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Re: The Tiger's Fang

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  • dianastanley43
    ... I was told Paul had several girl friends. A friend of Anyas told me she was with Paul when he died. I believe it was at a seminar but not sure. I know when
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Diana,
      > So who was Paul's girl friend while
      > Darwin was messing around with
      > Gail? Was it Anya Foos-Graber?
      >
      > I figured they weren't getting along
      > well when Paul made some negative
      > comments about marriage in a series
      > of 1971 interviews for "Difficulties
      > of Becoming the LEM." [pgs. 24-25]
      >
      > Actually Paul didn't come out with
      > the term "Mahanta" in print until
      > the Jan. 1, 1969 (monthly) The Wisdom
      > Notes.
      >
      > I can see how Darwin confused Clairon
      > with Venus. Lies are harder to remember
      > than the truth.
      >
      > That's interesting how paul picked that
      > number 971 out of thin air. Now we know
      > why.
      >
      > BTW- Can you mention anything else
      > about Gail and her Sunasu Vitamin scam?
      > Paul made a big deal about Not selling
      > them in Satsangs and about a guy wanting
      > to come in to sell them. I guess she had
      > to get rid of Paul in order to have Darwin
      > bring them into ECK Centers and Satsangs!
      >
      > Also, can you mention anything about
      > that creepy John Roger Hinkins. He was
      > the 2nd initiate that used Paul's discourses
      > for his own religion. Like Paul, he thought
      > he knew more than others, and didn't want
      > to climb up the ladder slowly. I think he
      > saw through the scam and wanted his own.
      > He wanted to create his own religion and
      > pounce upon the first opportunity... like
      > Twit did with Kirpal when he wasn't being
      > promoted fast enough.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > dianastanley wrote:
      >
      > Darwin did tell me he was from Venus but
      > of course he could't keep his story straight,
      > he was under the influence and I'm sure it
      > influenced his memory.
      >
      > I was told that 971 was Pauls address in
      > San Diego and Tarz was a street in the
      > town. That was were he got the idea of
      > being the 971 Mahanta.
      >
      > I was told that Dr. Booth(I think that was
      > his name) wrote most of the herb book.
      > He would have girls come to his house
      > so he could diagnos their bodies or aura
      > to see what herbs they needed. He would
      > have them undress so he could look at
      > them. This was told to me by a close friend
      > who had it done to her. She had no reason
      > to lie and was a loyal Eckist.
      >
      > It seems the more i get into this posting,
      > stray and random memories are coming
      > to me, That have nothing to do with what
      > was asked. So I just post them maybe
      > someone has questions about these things.
      > Many of you were most likly not in Eckankar
      > in those days. I think it sets the tone of what
      > it was like for me back then.
      >
      > Diana
      >
      > prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello Diana,
      > > > I should say here that regardless
      > > > of Doug Marman's opinions Kirpal
      > > > finally returned "The Tiger's
      > > > Fang" Manuscript (not book) to
      > > > Paul in or around June, 1966.
      > > >
      > > > There was no mention of "Rebazar"
      > > > in the original manuscript. Kirpal
      > > > was Paul's real Master and this
      > > > was the name he mentioned. Paul
      > > > substituted "Rebazar" for "Kirpal"
      > > > after they had a falling out about
      > > > Paul's exaggerations where he
      > > > tried to place both himself and
      > > > Kirpal on pedestals above all
      > > > others in the imaginary worlds
      > > > he had created. Kirpal wouldn't
      > > > have any of Paul's bullshit because
      > > > he hadn't paid his dues, so to speak,
      > > > and was a Westerner who, obviously,
      > > > needed to feed his huge ego.
      > > >
      > > > Twit had an agenda and Kirpal saw
      > > > through it and wasn't going to be
      > > > used to validate Paul's scam. That's
      > > > why PT created Rebazar. This way
      > > > no one could really challenge him
      > > > since this "Master" only appears to
      > > > him. Of course, now, this imaginary
      > > > character appears in the dreams of
      > > > many Eckists. However, Klemp has
      > > > to validate and approve (in writing
      > > > or verbally in seminar talks) of what
      > > > has been seen and said. Rebazar isn't
      > > > permitted to hand anyone else the
      > > > Rod of ECK Power... even to hold
      > > > for a few seconds!
      > > >
      > > > BTW- I thought Darwin stated that
      > > > he was from "Clarion" and not Venus.
      > > >
      > > > Yes, it is funny the amount of crap
      > > > that we try to believe in or accept
      > > > because it's convenient and easy
      > > > to do so because the Truth would
      > > > hurt us. Klemp tells Eckists to take
      > > > a "Leap of Faith" and to use their
      > > > "imaginations." How does that one
      > > > EK song go, "Life life is only a dream... "
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > dianastanley wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript
      > > > to Kirpal Singh and Kirpal said it was
      > > > not accurate as far as most of the content.
      > > > That was the end of his relationship
      > > > with Kirpal!
      > > >
      > > > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings
      > > > they were all from his very vivid imagination.
      > > >
      > > > The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons
      > > > of Time" are pure Si Fi.
      > > >
      > > > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran.
      > > > He wanted me to a comic book on him.
      > > > He rambled so much I could"nt take notes.
      > > > He did tell me he was originaly from Venus.
      > > >
      > > > Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
      > > > ever was made.
      > > >
      > > > At that time I still believed in Eckankar
      > > > and so it was very confusing to me. I had
      > > > to do some mental gymnastics so I could
      > > > still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud
      > > > yet. It's amazing what one will do to keep
      > > > something you believe in with all your heart
      > > > true. I said to my self "He's the Mahanta
      > > > so I should'nt judge him" The Kal is making
      > > > me doubt him.
      > > >
      > > > This was an experience that served me
      > > > well in the future to question and investigate
      > > > befor I decide if something is true or not.
      > > >
      > > > Diana
      >

      I was told Paul had several girl friends. A friend of Anyas told me she was with Paul when he died. I believe it was at a seminar but not sure.
      I know when I worked in the Vegas office(befor we moved to menlo) They were shipping Sunasu from the shipping dept. Then they stopped as they did'nt want to get cought because Eckankar was a non profit religion and SunaSu was definitly a Product.
      Gail told me Paul developed SunaSu so she would have her own way of making a living. one time I got sick and Darwin had Gail send me a years supply monthly. I tried them and they didn't agree with me. So I would give them to other people.
      When I was living with Helen,Jhon Rogers sent me a money order for $20 and a letter, to tell the truth I can't even remember what it was about. Helen said to keep jt for evidence. I had no idea what she was taking about and she would'nt give me any details. I did'nt even know about the proublems they were having with him or even who he was.
      I was'nt paticulary interested as I was painting the passing of the Rod of Power at that time.
      They decided to make it into a print to sell to the Eckist. So even though they destroyed the painting I am sure there are still prints of it out there. Of course some of the Eckist proubly burned thier copies as well.
      About ten years ago An Eckist wrote to me and asked if I had any prints of it left.( I was selling prints of my latest paintings)They had nothing to do with anything Eck. I had one print so I sent it to him.
      I kept a copy of all the prints and book covers I did for Eck. I have one comic book left. If I can figure out how to put photos on here I will show some of the Comic Strips I did of Talons of Time. They were pretty good if I do say so my self!
      It's fun talking to you guys.
      Diana

      Diana
    • etznab@aol.com
      If Rebazar was not in the original T.F. manuscript I would say Paul did more than just edit out Kirpal s name. I would say Paul created pseudo history and
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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        If Rebazar was not in the original T.F. manuscript
        I would say Paul did more than just edit out Kirpal's
        name. I would say Paul created pseudo history and
        religion that is now a part of Eckankar dogma.

