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Klemp's Eckankar Has Become Irrelevant

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  • prometheus_973
    I was thinking about the goals and promises that bind people to Eckankar. Both are imaginary and that seems to work for many Eckists. But how many Eckists
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 24 10:44 PM
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      I was thinking about the goals
      and promises that bind people
      to Eckankar. Both are imaginary
      and that seems to work for many
      Eckists. But how many Eckists
      really follow the Guidelines, and
      EK teachings?

      How many Higher Initiates do the
      Friday Fast?

      How many H.I.s actually mail a
      monthly report?

      How many H.I.s do a 20 minute
      spiritual exercise on a daily basis?

      How many H.I.s are in or are teaching
      a Satsang Class?

      How many H.I.s are rereading an
      ECK Discourse or are doing the
      Workbook for that discourse?

      How many H.I.s drink alcohol or
      smoke cigarettes or cigars or
      play the lottery and gamble?

      See, it's just not working because
      even if a H.I. did follow all of
      the rules it doesn't matter! H.I.s
      will have the same type of dreams
      and advance, or not, in initiations.
      There's no change! They are the
      same people. It doesn't matter
      what they do! One simply becomes
      more deluded in order to justify
      30-40 years as a member of a
      meaningless (cult) private social
      club. The only thing lacking is
      a secret handshake!

      The hard truth is there are
      more Christians that have more
      and greater "spiritual" experiences
      and "stories" than Eckists do!

      Plus, there are people of other
      lower plane beliefs that are much
      more loving than most wannabe
      ECK Higher Initiates. But hey,
      most people need to worship
      something or someone when
      they can't see the Divine light
      within. This is the same for Eckists.
      They've got their divine LEM Harji
      and his alter ego "The Mahanta!"

      But, it's all Bullshit! I'm just amazed
      that longtime H.I.s are still going
      through the motions and giving lip
      service to Klemp. Service and Silence...
      don't complain or criticize because
      the truth is that higher ups can't give
      you any reasonable answers. They
      side-step issues and make it into
      your bad for bringing up a negative.
      But why is wanting to know the
      finances of the Eckankar org (your
      church) a negative? Why is there no
      trust from the top down? What is
      Klemp afraid of?

      Prometheus
    • Gnothe Seauton
      No Bob, that s incorrect! H.I.s stay in Eckankar via the delusion that Klemp, the Mahanta, has instilled in their minds. They have given him permission to
      Message 2 of 7 , May 15, 2011
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        No Bob, that's incorrect! H.I.s stay in
        Eckankar via the delusion that Klemp, the
        Mahanta, has instilled in their minds.
        They have given him permission to control
        their reality for them by believing he has
        mystical powers. Yet, he cannot even heal
        those in his inner circle.

        Their ekperiences and have become distorted.
        Klemp merely takes credit for the mind's ability
        to imagine, rationalize, and to dream. If there
        is any peek into a true "spiritual reality"
        it was done so by Soul and not via the false
        teachings of Eckankar.

        Those Eckists who have had a true "GOD"
        or "ECK" experience would, also, have
        the awareness to leave Eckankar's deceptions
        behind. This is because It would open the
        heart, mind and Soul to see those hidden
        truths that Klemp doesn't want anyone to
        speak of or to see. The fraud lies within
        the org: With where ALL the money comes
        and goes; with the phony initiations;
        with the false (prophet) Mahanta.

        Prometheus

        On Fri, 4/29/11, robert <signon77@...> wrote:

        From: robert <signon77@...>
        Subject: Re: Klemp's Eckankar Has Become Irrelevant
        To: "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...>
        Date: Friday, April 29, 2011, 11:16 AM

        It's quite simple really. Your mail
        completely ignores the spiritual reality
        of the ECK. What keeps HIs in ECKANKAR
        should be obvious - a regular flow of
        experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
        That is the essence of the life of the ECKist.



        prometheus wrote:
        > >
        > > I was thinking about the goals
        > > and promises that bind people
        > > to Eckankar. Both are imaginary
        > > and that seems to work for many
        > > Eckists. But how many Eckists
        > > really follow the Guidelines, and
        > > EK teachings?
        > >
        > > How many Higher Initiates do the
        > > Friday Fast?
        > >
        > > How many H.I.s actually mail a
        > > monthly report?
        > >
        > > How many H.I.s do a 20 minute
        > > spiritual exercise on a daily basis?
        > >
        > > How many H.I.s are in or are teaching
        > > a Satsang Class?
        > >
        > > How many H.I.s are rereading an
        > > ECK Discourse or are doing the
        > > Workbook for that discourse?
        > >
        > > How many H.I.s drink alcohol or
        > > smoke cigarettes or cigars or
        > > play the lottery and gamble?
        > >
        > > See, it's just not working because
        > > even if a H.I. did follow all of
        > > the rules it doesn't matter! H.I.s
        > > will have the same type of dreams
        > > and advance, or not, in initiations.
        > > There's no change! They are the
        > > same people. It doesn't matter
        > > what they do! One simply becomes
        > > more deluded in order to justify
        > > 30-40 years as a member of a
        > > meaningless (cult) private social
        > > club. The only thing lacking is
        > > a secret handshake!
        > >
        > > The hard truth is there are
        > > more Christians that have more
        > > and greater "spiritual" experiences
        > > and "stories" than Eckists do!
        > >
        > > Plus, there are people of other
        > > lower plane beliefs that are much
        > > more loving than most wannabe
        > > ECK Higher Initiates. But hey,
        > > most people need to worship
        > > something or someone when
        > > they can't see the Divine light
        > > within. This is the same for Eckists.
        > > They've got their divine LEM Harji
        > > and his alter ego "The Mahanta!"
        > >
        > > But, it's all Bullshit! I'm just amazed
        > > that longtime H.I.s are still going
        > > through the motions and giving lip
        > > service to Klemp. Service and Silence...
        > > don't complain or criticize because
        > > the truth is that higher ups can't give
        > > you any reasonable answers. They
        > > side-step issues and make it into
        > > your bad for bringing up a negative.
        > > But why is wanting to know the
        > > finances of the Eckankar org (your
        > > church) a negative? Why is there no
        > > trust from the top down? What is
        > > Klemp afraid of?
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        >
        >
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Yes, it s incredible but true! In the June 2011 H.I. Letter Klemp lists the insights and spiritual observations of a 12 year member and 3rd initiate, and HK
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 22, 2011
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          Yes, it's incredible but true! In the June 2011
          H.I. Letter Klemp lists the insights and spiritual
          observations of a 12 year member and 3rd
          initiate, and HK concurs with most of what
          she had to say. This is why he had it printed!

