Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Tiger's Fang

Expand Messages
  • etznab18
    Just realized something. I don t know the month (in 1963) when Kirpal Singh was sent a copy of The Tiger s Fang manuscript. It now looks (to me) like a
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 8, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Just realized something. I don't know the month (in 1963) when Kirpal Singh was "sent" a copy of The Tiger's Fang manuscript. It now looks (to me) like a crucial piece of information. Something that might have gone overlooked.

      References I've seen have the word "sent". Kirpal Singh says the word "sent" and Harold Klemp says the word "sent" when talking about this subject.

      But Kirpal Singh, apparently, was in San Francisco in November 1963.
      This seems to be the time period after Paul moved to San Francisco and left Gail in Seattle. It's curious. I don't know if I've thought about this very much before.

      Gail was supposedly taken to Kirpal for initiation in 1963 - during that 1963 tour, I presume. It was the year Gail turned 21 (July) and the year a break appears in the Letters to Gail (July 1963-Jan. 1964).

      There is something else. Paul Twitchell was (apparently) writing about Eckankar publicly in the year 1963 - prior to Kirpal's arrival in Ca. Was it July 1963 when Paul wrote the "Cliff Hanger" and the "Square peg" articles that apparently mention "Eckankar"?

      All of this would make a lot more sense (to me) if Paul "sent" his manuscript to Kirpal Singh prior to July 1963. Harold Klemp mentioned a series of letters back & forth (I believe) following the manuscript
      sent to Kirpal.

      Does anybody remember having seen a reference about the month, or day in 1963 when Paul Twitchell sent his manuscript to Kirpal Singh? This information could possibly yield insight on a number of things. IMO.

      Etznab
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Etznab, For some reason I had surmised or read that Kirpal returned The Tiger s Fang to Paul in June, 1966. etznab@... wrote: Just realized something. I
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 8, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Etznab,
        For some reason I had surmised
        or read that Kirpal returned The
        Tiger's Fang to Paul in June, 1966.

        etznab@...> wrote:
        Just realized something. I don't know the month (in 1963) when Kirpal Singh was
        "sent" a copy of The Tiger's Fang manuscript. It now looks (to me) like a
        crucial piece of information. Something that might have gone overlooked.

        References I've seen have the word "sent". Kirpal Singh says the word "sent"
        and Harold Klemp says the word "sent" when talking about this subject.

        But Kirpal Singh, apparently, was in San Francisco in November 1963.
        This seems to be the time period after Paul moved to San Francisco and left Gail
        in Seattle. It's curious. I don't know if I've thought about this very much
        before.

        Gail was supposedly taken to Kirpal for initiation in 1963 - during that 1963
        tour, I presume. It was the year Gail turned 21 (July) and the year a break
        appears in the Letters to Gail (July 1963-Jan. 1964).

        There is something else. Paul Twitchell was (apparently) writing about Eckankar
        publicly in the year 1963 - prior to Kirpal's arrival in Ca. Was it July 1963
        when Paul wrote the "Cliff Hanger" and the "Square peg" articles that apparently
        mention "Eckankar"?

        All of this would make a lot more sense (to me) if Paul "sent" his manuscript to
        Kirpal Singh prior to July 1963. Harold Klemp mentioned a series of letters back
        & forth (I believe) following the manuscript
        sent to Kirpal.

        Does anybody remember having seen a reference about the month, or day in 1963
        when Paul Twitchell sent his manuscript to Kirpal Singh? This information could
        possibly yield insight on a number of things. IMO.

        Etznab
      • etznab@aol.com
        That was the return time. I was looking for when Kirpal Singh first received the manuscript. I think it was 1963, but was looking to determine the month. Just
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 9, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          That was the return time. I was looking for when Kirpal Singh first
          received the manuscript. I think it was 1963, but was looking to
          determine the month.

          Just trying to put various events from 1963 into better perspective
          based on chronological context.

          Yes, in 1966 Kirpal returned it. That's three years! Must have been a
          lot of letters back and forth in that time.

