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Klemp's 1983 Personal and Confidential Letter to Gross

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  • prometheus_973
    This is Harold Klemp s [HK] 1983 Personal & Confidential Letter to Darwin Gross [DG] with Gross response. Klemp is discrediting Darwin s validity as an ECK
    Message 1 of 35 , Jan 4, 2011
      This is Harold Klemp's [HK] 1983 Personal
      & Confidential Letter to Darwin Gross [DG]
      with Gross' response.

      Klemp is discrediting Darwin's validity as an ECK
      Master due to and regarding DG's past conduct.

      However, one wonders the timeline of the misconduct
      since Klemp was initiated by Gross, as LEM, on Oct. 22,
      1981. When, then, did Gross become a "Black Magician?"

      BTW- Gross' responses, to HK's comments, are
      written, as notations, on various parts of the Letter
      including the margins and with an ink pen versus a
      ballpoint. This factor, along with DG's handwriting
      style, has caused me to make educated/logical guesses
      (in some cases) as to the exact word DG is using in
      his reply. However, I also look at the context of Klemp's
      remarks (overall) in order to determine the context of
      Gross' reply.

      Also, I am putting into CAPS everything that Darwin
      Gross, (DG), has "UNDERLINED" or "CIRCLED" in
      Klemp's letter.

      These seem to be key points that Gross is reacting
      to. The (below) beginning comments were written
      by DG at the top of HK's letter.

      Note: "EK A Universal Teaching" was printed on the
      bottom of the first page of Klemp's letter.

      ###

      [DG]: It is my belief that all this ruckus was based on ill
      suspicion by you, Harold and passed on to the Board and
      8th's as a power play when all was necessary was to talk
      about it for you know within your own heart you have
      harbored ill feelings which I would have gladly aided you
      had you asked.

      [HK]: "Personal and Confidential – September 15, 1983

      Darwin Gross
      P.O. Box 837
      Corvallis, Oregon 97339

      Dear Darwin, As the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master,
      it is my duty to write you with regard to actions you
      have taken which are CONTRAY TO THE TENETS

      [DG]: How?

      [HK]: and doctrine of the sacred teachings
      of Eckankar and which are not in the best
      interests of the chelas. As the Shariyat-Ki-
      Sugmad states:

      [DG]: I've bent over backwards to help you, you nor the Board
      asked 1 question.

      [HK]: The Divine Dreamer sends out Its dreams to man via
      The Mahanta, the Living Eck Master…. (Book II, p.7)

      [DG]: P.T. is the Mahanta to 1,000 years yet.

      [HK]: … the Sugmad takes control of all life through ITS
      counterparts such as the Eck, the Lords, Rulers, and
      Governors, of each plane, and the Eck Masters of the
      Vairagi, and those beings who are co-workers of ITSELF.
      All these work through and with the Mahanta, the Living
      Eck Master…. (p.60)

      [HK]: Your ACTIONS have circumvented my spiritual authority.
      The communications you have instigated with the membership
      have been needlessly creating DISHARMONY and have been
      MISLEADING. You would not tolerate such activity during
      your Mastership and I have a similar responsibility `to defend
      the works of Eck and the chelas who have put their interest in
      Eck.' (From your June 1972 Wisdom Notes and the Shariyat-
      Ki-Sugmad, Book I, p.101)

      [DG]: What actions? I have been quiet & secluded until
      you removed my secretary using. The accusations here are
      H.K.'s not wishing to tell the truth.

      [HK]: You should clearly understand the CONFLICT you
      are generating within some chelas. The Shariyat I states,
      `NEITHER CAN ANYONE FOLLOW TWO OR MORE
      MASTERS AT THE SAME TIME.' (p.82) This is why it
      is so often repeated in the ECK teachings that the Living
      Eck Master, the holder of the Rod of Power, the Mahanta,
      is the final arbiter on all matters physical and spiritual
      regarding the Eck teachings. Again, from the Shariyat I:

      [DG]: I'm of the mind you and the Board did this. This
      is a misquote. It is up to the individual which EK master
      he looks to.

      [HK]: `… the Eckist finds there is only ONE MAHANTA
      WITHIN EACH LIFETIME

      [DG]: Which was established in Paul Twitchell for all time.

