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Re: The Tiger's Fang

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  • dianastanley43
    ... Darwin did tell me he was from Venus but of course he could t keep his story straight, he was under the influence and I m sure it influenced his memory. I
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 2, 2011
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      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Diana,
      > I should say here that regardless
      > of Doug Marman's opinions Kirpal
      > finally returned "The Tiger's
      > Fang" Manuscript (not book) to
      > Paul in or around June, 1966.
      >
      > There was no mention of "Rebazar"
      > in the original manuscript. Kirpal
      > was Paul's real Master and this
      > was the name he mentioned. Paul
      > substituted "Rebazar" for "Kirpal"
      > after they had a falling out about
      > Paul's exaggerations where he
      > tried to place both himself and
      > Kirpal on pedestals above all
      > others in the imaginary worlds
      > he had created. Kirpal wouldn't
      > have any of Paul's bullshit because
      > he hadn't paid his dues, so to speak,
      > and was a Westerner who, obviously,
      > needed to feed his huge ego.
      >
      > Twit had an agenda and Kirpal saw
      > through it and wasn't going to be
      > used to validate Paul's scam. That's
      > why PT created Rebazar. This way
      > no one could really challenge him
      > since this "Master" only appears to
      > him. Of course, now, this imaginary
      > character appears in the dreams of
      > many Eckists. However, Klemp has
      > to validate and approve (in writing
      > or verbally in seminar talks) of what
      > has been seen and said. Rebazar isn't
      > permitted to hand anyone else the
      > Rod of ECK Power... even to hold
      > for a few seconds!
      >
      > BTW- I thought Darwin stated that
      > he was from "Clarion" and not Venus.
      >
      > Yes, it is funny the amount of crap
      > that we try to believe in or accept
      > because it's convenient and easy
      > to do so because the Truth would
      > hurt us. Klemp tells Eckists to take
      > a "Leap of Faith" and to use their
      > "imaginations." How does that one
      > EK song go, "Life life is only a dream... "
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      > dianastanley wrote:
      >
      > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript
      > to Kirpal Singh and Kirpal said it was
      > not accurate as far as most of the content.
      > That was the end of his relationship
      > with Kirpal!
      >
      > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings
      > they were all from his very vivid imagination.
      >
      > The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons
      > of Time" are pure Si Fi.
      >
      > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran.
      > He wanted me to a comic book on him.
      > He rambled so much I could"nt take notes.
      > He did tell me he was originaly from Venus.
      >
      > Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
      > ever was made.
      >
      > At that time I still believed in Eckankar
      > and so it was very confusing to me. I had
      > to do some mental gymnastics so I could
      > still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud
      > yet. It's amazing what one will do to keep
      > something you believe in with all your heart
      > true. I said to my self "He's the Mahanta
      > so I should'nt judge him" The Kal is making
      > me doubt him.
      >
      > This was an experience that served me
      > well in the future to question and investigate
      > befor I decide if something is true or not.
      >
      > Diana
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > > <etznab@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > For anybody not familiar, a copy of this book was published by Lancer Books in 1969, with a Forward by Brad Steiger.
      > > >
      > > > As far as Eckankar books go, I believe The Tiger's Fang came out first in 1967. Before that (at least 1966) was the book Introduction to Eckankar.
      > > >
      > > > Doug Marman writes: "Paul wrote The Tiger's Fang in 1957, but did nothing with the book until he offered it to Kirpal Singh in 1963." (Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 6)
      > > >
      > > > On my 1969 copy of The Tiger's Fang there is no picture of Rebazar Tarzs. However, the second paragraph of the first page reads: "In The Tiger's Fang you will meet Paul Twitchell's teacher, the all-knowing Rebazar Tarzs ... [....]" That was the very first page. Even before the Copyright page and the Forward by Steiger.
      > > >
      > > > The second paragraph of Steiger's Forward (I'm marking any italics words with an asterik)reads:
      > > >
      > > > "The manuscript, according to its author, Paul Twitchell, was written with the intent of recording an experience that occurred to him while he was in the company of Rebazar Tarz, the greet Tibetan master, who is one of the leading advocates of *Eckankar, the ancient science of soul travel."
      > > >
      > > > An introduction by Paul Twitchell (not in 1969, but 1979 version)
      > > > is similar:
      > > >
      > > > "This manuscript was written with the idea of recording an experience that occurred to me, while in the presence of Rebazar Tarzs, the great Tibetan saint, who is the leading advocate of Eckankar, the ancient science of Soul Travel." (p. vii)
      > > >
      > > > ************************
      > > >
      > > > Here is a little trivia for context. 1967 was the first World Wide seminar of Eckankar (I believe). Paul was already advertising Eckankar and Rebazar Tarzs in Understanding Magazine as early as January 1967 (see link).
      > > >
      > > > http://danielfry.com/index.php?id=1067
      > > >
      > > > Besides the year for the first EWWS in 1967, Brad Steiger was already in touch with Paul Twitchell by then:
      > > >
      > > > "My association with Paul Twitchell began when I included a chapter on him in my book, THE ENIGMA OF REINCARNATION (Ace Books, 1967). The mail response to that single chapter was enormous, to say the least. [....]" [Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE (ISBN 0-914766-11-2), by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?), p. 8]
      > > >
      > > > In November 1967 Rebazar Tarzs was mentioned in Search Magazine.
      > > >
      > > > http://tinyurl.com/384e7te
      > > >
      > > > In 1968, Brad Steiger was featured as guest speaker at the 2nd Eck World Wide Seminar (I believe). There is a picture of Paul Twitchell at lower right corner here:
      > > >
      > > > http://sites.google.com/site/pthswiki/
      > > >
      > > > Moreover, 1968 was the year of the first Wisdom Note (January 1968) which, I believe, Paul said were to have no charge on them. The 4th paragraph of the first W.N. mentioned Rebazar Tarzs and other "masters". (For those with the W.N. book take a look at that paragraph for context.) From what I remember, those "masters" would be in communication with some people and giving them instructions, according to Paul.
      > > >
      > > > Darwin Gross and Patti Simpson came to Eckankar in 1968, I believe.
      > > >
      > > > BY this point, 1968, key Eckankar terms were being introduced - such as "ECK Master" and "living ECK Master", I believe. Eventually, "Mahanta" would show up (by 1969, I believe). Books from 1968 include:
      > > > All About ECK, The Key to ECKANKAR, THE KANDJUR, and IN MY SOUL I AM FREE (Brad Steiger). (Not sure if THE KANDJUR was available to the public.)
      > > >
      > > > ************************
      > > >
      > > > So, The Tiger's Fang was one of the first published Eckankar books with mention of Rebazar Tarzs (1967). And (about that book) Brad Steiger wrote in a forward: "Whether The Tiger's Fang is a record of an actual spiritual journey or the vivid impression of a vision that had been granted to few mortal men, must remain a matter for the individual reader to judge. [....]" Of course, that was Brad Steiger. And that was the 1960's.
      > > >
      > > > Harold Klemp - leader of Eckankar for about the last 30 years now - in the early 1980s wrote:
      > > >
      > > > "Paul encouraged people to read The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad ["Eckankar Bible"] and make their own study. He never said to take the words as holy, as the last word. You take the words and check out the teachings from within: Does this work for me or doesn't it? You have to know. And based upon what you know is how you conduct your life out here. This is what governs your relationship with your friends and your family. It governs every aspect of you in the lower worlds, including your ethics and morality."
      > > >
      > > > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html#ideal
      > > >
      > > > I like the part about "You have to know." Sounds good, doesn't it?
      > > > And I'd like to apply this to all of the writings / sayings / words by anybody. Period!
      > > >
      > > > In any case, The Tiger's Fang (the title) comes from a story told at the back of the book where a person tries to present an imitation tiger's fang for the real thing. (Curious that. IMO.)
      > > >
      > > > On p. 170 of the book (Rumi speaking?): "The moral of this story is that one should first pull the tiger's fang before telling the world that he is the killer of tigers."
      > > >
      > > > It begs the question (IMO) whether there were / are "imitations" in any of the Eckankar writings.
      > > >
      > > > One other curious thing Paul added to The Tiger's Fang. Near the very end of the book, where Rumi is speaking, Paul writes (p. 173):
      > > >
      > > > "A fight between two, wild shaggy men interrupted the words flowing from Rumi. He looked up and watched them tumbling about the floor of the Inn. Smiling he said, 'Let them fight, Let them kill one another. That is their free will and their burden and not for us to interfere unless we take upon ourselves a part of their karma. Not that we should never feel the lack of sympathy but never invite yourself to take the burden of another.' [....]"
      > > >
      > > > In all, The Tiger's Fang was more than just an introduction to Rebazar Tarzs ("leading advocate of Eckankar"). It included several others. Like spiritual travelers ("masters") living on other planes, along with lords and rulers of other planes. It even included talks with historical figures from Earth's past.
      > > >
      > > > "Imitations" any of them?
      > > >
      > > > This is what I "have to" know. And if Eckankar can help to clarify what is the truth along these lines I believe it incumbent on the organization to do so. Afterall: "THEY OWN IT!"
      > > >
      > > > Etznab
      > > >
      > > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript to Kirpal Singh and Kirpal said it was not accurate as far as most of the content. That was the end of his relationship with Kirpal!
      > > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings they were all from his very vivid imagination. The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons of Time" are pure Si Fi.
      > > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran. He wanted me to a comic book on him. He rambled so much I could"nt take notes. He did tell me he was originaly from Venus. Needless to say no comic book of Darwin ever was made. At that time I still believed in Eckankar and so it was very confusing to me. I had to do some mental gymnastics so I could still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud yet. It's amazing what one will do to keep something you believe in with all your heart true. I said to my self "He's the Mahanta so I should'nt judge him" The Kal is making me doubt him.
      > > This was an experience that served me well in the future to question and investigate befor I decide if something is true or not.
      > > Diana
      > >
      >
      Darwin did tell me he was from Venus but of course he could't keep his story straight, he was under the influence and I'm sure it influenced his memory.
      I was told that 971 was Pauls address in San Diego and Tarz was a street in the town. That was were he got the idea of being the 971 Mahanta.
      I was told that Dr. Booth(I think that was his name)wrote most of the herb book. He would have girls come to his house so he could diagnos their bodies or aura to see what herbs they needed. He would have them undress so he could look at them. This was told to me by a close friend who had it done to her. She had no reason to lie and was a
      loyal Eckist.
      It seems the more i get into this posting, stray and random memories are coming to me, That have nothing to do with what was asked. So I just post them maybe someone has questions about these things. Many of you were most likly not in Eckankar in those days. I think it sets the tone of what it was like for me back then.
      Diana
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Diana, So who was Paul s girl friend while Darwin was messing around with Gail? Was it Anya Foos-Graber? I figured they weren t getting along well when
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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        Hello Diana,
        So who was Paul's girl friend while
        Darwin was messing around with
        Gail? Was it Anya Foos-Graber?