          The following comments by Eckist "Robert"
          state that, "What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
          should be obvious - a regular flow of
          experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
          That is the essence of the life of the ECKist."

          ME: However, if this were true then why
          does Klemp use the "flow of experiences"
          from a 3rd initiate versus H.I.s? And, Klemp
          has the passive/aggressive nerve to shove
          this crap down the throats of his H.I.s! What
          was he really thinking? Sure, her observations
          sound good, but we've heard and/or experienced
          it all before... in the beginning! Maybe that's
          the problem with H.I.s... they've become
          jaded via the observation process. Eckankar
          is just another religion that promotes belief
          in myth, dogma, and imagination over real
          world opinion. This is why Klemp and company
          can't handle criticism just as other religionists
          can't deal with it. It has come full circle for
          Eckists! The religious hangups and limitations
          they left behind for Eckankar have become
          those of Eckankar!

          Yes, Klemp hasn't really told us anything
          about this 3rd initiate and why this holier
          than thou Eckist had "negative" experiences
          and "misunderstandings" with her coworkers
          except she's been following the "Mahanta"
          for 12 years. Maybe that's her problem.
          She has blinders on and she's a fanatic!

          Instead, Klemp promotes the views of a 3rd
          initiate in the June 2011 H.I. Letter because
          she must know something that Higher Initiates
          have forgotten or have never discovered.

          BUT, what happened to that "Inner Guidance"
          from the Mahanta that all H.I.s are supposed
          to have? Once again HK has it the fault of the
          H.I.s and not himself! There's Never responsibility
          on Klemp's part because he's a fraud! If he did
          actually have supra-powers there would be
          no need to travel to Minneapolis for seminars
          or to use physical means to communicate his
          messages to his H.I. followers. After all, the
          Mahanta approves of all initiations and only
          those who are ready will receive the pink slip
          for the Higher Initiation right?

          In truth, the problem lies with both. Klemp
          (the Mahanta) is a fraud and the EK Initiations
          are fraudulent as well. This is why neither
          work, except, with the help of an active
          imagination and the desire to make it so.

          Prometheus


          Klemp's Leadership Has Become Irrelevant:

          On Fri, 4/29/11, robert <signon77@...> wrote:

          From: robert <signon77@...>
          Subject: Re: Klemp's Eckankar Has Become Irrelevant
          To: "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...>
          Date: Friday, April 29, 2011, 11:16 AM

          It's quite simple really. Your mail
          completely ignores the spiritual reality
          of the ECK. What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
          should be obvious - a regular flow of
          experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
          That is the essence of the life of the ECKist.


          I replied:

          No Bob, that's incorrect! H.I.s stay in
          Eckankar via the delusion that Klemp, the
          Mahanta, has instilled in their minds.
          They have given him permission to control
          their reality for them by believing he has
          mystical powers. Yet, he cannot even heal
          those in his inner circle.

          Their ekperiences and have become distorted.
          Klemp merely takes credit for the mind's ability
          to imagine, rationalize, and to dream. If there
          is any peek into a true "spiritual reality"
          it was done so by Soul and not via the false
          teachings of Eckankar.

          Those Eckists who have had a true "GOD"
          or "ECK" experience would, also, have
          the awareness to leave Eckankar's deceptions
          behind. This is because It would open the
          heart, mind and Soul to see those hidden
          truths that Klemp doesn't want anyone to
          speak of or to see. The fraud lies within
          the org: With where ALL the money comes
          and goes; with the phony initiations;
          with the false (prophet) Mahanta.

          Prometheus

          prometheus wrote:
          > >
          > > I was thinking about the goals
          > > and promises that bind people
          > > to Eckankar. Both are imaginary
          > > and that seems to work for many
          > > Eckists. But how many Eckists
          > > really follow the Guidelines, and
          > > EK teachings?
          > >
          > > How many Higher Initiates do the
          > > Friday Fast?
          > >
          > > How many H.I.s actually mail a
          > > monthly report?
          > >
          > > How many H.I.s do a 20 minute
          > > spiritual exercise on a daily basis?
          > >
          > > How many H.I.s are in or are teaching
          > > a Satsang Class?
          > >
          > > How many H.I.s are rereading an
          > > ECK Discourse or are doing the
          > > Workbook for that discourse?
          > >
          > > How many H.I.s drink alcohol or
          > > smoke cigarettes or cigars or
          > > play the lottery and gamble?
          > >
          > > See, it's just not working because
          > > even if a H.I. did follow all of
          > > the rules it doesn't matter! H.I.s
          > > will have the same type of dreams
          > > and advance, or not, in initiations.
          > > There's no change! They are the
          > > same people. It doesn't matter
          > > what they do! One simply becomes
          > > more deluded in order to justify
          > > 30-40 years as a member of a
          > > meaningless (cult) private social
          > > club. The only thing lacking is
          > > a secret handshake!
          > >
          > > The hard truth is there are
          > > more Christians that have more
          > > and greater "spiritual" experiences
          > > and "stories" than Eckists do!
          > >
          > > Plus, there are people of other
          > > lower plane beliefs that are much
          > > more loving than most wannabe
          > > ECK Higher Initiates. But hey,
          > > most people need to worship
          > > something or someone when
          > > they can't see the Divine light
          > > within. This is the same for Eckists.
          > > They've got their divine LEM Harji
          > > and his alter ego "The Mahanta!"
          > >
          > > But, it's all Bullshit! I'm just amazed
          > > that longtime H.I.s are still going
          > > through the motions and giving lip
          > > service to Klemp. Service and Silence...
          > > don't complain or criticize because
          > > the truth is that higher ups can't give
          > > you any reasonable answers. They
          > > side-step issues and make it into
          > > your bad for bringing up a negative.
          > > But why is wanting to know the
          > > finances of the Eckankar org (your
          > > church) a negative? Why is there no
          > > trust from the top down? What is
          > > Klemp afraid of?
          > >
          > > Prometheus
        • postekcon
          What keeps H.I.s in ekult?? They have been groomed to never question, to never criticize. They have been groomed to visualize, to make real, to surrender
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 23, 2011
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            What keeps H.I.s in ekult??

