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Re: "The Dark Side of ECKankar" - And More!

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Postekcon and All, Yes, it was always a conundrum trying to recruit new members via spreading the word i.e. manure. However, we had structured public
    Message 1 of 24 , Sep 14, 2011
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      Hello Postekcon and All,
      Yes, it was always a conundrum
      trying to recruit new members
      via "spreading the word" i.e.
      manure. However, we had
      structured public workshops
      and/or book discussions with
      Guidelines spelling out what
      to do and how to do it.

      Some RESA areas did experimental
      programs (special projects),
      and if successful, the ESC
      tweaked them to be used
      elsewhere. It was all quite
      time consuming and frustrating.
      Local areas and the H.I.s were
      always judged on the numbers
      of newbies showing up for
      these events. Most people
      were repeats and were into
      metaphysics or were the friends,
      coworkers or relatives of Eckists.

      I recall that one local area
      of a neighboring state was
      having a lot of success via
      large turnouts of newbies.
      They probably had a couple
      of hundred newbies in one
      year and that was practically
      unheard of in Eckankar. Several
      of these H.I.s were very proud
      of the "high counts" they turned
      in to the ESC. However, out
      of all of those newbies only
      about ten joined Eckankar
      and only, maybe, one or two
      remained after a year. These,
      I doubt, remained for the
      long haul. Let's face it, it's
      a dead end religion where
      one pretends, i.e. imagines
      or visualizes, their desires
      for "spiritual" progress and
      "knowingness" or "realization"
      of varying degrees. The initiation
      game is the main, underlying,
      theme. The problem, for Eckists,
      is that dangling carrot when
      initiations have been "slowed-
      down" for 25 years and the
      highest most can go is the 7th!

      Those 7th initiates who had
      hit the glass ceiling 20 or more
      years ago have rationalized
      it all away. They only stay in
      EK because they have some
      prestige, a lot of Eck friends,
      and have paid their dues with
      a lot of vahana and satsang
      work over the years. Plus, they've
      been taught to "imagine" and
      visualize, therefore, all they
      need to do is pretend they are
      8ths (on the inner). Most pretend
      they are higher than 8ths. After
      all, Darwin skipped or sped up
      initiations even for Klemp. So,
      if it was valid, then, why not
      today? Actually, just about all
      Eckists pretent they are "higher"
      than the number printed on
      their Membership Cards.

      Anyway, the reason why
      the EK Youth effort has
      gained some momentum
      over the years is because
      it's easier to brainwash a
      controlled subject. However,
      that doesn't always work,
      either, when these young
      Eckists see their parents
      act so nutty and non-Eck
      like. Plus, reclusive Klemp
      puts a lot of pressure upon
      them to do the vahana/
      missionary thing when
      it's tough enough getting
      through school and those
      teen years. Klemp doesn't
      have any empathy. He was
      in a Lutheran all boys high
      school and never learned
      about dating until he got
      out of the Air Force (1968)
      when he was 26 years old!

      One has to wonder why
      Klemp doesn't do his fair
      share of public vahana work.
      Why doesn't he have a radio
      show or do and say something
      in real time? The EK Seminars
      don't count. That's for maybe
      a hundred newbies who aren't
      all that "new" and for his brain-
      washed followers.

      In theory, Klemp's real "spiritual"
      mission is to help his followers
      achieve God Realization. However,
      what Initiation level is the indicator
      that this has been accomplished?

      According to Book 2, CH. 12 of
      the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad (Eckankar's
      Holy Book) their God, Sugmad,
      resides on the 10th Plane, however,
      Eckists must have the 11th Initiation
      for "entrance into the Sugmad world,
      which is the highest world of God,
      if any, may enter."

      Of course, that's not quite true either
      since there're the 12th, 13th, and 14th
      initiations after this one. This, then,
      is where one (supposedly) enters into
      Soul's true home called The Ocean of
      love and Mercy. However, one can see
      why EK Higher initiates (5-7) become
      internally frustrated since, except for
      a handful of people, they will never
      even see the 8th initiation (in this
      lifetime). That's the Catch/Con that
      Twitchell invented and Klemp inherited.
      Hope via promises for a better afterlife
      while imagining day-to-day miracles
      and dreaming about one's pre-programmed
      expectations. It's how any and every
      religion works.

      Prometheus




      "postekcon" wrote:
      Re
      >>>
      ME: Klemp likes to say he uses
      "common language" but it's not
      quite true. ECK is not a common
      word and neither is Mahanta.
      And, the "God" (Sugmad) he refers
      to is not the same (4th Plane) God
      others worship or think he is speaking
      about. It's deceptive of Eckists to
      use the word GOD when it's not
      who or what they are referring
      to. It's like comparing apples
      to oranges! Therefore, Eckists
      start out, and are trained, to be
      deceptive to non-Eckists. This
      fact alone makes Eckankar look
      very cult like. But, why the lie?
      The "common language" excuse
      doesn't hold water but Eckists
      can't question this underhanded
      practice or else they can have
      their position taken away and
      can be Black Listed and shunned.
      >>>


      For the past ten years, I have observed this pattern.

      Hard working HIs (50-70yrs plus) busy putting on Intro Talks, occasionally
      enrolling a new recruit to ekult.

      However, within a year or two, the new recruit leaves ekult as nothing makes
      sense! Of course, the HIs, unable to look at either themselves or ekult, always
      blame the new recruit with comments such as lack of unfoldment etc!

      For the new recruit, the reason nothing makes sense, I've observed, is thus. The
      HIs bring the new recruit into Paul Twitchell/Darwin Gross ekult; the ekult into
      which they themselved were enrolled. Now this version of ekult promised it had
      the tools for self/god realization in this lifetime etc. However, several MW
      (Mystic World) issues later, the new recruit comes to understand these 'good
      people' lied to them!
      -Postekcon


      In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > Just thought I'd share some
      > additional comments to what
      > Starshine wrote.
      >
      > starshine917 wrote:
      > Hello prometheus_973:
      > Remember me? Wow, it's so weird that I'd be writing to you now….exactly, one
      > year later….to the day, in response to your letter !!! I didn't plan it like
      > this but somehow it just worked out this way.
      >
      >
      > ME: Yes, it takes awhile for the
      > realization to occur and sink in
      > even after one decides to look
      > for and analyze it via critical
      > thinking while giving HK's/PT's
      > redundant words a litmus test
      > for truthiness.
      >
      >
      > I recently left Eckankar. And, you were right….I read David Lane's paper as
      well as Ford Johnson's "Confessions of a God Seeker" And, for some reason at
      that time I remained in the group tying to focus on the so-called positive side
      of the Eckankar, the hypnotic rederick that goes nowhere while ignoring the
      facts.