        I figured they weren't getting along
        well when Paul made some negative
        comments about marriage in a series
        of 1971 interviews for "Difficulties
        of Becoming the LEM." [pgs. 24-25]

        Actually Paul didn't come out with
        the term "Mahanta" in print until
        the Jan. 1, 1969 (monthly) The Wisdom
        Notes.

        I can see how Darwin confused Clairon
        with Venus. Lies are harder to remember
        than the truth.

        That's interesting how paul picked that
        number 971 out of thin air. Now we know
        why.

        BTW- Can you mention anything else
        about Gail and her Sunasu Vitamin scam?
        Paul made a big deal about Not selling
        them in Satsangs and about a guy wanting
        to come in to sell them. I guess she had
        to get rid of Paul in order to have Darwin
        bring them into ECK Centers and Satsangs!

        Also, can you mention anything about
        that creepy John Roger Hinkins. He was
        the 2nd initiate that used Paul's discourses
        for his own religion. Like Paul, he thought
        he knew more than others, and didn't want
        to climb up the ladder slowly. I think he
        saw through the scam and wanted his own.
        He wanted to create his own religion and
        pounce upon the first opportunity... like
        Twit did with Kirpal when he wasn't being
        promoted fast enough.

        Prometheus

        dianastanley wrote:

        Darwin did tell me he was from Venus but
        of course he could't keep his story straight,
        he was under the influence and I'm sure it
        influenced his memory.

        I was told that 971 was Pauls address in
        San Diego and Tarz was a street in the
        town. That was were he got the idea of
        being the 971 Mahanta.

        I was told that Dr. Booth(I think that was
        his name) wrote most of the herb book.
        He would have girls come to his house
        so he could diagnos their bodies or aura
        to see what herbs they needed. He would
        have them undress so he could look at
        them. This was told to me by a close friend
        who had it done to her. She had no reason
        to lie and was a loyal Eckist.

        It seems the more i get into this posting,
        stray and random memories are coming
        to me, That have nothing to do with what
        was asked. So I just post them maybe
        someone has questions about these things.
        Many of you were most likly not in Eckankar
        in those days. I think it sets the tone of what
        it was like for me back then.

        Diana

        prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Diana,
        > > I should say here that regardless
        > > of Doug Marman's opinions Kirpal
        > > finally returned "The Tiger's
        > > Fang" Manuscript (not book) to
        > > Paul in or around June, 1966.
        > >
        > > There was no mention of "Rebazar"
        > > in the original manuscript. Kirpal
        > > was Paul's real Master and this
        > > was the name he mentioned. Paul
        > > substituted "Rebazar" for "Kirpal"
        > > after they had a falling out about
        > > Paul's exaggerations where he
        > > tried to place both himself and
        > > Kirpal on pedestals above all
        > > others in the imaginary worlds
        > > he had created. Kirpal wouldn't
        > > have any of Paul's bullshit because
        > > he hadn't paid his dues, so to speak,
        > > and was a Westerner who, obviously,
        > > needed to feed his huge ego.
        > >
        > > Twit had an agenda and Kirpal saw
        > > through it and wasn't going to be
        > > used to validate Paul's scam. That's
        > > why PT created Rebazar. This way
        > > no one could really challenge him
        > > since this "Master" only appears to
        > > him. Of course, now, this imaginary
        > > character appears in the dreams of
        > > many Eckists. However, Klemp has
        > > to validate and approve (in writing
        > > or verbally in seminar talks) of what
        > > has been seen and said. Rebazar isn't
        > > permitted to hand anyone else the
        > > Rod of ECK Power... even to hold
        > > for a few seconds!
        > >
        > > BTW- I thought Darwin stated that
        > > he was from "Clarion" and not Venus.
        > >
        > > Yes, it is funny the amount of crap
        > > that we try to believe in or accept
        > > because it's convenient and easy
        > > to do so because the Truth would
        > > hurt us. Klemp tells Eckists to take
        > > a "Leap of Faith" and to use their
        > > "imaginations." How does that one
        > > EK song go, "Life life is only a dream... "
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > dianastanley wrote:
        > >
        > > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript
        > > to Kirpal Singh and Kirpal said it was
        > > not accurate as far as most of the content.
        > > That was the end of his relationship
        > > with Kirpal!
        > >
        > > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings
        > > they were all from his very vivid imagination.
        > >
        > > The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons
        > > of Time" are pure Si Fi.
        > >
        > > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran.
        > > He wanted me to a comic book on him.
        > > He rambled so much I could"nt take notes.
        > > He did tell me he was originaly from Venus.
        > >
        > > Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
        > > ever was made.
        > >
        > > At that time I still believed in Eckankar
        > > and so it was very confusing to me. I had
        > > to do some mental gymnastics so I could
        > > still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud
        > > yet. It's amazing what one will do to keep
        > > something you believe in with all your heart
        > > true. I said to my self "He's the Mahanta
        > > so I should'nt judge him" The Kal is making
        > > me doubt him.
        > >
        > > This was an experience that served me
        > > well in the future to question and investigate
        > > befor I decide if something is true or not.
        > >
        > > Diana
      • dianastanley43
        ... I was told Paul had several girl friends. A friend of Anyas told me she was with Paul when he died. I believe it was at a seminar but not sure. I know when
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Diana,
          > So who was Paul's girl friend while
          > Darwin was messing around with
          > Gail? Was it Anya Foos-Graber?
          >
          > I figured they weren't getting along
          > well when Paul made some negative
          > comments about marriage in a series
          > of 1971 interviews for "Difficulties
          > of Becoming the LEM." [pgs. 24-25]
          >
          > Actually Paul didn't come out with
          > the term "Mahanta" in print until
          > the Jan. 1, 1969 (monthly) The Wisdom
          > Notes.
          >
          > I can see how Darwin confused Clairon
          > with Venus. Lies are harder to remember
          > than the truth.
          >
          > That's interesting how paul picked that
          > number 971 out of thin air. Now we know
          > why.
          >
          > BTW- Can you mention anything else
          > about Gail and her Sunasu Vitamin scam?
          > Paul made a big deal about Not selling
          > them in Satsangs and about a guy wanting
          > to come in to sell them. I guess she had
          > to get rid of Paul in order to have Darwin
          > bring them into ECK Centers and Satsangs!
          >
          > Also, can you mention anything about
          > that creepy John Roger Hinkins. He was
          > the 2nd initiate that used Paul's discourses
          > for his own religion. Like Paul, he thought
          > he knew more than others, and didn't want
          > to climb up the ladder slowly. I think he
          > saw through the scam and wanted his own.
          > He wanted to create his own religion and
          > pounce upon the first opportunity... like
          > Twit did with Kirpal when he wasn't being
          > promoted fast enough.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > dianastanley wrote:
          >
          > Darwin did tell me he was from Venus but
          > of course he could't keep his story straight,
          > he was under the influence and I'm sure it
          > influenced his memory.
          >
          > I was told that 971 was Pauls address in
          > San Diego and Tarz was a street in the
          > town. That was were he got the idea of
          > being the 971 Mahanta.
          >
          > I was told that Dr. Booth(I think that was
          > his name) wrote most of the herb book.
          > He would have girls come to his house
          > so he could diagnos their bodies or aura
          > to see what herbs they needed. He would
          > have them undress so he could look at
          > them. This was told to me by a close friend
          > who had it done to her. She had no reason
          > to lie and was a loyal Eckist.
          >
          > It seems the more i get into this posting,
          > stray and random memories are coming
          > to me, That have nothing to do with what
          > was asked. So I just post them maybe
          > someone has questions about these things.
          > Many of you were most likly not in Eckankar
          > in those days. I think it sets the tone of what
          > it was like for me back then.
          >
          > Diana
          >
          > prometheus_973@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hello Diana,
          > > > I should say here that regardless
          > > > of Doug Marman's opinions Kirpal
          > > > finally returned "The Tiger's
          > > > Fang" Manuscript (not book) to
          > > > Paul in or around June, 1966.
          > > >
          > > > There was no mention of "Rebazar"
          > > > in the original manuscript. Kirpal
          > > > was Paul's real Master and this
          > > > was the name he mentioned. Paul
          > > > substituted "Rebazar" for "Kirpal"
          > > > after they had a falling out about
          > > > Paul's exaggerations where he
          > > > tried to place both himself and
          > > > Kirpal on pedestals above all
          > > > others in the imaginary worlds
          > > > he had created. Kirpal wouldn't
          > > > have any of Paul's bullshit because
          > > > he hadn't paid his dues, so to speak,
          > > > and was a Westerner who, obviously,
          > > > needed to feed his huge ego.
          > > >
          > > > Twit had an agenda and Kirpal saw
          > > > through it and wasn't going to be
          > > > used to validate Paul's scam. That's
          > > > why PT created Rebazar. This way
          > > > no one could really challenge him
          > > > since this "Master" only appears to
          > > > him. Of course, now, this imaginary
          > > > character appears in the dreams of
          > > > many Eckists. However, Klemp has
          > > > to validate and approve (in writing
          > > > or verbally in seminar talks) of what
          > > > has been seen and said. Rebazar isn't
          > > > permitted to hand anyone else the
          > > > Rod of ECK Power... even to hold
          > > > for a few seconds!
          > > >
          > > > BTW- I thought Darwin stated that
          > > > he was from "Clarion" and not Venus.
          > > >
          > > > Yes, it is funny the amount of crap
          > > > that we try to believe in or accept
          > > > because it's convenient and easy
          > > > to do so because the Truth would
          > > > hurt us. Klemp tells Eckists to take
          > > > a "Leap of Faith" and to use their
          > > > "imaginations." How does that one
          > > > EK song go, "Life life is only a dream... "
          > > >
          > > > Prometheus
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > dianastanley wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript
          > > > to Kirpal Singh and Kirpal said it was
          > > > not accurate as far as most of the content.
          > > > That was the end of his relationship
          > > > with Kirpal!
          > > >
          > > > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings
          > > > they were all from his very vivid imagination.
          > > >
          > > > The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons
          > > > of Time" are pure Si Fi.
          > > >
          > > > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran.
          > > > He wanted me to a comic book on him.
          > > > He rambled so much I could"nt take notes.
          > > > He did tell me he was originaly from Venus.
          > > >
          > > > Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
          > > > ever was made.
          > > >
          > > > At that time I still believed in Eckankar
          > > > and so it was very confusing to me. I had
          > > > to do some mental gymnastics so I could
          > > > still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud
          > > > yet. It's amazing what one will do to keep
          > > > something you believe in with all your heart
          > > > true. I said to my self "He's the Mahanta
          > > > so I should'nt judge him" The Kal is making
          > > > me doubt him.
          > > >
          > > > This was an experience that served me
          > > > well in the future to question and investigate
          > > > befor I decide if something is true or not.
          > > >
          > > > Diana
          >

