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Re: Klemp Has A 3rd Initiate Instruct H.I.s

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  • Non
    Hi all, It occurred to me that there is one area of the world where there may be some membership growth, and that is Africa. Cults sometimes appeal to the
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 25, 2011
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      Hi all,

      It occurred to me that there is one area of the world where there may be some membership growth, and that is Africa. Cults sometimes appeal to the desperate and economically/educationally disadvantaged. The People there may get trapped because there is often a great deal of superstition about magic and curses etc. Once in they may fear leaving.I also noticed that in their World Seminar propaganda a quote by a man that he had found out about a new karmic family from Africa. I think this white man was being racists and dishonest, IMHO.

      Non eckster ; )

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Postekcon,
      > I agree that Eckankar will gradually
      > die off but only after Klemp does.
      >
      > Once the "crazies" [those Eckists
      > wearing EMF protective underwear
      > (similar to the "Magical" underwear
      > Mormons wear)] die off there will
      > be less fanaticism, but already there
      > is less respect and obedience toward
      > the RESA structural hierarchy and
      > to the time consuming and anal EK
      > Guidelines/procedures.
      >
      > Yes, there's a lot of "grooming" or
      > modeling/molding going on since
      > there aren't a lot of new people
      > showing up for anything Eckankar.
      >
      > Thus, Eckists get to "teach" and practice
      > their speaking/leadership skills by giving
      > intros and doing their redundant (approved)
      > book discussions and EWS large and small
      > group facilitating on fellow Eckists. What
      > all this crap has to do with "spirituality"
      > on a private and subjective Soul level is
      > left vacant of real substance.
      >
      > Yes, Eckists have "surrendered" their divinity,
      > Self-Mastery, and Spiritual Freedom as Soul.
      >
      > They can do nothing except via their Mahanta...
      > their imagined intercessor, protector, and
      > guide.
      >
      > Except HK (the Mahanta) doesn't "actually"
      > intercede, protect, or guide Eckists on the
      > Lower Planes where he should have the greater
      > powers (over Kal, i.e. Satan)!
      >
      > I still can't figure out how Klemp side-steps
      > responsibility so easily. HK didn't even
      > "protect" an EK Board Member (H.I.) working
      > at the ESC from dying of cancer! Now I know
      > that the guy took his illness well and was
      > very brave and faithful to the very last etc.,
      > but so are thousands of Christians! Therefore,
      > his EK bravery and EK faith sort of losses its
      > luster as an example for the Mahanta's (Klemp's)
      > spiritual/religious wares being sold through
      > Eckankar.
      >
      > Twitchell created a very interesting little religious
      > scam which Gross and Klemp were lucky enough
      > to inherit, but the price for all via their delusions
      > and deceit was/is karmically high.
      >
      > Wouldn't one think that 30 year (plus) ECK
      > members (H.I.s) should have found Self-Mastery
      > by now! It seems Eckankar doesn't work too
      > well or deliver on its promises does it! Or,
      > are these Souls simply slow learners???
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > postekcon wrote:
      > What keeps H.I.s in ekult??
      >
      > They have been 'groomed' to never question,
      > to never criticize. They have been 'groomed'
      > to visualize, to make real, to surrender to a
      > psychic entity called 'the mahanta' so it can
      > grow and feed off their energies, with the
      > promise it will give them protection!
      >
      > But in the 70s and 80s, we didn't understand
      > this concept of 'grooming'. But today's enquirers,
      > they DO!
      >
      > In consequence, ekult will never again
      > see membership growth!
      > -Postekcon
      >
      >
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Yes, it's incredible but true! In the June 2011