      [HK]: of every Soul spent within the universe. All other Eck
      Masters in the Order of the Vairagi, the Brotherhood of Eck
      Masters, are know as the Maharaj.

      Every Maharaj is subordinate to the Living Eck Master no
      matter whom he might be, for the Mahanta holds the ECK
      Rod of Power… The Mahanta holds this Rod of Power until
      he is translated into an esoteric

      [DG]: Harold, Please Re-read the Book 2 (S-K) of the Ninth
      for you were assisting.

      [HK]: position within the Order of the Vairagi somewhere
      within the universes as a spiritual worker or greater importance.
      Then he, too, is a member of this hierarchy where before he
      was the head of it and responsible directly to the Sugmad.
      The Maharajs are know as the Silent Ones….' (p.160)

      [DG]: Start issuing out the succor and get on with the Spiritual,
      Darn it.

      *[ME]: I Cannot find this quote about the "MAHARAJS, the
      SILENT ONES" in my Shariyat 1&2 anywhere! Klemp must
      have edited this out! Klemp's Eckankar Lexicon states:
      MAHARAJ - THE BROTHERHOOD OF ECK MASTERS, SUBORDINATE
      TO THE MAHANTA, THE LIVING ECK MASTER WHO HOLDS
      THE ROD OF ECK POWER (pg.131).

      How can members of the BROTHERHOOD of ECK MASTERS
      (Order of Vairagi) be the NINE `SILENT ONES!' See, this is
      more proof of Twitchell's made-up religion and scam, and of
      Klemp's cover-up by Re-editing Twitchell's works!


      [HK]: I am not unaware that `having attained the stature of the
      Eck Master, it is found that there yet lies beyond, higher and
      even higher stages of spiritual evolution.' (Shariyat II, p.75)
      But, `the Eck Masters live mainly in seclusion' (Shariyat II,
      p.105).

      [DG]: That is each EK Master's Decision.

      [HK]: `All the Masters of Eckankar generally live in a RETREAT
      or inaccessible places,

      [DG]: You kicked me out of mine and cancelled my Life
      Time Agreement.

      [HK]: or, if in the Western countries, every effort is made to
      conceal their identity. Their presence is universal; in India,
      Tibet, Egypt, China, Lebanon, Cyprus, Hungary, and other
      nations of the world.

      However, THERE IS ONLY one Mahanta, the Living
      ECK Master, WHO HAS CHARGE OVER ALL….'
      (Shariyat II, p.77)

      [DG] Not in the Spiritual Planes! Sorry, the Sugmad has it.
      You want me to lie, huh?! No way…

      [HK]: It is meant for the Living Eck Master, THE MAHANTA,
      TO HAVE THE LAST WORD IN THE RUNNING OF THE
      PHYSICAL ORGANIZATION OF ECKANKAR.

      [DG]: P.T. Spiritually. This is up to the Board – Not L.E.M.

      *[ME]: As I see it this is the chief flaw with Darwin's whole
      perspective, AND which Klemp took advantage of and corrected!
      The Top Dog Mahanta s/b the sole authority over everything
      Eckankar and Darwin should have seen this! LOL! The tenure
      of the Board of Eckankar members is (now) for a one year
      period, however, they can be replaced at any given time, and
      for whatever reason, by the LEM/Mahanta. The votes and input
      by the BOARD are at the pleasure of the LEM/Mahanta and
      can be rejected at anytime, for any reason, or for no reason!

      [HK]: You should know as well as I that this authority IS
      BESTOWED FOR DEEPLY SPIRITUAL REASONS, and
      not for personal or material factors.

      [DG]: Not true.

      [HK]: No other past Eck Master in Eckankar's history has
      SOUGHT TO EXERT CONTROL OVER THE PHYSICAL
      VEHICLE OF THE SACRED TEACHING PAST HIS TIME.

      [DG]: This is not true.

      [HK]: The rumors and negative gossip are not emanating from
      the direction of the Eckankar Office. If you are concerned
      about such gossip and rumors perhaps you should take note of
      your previous teaching:

      [DG]: What about yours & the phone calls? and other statements
      made of me which where false & defamatory from you & the
      new Board of trustees.