          I was told Paul had several girl friends. A friend of Anyas told me she was with Paul when he died. I believe it was at a seminar but not sure.
          I know when I worked in the Vegas office(befor we moved to menlo) They were shipping Sunasu from the shipping dept. Then they stopped as they did'nt want to get cought because Eckankar was a non profit religion and SunaSu was definitly a Product.
          Gail told me Paul developed SunaSu so she would have her own way of making a living. one time I got sick and Darwin had Gail send me a years supply monthly. I tried them and they didn't agree with me. So I would give them to other people.
          When I was living with Helen,Jhon Rogers sent me a money order for $20 and a letter, to tell the truth I can't even remember what it was about. Helen said to keep jt for evidence. I had no idea what she was taking about and she would'nt give me any details. I did'nt even know about the proublems they were having with him or even who he was.
          I was'nt paticulary interested as I was painting the passing of the Rod of Power at that time.
          They decided to make it into a print to sell to the Eckist. So even though they destroyed the painting I am sure there are still prints of it out there. Of course some of the Eckist proubly burned thier copies as well.
          About ten years ago An Eckist wrote to me and asked if I had any prints of it left.( I was selling prints of my latest paintings)They had nothing to do with anything Eck. I had one print so I sent it to him.
          I kept a copy of all the prints and book covers I did for Eck. I have one comic book left. If I can figure out how to put photos on here I will show some of the Comic Strips I did of Talons of Time. They were pretty good if I do say so my self!
          It's fun talking to you guys.
          Diana

          Diana
        • etznab@aol.com
          If Rebazar was not in the original T.F. manuscript I would say Paul did more than just edit out Kirpal s name. I would say Paul created pseudo history and
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            If Rebazar was not in the original T.F. manuscript
            I would say Paul did more than just edit out Kirpal's
            name. I would say Paul created pseudo history and
            religion that is now a part of Eckankar dogma.

            In my research I thought that Paul reportedly gave
            a copy of his T.F. manuscript to at least two, maybe
            three different people (not including Kirpal). I myself
            would really like to view the original manuscript. One
            that Doug Marman seems to believe was written at
            some time in the 1950's.

            Over the years I've also seen quotes reportedly from
            manuscripts (originals of) Letters to Gail that do not
            include Rebazar Tarzs, but Kirpal Singh. These are
            still on the Net, but the individuals who shared these
            illustrations were either anonymous or claimed they
            did not remember where the quotes came from. IOW,
            I was not able to confirm the sources and whether or
            not these alternate versions were credible. Michael
            Turner - over at a.r.e. - posted some of these at one
            time.

            If earlier versions do exist, showing Kirpal Singh in
            the originals of LTG and Eckankar materials, to me it
            would evidence even more pseudo history / religion.

            I think this subject needs to be investigated until a
            point where the original manuscripts turn up. David L.
            illustrated a number of earlier pieces that appear now
            to have changed from the earlier versions. However I
            don't recall David quoting the original Tiger's Fang as
            if he had a copy of it.

            IMO, every member of Eckankar should be allowed
            access to a copy of that original T.F. manuscript that
            in 1963 Paul Twitchell sent to his old master Kirpal S.
            I'd certainly love to find a copy in an old book store, if
            they have not yet been all quarantined, or destroyed.



            -----Original Message-----
            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 6:06 pm
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Tiger's Fang

             
            Hello Diana,
            I should say here that regardless
            of Doug Marman's opinions Kirpal
            finally returned "The Tiger's
            Fang" Manuscript (not book) to
            Paul in or around June, 1966.

            There was no mention of "Rebazar"
            in the original manuscript. Kirpal
            was Paul's real Master and this
            was the name he mentioned. Paul
            substituted "Rebazar" for "Kirpal"
            after they had a falling out about
            Paul's exaggerations where he
            tried to place both himself and
            Kirpal on pedestals above all
            others in the imaginary worlds
            he had created. Kirpal wouldn't
            have any of Paul's bullshit because
            he hadn't paid his dues, so to speak,
            and was a Westerner who, obviously,
            needed to feed his huge ego.

            Twit had an agenda and Kirpal saw
            through it and wasn't going to be
            used to validate Paul's scam. That's
            why PT created Rebazar. This way
            no one could really challenge him
            since this "Master" only appears to
            him. Of course, now, this imaginary
            character appears in the dreams of
            many Eckists. However, Klemp has
            to validate and approve (in writing
            or verbally in seminar talks) of what
            has been seen and said. Rebazar isn't
            permitted to hand anyone else the
            Rod of ECK Power... even to hold
            for a few seconds!

            BTW- I thought Darwin stated that
            he was from "Clarion" and not Venus.

            Yes, it is funny the amount of crap
            that we try to believe in or accept
            because it's convenient and easy
            to do so because the Truth would
            hurt us. Klemp tells Eckists to take
            a "Leap of Faith" and to use their
            "imaginations." How does that one
            EK song go, "Life life is only a dream... "

            Prometheus

            dianastanley wrote:

            Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript
            to Kirpal Singh and Kirpal said it was
            not accurate as far as most of the content.
            That was the end of his relationship
            with Kirpal!

            I have to say that as far as Pauls writings
            they were all from his very vivid imagination.

            The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons
            of Time" are pure Si Fi.

            Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran.
            He wanted me to a comic book on him.
            He rambled so much I could"nt take notes.
            He did tell me he was originaly from Venus.

            Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
            ever was made.

            At that time I still believed in Eckankar
            and so it was very confusing to me. I had
            to do some mental gymnastics so I could
            still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud
            yet. It's amazing what one will do to keep
            something you believe in with all your heart
            true. I said to my self "He's the Mahanta
            so I should'nt judge him" The Kal is making
            me doubt him.

            This was an experience that served me
            well in the future to question and investigate
            befor I decide if something is true or not.

