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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The changes in Eckankar from the view point of an old timer

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  • etznab@aol.com
    Hope you didn t take that the wrong way. I was talking about a few different things in the same paragraph. I wasn t calling you ancient :) ... From:
    Message 1 of 91 , Jan 1, 2011
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      Hope you didn't take that the wrong way. I was talking about a few
      different things in the same paragraph. I wasn't calling you ancient :)

      -----Original Message-----
      From: dianastanley43 <dianastanley43@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, Dec 31, 2010 11:48 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The changes in Eckankar from
      the view point of an old timer

       
      ancient history

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > Thanks for sharing Diane. It's good to hear history from an eye
      > witness. Something not always the case. Especially with ancient
      history.
      >
      > Etznab
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: dianastanley43 <dianastanley43@...>
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Fri, Dec 31, 2010 11:34 am
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The changes in Eckankar
      from
      > the view point of an old timer
      >
      Now your making feel old!!!
      >  
      >
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@ wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Who's idea was it to create pictures of Rebazar Tarzs and
      others?
      > Can
      > > you elaborate some about this? Was it Paul who wanted this?
      Or
      > someone
      > > else?
      > >
      > > Were there sketches and drawings of Eck Masters before you
      did
      > yours?
      > > If so. How closely did (or did not) yours resemble them?
      > >
      > > Etznab
      >
      > I was the one who wanted to paint the pictures of the masters.
      Being an
      > artist, that was the way to express my love for these guys.
      >
      > Paul did commision me to do a Statue of him that they were going
      to
      > sell to the Eckist. I did one in clay and was going to cast it in
      > plaster and paint it. It was a great peice if i do say so my self.
      Paul
      > died befor he could see it. Some HI's saw it and every one was
      very
      > excited. The funny thing about this is this is the day after he
      died
      > the statue cracked and fell apart. Every one said Paul had
      destroyed it
      > when he left.
      > That made a good story even I believed it! Looking back and
      knowing
      > more about clay and mold making,The truth is that it was summer
      and
      > very hot the wet clay dryed too quickly and as a result cracked
      and
      > fell apart. That's the way ledgends are started!
      > To my knowlege there were no drawings of Eck Masters at that time.
      >
      > 1
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: dianastanley43 dianastanley43@
      > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Wed, Dec 29, 2010 11:12 pm
      > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] The changes in Eckankar
      from
      > the
      > > view point of an old timer
      > >
      > >  
      > > I started in Eckankar in 1971 when Paul was the Eckmaster. I
      have
      > to
      > > say in reading the posts after being out of it, I don'T
      rergonize
      > it as
      > > the same path!
      > > I was in Eckankar arount 12 yrs before I could nolonger
      excuse the
      > > abuses that were going on.
      > > I worked in the main headquarters in las Vegas and then we
      moved
      > to
      > > menlo park. I was the offical Eck Artist of the time. and
      knew all
      > the
      > > main players.
      > > I am not surprized at the Christian over tones I hear in Eck
      today.
      > > I knew Harold when he worked in the printing department. I
      liked
      > him,he
      > > was rather shy and serious but had a good sense of humor.
      Befor he
      > > became an Eckist he had wanted to be a minister in the church.
      > > I see he has realized his dream!
      > > When Paul first started Eckankar he did not want a tax free
      > excemption
      > > from the IRS becouse he did not want it to be concidered a
      > religion.
      > > when they began making big bucks he decided being a religon
      wasn't
      > such
      > > a bad idea!
      > > anyway if anyone has any questions about the old days let me
      know.
      > > I started in Eckankar when I was27 and now I am 67 so I think
      I
      > qualify
      > > as and old timer!