      > I then started to take a good look at Harold…looked into his "dark" eyes and
      > listened to his figure of monotone speak and I realized it was very hypnotic,
      > and at the same time very inviting. I wondered who or what was inside of those
      > dark eyes….And they seem to always come as "the light". Yes, the "angel of
      > light".
      >
      >
      > ME: Klemp is no angel of light! He spreads
      > darkness and delusion while denying Eckists
      > their true nature as Soul. He gives (hope),
      > promises (higher plane initiations), and then
      > takes it all away (hope of ever getting beyond
      > the 7th initiation while in this lifetime, unless,
      > one pretends or imagines they are higher
      > via vanity and frustration).
      >
      >
      > I was in a satsang at that time and I found it disturbing more and more that
      his
      > same picture of himself, which by the way never changes, the one and only
      > picture that has to be present at all Eckankar meetings was never questioned
      by
      > it's members. All the books we studied were written by him and only him !!!
      And
      > how some members were "higher" than others depending on their "initiation"
      > number, even if these people knew absolutely nothing except what was written
      in
      > the books of Eckankar. Some of these people seemed to have anger issues too
      > which didn't seem to fit the spiritual portrait of a saint they painted. I
      > started to feel uncomfortable around these people cause they seemed more and
      > more to me like mind-controlled slaves. And, they too could see that I was
      > thinking and starting to pull away because I no longer looked to them without
      > question, with blind authority.
      >
      >
      > ME: Yes, that more youthful looking
      > Official Picture of Klemp's is a vain act,
      > but is never questioned because to do
      > so would get one Black Listed on initiations.
      > Those longtime Eckists who are part
      > of the RESA Hierarchy know what I'm
      > saying. Some H.I.s are fearful/cautious
      > of the spies that report to the RESA and
      > only share certain things (anti-Guideline
      > comments, etc.) around those H.I.s they
      > can trust.
      >
      >
      > BTW- There are some books, that Klemp
      > has approved of, written by non-Eck
      > authors that Eckists can read. However,
      > the Eckist must always focus upon the
      > ECK or Mahanta when reading these
      > books and, thus, give up free, unfettered,
      > thought. Some of these books are
      > recommended to those in leadership
      > positions and are business oriented.
      >
      >
      >
      > So, it wasn't a good mix to say the very least. I finally had it out with one
      of
      > the members and I realized that I already left…In my heart, I choose to follow
      > truth and I also realized that that in Eckankar, I was being deceived. And I
      > realized that I couldn't have it both ways. I had to pick my convictions and
      go
      > with them. After all, why would I go against my own self, and what was in my
      > heart?
      >
      >
      > ME: It's the easy way to place an
      > authority figure on a shelf higher
      > than yourself. Less thinking and
      > effort is involved when blind trust
      > takes over. It's lazy but that's what
      > people do. Look at how we allow
      > the politicians to say and do as
      > they please without taking responsibility.
      > With Klemp, it's always the chela's
      > fault and never his own! He slowed-
      > down initiations in 1985, but doesn't
      > need to explain why these haven't
      > sped up because he answers to
      > nobody else, except, Sugmad right?
      >
      >
      > In Eckankar it is taught to open and follow your heart but yet, if you dare
      open
      > your mind and begin to ask challenging questions, you're in trouble because
      > these people think the Mahanta in Eckankar is above all else and should never
      be
      > questioned, and your heart should be open to "him", the self appointed master,
      > Harold Klemp. Even if the members of Eckankar are not honest with themselves
      > enough to admit it consciously. On a subconscious level, they know better !!!
      >
      > ME: That following your heart
      > thing is more about the Astral
      > Heart Chakra... which is lower
      > than the Third Eye or Tisra Til!
      > Why didn't Klemp at least use
      > the (Astral) Crown Chakra when
      > having Eckists HU? After 30 years
      > and HK still has Eckists HUing
      > and focusing upon the 6th,
      > Third Eye, Astral Chakra versus
      > the 7th Crown Chakra!
      >
      >
      > The shame of it all is that this deception is done in the name of an
      > unconditional open heart to give love, which it is true, a part of GOD's flow
      > but where's the truth ? What happened to that part of GOD ??? I guess it got
      > lost in the sea of love…
      >
      >
      > ME: Klemp likes to say he uses
      > "common language" but it's not
      > quite true. ECK is not a common
      > word and neither is Mahanta.
      > And, the "God" (Sugmad) he refers
      > to is not the same (4th Plane) God
      > others worship or think he is speaking
      > about. It's deceptive of Eckists to
      > use the word GOD when it's not
      > who or what they are referring
      > to. It's like comparing apples
      > to oranges! Therefore, Eckists
      > start out, and are trained, to be
      > deceptive to non-Eckists. This
      > fact alone makes Eckankar look
      > very cult like. But, why the lie?
      > The "common language" excuse
      > doesn't hold water but Eckists
      > can't question this underhanded
      > practice or else they can have
      > their position taken away and
      > be Black Listed and shunned.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      > Hello prometheus_973;
      > Remember me ? Wow, it's so weird that I'd be writ
      >
      >
      > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Rosemarie,
      > > I am a seeker of Truth as well.
      > > And yes, this article on "The Dark
      > > Side of Eckankar" is inaccurate, but
      > > there is a dark side to Eckankar and
      > > there is also fear.
      > >
      > > I find it interesting that you've
      > > read (and I assume have contemplated
      > > upon) David Lane's research as well as
      > > Ford's "Confessions of a God Seeker"
      > > and have, still, remained an ECKist.
      > >
      > > What happened to your "critical thinking?"
      > > Really, how do you justify it? Is it that
      > > you agree with some of it but not all of
      > > it? A pick and choose religious philosophy?
      > > I have met Eckists that say that Eckankar
      > > isn't a perfect choice but is as close to
      > > what they believe than any other religion
      > > they've found. Is that the case with you?
      > >
      > > I knew of Eckists who speed read Ford's
      > > book, threw it away (because of the bad
      > > vibes), and then placed themselves upon
      > > pedestals as experts, on it, in order to intervene
      > > and talk Eckists through their doubts and
      > > concerns.
      > >
      > > You talk of "truth," but fail to realize that
      > > not all truth is the same. That's why there
      > > are so many churches. People are social
      > > animals and tend to seek out others with
      > > similar beliefs. But, in most cases, this leads
      > > to a mob mentality, spiritual lethargy, and
      > > to more delusion. Religion is both a trap
      > > and a test for Soul.
      > >
      > > I also got the impression that you don't
      > > participate much within the RESA structure.
      > > Is that true? Do you know of the Guidelines?
      > > Do you know that you have to watch what
      > > you say? You've observed and learned that
      > > correct? You do care about being promoted
      > > to that next initiation right?
      > >
      > > Anyway, it would be interesting to hear your
      > > take on the subjects that we've been discussing
      > > here. Have you attended any major ECK Seminars
      > > lately? What do you think about the Metal detectors
      > > for Klemp's Saturday night talk in the main hall?
      > > Doesn't this go beyond "tying up one's camel"
      > > when the Mahanta is supposed to be able to
      > > "protect" Eckists? Besides, why are the metal
      > > detectors just for his talk?
      > >
      > > You said, "it is well known that ECKankar has issues.
      > > We are all affiliated with ECKankar in one way or anther
      > > at this site, so we have allot to bring to the table."
      > >
      > > BTW- Do you follow "God" or Sugmad? Have you
      > > read page 383 in Klemp's Autobiography?
      > >
      > > Let's discuss the "issues" and bring them to
      > > the table.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > rosemarie wrote:
      > > Hi Diana,
      > >
      > > I've had lots of experiences before my journey into eckankar and while on
      this
      > path. I have read David Lane's book and Ford Johnson's book as well. I've been
      > to eck satsangs, eck book discussions and eck seminars also. I agree that
      > honesty is essential the name of GOD on all levels. I also understand that
      truth
      > is truth and will always be the truth.
      > >
      > > I think it's important to remain open and honest regardless of what path we
      > follow and to be there for one another as much as we can. We are all searching
      > which is wonderful. Therefore, we are not wrong in doing so and let's
      remember,
      > we all have each other to try to put all this in perspective. We have so much
      to
      > bring to one another on our many different levels of knowledge and experience.
      > >
      > > I know we'll get through this some day and be stronger for it even if it
      hurts
      > sometimes. If we are to stand before GOD and try to journey back to GOD, we
      must
      > be brave and remain in truth.
      > >
      > > Thank you for getting back to me.
      > > Rosemarie
      > >
      > >
      > > dianastanley wrote:
      > >
      > Rosemarie. I think it takes a lot of courage to write here. If you have any
      > direct questions please feel free to ask. If I write something it is from
      > personal experience and is influenced by my emotions at the time. If it is
      > hearsay I also report that. If the info comes from someone I knew and was
      > their experience I also say.
      > >
      > > Diana Stanley
      > >
      > > Rosemarie Bucci wrote:
      > >
      > > I'm new to this group. First I'd like to say thank you for those of you who
      > are searching for the truth in matters regarding ECKankar and for sharing your
      > findings. However, I'd like to understand something in the "light" of critical
      > thinking for my own search of truth in regards to ECKankar.
      > >
      > I am not here to defend ECKankar. It is well known that ECKankar has issues.
      > We are all affiliated with ECKankar in one way or anther at this site, so we
      > have allot to bring to the table.
      > >
      > I have a question regarding the critical thinking technique used in this paper
      > called, "The Dark Side of ECKankar" which is listed under "links" in this web
      > site. Hopefully, you can accept this as a positive form of challenge because
      > I'd raise this same question if I were in a classroom reading this paper as
      > well. How can this paper called, "The Dark Side of ECKankar" be painted with
      > complete darkness, which is based in emotional fear in the name of critical
      > thinking? The person/s who wrote this paper are not being completely
      > objective.
      >
      > For instance, words like Mahanta, and Satsang used to attack ECKankar in this
      > paper are sacred words used in Indian religions, where they originated.
      > >
      > I certainly can understand searching for the truth which I'm sure is overdo
      > within ECKankar for many of us and I welcome investigation that is based on
      > the facts.
      > >
      > I love truth and follow it wherever it takes me. However, I don't think
      > the answer is to exchange impressions or the fears based within one religious
      > belief system and exchange them for another in the name of critical thinking.
      > Do you?
      >
    • etznab@aol.com
      One of Paul Twitchell s first reported journey s with Rebazar Tarzs mentioned eight planes, much like the Radhasoami scheme. Check the index section for Ocean
      Message 2 of 24 , Sep 14, 2011
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        One of Paul Twitchell's first reported journey's with Rebazar Tarzs
        mentioned eight planes, much like the Radhasoami scheme. Check the
        index section for Ocean of Love and Mercy in Dialogues with the Master.

        The Ocean of Love and Mercy was associated with the nameless region,
        [p. 170] and Nameless World [p.188]. In the chapter called THE FACE OF
        GOD, 6th paragraph, Paul Twitchell has Rebazar Tarzs saying: [Quoting
        >] "You are in the nameless world. The light you see is the light of
        God so vastly brilliant in all its glory that human eyes could not look
        upon it. You are now the perfect atom, for this is the Ocean of Love
        and Mercy, the true home of the SUGMAD where all Souls return in time."
        (Dialogues with the Master,by Paul Twitchell, p. 191)

        Moreover, at bottom of p. 193 [SUGMAD speaking?] "Ye are in the House
        of the SUGMAD. The abode of abodes. The highest of heavens. Ye cannot
        go higher, and here ye, Soul, having become at-one-ment with my divine
        self, return to Its true self, ever ready with Its work in the divine
        cause!"

        Chapter sixteen (The Cosmic Worlds) of Dialogues with the Master, has
        Rebazar Tarzs saying about the various planes [quoting snippet]:

        "First, It becomes united with the very essence of Sat Nam in a
        mystic sense, and so becomes one with IT, partaking of all ITS
        attributes. It then advances to the three remaining regions.
        "Next is Alakh Lok, presided over by the Alakh Purusha, and after
        this is Agam Lok, presided over by Agam Purusha. Finally Soul reaches
        the end of Its journey, the region of the nameless ONE, or the SUGMAD,
        the supreme LORD of all that exists."

        http://www.mirrorh.com/dwtm.html

        Later on, in The Far Country, Rebazar Tarzs changes the description
        slightly:

        "First, the Tuza becomes united with the very essence of the Sat Nam in
        a mystical sense, and so, becomes a part of Him, partaking in all Sat
        Nam's marvelous attributes. Then the Tuza advances to the three
        remaining known planes.
        "First is the Alakh Lok, presided over by the Alakh Purusha, and
        after this is the Agam Lok plane presided over by the Agam Purusha, or
        lord. Finally Soul reaches the end of Its journey, the region of the
        nameless One, Advaita, the formless, that which is the first you know
        about the SUGMAD, the feeling or the understanding of the Divine.
        "Eventually you come to the SUGMAD in the vast worlds above."

        http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html

        Here again (Introduction to Eckankar), the subject is illustrated (by
        Paul Twitchell) slightly different.

        "Beyond this plane is the Alakh Lok plane, and then the Agam Lok.
        Finally after a succession of many planes, Soul reaches the end of its
        journey, the region of the nameless One, or the SUGMAD, the supreme
        lord of all that exists."

        http://www.mirrorh.com/itecpwPage2.html

        The earliest scheme of planes appears to indicate Sat Lok, Alak Lok,
        Agam Lok & Anami Lok - the latter apparently associated with Ocean of
        Love & Mercy. Strangely though, someone saw fit to slip mention of
        Hukikat Lok into p. 111 of Dialogues with the Master.

        In any case, notice how Dialogues with the Master, Introduction to
        Eckankar and The Far Country tend to describe the planes similarly, and
        in similar order. Notice also, how similar are certain sections from
        The Far Country with The Path of the Masters. Example:

        "In the literature of the sacred, this divine formless spirit is
        expressed by many names, such as, ECKANKAR, Nirankar, Akal, Nirala,
        Anami, Agam, Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Akashar,
        Paramakshar, Purusha." - The Far Country

        http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html

        "In the literature of the saints, God is expressed by many words, such
        as Soami, Ekankar, Nirankar, Radha Soami, Akal, Nirala, Anami, Agam,
        Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Hari Rai, Akshar, Parameshwar,
        Akshar Purush, etc." - The Path of the Masters

        http://www.mirrorh.com/potmnots.html

        Notice how the words Soami, Radha Soami & Hari Rai are absent from the
        Eckankar version. And where the Eckankar version has ECKANKAR vs.
        Ekankar. The remarkable thing about this is how Julian Johnson's book,
        The Path of the Masters, preceded Paul Twitchell's book, The Far
        Country, by at least three decades!

        Apparently then, Eckankar changed the spelling of a word, trademarked
        it, and later published it in a book. I believe this is somehow more
        than a paraphrase.











        -----Original Message-----
        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
        <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wed, Sep 14, 2011 11:17 am
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Dark Side of ECKankar" -
        And More!

         
        Hello Postekcon and All,
        Yes, it was always a conundrum
        trying to recruit new members
        via "spreading the word" i.e.
        manure. However, we had
        structured public workshops
        and/or book discussions with
        Guidelines spelling out what
        to do and how to do it.

        Some RESA areas did experimental
        programs (special projects),
        and if successful, the ESC
        tweaked them to be used
        elsewhere. It was all quite
        time consuming and frustrating.
        Local areas and the H.I.s were
        always judged on the numbers
        of newbies showing up for
        these events. Most people
        were repeats and were into
        metaphysics or were the friends,
        coworkers or relatives of Eckists.

