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Re: Ask the Master - December/2010 The Mystic World

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab, One purpose for having an infallible leader is to do the thinking for the flock. He s the Top Dog who knows. HK s like the Pope except the male
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 29, 2011
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      Hello Etznab,
      One purpose for having an infallible
      leader is to do the thinking for the
      flock. He's the Top Dog who "knows."
      HK's like the Pope except the male
      8ths won't have the chance to vote
      for the next one like Cardinals do.

      It does make one wonder, though,
      when Klemp made his effort to find
      the imaginary Sudar Singh versus
      the very real Kirpal Singh... Why not
      also look for and find the 500 year
      old Rebazar and the other ancient
      ECK Masters Who Are (claimed to be)
      Still Living In Their Same Physical Body!
      Or, did he send people to Tibet or
      the Hindu Kush to look for Rebazar?
      You'd think that the Mahanta would
      know where he was. Isn't he supposed
      to be in communication with him since
      Klemp is his boss? Where are these
      "Masters" except in the imagination!

      Prometheus



      etznab@... wrote:

      I wonder if this represents a common predictable evolution for
      organized religions. Whereby, instead of seeking to research and verify
      the credibility of their teachings, groups are formed that profit from
      the materials at hand (regardless whether true, or not).

      For example. IMO Eckankar had / has the resources and technology to
      research and verify what the founder, Paul Twitchell, wrote. After Paul
      died in 1971, and later when his successor Darwin Gross faced
      criticisms in the latter 70's, somebody within the organization could
      have moved to substantiate the Eckankar teachings by clarifying fact
      from fiction. IMO it is one thing to use your head, research and verify
      something for yourself vs. blindly accepting what "authority figures"
      make believe true according to what they heard.

      My guess is that a lot of Eckankar critics believe people are parroting
      the words of Paul Twitchell and basically endorsing the same potpourri
      of dogma instead of critically asking themselves (and others) whether
      the dogma is true, or not. Some parts, no doubt, probably can be taken
      as literally true concerning what Paul and others have stated with
      regard to history. That is not what seems to concern people though. The
      concern , IMO, are those parts of religious dogma that are pseudo and
      man-made. Things that - if not researched and clarified now - may morph
      into crystalized forms of pseudo dogma (taken to be literally true)
      that could be hard to budge in the future.

      To see it happening in one's lifetime - the creation of pseudo history
      and religion - could make a person feel responsible to DO SOMETHING
      about it. Especially if affiliated with, or a member of that religion.
      (For those with a conscience, perhaps.)

      Why don't people do more? And why is it that much of the research and
      investigations are done by non-members instead? My guess is that
      usually an authority figure at the top of organized religious hierarchy
      has the final say, and that most of the flock follow that person's lead
      regardless. In some cases they might not have a choice. Not when
      publicly challenging popular religious dogma may be risky, or can put
      one in disfavor with the church. Not everybody is a Martin Luther.

      Etznab

      prometheus wrote:

      Hello Diana and All,
      With Klemp in charge
      Eckankar has become
      more of a religious based
      business than a "spiritual
      path." It's a pyramid scheme
      with Klemp on top and his
      salespeople on levels below
      him. And, like most of these
      schemes, the member/sales
      person has to pay out money
      in order to advance. Except,
      ECKists pay out real money
      while Klemp gives them, in
      return, phony money and
      products in the form of
      initiations (outer and inner),
      missionary materials, words,
      and hope, faith, and belief
      via dreams, desires, as well
      as, titles/positions within the
      hierarchy.

      The redundant wording,
      trainings, techniques, and
      over all approach is to show
      the public (the gullible suckers
      as well as the EK wannabes)
      a consistency where each
      ECK Leader is on the same
      page. It's a control method.

      The delusional and embellished
      "stories," by ECKists, are also
      used to feed imaginations, alleviate
      fear, and reinforce the hope
      and promises in the EK dogma.

      Therefore, Eckankar now becomes
      a blend of Sant Mat, Hinduism,
      Sci-fi Scientology, and Christianity.