      `By involving themselves in such gossip, Eckists are taking
      on karmic ties with the individuals they are judging and they
      may be sorry they started it.' (your May/June 1980 Mystic
      World article entitled "Criticizing Others")

      As you further wrote in that same article,

      `I have written personal letters to certain individuals asking
      them to stop their bickering and work together harmoniously
      in their communities and they don't seem to realize the hard-
      ships they are creating by ignoring the requests of the Living
      Eck Master'

      [DG]: Come on, Harold Let's work together!

      [HK]: My letter to the membership and other communications
      from the office have been healing in nature – your actions have
      not been so.

      [DG]: Not true. My H.I. & personal mail stops at the EK office.
      You need to talk and look for yourself in the Physical world
      of the much unrest amongst the membership.

      [HK]: As the physical and spiritual leader of Eckankar,
      I AM THE ONE WHO DECIDES WHAT COMMUNICATIONS
      ARE MAILED TO THE CHELAS AND TO THE PUBLIC
      FROM ECKANKAR – not a past Eck master. This is consistent
      entirely with my role and the role of the Living Eck Master
      throughout time.

      [DG]: This is not true for I have a Spiritual and Physical
      Responsibility to many initiates in ECKANKAR. Also Stop
      Editing my articles Please. It is only truth of the Boards action
      that I wished to let the membership know of. This is our
      responsibility.

      *[ME]: My reply to Klemp: The only "throughout time" began
      with Twitchell. HK bought into the LIE with the rest of us,
      however, at some point-in-time he discovered the truth which
      he has kept hidden as he became more powerful and, thus, HK
      perpetuates the LIE of Eckankar even further for his own benefit
      and ego.



      [HK]: Eckankar doctrine is something which falls EXCLUSIVELY
      UNDER MY JURISDICTION, TO USE LANGUAGE YOUR LAWYER
      MIGHT UNDERSTAND.

      [DG]: Not true. This is a free world where free speech and
      movement is regarded highly.

      [HK]: Neither he, or any judge, or any past Living Eck Master,
      has any authority in the area. Rebazar Tarzs does not need a
      special mailing to communicat with Eck chelas, nor does
      Yaubl Sacabi, Fubbi Quantz, or Peddar Zaskq. They understand
      their role to assist me in the work that needs to be done.
      THERE IS NO NEED FOR YOU TO WRITE A FOUR-PAGE
      LETTER TO CHELAS ATTEMPTING TO JUSTIFY YOUR
      ACTIONS. An Eck master has no trouble spiritually with those
      in his charge.

      [DG]: Only to let the truth be known. What did I do wrong?
      Four authors is in true if edited Word only. Please read them.

      *[ME]: My reply to Klemp: Why Does Klemp, himself, STILL
      Need OUTER mailings or OUTER Trainings, Guidelines,
      Discourses, Member Only Books, Rules, Newsletters, etc. for
      the Mahanta Klemp to communicate with his Chelas? He says
      REBAZAR doesn't need mailings and, therefore, Gross shouldn't
      need mailings to communicate! HK doesn't practice what he
      preaches does he! He talks the talk, but can't walk the walk
      himself because HK (the Mahanta) IS A FRAUD! Imagination
      & Dreams are common and universal with everyone in the world
      and the Religions take advantage of these facts! After 25 years,
      Due to his layering of lies, HK is even lower, in consciousness,
      than when he began! Just look at the CON of these other Modern
      Day Godmen!!! ECKists need to Shift their perspective in order
      to see the Truth "behind the curtain" of their own religion too!

      [HK]: At this point, Darwin, you have shown that you do not
      know of the doctrinal rules of the Living Eck Master and prior
      Living Eck Masters. These prior Living Eck Masters are working
      quietly and harmoniously behind the scenes.

      [DG]: I do Know of The Doctrinal Rules of ECK. This is
      why I have been quiet!!!

      *[ME]: Klemp continues the delusion/illusion and scam
      by stating that there were "prior" LEMs versus only PT
      and DG!

      [HK]: I leave open the possibility that this matter will heal
      and that you once again can handle the responsibilities
      involved with the assisting me, the Mahanta, the Living Eck
      Master.