        In my research I thought that Paul reportedly gave
        a copy of his T.F. manuscript to at least two, maybe
        three different people (not including Kirpal). I myself
        would really like to view the original manuscript. One
        that Doug Marman seems to believe was written at
        some time in the 1950's.

        Over the years I've also seen quotes reportedly from
        manuscripts (originals of) Letters to Gail that do not
        include Rebazar Tarzs, but Kirpal Singh. These are
        still on the Net, but the individuals who shared these
        illustrations were either anonymous or claimed they
        did not remember where the quotes came from. IOW,
        I was not able to confirm the sources and whether or
        not these alternate versions were credible. Michael
        Turner - over at a.r.e. - posted some of these at one
        time.

        If earlier versions do exist, showing Kirpal Singh in
        the originals of LTG and Eckankar materials, to me it
        would evidence even more pseudo history / religion.

        I think this subject needs to be investigated until a
        point where the original manuscripts turn up. David L.
        illustrated a number of earlier pieces that appear now
        to have changed from the earlier versions. However I
        don't recall David quoting the original Tiger's Fang as
        if he had a copy of it.

        IMO, every member of Eckankar should be allowed
        access to a copy of that original T.F. manuscript that
        in 1963 Paul Twitchell sent to his old master Kirpal S.
        I'd certainly love to find a copy in an old book store, if
        they have not yet been all quarantined, or destroyed.



        -----Original Message-----
        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 6:06 pm
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Tiger's Fang

         
        Hello Diana,
        I should say here that regardless
        of Doug Marman's opinions Kirpal
        finally returned "The Tiger's
        Fang" Manuscript (not book) to
        Paul in or around June, 1966.

        There was no mention of "Rebazar"
        in the original manuscript. Kirpal
        was Paul's real Master and this
        was the name he mentioned. Paul
        substituted "Rebazar" for "Kirpal"
        after they had a falling out about
        Paul's exaggerations where he
        tried to place both himself and
        Kirpal on pedestals above all
        others in the imaginary worlds
        he had created. Kirpal wouldn't
        have any of Paul's bullshit because
        he hadn't paid his dues, so to speak,
        and was a Westerner who, obviously,
        needed to feed his huge ego.

        Twit had an agenda and Kirpal saw
        through it and wasn't going to be
        used to validate Paul's scam. That's
        why PT created Rebazar. This way
        no one could really challenge him
        since this "Master" only appears to
        him. Of course, now, this imaginary
        character appears in the dreams of
        many Eckists. However, Klemp has
        to validate and approve (in writing
        or verbally in seminar talks) of what
        has been seen and said. Rebazar isn't
        permitted to hand anyone else the
        Rod of ECK Power... even to hold
        for a few seconds!

        BTW- I thought Darwin stated that
        he was from "Clarion" and not Venus.

        Yes, it is funny the amount of crap
        that we try to believe in or accept
        because it's convenient and easy
        to do so because the Truth would
        hurt us. Klemp tells Eckists to take
        a "Leap of Faith" and to use their
        "imaginations." How does that one
        EK song go, "Life life is only a dream... "

        Prometheus

        dianastanley wrote:

        Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript
        to Kirpal Singh and Kirpal said it was
        not accurate as far as most of the content.
        That was the end of his relationship
        with Kirpal!

        I have to say that as far as Pauls writings
        they were all from his very vivid imagination.

        The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons
        of Time" are pure Si Fi.

        Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran.
        He wanted me to a comic book on him.
        He rambled so much I could"nt take notes.
        He did tell me he was originaly from Venus.

        Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
        ever was made.

        At that time I still believed in Eckankar
        and so it was very confusing to me. I had
        to do some mental gymnastics so I could
        still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud
        yet. It's amazing what one will do to keep
        something you believe in with all your heart
        true. I said to my self "He's the Mahanta
        so I should'nt judge him" The Kal is making
        me doubt him.

        This was an experience that served me
        well in the future to question and investigate
        befor I decide if something is true or not.

