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Re: ECKists Have Lowered Standards With Klemp

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  • etznab18
    Quoting: ... even the lifetime memberships have to be renewed every year. What happens if that ECKankar membership isn t renewed? Even a 35 or 40 year 7th
    Message 1 of 26 , Jul 28, 2011
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      Quoting:

      ... even the lifetime memberships have to be renewed every year. What happens if that ECKankar membership isn't renewed? Even a 35 or 40 year 7th Initiate will lose initiations if their membership lapses!
      Why is that? Where's the "inner" connection?

      *********

      About the lifetime memberships, is that true? No renewal, no membership?

      I'm wondering if the same applies as with other memberships. Where one can go inactive (have a "rest period") for up to five years but, without renewal, they eventually become non-members.

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > Back in 1981 I was one of many who
      > welcomed a change in ECK Leadership,
      > actually, it was nice to think we would,
      > now, have two ECK Masters!
      >
      > Klemp was somewhat of an embarrassment,
      > at first, because he looked like a wimp and
      > had no charisma. Eventually, he grew on us.
      >
      > However, sometime around 1990 things,
      > for me, started to change. I noticed more
      > and more redundancy, and those simple
      > minded one dimensional stories started
      > to bring back that initial embarrassment
      > I experienced back in 1981. Except now
      > the embarrassment was with Klemp's
      > words and level of communication.
      >
      > True, there were those building projects
      > and all of those books he was writing and
      > all of those leadership trainings and intros
      > and Regional seminars we had to plan and
      > those local EK centers we had to try to keep
      > open while planning the monthly EWS and
      > Satsang classes and book discussions and
      > roundtables, etc. The distractions continue!
      > But, when one focuses upon "spiritual growth"
      > all chelas really have are two things- their
      > initiations and their imaginations.
      >
      > Eventually, after many years, most ECK leaders
      > begin to question things (silently). Unfortunately,
      > many are caught up in playing a role for both
      > themselves and others. Ego wants to be recognized
      > and needs power and a social environment.
      > ECKankar has become a very comfortable
      > religion, especially, for the 7th initiates.
      >
      > 7ths have hit the glass ceiling and most have
      > accepted that they won't be getting an 8th (on
      > the outer). Although, the Master's 4 Discourse,
      > Lesson 3 states that 9ths need to have the third
      > and final stage for that initiation on the outer
      > as confirmation many 7ths see themselves as
      > ECK Masters without the outer confirmation
      > of a pink slip. They delude themselves on an
      > ongoing basis. Many ECKists have become
      > blind and closed minded in order to protect
      > themselves from the truth. They need to do
      > this in order to have religion work for them.
      >
      > Other H.I.s have just lowered their standards
      > and expectations. They've become complacent,
      > but still have some hope, faith, and belief that
      > what they originally bought into, years ago, is
      > still the same, or at least as valid. Yet, if these
      > chelas take a long hard look at the real proof
      > for years and years of training they will see
      > that they really have nothing except a number
      > on a membership card. And, that's a membership
      > that has to be renewed every year... even the
      > lifetime memberships have to be renewed every
      > year. What happens if that ECKankar membership
      > isn't renewed? Even a 35 or 40 year 7th Initiate
      > will lose initiations if their membership lapses!
      > Why is that? Where's the "inner" connection?
      >
      > Klemp never holds up his end of the bargain
      > does he? He never takes responsibility for
      > anything bad, but seems to like credit for
      > the good. Where have we seen this before?
      > Maybe in politics? But, ECKankar is a religion.
      > It's more than just a classification for Non-Profit
      > Tax Exempt status... it's a religion like any
      > other lower plane teaching.
      >
      > HK is supposed to protect and serve his chelas,
      > isn't he? Hmmmm, I'm not so sure that HK's
      > ever stated that his job is to "serve" his chelas.
      > But, where is that protection from disease?
      > With Klemp it seems to be a one-way street.
      > Klemp does nothing except write and lecture
      > on redundant and even stupid subjects, or
      > fragmented nonsense once or twice a year.
      > When HK is supposed to be the "highest
      > consciousness anywhere" why have ECKists
      > lowered their standards?
      >
      > I think that the lowering of standards was
      > a gradual process for EK chelas, and Klemp
      > has overstayed his time as LEM by about 15
      > years! But, nobody can do anything about it!
      > Klemp's taken all power away from the EK Board
      > and has created a different kind of ECKankar
      > based around himself, his old Christian religion
      > and upon his opinions.
      >
      > Klemp's consciousness is not in the least "high."