      > > H.I. Letter Klemp lists the insights and spiritual
      > > observations of a 12 year member and 3rd
      > > initiate, and HK concurs with most of what
      > > she had to say. This is why he had it printed!
      > >
      > > The following comments by Eckist "Robert"
      > > state that, "What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
      > > should be obvious - a regular flow of
      > > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
      > > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist."
      > >
      > > ME: However, if this were true then why
      > > does Klemp use the "flow of experiences"
      > > from a 3rd initiate versus H.I.s? And, Klemp
      > > has the passive/aggressive nerve to shove
      > > this crap down the throats of his H.I.s! What
      > > was he really thinking? Sure, her observations
      > > sound good, but we've heard and/or experienced
      > > it all before... in the beginning! Maybe that's
      > > the problem with H.I.s... they've become
      > > jaded via the observation process. Eckankar
      > > is just another religion that promotes belief
      > > in myth, dogma, and imagination over real
      > > world opinion. This is why Klemp and company
      > > can't handle criticism just as other religionists
      > > can't deal with it. It has come full circle for
      > > Eckists! The religious hangups and limitations
      > > they left behind for Eckankar have become
      > > those of Eckankar!
      > >
      > > Yes, Klemp hasn't really told us anything
      > > about this 3rd initiate and why this holier
      > > than thou Eckist had "negative" experiences
      > > and "misunderstandings" with her coworkers
      > > except she's been following the "Mahanta"
      > > for 12 years. Maybe that's her problem.
      > > She has blinders on and she's a fanatic!
      > >
      > > Instead, Klemp promotes the views of a 3rd
      > > initiate in the June 2011 H.I. Letter because
      > > she must know something that Higher Initiates
      > > have forgotten or have never discovered.
      > >
      > > BUT, what happened to that "Inner Guidance"
      > > from the Mahanta that all H.I.s are supposed
      > > to have? Once again HK has it the fault of the
      > > H.I.s and not himself! There's Never responsibility
      > > on Klemp's part because he's a fraud! If he did
      > > actually have supra-powers there would be
      > > no need to travel to Minneapolis for seminars
      > > or to use physical means to communicate his
      > > messages to his H.I. followers. After all, the
      > > Mahanta approves of all initiations and only
      > > those who are ready will receive the pink slip
      > > for the Higher Initiation right?
      > >
      > > In truth, the problem lies with both. Klemp
      > > (the Mahanta) is a fraud and the EK Initiations
      > > are fraudulent as well. This is why neither
      > > work, except, with the help of an active
      > > imagination and the desire to make it so.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > Klemp's Leadership Has Become Irrelevant:
      > >
      > > On Fri, 4/29/11, robert <signon77@> wrote:
      > >
      > > From: robert <signon77@>
      > > Subject: Re: Klemp's Eckankar Has Become Irrelevant
      > > To: "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@>
      > > Date: Friday, April 29, 2011, 11:16 AM
      > >
      > > It's quite simple really. Your mail
      > > completely ignores the spiritual reality
      > > of the ECK. What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
      > > should be obvious - a regular flow of
      > > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
      > > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist.
      > >
      > >
      > > I replied:
      > >
      > > No Bob, that's incorrect! H.I.s stay in
      > > Eckankar via the delusion that Klemp, the
      > > Mahanta, has instilled in their minds.
      > > They have given him permission to control
      > > their reality for them by believing he has
      > > mystical powers. Yet, he cannot even heal
      > > those in his inner circle.
      > >
      > > Their ekperiences and have become distorted.
      > > Klemp merely takes credit for the mind's ability