          Etznab

          -----Original Message-----
          From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, Jan 8, 2011 9:30 pm
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Tiger's Fang

           
          Hello Etznab,
          For some reason I had surmised
          or read that Kirpal returned The
          Tiger's Fang to Paul in June, 1966.

          etznab@...> wrote:
          Just realized something. I don't know the month (in 1963) when Kirpal
          Singh was
          "sent" a copy of The Tiger's Fang manuscript. It now looks (to me) like
          a
          crucial piece of information. Something that might have gone overlooked.

          References I've seen have the word "sent". Kirpal Singh says the word
          "sent"
          and Harold Klemp says the word "sent" when talking about this subject.

          But Kirpal Singh, apparently, was in San Francisco in November 1963.
          This seems to be the time period after Paul moved to San Francisco and
          left Gail
          in Seattle. It's curious. I don't know if I've thought about this very
          much
          before.

          Gail was supposedly taken to Kirpal for initiation in 1963 - during
          that 1963
          tour, I presume. It was the year Gail turned 21 (July) and the year a
          break
          appears in the Letters to Gail (July 1963-Jan. 1964).

          There is something else. Paul Twitchell was (apparently) writing about
          Eckankar
          publicly in the year 1963 - prior to Kirpal's arrival in Ca. Was it
          July 1963
          when Paul wrote the "Cliff Hanger" and the "Square peg" articles that
          apparently
          mention "Eckankar"?

          All of this would make a lot more sense (to me) if Paul "sent" his
          manuscript to
          Kirpal Singh prior to July 1963. Harold Klemp mentioned a series of
          letters back
          & forth (I believe) following the manuscript
          sent to Kirpal.

          Does anybody remember having seen a reference about the month, or day
          in 1963
          when Paul Twitchell sent his manuscript to Kirpal Singh? This
          information could
          possibly yield insight on a number of things. IMO.

          Etznab
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Etznab, It could be that Kirpal did have the Tiger s Fang manuscript for about three years. Maybe Paul gave it to Kirpal on his visit to the U.S. when
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 9, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Etznab,
            It could be that Kirpal did
            have the Tiger's Fang manuscript
            for about three years.

            Maybe Paul gave it to Kirpal
            on his visit to the U.S. when
            Gail was initiated by Kirpal.
            That seems to be a possibility.
            After all, the whole purpose
            of the manuscript was to impress
            Kirpal with Paul's bi-location
            abilities, "spiritual advancement,"
            and travel to the higher planes.
            It was simply another, typical,
            exaggeration perpetuated by
            a proven liar, conman, and wannabe.
            Look at Twitchell's long track
            record for lying and plagiarizing.

            Perhaps, this should be documented?
            The dates of Twitchell's lies and
            plagiarisms listed in a chronological
            order with certain other events.

            It was reported that Paul was upset
            that his Tiger's Fang manuscript
            hadn't been returned to him sooner.
            PT was writing to Kirpal for over a
            year to get the manuscript returned.
            I wouldn't doubt it if Kirpal wasn't
            using it to point out, to his chelas,
            the errors and trap (of ego) that
            Twit had fallen into.

            BTW- When one looks at the "Mahanta"
            lie one could ask, Why was it necessary?
            If you look at the events taking place
            over a one year period, or so, there are
            three that I can see that could have been
            the catalyst.

            1. Paul reneging on his promise to step-
            down as leader of Eckankar after Five Years.

            2. 2nd Initiate John-Roger Hinkel leaving
            Eckankar to create his own religion as its
            "Living Master" and using Paul's Discourses.

            3. The problem with Kirpal rejecting his
            Initiate Report (i.e. Tiger's Fang manuscript)
            and not returning it until 1966. However,
            the book wasn't printed until when.. circa
            1969 or 1970?

            From what I recall, the first documented
            record of Twitchell lying was in 1935 at
            age 27 when he tried to get into Who's
            Who in Kentucky by "exaggerating" and
            "twisting facts." Klemp gave us this info.

            That's why I suggested it be looked into
            what the date was for the Orion plagiarisms.
            When was this... the 1950s or early 60s?

