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Re: Klemp Has A 3rd Initiate Instruct H.I.s

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Non eckster and All, I agree with your assessment of African EK chelas. There are a lot of old superstitions, tribalism, animalism, a belief in magic,
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 25, 2011
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      Hello Non eckster and All,
      I agree with your assessment
      of African EK chelas. There
      are a lot of old superstitions,
      tribalism, animalism, a belief
      in magic, and combining ithis
      and Eckankar into a hodge-podge
      of new belief.

      The White guy's "karmic family
      from Africa" sounds strange. I
      wonder if they felt the same
      about him? Eckists don't usually
      pay attention to the other side
      of the coin.

      Prometheus


      "Non" eckchains wrote:
      Hi all,

      It occurred to me that there is one area
      of the world where there may be some
      membership growth, and that is Africa.
      Cults sometimes appeal to the desperate
      and economically/educationally disadvantaged.
      The People there may get trapped because
      there is often a great deal of superstition
      about magic and curses etc. Once in they
      may fear leaving. I also noticed that in their
      World Seminar propaganda a quote by a
      man that he had found out about a new
      karmic family from Africa. I think this white
      man was being racists and dishonest, IMHO.

      Non eckster ; )

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Postekcon,
      > I agree that Eckankar will gradually
      > die off but only after Klemp does.
      >
      > Once the "crazies" [those Eckists
      > wearing EMF protective underwear
      > (similar to the "Magical" underwear
      > Mormons wear)] die off there will
      > be less fanaticism, but already there
      > is less respect and obedience toward
      > the RESA structural hierarchy and
      > to the time consuming and anal EK
      > Guidelines/procedures.
      >
      > Yes, there's a lot of "grooming" or
      > modeling/molding going on since
      > there aren't a lot of new people
      > showing up for anything Eckankar.
      >
      > Thus, Eckists get to "teach" and practice
      > their speaking/leadership skills by giving
      > intros and doing their redundant (approved)
      > book discussions and EWS large and small
      > group facilitating on fellow Eckists. What
      > all this crap has to do with "spirituality"
      > on a private and subjective Soul level is
      > left vacant of real substance.
      >
      > Yes, Eckists have "surrendered" their divinity,
      > Self-Mastery, and Spiritual Freedom as Soul.
      >
      > They can do nothing except via their Mahanta...
      > their imagined intercessor, protector, and
      > guide.
      >
      > Except HK (the Mahanta) doesn't "actually"
      > intercede, protect, or guide Eckists on the
      > Lower Planes where he should have the greater
      > powers (over Kal, i.e. Satan)!
      >
      > I still can't figure out how Klemp side-steps
      > responsibility so easily. HK didn't even
      > "protect" an EK Board Member (H.I.) working
      > at the ESC from dying of cancer! Now I know
      > that the guy took his illness well and was
      > very brave and faithful to the very last etc.,
      > but so are thousands of Christians! Therefore,
      > his EK bravery and EK faith sort of losses its
      > luster as an example for the Mahanta's (Klemp's)
      > spiritual/religious wares being sold through
      > Eckankar.
      >
      > Twitchell created a very interesting little religious
      > scam which Gross and Klemp were lucky enough
      > to inherit, but the price for all via their delusions
      > and deceit was/is karmically high.
      >
      > Wouldn't one think that 30 year (plus) ECK
      > members (H.I.s) should have found Self-Mastery
      > by now! It seems Eckankar doesn't work too
      > well or deliver on its promises does it! Or,
      > are these Souls simply slow learners???
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > postekcon wrote:
      > What keeps H.I.s in ekult??
      >
      > They have been 'groomed' to never question,
      > to never criticize. They have been 'groomed'
      > to visualize, to make real, to surrender to a
      > psychic entity called 'the mahanta' so it can
      > grow and feed off their energies, with the
      > promise it will give them protection!
      >
      > But in the 70s and 80s, we didn't understand
      > this concept of 'grooming'. But today's enquirers,
      > they DO!
      >
      > In consequence, ekult will never again
      > see membership growth!
      > -Postekcon
      >
      >
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Yes, it's incredible but true! In the June 2011
      > > H.I. Letter Klemp lists the insights and spiritual
      > > observations of a 12 year member and 3rd
      > > initiate, and HK concurs with most of what
      > > she had to say. This is why he had it printed!
      > >
      > > The following comments by Eckist "Robert"
      > > state that, "What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
      > > should be obvious - a regular flow of
      > > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
      > > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist."
      > >
      > > ME: However, if this were true then why
      > > does Klemp use the "flow of experiences"
      > > from a 3rd initiate versus H.I.s? And, Klemp
      > > has the passive/aggressive nerve to shove
      > > this crap down the throats of his H.I.s! What
      > > was he really thinking? Sure, her observations
      > > sound good, but we've heard and/or experienced
      > > it all before... in the beginning! Maybe that's
      > > the problem with H.I.s... they've become
      > > jaded via the observation process. Eckankar
      > > is just another religion that promotes belief
      > > in myth, dogma, and imagination over real
      > > world opinion. This is why Klemp and company
      > > can't handle criticism just as other religionists
      > > can't deal with it. It has come full circle for
      > > Eckists! The religious hangups and limitations
      > > they left behind for Eckankar have become
      > > those of Eckankar!
      > >
      > > Yes, Klemp hasn't really told us anything