            They have been 'groomed' to never question, to never criticize. They have been 'groomed' to visualize, to make real, to surrender to a psychic entity called 'the mahanta' so it can grow and feed off their energies, with the promise it will give them protection!

            But in the 70s and 80s, we didn't understand this concept of 'grooming'. But today's enquirers, they DO!
            In consequence, ekult will never again see membership growth!
            -Postekcon



            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Yes, it's incredible but true! In the June 2011
            > H.I. Letter Klemp lists the insights and spiritual
            > observations of a 12 year member and 3rd
            > initiate, and HK concurs with most of what
            > she had to say. This is why he had it printed!
            >
            > The following comments by Eckist "Robert"
            > state that, "What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
            > should be obvious - a regular flow of
            > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
            > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist."
            >
            > ME: However, if this were true then why
            > does Klemp use the "flow of experiences"
            > from a 3rd initiate versus H.I.s? And, Klemp
            > has the passive/aggressive nerve to shove
            > this crap down the throats of his H.I.s! What
            > was he really thinking? Sure, her observations
            > sound good, but we've heard and/or experienced
            > it all before... in the beginning! Maybe that's
            > the problem with H.I.s... they've become
            > jaded via the observation process. Eckankar
            > is just another religion that promotes belief
            > in myth, dogma, and imagination over real
            > world opinion. This is why Klemp and company
            > can't handle criticism just as other religionists
            > can't deal with it. It has come full circle for
            > Eckists! The religious hangups and limitations
            > they left behind for Eckankar have become
            > those of Eckankar!
            >
            > Yes, Klemp hasn't really told us anything
            > about this 3rd initiate and why this holier
            > than thou Eckist had "negative" experiences
            > and "misunderstandings" with her coworkers
            > except she's been following the "Mahanta"
            > for 12 years. Maybe that's her problem.
            > She has blinders on and she's a fanatic!
            >
            > Instead, Klemp promotes the views of a 3rd
            > initiate in the June 2011 H.I. Letter because
            > she must know something that Higher Initiates
            > have forgotten or have never discovered.
            >
            > BUT, what happened to that "Inner Guidance"
            > from the Mahanta that all H.I.s are supposed
            > to have? Once again HK has it the fault of the
            > H.I.s and not himself! There's Never responsibility
            > on Klemp's part because he's a fraud! If he did
            > actually have supra-powers there would be
            > no need to travel to Minneapolis for seminars
            > or to use physical means to communicate his
            > messages to his H.I. followers. After all, the
            > Mahanta approves of all initiations and only
            > those who are ready will receive the pink slip
            > for the Higher Initiation right?
            >
            > In truth, the problem lies with both. Klemp
            > (the Mahanta) is a fraud and the EK Initiations
            > are fraudulent as well. This is why neither
            > work, except, with the help of an active
            > imagination and the desire to make it so.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > Klemp's Leadership Has Become Irrelevant:
            >
            > On Fri, 4/29/11, robert <signon77@...> wrote:
            >
            > From: robert <signon77@...>
            > Subject: Re: Klemp's Eckankar Has Become Irrelevant
            > To: "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...>
            > Date: Friday, April 29, 2011, 11:16 AM
            >
            > It's quite simple really. Your mail
            > completely ignores the spiritual reality
            > of the ECK. What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
            > should be obvious - a regular flow of
            > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
            > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist.
            >
            >
            > I replied:
            >
            > No Bob, that's incorrect! H.I.s stay in
            > Eckankar via the delusion that Klemp, the
            > Mahanta, has instilled in their minds.
            > They have given him permission to control
            > their reality for them by believing he has
            > mystical powers. Yet, he cannot even heal
            > those in his inner circle.
            >
            > Their ekperiences and have become distorted.
            > Klemp merely takes credit for the mind's ability
            > to imagine, rationalize, and to dream. If there
            > is any peek into a true "spiritual reality"
            > it was done so by Soul and not via the false
            > teachings of Eckankar.
            >
            > Those Eckists who have had a true "GOD"
            > or "ECK" experience would, also, have
            > the awareness to leave Eckankar's deceptions
            > behind. This is because It would open the
            > heart, mind and Soul to see those hidden
            > truths that Klemp doesn't want anyone to
            > speak of or to see. The fraud lies within
            > the org: With where ALL the money comes
            > and goes; with the phony initiations;
            > with the false (prophet) Mahanta.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I was thinking about the goals
            > > > and promises that bind people
            > > > to Eckankar. Both are imaginary
            > > > and that seems to work for many
            > > > Eckists. But how many Eckists
            > > > really follow the Guidelines, and
            > > > EK teachings?
            > > >
            > > > How many Higher Initiates do the
            > > > Friday Fast?
            > > >
            > > > How many H.I.s actually mail a
            > > > monthly report?
            > > >
            > > > How many H.I.s do a 20 minute
            > > > spiritual exercise on a daily basis?
            > > >
            > > > How many H.I.s are in or are teaching
            > > > a Satsang Class?
            > > >
            > > > How many H.I.s are rereading an
            > > > ECK Discourse or are doing the
            > > > Workbook for that discourse?
            > > >
            > > > How many H.I.s drink alcohol or
            > > > smoke cigarettes or cigars or
            > > > play the lottery and gamble?
            > > >
            > > > See, it's just not working because
            > > > even if a H.I. did follow all of
            > > > the rules it doesn't matter! H.I.s
            > > > will have the same type of dreams
            > > > and advance, or not, in initiations.
            > > > There's no change! They are the
            > > > same people. It doesn't matter
            > > > what they do! One simply becomes
            > > > more deluded in order to justify
            > > > 30-40 years as a member of a
            > > > meaningless (cult) private social
            > > > club. The only thing lacking is
            > > > a secret handshake!
            > > >
            > > > The hard truth is there are
            > > > more Christians that have more
            > > > and greater "spiritual" experiences
            > > > and "stories" than Eckists do!
            > > >
            > > > Plus, there are people of other
            > > > lower plane beliefs that are much
            > > > more loving than most wannabe
            > > > ECK Higher Initiates. But hey,
            > > > most people need to worship
            > > > something or someone when
            > > > they can't see the Divine light
            > > > within. This is the same for Eckists.
            > > > They've got their divine LEM Harji
            > > > and his alter ego "The Mahanta!"
            > > >
            > > > But, it's all Bullshit! I'm just amazed
            > > > that longtime H.I.s are still going
            > > > through the motions and giving lip
            > > > service to Klemp. Service and Silence...
            > > > don't complain or criticize because
            > > > the truth is that higher ups can't give
            > > > you any reasonable answers. They
            > > > side-step issues and make it into
            > > > your bad for bringing up a negative.
            > > > But why is wanting to know the
            > > > finances of the Eckankar org (your
            > > > church) a negative? Why is there no
            > > > trust from the top down? What is
            > > > Klemp afraid of?
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Postekcon, I agree that Eckankar will gradually die off but only after Klemp does. Once the crazies [those Eckists wearing EMF protective underwear
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 24, 2011
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              Hello Postekcon,
              I agree that Eckankar will gradually
              die off but only after Klemp does.