        Diana

        > <etznab@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > For anybody not familiar, a copy of this book was
        published by Lancer Books in 1969, with a Forward by Brad Steiger.
        > >
        > > As far as Eckankar books go, I believe The Tiger's Fang
        came out first in 1967. Before that (at least 1966) was the book
        Introduction to Eckankar.
        > >
        > > Doug Marman writes: "Paul wrote The Tiger's Fang in 1957,
        but did nothing with the book until he offered it to Kirpal Singh in
        1963." (Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 6)
        > >
        > > On my 1969 copy of The Tiger's Fang there is no picture of
        Rebazar Tarzs. However, the second paragraph of the first page reads:
        "In The Tiger's Fang you will meet Paul Twitchell's teacher, the
        all-knowing Rebazar Tarzs ... [....]" That was the very first page.
        Even before the Copyright page and the Forward by Steiger.
        > >
        > > The second paragraph of Steiger's Forward (I'm marking any
        italics words with an asterik)reads:
        > >
        > > "The manuscript, according to its author, Paul Twitchell,
        was written with the intent of recording an experience that occurred to
        him while he was in the company of Rebazar Tarz, the greet Tibetan
        master, who is one of the leading advocates of *Eckankar, the ancient
        science of soul travel."
        > >
        > > An introduction by Paul Twitchell (not in 1969, but 1979
        version)
        > > is similar:
        > >
        > > "This manuscript was written with the idea of recording an
        experience that occurred to me, while in the presence of Rebazar Tarzs,
        the great Tibetan saint, who is the leading advocate of Eckankar, the
        ancient science of Soul Travel." (p. vii)
        > >
        > > ************************
        > >
        > > Here is a little trivia for context. 1967 was the first
        World Wide seminar of Eckankar (I believe). Paul was already
        advertising Eckankar and Rebazar Tarzs in Understanding Magazine as
        early as January 1967 (see link).
        > >
        > > http://danielfry.com/index.php?id=1067
        > >
        > > Besides the year for the first EWWS in 1967, Brad Steiger was
        already in touch with Paul Twitchell by then:
        > >
        > > "My association with Paul Twitchell began when I included a
        chapter on him in my book, THE ENIGMA OF REINCARNATION (Ace Books,
        1967). The mail response to that single chapter was enormous, to say
        the least. [....]" [Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE (ISBN
        0-914766-11-2), by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?), p. 8]
        > >
        > > In November 1967 Rebazar Tarzs was mentioned in Search
        Magazine.
        > >
        > > http://tinyurl.com/384e7te
        > >
        > > In 1968, Brad Steiger was featured as guest speaker at the
        2nd Eck World Wide Seminar (I believe). There is a picture of Paul
        Twitchell at lower right corner here:
        > >
        > > http://sites.google.com/site/pthswiki/
        > >
        > > Moreover, 1968 was the year of the first Wisdom Note
        (January 1968) which, I believe, Paul said were to have no charge on
        them. The 4th paragraph of the first W.N. mentioned Rebazar Tarzs and
        other "masters". (For those with the W.N. book take a look at that
        paragraph for context.) From what I remember, those "masters" would be
        in communication with some people and giving them instructions,
        according to Paul.
        > >
        > > Darwin Gross and Patti Simpson came to Eckankar in 1968, I
        believe.
        > >
        > > BY this point, 1968, key Eckankar terms were being
        introduced - such as "ECK Master" and "living ECK Master", I believe.
        Eventually, "Mahanta" would show up (by 1969, I believe). Books from
        1968 include:
        > > All About ECK, The Key to ECKANKAR, THE KANDJUR, and IN MY
        SOUL I AM FREE (Brad Steiger). (Not sure if THE KANDJUR was available
        to the public.)
        > >
        > > ************************
        > >
        > > So, The Tiger's Fang was one of the first published
        Eckankar books with mention of Rebazar Tarzs (1967). And (about that
        book) Brad Steiger wrote in a forward: "Whether The Tiger's Fang is a
        record of an actual spiritual journey or the vivid impression of a
        vision that had been granted to few mortal men, must remain a matter
        for the individual reader to judge. [....]" Of course, that was Brad
        Steiger. And that was the 1960's.
        > >
        > > Harold Klemp - leader of Eckankar for about the last 30
        years now - in the early 1980s wrote:
        > >
        > > "Paul encouraged people to read The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
        ["Eckankar Bible"] and make their own study. He never said to take the
        words as holy, as the last word. You take the words and check out the
        teachings from within: Does this work for me or doesn't it? You have to
        know. And based upon what you know is how you conduct your life out
        here. This is what governs your relationship with your friends and your
        family. It governs every aspect of you in the lower worlds, including
        your ethics and morality."
        > >
        > > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html#ideal
        > >
        > > I like the part about "You have to know." Sounds good,
        doesn't it?
        > > And I'd like to apply this to all of the writings / sayings /
        words by anybody. Period!
        > >
        > > In any case, The Tiger's Fang (the title) comes from a
        story told at the back of the book where a person tries to present an
        imitation tiger's fang for the real thing. (Curious that. IMO.)
        > >
        > > On p. 170 of the book (Rumi speaking?): "The moral of this
        story is that one should first pull the tiger's fang before telling the
        world that he is the killer of tigers."
        > >
        > > It begs the question (IMO) whether there were / are
        "imitations" in any of the Eckankar writings.
        > >
        > > One other curious thing Paul added to The Tiger's Fang.
        Near the very end of the book, where Rumi is speaking, Paul writes (p.
        173):
        > >
        > > "A fight between two, wild shaggy men interrupted the
        words flowing from Rumi. He looked up and watched them tumbling about
        the floor of the Inn. Smiling he said, 'Let them fight, Let them kill
        one another. That is their free will and their burden and not for us to
        interfere unless we take upon ourselves a part of their karma. Not that
        we should never feel the lack of sympathy but never invite yourself to
        take the burden of another.' [....]"
        > >
        > > In all, The Tiger's Fang was more than just an
        introduction to Rebazar Tarzs ("leading advocate of Eckankar"). It
        included several others. Like spiritual travelers ("masters") living on
        other planes, along with lords and rulers of other planes. It even
        included talks with historical figures from Earth's past.
        > >
        > > "Imitations" any of them?
        > >
        > > This is what I "have to" know. And if Eckankar can help to
        clarify what is the truth along these lines I believe it incumbent on
        the organization to do so. Afterall: "THEY OWN IT!"
        > >
        > > Etznab
        > >
        > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript to Kirpal Singh and
        Kirpal said it was not accurate as far as most of the content. That was
        the end of his relationship with Kirpal!
        > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings they were all from his
        very vivid imagination. The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons of
        Time" are pure Si Fi.
        > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran. He wanted me to a comic
        book on him. He rambled so much I could"nt take notes. He did tell me
        he was originaly from Venus. Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
        ever was made. At that time I still believed in Eckankar and so it was
        very confusing to me. I had to do some mental gymnastics so I could
        still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud yet. It's amazing what
        one will do to keep something you believe in with all your heart true.
        I said to my self "He's the Mahanta so I should'nt judge him" The Kal
        is making me doubt him.
        > This was an experience that served me well in the future to
        question and investigate befor I decide if something is true or not.
        > Diana
        >
      • dianastanley43
        ... The Letters to Gail. wer nt really letters paul wrote and posted to Gail. He made them up so it seemed he was educating her so she knew what she got into
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
          >
          >
          > If Rebazar was not in the original T.F. manuscript
          > I would say Paul did more than just edit out Kirpal's
          > name. I would say Paul created pseudo history and
          > religion that is now a part of Eckankar dogma.
          >
          > In my research I thought that Paul reportedly gave
          > a copy of his T.F. manuscript to at least two, maybe
          > three different people (not including Kirpal). I myself
          > would really like to view the original manuscript. One
          > that Doug Marman seems to believe was written at
          > some time in the 1950's.
          >
          > Over the years I've also seen quotes reportedly from
          > manuscripts (originals of) Letters to Gail that do not
          > include Rebazar Tarzs, but Kirpal Singh. These are
          > still on the Net, but the individuals who shared these
          > illustrations were either anonymous or claimed they
          > did not remember where the quotes came from. IOW,
          > I was not able to confirm the sources and whether or
          > not these alternate versions were credible. Michael
          > Turner - over at a.r.e. - posted some of these at one
          > time.
          >
          > If earlier versions do exist, showing Kirpal Singh in
          > the originals of LTG and Eckankar materials, to me it
          > would evidence even more pseudo history / religion.
          >
          > I think this subject needs to be investigated until a
          > point where the original manuscripts turn up. David L.
          > illustrated a number of earlier pieces that appear now
          > to have changed from the earlier versions. However I
          > don't recall David quoting the original Tiger's Fang as
          > if he had a copy of it.
          >
          > IMO, every member of Eckankar should be allowed
          > access to a copy of that original T.F. manuscript that
          > in 1963 Paul Twitchell sent to his old master Kirpal S.
          > I'd certainly love to find a copy in an old book store, if
          > they have not yet been all quarantined, or destroyed.
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 6:06 pm
          > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Tiger's Fang
          >
          >  
          > Hello Diana,
          > I should say here that regardless
          > of Doug Marman's opinions Kirpal
          > finally returned "The Tiger's
          > Fang" Manuscript (not book) to
          > Paul in or around June, 1966.
          >
          > There was no mention of "Rebazar"
          > in the original manuscript. Kirpal
          > was Paul's real Master and this
          > was the name he mentioned. Paul
          > substituted "Rebazar" for "Kirpal"
          > after they had a falling out about
          > Paul's exaggerations where he
          > tried to place both himself and
          > Kirpal on pedestals above all
          > others in the imaginary worlds
          > he had created. Kirpal wouldn't
          > have any of Paul's bullshit because
          > he hadn't paid his dues, so to speak,
          > and was a Westerner who, obviously,
          > needed to feed his huge ego.
          >
          > Twit had an agenda and Kirpal saw
          > through it and wasn't going to be
          > used to validate Paul's scam. That's
          > why PT created Rebazar. This way
          > no one could really challenge him
          > since this "Master" only appears to
          > him. Of course, now, this imaginary
          > character appears in the dreams of
          > many Eckists. However, Klemp has
          > to validate and approve (in writing
          > or verbally in seminar talks) of what