      > > to imagine, rationalize, and to dream. If there
      > > is any peek into a true "spiritual reality"
      > > it was done so by Soul and not via the false
      > > teachings of Eckankar.
      > >
      > > Those Eckists who have had a true "GOD"
      > > or "ECK" experience would, also, have
      > > the awareness to leave Eckankar's deceptions
      > > behind. This is because It would open the
      > > heart, mind and Soul to see those hidden
      > > truths that Klemp doesn't want anyone to
      > > speak of or to see. The fraud lies within
      > > the org: With where ALL the money comes
      > > and goes; with the phony initiations;
      > > with the false (prophet) Mahanta.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > prometheus wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I was thinking about the goals
      > > > > and promises that bind people
      > > > > to Eckankar. Both are imaginary
      > > > > and that seems to work for many
      > > > > Eckists. But how many Eckists
      > > > > really follow the Guidelines, and
      > > > > EK teachings?
      > > > >
      > > > > How many Higher Initiates do the
      > > > > Friday Fast?
      > > > >
      > > > > How many H.I.s actually mail a
      > > > > monthly report?
      > > > >
      > > > > How many H.I.s do a 20 minute
      > > > > spiritual exercise on a daily basis?
      > > > >
      > > > > How many H.I.s are in or are teaching
      > > > > a Satsang Class?
      > > > >
      > > > > How many H.I.s are rereading an
      > > > > ECK Discourse or are doing the
      > > > > Workbook for that discourse?
      > > > >
      > > > > How many H.I.s drink alcohol or
      > > > > smoke cigarettes or cigars or
      > > > > play the lottery and gamble?
      > > > >
      > > > > See, it's just not working because
      > > > > even if a H.I. did follow all of
      > > > > the rules it doesn't matter! H.I.s
      > > > > will have the same type of dreams
      > > > > and advance, or not, in initiations.
      > > > > There's no change! They are the
      > > > > same people. It doesn't matter
      > > > > what they do! One simply becomes
      > > > > more deluded in order to justify
      > > > > 30-40 years as a member of a
      > > > > meaningless (cult) private social
      > > > > club. The only thing lacking is
      > > > > a secret handshake!
      > > > >
      > > > > The hard truth is there are
      > > > > more Christians that have more
      > > > > and greater "spiritual" experiences
      > > > > and "stories" than Eckists do!
      > > > >
      > > > > Plus, there are people of other
      > > > > lower plane beliefs that are much
      > > > > more loving than most wannabe
      > > > > ECK Higher Initiates. But hey,
      > > > > most people need to worship
      > > > > something or someone when
      > > > > they can't see the Divine light
      > > > > within. This is the same for Eckists.
      > > > > They've got their divine LEM Harji
      > > > > and his alter ego "The Mahanta!"
      > > > >
      > > > > But, it's all Bullshit! I'm just amazed
      > > > > that longtime H.I.s are still going
      > > > > through the motions and giving lip
      > > > > service to Klemp. Service and Silence...
      > > > > don't complain or criticize because
      > > > > the truth is that higher ups can't give
      > > > > you any reasonable answers. They
      > > > > side-step issues and make it into
      > > > > your bad for bringing up a negative.
      > > > > But why is wanting to know the
      > > > > finances of the Eckankar org (your
      > > > > church) a negative? Why is there no
      > > > > trust from the top down? What is
      > > > > Klemp afraid of?
      > > > >
      > > > > Prometheus
      > >
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Non eckster and All, I agree with your assessment of African EK chelas. There are a lot of old superstitions, tribalism, animalism, a belief in magic,
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 25, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Non eckster and All,
        I agree with your assessment
        of African EK chelas. There
        are a lot of old superstitions,
        tribalism, animalism, a belief
        in magic, and combining ithis
        and Eckankar into a hodge-podge
        of new belief.