              Once the "crazies" [those Eckists
              wearing EMF protective underwear
              (similar to the "Magical" underwear
              Mormons wear)] die off there will
              be less fanaticism, but already there
              is less respect and obedience toward
              the RESA structural hierarchy and
              to the time consuming and anal EK
              Guidelines/procedures.

              Yes, there's a lot of "grooming" or
              modeling/molding going on since
              there aren't a lot of new people
              showing up for anything Eckankar.

              Thus, Eckists get to "teach" and practice
              their speaking/leadership skills by giving
              intros and doing their redundant (approved)
              book discussions and EWS large and small
              group facilitating on fellow Eckists. What
              all this crap has to do with "spirituality"
              on a private and subjective Soul level is
              left vacant of real substance.

              Yes, Eckists have "surrendered" their divinity,
              Self-Mastery, and Spiritual Freedom as Soul.

              They can do nothing except via their Mahanta...
              their imagined intercessor, protector, and
              guide.

              Except HK (the Mahanta) doesn't "actually"
              intercede, protect, or guide Eckists on the
              Lower Planes where he should have the greater
              powers (over Kal, i.e. Satan)!

              I still can't figure out how Klemp side-steps
              responsibility so easily. HK didn't even
              "protect" an EK Board Member (H.I.) working
              at the ESC from dying of cancer! Now I know
              that the guy took his illness well and was
              very brave and faithful to the very last etc.,
              but so are thousands of Christians! Therefore,
              his EK bravery and EK faith sort of losses its
              luster as an example for the Mahanta's (Klemp's)
              spiritual/religious wares being sold through
              Eckankar.

              Twitchell created a very interesting little religious
              scam which Gross and Klemp were lucky enough
              to inherit, but the price for all via their delusions
              and deceit was/is karmically high.

              Wouldn't one think that 30 year (plus) ECK
              members (H.I.s) should have found Self-Mastery
              by now! It seems Eckankar doesn't work too
              well or deliver on its promises does it! Or,
              are these Souls simply slow learners???

              Prometheus


              postekcon wrote:
              What keeps H.I.s in ekult??

              They have been 'groomed' to never question,
              to never criticize. They have been 'groomed'
              to visualize, to make real, to surrender to a
              psychic entity called 'the mahanta' so it can
              grow and feed off their energies, with the
              promise it will give them protection!

              But in the 70s and 80s, we didn't understand
              this concept of 'grooming'. But today's enquirers,
              they DO!

              In consequence, ekult will never again
              see membership growth!
              -Postekcon