            Diana

            > <etznab@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > For anybody not familiar, a copy of this book was
            published by Lancer Books in 1969, with a Forward by Brad Steiger.
            > >
            > > As far as Eckankar books go, I believe The Tiger's Fang
            came out first in 1967. Before that (at least 1966) was the book
            Introduction to Eckankar.
            > >
            > > Doug Marman writes: "Paul wrote The Tiger's Fang in 1957,
            but did nothing with the book until he offered it to Kirpal Singh in
            1963." (Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 6)
            > >
            > > On my 1969 copy of The Tiger's Fang there is no picture of
            Rebazar Tarzs. However, the second paragraph of the first page reads:
            "In The Tiger's Fang you will meet Paul Twitchell's teacher, the
            all-knowing Rebazar Tarzs ... [....]" That was the very first page.
            Even before the Copyright page and the Forward by Steiger.
            > >
            > > The second paragraph of Steiger's Forward (I'm marking any
            italics words with an asterik)reads:
            > >
            > > "The manuscript, according to its author, Paul Twitchell,
            was written with the intent of recording an experience that occurred to
            him while he was in the company of Rebazar Tarz, the greet Tibetan
            master, who is one of the leading advocates of *Eckankar, the ancient
            science of soul travel."
            > >
            > > An introduction by Paul Twitchell (not in 1969, but 1979
            version)
            > > is similar:
            > >
            > > "This manuscript was written with the idea of recording an
            experience that occurred to me, while in the presence of Rebazar Tarzs,
            the great Tibetan saint, who is the leading advocate of Eckankar, the
            ancient science of Soul Travel." (p. vii)
            > >
            > > ************************
            > >
            > > Here is a little trivia for context. 1967 was the first
            World Wide seminar of Eckankar (I believe). Paul was already
            advertising Eckankar and Rebazar Tarzs in Understanding Magazine as
            early as January 1967 (see link).
            > >
            > > http://danielfry.com/index.php?id=1067
            > >
            > > Besides the year for the first EWWS in 1967, Brad Steiger was
            already in touch with Paul Twitchell by then:
            > >
            > > "My association with Paul Twitchell began when I included a
            chapter on him in my book, THE ENIGMA OF REINCARNATION (Ace Books,
            1967). The mail response to that single chapter was enormous, to say
            the least. [....]" [Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE (ISBN
            0-914766-11-2), by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?), p. 8]
            > >
            > > In November 1967 Rebazar Tarzs was mentioned in Search
            Magazine.
            > >
            > > http://tinyurl.com/384e7te
            > >
            > > In 1968, Brad Steiger was featured as guest speaker at the
            2nd Eck World Wide Seminar (I believe). There is a picture of Paul
            Twitchell at lower right corner here:
            > >
            > > http://sites.google.com/site/pthswiki/
            > >
            > > Moreover, 1968 was the year of the first Wisdom Note
            (January 1968) which, I believe, Paul said were to have no charge on
            them. The 4th paragraph of the first W.N. mentioned Rebazar Tarzs and
            other "masters". (For those with the W.N. book take a look at that
            paragraph for context.) From what I remember, those "masters" would be
            in communication with some people and giving them instructions,
            according to Paul.
            > >
            > > Darwin Gross and Patti Simpson came to Eckankar in 1968, I
            believe.
            > >
            > > BY this point, 1968, key Eckankar terms were being
            introduced - such as "ECK Master" and "living ECK Master", I believe.
            Eventually, "Mahanta" would show up (by 1969, I believe). Books from
            1968 include:
            > > All About ECK, The Key to ECKANKAR, THE KANDJUR, and IN MY
            SOUL I AM FREE (Brad Steiger). (Not sure if THE KANDJUR was available
            to the public.)
            > >
            > > ************************
            > >
            > > So, The Tiger's Fang was one of the first published
            Eckankar books with mention of Rebazar Tarzs (1967). And (about that
            book) Brad Steiger wrote in a forward: "Whether The Tiger's Fang is a
            record of an actual spiritual journey or the vivid impression of a
            vision that had been granted to few mortal men, must remain a matter
            for the individual reader to judge. [....]" Of course, that was Brad
            Steiger. And that was the 1960's.
            > >
            > > Harold Klemp - leader of Eckankar for about the last 30
            years now - in the early 1980s wrote:
            > >
            > > "Paul encouraged people to read The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
            ["Eckankar Bible"] and make their own study. He never said to take the
            words as holy, as the last word. You take the words and check out the
            teachings from within: Does this work for me or doesn't it? You have to
            know. And based upon what you know is how you conduct your life out
            here. This is what governs your relationship with your friends and your
            family. It governs every aspect of you in the lower worlds, including
            your ethics and morality."
            > >
            > > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html#ideal
            > >
            > > I like the part about "You have to know." Sounds good,
            doesn't it?
            > > And I'd like to apply this to all of the writings / sayings /
            words by anybody. Period!
            > >
            > > In any case, The Tiger's Fang (the title) comes from a
            story told at the back of the book where a person tries to present an
            imitation tiger's fang for the real thing. (Curious that. IMO.)
            > >
            > > On p. 170 of the book (Rumi speaking?): "The moral of this
            story is that one should first pull the tiger's fang before telling the
            world that he is the killer of tigers."
            > >
            > > It begs the question (IMO) whether there were / are
            "imitations" in any of the Eckankar writings.
            > >
            > > One other curious thing Paul added to The Tiger's Fang.
            Near the very end of the book, where Rumi is speaking, Paul writes (p.
            173):
            > >
            > > "A fight between two, wild shaggy men interrupted the
            words flowing from Rumi. He looked up and watched them tumbling about
            the floor of the Inn. Smiling he said, 'Let them fight, Let them kill
            one another. That is their free will and their burden and not for us to
            interfere unless we take upon ourselves a part of their karma. Not that
            we should never feel the lack of sympathy but never invite yourself to
            take the burden of another.' [....]"
            > >
            > > In all, The Tiger's Fang was more than just an
            introduction to Rebazar Tarzs ("leading advocate of Eckankar"). It
            included several others. Like spiritual travelers ("masters") living on
            other planes, along with lords and rulers of other planes. It even
            included talks with historical figures from Earth's past.
            > >
            > > "Imitations" any of them?
            > >
            > > This is what I "have to" know. And if Eckankar can help to
            clarify what is the truth along these lines I believe it incumbent on
            the organization to do so. Afterall: "THEY OWN IT!"
            > >
            > > Etznab
            > >
            > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript to Kirpal Singh and
            Kirpal said it was not accurate as far as most of the content. That was
            the end of his relationship with Kirpal!
            > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings they were all from his
            very vivid imagination. The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons of
            Time" are pure Si Fi.
            > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran. He wanted me to a comic
            book on him. He rambled so much I could"nt take notes. He did tell me
            he was originaly from Venus. Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
            ever was made. At that time I still believed in Eckankar and so it was
            very confusing to me. I had to do some mental gymnastics so I could
            still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud yet. It's amazing what
            one will do to keep something you believe in with all your heart true.
            I said to my self "He's the Mahanta so I should'nt judge him" The Kal
            is making me doubt him.
            > This was an experience that served me well in the future to
            question and investigate befor I decide if something is true or not.
            > Diana
            >
          • dianastanley43
            ... The Letters to Gail. wer nt really letters paul wrote and posted to Gail. He made them up so it seemed he was educating her so she knew what she got into
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > If Rebazar was not in the original T.F. manuscript
              > I would say Paul did more than just edit out Kirpal's
              > name. I would say Paul created pseudo history and
              > religion that is now a part of Eckankar dogma.
              >
              > In my research I thought that Paul reportedly gave
              > a copy of his T.F. manuscript to at least two, maybe
              > three different people (not including Kirpal). I myself
              > would really like to view the original manuscript. One
              > that Doug Marman seems to believe was written at
              > some time in the 1950's.
              >
              > Over the years I've also seen quotes reportedly from
              > manuscripts (originals of) Letters to Gail that do not
              > include Rebazar Tarzs, but Kirpal Singh. These are
              > still on the Net, but the individuals who shared these
              > illustrations were either anonymous or claimed they
              > did not remember where the quotes came from. IOW,
              > I was not able to confirm the sources and whether or
              > not these alternate versions were credible. Michael
              > Turner - over at a.r.e. - posted some of these at one
              > time.
              >
              > If earlier versions do exist, showing Kirpal Singh in
              > the originals of LTG and Eckankar materials, to me it
              > would evidence even more pseudo history / religion.
              >
              > I think this subject needs to be investigated until a
              > point where the original manuscripts turn up. David L.
              > illustrated a number of earlier pieces that appear now
              > to have changed from the earlier versions. However I
              > don't recall David quoting the original Tiger's Fang as
              > if he had a copy of it.
              >
              > IMO, every member of Eckankar should be allowed
              > access to a copy of that original T.F. manuscript that
              > in 1963 Paul Twitchell sent to his old master Kirpal S.
              > I'd certainly love to find a copy in an old book store, if
              > they have not yet been all quarantined, or destroyed.
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 6:06 pm
              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Tiger's Fang
              >
              >  
              > Hello Diana,
              > I should say here that regardless
              > of Doug Marman's opinions Kirpal
              > finally returned "The Tiger's
              > Fang" Manuscript (not book) to
              > Paul in or around June, 1966.
              >
              > There was no mention of "Rebazar"
              > in the original manuscript. Kirpal
              > was Paul's real Master and this
              > was the name he mentioned. Paul
              > substituted "Rebazar" for "Kirpal"
              > after they had a falling out about
              > Paul's exaggerations where he
              > tried to place both himself and
              > Kirpal on pedestals above all
              > others in the imaginary worlds
              > he had created. Kirpal wouldn't
              > have any of Paul's bullshit because
              > he hadn't paid his dues, so to speak,
              > and was a Westerner who, obviously,
              > needed to feed his huge ego.
              >
              > Twit had an agenda and Kirpal saw
              > through it and wasn't going to be
              > used to validate Paul's scam. That's
              > why PT created Rebazar. This way
              > no one could really challenge him
              > since this "Master" only appears to
              > him. Of course, now, this imaginary
              > character appears in the dreams of
              > many Eckists. However, Klemp has
              > to validate and approve (in writing