        The White guy's "karmic family
        from Africa" sounds strange. I
        wonder if they felt the same
        about him? Eckists don't usually
        pay attention to the other side
        of the coin.

        Prometheus


        "Non" eckchains wrote:
        Hi all,

        It occurred to me that there is one area
        of the world where there may be some
        membership growth, and that is Africa.
        Cults sometimes appeal to the desperate
        and economically/educationally disadvantaged.
        The People there may get trapped because
        there is often a great deal of superstition
        about magic and curses etc. Once in they
        may fear leaving. I also noticed that in their
        World Seminar propaganda a quote by a
        man that he had found out about a new
        karmic family from Africa. I think this white
        man was being racists and dishonest, IMHO.

        Non eckster ; )

        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello Postekcon,
        > I agree that Eckankar will gradually
        > die off but only after Klemp does.
        >
        > Once the "crazies" [those Eckists
        > wearing EMF protective underwear
        > (similar to the "Magical" underwear
        > Mormons wear)] die off there will
        > be less fanaticism, but already there
        > is less respect and obedience toward
        > the RESA structural hierarchy and
        > to the time consuming and anal EK
        > Guidelines/procedures.
        >
        > Yes, there's a lot of "grooming" or
        > modeling/molding going on since
        > there aren't a lot of new people
        > showing up for anything Eckankar.
        >
        > Thus, Eckists get to "teach" and practice
        > their speaking/leadership skills by giving
        > intros and doing their redundant (approved)
        > book discussions and EWS large and small
        > group facilitating on fellow Eckists. What
        > all this crap has to do with "spirituality"
        > on a private and subjective Soul level is
        > left vacant of real substance.
        >
        > Yes, Eckists have "surrendered" their divinity,
        > Self-Mastery, and Spiritual Freedom as Soul.
        >
        > They can do nothing except via their Mahanta...
        > their imagined intercessor, protector, and
        > guide.
        >
        > Except HK (the Mahanta) doesn't "actually"
        > intercede, protect, or guide Eckists on the
        > Lower Planes where he should have the greater
        > powers (over Kal, i.e. Satan)!
        >
        > I still can't figure out how Klemp side-steps
        > responsibility so easily. HK didn't even
        > "protect" an EK Board Member (H.I.) working
        > at the ESC from dying of cancer! Now I know
        > that the guy took his illness well and was
        > very brave and faithful to the very last etc.,
        > but so are thousands of Christians! Therefore,
        > his EK bravery and EK faith sort of losses its
        > luster as an example for the Mahanta's (Klemp's)
        > spiritual/religious wares being sold through
        > Eckankar.
        >
        > Twitchell created a very interesting little religious
        > scam which Gross and Klemp were lucky enough
        > to inherit, but the price for all via their delusions
        > and deceit was/is karmically high.
        >
        > Wouldn't one think that 30 year (plus) ECK
        > members (H.I.s) should have found Self-Mastery
        > by now! It seems Eckankar doesn't work too
        > well or deliver on its promises does it! Or,
        > are these Souls simply slow learners???
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        > postekcon wrote:
        > What keeps H.I.s in ekult??
        >
        > They have been 'groomed' to never question,
        > to never criticize. They have been 'groomed'
        > to visualize, to make real, to surrender to a
        > psychic entity called 'the mahanta' so it can
        > grow and feed off their energies, with the
        > promise it will give them protection!
        >
        > But in the 70s and 80s, we didn't understand
        > this concept of 'grooming'. But today's enquirers,
        > they DO!
        >
        > In consequence, ekult will never again
        > see membership growth!
        > -Postekcon
        >
        >
        >
        > prometheus wrote:
        > >
        > > Yes, it's incredible but true! In the June 2011
        > > H.I. Letter Klemp lists the insights and spiritual
        > > observations of a 12 year member and 3rd
        > > initiate, and HK concurs with most of what
        > > she had to say. This is why he had it printed!
        > >
        > > The following comments by Eckist "Robert"
        > > state that, "What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
        > > should be obvious - a regular flow of
        > > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
        > > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist."
        > >
        > > ME: However, if this were true then why
        > > does Klemp use the "flow of experiences"
        > > from a 3rd initiate versus H.I.s? And, Klemp
        > > has the passive/aggressive nerve to shove
        > > this crap down the throats of his H.I.s! What
        > > was he really thinking? Sure, her observations
        > > sound good, but we've heard and/or experienced
        > > it all before... in the beginning! Maybe that's
        > > the problem with H.I.s... they've become
        > > jaded via the observation process. Eckankar
        > > is just another religion that promotes belief
        > > in myth, dogma, and imagination over real
        > > world opinion. This is why Klemp and company
        > > can't handle criticism just as other religionists
        > > can't deal with it. It has come full circle for
        > > Eckists! The religious hangups and limitations
        > > they left behind for Eckankar have become
        > > those of Eckankar!
        > >
        > > Yes, Klemp hasn't really told us anything
        > > about this 3rd initiate and why this holier
        > > than thou Eckist had "negative" experiences
        > > and "misunderstandings" with her coworkers
        > > except she's been following the "Mahanta"
        > > for 12 years. Maybe that's her problem.
        > > She has blinders on and she's a fanatic!
        > >
        > > Instead, Klemp promotes the views of a 3rd