        I recall that one local area
        of a neighboring state was
        having a lot of success via
        large turnouts of newbies.
        They probably had a couple
        of hundred newbies in one
        year and that was practically
        unheard of in Eckankar. Several
        of these H.I.s were very proud
        of the "high counts" they turned
        in to the ESC. However, out
        of all of those newbies only
        about ten joined Eckankar
        and only, maybe, one or two
        remained after a year. These,
        I doubt, remained for the
        long haul. Let's face it, it's
        a dead end religion where
        one pretends, i.e. imagines
        or visualizes, their desires
        for "spiritual" progress and
        "knowingness" or "realization"
        of varying degrees. The initiation
        game is the main, underlying,
        theme. The problem, for Eckists,
        is that dangling carrot when
        initiations have been "slowed-
        down" for 25 years and the
        highest most can go is the 7th!

        Those 7th initiates who had
        hit the glass ceiling 20 or more
        years ago have rationalized
        it all away. They only stay in
        EK because they have some
        prestige, a lot of Eck friends,
        and have paid their dues with
        a lot of vahana and satsang
        work over the years. Plus, they've
        been taught to "imagine" and
        visualize, therefore, all they
        need to do is pretend they are
        8ths (on the inner). Most pretend
        they are higher than 8ths. After
        all, Darwin skipped or sped up
        initiations even for Klemp. So,
        if it was valid, then, why not
        today? Actually, just about all
        Eckists pretent they are "higher"
        than the number printed on
        their Membership Cards.

        Anyway, the reason why
        the EK Youth effort has
        gained some momentum
        over the years is because
        it's easier to brainwash a
        controlled subject. However,
        that doesn't always work,
        either, when these young
        Eckists see their parents
        act so nutty and non-Eck
        like. Plus, reclusive Klemp
        puts a lot of pressure upon
        them to do the vahana/
        missionary thing when
        it's tough enough getting
        through school and those
        teen years. Klemp doesn't
        have any empathy. He was
        in a Lutheran all boys high
        school and never learned
        about dating until he got
        out of the Air Force (1968)
        when he was 26 years old!

        One has to wonder why
        Klemp doesn't do his fair
        share of public vahana work.
        Why doesn't he have a radio
        show or do and say something
        in real time? The EK Seminars
        don't count. That's for maybe
        a hundred newbies who aren't
        all that "new" and for his brain-
        washed followers.

        In theory, Klemp's real "spiritual"
        mission is to help his followers
        achieve God Realization. However,
        what Initiation level is the indicator
        that this has been accomplished?

        According to Book 2, CH. 12 of
        the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad (Eckankar's
        Holy Book) their God, Sugmad,
        resides on the 10th Plane, however,
        Eckists must have the 11th Initiation
        for "entrance into the Sugmad world,
        which is the highest world of God,
        if any, may enter."

        Of course, that's not quite true either
        since there're the 12th, 13th, and 14th
        initiations after this one. This, then,
        is where one (supposedly) enters into
        Soul's true home called The Ocean of
        love and Mercy. However, one can see
        why EK Higher initiates (5-7) become
        internally frustrated since, except for
        a handful of people, they will never
        even see the 8th initiation (in this
        lifetime). That's the Catch/Con that
        Twitchell invented and Klemp inherited.
        Hope via promises for a better afterlife
        while imagining day-to-day miracles
        and dreaming about one's pre-programmed
        expectations. It's how any and every
        religion works.

        Prometheus

        "postekcon" wrote:
        Re
        >>>
        ME: Klemp likes to say he uses
        "common language" but it's not
        quite true. ECK is not a common
        word and neither is Mahanta.
        And, the "God" (Sugmad) he refers
        to is not the same (4th Plane) God
        others worship or think he is speaking
        about. It's deceptive of Eckists to
        use the word GOD when it's not
        who or what they are referring
        to. It's like comparing apples
        to oranges! Therefore, Eckists
        start out, and are trained, to be
        deceptive to non-Eckists. This
        fact alone makes Eckankar look
        very cult like. But, why the lie?
        The "common language" excuse
        doesn't hold water but Eckists
        can't question this underhanded
        practice or else they can have
        their position taken away and
        can be Black Listed and shunned.
        >>>

        For the past ten years, I have observed this pattern.

        Hard working HIs (50-70yrs plus) busy putting on Intro Talks,
        occasionally
        enrolling a new recruit to ekult.

        However, within a year or two, the new recruit leaves ekult as nothing
        makes
        sense! Of course, the HIs, unable to look at either themselves or
        ekult, always
        blame the new recruit with comments such as lack of unfoldment etc!

        For the new recruit, the reason nothing makes sense, I've observed, is
        thus. The
        HIs bring the new recruit into Paul Twitchell/Darwin Gross ekult; the
        ekult into
        which they themselved were enrolled. Now this version of ekult promised
        it had
        the tools for self/god realization in this lifetime etc. However,
        several MW
        (Mystic World) issues later, the new recruit comes to understand these
        'good
        people' lied to them!
        -Postekcon

        In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > Just thought I'd share some
        > additional comments to what
        > Starshine wrote.
        >
        > starshine917 wrote:
        > Hello prometheus_973:
        > Remember me? Wow, it's so weird that I'd be writing to you
        now….exactly, one
        > year later….to the day, in response to your letter !!! I didn't
        plan it like
        > this but somehow it just worked out this way.
        >
        >
        > ME: Yes, it takes awhile for the
        > realization to occur and sink in
        > even after one decides to look
        > for and analyze it via critical
        > thinking while giving HK's/PT's
        > redundant words a litmus test
        > for truthiness.
        >
        >
        > I recently left Eckankar. And, you were right….I read David Lane's
        paper as
        well as Ford Johnson's "Confessions of a God Seeker" And, for some
        reason at
        that time I remained in the group tying to focus on the so-called
        positive side
        of the Eckankar, the hypnotic rederick that goes nowhere while ignoring
        the
        facts.