              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Yes, it's incredible but true! In the June 2011
              > H.I. Letter Klemp lists the insights and spiritual
              > observations of a 12 year member and 3rd
              > initiate, and HK concurs with most of what
              > she had to say. This is why he had it printed!
              >
              > The following comments by Eckist "Robert"
              > state that, "What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
              > should be obvious - a regular flow of
              > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
              > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist."
              >
              > ME: However, if this were true then why
              > does Klemp use the "flow of experiences"
              > from a 3rd initiate versus H.I.s? And, Klemp
              > has the passive/aggressive nerve to shove
              > this crap down the throats of his H.I.s! What
              > was he really thinking? Sure, her observations
              > sound good, but we've heard and/or experienced
              > it all before... in the beginning! Maybe that's
              > the problem with H.I.s... they've become
              > jaded via the observation process. Eckankar
              > is just another religion that promotes belief
              > in myth, dogma, and imagination over real
              > world opinion. This is why Klemp and company
              > can't handle criticism just as other religionists
              > can't deal with it. It has come full circle for
              > Eckists! The religious hangups and limitations
              > they left behind for Eckankar have become
              > those of Eckankar!
              >
              > Yes, Klemp hasn't really told us anything
              > about this 3rd initiate and why this holier
              > than thou Eckist had "negative" experiences
              > and "misunderstandings" with her coworkers
              > except she's been following the "Mahanta"
              > for 12 years. Maybe that's her problem.
              > She has blinders on and she's a fanatic!
              >
              > Instead, Klemp promotes the views of a 3rd
              > initiate in the June 2011 H.I. Letter because
              > she must know something that Higher Initiates
              > have forgotten or have never discovered.
              >
              > BUT, what happened to that "Inner Guidance"
              > from the Mahanta that all H.I.s are supposed
              > to have? Once again HK has it the fault of the
              > H.I.s and not himself! There's Never responsibility
              > on Klemp's part because he's a fraud! If he did
              > actually have supra-powers there would be
              > no need to travel to Minneapolis for seminars
              > or to use physical means to communicate his
              > messages to his H.I. followers. After all, the
              > Mahanta approves of all initiations and only
              > those who are ready will receive the pink slip
              > for the Higher Initiation right?
              >
              > In truth, the problem lies with both. Klemp
              > (the Mahanta) is a fraud and the EK Initiations
              > are fraudulent as well. This is why neither
              > work, except, with the help of an active
              > imagination and the desire to make it so.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > Klemp's Leadership Has Become Irrelevant:
              >
              > On Fri, 4/29/11, robert <signon77@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: robert <signon77@...>
              > Subject: Re: Klemp's Eckankar Has Become Irrelevant
              > To: "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...>
              > Date: Friday, April 29, 2011, 11:16 AM
              >
              > It's quite simple really. Your mail
              > completely ignores the spiritual reality
              > of the ECK. What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
              > should be obvious - a regular flow of
              > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
              > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist.
              >
              >
              > I replied:
              >
              > No Bob, that's incorrect! H.I.s stay in
              > Eckankar via the delusion that Klemp, the
              > Mahanta, has instilled in their minds.
              > They have given him permission to control
              > their reality for them by believing he has
              > mystical powers. Yet, he cannot even heal
              > those in his inner circle.
              >
              > Their ekperiences and have become distorted.
              > Klemp merely takes credit for the mind's ability
              > to imagine, rationalize, and to dream. If there
              > is any peek into a true "spiritual reality"
              > it was done so by Soul and not via the false
              > teachings of Eckankar.
              >
              > Those Eckists who have had a true "GOD"
              > or "ECK" experience would, also, have
              > the awareness to leave Eckankar's deceptions
              > behind. This is because It would open the
              > heart, mind and Soul to see those hidden
              > truths that Klemp doesn't want anyone to
              > speak of or to see. The fraud lies within
              > the org: With where ALL the money comes
              > and goes; with the phony initiations;
              > with the false (prophet) Mahanta.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I was thinking about the goals
              > > > and promises that bind people
              > > > to Eckankar. Both are imaginary
              > > > and that seems to work for many
              > > > Eckists. But how many Eckists
              > > > really follow the Guidelines, and
              > > > EK teachings?
              > > >
              > > > How many Higher Initiates do the
              > > > Friday Fast?
              > > >
              > > > How many H.I.s actually mail a
              > > > monthly report?
              > > >
              > > > How many H.I.s do a 20 minute
              > > > spiritual exercise on a daily basis?
              > > >
              > > > How many H.I.s are in or are teaching
              > > > a Satsang Class?
              > > >
              > > > How many H.I.s are rereading an
              > > > ECK Discourse or are doing the
              > > > Workbook for that discourse?
              > > >
              > > > How many H.I.s drink alcohol or
              > > > smoke cigarettes or cigars or
              > > > play the lottery and gamble?
              > > >
              > > > See, it's just not working because
              > > > even if a H.I. did follow all of
              > > > the rules it doesn't matter! H.I.s
              > > > will have the same type of dreams
              > > > and advance, or not, in initiations.
              > > > There's no change! They are the
              > > > same people. It doesn't matter
              > > > what they do! One simply becomes
              > > > more deluded in order to justify
              > > > 30-40 years as a member of a
              > > > meaningless (cult) private social
              > > > club. The only thing lacking is
              > > > a secret handshake!
              > > >
              > > > The hard truth is there are
              > > > more Christians that have more
              > > > and greater "spiritual" experiences
              > > > and "stories" than Eckists do!
              > > >
              > > > Plus, there are people of other
              > > > lower plane beliefs that are much
              > > > more loving than most wannabe
              > > > ECK Higher Initiates. But hey,
              > > > most people need to worship
              > > > something or someone when
              > > > they can't see the Divine light
              > > > within. This is the same for Eckists.
              > > > They've got their divine LEM Harji
              > > > and his alter ego "The Mahanta!"
              > > >
              > > > But, it's all Bullshit! I'm just amazed
              > > > that longtime H.I.s are still going
              > > > through the motions and giving lip
              > > > service to Klemp. Service and Silence...
              > > > don't complain or criticize because
              > > > the truth is that higher ups can't give
              > > > you any reasonable answers. They
              > > > side-step issues and make it into
              > > > your bad for bringing up a negative.
              > > > But why is wanting to know the
              > > > finances of the Eckankar org (your
              > > > church) a negative? Why is there no
              > > > trust from the top down? What is
              > > > Klemp afraid of?
              > > >
              > > > Prometheus
              >
            • Non
              Hi all, It occurred to me that there is one area of the world where there may be some membership growth, and that is Africa. Cults sometimes appeal to the
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 25, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi all,

                It occurred to me that there is one area of the world where there may be some membership growth, and that is Africa. Cults sometimes appeal to the desperate and economically/educationally disadvantaged. The People there may get trapped because there is often a great deal of superstition about magic and curses etc. Once in they may fear leaving.I also noticed that in their World Seminar propaganda a quote by a man that he had found out about a new karmic family from Africa. I think this white man was being racists and dishonest, IMHO.

                Non eckster ; )