          > has been seen and said. Rebazar isn't
          > permitted to hand anyone else the
          > Rod of ECK Power... even to hold
          > for a few seconds!
          >
          > BTW- I thought Darwin stated that
          > he was from "Clarion" and not Venus.
          >
          > Yes, it is funny the amount of crap
          > that we try to believe in or accept
          > because it's convenient and easy
          > to do so because the Truth would
          > hurt us. Klemp tells Eckists to take
          > a "Leap of Faith" and to use their
          > "imaginations." How does that one
          > EK song go, "Life life is only a dream... "
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > dianastanley wrote:
          >
          > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript
          > to Kirpal Singh and Kirpal said it was
          > not accurate as far as most of the content.
          > That was the end of his relationship
          > with Kirpal!
          >
          > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings
          > they were all from his very vivid imagination.
          >
          > The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons
          > of Time" are pure Si Fi.
          >
          > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran.
          > He wanted me to a comic book on him.
          > He rambled so much I could"nt take notes.
          > He did tell me he was originaly from Venus.
          >
          > Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
          > ever was made.
          >
          > At that time I still believed in Eckankar
          > and so it was very confusing to me. I had
          > to do some mental gymnastics so I could
          > still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud
          > yet. It's amazing what one will do to keep
          > something you believe in with all your heart
          > true. I said to my self "He's the Mahanta
          > so I should'nt judge him" The Kal is making
          > me doubt him.
          >
          > This was an experience that served me
          > well in the future to question and investigate
          > befor I decide if something is true or not.
          >
          > Diana
          >
          > > <etznab@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > For anybody not familiar, a copy of this book was
          > published by Lancer Books in 1969, with a Forward by Brad Steiger.
          > > >
          > > > As far as Eckankar books go, I believe The Tiger's Fang
          > came out first in 1967. Before that (at least 1966) was the book
          > Introduction to Eckankar.
          > > >
          > > > Doug Marman writes: "Paul wrote The Tiger's Fang in 1957,
          > but did nothing with the book until he offered it to Kirpal Singh in
          > 1963." (Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 6)
          > > >
          > > > On my 1969 copy of The Tiger's Fang there is no picture of
          > Rebazar Tarzs. However, the second paragraph of the first page reads:
          > "In The Tiger's Fang you will meet Paul Twitchell's teacher, the
          > all-knowing Rebazar Tarzs ... [....]" That was the very first page.
          > Even before the Copyright page and the Forward by Steiger.
          > > >
          > > > The second paragraph of Steiger's Forward (I'm marking any
          > italics words with an asterik)reads:
          > > >
          > > > "The manuscript, according to its author, Paul Twitchell,
          > was written with the intent of recording an experience that occurred to
          > him while he was in the company of Rebazar Tarz, the greet Tibetan
          > master, who is one of the leading advocates of *Eckankar, the ancient
          > science of soul travel."
          > > >
          > > > An introduction by Paul Twitchell (not in 1969, but 1979
          > version)
          > > > is similar:
          > > >
          > > > "This manuscript was written with the idea of recording an
          > experience that occurred to me, while in the presence of Rebazar Tarzs,
          > the great Tibetan saint, who is the leading advocate of Eckankar, the
          > ancient science of Soul Travel." (p. vii)
          > > >
          > > > ************************
          > > >
          > > > Here is a little trivia for context. 1967 was the first
          > World Wide seminar of Eckankar (I believe). Paul was already
          > advertising Eckankar and Rebazar Tarzs in Understanding Magazine as
          > early as January 1967 (see link).
          > > >
          > > > http://danielfry.com/index.php?id=1067
          > > >
          > > > Besides the year for the first EWWS in 1967, Brad Steiger was
          > already in touch with Paul Twitchell by then:
          > > >
          > > > "My association with Paul Twitchell began when I included a
          > chapter on him in my book, THE ENIGMA OF REINCARNATION (Ace Books,
          > 1967). The mail response to that single chapter was enormous, to say
          > the least. [....]" [Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE (ISBN
          > 0-914766-11-2), by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?), p. 8]
          > > >
          > > > In November 1967 Rebazar Tarzs was mentioned in Search
          > Magazine.
          > > >
          > > > http://tinyurl.com/384e7te
          > > >
          > > > In 1968, Brad Steiger was featured as guest speaker at the
          > 2nd Eck World Wide Seminar (I believe). There is a picture of Paul
          > Twitchell at lower right corner here:
          > > >
          > > > http://sites.google.com/site/pthswiki/
          > > >
          > > > Moreover, 1968 was the year of the first Wisdom Note
          > (January 1968) which, I believe, Paul said were to have no charge on
          > them. The 4th paragraph of the first W.N. mentioned Rebazar Tarzs and
          > other "masters". (For those with the W.N. book take a look at that
          > paragraph for context.) From what I remember, those "masters" would be
          > in communication with some people and giving them instructions,
          > according to Paul.
          > > >
          > > > Darwin Gross and Patti Simpson came to Eckankar in 1968, I
          > believe.
          > > >
          > > > BY this point, 1968, key Eckankar terms were being
          > introduced - such as "ECK Master" and "living ECK Master", I believe.
          > Eventually, "Mahanta" would show up (by 1969, I believe). Books from
          > 1968 include:
          > > > All About ECK, The Key to ECKANKAR, THE KANDJUR, and IN MY
          > SOUL I AM FREE (Brad Steiger). (Not sure if THE KANDJUR was available
          > to the public.)
          > > >
          > > > ************************
          > > >
          > > > So, The Tiger's Fang was one of the first published
          > Eckankar books with mention of Rebazar Tarzs (1967). And (about that
          > book) Brad Steiger wrote in a forward: "Whether The Tiger's Fang is a
          > record of an actual spiritual journey or the vivid impression of a
          > vision that had been granted to few mortal men, must remain a matter
          > for the individual reader to judge. [....]" Of course, that was Brad
          > Steiger. And that was the 1960's.
          > > >
          > > > Harold Klemp - leader of Eckankar for about the last 30
          > years now - in the early 1980s wrote:
          > > >
          > > > "Paul encouraged people to read The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
          > ["Eckankar Bible"] and make their own study. He never said to take the
          > words as holy, as the last word. You take the words and check out the
          > teachings from within: Does this work for me or doesn't it? You have to
          > know. And based upon what you know is how you conduct your life out
          > here. This is what governs your relationship with your friends and your
          > family. It governs every aspect of you in the lower worlds, including
          > your ethics and morality."
          > > >
          > > > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html#ideal
          > > >
          > > > I like the part about "You have to know." Sounds good,
          > doesn't it?
          > > > And I'd like to apply this to all of the writings / sayings /
          > words by anybody. Period!
          > > >
          > > > In any case, The Tiger's Fang (the title) comes from a
          > story told at the back of the book where a person tries to present an
          > imitation tiger's fang for the real thing. (Curious that. IMO.)
          > > >
          > > > On p. 170 of the book (Rumi speaking?): "The moral of this
          > story is that one should first pull the tiger's fang before telling the
          > world that he is the killer of tigers."
          > > >
          > > > It begs the question (IMO) whether there were / are
          > "imitations" in any of the Eckankar writings.
          > > >
          > > > One other curious thing Paul added to The Tiger's Fang.
          > Near the very end of the book, where Rumi is speaking, Paul writes (p.
          > 173):
          > > >
          > > > "A fight between two, wild shaggy men interrupted the
          > words flowing from Rumi. He looked up and watched them tumbling about
          > the floor of the Inn. Smiling he said, 'Let them fight, Let them kill
          > one another. That is their free will and their burden and not for us to
          > interfere unless we take upon ourselves a part of their karma. Not that
          > we should never feel the lack of sympathy but never invite yourself to
          > take the burden of another.' [....]"
          > > >
          > > > In all, The Tiger's Fang was more than just an
          > introduction to Rebazar Tarzs ("leading advocate of Eckankar"). It
          > included several others. Like spiritual travelers ("masters") living on
          > other planes, along with lords and rulers of other planes. It even
          > included talks with historical figures from Earth's past.
          > > >
          > > > "Imitations" any of them?
          > > >
          > > > This is what I "have to" know. And if Eckankar can help to
          > clarify what is the truth along these lines I believe it incumbent on
          > the organization to do so. Afterall: "THEY OWN IT!"
          > > >
          > > > Etznab
          > > >
          > > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript to Kirpal Singh and
          > Kirpal said it was not accurate as far as most of the content. That was
          > the end of his relationship with Kirpal!
          > > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings they were all from his
          > very vivid imagination. The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons of
          > Time" are pure Si Fi.
          > > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran. He wanted me to a comic
          > book on him. He rambled so much I could"nt take notes. He did tell me
          > he was originaly from Venus. Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
          > ever was made. At that time I still believed in Eckankar and so it was
          > very confusing to me. I had to do some mental gymnastics so I could
          > still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud yet. It's amazing what
          > one will do to keep something you believe in with all your heart true.
          > I said to my self "He's the Mahanta so I should'nt judge him" The Kal
          > is making me doubt him.
          > > This was an experience that served me well in the future to
          > question and investigate befor I decide if something is true or not.
          > > Diana
          > >
          >
          The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really letters paul wrote and posted to Gail. He made them up so it seemed he was educating her so she knew what she got into when she married him. What a caring man to write that many letters to his future wife!!!
          Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
          Diana
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Etznab, There s no if about it. Rebazar is a fictional comic book/religious character! Paul wrote The Tiger s Fang to impress his Master... Kirpal
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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            Hello Etznab,
            There's no "if" about it. Rebazar is a fictional
            comic book/religious character! Paul wrote
            The Tiger's Fang to impress his Master... Kirpal
            Singh. PT was with Kirpal for 10 years (1955-
            1965) while, at the same time, exploring other
            philosophies and paths.