      > >
      >
    • dianastanley43
      Paul and Ron didn t start scientology togeather, they had a bet on whose path would be more succesful. It took Paul a little longer to get his act togeather
      Message 91 of 91 , Oct 20, 2011
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        Paul and Ron didn't start scientology togeather, they had a bet on whose path would be more succesful. It took Paul a little longer to get his act togeather
        Diana

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Etznab, Diane, and All,
        > > Well, since L. Ron started Scientology
        > > in 1952 and Twitchell started Eckankar
        > > in 1965 and was, basically, with Kirpal
        > > Singh from 1955-65 it's hard to imagine
        > > that Twit was a co-creator of Scientology
        > > with Hubbard back in 1952... three years
        > > before he was initiated by Kirpal in 1955.
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        >
        > Some years ago, I saw on an anti-Scientology website, something about Hubbard was told or given a note that Paul Twitchell was waiting to see him, and Hubbard replied - get rid of him. I can't be sure, but I'm 99% sure that there was a scanned copy of the piece of paper or old envelope Hubbard had written this on. Have tried to find it again, but good grief, a search even for very specific words turns up a million kazillion "wrong" results!! Arrrggghhh!!
        >
        > I've never seen it mentioned, but I think the years Twitch spent in England were actually spent working for Scientology, seems to me that altho Hubbard was often secretive about his location at any time, there's documentation that he was in England the same time Twitch was there.
        >
        > And Etznab - I haven't forgotten, really! I'll send you a scanned copy of that Scientology brochure where Twitch is listed on the cover as a "clear" or something, either a speaker or available for readings or whatever.
        >
        > > >
        > > > Diane Stanley wrote:
        > > >
        > > > What I heard was he [Paul Twitchell]
        > > and L.Ron Hubbard were friends and
        > > decided to create a spiritual path together,
        > > they could'nt agree on how to do it and
        > > had a falling out. Ron created Scientology
        > > and Paul, Eckankar. I don't know if that
        > > was true but possible they travled in the
        > > same circles."
        >
        > I've read the original Harlan Ellison interview where he mentions this, but I'm in a rush here so here's the Wikiquote version:
        >
        > "Scientology is bullshit! Man, I was there the night L. Ron Hubbard invented it, for Christ's sakes! ... We were sitting around one night... who else was there? Alfred Bester, and Cyril Kornbluth, and Lester del Rey, and Ron Hubbard, who was making a penny a word, and had been for years. And he said "This bullshit's got to stop!" He says, "I gotta get money." He says, "I want to get rich". And somebody said, "why don't you invent a new religion? They're always big." We were clowning! You know, "Become Elmer Gantry! You'll make a fortune!" He says, "I'm going to do it."
        > "The Real Harlan Ellison" in Wings (November-December 1978) p. 32"
        > (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Harlan_Ellison)
        >
        > I'm pretty sure that in the Ellison interview, he also said that Hubbard scrawled some notes on what would become Scientology...you know, in all fairness, let me see if I can find the Ellison interview. Ellison is *so* awesome, has been one of my favorite writers since the 60's. Okay, can't find the whole interview, but here's an interesting video interview:
        >
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9AGVARpqdk
        >
        > Good grief, totally forgot what I was doing, I've been repotting plants while waiting for pages to load....
        >
        > Later again....actually, got busy & totally forgot this, and now it's tomorrow morning!
        >
        > Diana, I was wondering when you heard about this, when you heard that Twitch & Hubbard were friends who'd started out together? Was that in later years, or back in the begining? If so, I can imagine that Hubbard's success with Scientology years before Twitch started ekult might've annoyed him a bit.
        >
        > Anyway, my mind's definitely elsewhere today, but Diana, I wanted to tell you I've enjoyed your posts - it's very interesting seeing people who were there back in the beginning, getting out and telling their stories. I'd love to see a complete memoir from you, something that could be saved & put on a website for posterity! Year ago I used to "compile" a lot of great posts from many people, planning to do something more with them in time so they wouldn't be lost forever in internet group archives....I'd still like to do that, actually.
        >
        > Okay, gotta go, have a great day, everyone!
        >
        > Hugs,
        >
        > Sharon
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > > >
        > > > Diane,
        > > >
        > > > Do you remember from where you heard
        > > that? Was it from the Internet? or from people
        > > around the time when you were in Eckankar?