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Postekcon,
                > I agree that Eckankar will gradually
                > die off but only after Klemp does.
                >
                > Once the "crazies" [those Eckists
                > wearing EMF protective underwear
                > (similar to the "Magical" underwear
                > Mormons wear)] die off there will
                > be less fanaticism, but already there
                > is less respect and obedience toward
                > the RESA structural hierarchy and
                > to the time consuming and anal EK
                > Guidelines/procedures.
                >
                > Yes, there's a lot of "grooming" or
                > modeling/molding going on since
                > there aren't a lot of new people
                > showing up for anything Eckankar.
                >
                > Thus, Eckists get to "teach" and practice
                > their speaking/leadership skills by giving
                > intros and doing their redundant (approved)
                > book discussions and EWS large and small
                > group facilitating on fellow Eckists. What
                > all this crap has to do with "spirituality"
                > on a private and subjective Soul level is
                > left vacant of real substance.
                >
                > Yes, Eckists have "surrendered" their divinity,
                > Self-Mastery, and Spiritual Freedom as Soul.
                >
                > They can do nothing except via their Mahanta...
                > their imagined intercessor, protector, and
                > guide.
                >
                > Except HK (the Mahanta) doesn't "actually"
                > intercede, protect, or guide Eckists on the
                > Lower Planes where he should have the greater
                > powers (over Kal, i.e. Satan)!
                >
                > I still can't figure out how Klemp side-steps
                > responsibility so easily. HK didn't even
                > "protect" an EK Board Member (H.I.) working
                > at the ESC from dying of cancer! Now I know
                > that the guy took his illness well and was
                > very brave and faithful to the very last etc.,
                > but so are thousands of Christians! Therefore,
                > his EK bravery and EK faith sort of losses its
                > luster as an example for the Mahanta's (Klemp's)
                > spiritual/religious wares being sold through
                > Eckankar.
                >
                > Twitchell created a very interesting little religious
                > scam which Gross and Klemp were lucky enough
                > to inherit, but the price for all via their delusions
                > and deceit was/is karmically high.
                >
                > Wouldn't one think that 30 year (plus) ECK
                > members (H.I.s) should have found Self-Mastery
                > by now! It seems Eckankar doesn't work too
                > well or deliver on its promises does it! Or,
                > are these Souls simply slow learners???
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > postekcon wrote:
                > What keeps H.I.s in ekult??
                >
                > They have been 'groomed' to never question,
                > to never criticize. They have been 'groomed'
                > to visualize, to make real, to surrender to a
                > psychic entity called 'the mahanta' so it can
                > grow and feed off their energies, with the
                > promise it will give them protection!
                >
                > But in the 70s and 80s, we didn't understand
                > this concept of 'grooming'. But today's enquirers,
                > they DO!
                >
                > In consequence, ekult will never again
                > see membership growth!
                > -Postekcon
                >
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Yes, it's incredible but true! In the June 2011
                > > H.I. Letter Klemp lists the insights and spiritual
                > > observations of a 12 year member and 3rd
                > > initiate, and HK concurs with most of what
                > > she had to say. This is why he had it printed!
                > >
                > > The following comments by Eckist "Robert"
                > > state that, "What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
                > > should be obvious - a regular flow of
                > > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
                > > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist."
                > >
                > > ME: However, if this were true then why
                > > does Klemp use the "flow of experiences"
                > > from a 3rd initiate versus H.I.s? And, Klemp
                > > has the passive/aggressive nerve to shove
                > > this crap down the throats of his H.I.s! What
                > > was he really thinking? Sure, her observations
                > > sound good, but we've heard and/or experienced
                > > it all before... in the beginning! Maybe that's
                > > the problem with H.I.s... they've become
                > > jaded via the observation process. Eckankar
                > > is just another religion that promotes belief
                > > in myth, dogma, and imagination over real
                > > world opinion. This is why Klemp and company
                > > can't handle criticism just as other religionists
                > > can't deal with it. It has come full circle for
                > > Eckists! The religious hangups and limitations
                > > they left behind for Eckankar have become
                > > those of Eckankar!
                > >
                > > Yes, Klemp hasn't really told us anything
                > > about this 3rd initiate and why this holier
                > > than thou Eckist had "negative" experiences
                > > and "misunderstandings" with her coworkers
                > > except she's been following the "Mahanta"
                > > for 12 years. Maybe that's her problem.
                > > She has blinders on and she's a fanatic!
                > >
                > > Instead, Klemp promotes the views of a 3rd
                > > initiate in the June 2011 H.I. Letter because
                > > she must know something that Higher Initiates
                > > have forgotten or have never discovered.
                > >
                > > BUT, what happened to that "Inner Guidance"
                > > from the Mahanta that all H.I.s are supposed
                > > to have? Once again HK has it the fault of the
                > > H.I.s and not himself! There's Never responsibility
                > > on Klemp's part because he's a fraud! If he did
                > > actually have supra-powers there would be
                > > no need to travel to Minneapolis for seminars
                > > or to use physical means to communicate his
                > > messages to his H.I. followers. After all, the
                > > Mahanta approves of all initiations and only
                > > those who are ready will receive the pink slip
                > > for the Higher Initiation right?
                > >
                > > In truth, the problem lies with both. Klemp
                > > (the Mahanta) is a fraud and the EK Initiations
                > > are fraudulent as well. This is why neither
                > > work, except, with the help of an active
                > > imagination and the desire to make it so.
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > > Klemp's Leadership Has Become Irrelevant:
                > >
                > > On Fri, 4/29/11, robert <signon77@> wrote:
                > >
                > > From: robert <signon77@>
                > > Subject: Re: Klemp's Eckankar Has Become Irrelevant
                > > To: "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@>
                > > Date: Friday, April 29, 2011, 11:16 AM
                > >
                > > It's quite simple really. Your mail
                > > completely ignores the spiritual reality
                > > of the ECK. What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
                > > should be obvious - a regular flow of
                > > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
                > > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist.
                > >
                > >
                > > I replied:
                > >
                > > No Bob, that's incorrect! H.I.s stay in
                > > Eckankar via the delusion that Klemp, the
                > > Mahanta, has instilled in their minds.
                > > They have given him permission to control
                > > their reality for them by believing he has
                > > mystical powers. Yet, he cannot even heal
                > > those in his inner circle.
                > >
                > > Their ekperiences and have become distorted.
                > > Klemp merely takes credit for the mind's ability
                > > to imagine, rationalize, and to dream. If there
                > > is any peek into a true "spiritual reality"
                > > it was done so by Soul and not via the false
                > > teachings of Eckankar.
                > >
                > > Those Eckists who have had a true "GOD"
                > > or "ECK" experience would, also, have
                > > the awareness to leave Eckankar's deceptions
                > > behind. This is because It would open the
                > > heart, mind and Soul to see those hidden
                > > truths that Klemp doesn't want anyone to
                > > speak of or to see. The fraud lies within
                > > the org: With where ALL the money comes
                > > and goes; with the phony initiations;
                > > with the false (prophet) Mahanta.
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > > prometheus wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > I was thinking about the goals
                > > > > and promises that bind people
                > > > > to Eckankar. Both are imaginary
                > > > > and that seems to work for many
                > > > > Eckists. But how many Eckists
                > > > > really follow the Guidelines, and
                > > > > EK teachings?
                > > > >
                > > > > How many Higher Initiates do the
                > > > > Friday Fast?
                > > > >
                > > > > How many H.I.s actually mail a
                > > > > monthly report?
                > > > >
                > > > > How many H.I.s do a 20 minute
                > > > > spiritual exercise on a daily basis?
                > > > >
                > > > > How many H.I.s are in or are teaching
                > > > > a Satsang Class?
                > > > >
                > > > > How many H.I.s are rereading an
                > > > > ECK Discourse or are doing the
                > > > > Workbook for that discourse?
                > > > >
                > > > > How many H.I.s drink alcohol or
                > > > > smoke cigarettes or cigars or
                > > > > play the lottery and gamble?
                > > > >
                > > > > See, it's just not working because
                > > > > even if a H.I. did follow all of
                > > > > the rules it doesn't matter! H.I.s
                > > > > will have the same type of dreams
                > > > > and advance, or not, in initiations.
                > > > > There's no change! They are the
                > > > > same people. It doesn't matter
                > > > > what they do! One simply becomes
                > > > > more deluded in order to justify
                > > > > 30-40 years as a member of a
                > > > > meaningless (cult) private social
                > > > > club. The only thing lacking is
                > > > > a secret handshake!
                > > > >
                > > > > The hard truth is there are
                > > > > more Christians that have more
                > > > > and greater "spiritual" experiences
                > > > > and "stories" than Eckists do!
                > > > >
                > > > > Plus, there are people of other
                > > > > lower plane beliefs that are much
                > > > > more loving than most wannabe
                > > > > ECK Higher Initiates. But hey,
                > > > > most people need to worship
                > > > > something or someone when
                > > > > they can't see the Divine light
                > > > > within. This is the same for Eckists.
                > > > > They've got their divine LEM Harji
                > > > > and his alter ego "The Mahanta!"
                > > > >
                > > > > But, it's all Bullshit! I'm just amazed
                > > > > that longtime H.I.s are still going
                > > > > through the motions and giving lip
                > > > > service to Klemp. Service and Silence...
                > > > > don't complain or criticize because
                > > > > the truth is that higher ups can't give
                > > > > you any reasonable answers. They
                > > > > side-step issues and make it into
                > > > > your bad for bringing up a negative.
                > > > > But why is wanting to know the
                > > > > finances of the Eckankar org (your
                > > > > church) a negative? Why is there no
                > > > > trust from the top down? What is
                > > > > Klemp afraid of?
                > > > >
                > > > > Prometheus
                > >
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Hello Non eckster and All, I agree with your assessment of African EK chelas. There are a lot of old superstitions, tribalism, animalism, a belief in magic,
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 25, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Non eckster and All,
                  I agree with your assessment
                  of African EK chelas. There
                  are a lot of old superstitions,
                  tribalism, animalism, a belief
                  in magic, and combining ithis
                  and Eckankar into a hodge-podge
                  of new belief.