        > > initiate in the June 2011 H.I. Letter because
        > > she must know something that Higher Initiates
        > > have forgotten or have never discovered.
        > >
        > > BUT, what happened to that "Inner Guidance"
        > > from the Mahanta that all H.I.s are supposed
        > > to have? Once again HK has it the fault of the
        > > H.I.s and not himself! There's Never responsibility
        > > on Klemp's part because he's a fraud! If he did
        > > actually have supra-powers there would be
        > > no need to travel to Minneapolis for seminars
        > > or to use physical means to communicate his
        > > messages to his H.I. followers. After all, the
        > > Mahanta approves of all initiations and only
        > > those who are ready will receive the pink slip
        > > for the Higher Initiation right?
        > >
        > > In truth, the problem lies with both. Klemp
        > > (the Mahanta) is a fraud and the EK Initiations
        > > are fraudulent as well. This is why neither
        > > work, except, with the help of an active
        > > imagination and the desire to make it so.
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > >
        > > Klemp's Leadership Has Become Irrelevant:
        > >
        > > On Fri, 4/29/11, robert <signon77@> wrote:
        > >
        > > From: robert <signon77@>
        > > Subject: Re: Klemp's Eckankar Has Become Irrelevant
        > > To: "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@>
        > > Date: Friday, April 29, 2011, 11:16 AM
        > >
        > > It's quite simple really. Your mail
        > > completely ignores the spiritual reality
        > > of the ECK. What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
        > > should be obvious - a regular flow of
        > > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
        > > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist.
        > >
        > >
        > > I replied:
        > >
        > > No Bob, that's incorrect! H.I.s stay in
        > > Eckankar via the delusion that Klemp, the
        > > Mahanta, has instilled in their minds.
        > > They have given him permission to control
        > > their reality for them by believing he has
        > > mystical powers. Yet, he cannot even heal
        > > those in his inner circle.
        > >
        > > Their ekperiences and have become distorted.
        > > Klemp merely takes credit for the mind's ability
        > > to imagine, rationalize, and to dream. If there
        > > is any peek into a true "spiritual reality"
        > > it was done so by Soul and not via the false
        > > teachings of Eckankar.
        > >
        > > Those Eckists who have had a true "GOD"
        > > or "ECK" experience would, also, have
        > > the awareness to leave Eckankar's deceptions
        > > behind. This is because It would open the
        > > heart, mind and Soul to see those hidden
        > > truths that Klemp doesn't want anyone to
        > > speak of or to see. The fraud lies within
        > > the org: With where ALL the money comes
        > > and goes; with the phony initiations;
        > > with the false (prophet) Mahanta.
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > > prometheus wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I was thinking about the goals
        > > > > and promises that bind people
        > > > > to Eckankar. Both are imaginary
        > > > > and that seems to work for many
        > > > > Eckists. But how many Eckists
        > > > > really follow the Guidelines, and
        > > > > EK teachings?
        > > > >
        > > > > How many Higher Initiates do the
        > > > > Friday Fast?
        > > > >
        > > > > How many H.I.s actually mail a
        > > > > monthly report?
        > > > >
        > > > > How many H.I.s do a 20 minute
        > > > > spiritual exercise on a daily basis?
        > > > >
        > > > > How many H.I.s are in or are teaching
        > > > > a Satsang Class?
        > > > >
        > > > > How many H.I.s are rereading an
        > > > > ECK Discourse or are doing the
        > > > > Workbook for that discourse?
        > > > >
        > > > > How many H.I.s drink alcohol or
        > > > > smoke cigarettes or cigars or
        > > > > play the lottery and gamble?
        > > > >
        > > > > See, it's just not working because
        > > > > even if a H.I. did follow all of
        > > > > the rules it doesn't matter! H.I.s
        > > > > will have the same type of dreams
        > > > > and advance, or not, in initiations.
        > > > > There's no change! They are the
        > > > > same people. It doesn't matter
        > > > > what they do! One simply becomes
        > > > > more deluded in order to justify
        > > > > 30-40 years as a member of a
        > > > > meaningless (cult) private social
        > > > > club. The only thing lacking is
        > > > > a secret handshake!
        > > > >
        > > > > The hard truth is there are
        > > > > more Christians that have more
        > > > > and greater "spiritual" experiences
        > > > > and "stories" than Eckists do!
        > > > >
        > > > > Plus, there are people of other
        > > > > lower plane beliefs that are much
        > > > > more loving than most wannabe
        > > > > ECK Higher Initiates. But hey,
        > > > > most people need to worship
        > > > > something or someone when
        > > > > they can't see the Divine light
        > > > > within. This is the same for Eckists.
        > > > > They've got their divine LEM Harji
        > > > > and his alter ego "The Mahanta!"
        > > > >
        > > > > But, it's all Bullshit! I'm just amazed
        > > > > that longtime H.I.s are still going
        > > > > through the motions and giving lip
        > > > > service to Klemp. Service and Silence...
        > > > > don't complain or criticize because
        > > > > the truth is that higher ups can't give
        > > > > you any reasonable answers. They
        > > > > side-step issues and make it into
        > > > > your bad for bringing up a negative.
        > > > > But why is wanting to know the
        > > > > finances of the Eckankar org (your
        > > > > church) a negative? Why is there no
        > > > > trust from the top down? What is
        > > > > Klemp afraid of?
        > > > >
        > > > > Prometheus
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