        > I then started to take a good look at Harold…looked into his
        "dark" eyes and
        > listened to his figure of monotone speak and I realized it was
        very hypnotic,
        > and at the same time very inviting. I wondered who or what was
        inside of those
        > dark eyes….And they seem to always come as "the light". Yes, the
        "angel of
        > light".
        >
        >
        > ME: Klemp is no angel of light! He spreads
        > darkness and delusion while denying Eckists
        > their true nature as Soul. He gives (hope),
        > promises (higher plane initiations), and then
        > takes it all away (hope of ever getting beyond
        > the 7th initiation while in this lifetime, unless,
        > one pretends or imagines they are higher
        > via vanity and frustration).
        >
        >
        > I was in a satsang at that time and I found it disturbing more and
        more that
        his
        > same picture of himself, which by the way never changes, the one
        and only
        > picture that has to be present at all Eckankar meetings was never
        questioned
        by
        > it's members. All the books we studied were written by him and
        only him !!!
        And
        > how some members were "higher" than others depending on their
        "initiation"
        > number, even if these people knew absolutely nothing except what
        was written
        in
        > the books of Eckankar. Some of these people seemed to have anger
        issues too
        > which didn't seem to fit the spiritual portrait of a saint they
        painted. I
        > started to feel uncomfortable around these people cause they
        seemed more and
        > more to me like mind-controlled slaves. And, they too could see
        that I was
        > thinking and starting to pull away because I no longer looked to
        them without
        > question, with blind authority.
        >
        >
        > ME: Yes, that more youthful looking
        > Official Picture of Klemp's is a vain act,
        > but is never questioned because to do
        > so would get one Black Listed on initiations.
        > Those longtime Eckists who are part
        > of the RESA Hierarchy know what I'm
        > saying. Some H.I.s are fearful/cautious
        > of the spies that report to the RESA and
        > only share certain things (anti-Guideline
        > comments, etc.) around those H.I.s they
        > can trust.
        >
        >
        > BTW- There are some books, that Klemp
        > has approved of, written by non-Eck
        > authors that Eckists can read. However,
        > the Eckist must always focus upon the
        > ECK or Mahanta when reading these
        > books and, thus, give up free, unfettered,
        > thought. Some of these books are
        > recommended to those in leadership
        > positions and are business oriented.
        >
        >
        >
        > So, it wasn't a good mix to say the very least. I finally had it
        out with one
        of
        > the members and I realized that I already left…In my heart, I
        choose to follow
        > truth and I also realized that that in Eckankar, I was being
        deceived. And I
        > realized that I couldn't have it both ways. I had to pick my
        convictions and
        go
        > with them. After all, why would I go against my own self, and what
        was in my
        > heart?
        >
        >
        > ME: It's the easy way to place an
        > authority figure on a shelf higher
        > than yourself. Less thinking and
        > effort is involved when blind trust
        > takes over. It's lazy but that's what
        > people do. Look at how we allow
        > the politicians to say and do as
        > they please without taking responsibility.
        > With Klemp, it's always the chela's
        > fault and never his own! He slowed-
        > down initiations in 1985, but doesn't
        > need to explain why these haven't
        > sped up because he answers to
        > nobody else, except, Sugmad right?
        >
        >
        > In Eckankar it is taught to open and follow your heart but yet, if
        you dare
        open
        > your mind and begin to ask challenging questions, you're in
        trouble because
        > these people think the Mahanta in Eckankar is above all else and
        should never
        be
        > questioned, and your heart should be open to "him", the self
        appointed master,
        > Harold Klemp. Even if the members of Eckankar are not honest with
        themselves
        > enough to admit it consciously. On a subconscious level, they know
        better !!!
        >
        > ME: That following your heart
        > thing is more about the Astral
        > Heart Chakra... which is lower
        > than the Third Eye or Tisra Til!
        > Why didn't Klemp at least use
        > the (Astral) Crown Chakra when
        > having Eckists HU? After 30 years
        > and HK still has Eckists HUing
        > and focusing upon the 6th,
        > Third Eye, Astral Chakra versus
        > the 7th Crown Chakra!
        >
        >
        > The shame of it all is that this deception is done in the name of
        an
        > unconditional open heart to give love, which it is true, a part of
        GOD's flow
        > but where's the truth ? What happened to that part of GOD ??? I
        guess it got
        > lost in the sea of love…
        >
        >
        > ME: Klemp likes to say he uses
        > "common language" but it's not
        > quite true. ECK is not a common
        > word and neither is Mahanta.
        > And, the "God" (Sugmad) he refers
        > to is not the same (4th Plane) God
        > others worship or think he is speaking
        > about. It's deceptive of Eckists to
        > use the word GOD when it's not
        > who or what they are referring
        > to. It's like comparing apples
        > to oranges! Therefore, Eckists
        > start out, and are trained, to be
        > deceptive to non-Eckists. This
        > fact alone makes Eckankar look
        > very cult like. But, why the lie?
        > The "common language" excuse
        > doesn't hold water but Eckists
        > can't question this underhanded
        > practice or else they can have
        > their position taken away and
        > be Black Listed and shunned.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        >
        > Hello prometheus_973;
        > Remember me ? Wow, it's so weird that I'd be writ
        >
        >
        > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Rosemarie,
        > > I am a seeker of Truth as well.
        > > And yes, this article on "The Dark
        > > Side of Eckankar" is inaccurate, but
        > > there is a dark side to Eckankar and
        > > there is also fear.
        > >
        > > I find it interesting that you've
        > > read (and I assume have contemplated
        > > upon) David Lane's research as well as
        > > Ford's "Confessions of a God Seeker"
        > > and have, still, remained an ECKist.
        > >
        > > What happened to your "critical thinking?"
        > > Really, how do you justify it? Is it that
        > > you agree with some of it but not all of
        > > it? A pick and choose religious philosophy?
        > > I have met Eckists that say that Eckankar
        > > isn't a perfect choice but is as close to
        > > what they believe than any other religion
        > > they've found. Is that the case with you?
        > >
        > > I knew of Eckists who speed read Ford's
        > > book, threw it away (because of the bad
        > > vibes), and then placed themselves upon
        > > pedestals as experts, on it, in order to intervene
        > > and talk Eckists through their doubts and
        > > concerns.
        > >
        > > You talk of "truth," but fail to realize that
        > > not all truth is the same. That's why there
        > > are so many churches. People are social
        > > animals and tend to seek out others with
        > > similar beliefs. But, in most cases, this leads
        > > to a mob mentality, spiritual lethargy, and
        > > to more delusion. Religion is both a trap
        > > and a test for Soul.
        > >
        > > I also got the impression that you don't
        > > participate much within the RESA structure.
        > > Is that true? Do you know of the Guidelines?
        > > Do you know that you have to watch what
        > > you say? You've observed and learned that
        > > correct? You do care about being promoted
        > > to that next initiation right?
        > >
        > > Anyway, it would be interesting to hear your
        > > take on the subjects that we've been discussing
        > > here. Have you attended any major ECK Seminars
        > > lately? What do you think about the Metal detectors
        > > for Klemp's Saturday night talk in the main hall?
        > > Doesn't this go beyond "tying up one's camel"
        > > when the Mahanta is supposed to be able to
        > > "protect" Eckists? Besides, why are the metal
        > > detectors just for his talk?
        > >
        > > You said, "it is well known that ECKankar has issues.
        > > We are all affiliated with ECKankar in one way or anther
        > > at this site, so we have allot to bring to the table."
        > >
        > > BTW- Do you follow "God" or Sugmad? Have you
        > > read page 383 in Klemp's Autobiography?
        > >
        > > Let's discuss the "issues" and bring them to
        > > the table.
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > > rosemarie wrote:
        > > Hi Diana,
        > >
        > > I've had lots of experiences before my journey into eckankar
        and while on
        this
        > path. I have read David Lane's book and Ford Johnson's book as
        well. I've been
        > to eck satsangs, eck book discussions and eck seminars also. I
        agree that
        > honesty is essential the name of GOD on all levels. I also
        understand that
        truth
        > is truth and will always be the truth.
        > >
        > > I think it's important to remain open and honest regardless
        of what path we
        > follow and to be there for one another as much as we can. We are
        all searching
        > which is wonderful. Therefore, we are not wrong in doing so and
        let's
        remember,
        > we all have each other to try to put all this in perspective. We
        have so much
        to
        > bring to one another on our many different levels of knowledge and
        experience.
        > >
        > > I know we'll get through this some day and be stronger for it
        even if it
        hurts
        > sometimes. If we are to stand before GOD and try to journey back
        to GOD, we
        must
        > be brave and remain in truth.
        > >
        > > Thank you for getting back to me.
        > > Rosemarie
        > >
        > >
        > > dianastanley wrote:
        > >
        > Rosemarie. I think it takes a lot of courage to write here. If you
        have any
        > direct questions please feel free to ask. If I write something it
        is from
        > personal experience and is influenced by my emotions at the time.
        If it is
        > hearsay I also report that. If the info comes from someone I knew
        and was
        > their experience I also say.
        > >
        > > Diana Stanley
        > >
        > > Rosemarie Bucci wrote:
        > >
        > > I'm new to this group. First I'd like to say thank you for
        those of you who
        > are searching for the truth in matters regarding ECKankar and for
        sharing your
        > findings. However, I'd like to understand something in the "light"
        of critical
        > thinking for my own search of truth in regards to ECKankar.
        > >
        > I am not here to defend ECKankar. It is well known that ECKankar
        has issues.
        > We are all affiliated with ECKankar in one way or anther at this
        site, so we
        > have allot to bring to the table.
        > >
        > I have a question regarding the critical thinking technique used
        in this paper
        > called, "The Dark Side of ECKankar" which is listed under "links"
        in this web
        > site. Hopefully, you can accept this as a positive form of
        challenge because
        > I'd raise this same question if I were in a classroom reading this
        paper as
        > well. How can this paper called, "The Dark Side of ECKankar" be
        painted with
        > complete darkness, which is based in emotional fear in the name of
        critical
        > thinking? The person/s who wrote this paper are not being
        completely
        > objective.
        >
        > For instance, words like Mahanta, and Satsang used to attack
        ECKankar in this
        > paper are sacred words used in Indian religions, where they
        originated.
        > >
        > I certainly can understand searching for the truth which I'm sure
        is overdo
        > within ECKankar for many of us and I welcome investigation that is
        based on
        > the facts.
        > >
        > I love truth and follow it wherever it takes me. However, I don't
        think
        > the answer is to exchange impressions or the fears based within
        one religious
        > belief system and exchange them for another in the name of
        critical thinking.
        > Do you?
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Etznab and All, It is interesting that Twitchell has his Rebazar character (the Master who initiated him) indicate that there were 8 Planes just as
        Message 3 of 24 , Sep 16, 2011
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          Hello Etznab and All,
          It is interesting that Twitchell
          has his Rebazar character (the
          "Master" who initiated him)
          indicate that there were 8 Planes
          just as Radhasomi and Ruhani
          Satsang have listed in "The Path
          of the Masters." Since Kirpal
          Singh, of Ruhani Satsang, was
          Paul's real life Master for ten years
          it's no wonder that this dogma was
          influential in the design of Eckankar.

          Of course, Twitchell was constantly
          tweaking, revising, and masking his
          religious con as time went by.

          The Anami Lok (10th Plane where
          "Sugmad" resides) didn't appear until
          later. Did Rebazar simply forget to
          mention this as well as the "Mahanta?"
          Did RT think that Paul needed to be
          spoon-fed and wasn't ready for this
          advanced "spiritual" info? No, not really.
          According to Twitchell he had been
          given the 12th and "final initiation"
          (to become LEM) back in 1951 by
          Rebazar while on his "2nd" visit to
          India. See, the timeline is off for this
          ekplanation to be taken seriously as
          well.

          Therefore, there is no rational excuse
          for these inconsistencies except to
          admit that the "rascal" Twitchell was,
          once again, "exaggerating" and "twisting
          facts" as even Klemp has described
          and said of him. Klemp, years ago,
          had to admit that Twitchell was a self-
          promoter and did or said whatever
          he needed to do ("By Any Means Necessary")
          in order to get Eckankar off the ground.

          This is why Klemp, at first, had a
          difficult job of explaining Twitchell's
          inconsistencies and needed to keep
          Eckists confused, busy, and off-balance.
          Now, Eckists are so brainwashed that
          Klemp can say whatever in his simple
          minded redundant versions of feel-good
          New Age spirituality.


          Prometheus



          etznab wrote:

          One of Paul Twitchell's first reported journey's with Rebazar Tarzs
          mentioned eight planes, much like the Radhasoami scheme. Check the
          index section for Ocean of Love and Mercy in Dialogues with the Master.

          The Ocean of Love and Mercy was associated with the nameless region,
          [p. 170] and Nameless World [p.188]. In the chapter called THE FACE OF
          GOD, 6th paragraph, Paul Twitchell has Rebazar Tarzs saying: [Quoting]
          "You are in the nameless world. The light you see is the light of
          God so vastly brilliant in all its glory that human eyes could not look
          upon it. You are now the perfect atom, for this is the Ocean of Love
          and Mercy, the true home of the SUGMAD where all Souls return in time."
          (Dialogues with the Master,by Paul Twitchell, p. 191)

          Moreover, at bottom of p. 193 [SUGMAD speaking?] "Ye are in the House
          of the SUGMAD. The abode of abodes. The highest of heavens. Ye cannot
          go higher, and here ye, Soul, having become at-one-ment with my divine
          self, return to Its true self, ever ready with Its work in the divine
          cause!"

          Chapter sixteen (The Cosmic Worlds) of Dialogues with the Master, has
          Rebazar Tarzs saying about the various planes [quoting snippet]:

          "First, It becomes united with the very essence of Sat Nam in a
          mystic sense, and so becomes one with IT, partaking of all ITS
          attributes. It then advances to the three remaining regions.
          "Next is Alakh Lok, presided over by the Alakh Purusha, and after
          this is Agam Lok, presided over by Agam Purusha. Finally Soul reaches
          the end of Its journey, the region of the nameless ONE, or the SUGMAD,
          the supreme LORD of all that exists."

          http://www.mirrorh.com/dwtm.html

          Later on, in The Far Country, Rebazar Tarzs changes the description
          slightly:

          "First, the Tuza becomes united with the very essence of the Sat Nam in
          a mystical sense, and so, becomes a part of Him, partaking in all Sat
          Nam's marvelous attributes. Then the Tuza advances to the three
          remaining known planes.

          "First is the Alakh Lok, presided over by the Alakh Purusha, and
          after this is the Agam Lok plane presided over by the Agam Purusha, or
          lord. Finally Soul reaches the end of Its journey, the region of the
          nameless One, Advaita, the formless, that which is the first you know
          about the SUGMAD, the feeling or the understanding of the Divine.

          "Eventually you come to the SUGMAD in the vast worlds above."

          http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html

          Here again (Introduction to Eckankar), the subject is illustrated (by
          Paul Twitchell) slightly different.

          "Beyond this plane is the Alakh Lok plane, and then the Agam Lok.
          Finally after a succession of many planes, Soul reaches the end of its
          journey, the region of the nameless One, or the SUGMAD, the supreme
          lord of all that exists."

          http://www.mirrorh.com/itecpwPage2.html

          The earliest scheme of planes appears to indicate Sat Lok, Alak Lok,
          Agam Lok & Anami Lok - the latter apparently associated with Ocean of
          Love & Mercy. Strangely though, someone saw fit to slip mention of
          Hukikat Lok into p. 111 of Dialogues with the Master.