            And, of course, Paul reedited The Tiger's Fang,
            after their disagreement, just like he reedited
            The Flute of God and even the Shariyat. Don't
            put too much weight upon what Doug Marman
            has to say. Why? He's a Klemp apologist and
            a H.I. and can't be trusted. He's simply feathering
            his own nest in hopes of receiving that next
            Initiation, selling books, and establishing an
            EK following of sorts. Or maybe he's hoping
            his pal, little Harry, will pass him the Rod...
            someday!

            Klemp even states on Eckankar.org that
            Kirpal returned The Tiger's Fang manuscript
            after they had a falling out.

            Plus, on Eckankar.org Klemp mentions
            Kirpal's name about 17 times while HK
            mentions the fictitious "Sudar Singh"
            (another name substitution for Kirpal
            Singh) about 5 times.

            I doubt that you could find anything
            written by Paul, prior to 1966, that
            mentions Rebazar, although, he (later)
            claimed to have been initiated by him,
            first, in 1935 and, again, on a second
            trip to India (to the 12th) around 1951.

            Prometheus

            etznab@... wrote:
            >
            >
            > If Rebazar was not in the original T.F. manuscript
            > I would say Paul did more than just edit out Kirpal's
            > name. I would say Paul created pseudo history and
            > religion that is now a part of Eckankar dogma.
            >
            > In my research I thought that Paul reportedly gave
            > a copy of his T.F. manuscript to at least two, maybe
            > three different people (not including Kirpal). I myself
            > would really like to view the original manuscript. One
            > that Doug Marman seems to believe was written at
            > some time in the 1950's.
            >
            > Over the years I've also seen quotes reportedly from
            > manuscripts (originals of) Letters to Gail that do not
            > include Rebazar Tarzs, but Kirpal Singh. These are
            > still on the Net, but the individuals who shared these
            > illustrations were either anonymous or claimed they
            > did not remember where the quotes came from. IOW,
            > I was not able to confirm the sources and whether or
            > not these alternate versions were credible. Michael
            > Turner - over at a.r.e. - posted some of these at one
            > time.
            >
            > If earlier versions do exist, showing Kirpal Singh in
            > the originals of LTG and Eckankar materials, to me it
            > would evidence even more pseudo history / religion.
            >
            > I think this subject needs to be investigated until a
            > point where the original manuscripts turn up. David L.
            > illustrated a number of earlier pieces that appear now
            > to have changed from the earlier versions. However I
            > don't recall David quoting the original Tiger's Fang as
            > if he had a copy of it.
            >
            > IMO, every member of Eckankar should be allowed
            > access to a copy of that original T.F. manuscript that
            > in 1963 Paul Twitchell sent to his old master Kirpal S.
            > I'd certainly love to find a copy in an old book store, if
            > they have not yet been all quarantined, or destroyed.
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 6:06 pm
            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Tiger's Fang
            >
            >  
            > Hello Diana,
            > I should say here that regardless
            > of Doug Marman's opinions Kirpal
            > finally returned "The Tiger's
            > Fang" Manuscript (not book) to
            > Paul in or around June, 1966.
            >
            > There was no mention of "Rebazar"
            > in the original manuscript. Kirpal
            > was Paul's real Master and this
            > was the name he mentioned. Paul
            > substituted "Rebazar" for "Kirpal"
            > after they had a falling out about
            > Paul's exaggerations where he
            > tried to place both himself and
            > Kirpal on pedestals above all
            > others in the imaginary worlds
            > he had created. Kirpal wouldn't
            > have any of Paul's bullshit because
            > he hadn't paid his dues, so to speak,
            > and was a Westerner who, obviously,
            > needed to feed his huge ego.
            >
            > Twit had an agenda and Kirpal saw
            > through it and wasn't going to be
            > used to validate Paul's scam. That's
            > why PT created Rebazar. This way
            > no one could really challenge him
            > since this "Master" only appears to
            > him. Of course, now, this imaginary
            > character appears in the dreams of
            > many Eckists. However, Klemp has
            > to validate and approve (in writing
            > or verbally in seminar talks) of what
            > has been seen and said. Rebazar isn't
            > permitted to hand anyone else the
            > Rod of ECK Power... even to hold
            > for a few seconds!
            >
            > BTW- I thought Darwin stated that
            > he was from "Clarion" and not Venus.
            >
            > Yes, it is funny the amount of crap
            > that we try to believe in or accept
            > because it's convenient and easy
            > to do so because the Truth would
            > hurt us. Klemp tells Eckists to take
            > a "Leap of Faith" and to use their
            > "imaginations." How does that one
            > EK song go, "Life life is only a dream... "
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > dianastanley wrote:
            >
            > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript
            > to Kirpal Singh and Kirpal said it was
            > not accurate as far as most of the content.
            > That was the end of his relationship
            > with Kirpal!
            >
            > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings
            > they were all from his very vivid imagination.
            >
            > The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons
            > of Time" are pure Si Fi.
            >
            > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran.
            > He wanted me to a comic book on him.
            > He rambled so much I could"nt take notes.
            > He did tell me he was originaly from Venus.
            >
            > Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
            > ever was made.
            >
            > At that time I still believed in Eckankar
            > and so it was very confusing to me. I had
            > to do some mental gymnastics so I could
            > still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud
            > yet. It's amazing what one will do to keep
            > something you believe in with all your heart
            > true. I said to my self "He's the Mahanta
            > so I should'nt judge him" The Kal is making
            > me doubt him.
            >
            > This was an experience that served me
            > well in the future to question and investigate
            > befor I decide if something is true or not.
            >
            > Diana
            >
            > > <etznab@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > For anybody not familiar, a copy of this book was
            > published by Lancer Books in 1969, with a Forward by Brad Steiger.
            > > >
            > > > As far as Eckankar books go, I believe The Tiger's Fang
            > came out first in 1967. Before that (at least 1966) was the book
            > Introduction to Eckankar.
            > > >
            > > > Doug Marman writes: "Paul wrote The Tiger's Fang in 1957,
            > but did nothing with the book until he offered it to Kirpal Singh in
            > 1963." (Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 6)
            > > >
            > > > On my 1969 copy of The Tiger's Fang there is no picture of
            > Rebazar Tarzs. However, the second paragraph of the first page reads:
            > "In The Tiger's Fang you will meet Paul Twitchell's teacher, the
            > all-knowing Rebazar Tarzs ... [....]" That was the very first page.
            > Even before the Copyright page and the Forward by Steiger.
            > > >
            > > > The second paragraph of Steiger's Forward (I'm marking any
            > italics words with an asterik)reads:
            > > >
            > > > "The manuscript, according to its author, Paul Twitchell,
            > was written with the intent of recording an experience that occurred to
            > him while he was in the company of Rebazar Tarz, the greet Tibetan
            > master, who is one of the leading advocates of *Eckankar, the ancient
            > science of soul travel."
            > > >
            > > > An introduction by Paul Twitchell (not in 1969, but 1979