        > > >
        > > dianastanley wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > etznab wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Diane,
        > > > > >
        > > > > > In this post you mentioned having lived with Helen Baird. Do you
        > > > > > remember if Helen considered herself an artist too? Or, if Helen was
        > > > > > doing art before she came to Eckankar? Something I read in the book
        > > > > > Paulji A Memoir (Copyright 1985, Patti Simpson) mentioned that Helen
        > > > > > (her own words) was an artist:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > "[....] I was an artist. I was making good money, read In My Soul I am
        > > > > > Free, and I said, 'That's it! That's where I'm going!' ...." (p. 268)
        > > > > >
        > > > > > It's good to take a look aback at these things. The time period before,
        > > > > > during and after the genesis of "Eck Masters" and where they came from
        > > > > > (the pictures, at least).
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I myself hadn't joined Eckankar until the later 1980's. And like so
        > > > > > many other people - both before and after me - I saw the pictures of
        > > > > > Eck Masters. They "took" life! And because it was something they all
        > > > > > supposedly had in common. They actually "lived" at one time - serving
        > > > > > as living masters
        > > > > > in a long lineage of Living Eck Masters.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > How true was (or is) that though? Really? Yes, I agree, anything can
        > > > > > take "life" after a person draws it, paints it for the first time. All
        > > > > > of the cartoon and fairy tale characters encountered in adolescence
        > > > > > have life too. Life given to them by the imagination of the viewers. Is
        > > > > > this what makes a living master though? Or a whole lineage of living
        > > > > > masters? (At this point it's an open question - for anybody wanting to
        > > > > > discuss it.)
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Right there is the thorn in Eckankar's side. IMO. Because Eckankar was
        > > > > > supposed to be different from other religions on account of a LIVING
        > > > > > master at all times. This master was supposed to have been part of a
        > > > > > lineage, and so one would think that consistency in the teachings (at
        > > > > > least the history part - especially the ancient history part) would be
        > > > > > apparent. On the other hand, if people are making these things up via
        > > > > > imagination, and imagination based on pseudo events, the result is most
        > > > > > likely going to confound. IMO. And so many people have left Eckankar on
        > > > > > account of having discovered the pseudo, or man-made elements that have
        > > > > > no correspondence with reality - wishing not to perpetuate the
        > > > > > storyline, or the experience, by teaching such things to others as if
        > > > > > they were true. (OK. I'm on a rant. But it's not directed at anybody
        > > > > > here personally. So, sorry it it seems that way.)
        > > > > >
        > > > > > In Eckankar today, the pictures of Eck Masters continue to some extent.
        > > > > > That old Rebazar Tarzs one of the most powerful among them. Darwin's
        > > > > > group had / have their pictures. And Dhunami has pictures of Eck
        > > > > > Masters too. They don't look the same as the ones by you, Diane, but
        > > > > > they are not that dissimilar either. (My guess is they had to make them
        > > > > > slightly different for copyright reasons.)
        > > > > >
        > > > > > It's really good to know who's idea that was to "make" Eck Masters in
        > > > > > the first place. Giving them human forms - in the way of drawings and
        > > > > > pictures - and to know who helped with this. Like where all the details
        > > > > > came from concerning what they looked like.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > You (Diana) mentioned that some of it came from Paul's descriptions in
        > > > > > books. So I'm curious, Is it possible Paul Twitchell simply made any of
        > > > > > those details up? Like the way a pulp fiction writer (which he was,
        > > > > > before Eckankar) might go about introducing one of their characters
        > > > > > into a story?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Twenty years after having joined Eckankar I am asking these questions.
        > > > > > Somebody tell me what is wrong with this picture.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Etznab
        > > > > >
        > > > > > P.S. What is wrong (perhaps) is that somebody - in Eckankar - should
        > > > > > have told (shared) the truth a long time ago about these LIVING masters
        > > > > > REALLY came from?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Helen was an Artist before Eck She did a lot of graphic art and illustrations,she was a good artist.