          In any case, notice how Dialogues with the Master, Introduction to
          Eckankar and The Far Country tend to describe the planes similarly, and
          in similar order. Notice also, how similar are certain sections from
          The Far Country with The Path of the Masters. Example:

          "In the literature of the sacred, this divine formless spirit is
          expressed by many names, such as, ECKANKAR, Nirankar, Akal, Nirala,
          Anami, Agam, Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Akashar,
          Paramakshar, Purusha." - The Far Country

          http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html

          "In the literature of the saints, God is expressed by many words, such
          as Soami, Ekankar, Nirankar, Radha Soami, Akal, Nirala, Anami, Agam,
          Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Hari Rai, Akshar, Parameshwar,
          Akshar Purush, etc." - The Path of the Masters

          http://www.mirrorh.com/potmnots.html

          Notice how the words Soami, Radha Soami & Hari Rai are absent from the
          Eckankar version. And where the Eckankar version has ECKANKAR vs.
          Ekankar. The remarkable thing about this is how Julian Johnson's book,
          The Path of the Masters, preceded Paul Twitchell's book, The Far
          Country, by at least three decades!

          Apparently then, Eckankar changed the spelling of a word, trademarked
          it, and later published it in a book. I believe this is somehow more
          than a paraphrase.
        • etznab18
          Almost didn t see this response because the e-mail bounced. Umm ... about the self-promotion, whatever, people can read about some of the history here.
          Message 4 of 24 , Sep 16, 2011
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            Almost didn't see this response because the e-mail bounced.

            Umm ... about the self-promotion, whatever, people can read about some of the history here.

            http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man.html

            Check out 4th paragraph of article entitled: Paul's Seal of Approval.

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Etznab and All,
            > It is interesting that Twitchell
            > has his Rebazar character (the
            > "Master" who initiated him)
            > indicate that there were 8 Planes
            > just as Radhasomi and Ruhani
            > Satsang have listed in "The Path
            > of the Masters." Since Kirpal
            > Singh, of Ruhani Satsang, was
            > Paul's real life Master for ten years
            > it's no wonder that this dogma was
            > influential in the design of Eckankar.
            >
            > Of course, Twitchell was constantly
            > tweaking, revising, and masking his
            > religious con as time went by.
            >
            > The Anami Lok (10th Plane where
            > "Sugmad" resides) didn't appear until
            > later. Did Rebazar simply forget to
            > mention this as well as the "Mahanta?"
            > Did RT think that Paul needed to be
            > spoon-fed and wasn't ready for this
            > advanced "spiritual" info? No, not really.
            > According to Twitchell he had been
            > given the 12th and "final initiation"
            > (to become LEM) back in 1951 by
            > Rebazar while on his "2nd" visit to
            > India. See, the timeline is off for this
            > ekplanation to be taken seriously as
            > well.
            >
            > Therefore, there is no rational excuse
            > for these inconsistencies except to
            > admit that the "rascal" Twitchell was,
            > once again, "exaggerating" and "twisting
            > facts" as even Klemp has described
            > and said of him. Klemp, years ago,
            > had to admit that Twitchell was a self-
            > promoter and did or said whatever
            > he needed to do ("By Any Means Necessary")
            > in order to get Eckankar off the ground.
            >
            > This is why Klemp, at first, had a
            > difficult job of explaining Twitchell's
            > inconsistencies and needed to keep
            > Eckists confused, busy, and off-balance.
            > Now, Eckists are so brainwashed that
            > Klemp can say whatever in his simple
            > minded redundant versions of feel-good
            > New Age spirituality.
            >
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            > etznab wrote:
            >
            > One of Paul Twitchell's first reported journey's with Rebazar Tarzs
            > mentioned eight planes, much like the Radhasoami scheme. Check the
            > index section for Ocean of Love and Mercy in Dialogues with the Master.
            >
            > The Ocean of Love and Mercy was associated with the nameless region,
            > [p. 170] and Nameless World [p.188]. In the chapter called THE FACE OF
            > GOD, 6th paragraph, Paul Twitchell has Rebazar Tarzs saying: [Quoting]
            > "You are in the nameless world. The light you see is the light of
            > God so vastly brilliant in all its glory that human eyes could not look
            > upon it. You are now the perfect atom, for this is the Ocean of Love
            > and Mercy, the true home of the SUGMAD where all Souls return in time."
            > (Dialogues with the Master,by Paul Twitchell, p. 191)
            >
            > Moreover, at bottom of p. 193 [SUGMAD speaking?] "Ye are in the House
            > of the SUGMAD. The abode of abodes. The highest of heavens. Ye cannot
            > go higher, and here ye, Soul, having become at-one-ment with my divine
            > self, return to Its true self, ever ready with Its work in the divine
            > cause!"
            >
            > Chapter sixteen (The Cosmic Worlds) of Dialogues with the Master, has
            > Rebazar Tarzs saying about the various planes [quoting snippet]:
            >
            > "First, It becomes united with the very essence of Sat Nam in a
            > mystic sense, and so becomes one with IT, partaking of all ITS
            > attributes. It then advances to the three remaining regions.
            > "Next is Alakh Lok, presided over by the Alakh Purusha, and after
            > this is Agam Lok, presided over by Agam Purusha. Finally Soul reaches
            > the end of Its journey, the region of the nameless ONE, or the SUGMAD,
            > the supreme LORD of all that exists."
            >
            > http://www.mirrorh.com/dwtm.html
            >
            > Later on, in The Far Country, Rebazar Tarzs changes the description
            > slightly:
            >
            > "First, the Tuza becomes united with the very essence of the Sat Nam in
            > a mystical sense, and so, becomes a part of Him, partaking in all Sat
            > Nam's marvelous attributes. Then the Tuza advances to the three
            > remaining known planes.
            >
            > "First is the Alakh Lok, presided over by the Alakh Purusha, and
            > after this is the Agam Lok plane presided over by the Agam Purusha, or
            > lord. Finally Soul reaches the end of Its journey, the region of the
            > nameless One, Advaita, the formless, that which is the first you know
            > about the SUGMAD, the feeling or the understanding of the Divine.
            >
            > "Eventually you come to the SUGMAD in the vast worlds above."
            >
            > http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html
            >
            > Here again (Introduction to Eckankar), the subject is illustrated (by
            > Paul Twitchell) slightly different.
            >
            > "Beyond this plane is the Alakh Lok plane, and then the Agam Lok.
            > Finally after a succession of many planes, Soul reaches the end of its
            > journey, the region of the nameless One, or the SUGMAD, the supreme
            > lord of all that exists."
            >
            > http://www.mirrorh.com/itecpwPage2.html
            >
            > The earliest scheme of planes appears to indicate Sat Lok, Alak Lok,
            > Agam Lok & Anami Lok - the latter apparently associated with Ocean of
            > Love & Mercy. Strangely though, someone saw fit to slip mention of
            > Hukikat Lok into p. 111 of Dialogues with the Master.
            >
            > In any case, notice how Dialogues with the Master, Introduction to
            > Eckankar and The Far Country tend to describe the planes similarly, and
            > in similar order. Notice also, how similar are certain sections from
            > The Far Country with The Path of the Masters. Example:
            >
            > "In the literature of the sacred, this divine formless spirit is
            > expressed by many names, such as, ECKANKAR, Nirankar, Akal, Nirala,
            > Anami, Agam, Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Akashar,
            > Paramakshar, Purusha." - The Far Country
            >
            > http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html
            >
            > "In the literature of the saints, God is expressed by many words, such
            > as Soami, Ekankar, Nirankar, Radha Soami, Akal, Nirala, Anami, Agam,
            > Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Hari Rai, Akshar, Parameshwar,
            > Akshar Purush, etc." - The Path of the Masters
            >
            > http://www.mirrorh.com/potmnots.html
            >
            > Notice how the words Soami, Radha Soami & Hari Rai are absent from the
            > Eckankar version. And where the Eckankar version has ECKANKAR vs.
            > Ekankar. The remarkable thing about this is how Julian Johnson's book,
            > The Path of the Masters, preceded Paul Twitchell's book, The Far
            > Country, by at least three decades!
            >
            > Apparently then, Eckankar changed the spelling of a word, trademarked
            > it, and later published it in a book. I believe this is somehow more
            > than a paraphrase.
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Etznab and All, This tells how Paul Twitchell was His Own Drum Beater: http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html What s interesting is that at
            Message 5 of 24 , Sep 17, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Etznab and All,
              This tells how Paul Twitchell
              was His Own Drum Beater:

              http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html

              What's interesting is that at age 27 (1935)
              Twitchell was saying that he had been
              to India (supposedly at age 15 to meet
              Rebazar for the first time, DOBTLEM).
              However, Klemp points out that Twitchell
              was doing another self-promotion, and
              was lying in order to get into Who's Who
              in Kentucky. Klemp states that Twitchell
              had never been all that far from home
              at age 27. Klemp seems to have stepped
              into a big pile of Twits mess. HK's
              statement contradicts what Twitchell
              revealed in Difficulties of Becoming the
              Living ECK Master circa July, 1971. This
              1971 date is, supposedly, long after Twitchell
              (the Mahanta) was was no longer "exaggerating"
              and "twisting facts." However, as Klemp
              has pointed out Twitchell was still lying
              and promoting his con up until his untimely
              and death in September, 1971.