            BTW- Prior to this, 1943(?), we have Paul
            admitting in "Difficulties OF Becoming The
            Living ECK Master" of his deceit, lying, and
            trickery while in the Navy!

            Anyway, for whatever the reasons, we can
            see a pattern of chronic lying and deceit,
            and most of the time it's all a big joke.

            That reminds me of the time Paul let a
            guy named ECK believe that was his name
            too! "ECK" was on Paul's license plate. When
            was that? 1965 or later?

            Prometheus


            Etznab wrote:

            That was the return time. I was looking for when Kirpal Singh first
            received the manuscript. I think it was 1963, but was looking to
            determine the month.

            Just trying to put various events from 1963 into better perspective
            based on chronological context.

            Yes, in 1966 Kirpal returned it. That's three years! Must have been a
            lot of letters back and forth in that time.

            Etznab

            prometheus wrote:

            Hello Etznab,
            For some reason I had surmised
            or read that Kirpal returned The
            Tiger's Fang to Paul in June, 1966.

            etznab@...> wrote:
            Just realized something. I don't know the month (in 1963) when Kirpal
            Singh was
            "sent" a copy of The Tiger's Fang manuscript. It now looks (to me) like
            a
            crucial piece of information. Something that might have gone overlooked.

            References I've seen have the word "sent". Kirpal Singh says the word
            "sent"
            and Harold Klemp says the word "sent" when talking about this subject.

            But Kirpal Singh, apparently, was in San Francisco in November 1963.
            This seems to be the time period after Paul moved to San Francisco and
            left Gail
            in Seattle. It's curious. I don't know if I've thought about this very
            much
            before.

            Gail was supposedly taken to Kirpal for initiation in 1963 - during
            that 1963
            tour, I presume. It was the year Gail turned 21 (July) and the year a
            break
            appears in the Letters to Gail (July 1963-Jan. 1964).

            There is something else. Paul Twitchell was (apparently) writing about
            Eckankar
            publicly in the year 1963 - prior to Kirpal's arrival in Ca. Was it
            July 1963
            when Paul wrote the "Cliff Hanger" and the "Square peg" articles that
            apparently
            mention "Eckankar"?

            All of this would make a lot more sense (to me) if Paul "sent" his
            manuscript to
            Kirpal Singh prior to July 1963. Harold Klemp mentioned a series of
            letters back
            & forth (I believe) following the manuscript
            sent to Kirpal.

            Does anybody remember having seen a reference about the month, or day
            in 1963
            when Paul Twitchell sent his manuscript to Kirpal Singh? This
            information could
            possibly yield insight on a number of things. IMO.

            Etznab
          • etznab@aol.com
            I d really like to look at all the old Orion publications. It could be very insightful, IMO. Thing is, they seem hard to come by and I haven t found an online
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 9, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              I'd really like to look at all the old Orion publications. It could be
              very insightful, IMO.

              Thing is, they seem hard to come by and I haven't found an online
              archive where I can read them. I looked into it, but gave up trying.

              David Lane has a number of the Orion articles I would guess. Maybe some
              day we will have access to them. I saw a website someplace that kept an
              archive of various old spiritual magazines. There were a lot of the old
              Orion issues listed, but I couldn't figure out how to read the contents
              of what they had compiled. This might have been an organization located
              in California, or affiliated with one overseas. I don't remember. In
              any case, it only listed what they had available and then you had to do
              something else to actually read the articles. I'm not sure what. And
              the Orion issues listed were not all the ones published. If I remember
              correctly, some were missing.

              Maybe I should look up that link, if I still have a bookmark for it.
              That story about The Tiger's Fang published by Orion (1960?) is hard to
              believe, but if true then I sure would like to read a copy.

              Oh, what the heck. Let me see if I can find that link. Here it is.

              http://microformguides.gale.com/Data/Download/9146000C.pdf

              About 3/4 way down the page appears the following (followed by a list
              of issues). Probably easiest to just page search (click edit, then
              find) Orion on page.