            > version)
            > > > is similar:
            > > >
            > > > "This manuscript was written with the idea of recording an
            > experience that occurred to me, while in the presence of Rebazar Tarzs,
            > the great Tibetan saint, who is the leading advocate of Eckankar, the
            > ancient science of Soul Travel." (p. vii)
            > > >
            > > > ************************
            > > >
            > > > Here is a little trivia for context. 1967 was the first
            > World Wide seminar of Eckankar (I believe). Paul was already
            > advertising Eckankar and Rebazar Tarzs in Understanding Magazine as
            > early as January 1967 (see link).
            > > >
            > > > http://danielfry.com/index.php?id=1067
            > > >
            > > > Besides the year for the first EWWS in 1967, Brad Steiger was
            > already in touch with Paul Twitchell by then:
            > > >
            > > > "My association with Paul Twitchell began when I included a
            > chapter on him in my book, THE ENIGMA OF REINCARNATION (Ace Books,
            > 1967). The mail response to that single chapter was enormous, to say
            > the least. [....]" [Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE (ISBN
            > 0-914766-11-2), by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?), p. 8]
            > > >
            > > > In November 1967 Rebazar Tarzs was mentioned in Search
            > Magazine.
            > > >
            > > > http://tinyurl.com/384e7te
            > > >
            > > > In 1968, Brad Steiger was featured as guest speaker at the
            > 2nd Eck World Wide Seminar (I believe). There is a picture of Paul
            > Twitchell at lower right corner here:
            > > >
            > > > http://sites.google.com/site/pthswiki/
            > > >
            > > > Moreover, 1968 was the year of the first Wisdom Note
            > (January 1968) which, I believe, Paul said were to have no charge on
            > them. The 4th paragraph of the first W.N. mentioned Rebazar Tarzs and
            > other "masters". (For those with the W.N. book take a look at that
            > paragraph for context.) From what I remember, those "masters" would be
            > in communication with some people and giving them instructions,
            > according to Paul.
            > > >
            > > > Darwin Gross and Patti Simpson came to Eckankar in 1968, I
            > believe.
            > > >
            > > > BY this point, 1968, key Eckankar terms were being
            > introduced - such as "ECK Master" and "living ECK Master", I believe.
            > Eventually, "Mahanta" would show up (by 1969, I believe). Books from
            > 1968 include:
            > > > All About ECK, The Key to ECKANKAR, THE KANDJUR, and IN MY
            > SOUL I AM FREE (Brad Steiger). (Not sure if THE KANDJUR was available
            > to the public.)
            > > >
            > > > ************************
            > > >
            > > > So, The Tiger's Fang was one of the first published
            > Eckankar books with mention of Rebazar Tarzs (1967). And (about that
            > book) Brad Steiger wrote in a forward: "Whether The Tiger's Fang is a
            > record of an actual spiritual journey or the vivid impression of a
            > vision that had been granted to few mortal men, must remain a matter
            > for the individual reader to judge. [....]" Of course, that was Brad
            > Steiger. And that was the 1960's.
            > > >
            > > > Harold Klemp - leader of Eckankar for about the last 30
            > years now - in the early 1980s wrote:
            > > >
            > > > "Paul encouraged people to read The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
            > ["Eckankar Bible"] and make their own study. He never said to take the
            > words as holy, as the last word. You take the words and check out the
            > teachings from within: Does this work for me or doesn't it? You have to
            > know. And based upon what you know is how you conduct your life out
            > here. This is what governs your relationship with your friends and your
            > family. It governs every aspect of you in the lower worlds, including
            > your ethics and morality."
            > > >
            > > > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html#ideal
            > > >
            > > > I like the part about "You have to know." Sounds good,
            > doesn't it?
            > > > And I'd like to apply this to all of the writings / sayings /
            > words by anybody. Period!
            > > >
            > > > In any case, The Tiger's Fang (the title) comes from a
            > story told at the back of the book where a person tries to present an
            > imitation tiger's fang for the real thing. (Curious that. IMO.)
            > > >
            > > > On p. 170 of the book (Rumi speaking?): "The moral of this
            > story is that one should first pull the tiger's fang before telling the
            > world that he is the killer of tigers."
            > > >
            > > > It begs the question (IMO) whether there were / are
            > "imitations" in any of the Eckankar writings.
            > > >
            > > > One other curious thing Paul added to The Tiger's Fang.
            > Near the very end of the book, where Rumi is speaking, Paul writes (p.
            > 173):
            > > >
            > > > "A fight between two, wild shaggy men interrupted the
            > words flowing from Rumi. He looked up and watched them tumbling about
            > the floor of the Inn. Smiling he said, 'Let them fight, Let them kill
            > one another. That is their free will and their burden and not for us to
            > interfere unless we take upon ourselves a part of their karma. Not that
            > we should never feel the lack of sympathy but never invite yourself to
            > take the burden of another.' [....]"
            > > >
            > > > In all, The Tiger's Fang was more than just an
            > introduction to Rebazar Tarzs ("leading advocate of Eckankar"). It
            > included several others. Like spiritual travelers ("masters") living on
            > other planes, along with lords and rulers of other planes. It even
            > included talks with historical figures from Earth's past.
            > > >
            > > > "Imitations" any of them?
            > > >
            > > > This is what I "have to" know. And if Eckankar can help to
            > clarify what is the truth along these lines I believe it incumbent on
            > the organization to do so. Afterall: "THEY OWN IT!"
            > > >
            > > > Etznab
            > > >
            > > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript to Kirpal Singh and
            > Kirpal said it was not accurate as far as most of the content. That was
            > the end of his relationship with Kirpal!
            > > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings they were all from his
            > very vivid imagination. The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons of
            > Time" are pure Si Fi.
            > > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran. He wanted me to a comic
            > book on him. He rambled so much I could"nt take notes. He did tell me
            > he was originaly from Venus. Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
            > ever was made. At that time I still believed in Eckankar and so it was
            > very confusing to me. I had to do some mental gymnastics so I could
            > still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud yet. It's amazing what
            > one will do to keep something you believe in with all your heart true.
            > I said to my self "He's the Mahanta so I should'nt judge him" The Kal
            > is making me doubt him.
            > > This was an experience that served me well in the future to
            > question and investigate befor I decide if something is true or not.
            > > Diana
            > >
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Diana, Thanks for enlightening us about Letters to Gail. I always thought it was a little too preachy to be real. Paul probably wrote them in the
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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              Hello Diana,
              Thanks for enlightening us about
              "Letters to Gail." I always thought
              it was a little too preachy to be real.

              Paul probably "wrote" them in the
              beginnings of Eckankar when he
              needed to start selling himself to
              the public. By this time he and Gail
              had been married for at least two
              or three years. What's the copyright
              date on "Letters to Gail?"

              That's interesting that Gail had/has
              a twin sister. I wonder how much her
              twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
              Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.