              Prometheus

              etznab@...> wrote:
              >
              > Almost didn't see this response because the e-mail bounced.
              >
              > Umm ... about the self-promotion, whatever, people can read about some of the history here.
              >
              > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man.html
              >
              > Check out 4th paragraph of article entitled: Paul's Seal of Approval.
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Etznab and All,
              > > It is interesting that Twitchell
              > > has his Rebazar character (the
              > > "Master" who initiated him)
              > > indicate that there were 8 Planes
              > > just as Radhasomi and Ruhani
              > > Satsang have listed in "The Path
              > > of the Masters." Since Kirpal
              > > Singh, of Ruhani Satsang, was
              > > Paul's real life Master for ten years
              > > it's no wonder that this dogma was
              > > influential in the design of Eckankar.
              > >
              > > Of course, Twitchell was constantly
              > > tweaking, revising, and masking his
              > > religious con as time went by.
              > >
              > > The Anami Lok (10th Plane where
              > > "Sugmad" resides) didn't appear until
              > > later. Did Rebazar simply forget to
              > > mention this as well as the "Mahanta?"
              > > Did RT think that Paul needed to be
              > > spoon-fed and wasn't ready for this
              > > advanced "spiritual" info? No, not really.
              > > According to Twitchell he had been
              > > given the 12th and "final initiation"
              > > (to become LEM) back in 1951 by
              > > Rebazar while on his "2nd" visit to
              > > India. See, the timeline is off for this
              > > ekplanation to be taken seriously as
              > > well.
              > >
              > > Therefore, there is no rational excuse
              > > for these inconsistencies except to
              > > admit that the "rascal" Twitchell was,
              > > once again, "exaggerating" and "twisting
              > > facts" as even Klemp has described
              > > and said of him. Klemp, years ago,
              > > had to admit that Twitchell was a self-
              > > promoter and did or said whatever
              > > he needed to do ("By Any Means Necessary")
              > > in order to get Eckankar off the ground.
              > >
              > > This is why Klemp, at first, had a
              > > difficult job of explaining Twitchell's
              > > inconsistencies and needed to keep
              > > Eckists confused, busy, and off-balance.
              > > Now, Eckists are so brainwashed that
              > > Klemp can say whatever in his simple
              > > minded redundant versions of feel-good
              > > New Age spirituality.
              > >
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > etznab wrote:
              > >
              > > One of Paul Twitchell's first reported journey's with Rebazar Tarzs
              > > mentioned eight planes, much like the Radhasoami scheme. Check the
              > > index section for Ocean of Love and Mercy in Dialogues with the Master.
              > >
              > > The Ocean of Love and Mercy was associated with the nameless region,
              > > [p. 170] and Nameless World [p.188]. In the chapter called THE FACE OF
              > > GOD, 6th paragraph, Paul Twitchell has Rebazar Tarzs saying: [Quoting]
              > > "You are in the nameless world. The light you see is the light of
              > > God so vastly brilliant in all its glory that human eyes could not look
              > > upon it. You are now the perfect atom, for this is the Ocean of Love
              > > and Mercy, the true home of the SUGMAD where all Souls return in time."
              > > (Dialogues with the Master,by Paul Twitchell, p. 191)
              > >
              > > Moreover, at bottom of p. 193 [SUGMAD speaking?] "Ye are in the House
              > > of the SUGMAD. The abode of abodes. The highest of heavens. Ye cannot
              > > go higher, and here ye, Soul, having become at-one-ment with my divine
              > > self, return to Its true self, ever ready with Its work in the divine
              > > cause!"
              > >
              > > Chapter sixteen (The Cosmic Worlds) of Dialogues with the Master, has
              > > Rebazar Tarzs saying about the various planes [quoting snippet]:
              > >
              > > "First, It becomes united with the very essence of Sat Nam in a
              > > mystic sense, and so becomes one with IT, partaking of all ITS
              > > attributes. It then advances to the three remaining regions.
              > > "Next is Alakh Lok, presided over by the Alakh Purusha, and after
              > > this is Agam Lok, presided over by Agam Purusha. Finally Soul reaches
              > > the end of Its journey, the region of the nameless ONE, or the SUGMAD,
              > > the supreme LORD of all that exists."
              > >
              > > http://www.mirrorh.com/dwtm.html
              > >
              > > Later on, in The Far Country, Rebazar Tarzs changes the description
              > > slightly:
              > >
              > > "First, the Tuza becomes united with the very essence of the Sat Nam in
              > > a mystical sense, and so, becomes a part of Him, partaking in all Sat
              > > Nam's marvelous attributes. Then the Tuza advances to the three
              > > remaining known planes.
              > >
              > > "First is the Alakh Lok, presided over by the Alakh Purusha, and
              > > after this is the Agam Lok plane presided over by the Agam Purusha, or
              > > lord. Finally Soul reaches the end of Its journey, the region of the
              > > nameless One, Advaita, the formless, that which is the first you know
              > > about the SUGMAD, the feeling or the understanding of the Divine.
              > >
              > > "Eventually you come to the SUGMAD in the vast worlds above."
              > >
              > > http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html
              > >
              > > Here again (Introduction to Eckankar), the subject is illustrated (by
              > > Paul Twitchell) slightly different.
              > >
              > > "Beyond this plane is the Alakh Lok plane, and then the Agam Lok.
              > > Finally after a succession of many planes, Soul reaches the end of its
              > > journey, the region of the nameless One, or the SUGMAD, the supreme
              > > lord of all that exists."
              > >
              > > http://www.mirrorh.com/itecpwPage2.html
              > >
              > > The earliest scheme of planes appears to indicate Sat Lok, Alak Lok,
              > > Agam Lok & Anami Lok - the latter apparently associated with Ocean of
              > > Love & Mercy. Strangely though, someone saw fit to slip mention of
              > > Hukikat Lok into p. 111 of Dialogues with the Master.
              > >
              > > In any case, notice how Dialogues with the Master, Introduction to
              > > Eckankar and The Far Country tend to describe the planes similarly, and
              > > in similar order. Notice also, how similar are certain sections from
              > > The Far Country with The Path of the Masters. Example:
              > >
              > > "In the literature of the sacred, this divine formless spirit is
              > > expressed by many names, such as, ECKANKAR, Nirankar, Akal, Nirala,
              > > Anami, Agam, Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Akashar,
              > > Paramakshar, Purusha." - The Far Country
              > >
              > > http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html
              > >
              > > "In the literature of the saints, God is expressed by many words, such
              > > as Soami, Ekankar, Nirankar, Radha Soami, Akal, Nirala, Anami, Agam,
              > > Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Hari Rai, Akshar, Parameshwar,
              > > Akshar Purush, etc." - The Path of the Masters
              > >
              > > http://www.mirrorh.com/potmnots.html
              > >
              > > Notice how the words Soami, Radha Soami & Hari Rai are absent from the
              > > Eckankar version. And where the Eckankar version has ECKANKAR vs.
              > > Ekankar. The remarkable thing about this is how Julian Johnson's book,
              > > The Path of the Masters, preceded Paul Twitchell's book, The Far
              > > Country, by at least three decades!
              > >
              > > Apparently then, Eckankar changed the spelling of a word, trademarked
              > > it, and later published it in a book. I believe this is somehow more
              > > than a paraphrase.
              > >
              >
            • etznab@aol.com
              I think a lot of people can overlook this stuff, thinking that whatever Paul Twitchell said/wrote must be the truth. Some people just might not care. Well,
              Message 6 of 24 , Sep 17, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                I think a lot of people can overlook this stuff, thinking that whatever
                Paul Twitchell said/wrote must be the truth. Some people just might not
                care. Well, it's reasonable to suspect this talent - for promotion,
                even when it means making things up, stretching the truth, or just
                plain spinning lies - was used to "create" the Eckankar mythos.

                myth

                1830, from Gk. mythos "speech, thought, story, myth," of unknown origin.

                Myths are "stories about divine beings, generally arranged in a
                coherent system; they are revered as true and sacred; they are endorsed
                by rulers and priests; and closely linked to religion. Once this link
                is broken, and the actors in the story are not regarded as gods but as
                human heroes, giants or fairies, it is no longer a myth but a folktale.
                Where the central actor is divine but the story is trivial ... the
                result is religious legend, not myth." [J. Simpson & S. Roud,
                "Dictionary of English Folklore," Oxford, 2000, p.254]

                General sense of "untrue story, rumor" is from 1840.

                http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=mythos&searchmode=none

                In other words, amid all the compilations and recycled material, etc.,
                context has been changed (in various places) when it comes to source. I
                wonder, could Paul Twitchell have created "Eckankar" and at the same
                time given the source for all of his material? I noticed Kirpal Singh
                and others were very good at citing references and sharing what
                quote/saying came from who. So if Paul Twitchell ever chose to use
                passages and paragraphs from books, Did he always feel obligated to
                provide that information?

                As a promoter, I suspect the person wants to give credit to whatever
                they're promoting and not give more credit to "other products" instead.
                It makes sense (to me) that Paul Twitchell would "paint the name
                Eckankar" over so much material he had read (in so many words). Not
                only this, but it even appears probable that Paul Twitchell took
                liberty to respell and redefine words according to fit them in a new,
                and growing, Eckankar philosophy. Not only words, but names too!

                How extensive the promotion and PR campaign that created contemporary
                Eckankar teaching? In so many ways, it seems this is the part that
                doesn't agree with people. Not unless they knew from the beginning that
                information was not necessarily accurate and in some places embellished.

                embellish

                mid-14c., "to render beautiful," from O.Fr. embelliss-, stem of
                embellir "make beautiful, ornament," from em- (see en- (1)) + bel
                "beautiful," from L. bellus (see bene-). Meaning "dress up (a
                narration) with fictitious matter" is from mid-15c. Related:
                Embellished; embellishing.

                http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=embellished&searchmode=none

                Reading through early Eckankar books I think common sense might tell a
                person that parts of the material was embellished. At the same time I
                also think people could naturally so much want the material to be true
                that they allow imagination to "make it so" and overrule common sense.

                Ever observe what happens when you're part of a group where countless
                individuals believe in things - through imagination - that aren't
                necessarily true? I mean, when you're one of the unbelievers and part
                of the minority who question whether so many imagined things are true?


                -----Original Message-----
                From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sat, Sep 17, 2011 2:14 am
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Dark Side of ECKankar" -
                And More!

                 
                Hello Etznab and All,
                This tells how Paul Twitchell
                was His Own Drum Beater:

                http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html

                What's interesting is that at age 27 (1935)
                Twitchell was saying that he had been
                to India (supposedly at age 15 to meet
                Rebazar for the first time, DOBTLEM).
                However, Klemp points out that Twitchell
                was doing another self-promotion, and
                was lying in order to get into Who's Who
                in Kentucky. Klemp states that Twitchell
                had never been all that far from home
                at age 27. Klemp seems to have stepped
                into a big pile of Twits mess. HK's
                statement contradicts what Twitchell
                revealed in Difficulties of Becoming the
                Living ECK Master circa July, 1971. This
                1971 date is, supposedly, long after Twitchell
                (the Mahanta) was was no longer "exaggerating"
                and "twisting facts." However, as Klemp
                has pointed out Twitchell was still lying
                and promoting his con up until his untimely
                and death in September, 1971.

