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Re: The Marman's take on Patti Simpson Rivinus

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Austinatma, Thanks again for sharing your impressions and experiences. Please feel free to share more insights. Prometheus austinatma wrote: I found
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 29, 2011
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      Hello Austinatma,
      Thanks again for sharing
      your impressions and
      experiences. Please feel
      free to share more insights.

      Prometheus

      austinatma wrote:
      I found myself a bit conflicted reading this Doug Marman piece.

      There's a rhythm and a cadence to the way Doug writes about Eckankar that has driven me up the wall for years. He's a decent writer and all, but there are a priori, as well as "casteneda-like" cornerstones he uses that get on my liberated nerves.

      I read about a person I respected and knew (not well), through that ever present lens of the true believer. If Doug's typically mild writing bothers me you can imagine my allergic reaction to the party line rhetoric that seems to be the adhesive of the Eckankar religion!

      I took a gradual weaning off approach, followed by simple decompression from more than 30 years of involvement with Eckankar. I'm sure my sense of never quite being able to "swallow" the groupthink or doublespeak is not unusual with people who escape the subtle opiated state of a religion. When I read something like Marman's piece it brings back a tone and an a state of consciousness that is central to why getting out of Eckankar was the best decision possible. And yet it isn't easy to explain what that tone and state is that builds up like a fog till you can't even see the top of the bridge ;-). There are a many reasons for people to doubt themself when they question why a semingly gentle, sweet, memorial of a good person stirs up cult repression vibes. And even stranger that Patti was someone who, as Doug says in his piece specialized in encouraging people to be themselves. Of course, what choice do we have ;-).

      The closest I can come to describing the vibe or aura, is to say there is a rhythm of grandiosity with a backbeat of narcissism to the way Doug hints at grander, large scale plans that could only be known by certain select people who's role in life tended to be fed by the way people accepted or thought about grand scale plans -- with them at the center of those plans. Or reporting on those events in a way that seems to explain things to people who might not otherwise understand. This while writing about Patti's walking away from a lead role in a cage for the walk on role in Vermont. She purportedly broke off contact with the Eckankar followers and started over again. Nice, however to my way of thinking my view of Patti had to come down to earth (if Doug's account is accurate) because Patti may have been more involved with the 'afterglow' of Eckankar in the telling of Paul's story.

      I liked Patti and her naturalness in speaking and writing about her experience. She performed a wedding ceremony for me once upon a time. I liked how later waves of Eckists couldn't really tell if she was a card carrying member or not and it kept them guessing.

      The other day I watched an interview with Robert Jay Lifton , who must be in his 80's now. An unassuming, lucid, and insightful man who didn't need to turn himself into a guru or man of power to share his insights and ideas with the world. There are many others like him, and far less well know. What a difference from listening to someone who appears to indirectly feed off of people feeling special because they have learned to speak of their experiences in a certain way, and are involved with a group or guru who has special knowledge of a grand plan.

      Eh, maybe I was just in a bad mood when I read Doug's piece. Second thought, no, that wasn't it.

      What did any of you think?

      AA
    • dianastanley43
      Hi guys havn t talked in a while. I knew Patti since 1971. She was a good friend. when I knew patti she was a bit of an iconoclast. Her and milli more kept me
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 31, 2011
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        Hi guys havn't talked in a while. I knew Patti since 1971. She was a good friend. when I knew patti she was a bit of an iconoclast. Her and milli more kept me in stiches they would play tricks on Paul. He called milli his 16 year old. He could'nt get her to stop smoking, I was told she finally did,or not!
        I am always sad to see an old friend go. At my age that seems to be more frequent.
        Diana Stanley

