          > > > the top of the head.
          > > >
          > > > Also, The Path of the Masters gives
          > > > another name for God other than
          > > > Ek Ong Kar... it's Ekankar. Paul added
          > > > the "c."
          > > >
          > > > And, I don't believe in any Nine Silent
          > > > Ones nor anything coming from Sant
          > > > Mat. It's all bullshit. One cannot share
          > > > their truth as a religion. One can take
          > > > and use some of what another has
          > > > learned via their own revelations into
          > > > the Divine in order to prime one's own
          > > > pump, so to speak, but after that it's
          > > > up to You directing You.
          > > >
          > > > We all need to become our own spiritual
          > > > leader/teacher and take responsibility
          > > > instead of following others. I'll admit
          > > > that Jesus did have some very good
          > > > lessons to teach. Unfortunately, those
          > > > who lead us today, religious/political,
          > > > cannot hold a candle to those teachings.
          > > > They all give lip service to those lessons
          > > > of love, empathy, tolerance, forgiveness,
          > > > and compassion. Look at Klemp! Did he
          > > > forgive Darwin? No! HK's never even mentioned
          > > > Darwin's death! Yet, Darwin gave Harold
          > > > almost all of his initiations including the
          > > > 12th! People, like Klemp, are hypocrites
          > > > who say one thing and and do another.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Prometheus
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