      > > about this 3rd initiate and why this holier
      > > than thou Eckist had "negative" experiences
      > > and "misunderstandings" with her coworkers
      > > except she's been following the "Mahanta"
      > > for 12 years. Maybe that's her problem.
      > > She has blinders on and she's a fanatic!
      > >
      > > Instead, Klemp promotes the views of a 3rd
      > > initiate in the June 2011 H.I. Letter because
      > > she must know something that Higher Initiates
      > > have forgotten or have never discovered.
      > >
      > > BUT, what happened to that "Inner Guidance"
      > > from the Mahanta that all H.I.s are supposed
      > > to have? Once again HK has it the fault of the
      > > H.I.s and not himself! There's Never responsibility
      > > on Klemp's part because he's a fraud! If he did
      > > actually have supra-powers there would be
      > > no need to travel to Minneapolis for seminars
      > > or to use physical means to communicate his
      > > messages to his H.I. followers. After all, the
      > > Mahanta approves of all initiations and only
      > > those who are ready will receive the pink slip
      > > for the Higher Initiation right?
      > >
      > > In truth, the problem lies with both. Klemp
      > > (the Mahanta) is a fraud and the EK Initiations
      > > are fraudulent as well. This is why neither
      > > work, except, with the help of an active
      > > imagination and the desire to make it so.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > Klemp's Leadership Has Become Irrelevant:
      > >
      > > On Fri, 4/29/11, robert <signon77@> wrote:
      > >
      > > From: robert <signon77@>
      > > Subject: Re: Klemp's Eckankar Has Become Irrelevant
      > > To: "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@>
      > > Date: Friday, April 29, 2011, 11:16 AM
      > >
      > > It's quite simple really. Your mail
      > > completely ignores the spiritual reality
      > > of the ECK. What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
      > > should be obvious - a regular flow of
      > > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
      > > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist.
      > >
      > >
      > > I replied:
      > >
      > > No Bob, that's incorrect! H.I.s stay in
      > > Eckankar via the delusion that Klemp, the
      > > Mahanta, has instilled in their minds.
      > > They have given him permission to control
      > > their reality for them by believing he has
      > > mystical powers. Yet, he cannot even heal
      > > those in his inner circle.
      > >
      > > Their ekperiences and have become distorted.
      > > Klemp merely takes credit for the mind's ability
      > > to imagine, rationalize, and to dream. If there
      > > is any peek into a true "spiritual reality"
      > > it was done so by Soul and not via the false
      > > teachings of Eckankar.
      > >
      > > Those Eckists who have had a true "GOD"
      > > or "ECK" experience would, also, have
      > > the awareness to leave Eckankar's deceptions
      > > behind. This is because It would open the
      > > heart, mind and Soul to see those hidden
      > > truths that Klemp doesn't want anyone to
      > > speak of or to see. The fraud lies within
      > > the org: With where ALL the money comes
      > > and goes; with the phony initiations;
      > > with the false (prophet) Mahanta.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > prometheus wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I was thinking about the goals
      > > > > and promises that bind people
      > > > > to Eckankar. Both are imaginary
      > > > > and that seems to work for many
      > > > > Eckists. But how many Eckists
      > > > > really follow the Guidelines, and
      > > > > EK teachings?
      > > > >
      > > > > How many Higher Initiates do the
      > > > > Friday Fast?
      > > > >
      > > > > How many H.I.s actually mail a
      > > > > monthly report?
      > > > >
      > > > > How many H.I.s do a 20 minute
      > > > > spiritual exercise on a daily basis?
      > > > >
      > > > > How many H.I.s are in or are teaching
      > > > > a Satsang Class?
      > > > >
      > > > > How many H.I.s are rereading an
      > > > > ECK Discourse or are doing the
      > > > > Workbook for that discourse?
      > > > >
      > > > > How many H.I.s drink alcohol or
      > > > > smoke cigarettes or cigars or
      > > > > play the lottery and gamble?
      > > > >
      > > > > See, it's just not working because
      > > > > even if a H.I. did follow all of
      > > > > the rules it doesn't matter! H.I.s
      > > > > will have the same type of dreams
      > > > > and advance, or not, in initiations.
      > > > > There's no change! They are the
      > > > > same people. It doesn't matter
      > > > > what they do! One simply becomes
      > > > > more deluded in order to justify
      > > > > 30-40 years as a member of a
      > > > > meaningless (cult) private social
      > > > > club. The only thing lacking is
      > > > > a secret handshake!
      > > > >
      > > > > The hard truth is there are
      > > > > more Christians that have more
      > > > > and greater "spiritual" experiences
      > > > > and "stories" than Eckists do!
      > > > >
      > > > > Plus, there are people of other
      > > > > lower plane beliefs that are much
      > > > > more loving than most wannabe
      > > > > ECK Higher Initiates. But hey,
      > > > > most people need to worship
      > > > > something or someone when
      > > > > they can't see the Divine light
      > > > > within. This is the same for Eckists.
      > > > > They've got their divine LEM Harji
      > > > > and his alter ego "The Mahanta!"
      > > > >
      > > > > But, it's all Bullshit! I'm just amazed
      > > > > that longtime H.I.s are still going
      > > > > through the motions and giving lip
      > > > > service to Klemp. Service and Silence...
      > > > > don't complain or criticize because
      > > > > the truth is that higher ups can't give
      > > > > you any reasonable answers. They
      > > > > side-step issues and make it into
      > > > > your bad for bringing up a negative.
      > > > > But why is wanting to know the
      > > > > finances of the Eckankar org (your
      > > > > church) a negative? Why is there no
      > > > > trust from the top down? What is
      > > > > Klemp afraid of?
      > > > >
      > > > > Prometheus
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