              Title: Orion Magazine
              Organization: Ural R. Murphy, Editor and Publisher
              (1956- 1962); CSA Publishers (1962-1964); Christian
              Spiritual Alliance, Inc. (1965-1973); CSA Press
              (beginning in 1973)
              Frequency: monthly (1956-1965); bimonthly (1965-
              1974); quarterly (1974-1977)
              See Also: Truth Journal
              Issues: [....]

              Notice how all the issues (of Orion) are not there. For example, only
              one issue appears for 1960.

              Vol. V No. 49 May 1960

              These are issues are supposed to be archived on microfilm (someplace),
              I believe. If anybody learns how to get access to them let me know.
              Maybe I'll try and follow up on this myself when there is time.

              Here is the linking webpage.

              http://microformguides.gale.com/Download.asp?CollDocid=9146000&page=1

              Etznab

              P.S. Notice how Christian Spiritual Alliance, Inc. (CSA) took over the
              magazine? And remember the data I posted about Roy Eugene Davis and
              CSA? Roy was an old associate of Paul Twitchell.
              Isn't that interesting?

              -----Original Message-----
              From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sun, Jan 9, 2011 1:00 pm
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Tiger's Fang

               
              Hello Etznab,
              It could be that Kirpal did
              have the Tiger's Fang manuscript
              for about three years.

              Maybe Paul gave it to Kirpal
              on his visit to the U.S. when
              Gail was initiated by Kirpal.
              That seems to be a possibility.
              After all, the whole purpose
              of the manuscript was to impress
              Kirpal with Paul's bi-location
              abilities, "spiritual advancement,"
              and travel to the higher planes.
              It was simply another, typical,
              exaggeration perpetuated by
              a proven liar, conman, and wannabe.
              Look at Twitchell's long track
              record for lying and plagiarizing.

              Perhaps, this should be documented?
              The dates of Twitchell's lies and
              plagiarisms listed in a chronological
              order with certain other events.

              It was reported that Paul was upset
              that his Tiger's Fang manuscript
              hadn't been returned to him sooner.
              PT was writing to Kirpal for over a
              year to get the manuscript returned.
              I wouldn't doubt it if Kirpal wasn't
              using it to point out, to his chelas,
              the errors and trap (of ego) that
              Twit had fallen into.

              BTW- When one looks at the "Mahanta"
              lie one could ask, Why was it necessary?
              If you look at the events taking place
              over a one year period, or so, there are
              three that I can see that could have been
              the catalyst.

              1. Paul reneging on his promise to step-
              down as leader of Eckankar after Five Years.

              2. 2nd Initiate John-Roger Hinkel leaving
              Eckankar to create his own religion as its
              "Living Master" and using Paul's Discourses.

              3. The problem with Kirpal rejecting his
              Initiate Report (i.e. Tiger's Fang manuscript)
              and not returning it until 1966. However,
              the book wasn't printed until when.. circa
              1969 or 1970?

              From what I recall, the first documented
              record of Twitchell lying was in 1935 at
              age 27 when he tried to get into Who's
              Who in Kentucky by "exaggerating" and
              "twisting facts." Klemp gave us this info.

              That's why I suggested it be looked into
              what the date was for the Orion plagiarisms.
              When was this... the 1950s or early 60s?

              BTW- Prior to this, 1943(?), we have Paul
              admitting in "Difficulties OF Becoming The
              Living ECK Master" of his deceit, lying, and
              trickery while in the Navy!

              Anyway, for whatever the reasons, we can
              see a pattern of chronic lying and deceit,
              and most of the time it's all a big joke.

              That reminds me of the time Paul let a
              guy named ECK believe that was his name
              too! "ECK" was on Paul's license plate. When
              was that? 1965 or later?

              Prometheus

              Etznab wrote:

              That was the return time. I was looking for when Kirpal Singh first
              received the manuscript. I think it was 1963, but was looking to
              determine the month.

              Just trying to put various events from 1963 into better perspective
              based on chronological context.

              Yes, in 1966 Kirpal returned it. That's three years! Must have been a
              lot of letters back and forth in that time.