                  The White guy's "karmic family
                  from Africa" sounds strange. I
                  wonder if they felt the same
                  about him? Eckists don't usually
                  pay attention to the other side
                  of the coin.

                  Prometheus


                  "Non" eckchains wrote:
                  Hi all,

                  It occurred to me that there is one area
                  of the world where there may be some
                  membership growth, and that is Africa.
                  Cults sometimes appeal to the desperate
                  and economically/educationally disadvantaged.
                  The People there may get trapped because
                  there is often a great deal of superstition
                  about magic and curses etc. Once in they
                  may fear leaving. I also noticed that in their
                  World Seminar propaganda a quote by a
                  man that he had found out about a new
                  karmic family from Africa. I think this white
                  man was being racists and dishonest, IMHO.

                  Non eckster ; )

                  prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Postekcon,
                  > I agree that Eckankar will gradually
                  > die off but only after Klemp does.
                  >
                  > Once the "crazies" [those Eckists
                  > wearing EMF protective underwear
                  > (similar to the "Magical" underwear
                  > Mormons wear)] die off there will
                  > be less fanaticism, but already there
                  > is less respect and obedience toward
                  > the RESA structural hierarchy and
                  > to the time consuming and anal EK
                  > Guidelines/procedures.
                  >
                  > Yes, there's a lot of "grooming" or
                  > modeling/molding going on since
                  > there aren't a lot of new people
                  > showing up for anything Eckankar.
                  >
                  > Thus, Eckists get to "teach" and practice
                  > their speaking/leadership skills by giving
                  > intros and doing their redundant (approved)
                  > book discussions and EWS large and small
                  > group facilitating on fellow Eckists. What
                  > all this crap has to do with "spirituality"
                  > on a private and subjective Soul level is
                  > left vacant of real substance.
                  >
                  > Yes, Eckists have "surrendered" their divinity,
                  > Self-Mastery, and Spiritual Freedom as Soul.
                  >
                  > They can do nothing except via their Mahanta...
                  > their imagined intercessor, protector, and
                  > guide.
                  >
                  > Except HK (the Mahanta) doesn't "actually"
                  > intercede, protect, or guide Eckists on the
                  > Lower Planes where he should have the greater
                  > powers (over Kal, i.e. Satan)!
                  >
                  > I still can't figure out how Klemp side-steps
                  > responsibility so easily. HK didn't even
                  > "protect" an EK Board Member (H.I.) working
                  > at the ESC from dying of cancer! Now I know
                  > that the guy took his illness well and was
                  > very brave and faithful to the very last etc.,
                  > but so are thousands of Christians! Therefore,
                  > his EK bravery and EK faith sort of losses its
                  > luster as an example for the Mahanta's (Klemp's)
                  > spiritual/religious wares being sold through
                  > Eckankar.
                  >
                  > Twitchell created a very interesting little religious
                  > scam which Gross and Klemp were lucky enough
                  > to inherit, but the price for all via their delusions
                  > and deceit was/is karmically high.
                  >
                  > Wouldn't one think that 30 year (plus) ECK
                  > members (H.I.s) should have found Self-Mastery
                  > by now! It seems Eckankar doesn't work too
                  > well or deliver on its promises does it! Or,
                  > are these Souls simply slow learners???
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  > postekcon wrote:
                  > What keeps H.I.s in ekult??
                  >
                  > They have been 'groomed' to never question,
                  > to never criticize. They have been 'groomed'
                  > to visualize, to make real, to surrender to a
                  > psychic entity called 'the mahanta' so it can
                  > grow and feed off their energies, with the
                  > promise it will give them protection!
                  >
                  > But in the 70s and 80s, we didn't understand
                  > this concept of 'grooming'. But today's enquirers,
                  > they DO!
                  >
                  > In consequence, ekult will never again
                  > see membership growth!
                  > -Postekcon
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Yes, it's incredible but true! In the June 2011
                  > > H.I. Letter Klemp lists the insights and spiritual
                  > > observations of a 12 year member and 3rd
                  > > initiate, and HK concurs with most of what
                  > > she had to say. This is why he had it printed!
                  > >
                  > > The following comments by Eckist "Robert"
                  > > state that, "What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
                  > > should be obvious - a regular flow of
                  > > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
                  > > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist."
                  > >
                  > > ME: However, if this were true then why
                  > > does Klemp use the "flow of experiences"
                  > > from a 3rd initiate versus H.I.s? And, Klemp
                  > > has the passive/aggressive nerve to shove
                  > > this crap down the throats of his H.I.s! What
                  > > was he really thinking? Sure, her observations
                  > > sound good, but we've heard and/or experienced
                  > > it all before... in the beginning! Maybe that's
                  > > the problem with H.I.s... they've become
                  > > jaded via the observation process. Eckankar
                  > > is just another religion that promotes belief
                  > > in myth, dogma, and imagination over real
                  > > world opinion. This is why Klemp and company
                  > > can't handle criticism just as other religionists
                  > > can't deal with it. It has come full circle for
                  > > Eckists! The religious hangups and limitations
                  > > they left behind for Eckankar have become
                  > > those of Eckankar!
                  > >
                  > > Yes, Klemp hasn't really told us anything
                  > > about this 3rd initiate and why this holier
                  > > than thou Eckist had "negative" experiences
                  > > and "misunderstandings" with her coworkers
                  > > except she's been following the "Mahanta"
                  > > for 12 years. Maybe that's her problem.
                  > > She has blinders on and she's a fanatic!
                  > >