              > or verbally in seminar talks) of what
              > has been seen and said. Rebazar isn't
              > permitted to hand anyone else the
              > Rod of ECK Power... even to hold
              > for a few seconds!
              >
              > BTW- I thought Darwin stated that
              > he was from "Clarion" and not Venus.
              >
              > Yes, it is funny the amount of crap
              > that we try to believe in or accept
              > because it's convenient and easy
              > to do so because the Truth would
              > hurt us. Klemp tells Eckists to take
              > a "Leap of Faith" and to use their
              > "imaginations." How does that one
              > EK song go, "Life life is only a dream... "
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > dianastanley wrote:
              >
              > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript
              > to Kirpal Singh and Kirpal said it was
              > not accurate as far as most of the content.
              > That was the end of his relationship
              > with Kirpal!
              >
              > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings
              > they were all from his very vivid imagination.
              >
              > The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons
              > of Time" are pure Si Fi.
              >
              > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran.
              > He wanted me to a comic book on him.
              > He rambled so much I could"nt take notes.
              > He did tell me he was originaly from Venus.
              >
              > Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
              > ever was made.
              >
              > At that time I still believed in Eckankar
              > and so it was very confusing to me. I had
              > to do some mental gymnastics so I could
              > still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud
              > yet. It's amazing what one will do to keep
              > something you believe in with all your heart
              > true. I said to my self "He's the Mahanta
              > so I should'nt judge him" The Kal is making
              > me doubt him.
              >
              > This was an experience that served me
              > well in the future to question and investigate
              > befor I decide if something is true or not.
              >
              > Diana
              >
              > > <etznab@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > For anybody not familiar, a copy of this book was
              > published by Lancer Books in 1969, with a Forward by Brad Steiger.
              > > >
              > > > As far as Eckankar books go, I believe The Tiger's Fang
              > came out first in 1967. Before that (at least 1966) was the book
              > Introduction to Eckankar.
              > > >
              > > > Doug Marman writes: "Paul wrote The Tiger's Fang in 1957,
              > but did nothing with the book until he offered it to Kirpal Singh in
              > 1963." (Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 6)
              > > >
              > > > On my 1969 copy of The Tiger's Fang there is no picture of
              > Rebazar Tarzs. However, the second paragraph of the first page reads:
              > "In The Tiger's Fang you will meet Paul Twitchell's teacher, the
              > all-knowing Rebazar Tarzs ... [....]" That was the very first page.
              > Even before the Copyright page and the Forward by Steiger.
              > > >
              > > > The second paragraph of Steiger's Forward (I'm marking any
              > italics words with an asterik)reads:
              > > >
              > > > "The manuscript, according to its author, Paul Twitchell,
              > was written with the intent of recording an experience that occurred to
              > him while he was in the company of Rebazar Tarz, the greet Tibetan
              > master, who is one of the leading advocates of *Eckankar, the ancient
              > science of soul travel."
              > > >
              > > > An introduction by Paul Twitchell (not in 1969, but 1979
              > version)
              > > > is similar:
              > > >
              > > > "This manuscript was written with the idea of recording an
              > experience that occurred to me, while in the presence of Rebazar Tarzs,
              > the great Tibetan saint, who is the leading advocate of Eckankar, the
              > ancient science of Soul Travel." (p. vii)
              > > >
              > > > ************************
              > > >
              > > > Here is a little trivia for context. 1967 was the first
              > World Wide seminar of Eckankar (I believe). Paul was already
              > advertising Eckankar and Rebazar Tarzs in Understanding Magazine as
              > early as January 1967 (see link).
              > > >
              > > > http://danielfry.com/index.php?id=1067
              > > >
              > > > Besides the year for the first EWWS in 1967, Brad Steiger was
              > already in touch with Paul Twitchell by then:
              > > >
              > > > "My association with Paul Twitchell began when I included a
              > chapter on him in my book, THE ENIGMA OF REINCARNATION (Ace Books,
              > 1967). The mail response to that single chapter was enormous, to say
              > the least. [....]" [Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE (ISBN
              > 0-914766-11-2), by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?), p. 8]
              > > >
              > > > In November 1967 Rebazar Tarzs was mentioned in Search
              > Magazine.
              > > >
              > > > http://tinyurl.com/384e7te
              > > >
              > > > In 1968, Brad Steiger was featured as guest speaker at the
              > 2nd Eck World Wide Seminar (I believe). There is a picture of Paul
              > Twitchell at lower right corner here:
              > > >
              > > > http://sites.google.com/site/pthswiki/
              > > >
              > > > Moreover, 1968 was the year of the first Wisdom Note
              > (January 1968) which, I believe, Paul said were to have no charge on
              > them. The 4th paragraph of the first W.N. mentioned Rebazar Tarzs and
              > other "masters". (For those with the W.N. book take a look at that
              > paragraph for context.) From what I remember, those "masters" would be
              > in communication with some people and giving them instructions,
              > according to Paul.
              > > >
              > > > Darwin Gross and Patti Simpson came to Eckankar in 1968, I
              > believe.
              > > >
              > > > BY this point, 1968, key Eckankar terms were being
              > introduced - such as "ECK Master" and "living ECK Master", I believe.
              > Eventually, "Mahanta" would show up (by 1969, I believe). Books from
              > 1968 include:
              > > > All About ECK, The Key to ECKANKAR, THE KANDJUR, and IN MY
              > SOUL I AM FREE (Brad Steiger). (Not sure if THE KANDJUR was available
              > to the public.)
              > > >
              > > > ************************
              > > >
              > > > So, The Tiger's Fang was one of the first published
              > Eckankar books with mention of Rebazar Tarzs (1967). And (about that
              > book) Brad Steiger wrote in a forward: "Whether The Tiger's Fang is a
              > record of an actual spiritual journey or the vivid impression of a
              > vision that had been granted to few mortal men, must remain a matter
              > for the individual reader to judge. [....]" Of course, that was Brad
              > Steiger. And that was the 1960's.
              > > >
              > > > Harold Klemp - leader of Eckankar for about the last 30
              > years now - in the early 1980s wrote:
              > > >
              > > > "Paul encouraged people to read The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
              > ["Eckankar Bible"] and make their own study. He never said to take the
              > words as holy, as the last word. You take the words and check out the
              > teachings from within: Does this work for me or doesn't it? You have to
              > know. And based upon what you know is how you conduct your life out
              > here. This is what governs your relationship with your friends and your
              > family. It governs every aspect of you in the lower worlds, including
              > your ethics and morality."
              > > >
              > > > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html#ideal
              > > >
              > > > I like the part about "You have to know." Sounds good,
              > doesn't it?
              > > > And I'd like to apply this to all of the writings / sayings /
              > words by anybody. Period!
              > > >
              > > > In any case, The Tiger's Fang (the title) comes from a
              > story told at the back of the book where a person tries to present an
              > imitation tiger's fang for the real thing. (Curious that. IMO.)
              > > >
              > > > On p. 170 of the book (Rumi speaking?): "The moral of this
              > story is that one should first pull the tiger's fang before telling the
              > world that he is the killer of tigers."
              > > >
              > > > It begs the question (IMO) whether there were / are
              > "imitations" in any of the Eckankar writings.
              > > >
              > > > One other curious thing Paul added to The Tiger's Fang.
              > Near the very end of the book, where Rumi is speaking, Paul writes (p.
              > 173):
              > > >
              > > > "A fight between two, wild shaggy men interrupted the
              > words flowing from Rumi. He looked up and watched them tumbling about
              > the floor of the Inn. Smiling he said, 'Let them fight, Let them kill
              > one another. That is their free will and their burden and not for us to
              > interfere unless we take upon ourselves a part of their karma. Not that
              > we should never feel the lack of sympathy but never invite yourself to
              > take the burden of another.' [....]"
              > > >
              > > > In all, The Tiger's Fang was more than just an
              > introduction to Rebazar Tarzs ("leading advocate of Eckankar"). It
              > included several others. Like spiritual travelers ("masters") living on
              > other planes, along with lords and rulers of other planes. It even
              > included talks with historical figures from Earth's past.
              > > >
              > > > "Imitations" any of them?
              > > >
              > > > This is what I "have to" know. And if Eckankar can help to
              > clarify what is the truth along these lines I believe it incumbent on
              > the organization to do so. Afterall: "THEY OWN IT!"
              > > >
              > > > Etznab
              > > >
              > > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript to Kirpal Singh and
              > Kirpal said it was not accurate as far as most of the content. That was
              > the end of his relationship with Kirpal!
              > > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings they were all from his
              > very vivid imagination. The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons of
              > Time" are pure Si Fi.
              > > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran. He wanted me to a comic
              > book on him. He rambled so much I could"nt take notes. He did tell me
              > he was originaly from Venus. Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
              > ever was made. At that time I still believed in Eckankar and so it was
              > very confusing to me. I had to do some mental gymnastics so I could
              > still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud yet. It's amazing what
              > one will do to keep something you believe in with all your heart true.
              > I said to my self "He's the Mahanta so I should'nt judge him" The Kal
              > is making me doubt him.
              > > This was an experience that served me well in the future to
              > question and investigate befor I decide if something is true or not.
              > > Diana
              > >
              >
              The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really letters paul wrote and posted to Gail. He made them up so it seemed he was educating her so she knew what she got into when she married him. What a caring man to write that many letters to his future wife!!!
              Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
              Diana
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Etznab, There s no if about it. Rebazar is a fictional comic book/religious character! Paul wrote The Tiger s Fang to impress his Master... Kirpal
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                Hello Etznab,
                There's no "if" about it. Rebazar is a fictional
                comic book/religious character! Paul wrote
                The Tiger's Fang to impress his Master... Kirpal
                Singh. PT was with Kirpal for 10 years (1955-
                1965) while, at the same time, exploring other
                philosophies and paths.