                Prometheus

                etznab@...> wrote:
                >
                > Almost didn't see this response because the e-mail bounced.
                >
                > Umm ... about the self-promotion, whatever, people can read about
                some of the history here.
                >
                > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man.html
                >
                > Check out 4th paragraph of article entitled: Paul's Seal of
                Approval.
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello Etznab and All,
                > > It is interesting that Twitchell
                > > has his Rebazar character (the
                > > "Master" who initiated him)
                > > indicate that there were 8 Planes
                > > just as Radhasomi and Ruhani
                > > Satsang have listed in "The Path
                > > of the Masters." Since Kirpal
                > > Singh, of Ruhani Satsang, was
                > > Paul's real life Master for ten years
                > > it's no wonder that this dogma was
                > > influential in the design of Eckankar.
                > >
                > > Of course, Twitchell was constantly
                > > tweaking, revising, and masking his
                > > religious con as time went by.
                > >
                > > The Anami Lok (10th Plane where
                > > "Sugmad" resides) didn't appear until
                > > later. Did Rebazar simply forget to
                > > mention this as well as the "Mahanta?"
                > > Did RT think that Paul needed to be
                > > spoon-fed and wasn't ready for this
                > > advanced "spiritual" info? No, not really.
                > > According to Twitchell he had been
                > > given the 12th and "final initiation"
                > > (to become LEM) back in 1951 by
                > > Rebazar while on his "2nd" visit to
                > > India. See, the timeline is off for this
                > > ekplanation to be taken seriously as
                > > well.
                > >
                > > Therefore, there is no rational excuse
                > > for these inconsistencies except to
                > > admit that the "rascal" Twitchell was,
                > > once again, "exaggerating" and "twisting
                > > facts" as even Klemp has described
                > > and said of him. Klemp, years ago,
                > > had to admit that Twitchell was a self-
                > > promoter and did or said whatever
                > > he needed to do ("By Any Means Necessary")
                > > in order to get Eckankar off the ground.
                > >
                > > This is why Klemp, at first, had a
                > > difficult job of explaining Twitchell's
                > > inconsistencies and needed to keep
                > > Eckists confused, busy, and off-balance.
                > > Now, Eckists are so brainwashed that
                > > Klemp can say whatever in his simple
                > > minded redundant versions of feel-good
                > > New Age spirituality.
                > >
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > etznab wrote:
                > >
                > > One of Paul Twitchell's first reported journey's with Rebazar
                Tarzs
                > > mentioned eight planes, much like the Radhasoami scheme.
                Check the
                > > index section for Ocean of Love and Mercy in Dialogues with
                the Master.
                > >
                > > The Ocean of Love and Mercy was associated with the nameless
                region,
                > > [p. 170] and Nameless World [p.188]. In the chapter called
                THE FACE OF
                > > GOD, 6th paragraph, Paul Twitchell has Rebazar Tarzs saying:
                [Quoting]
                > > "You are in the nameless world. The light you see is the
                light of
                > > God so vastly brilliant in all its glory that human eyes
                could not look
                > > upon it. You are now the perfect atom, for this is the Ocean
                of Love
                > > and Mercy, the true home of the SUGMAD where all Souls return
                in time."
                > > (Dialogues with the Master,by Paul Twitchell, p. 191)
                > >
                > > Moreover, at bottom of p. 193 [SUGMAD speaking?] "Ye are in
                the House
                > > of the SUGMAD. The abode of abodes. The highest of heavens.
                Ye cannot
                > > go higher, and here ye, Soul, having become at-one-ment with
                my divine
                > > self, return to Its true self, ever ready with Its work in
                the divine
                > > cause!"
                > >
                > > Chapter sixteen (The Cosmic Worlds) of Dialogues with the
                Master, has
                > > Rebazar Tarzs saying about the various planes [quoting
                snippet]:
                > >
                > > "First, It becomes united with the very essence of Sat Nam in
                a
                > > mystic sense, and so becomes one with IT, partaking of all ITS
                > > attributes. It then advances to the three remaining regions.
                > > "Next is Alakh Lok, presided over by the Alakh Purusha, and
                after
                > > this is Agam Lok, presided over by Agam Purusha. Finally Soul
                reaches
                > > the end of Its journey, the region of the nameless ONE, or
                the SUGMAD,
                > > the supreme LORD of all that exists."
                > >
                > > http://www.mirrorh.com/dwtm.html
                > >
                > > Later on, in The Far Country, Rebazar Tarzs changes the
                description
                > > slightly:
                > >
                > > "First, the Tuza becomes united with the very essence of the
                Sat Nam in
                > > a mystical sense, and so, becomes a part of Him, partaking in
                all Sat
                > > Nam's marvelous attributes. Then the Tuza advances to the
                three
                > > remaining known planes.
                > >
                > > "First is the Alakh Lok, presided over by the Alakh Purusha,
                and
                > > after this is the Agam Lok plane presided over by the Agam
                Purusha, or
                > > lord. Finally Soul reaches the end of Its journey, the region
                of the
                > > nameless One, Advaita, the formless, that which is the first
                you know
                > > about the SUGMAD, the feeling or the understanding of the
                Divine.
                > >
                > > "Eventually you come to the SUGMAD in the vast worlds above."
                > >
                > > http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html
                > >
                > > Here again (Introduction to Eckankar), the subject is
                illustrated (by
                > > Paul Twitchell) slightly different.
                > >
                > > "Beyond this plane is the Alakh Lok plane, and then the Agam
                Lok.
                > > Finally after a succession of many planes, Soul reaches the
                end of its
                > > journey, the region of the nameless One, or the SUGMAD, the
                supreme
                > > lord of all that exists."
                > >
                > > http://www.mirrorh.com/itecpwPage2.html
                > >
                > > The earliest scheme of planes appears to indicate Sat Lok,
                Alak Lok,
                > > Agam Lok & Anami Lok - the latter apparently associated with
                Ocean of
                > > Love & Mercy. Strangely though, someone saw fit to slip
                mention of
                > > Hukikat Lok into p. 111 of Dialogues with the Master.
                > >
                > > In any case, notice how Dialogues with the Master,
                Introduction to
                > > Eckankar and The Far Country tend to describe the planes
                similarly, and
                > > in similar order. Notice also, how similar are certain
                sections from
                > > The Far Country with The Path of the Masters. Example:
                > >
                > > "In the literature of the sacred, this divine formless spirit
                is
                > > expressed by many names, such as, ECKANKAR, Nirankar, Akal,
                Nirala,
                > > Anami, Agam, Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Akashar,
                > > Paramakshar, Purusha." - The Far Country
                > >
                > > http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html
                > >
                > > "In the literature of the saints, God is expressed by many
                words, such
                > > as Soami, Ekankar, Nirankar, Radha Soami, Akal, Nirala,
                Anami, Agam,
                > > Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Hari Rai, Akshar,
                Parameshwar,
                > > Akshar Purush, etc." - The Path of the Masters
                > >
                > > http://www.mirrorh.com/potmnots.html
                > >
                > > Notice how the words Soami, Radha Soami & Hari Rai are absent
                from the
                > > Eckankar version. And where the Eckankar version has ECKANKAR
                vs.
                > > Ekankar. The remarkable thing about this is how Julian
                Johnson's book,
                > > The Path of the Masters, preceded Paul Twitchell's book, The
                Far
                > > Country, by at least three decades!
                > >
                > > Apparently then, Eckankar changed the spelling of a word,
                trademarked
                > > it, and later published it in a book. I believe this is
                somehow more
                > > than a paraphrase.
                > >
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Hello Etznab and All, It s true that most Eckists have turned a blind eye towards their religion. However, it s done via Klemp s subtle and not so subtle
                Message 7 of 24 , Sep 17, 2011
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                  Hello Etznab and All,
                  It's true that most Eckists have
                  turned a blind eye towards their
                  religion. However, it's done via
                  Klemp's subtle and not so subtle
                  intimidation tactics such as:

                  Going to the "inner" to have
                  one's questions answered...
                  this is what the more "advanced"
                  and "enlightened" Eckists do.

                  Using the Buddha quote of, "Is
                  it true, is it necessary, is it kind"
                  this I ask myself before I speak
                  my mind.

                  HK writing articles and giving
                  talks on the negativity of gossip
                  and how it hinders one's "spiritual"
                  growth.

                  Also, there's the unspoken knowledge
                  that those who ask too many questions,
                  especially "wrong" questions, will get
                  Eckists Black Listed on initiations or
                  to have them slowed down 3-5 years
                  (on average) longer than normal.

                  Plus, Eckankar's Higher Initiates
                  (5-7) are a very passive group
                  and don't want to question the
                  foundation of their religion because
                  things are going okay so why rock
                  the boat? Being an H.I. is an ego
                  trip and a security blanket too.

                  And, let's face it, most Eckists don't
                  have the time or inclination to research
                  the old, P.T., Eckankar texts. They've
                  read it all before so why go back and
                  read it with new eyes and a changed
                  consciousness? However, it does make
                  one wonder why they've allowed them-
                  selves to be shackled to HK's dogma
                  when it's all based upon Twitchell's
                  "compilation."

                  In PT's Eckankar Dictionary, Shariyat
                  One and HK's First Lexicon, they
                  tell about the first "root race" called
                  the "POLARIANS." Klemp must agree
                  with Twitchell on this dogmatic information
                  since he put it into his own Eckankar
                  Lexicon.

                  But, do Eckists really believe in the
                  Old Testament Christian Myth about
                  the Garden of Eden? Actually, no,
                  they don't! I've even read where
                  they've made fun of this. How ironic!
                  Twitchell not only states that the
                  Garden of Eden existed but gives
                  his own (revised) names of those
                  present. In the ECK version Adam
                  becomes "Adom" and Eve becomes
                  "Ede" (like in Eden) This is, of course,
                  a clear picture of how Twitchell created
                  Eckankar. He took certain words,
                  names, and information changed
                  the text and letters around, or added
                  and omitted letters, and made the
                  info his own.

                  What's really funny is that in defense
                  of Twitchell Klemp has claimed that
                  Paul "compiled" only the highest teachings
                  from around the world in order to
                  create the highest "spiritual" teaching
                  anywhere and at anytime. Why then,
                  did Twitchell use the Garden of Eden
                  myth, and create Adom and Ede?
                  Is this supposed to be the actual
                  account while the Christian version
                  is less accurate. This is how Eckists
                  rationalize and explain everything
                  (the truth) away. ECK is a facsimile
                  and everything else is a copy. But
                  this shows that all religions are
                  distorted and inaccurate copies.

                  It really should be embarrassing,
                  for Eckists, since this information
                  is listed in their first Holy Book
                  under Polarian race (check the
                  index for the page number).

                  Plus, let's face it. This Garden
                  of Eden myth is a non-evolutionary
                  belief. It was devised during
                  a time of ignorance and pre-science
                  in order to give a religious explanation
                  for creation. And, it's been revised
                  even by early Christianity because
                  Lillith was supposed to have been
                  Adam's first mate who was created
                  equally with him.

                  Later, the creation myth story was
                  changed so that Eve was created
                  from Adam's rib in order to make
                  her subservient to him... as Eckists
                  are to subservient to Klemp. Thus,
                  no female LEMs and even Mahantas
                  are permitted due to some hokey
                  negative atom ekplanation.


                  But, Eckists are in denial of the truth
                  as they continue to pretend they
                  are advanced Souls. The mind is
                  very powerful and that's why Eckankar
                  appears to work for Eckists. The
                  mind will give one the dreams
                  and "signs" that are programmed
                  into it via suggestion and expectation.
                  However, isn't this the modus
                  operandi of all religions? If one
                  just Googles "miracles" one can
                  see examples of faith and belief
                  that would put any Eckist to shame.

                  Therefore, why do Eckists not
                  see the truth? Is it that they
                  have tied up their camels, to
                  a fraudent belief, and now, trust
                  in a make believe God/Mahanta...
                  Klemp? It is the Easy Way!

                  Prometheus




                  etznab@... wrote:
                  I think a lot of people can overlook this stuff, thinking that whatever
                  Paul Twitchell said/wrote must be the truth. Some people just might not
                  care. Well, it's reasonable to suspect this talent - for promotion,
                  even when it means making things up, stretching the truth, or just
                  plain spinning lies - was used to "create" the Eckankar mythos.

                  myth

                  1830, from Gk. mythos "speech, thought, story, myth," of unknown origin.

                  Myths are "stories about divine beings, generally arranged in a
                  coherent system; they are revered as true and sacred; they are endorsed
                  by rulers and priests; and closely linked to religion. Once this link
                  is broken, and the actors in the story are not regarded as gods but as
                  human heroes, giants or fairies, it is no longer a myth but a folktale.
                  Where the central actor is divine but the story is trivial ... the
                  result is religious legend, not myth." [J. Simpson & S. Roud,
                  "Dictionary of English Folklore," Oxford, 2000, p.254]

                  General sense of "untrue story, rumor" is from 1840.

                  http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=mythos&searchmode=\
                  \
                  none

                  In other words, amid all the compilations and recycled material, etc.,
                  context has been changed (in various places) when it comes to source. I
                  wonder, could Paul Twitchell have created "Eckankar" and at the same
                  time given the source for all of his material? I noticed Kirpal Singh
                  and others were very good at citing references and sharing what
                  quote/saying came from who. So if Paul Twitchell ever chose to use
                  passages and paragraphs from books, Did he always feel obligated to
                  provide that information?