      [DG]: You do not decide how or what I do with my life. DG
      I had stepped aside 2 years ago with Full Awareness of my
      Responsibilities to the L.E.M. I have not, Nor Planned to split
      the membership as I stated in a letter to the Board, I Joined
      hands with you (H.K.) to resolved this misunderstanding and
      you Refused to Join me in this attempt to stop all the rumors.
      DG

      All I have asked for is The Truth to be quoted and the Life Time
      Agreement Between ECKANKAR and Sri Darwin Gross Ful
      Filled. However, the Board Knows No Human decency nor
      Ethics as we have put forth to the World in EK. What you do
      to me you do to Sri Paul Twitchell and all of the EK Masters-
      including yourself. I've always been ready to sit down and
      work out any differences between us. Please let us help those
      who need help. DG

      *[ME]: Once again, Gross makes the mistake of giving the
      ECKANKAR Board of Officers and Trustees too much
      power. Klemp quickly corrected this flaw! After all, how
      can anyone have authority over the 14th circle Mahanta!!!

      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, I just read this info on Darwin in a private email: Darwin also married Carole Roddick from London England in early 80s. Marriage may have lasted
      Message 35 of 35 , Jan 9, 2011
        Hello All,
        I just read this info on
        Darwin in a private email:

        "Darwin also married Carole Roddick
        from London England in early 80s.
        Marriage may have lasted up to 1yr.
        (I know this first hand, as met her
        several times when she was D's wife)
        After marriage fell apart, Carole left
        ekult. Following this, I heard (third
        hand) she had many mental health
        issues (not surprising, eh!)"
        -anonymous