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Austinatma,
        > Thanks again for sharing
        > your impressions and
        > experiences. Please feel
        > free to share more insights.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > austinatma wrote:
        > I found myself a bit conflicted reading this Doug Marman piece.
        >
        > There's a rhythm and a cadence to the way Doug writes about Eckankar that has driven me up the wall for years. He's a decent writer and all, but there are a priori, as well as "casteneda-like" cornerstones he uses that get on my liberated nerves.
        >
        > I read about a person I respected and knew (not well), through that ever present lens of the true believer. If Doug's typically mild writing bothers me you can imagine my allergic reaction to the party line rhetoric that seems to be the adhesive of the Eckankar religion!
        >
        > I took a gradual weaning off approach, followed by simple decompression from more than 30 years of involvement with Eckankar. I'm sure my sense of never quite being able to "swallow" the groupthink or doublespeak is not unusual with people who escape the subtle opiated state of a religion. When I read something like Marman's piece it brings back a tone and an a state of consciousness that is central to why getting out of Eckankar was the best decision possible. And yet it isn't easy to explain what that tone and state is that builds up like a fog till you can't even see the top of the bridge ;-). There are a many reasons for people to doubt themself when they question why a semingly gentle, sweet, memorial of a good person stirs up cult repression vibes. And even stranger that Patti was someone who, as Doug says in his piece specialized in encouraging people to be themselves. Of course, what choice do we have ;-).
        >
        > The closest I can come to describing the vibe or aura, is to say there is a rhythm of grandiosity with a backbeat of narcissism to the way Doug hints at grander, large scale plans that could only be known by certain select people who's role in life tended to be fed by the way people accepted or thought about grand scale plans -- with them at the center of those plans. Or reporting on those events in a way that seems to explain things to people who might not otherwise understand. This while writing about Patti's walking away from a lead role in a cage for the walk on role in Vermont. She purportedly broke off contact with the Eckankar followers and started over again. Nice, however to my way of thinking my view of Patti had to come down to earth (if Doug's account is accurate) because Patti may have been more involved with the 'afterglow' of Eckankar in the telling of Paul's story.
        >
        > I liked Patti and her naturalness in speaking and writing about her experience. She performed a wedding ceremony for me once upon a time. I liked how later waves of Eckists couldn't really tell if she was a card carrying member or not and it kept them guessing.
        >
        > The other day I watched an interview with Robert Jay Lifton , who must be in his 80's now. An unassuming, lucid, and insightful man who didn't need to turn himself into a guru or man of power to share his insights and ideas with the world. There are many others like him, and far less well know. What a difference from listening to someone who appears to indirectly feed off of people feeling special because they have learned to speak of their experiences in a certain way, and are involved with a group or guru who has special knowledge of a grand plan.
        >
        > Eh, maybe I was just in a bad mood when I read Doug's piece. Second thought, no, that wasn't it.
        >
        > What did any of you think?
        >
        > AA
        >
      • etznab@aol.com
        What do you mean kept you in stiches? ... From: dianastanley43 To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 31, 2011
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          What do you mean kept you in stiches?

          -----Original Message-----
          From: dianastanley43 <dianastanley43@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
          <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:54 am
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Marman's take on Patti
          Simpson Rivinus

           
          Hi guys havn't talked in a while. I knew Patti since 1971. She was a
          good friend. when I knew patti she was a bit of an iconoclast. Her and
          milli more kept me in stiches they would play tricks on Paul. He called
          milli his 16 year old. He could'nt get her to stop smoking, I was told
          she finally did,or not!
          I am always sad to see an old friend go. At my age that seems to be
          more frequent.
          Diana Stanley