                  As a promoter, I suspect the person wants to give credit to whatever
                  they're promoting and not give more credit to "other products" instead.
                  It makes sense (to me) that Paul Twitchell would "paint the name
                  Eckankar" over so much material he had read (in so many words). Not
                  only this, but it even appears probable that Paul Twitchell took
                  liberty to respell and redefine words according to fit them in a new,
                  and growing, Eckankar philosophy. Not only words, but names too!

                  How extensive the promotion and PR campaign that created contemporary
                  Eckankar teaching? In so many ways, it seems this is the part that
                  doesn't agree with people. Not unless they knew from the beginning that
                  information was not necessarily accurate and in some places embellished.

                  embellish

                  mid-14c., "to render beautiful," from O.Fr. embelliss-, stem of
                  embellir "make beautiful, ornament," from em- (see en- (1)) + bel
                  "beautiful," from L. bellus (see bene-). Meaning "dress up (a
                  narration) with fictitious matter" is from mid-15c. Related:
                  Embellished; embellishing.

                  http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=embellished&search\
                  \
                  mode=none

                  Reading through early Eckankar books I think common sense might tell a
                  person that parts of the material was embellished. At the same time I
                  also think people could naturally so much want the material to be true
                  that they allow imagination to "make it so" and overrule common sense.

                  Ever observe what happens when you're part of a group where countless
                  individuals believe in things - through imagination - that aren't
                  necessarily true? I mean, when you're one of the unbelievers and part
                  of the minority who question whether so many imagined things are true?


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                  <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sat, Sep 17, 2011 2:14 am
                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Dark Side of ECKankar" -
                  And More!

                  Â
                  Hello Etznab and All,
                  This tells how Paul Twitchell
                  was His Own Drum Beater:

                  http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html

                  What's interesting is that at age 27 (1935)
                  Twitchell was saying that he had been
                  to India (supposedly at age 15 to meet
                  Rebazar for the first time, DOBTLEM).
                  However, Klemp points out that Twitchell
                  was doing another self-promotion, and
                  was lying in order to get into Who's Who
                  in Kentucky. Klemp states that Twitchell
                  had never been all that far from home
                  at age 27. Klemp seems to have stepped
                  into a big pile of Twits mess. HK's
                  statement contradicts what Twitchell
                  revealed in Difficulties of Becoming the
                  Living ECK Master circa July, 1971. This
                  1971 date is, supposedly, long after Twitchell
                  (the Mahanta) was was no longer "exaggerating"
                  and "twisting facts." However, as Klemp
                  has pointed out Twitchell was still lying
                  and promoting his con up until his untimely
                  and death in September, 1971.

                  Prometheus

                  etznab@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Almost didn't see this response because the e-mail bounced.
                  >
                  > Umm ... about the self-promotion, whatever, people can read about
                  some of the history here.
                  >
                  > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man.html
                  >
                  > Check out 4th paragraph of article entitled: Paul's Seal of
                  Approval.
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                  "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello Etznab and All,
                  > > It is interesting that Twitchell
                  > > has his Rebazar character (the
                  > > "Master" who initiated him)
                  > > indicate that there were 8 Planes
                  > > just as Radhasomi and Ruhani
                  > > Satsang have listed in "The Path
                  > > of the Masters." Since Kirpal
                  > > Singh, of Ruhani Satsang, was
                  > > Paul's real life Master for ten years
                  > > it's no wonder that this dogma was
                  > > influential in the design of Eckankar.
                  > >
                  > > Of course, Twitchell was constantly
                  > > tweaking, revising, and masking his
                  > > religious con as time went by.
                  > >
                  > > The Anami Lok (10th Plane where
                  > > "Sugmad" resides) didn't appear until
                  > > later. Did Rebazar simply forget to
                  > > mention this as well as the "Mahanta?"
                  > > Did RT think that Paul needed to be
                  > > spoon-fed and wasn't ready for this
                  > > advanced "spiritual" info? No, not really.
                  > > According to Twitchell he had been
                  > > given the 12th and "final initiation"
                  > > (to become LEM) back in 1951 by
                  > > Rebazar while on his "2nd" visit to
                  > > India. See, the timeline is off for this
                  > > ekplanation to be taken seriously as
                  > > well.
                  > >
                  > > Therefore, there is no rational excuse
                  > > for these inconsistencies except to
                  > > admit that the "rascal" Twitchell was,
                  > > once again, "exaggerating" and "twisting
                  > > facts" as even Klemp has described
                  > > and said of him. Klemp, years ago,
                  > > had to admit that Twitchell was a self-
                  > > promoter and did or said whatever
                  > > he needed to do ("By Any Means Necessary")
                  > > in order to get Eckankar off the ground.
                  > >
                  > > This is why Klemp, at first, had a
                  > > difficult job of explaining Twitchell's
                  > > inconsistencies and needed to keep
                  > > Eckists confused, busy, and off-balance.
                  > > Now, Eckists are so brainwashed that
                  > > Klemp can say whatever in his simple
                  > > minded redundant versions of feel-good
                  > > New Age spirituality.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > etznab wrote:
                  > >
                  > > One of Paul Twitchell's first reported journey's with Rebazar
                  Tarzs
                  > > mentioned eight planes, much like the Radhasoami scheme.
                  Check the
                  > > index section for Ocean of Love and Mercy in Dialogues with
                  the Master.
                  > >
                  > > The Ocean of Love and Mercy was associated with the nameless
                  region,
                  > > [p. 170] and Nameless World [p.188]. In the chapter called
                  THE FACE OF
                  > > GOD, 6th paragraph, Paul Twitchell has Rebazar Tarzs saying:
                  [Quoting]
                  > > "You are in the nameless world. The light you see is the
                  light of
                  > > God so vastly brilliant in all its glory that human eyes
                  could not look
                  > > upon it. You are now the perfect atom, for this is the Ocean
                  of Love
                  > > and Mercy, the true home of the SUGMAD where all Souls return
                  in time."
                  > > (Dialogues with the Master,by Paul Twitchell, p. 191)
                  > >
                  > > Moreover, at bottom of p. 193 [SUGMAD speaking?] "Ye are in
                  the House
                  > > of the SUGMAD. The abode of abodes. The highest of heavens.
                  Ye cannot
                  > > go higher, and here ye, Soul, having become at-one-ment with
                  my divine
                  > > self, return to Its true self, ever ready with Its work in
                  the divine
                  > > cause!"
                  > >
                  > > Chapter sixteen (The Cosmic Worlds) of Dialogues with the
                  Master, has
                  > > Rebazar Tarzs saying about the various planes [quoting
                  snippet]:
                  > >
                  > > "First, It becomes united with the very essence of Sat Nam in
                  a
                  > > mystic sense, and so becomes one with IT, partaking of all ITS
                  > > attributes. It then advances to the three remaining regions.
                  > > "Next is Alakh Lok, presided over by the Alakh Purusha, and
                  after
                  > > this is Agam Lok, presided over by Agam Purusha. Finally Soul
                  reaches
                  > > the end of Its journey, the region of the nameless ONE, or
                  the SUGMAD,
                  > > the supreme LORD of all that exists."
                  > >
                  > > http://www.mirrorh.com/dwtm.html
                  > >
                  > > Later on, in The Far Country, Rebazar Tarzs changes the
                  description
                  > > slightly:
                  > >
                  > > "First, the Tuza becomes united with the very essence of the
                  Sat Nam in
                  > > a mystical sense, and so, becomes a part of Him, partaking in
                  all Sat
                  > > Nam's marvelous attributes. Then the Tuza advances to the
                  three
                  > > remaining known planes.
                  > >
                  > > "First is the Alakh Lok, presided over by the Alakh Purusha,
                  and
                  > > after this is the Agam Lok plane presided over by the Agam
                  Purusha, or
                  > > lord. Finally Soul reaches the end of Its journey, the region
                  of the
                  > > nameless One, Advaita, the formless, that which is the first
                  you know
                  > > about the SUGMAD, the feeling or the understanding of the
                  Divine.
                  > >
                  > > "Eventually you come to the SUGMAD in the vast worlds above."
                  > >
                  > > http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html
                  > >
                  > > Here again (Introduction to Eckankar), the subject is
                  illustrated (by
                  > > Paul Twitchell) slightly different.
                  > >
                  > > "Beyond this plane is the Alakh Lok plane, and then the Agam
                  Lok.
                  > > Finally after a succession of many planes, Soul reaches the
                  end of its
                  > > journey, the region of the nameless One, or the SUGMAD, the
                  supreme
                  > > lord of all that exists."
                  > >
                  > > http://www.mirrorh.com/itecpwPage2.html
                  > >
                  > > The earliest scheme of planes appears to indicate Sat Lok,
                  Alak Lok,
                  > > Agam Lok & Anami Lok - the latter apparently associated with
                  Ocean of
                  > > Love & Mercy. Strangely though, someone saw fit to slip
                  mention of
                  > > Hukikat Lok into p. 111 of Dialogues with the Master.
                  > >
                  > > In any case, notice how Dialogues with the Master,
                  Introduction to
                  > > Eckankar and The Far Country tend to describe the planes
                  similarly, and
                  > > in similar order. Notice also, how similar are certain
                  sections from
                  > > The Far Country with The Path of the Masters. Example:
                  > >
                  > > "In the literature of the sacred, this divine formless spirit
                  is
                  > > expressed by many names, such as, ECKANKAR, Nirankar, Akal,
                  Nirala,
                  > > Anami, Agam, Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Akashar,
                  > > Paramakshar, Purusha." - The Far Country
                  > >
                  > > http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html
                  > >
                  > > "In the literature of the saints, God is expressed by many
                  words, such
                  > > as Soami, Ekankar, Nirankar, Radha Soami, Akal, Nirala,
                  Anami, Agam,
                  > > Alakh, Sat Purush, Prabhu, Prabhswami, Hari Rai, Akshar,
                  Parameshwar,
                  > > Akshar Purush, etc." - The Path of the Masters
                  > >
                  > > http://www.mirrorh.com/potmnots.html
                  > >
                  > > Notice how the words Soami, Radha Soami & Hari Rai are absent
                  from the
                  > > Eckankar version. And where the Eckankar version has ECKANKAR
                  vs.
                  > > Ekankar. The remarkable thing about this is how Julian
                  Johnson's book,
                  > > The Path of the Masters, preceded Paul Twitchell's book, The
                  Far
                  > > Country, by at least three decades!
                  > >
                  > > Apparently then, Eckankar changed the spelling of a word,
                  trademarked
                  > > it, and later published it in a book. I believe this is
                  somehow more
                  > > than a paraphrase.
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