        prometheus_wrote:
        >
        > Hello Diana,
        > Yes, Darwin's wife, in 1981,
        > was from Norway.
        >
        > DG and his wife, Sirpa, had dinner
        > with Harold and Marge at "Mama's"
        > in Los Altos at the Stanford Mall
        > on Saturday September 19, 1981
        > at 7:30 p.m. [Soul Travelers of the
        > Far Country, pg. 200]
        >
        >
        > On page 159 Klemp states this:
        >
        > "He (Darwin Gross) remained the
        > agent of the SUGMAD until Oct.
        > 22, 1981. By 1983, however,
        > events caught up to him; his
        > spiritual insubordination led to
        > hus removal from the Order of
        > Vairagi Adepts."
        >
        >
        > HOWEVER, isn't it true that
        > Darwin had "fallen" years prior
        > to Oct. 22, 1981 let alone 1983?
        >
        > Were/are the so-called ECK
        > Vairagi Adepts like the "Pinball
        > Wizard" Blind, Deaf, and Dumb?
        >
        > Since Diana Stanley has testified
        > that Darwin had, obviously, fallen
        > from Sugmad's Grace via actions
        > unbecoming to an ECK Master,
        > prior to 1981, this means that
        > Klemp is not, legally, the LEM
        > or the Mahanta.
        >
        > Perhaps this is why Klemp attempts
        > to rewrite history and uses the
        > imaginary Rebazar as a backup
        > singer (HUer) or fill-in ECK Master?
        >
        > The problem is that Rebazar
        > will/can never testify that this
        > is, in fact, the case! LOL! The
        > really big problem that Klemp
        > has using the Rebazar excuse
        > is that RT is not supposed to be
        > an angelic like or invisible being.
        > Rebazar is actually supposed
        > to have a 500 year old Physical
        > Body. So, where is he? Have him
        > show up at a Seminar! After all,
        > Klemp's the Mahanta and is RT's
        > boss! If RT doesn't show up then
        > fire him for insubordination!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > dianastanley wrote:
        > For me Etznab it was a dark time because from 71 to 82, I slowly went from a
        > true believer to finally knowing the truth. For me the truth was slowy unvailed.
        > First it was rumors then as I was included in the inner circle of people Darwin
        > liked and was compforable with,I began to see first hand Darwin deteriate into a
        > very sick man.
        >
        > I saw him drunk and knew several of his girlfriends.
        >
        > Once at a HI talk at the menlo office,which he did on Fridays, He was talking
        > about going overseas to the World Wide seminar. He said------can't go with me as
        > she is too frail to travel now. So it was no secret to us that he was having an
        > affair with ------.
        >
        > When this lady found out he was a fake,she dropped him and left Eckankar. He
        > then briefly married her friend who was also from overseas. I think it lasted a
        > few months. Then I was told he married an airline stuardess. I don't know if
        > that is true or not. Between and during marrages he had affairs. I personaly
        > knew some of the women, it was so sad. They believed they were chosen by the
        > Mahanta. Kind of like sarificial virgins.
        >
        > oh dear I am starting to rant agin
        > Diana
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Etznab,
        > > I don't see how someone can say that
        > > 1979-81 were "the darkest years" ever
        > > experienced to be an Eckist. However,
        > > I don't know exactly when Darwin began
        > > his womanizing, drinking, drug behaviours.
        > >
        > > Maybe Diana can pin this down as to
        > > when this started? Was it when he was
        > > still married to Gail or afterwards? Also,
        > > I wonder "why" they divorced and who's
        > > idea it was? Gail still hung around for
        > > awhile after the divorce and was even
        > > given an "atta girl" plaque by Darwin.
        > >
        > > IMO 1983-84 were the most difficult and
        > > "darkest" years for Eckists [Until Klemp
        > > officially made Eckankar a "Religion" and
        > > created the "RESA" Police].
        > >
        > > I recall that at the 1982 EWWS (in San Fran)
        > > that both DG & HK were on stage together
        > > and most of us were thinking, cool, two ECK
        > > Masters! That's better than just one!
        > >
        > > However, by the time the (Easter) Creative Arts
        > > Festival (a.k.a. EK Youth Seminar) came in 1983
        > > (held in St. Louis) one could see that there were
        > > definitely two separate camps. After the seminar
        > > I had what Eckists call a "Waking Dream" or in
        > > this case a prophecy experience. While walking
        > > to my car I found an 8x10 glossy black and white
        > > photo of Darwin, in a tux, blowing across the
        > > parking lot. Of course, as an Eckist, I was looking
        > > at the hidden meaning of this and wondered if
        > > Darwin would soon be outside of Eckankar and
        > > down in the dirt, so to speak.
        > >
        > > The way the two EK Masters reacted to each
        > > other, the suspicion, and the tension in the
        > > air really made people wonder what was going
        > > on. I remember that I had Darwin sign something
        > > for me, (maybe a record). And, of course, his
        > > entourage was there lined up on the stage with
        > > him. I thought it was odd that he had to bend
        > > over for each of us, but it did give them a higher
        > > elevation to observe people. I did notice there
        > > was another small group observing everything
        > > from the back of the hall. Later, I was volunteering
        > > in the children's room and Harold, of course,
        > > came by. HK looked over at me and gave me
        > > what I perceived as a sort of a frown or a scowl.
        > > It made me wonder what I had done to deserve
        > > that "look" from the LEM. Of course, later, it
        > > made me think that I and others had been observed
        > > hanging with DG and his band of heros (or zeros).
        > > Guilt by association?!
        > >
        > > Anyway, by 1984 the schism was in full swing
        > > and Eckists had left by the droves. This was the
        > > biggest loss of members ever! That's why I say
        > > that 1979-1981 wasn't the worst of times and
        > > "the darkest years" to be an Eckist. For the majority
        > > of members it was 1983-84... later, it began around
        > > 1985-87 when Klemp was doing his rewrites of
        > > EK history and a recreation of Eckankar. Every
        > > so many years HK has added more restrictions
        > > and hoops for Eckists to jump through.
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > >
        > > etznab@ wrote:
        > > Do the math.
        > >
        > > When did David Lane start writing his term paper?
        > >
        > > How about 1977?
        > >
        > > "Sensing the damage that the publication of David Lane's research would
        > > have on Eckankar, its lawyer, Alan Nichols, attempted to refute the
        > > charge that Paul [Paul Twitchell] had plagiarized the works of Julian
        > > Johnson. [....]"
        > >
        > > Ford Johnson, Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to Higher
        > > Consciousness, p. 124
        > >
        > > When did David Lane finish his manuscript and copies of it "circulated"
        > > to a number of different Eckists?
        > >
        > > How about 1978?
        > >
        > > When did Darwin announce his and Gail's divorce?
        > >
        > > Again. How about 1978?
        > >
        > > When did Gail allegedly have a conversation with Ann Arnold about
        > > Eckankar over a dinner?
        > >
        > > How about 1978?
        > >
        > > *******************************************************
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > "[....] The time period between 79 and 81 would be the darkest years
        > > that any of us had experienced since we were in ECK. [....]"
        > >
        >
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