              Etznab

              prometheus wrote:

              Hello Etznab,
              For some reason I had surmised
              or read that Kirpal returned The
              Tiger's Fang to Paul in June, 1966.

              etznab@...> wrote:
              Just realized something. I don't know the month (in 1963) when Kirpal
              Singh was
              "sent" a copy of The Tiger's Fang manuscript. It now looks (to me) like
              a
              crucial piece of information. Something that might have gone overlooked.

              References I've seen have the word "sent". Kirpal Singh says the word
              "sent"
              and Harold Klemp says the word "sent" when talking about this subject.

              But Kirpal Singh, apparently, was in San Francisco in November 1963.
              This seems to be the time period after Paul moved to San Francisco and
              left Gail
              in Seattle. It's curious. I don't know if I've thought about this very
              much
              before.

              Gail was supposedly taken to Kirpal for initiation in 1963 - during
              that 1963
              tour, I presume. It was the year Gail turned 21 (July) and the year a
              break
              appears in the Letters to Gail (July 1963-Jan. 1964).

              There is something else. Paul Twitchell was (apparently) writing about
              Eckankar
              publicly in the year 1963 - prior to Kirpal's arrival in Ca. Was it
              July 1963
              when Paul wrote the "Cliff Hanger" and the "Square peg" articles that
              apparently
              mention "Eckankar"?

              All of this would make a lot more sense (to me) if Paul "sent" his
              manuscript to
              Kirpal Singh prior to July 1963. Harold Klemp mentioned a series of
              letters back
              & forth (I believe) following the manuscript
              sent to Kirpal.

              Does anybody remember having seen a reference about the month, or day
              in 1963
              when Paul Twitchell sent his manuscript to Kirpal Singh? This
              information could
              possibly yield insight on a number of things. IMO.

              Etznab
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Etznab, Here s another perspective as to why Kirpal had Twitchell s Tiger s Fang (initiate report) for three years [1963-66]. As we all know Gail and
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 10, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Etznab,
                Here's another perspective
                as to "why" Kirpal had Twitchell's
                Tiger's Fang (initiate report)
                for three years [1963-66].

                As we all know Gail and Paul
                didn't start Eckankar until
                1965 [when Paul split with
                Kirpal Singh (1955-65)].

                Therefore, it's possible that
                Paul's "manuscript" was looked
                at as being an "initiate's report"
                to his Master. Plus, Paul didn't
                need to use this manuscript for
                a guide to his new religion until
                1965. Also, I'm not so sure that
                Paul was quizzing his Master
                about the Tiger's Fang report
                for the first two years. That's
                like asking for your 5th initiation.
                It's not done, and everyone knows
                better. Thus, I think that Paul
                probably tried getting it back
                for about 6 months to a year.

                Anyway, we could always put
                these approximate dates and
                conclusions down until it's proven
                otherwise. It's close enough.
                Besides, it's mostly just for us
                since Eckists don't even believe
                the indisputable facts that PT
                was a liar and conman and that
                he and Gail created Eckankar
                in 1965 without any ancient
                lineage of EK Masters and that
                Kirpal Singh was his true Master
                versus the imaginary Rebazar.

                All religions are bullshit and
                Eckankar is just a fresher pile
                of crap!