                And, of course, Paul reedited The Tiger's Fang,
                after their disagreement, just like he reedited
                The Flute of God and even the Shariyat. Don't
                put too much weight upon what Doug Marman
                has to say. Why? He's a Klemp apologist and
                a H.I. and can't be trusted. He's simply feathering
                his own nest in hopes of receiving that next
                Initiation, selling books, and establishing an
                EK following of sorts. Or maybe he's hoping
                his pal, little Harry, will pass him the Rod...
                someday!

                Klemp even states on Eckankar.org that
                Kirpal returned The Tiger's Fang manuscript
                after they had a falling out.

                Plus, on Eckankar.org Klemp mentions
                Kirpal's name about 17 times while HK
                mentions the fictitious "Sudar Singh"
                (another name substitution for Kirpal
                Singh) about 5 times.

                I doubt that you could find anything
                written by Paul, prior to 1966, that
                mentions Rebazar, although, he (later)
                claimed to have been initiated by him,
                first, in 1935 and, again, on a second
                trip to India (to the 12th) around 1951.

                Prometheus

                etznab@... wrote:
                >
                >
                > If Rebazar was not in the original T.F. manuscript
                > I would say Paul did more than just edit out Kirpal's
                > name. I would say Paul created pseudo history and
                > religion that is now a part of Eckankar dogma.
                >
                > In my research I thought that Paul reportedly gave
                > a copy of his T.F. manuscript to at least two, maybe
                > three different people (not including Kirpal). I myself
                > would really like to view the original manuscript. One
                > that Doug Marman seems to believe was written at
                > some time in the 1950's.
                >
                > Over the years I've also seen quotes reportedly from
                > manuscripts (originals of) Letters to Gail that do not
                > include Rebazar Tarzs, but Kirpal Singh. These are
                > still on the Net, but the individuals who shared these
                > illustrations were either anonymous or claimed they
                > did not remember where the quotes came from. IOW,
                > I was not able to confirm the sources and whether or
                > not these alternate versions were credible. Michael
                > Turner - over at a.r.e. - posted some of these at one
                > time.
                >
                > If earlier versions do exist, showing Kirpal Singh in
                > the originals of LTG and Eckankar materials, to me it
                > would evidence even more pseudo history / religion.
                >
                > I think this subject needs to be investigated until a
                > point where the original manuscripts turn up. David L.
                > illustrated a number of earlier pieces that appear now
                > to have changed from the earlier versions. However I
                > don't recall David quoting the original Tiger's Fang as
                > if he had a copy of it.
                >
                > IMO, every member of Eckankar should be allowed
                > access to a copy of that original T.F. manuscript that
                > in 1963 Paul Twitchell sent to his old master Kirpal S.
                > I'd certainly love to find a copy in an old book store, if
                > they have not yet been all quarantined, or destroyed.
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 6:06 pm
                > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The Tiger's Fang
                >
                >  
                > Hello Diana,
                > I should say here that regardless
                > of Doug Marman's opinions Kirpal
                > finally returned "The Tiger's
                > Fang" Manuscript (not book) to
                > Paul in or around June, 1966.
                >
                > There was no mention of "Rebazar"
                > in the original manuscript. Kirpal
                > was Paul's real Master and this
                > was the name he mentioned. Paul
                > substituted "Rebazar" for "Kirpal"
                > after they had a falling out about
                > Paul's exaggerations where he
                > tried to place both himself and
                > Kirpal on pedestals above all
                > others in the imaginary worlds
                > he had created. Kirpal wouldn't
                > have any of Paul's bullshit because
                > he hadn't paid his dues, so to speak,
                > and was a Westerner who, obviously,
                > needed to feed his huge ego.
                >
                > Twit had an agenda and Kirpal saw
                > through it and wasn't going to be
                > used to validate Paul's scam. That's
                > why PT created Rebazar. This way
                > no one could really challenge him
                > since this "Master" only appears to
                > him. Of course, now, this imaginary
                > character appears in the dreams of
                > many Eckists. However, Klemp has
                > to validate and approve (in writing
                > or verbally in seminar talks) of what
                > has been seen and said. Rebazar isn't
                > permitted to hand anyone else the
                > Rod of ECK Power... even to hold
                > for a few seconds!
                >
                > BTW- I thought Darwin stated that
                > he was from "Clarion" and not Venus.
                >
                > Yes, it is funny the amount of crap
                > that we try to believe in or accept
                > because it's convenient and easy
                > to do so because the Truth would
                > hurt us. Klemp tells Eckists to take
                > a "Leap of Faith" and to use their
                > "imaginations." How does that one
                > EK song go, "Life life is only a dream... "
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > dianastanley wrote:
                >
                > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript
                > to Kirpal Singh and Kirpal said it was
                > not accurate as far as most of the content.
                > That was the end of his relationship
                > with Kirpal!
                >
                > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings
                > they were all from his very vivid imagination.
                >
                > The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons
                > of Time" are pure Si Fi.
                >
                > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran.
                > He wanted me to a comic book on him.
                > He rambled so much I could"nt take notes.
                > He did tell me he was originaly from Venus.
                >
                > Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
                > ever was made.
                >
                > At that time I still believed in Eckankar
                > and so it was very confusing to me. I had
                > to do some mental gymnastics so I could
                > still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud
                > yet. It's amazing what one will do to keep
                > something you believe in with all your heart
                > true. I said to my self "He's the Mahanta
                > so I should'nt judge him" The Kal is making
                > me doubt him.
                >
                > This was an experience that served me
                > well in the future to question and investigate
                > befor I decide if something is true or not.
                >
                > Diana
                >
                > > <etznab@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > For anybody not familiar, a copy of this book was
                > published by Lancer Books in 1969, with a Forward by Brad Steiger.
                > > >
                > > > As far as Eckankar books go, I believe The Tiger's Fang
                > came out first in 1967. Before that (at least 1966) was the book
                > Introduction to Eckankar.
                > > >
                > > > Doug Marman writes: "Paul wrote The Tiger's Fang in 1957,
                > but did nothing with the book until he offered it to Kirpal Singh in
                > 1963." (Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 6)
                > > >
                > > > On my 1969 copy of The Tiger's Fang there is no picture of
                > Rebazar Tarzs. However, the second paragraph of the first page reads:
                > "In The Tiger's Fang you will meet Paul Twitchell's teacher, the
                > all-knowing Rebazar Tarzs ... [....]" That was the very first page.
                > Even before the Copyright page and the Forward by Steiger.
                > > >
                > > > The second paragraph of Steiger's Forward (I'm marking any
                > italics words with an asterik)reads:
                > > >
                > > > "The manuscript, according to its author, Paul Twitchell,
                > was written with the intent of recording an experience that occurred to
                > him while he was in the company of Rebazar Tarz, the greet Tibetan
                > master, who is one of the leading advocates of *Eckankar, the ancient
                > science of soul travel."
                > > >
                > > > An introduction by Paul Twitchell (not in 1969, but 1979
                > version)
                > > > is similar:
                > > >
                > > > "This manuscript was written with the idea of recording an
                > experience that occurred to me, while in the presence of Rebazar Tarzs,
                > the great Tibetan saint, who is the leading advocate of Eckankar, the
                > ancient science of Soul Travel." (p. vii)
                > > >
                > > > ************************
                > > >
                > > > Here is a little trivia for context. 1967 was the first
                > World Wide seminar of Eckankar (I believe). Paul was already
                > advertising Eckankar and Rebazar Tarzs in Understanding Magazine as
                > early as January 1967 (see link).
                > > >
                > > > http://danielfry.com/index.php?id=1067
                > > >
                > > > Besides the year for the first EWWS in 1967, Brad Steiger was
                > already in touch with Paul Twitchell by then:
                > > >
                > > > "My association with Paul Twitchell began when I included a
                > chapter on him in my book, THE ENIGMA OF REINCARNATION (Ace Books,
                > 1967). The mail response to that single chapter was enormous, to say
                > the least. [....]" [Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE (ISBN
                > 0-914766-11-2), by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?), p. 8]
                > > >
                > > > In November 1967 Rebazar Tarzs was mentioned in Search
                > Magazine.
                > > >
                > > > http://tinyurl.com/384e7te
                > > >
                > > > In 1968, Brad Steiger was featured as guest speaker at the
                > 2nd Eck World Wide Seminar (I believe). There is a picture of Paul
                > Twitchell at lower right corner here:
                > > >
                > > > http://sites.google.com/site/pthswiki/
                > > >
                > > > Moreover, 1968 was the year of the first Wisdom Note
                > (January 1968) which, I believe, Paul said were to have no charge on
                > them. The 4th paragraph of the first W.N. mentioned Rebazar Tarzs and
                > other "masters". (For those with the W.N. book take a look at that
                > paragraph for context.) From what I remember, those "masters" would be
                > in communication with some people and giving them instructions,
                > according to Paul.
                > > >
                > > > Darwin Gross and Patti Simpson came to Eckankar in 1968, I
                > believe.
                > > >
                > > > BY this point, 1968, key Eckankar terms were being
                > introduced - such as "ECK Master" and "living ECK Master", I believe.
                > Eventually, "Mahanta" would show up (by 1969, I believe). Books from
                > 1968 include:
                > > > All About ECK, The Key to ECKANKAR, THE KANDJUR, and IN MY
                > SOUL I AM FREE (Brad Steiger). (Not sure if THE KANDJUR was available
                > to the public.)
                > > >
                > > > ************************
                > > >
                > > > So, The Tiger's Fang was one of the first published
                > Eckankar books with mention of Rebazar Tarzs (1967). And (about that
                > book) Brad Steiger wrote in a forward: "Whether The Tiger's Fang is a
                > record of an actual spiritual journey or the vivid impression of a
                > vision that had been granted to few mortal men, must remain a matter
                > for the individual reader to judge. [....]" Of course, that was Brad
                > Steiger. And that was the 1960's.
                > > >
                > > > Harold Klemp - leader of Eckankar for about the last 30
                > years now - in the early 1980s wrote:
                > > >
                > > > "Paul encouraged people to read The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
                > ["Eckankar Bible"] and make their own study. He never said to take the
                > words as holy, as the last word. You take the words and check out the
                > teachings from within: Does this work for me or doesn't it? You have to
                > know. And based upon what you know is how you conduct your life out
                > here. This is what governs your relationship with your friends and your
                > family. It governs every aspect of you in the lower worlds, including
                > your ethics and morality."
                > > >
                > > > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html#ideal
                > > >
                > > > I like the part about "You have to know." Sounds good,
                > doesn't it?
                > > > And I'd like to apply this to all of the writings / sayings /
                > words by anybody. Period!
                > > >
                > > > In any case, The Tiger's Fang (the title) comes from a
                > story told at the back of the book where a person tries to present an
                > imitation tiger's fang for the real thing. (Curious that. IMO.)
                > > >
                > > > On p. 170 of the book (Rumi speaking?): "The moral of this
                > story is that one should first pull the tiger's fang before telling the
                > world that he is the killer of tigers."
                > > >
                > > > It begs the question (IMO) whether there were / are
                > "imitations" in any of the Eckankar writings.
                > > >
                > > > One other curious thing Paul added to The Tiger's Fang.
                > Near the very end of the book, where Rumi is speaking, Paul writes (p.
                > 173):
                > > >
                > > > "A fight between two, wild shaggy men interrupted the
                > words flowing from Rumi. He looked up and watched them tumbling about
                > the floor of the Inn. Smiling he said, 'Let them fight, Let them kill
                > one another. That is their free will and their burden and not for us to
                > interfere unless we take upon ourselves a part of their karma. Not that
                > we should never feel the lack of sympathy but never invite yourself to
                > take the burden of another.' [....]"
                > > >
                > > > In all, The Tiger's Fang was more than just an
                > introduction to Rebazar Tarzs ("leading advocate of Eckankar"). It
                > included several others. Like spiritual travelers ("masters") living on
                > other planes, along with lords and rulers of other planes. It even
                > included talks with historical figures from Earth's past.
                > > >
                > > > "Imitations" any of them?
                > > >
                > > > This is what I "have to" know. And if Eckankar can help to
                > clarify what is the truth along these lines I believe it incumbent on
                > the organization to do so. Afterall: "THEY OWN IT!"
                > > >
                > > > Etznab
                > > >
                > > Paul did send a copy of the Manuscript to Kirpal Singh and
                > Kirpal said it was not accurate as far as most of the content. That was
                > the end of his relationship with Kirpal!
                > > I have to say that as far as Pauls writings they were all from his
                > very vivid imagination. The books "The Drums of ECK", The Talons of
                > Time" are pure Si Fi.
                > > Darwin had me up to his place in San Fran. He wanted me to a comic
                > book on him. He rambled so much I could"nt take notes. He did tell me
                > he was originaly from Venus. Needless to say no comic book of Darwin
                > ever was made. At that time I still believed in Eckankar and so it was
                > very confusing to me. I had to do some mental gymnastics so I could
                > still believe. I was'nt ready to call It a Fraud yet. It's amazing what
                > one will do to keep something you believe in with all your heart true.
                > I said to my self "He's the Mahanta so I should'nt judge him" The Kal
                > is making me doubt him.
                > > This was an experience that served me well in the future to
                > question and investigate befor I decide if something is true or not.
                > > Diana
                > >
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Hello Diana, Thanks for enlightening us about Letters to Gail. I always thought it was a little too preachy to be real. Paul probably wrote them in the
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                  Hello Diana,
                  Thanks for enlightening us about
                  "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                  it was a little too preachy to be real.