                  > > Instead, Klemp promotes the views of a 3rd
                  > > initiate in the June 2011 H.I. Letter because
                  > > she must know something that Higher Initiates
                  > > have forgotten or have never discovered.
                  > >
                  > > BUT, what happened to that "Inner Guidance"
                  > > from the Mahanta that all H.I.s are supposed
                  > > to have? Once again HK has it the fault of the
                  > > H.I.s and not himself! There's Never responsibility
                  > > on Klemp's part because he's a fraud! If he did
                  > > actually have supra-powers there would be
                  > > no need to travel to Minneapolis for seminars
                  > > or to use physical means to communicate his
                  > > messages to his H.I. followers. After all, the
                  > > Mahanta approves of all initiations and only
                  > > those who are ready will receive the pink slip
                  > > for the Higher Initiation right?
                  > >
                  > > In truth, the problem lies with both. Klemp
                  > > (the Mahanta) is a fraud and the EK Initiations
                  > > are fraudulent as well. This is why neither
                  > > work, except, with the help of an active
                  > > imagination and the desire to make it so.
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Klemp's Leadership Has Become Irrelevant:
                  > >
                  > > On Fri, 4/29/11, robert <signon77@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > From: robert <signon77@>
                  > > Subject: Re: Klemp's Eckankar Has Become Irrelevant
                  > > To: "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@>
                  > > Date: Friday, April 29, 2011, 11:16 AM
                  > >
                  > > It's quite simple really. Your mail
                  > > completely ignores the spiritual reality
                  > > of the ECK. What keeps H.I.s in ECKANKAR
                  > > should be obvious - a regular flow of
                  > > experiences in the Light and Sound of God.
                  > > That is the essence of the life of the ECKist.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I replied:
                  > >
                  > > No Bob, that's incorrect! H.I.s stay in
                  > > Eckankar via the delusion that Klemp, the
                  > > Mahanta, has instilled in their minds.
                  > > They have given him permission to control
                  > > their reality for them by believing he has
                  > > mystical powers. Yet, he cannot even heal
                  > > those in his inner circle.
                  > >
                  > > Their ekperiences and have become distorted.
                  > > Klemp merely takes credit for the mind's ability
                  > > to imagine, rationalize, and to dream. If there
                  > > is any peek into a true "spiritual reality"
                  > > it was done so by Soul and not via the false
                  > > teachings of Eckankar.
                  > >
                  > > Those Eckists who have had a true "GOD"
                  > > or "ECK" experience would, also, have
                  > > the awareness to leave Eckankar's deceptions
                  > > behind. This is because It would open the
                  > > heart, mind and Soul to see those hidden
                  > > truths that Klemp doesn't want anyone to
                  > > speak of or to see. The fraud lies within
                  > > the org: With where ALL the money comes
                  > > and goes; with the phony initiations;
                  > > with the false (prophet) Mahanta.
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > > prometheus wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I was thinking about the goals
                  > > > > and promises that bind people
                  > > > > to Eckankar. Both are imaginary
                  > > > > and that seems to work for many
                  > > > > Eckists. But how many Eckists
                  > > > > really follow the Guidelines, and
                  > > > > EK teachings?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > How many Higher Initiates do the
                  > > > > Friday Fast?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > How many H.I.s actually mail a
                  > > > > monthly report?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > How many H.I.s do a 20 minute
                  > > > > spiritual exercise on a daily basis?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > How many H.I.s are in or are teaching
                  > > > > a Satsang Class?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > How many H.I.s are rereading an
                  > > > > ECK Discourse or are doing the
                  > > > > Workbook for that discourse?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > How many H.I.s drink alcohol or
                  > > > > smoke cigarettes or cigars or
                  > > > > play the lottery and gamble?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > See, it's just not working because
                  > > > > even if a H.I. did follow all of
                  > > > > the rules it doesn't matter! H.I.s
                  > > > > will have the same type of dreams
                  > > > > and advance, or not, in initiations.
                  > > > > There's no change! They are the
                  > > > > same people. It doesn't matter
                  > > > > what they do! One simply becomes
                  > > > > more deluded in order to justify
                  > > > > 30-40 years as a member of a
                  > > > > meaningless (cult) private social
                  > > > > club. The only thing lacking is
                  > > > > a secret handshake!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The hard truth is there are
                  > > > > more Christians that have more
                  > > > > and greater "spiritual" experiences
                  > > > > and "stories" than Eckists do!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Plus, there are people of other
                  > > > > lower plane beliefs that are much
                  > > > > more loving than most wannabe
                  > > > > ECK Higher Initiates. But hey,
                  > > > > most people need to worship
                  > > > > something or someone when
                  > > > > they can't see the Divine light
                  > > > > within. This is the same for Eckists.
                  > > > > They've got their divine LEM Harji
                  > > > > and his alter ego "The Mahanta!"
                  > > > >
                  > > > > But, it's all Bullshit! I'm just amazed
                  > > > > that longtime H.I.s are still going
                  > > > > through the motions and giving lip
                  > > > > service to Klemp. Service and Silence...
                  > > > > don't complain or criticize because
                  > > > > the truth is that higher ups can't give
                  > > > > you any reasonable answers. They
                  > > > > side-step issues and make it into
                  > > > > your bad for bringing up a negative.
                  > > > > But why is wanting to know the
                  > > > > finances of the Eckankar org (your
                  > > > > church) a negative? Why is there no
                  > > > > trust from the top down? What is
                  > > > > Klemp afraid of?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Prometheus
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