                Prometheus



                prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Etznab,
                > It could be that Kirpal did
                > have the Tiger's Fang manuscript
                > for about three years.
                >
                > Maybe Paul gave it to Kirpal
                > on his visit to the U.S. when
                > Gail was initiated by Kirpal.
                > That seems to be a possibility.
                > After all, the whole purpose
                > of the manuscript was to impress
                > Kirpal with Paul's bi-location
                > abilities, "spiritual advancement,"
                > and travel to the higher planes.
                > It was simply another, typical,
                > exaggeration perpetuated by
                > a proven liar, conman, and wannabe.
                > Look at Twitchell's long track
                > record for lying and plagiarizing.
                >
                > Perhaps, this should be documented?
                > The dates of Twitchell's lies and
                > plagiarisms listed in a chronological
                > order with certain other events.
                >
                > It was reported that Paul was upset
                > that his Tiger's Fang manuscript
                > hadn't been returned to him sooner.
                > PT was writing to Kirpal for over a
                > year to get the manuscript returned.
                > I wouldn't doubt it if Kirpal wasn't
                > using it to point out, to his chelas,
                > the errors and trap (of ego) that
                > Twit had fallen into.
                >
                > BTW- When one looks at the "Mahanta"
                > lie one could ask, Why was it necessary?
                > If you look at the events taking place
                > over a one year period, or so, there are
                > three that I can see that could have been
                > the catalyst.
                >
                > 1. Paul reneging on his promise to step-
                > down as leader of Eckankar after Five Years.
                >
                > 2. 2nd Initiate John-Roger Hinkel leaving
                > Eckankar to create his own religion as its
                > "Living Master" and using Paul's Discourses.
                >
                > 3. The problem with Kirpal rejecting his
                > Initiate Report (i.e. Tiger's Fang manuscript)
                > and not returning it until 1966. However,
                > the book wasn't printed until when.. circa
                > 1969 or 1970?
                >
                > From what I recall, the first documented
                > record of Twitchell lying was in 1935 at
                > age 27 when he tried to get into Who's
                > Who in Kentucky by "exaggerating" and
                > "twisting facts." Klemp gave us this info.
                >
                > That's why I suggested it be looked into
                > what the date was for the Orion plagiarisms.
                > When was this... the 1950s or early 60s?
                >
                > BTW- Prior to this, 1943(?), we have Paul
                > admitting in "Difficulties OF Becoming The
                > Living ECK Master" of his deceit, lying, and
                > trickery while in the Navy!
                >
                > Anyway, for whatever the reasons, we can
                > see a pattern of chronic lying and deceit,
                > and most of the time it's all a big joke.
                >
                > That reminds me of the time Paul let a
                > guy named ECK believe that was his name
                > too! "ECK" was on Paul's license plate. When
                > was that? 1965 or later?
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > Etznab wrote:
                >
                > That was the return time. I was looking for when Kirpal Singh first
                > received the manuscript. I think it was 1963, but was looking to
                > determine the month.
                >
                > Just trying to put various events from 1963 into better perspective
                > based on chronological context.
                >
                > Yes, in 1966 Kirpal returned it. That's three years! Must have been a
                > lot of letters back and forth in that time.
                >
                > Etznab
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello Etznab,
                > For some reason I had surmised
                > or read that Kirpal returned The
                > Tiger's Fang to Paul in June, 1966.
                >
                > etznab@ wrote:
                > Just realized something. I don't know the month (in 1963) when Kirpal
                > Singh was
                > "sent" a copy of The Tiger's Fang manuscript. It now looks (to me) like
                > a
                > crucial piece of information. Something that might have gone overlooked.
                >
                > References I've seen have the word "sent". Kirpal Singh says the word
                > "sent"
                > and Harold Klemp says the word "sent" when talking about this subject.
                >
                > But Kirpal Singh, apparently, was in San Francisco in November 1963.
                > This seems to be the time period after Paul moved to San Francisco and
                > left Gail
                > in Seattle. It's curious. I don't know if I've thought about this very
                > much
                > before.
                >
                > Gail was supposedly taken to Kirpal for initiation in 1963 - during
                > that 1963
                > tour, I presume. It was the year Gail turned 21 (July) and the year a
                > break
                > appears in the Letters to Gail (July 1963-Jan. 1964).
                >
                > There is something else. Paul Twitchell was (apparently) writing about
                > Eckankar
                > publicly in the year 1963 - prior to Kirpal's arrival in Ca. Was it
                > July 1963
                > when Paul wrote the "Cliff Hanger" and the "Square peg" articles that
                > apparently
                > mention "Eckankar"?
                >
                > All of this would make a lot more sense (to me) if Paul "sent" his
                > manuscript to
                > Kirpal Singh prior to July 1963. Harold Klemp mentioned a series of
                > letters back
                > & forth (I believe) following the manuscript
                > sent to Kirpal.
                >
                > Does anybody remember having seen a reference about the month, or day
                > in 1963
                > when Paul Twitchell sent his manuscript to Kirpal Singh? This
                > information could
                > possibly yield insight on a number of things. IMO.
                >
                > Etznab
                >
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.