      Prometheus


      Diana Stanley wrote:
      As wth most religions fear
      is the glue that holds the the
      people together. In my day
      there was no training to be
      an Arahata you just had to
      be a 2nd initiate. I don't know
      how people keep up with the
      rules today. I can see where
      there would be a lot of fear
      and doubt that you were doing
      something wrong.
      Diana

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Q: "As an ECK Leader, I sometimes
      > have Questions about the Guidelines
      > or How to apply them in My Given
      > Area of Responsibility.
      >
      > Where do I go with my questions?
      >
      > I want to do the very best I can,
      > BUT I'm Afraid of making a mistake."
      > [my caps]
      >
      >
      >
      > ME: Well, that's an easy one!
      > But I do see your fear with displeasing
      > certain RESAs. Many, like Klemp,
      > also hold onto the past. First, it's
      > always good to follow the chain
      > of command since HK created the
      > RESA structured hierarchy.
      >
      > So, first, contact your Local Director.
      > They should be able to give you
      > a copy of your job description
      > with responsibilities.
      >
      > Also, there are other "Guidelines"
      > that can be found on Eckankar.org
      > such as those for "Volunteers."
      >
      > Or, it could be that your Local
      > Director doesn't have a copy
      > of your Job Description or that
      > knowledge.So, call your Satsang
      > President and they should be
      > able to help you.
      >
      > Of course the Easy Way is to just
      > call the RESA. It will show them
      > that you're concerned and haven't
      > been informed or that you didn't
      > have enough experience or insight
      > training and a team spirit to use
      > the chain of command or RESA
      > structure properly. Plus, how long
      > has it been that you waited to ask
      > about your responsibilities. Maybe
      > you do need more Training!
      >
      > Okay, here's Klemp's expensive
      > and non-specific answers:
      >
      > HK: "Handbook for ECK Leaders
      > (for Initiates of the Second Circle
      > and above) and Wisdom from the
      > Master on Spiritual Leadership:
      > ECK Leader's Guide (for High
      > Initiates) answer most questions
      > on spiritual leadership."
      >
      > ME: Not really. There is nothing
      > "spiritual" in these books. Klemp
      > simply directs people to either
      > call their RESA or the ESC if the
      > RESA is the problem. Klemp knows
      > nothing about the problems and
      > complexities that his slow moving
      > and inept RESA structure causes.
      >
      > HK: "For specific areas and activities,
      > you have the Outer Guidelines from
      > the Master, and you can go into
      > Contemplation to the Mahanta when
      > you have a question.
      >
      > Your Hearing depends upon your Clarity.
      > This come from Daily practice of the
      > Spiritual Exercises of ECK."
      >
      >
      > ME: Klemp is confusing ECKists
      > even more by telling them to go
      > to the Inner for Outer answers
      > when there are already Outer
      > Guidelines and Outer People in
      > place within the RESA structure
      > to consult. Klemp just doesn't
      > get it and he causes more conflict
      > with his wishy-washy and contrary
      > instructions. Too many cooks
      > spoil the soup.
      >
      > HK: "IF the answer on the Inner is
      > different from the Outer Guidelines,
      > you can always Talk To Someone
      > Higher Up Than You in the RESA
      > field structure."
      >
      > ME: So, is this where you find
      > validation or invalidation for
      > what you receive on the "Inner"
      > and from the ECK or Mahanta?
      > Someone "higher up than you
      > in the RESA field structure?"
      > A 4th Initiate might be validating
      > (or not) your "Inner" and Spiritual"
      > experiences!
      >
      > HK: "And a RESA can talk to other
      > RESAs or to the Eckankar Spiritual
      > Center for clarity as needed."
      >
      > ME: Can't 7th Initiate RESAs simply
      > go to the "INNER" for "Clarity" and
      > communicate with the LEM/Mahanta
      > for these answers? Why do answers
      > have to take place on the Outer via
      > phone or snail-mail? What's wrong
      > with this picture Klemp is painting?
      >
      > HK: "We are also simplifying all the
      > individual Guidelines to make them
      > easier to read. and use. HU Chants
      > will be the first one available in the
      > new user-friendly size and format.
      > So, look for it." [end]
      >
      >
      > ME: BTW- 1st-4ths need to pay for
      > these improved guidelines, but H.I.s
      > can download them for free on eckankar.
      > org. Isn't it funny, though, how long
      > it took Klemp to make a needed improvement
      > for something (HU Chants) that people
      > usually don't show up for! The next
      > updated Guideline should be for
      > Open Houses at ECK Centers. LOL!
      >
      > Prometheus
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