              Prometheus

              dianastanley wrote:

              The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
              letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.

              He made them up so it seemed he
              was educating her so she knew what
              she got into when she married him.

              What a caring man to write that many
              letters to his future wife!!!

              Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.

              Diana
            • dianastanley43
              ... I don t know the date he wrote them I know I could t wait for the second copy to come out. I thought they were info for us who just got in Eck. I m working
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Diana,
                > Thanks for enlightening us about
                > "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                > it was a little too preachy to be real.
                >
                > Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                > beginnings of Eckankar when he
                > needed to start selling himself to
                > the public. By this time he and Gail
                > had been married for at least two
                > or three years. What's the copyright
                > date on "Letters to Gail?"
                >
                > That's interesting that Gail had/has
                > a twin sister. I wonder how much her

                I don"t know the date he wrote them I know I could't wait for the second copy to come out. I thought they were info for us who just got in Eck.
                I'm working on a catalog of my most recent paintings that are now in print. So when I get tired of work I click on here and have coffee with you guys!
                > twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                > Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > dianastanley wrote:
                >
                > The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                > letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.
                >
                > He made them up so it seemed he
                > was educating her so she knew what
                > she got into when she married him.
                >
                > What a caring man to write that many
                > letters to his future wife!!!
                >
                > Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
                >
                > Diana
                >
              • etznab@aol.com
                The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The following words appear on the first page (in italics): ECKANKAR ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs MAHANTA This was
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                  The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The following words
                  appear on the first page (in italics):

                  ECKANKAR

                  ECK Master

                  Rebazar Tarzs

                  MAHANTA

                  This was supposedly the year 1962! Do you think those words appeared in
                  the original? Or did Gail and Darwin (somebody) do some editing?

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 1:36 pm
                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her Sunasu

                   
                  Hello Diana,
                  Thanks for enlightening us about
                  "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                  it was a little too preachy to be real.

                  Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                  beginnings of Eckankar when he
                  needed to start selling himself to
                  the public. By this time he and Gail
                  had been married for at least two
                  or three years. What's the copyright
                  date on "Letters to Gail?"

                  That's interesting that Gail had/has
                  a twin sister. I wonder how much her
                  twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                  Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.

                  Prometheus

                  dianastanley wrote:

                  The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                  letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.

                  He made them up so it seemed he
                  was educating her so she knew what
                  she got into when she married him.

                  What a caring man to write that many
                  letters to his future wife!!!

                  Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.

                  Diana
                • prometheus_973
                  Hello Etznab, It doesn t matter what the date was on the phony letter. It too is phony. Diana said that Twit did these letters after he and Gail were married
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                    Hello Etznab,
                    It doesn't matter what the date
                    was on the phony letter. It too is
                    phony. Diana said that Twit did
                    these letters "after" he and Gail
                    were married and they were married
                    in 1963. The key is the copyright
                    date in the book and I know it has
                    to be after Jan. 1, 1969 because
                    "Mahanta" wasn't mentioned until
                    then. Twitchell was a conman and
                    liar and did all sorts of reediting,
                    plagiarism, substitution, etc.

                    etznab@... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The following words
                    > appear on the first page (in italics):
                    >
                    > ECKANKAR
                    >
                    > ECK Master
                    >
                    > Rebazar Tarzs
                    >
                    > MAHANTA
                    >
                    > This was supposedly the year 1962! Do you think those words appeared in
                    > the original? Or did Gail and Darwin (somebody) do some editing?
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                    > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 1:36 pm
                    > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her Sunasu
                    >
                    >  
                    > Hello Diana,
                    > Thanks for enlightening us about
                    > "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                    > it was a little too preachy to be real.
                    >
                    > Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                    > beginnings of Eckankar when he
                    > needed to start selling himself to
                    > the public. By this time he and Gail
                    > had been married for at least two
                    > or three years. What's the copyright
                    > date on "Letters to Gail?"
                    >
                    > That's interesting that Gail had/has
                    > a twin sister. I wonder how much her
                    > twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                    > Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    > dianastanley wrote:
                    >
                    > The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                    > letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.
                    >
                    > He made them up so it seemed he
                    > was educating her so she knew what
                    > she got into when she married him.
                    >
                    > What a caring man to write that many
                    > letters to his future wife!!!
                    >
                    > Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
                    >
                    > Diana
                    >
                  • dianastanley43
                    ... Diana
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Etznab,
                      > It doesn't matter what the date
                      > was on the phony letter. It too is
                      > phony. Diana said that Twit did
                      > these letters "after" he and Gail
                      > were married and they were married
                      > in 1963. The key is the copyright
                      > date in the book and I know it has
                      > to be after Jan. 1, 1969 because
                      > "Mahanta" wasn't mentioned until
                      > then. Twitchell was a conman and
                      > liar and did all sorts of reediting,
                      > plagiarism, substitution, etc.
                      >
                      > etznab@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The following words
                      > > appear on the first page (in italics):
                      > >
                      > > ECKANKAR
                      > >
                      > > ECK Master
                      > >
                      > > Rebazar Tarzs
                      > >
                      > > MAHANTA
                      > >
                      > > This was supposedly the year 1962! Do you think those words appeared in
                      > > the original? Or did Gail and Darwin (somebody) do some editing?
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@>
                      > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 1:36 pm
                      > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her Sunasu
                      > >
                      > >  
                      > > Hello Diana,
                      > > Thanks for enlightening us about
                      > > "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                      > > it was a little too preachy to be real.
                      > >
                      > > Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                      > > beginnings of Eckankar when he
                      > > needed to start selling himself to
                      > > the public. By this time he and Gail
                      > > had been married for at least two
                      > > or three years. What's the copyright
                      > > date on "Letters to Gail?"
                      > >
                      > > That's interesting that Gail had/has
                      > > a twin sister. I wonder how much her
                      > > twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                      > > Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                      > >
                      > > dianastanley wrote:
                      > >
                      > > The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                      > > letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.
                      > >
                      > > He made them up so it seemed he
                      > > was educating her so she knew what
                      > > she got into when she married him.
                      > >
                      > > What a caring man to write that many
                      > > letters to his future wife!!!
                      > >
                      > > Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
                      > >
                      > > Diana
                      > >
                      > I don't know when Paul wrote the letters to Gail. I always figured they lived togeather befor they were married,Just my opinion.
                      Diana
                    • etznab@aol.com
                      I didn t know that before. What Diana said. I assumed the letters were written on the dates assigned to them in the book. After all, they are all dated at the
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                        I didn't know that before. What Diana said. I assumed the letters were
                        written on the dates assigned to them in the book. After all, they are
                        all dated at the beginning of each letter.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 8:44 pm
                        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her Sunasu

                         
                        Hello Etznab,
                        It doesn't matter what the date
                        was on the phony letter. It too is
                        phony. Diana said that Twit did
                        these letters "after" he and Gail
                        were married and they were married
                        in 1963. The key is the copyright
                        date in the book and I know it has
                        to be after Jan. 1, 1969 because
                        "Mahanta" wasn't mentioned until
                        then. Twitchell was a conman and
                        liar and did all sorts of reediting,
                        plagiarism, substitution, etc.