                  Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                  beginnings of Eckankar when he
                  needed to start selling himself to
                  the public. By this time he and Gail
                  had been married for at least two
                  or three years. What's the copyright
                  date on "Letters to Gail?"

                  That's interesting that Gail had/has
                  a twin sister. I wonder how much her
                  twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                  Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.

                  Prometheus

                  dianastanley wrote:

                  The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                  letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.

                  He made them up so it seemed he
                  was educating her so she knew what
                  she got into when she married him.

                  What a caring man to write that many
                  letters to his future wife!!!

                  Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.

                  Diana
                • dianastanley43
                  ... I don t know the date he wrote them I know I could t wait for the second copy to come out. I thought they were info for us who just got in Eck. I m working
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Diana,
                    > Thanks for enlightening us about
                    > "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                    > it was a little too preachy to be real.
                    >
                    > Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                    > beginnings of Eckankar when he
                    > needed to start selling himself to
                    > the public. By this time he and Gail
                    > had been married for at least two
                    > or three years. What's the copyright
                    > date on "Letters to Gail?"
                    >
                    > That's interesting that Gail had/has
                    > a twin sister. I wonder how much her

                    I don"t know the date he wrote them I know I could't wait for the second copy to come out. I thought they were info for us who just got in Eck.
                    I'm working on a catalog of my most recent paintings that are now in print. So when I get tired of work I click on here and have coffee with you guys!
                    > twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                    > Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    > dianastanley wrote:
                    >
                    > The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                    > letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.
                    >
                    > He made them up so it seemed he
                    > was educating her so she knew what
                    > she got into when she married him.
                    >
                    > What a caring man to write that many
                    > letters to his future wife!!!
                    >
                    > Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
                    >
                    > Diana
                    >
                  • etznab@aol.com
                    The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The following words appear on the first page (in italics): ECKANKAR ECK Master Rebazar Tarzs MAHANTA This was
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                      The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The following words
                      appear on the first page (in italics):

                      ECKANKAR

                      ECK Master

                      Rebazar Tarzs

                      MAHANTA

                      This was supposedly the year 1962! Do you think those words appeared in
                      the original? Or did Gail and Darwin (somebody) do some editing?

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 1:36 pm
                      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her Sunasu

                       
                      Hello Diana,
                      Thanks for enlightening us about
                      "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                      it was a little too preachy to be real.

                      Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                      beginnings of Eckankar when he
                      needed to start selling himself to
                      the public. By this time he and Gail
                      had been married for at least two
                      or three years. What's the copyright
                      date on "Letters to Gail?"

                      That's interesting that Gail had/has
                      a twin sister. I wonder how much her
                      twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                      Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.

                      Prometheus

                      dianastanley wrote:

                      The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                      letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.

                      He made them up so it seemed he
                      was educating her so she knew what
                      she got into when she married him.

                      What a caring man to write that many
                      letters to his future wife!!!

                      Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.

                      Diana
                    • prometheus_973
                      Hello Etznab, It doesn t matter what the date was on the phony letter. It too is phony. Diana said that Twit did these letters after he and Gail were married
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                        Hello Etznab,
                        It doesn't matter what the date
                        was on the phony letter. It too is
                        phony. Diana said that Twit did
                        these letters "after" he and Gail
                        were married and they were married
                        in 1963. The key is the copyright
                        date in the book and I know it has
                        to be after Jan. 1, 1969 because
                        "Mahanta" wasn't mentioned until
                        then. Twitchell was a conman and
                        liar and did all sorts of reediting,
                        plagiarism, substitution, etc.

                        etznab@... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The following words
                        > appear on the first page (in italics):
                        >
                        > ECKANKAR
                        >
                        > ECK Master
                        >
                        > Rebazar Tarzs
                        >
                        > MAHANTA
                        >
                        > This was supposedly the year 1962! Do you think those words appeared in
                        > the original? Or did Gail and Darwin (somebody) do some editing?
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 1:36 pm
                        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her Sunasu
                        >
                        >  
                        > Hello Diana,
                        > Thanks for enlightening us about
                        > "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                        > it was a little too preachy to be real.
                        >
                        > Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                        > beginnings of Eckankar when he
                        > needed to start selling himself to
                        > the public. By this time he and Gail
                        > had been married for at least two
                        > or three years. What's the copyright
                        > date on "Letters to Gail?"
                        >
                        > That's interesting that Gail had/has
                        > a twin sister. I wonder how much her
                        > twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                        > Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        > dianastanley wrote:
                        >
                        > The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                        > letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.
                        >
                        > He made them up so it seemed he
                        > was educating her so she knew what
                        > she got into when she married him.
                        >
                        > What a caring man to write that many
                        > letters to his future wife!!!
                        >
                        > Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
                        >
                        > Diana
                        >
                      • dianastanley43
                        ... Diana
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello Etznab,
                          > It doesn't matter what the date
                          > was on the phony letter. It too is
                          > phony. Diana said that Twit did
                          > these letters "after" he and Gail
                          > were married and they were married
                          > in 1963. The key is the copyright
                          > date in the book and I know it has
                          > to be after Jan. 1, 1969 because
                          > "Mahanta" wasn't mentioned until
                          > then. Twitchell was a conman and
                          > liar and did all sorts of reediting,
                          > plagiarism, substitution, etc.
                          >
                          > etznab@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The following words
                          > > appear on the first page (in italics):
                          > >
                          > > ECKANKAR
                          > >
                          > > ECK Master
                          > >
                          > > Rebazar Tarzs
                          > >
                          > > MAHANTA
                          > >
                          > > This was supposedly the year 1962! Do you think those words appeared in
                          > > the original? Or did Gail and Darwin (somebody) do some editing?
                          > >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@>
                          > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 1:36 pm
                          > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her Sunasu
                          > >
                          > >  
                          > > Hello Diana,
                          > > Thanks for enlightening us about
                          > > "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                          > > it was a little too preachy to be real.
                          > >
                          > > Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                          > > beginnings of Eckankar when he
                          > > needed to start selling himself to
                          > > the public. By this time he and Gail
                          > > had been married for at least two
                          > > or three years. What's the copyright
                          > > date on "Letters to Gail?"
                          > >
                          > > That's interesting that Gail had/has
                          > > a twin sister. I wonder how much her
                          > > twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                          > > Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.
                          > >
                          > > Prometheus
                          > >
                          > > dianastanley wrote:
                          > >
                          > > The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                          > > letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.
                          > >
                          > > He made them up so it seemed he
                          > > was educating her so she knew what
                          > > she got into when she married him.
                          > >
                          > > What a caring man to write that many
                          > > letters to his future wife!!!
                          > >
                          > > Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
                          > >
                          > > Diana
                          > >
                          > I don't know when Paul wrote the letters to Gail. I always figured they lived togeather befor they were married,Just my opinion.
                          Diana
                        • etznab@aol.com
                          I didn t know that before. What Diana said. I assumed the letters were written on the dates assigned to them in the book. After all, they are all dated at the
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                            I didn't know that before. What Diana said. I assumed the letters were
                            written on the dates assigned to them in the book. After all, they are
                            all dated at the beginning of each letter.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 8:44 pm
                            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her Sunasu

                             
                            Hello Etznab,
                            It doesn't matter what the date
                            was on the phony letter. It too is
                            phony. Diana said that Twit did
                            these letters "after" he and Gail
                            were married and they were married
                            in 1963. The key is the copyright
                            date in the book and I know it has
                            to be after Jan. 1, 1969 because
                            "Mahanta" wasn't mentioned until
                            then. Twitchell was a conman and
                            liar and did all sorts of reediting,
                            plagiarism, substitution, etc.