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Austinatma,
          > Thanks again for sharing
          > your impressions and
          > experiences. Please feel
          > free to share more insights.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > austinatma wrote:
          > I found myself a bit conflicted reading this Doug Marman piece.
          >
          > There's a rhythm and a cadence to the way Doug writes about
          Eckankar that has driven me up the wall for years. He's a decent
          writer and all, but there are a priori, as well as "casteneda-like"
          cornerstones he uses that get on my liberated nerves.
          >
          > I read about a person I respected and knew (not well), through
          that ever present lens of the true believer. If Doug's typically mild
          writing bothers me you can imagine my allergic reaction to the party
          line rhetoric that seems to be the adhesive of the Eckankar religion!
          >
          > I took a gradual weaning off approach, followed by simple
          decompression from more than 30 years of involvement with Eckankar.
          I'm sure my sense of never quite being able to "swallow" the groupthink
          or doublespeak is not unusual with people who escape the subtle opiated
          state of a religion. When I read something like Marman's piece it
          brings back a tone and an a state of consciousness that is central to
          why getting out of Eckankar was the best decision possible. And yet it
          isn't easy to explain what that tone and state is that builds up like a
          fog till you can't even see the top of the bridge ;-). There are a
          many reasons for people to doubt themself when they question why a
          semingly gentle, sweet, memorial of a good person stirs up cult
          repression vibes. And even stranger that Patti was someone who, as
          Doug says in his piece specialized in encouraging people to be
          themselves. Of course, what choice do we have ;-).
          >
          > The closest I can come to describing the vibe or aura, is to say
          there is a rhythm of grandiosity with a backbeat of narcissism to the
          way Doug hints at grander, large scale plans that could only be known
          by certain select people who's role in life tended to be fed by the way
          people accepted or thought about grand scale plans -- with them at the
          center of those plans. Or reporting on those events in a way that
          seems to explain things to people who might not otherwise understand.
          This while writing about Patti's walking away from a lead role in a
          cage for the walk on role in Vermont. She purportedly broke off
          contact with the Eckankar followers and started over again. Nice,
          however to my way of thinking my view of Patti had to come down to
          earth (if Doug's account is accurate) because Patti may have been more
          involved with the 'afterglow' of Eckankar in the telling of Paul's
          story.
          >
          > I liked Patti and her naturalness in speaking and writing about
          her experience. She performed a wedding ceremony for me once upon a
          time. I liked how later waves of Eckists couldn't really tell if she
          was a card carrying member or not and it kept them guessing.
          >
          > The other day I watched an interview with Robert Jay Lifton , who
          must be in his 80's now. An unassuming, lucid, and insightful man who
          didn't need to turn himself into a guru or man of power to share his
          insights and ideas with the world. There are many others like him, and
          far less well know. What a difference from listening to someone who
          appears to indirectly feed off of people feeling special because they
          have learned to speak of their experiences in a certain way, and are
          involved with a group or guru who has special knowledge of a grand
          plan.
          >
          > Eh, maybe I was just in a bad mood when I read Doug's piece.
          Second thought, no, that wasn't it.
          >
          > What did any of you think?
          >
          > AA
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Etznab, That would be interesting to know how Patti and Millie kept Diane laughing and in stitches over Paul. I remember that Patti and Gail would
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 31, 2011
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            Hello Etznab,
            That would be interesting to know
            how Patti and Millie kept Diane
            laughing and "in stitches" over
            Paul.

            I remember that Patti and Gail
            would laugh when someone asked
            PT his date of birth. They thought
            it was funny that he made such
            a big deal of it. Actually, the joke
            was on them since they believed
            Paul was 19 years older than Gail
            versus 33!

            As far as that Navy story in
            "Difficulties of Becoming the
            Living ECK Master"... Paul was
            still exaggerating and joking in
            June of 1971 while recounting
            this story. I'm thinking he meant
            swimming so fast that it was
            "as if" he was running on water
            to escape a shark but changed
            the story to equal what Jesus
            did... except Jesus didn't "walk
            on water" because he feared
            getting eaten by a shark! LOL!

            Prometheus

            etznab@... wrote:

            What do you mean kept you in stiches?

            Paul wrote a story about himself walking
            (or was that running?) on water. It was
            during his Navy days, I believe. Apparently,
            there were even witnesses :)


            dianastanley wrote

            Hi guys havn't talked in a while.
            I knew Patti since 1971. She was a
            good friend. when I knew patti she
            was a bit of an iconoclast. Her and
            milli more kept me in stiches they
            would play tricks on Paul. He called
            milli his 16 year old. He could'nt get
            her to stop smoking, I was told
            she finally did,or not!

            I am always sad to see an old friend
            go. At my age that seems to be
            more frequent.