      > What one sees and hears is what one really gets!
      > Sure, it helps to "imagine" more, but how long
      > can one fool oneself? With some it's Forever!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > etznab wrote:
      > Liska,
      >
      > Perhaps this is the dilema facing most forms
      > of organized religion. Making those "imperfect
      > outer teachings" more perfect and honest.
      >
      > Going back to that Doug Marman quote in
      > Chap. Eleven of Dialogue in the Age of Criticism.
      >
      > http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Eleven.htm
      >
      > where the quote
      >
      > "In other words, Paul cast the material in the form
      > of a dialogue with an ECK Master because, quite
      > simply, he felt it was a better way of portraying the
      > truths he was trying to share..."
      >
      > appears as the eigth paragraph in the response by
      > Doug Marman to David Lane. Look at the previous
      > seven paragraphs by Doug.
      >
      > Was it some kind of "default" tactic do you think?
      >
      > Look at David's question which preceded all that.
      >
      > David seemed (IMO) to be of the opinion there,
      > that Paul was misleading his reading audience
      > because he used the words of other writers for
      > some of the "dialogues by Rebazar Tarzs". That
      > was my impression of it.
      >
      > I've asked the same "basic" question myself"
      > "Why not have Rebazar's REAL dialogues?" as
      > David asked there? [My particular question was
      > more along the lines of: Why not have the REAL
      > Rebazar Tarzs?] And I also asked myself what
      > does it mean, what does it suggest/imply that
      > words from books by other authors were used to
      > "animate" Rebazar Tarzs? In my experience, it
      > seemed that this was a sensitive topic.
      >
      > Years ago I liked to think that Eckankar could
      > really make history and come out on top if only
      > it would clarify some of its dogma in context to
      > actual truth. It would be a first among religions
      > and a shining example to the rest of the world
      > if it did this. That was my opinion at the time.
      >
      > Harold appeared to move in that direction years
      > ago after he gave a long talk about Paul Twitchell,
      > after which he said (transcript version):
      >
      > ".... Paradoxical as it may seem, my point in bring-
      > ing out all of this has been to strengthen your faith
      > in the Mahantaâ€"but not at the expense of making
      > a god out of the Mahanta's vehicle, which is the Living
      > ECK Master. It's a price we cannot afford to pay. As
      > soon as we set someone above us, in potential or in
      > fact, we have committed a crime against ourselves:
      > We have limited the opportunity for our own unfold-
      > ment. ...."
      >
      > [Based on: Article (The Real Foundation), by Harold
      > Klemp - see link]
      >
      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html#ideal%c3%82
      >
      > It's not so difficult for me to see where others who
      > have questions are coming from. And I know what it
      > is like (from experience) to try and ask some of the
      > more sensitive questions about religious history my-
      > self. It seems at times that it just isn't important to
      > everybody else - the questions one might have. Or
      > that others don't want to "go there".
      >
      > So much for that. I believe that part of a spiritual
      > path is to become more of an individual and not be
      > like some form of Borg drone, where your thinking
      > and thoughts are the collective thoughts of a group
      > of others. (Some with which you wouldn't agree as
      > an individual having a mind and conscience of your
      > own).
      >
      > It's not just a matter of What would happen to
      > Eckankar if .... It's also a matter of people not
      > knowing how to deal with the matter in the first
      > place! (The matter of being ignorant when your
      > followers expect you to be all-knowing and God-
      > like.)
      >
      > How long do you think religion and spiritual
      > paths have been subject to "organization" and
      > founded on incomplete, missing, mythical &
      > legendary history, etc., etc.? Hundreds, even
      > thousands of years, and still the actual truths
      > continue to evade millions of people because
      > the authorities are basing their information on
      > the information of others, based on others &
      > others ... and others ... and others.
      >
      > If you ask me, many truths were lost a long
      > time ago. Some intentionally covered up and
      > labeled forbidden & taboo. Filling the gap are
      > people today who claim to know the truth be-
      > cause that is what a spiritual teacher/ master
      > is supposed to be, apparently. So the priests
      > and heads of religions officiate church dogma
      > for the others on a lower level of the hierarchy
      > it seems. Challenge that hierarchy, ask it to
      > clarify some of the more gross contradictions,
      > ask the sensitive questions and see where it
      > gets you. IMO, it will sometimes lead to the
      > truth - that the so-called hierarchy is no more
      > "God" than is the L.E.M., or the "Mahanta's
      > vehicle". IMHO.
      >
      > Etznab
      >
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