                            etznab@... wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The following words
                            > appear on the first page (in italics):
                            >
                            > ECKANKAR
                            >
                            > ECK Master
                            >
                            > Rebazar Tarzs
                            >
                            > MAHANTA
                            >
                            > This was supposedly the year 1962! Do you think those words
                            appeared in
                            > the original? Or did Gail and Darwin (somebody) do some editing?
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 1:36 pm
                            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her
                            Sunasu
                            >
                            >  
                            > Hello Diana,
                            > Thanks for enlightening us about
                            > "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                            > it was a little too preachy to be real.
                            >
                            > Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                            > beginnings of Eckankar when he
                            > needed to start selling himself to
                            > the public. By this time he and Gail
                            > had been married for at least two
                            > or three years. What's the copyright
                            > date on "Letters to Gail?"
                            >
                            > That's interesting that Gail had/has
                            > a twin sister. I wonder how much her
                            > twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                            > Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                            > dianastanley wrote:
                            >
                            > The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                            > letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.
                            >
                            > He made them up so it seemed he
                            > was educating her so she knew what
                            > she got into when she married him.
                            >
                            > What a caring man to write that many
                            > letters to his future wife!!!
                            >
                            > Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
                            >
                            > Diana
                            >
                          • prometheus_973
                            Hello Diana and Etznab, Okay, I thought Diana said that they were married at the time of the letters. I think that Paul did post dated them for the time he was
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                              Hello Diana and Etznab,
                              Okay, I thought Diana said that
                              they were married at the time of
                              the letters. I think that Paul did
                              post dated them for the time
                              he was in California and Gail was
                              still in Seattle. Then, Paul claims
                              he sent for her or something like
                              that and they were married. I still
                              believe, as Diana does, that they
                              were together when he wrote them.
                              If the truth be known, Gail probably
                              typed them for Twit.

                              But, one thing is clear. These letters
                              were reedited. The proof is with the
                              1969 term "Mahanta." Look at everything
                              else written. It is impossible for Paul
                              to have used this term before 1969.

                              Prometheus

                              dianastanley43@...> wrote:
                              >
                              I don't know when Paul wrote the letters to Gail.
                              I always figured they lived togeather befor they
                              were married, Just my opinion.
                              Diana
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hello Etznab,
                              > > It doesn't matter what the date
                              > > was on the phony letter. It too is
                              > > phony. Diana said that Twit did
                              > > these letters "after" he and Gail
                              > > were married and they were married
                              > > in 1963. The key is the copyright
                              > > date in the book and I know it has
                              > > to be after Jan. 1, 1969 because
                              > > "Mahanta" wasn't mentioned until
                              > > then. Twitchell was a conman and
                              > > liar and did all sorts of reediting,
                              > > plagiarism, substitution, etc.
                              > >
                              > > etznab@ wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The following words
                              > > > appear on the first page (in italics):
                              > > >
                              > > > ECKANKAR
                              > > >
                              > > > ECK Master
                              > > >
                              > > > Rebazar Tarzs
                              > > >
                              > > > MAHANTA
                              > > >
                              > > > This was supposedly the year 1962! Do you think those words appeared in
                              > > > the original? Or did Gail and Darwin (somebody) do some editing?
                              > > >
                              > > > -----Original Message-----
                              > > > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@>
                              > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 1:36 pm
                              > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her Sunasu
                              > > >
                              > > >  
                              > > > Hello Diana,
                              > > > Thanks for enlightening us about
                              > > > "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                              > > > it was a little too preachy to be real.
                              > > >
                              > > > Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                              > > > beginnings of Eckankar when he
                              > > > needed to start selling himself to
                              > > > the public. By this time he and Gail
                              > > > had been married for at least two
                              > > > or three years. What's the copyright
                              > > > date on "Letters to Gail?"
                              > > >
                              > > > That's interesting that Gail had/has
                              > > > a twin sister. I wonder how much her
                              > > > twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                              > > > Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.
                              > > >
                              > > > Prometheus
                              > > >
                              > > > dianastanley wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                              > > > letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.
                              > > >
                              > > > He made them up so it seemed he
                              > > > was educating her so she knew what
                              > > > she got into when she married him.
                              > > >
                              > > > What a caring man to write that many
                              > > > letters to his future wife!!!
                              > > >
                              > > > Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
                              > > >
                              > > > Diana
                              > > >
                              > > I don't know when Paul wrote the letters to Gail. I always figured they lived togeather befor they were married,Just my opinion.
                              > Diana
                              >
                            • etznab@aol.com
                              Paul said so himself around 1969 that the term was new information , I believe. For reference, check out Chela Workshop - Los Angeles, CA - February 14th,
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 3, 2011
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                                Paul said so himself around 1969 that the term was "new information", I
                                believe.

                                For reference, check out Chela Workshop - Los Angeles, CA - February
                                14th, 1969: Audio cassette 48104 - side two - last five to ten minutes
                                of tape.

                                This is just one other reason I believe the term came out around 1969.
                                Not seven years earlier in 1962. Heck, Eckankar wasn't even officially
                                founded until 1965.

                                Etznab

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 9:39 pm
                                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to Gail and Her Sunasu

                                 
                                Hello Diana and Etznab,
                                Okay, I thought Diana said that
                                they were married at the time of
                                the letters. I think that Paul did
                                post dated them for the time
                                he was in California and Gail was
                                still in Seattle. Then, Paul claims
                                he sent for her or something like
                                that and they were married. I still
                                believe, as Diana does, that they
                                were together when he wrote them.
                                If the truth be known, Gail probably
                                typed them for Twit.

                                But, one thing is clear. These letters
                                were reedited. The proof is with the
                                1969 term "Mahanta." Look at everything
                                else written. It is impossible for Paul
                                to have used this term before 1969.

                                Prometheus

                                dianastanley43@...> wrote:
                                >
                                I don't know when Paul wrote the letters to Gail.
                                I always figured they lived togeather befor they
                                were married, Just my opinion.
                                Diana
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                                "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hello Etznab,
                                > > It doesn't matter what the date
                                > > was on the phony letter. It too is
                                > > phony. Diana said that Twit did
                                > > these letters "after" he and Gail
                                > > were married and they were married
                                > > in 1963. The key is the copyright
                                > > date in the book and I know it has
                                > > to be after Jan. 1, 1969 because
                                > > "Mahanta" wasn't mentioned until
                                > > then. Twitchell was a conman and
                                > > liar and did all sorts of reediting,
                                > > plagiarism, substitution, etc.
                                > >
                                > > etznab@ wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > The first letter is dated December 6th, 1962. The
                                following words
                                > > > appear on the first page (in italics):
                                > > >
                                > > > ECKANKAR
                                > > >
                                > > > ECK Master
                                > > >
                                > > > Rebazar Tarzs
                                > > >
                                > > > MAHANTA
                                > > >
                                > > > This was supposedly the year 1962! Do you think those
                                words appeared in
                                > > > the original? Or did Gail and Darwin (somebody) do some
                                editing?
                                > > >
                                > > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@>
                                > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > Sent: Mon, Jan 3, 2011 1:36 pm
                                > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Letters to
                                Gail and Her Sunasu
                                > > >
                                > > >  
                                > > > Hello Diana,
                                > > > Thanks for enlightening us about
                                > > > "Letters to Gail." I always thought
                                > > > it was a little too preachy to be real.
                                > > >
                                > > > Paul probably "wrote" them in the
                                > > > beginnings of Eckankar when he
                                > > > needed to start selling himself to
                                > > > the public. By this time he and Gail
                                > > > had been married for at least two
                                > > > or three years. What's the copyright
                                > > > date on "Letters to Gail?"
                                > > >
                                > > > That's interesting that Gail had/has
                                > > > a twin sister. I wonder how much her
                                > > > twin paid for Sunasu? I'm thinking that
                                > > > Sunasu Vitamins are still being sold.
                                > > >
                                > > > Prometheus
                                > > >
                                > > > dianastanley wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > The Letters to Gail. wer'nt really
                                > > > letters paul wrote and posted to Gail.
                                > > >
                                > > > He made them up so it seemed he
                                > > > was educating her so she knew what
                                > > > she got into when she married him.
                                > > >
                                > > > What a caring man to write that many
                                > > > letters to his future wife!!!
                                > > >
                                > > > Gail sold Sunasu to her twin sister.
                                > > >
                                > > > Diana
                                > > >
                                > > I don't know when Paul wrote the letters to Gail. I always
                                figured they lived togeather befor they were married,Just my opinion.
                                > Diana
                                >
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