            Diana Stanley
          • dianastanley43
            Paul used to hang a large sausage outside his window in winter at seminars,to keep it cold. They cut the sausage off and tied one of his books to the string.
            Message 5 of 8 , Aug 1, 2011
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              Paul used to hang a large sausage outside his window in winter at seminars,to keep it cold. They cut the sausage off and tied one of his books to the string. When he pulled it up you can imagin his suprise!! He new who did it of course. but they never admited it.
              They would do silly things like that. He never could get Millie to mind,she would just go on her way saying this and that. That was over 30 yrs ago so my memory is'nt as great as it used to be.
              Diana Stanley

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
              >
              > What do you mean kept you in stiches?
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: dianastanley43 <dianastanley43@...>
              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
              > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:54 am
              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Marman's take on Patti
              > Simpson Rivinus
              >
              >  
              > Hi guys havn't talked in a while. I knew Patti since 1971. She was a
              > good friend. when I knew patti she was a bit of an iconoclast. Her and
              > milli more kept me in stiches they would play tricks on Paul. He called
              > milli his 16 year old. He could'nt get her to stop smoking, I was told
              > she finally did,or not!
              > I am always sad to see an old friend go. At my age that seems to be
              > more frequent.
              > Diana Stanley
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              > prometheus_973@ wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Austinatma,
              > > Thanks again for sharing
              > > your impressions and
              > > experiences. Please feel
              > > free to share more insights.
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > > austinatma wrote:
              > > I found myself a bit conflicted reading this Doug Marman piece.
              > >
              > > There's a rhythm and a cadence to the way Doug writes about
              > Eckankar that has driven me up the wall for years. He's a decent
              > writer and all, but there are a priori, as well as "casteneda-like"
              > cornerstones he uses that get on my liberated nerves.
              > >
              > > I read about a person I respected and knew (not well), through
              > that ever present lens of the true believer. If Doug's typically mild
              > writing bothers me you can imagine my allergic reaction to the party
              > line rhetoric that seems to be the adhesive of the Eckankar religion!
              > >
              > > I took a gradual weaning off approach, followed by simple
              > decompression from more than 30 years of involvement with Eckankar.
              > I'm sure my sense of never quite being able to "swallow" the groupthink
              > or doublespeak is not unusual with people who escape the subtle opiated
              > state of a religion. When I read something like Marman's piece it
              > brings back a tone and an a state of consciousness that is central to
              > why getting out of Eckankar was the best decision possible. And yet it
              > isn't easy to explain what that tone and state is that builds up like a
              > fog till you can't even see the top of the bridge ;-). There are a
              > many reasons for people to doubt themself when they question why a
              > semingly gentle, sweet, memorial of a good person stirs up cult
              > repression vibes. And even stranger that Patti was someone who, as
              > Doug says in his piece specialized in encouraging people to be
              > themselves. Of course, what choice do we have ;-).
              > >
              > > The closest I can come to describing the vibe or aura, is to say
              > there is a rhythm of grandiosity with a backbeat of narcissism to the
              > way Doug hints at grander, large scale plans that could only be known
              > by certain select people who's role in life tended to be fed by the way
              > people accepted or thought about grand scale plans -- with them at the
              > center of those plans. Or reporting on those events in a way that
              > seems to explain things to people who might not otherwise understand.
              > This while writing about Patti's walking away from a lead role in a
              > cage for the walk on role in Vermont. She purportedly broke off
              > contact with the Eckankar followers and started over again. Nice,
              > however to my way of thinking my view of Patti had to come down to
              > earth (if Doug's account is accurate) because Patti may have been more
              > involved with the 'afterglow' of Eckankar in the telling of Paul's
              > story.
              > >
              > > I liked Patti and her naturalness in speaking and writing about
              > her experience. She performed a wedding ceremony for me once upon a
              > time. I liked how later waves of Eckists couldn't really tell if she
              > was a card carrying member or not and it kept them guessing.
              > >
              > > The other day I watched an interview with Robert Jay Lifton , who
              > must be in his 80's now. An unassuming, lucid, and insightful man who
              > didn't need to turn himself into a guru or man of power to share his
              > insights and ideas with the world. There are many others like him, and
              > far less well know. What a difference from listening to someone who
              > appears to indirectly feed off of people feeling special because they
              > have learned to speak of their experiences in a certain way, and are
              > involved with a group or guru who has special knowledge of a grand
              > plan.
              > >
              > > Eh, maybe I was just in a bad mood when I read Doug's piece.
              > Second thought, no, that wasn't it.
              > >
              > > What did any of you think?
              > >
              > > AA
              > >
              >
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