                        etznab@... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The following words
                        > appear on the first page (in italics):
                        >
                        > ECKANKAR
                        >
                        > ECK Master
                        >
                        > Rebazar Tarzs
                        >
                        > MAHANTA
                        >
                        > This was supposedly the year 1962! Do you think those words
                        appeared in
                        > the original? Or did Gail and Darwin (somebody) do some editing?
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 1:36 pm
                        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her
                        Sunasu
                        >
                        >  
                        > Hello Diana,
                        > Thanks for enlightening us about
                        > "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                        > it was a little too preachy to be real.
                        >
                        > Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                        > beginnings of Eckankar when he
                        > needed to start selling himself to
                        > the public. By this time he and Gail
                        > had been married for at least two
                        > or three years. What's the copyright
                        > date on "Letters to Gail?"
                        >
                        > That's interesting that Gail had/has
                        > a twin sister. I wonder how much her
                        > twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                        > Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        > dianastanley wrote:
                        >
                        > The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                        > letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.
                        >
                        > He made them up so it seemed he
                        > was educating her so she knew what
                        > she got into when she married him.
                        >
                        > What a caring man to write that many
                        > letters to his future wife!!!
                        >
                        > Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
                        >
                        > Diana
                        >
                      • prometheus_973
                        Hello Diana and Etznab, Okay, I thought Diana said that they were married at the time of the letters. I think that Paul did post dated them for the time he was
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                          Hello Diana and Etznab,
                          Okay, I thought Diana said that
                          they were married at the time of
                          the letters. I think that Paul did
                          post dated them for the time
                          he was in California and Gail was
                          still in Seattle. Then, Paul claims
                          he sent for her or something like
                          that and they were married. I still
                          believe, as Diana does, that they
                          were together when he wrote them.
                          If the truth be known, Gail probably
                          typed them for Twit.

                          But, one thing is clear. These letters
                          were reedited. The proof is with the
                          1969 term "Mahanta." Look at everything
                          else written. It is impossible for Paul
                          to have used this term before 1969.

                          Prometheus

                          dianastanley43@...> wrote:
                          >
                          I don't know when Paul wrote the letters to Gail.
                          I always figured they lived togeather befor they
                          were married, Just my opinion.
                          Diana
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hello Etznab,
                          > > It doesn't matter what the date
                          > > was on the phony letter. It too is
                          > > phony. Diana said that Twit did
                          > > these letters "after" he and Gail
                          > > were married and they were married
                          > > in 1963. The key is the copyright
                          > > date in the book and I know it has
                          > > to be after Jan. 1, 1969 because
                          > > "Mahanta" wasn't mentioned until
                          > > then. Twitchell was a conman and
                          > > liar and did all sorts of reediting,
                          > > plagiarism, substitution, etc.
                          > >
                          > > etznab@ wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The following words
                          > > > appear on the first page (in italics):
                          > > >
                          > > > ECKANKAR
                          > > >
                          > > > ECK Master
                          > > >
                          > > > Rebazar Tarzs
                          > > >
                          > > > MAHANTA
                          > > >
                          > > > This was supposedly the year 1962! Do you think those words appeared in
                          > > > the original? Or did Gail and Darwin (somebody) do some editing?
                          > > >
                          > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@>
                          > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 1:36 pm
                          > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her Sunasu
                          > > >
                          > > >  
                          > > > Hello Diana,
                          > > > Thanks for enlightening us about
                          > > > "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                          > > > it was a little too preachy to be real.
                          > > >
                          > > > Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                          > > > beginnings of Eckankar when he
                          > > > needed to start selling himself to
                          > > > the public. By this time he and Gail
                          > > > had been married for at least two
                          > > > or three years. What's the copyright
                          > > > date on "Letters to Gail?"
                          > > >
                          > > > That's interesting that Gail had/has
                          > > > a twin sister. I wonder how much her
                          > > > twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                          > > > Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.
                          > > >
                          > > > Prometheus
                          > > >
                          > > > dianastanley wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                          > > > letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.
                          > > >
                          > > > He made them up so it seemed he
                          > > > was educating her so she knew what
                          > > > she got into when she married him.
                          > > >
                          > > > What a caring man to write that many
                          > > > letters to his future wife!!!
                          > > >
                          > > > Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
                          > > >
                          > > > Diana
                          > > >
                          > > I don't know when Paul wrote the letters to Gail. I always figured they lived togeather befor they were married,Just my opinion.
                          > Diana
                          >
                        • etznab@aol.com
                          Paul said so himself around 1969 that the term was new information , I believe. For reference, check out Chela Workshop - Los Angeles, CA - February 14th,
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                            Paul said so himself around 1969 that the term was "new information", I
                            believe.

                            For reference, check out Chela Workshop - Los Angeles, CA - February
                            14th, 1969: Audio cassette 48104 - side two - last five to ten minutes
                            of tape.

                            This is just one other reason I believe the term came out around 1969.
                            Not seven years earlier in 1962. Heck, Eckankar wasn't even officially
                            founded until 1965.

                            Etznab

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 9:39 pm
                            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her Sunasu

                             
                            Hello Diana and Etznab,
                            Okay, I thought Diana said that
                            they were married at the time of
                            the letters. I think that Paul did
                            post dated them for the time
                            he was in California and Gail was
                            still in Seattle. Then, Paul claims
                            he sent for her or something like
                            that and they were married. I still
                            believe, as Diana does, that they
                            were together when he wrote them.
                            If the truth be known, Gail probably
                            typed them for Twit.

                            But, one thing is clear. These letters
                            were reedited. The proof is with the
                            1969 term "Mahanta." Look at everything
                            else written. It is impossible for Paul
                            to have used this term before 1969.

                            Prometheus

                            dianastanley43@...> wrote:
                            >
                            I don't know when Paul wrote the letters to Gail.
                            I always figured they lived togeather befor they
                            were married, Just my opinion.
                            Diana
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                            "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hello Etznab,
                            > > It doesn't matter what the date
                            > > was on the phony letter. It too is
                            > > phony. Diana said that Twit did
                            > > these letters "after" he and Gail
                            > > were married and they were married
                            > > in 1963. The key is the copyright
                            > > date in the book and I know it has
                            > > to be after Jan. 1, 1969 because
                            > > "Mahanta" wasn't mentioned until
                            > > then. Twitchell was a conman and
                            > > liar and did all sorts of reediting,
                            > > plagiarism, substitution, etc.
                            > >
                            > > etznab@ wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The
                            following words
                            > > > appear on the first page (in italics):
                            > > >
                            > > > ECKANKAR
                            > > >
                            > > > ECK Master
                            > > >
                            > > > Rebazar Tarzs
                            > > >
                            > > > MAHANTA
                            > > >
                            > > > This was supposedly the year 1962! Do you think those
                            words appeared in
                            > > > the original? Or did Gail and Darwin (somebody) do some
                            editing?
                            > > >
                            > > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@>
                            > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 1:36 pm
                            > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to
                            Gail and Her Sunasu
                            > > >
                            > > >  
                            > > > Hello Diana,
                            > > > Thanks for enlightening us about
                            > > > "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                            > > > it was a little too preachy to be real.
                            > > >
                            > > > Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                            > > > beginnings of Eckankar when he
                            > > > needed to start selling himself to
                            > > > the public. By this time he and Gail
                            > > > had been married for at least two
                            > > > or three years. What's the copyright
                            > > > date on "Letters to Gail?"
                            > > >
                            > > > That's interesting that Gail had/has
                            > > > a twin sister. I wonder how much her
                            > > > twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                            > > > Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.
                            > > >
                            > > > Prometheus
                            > > >
                            > > > dianastanley wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                            > > > letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.
                            > > >
                            > > > He made them up so it seemed he
                            > > > was educating her so she knew what
                            > > > she got into when she married him.
                            > > >
                            > > > What a caring man to write that many
                            > > > letters to his future wife!!!
                            > > >
                            > > > Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
                            > > >
                            > > > Diana
                            > > >
                            > > I don't know when Paul wrote the letters to Gail. I always
                            figured they lived togeather befor they were married,Just my opinion.
                            > Diana
                            >
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