        > > > > Rebazar was a very important figure in Pauls writings,detailed descriptions of him and his personality,he was always a favorite for Eckist because Paul seemed to love him very much. He made him very real.
        > > > > In my opinion Paul created all the Masters out of whole cloth.
        > > > > Because I believed in him (Rebazar) when I did his portrait,It completed the picture of his reality.
        > > > > For me,when I left Eckankar,I had a hard time giving up Pauls teachings. I still wanted to believe it. For a while I thought there was nothing wrong with them It was just Darwin that had screwed it up and I knew Harold was'nt an Eck master because of why Darwin chose him.
        > > > > It took about two years to finally let go. I felt adrift for a long time. I knew Paul had at one time been a follower of Kirpal Signh so I investigated The Radha Saomi(thats spelled wrong) teachings(where Kirpal came from) I discovered much of Pauls teaching came from them plus a little christian and Si-Fi.
        > > > > It was not easy and very painful to admit to my self that Eckankar was the figment of a mans imagination. \
        > > > > I don't believe Paul ever realized it would become so big and accepted by so many as a true spiritual path.
        > > > > What I heard was he and L.Ron Hubbard were friends and decided to create a spiritual path togeather,they could'nt agree on how to do it and had a falling out. Ron created Scientolegy and Paul,Eckankar.
        > > > > I don't know if that was true but possible they travled in the same circles. I think Ron was smarter than Paul and a better writer. Scientolegy is still going strong with out having to deal with a master lienedge thing.
        > > > > Now I am rambling. Diana
        > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > > > From: dianastanley43 <dianastanley43@>
        > > > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > > Sent: Thu, Dec 30, 2010 10:24 pm
        > > > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: The changes in Eckankar from
        > > > > > the view point of an old timer
        > > > > >
        > > > > >  
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        > > > > > prometheus_973@ wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Hello Diana,
        > > > > > > Who did Paul find love with other than Gail?
        > > > > > > Was it Anitya Foos? Is it true that Gail was
        > > > > > > with Darwin in Oregon while Paul was dying
        > > > > > > in Cincinnati? I wonder how long Paul knew
        > > > > > > about their affair?
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Can you tell us about your painting where
        > > > > > > Darwin was passed the Rod of ECK Power
        > > > > > > by Paul with Rebazar standing near by?
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > That was what the painting depicted wasn't
        > > > > > > it?
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > The thing is, Paul had translated and was
        > > > > > > No Longer the "Living" ECK Master and,
        > > > > > > therefore, according to ECKankar dogma,
        > > > > > > Paul was no longer eligible to pass the
        > > > > > > Rod. It's only the LEM or the "torchbearer"
        > > > > > > (the fictitious Rebazar) who can pass it on.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Yes, Joan was Klemp's secretary for several
        > > > > > > years (prior to their marriage) and traveled
        > > > > > > with him to seminars. I remember seeing
        > > > > > > them together at the Golden Heart Campout
        > > > > > > back around the Summer of 1987.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I always thought it was strange that Marge
        > > > > > > still hung around doing her EK thing. She
        > > > > > > seems to have accepted Harold's disloyalty
        > > > > > > rather well. However, I'm certain that HK has
        > > > > > > made Joan a 9th initiate while Marge, I'm
        > > > > > > assuming, is still an 8th.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > What things did you see that "were terribly wrong?"
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I know that Darwin was a womanizer and a
        > > > > > > friend who worked at the ESC in Menlo Park
        > > > > > > told me how he would approach women staffers,
        > > > > > > but I have to take what she said with a grain
        > > > > > > of salt because she was somewhat nutty from
        > > > > > > too much EK brainwashing. She would tell me
        > > > > > > that he repeated things to her twice (versus
        > > > > > > 3 times) and that this was, thus, personalizing
        > > > > > > it rather than using a spiritual "Principle of
        > > > > > > the Threes approach.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > This same H.I. friend told me that the reason
        > > > > > > she came to reject Harold, and ECKankar,
        > > > > > > back around 1990, was due to her divorce.
        > > > > > > She married a RESA and HK had a pre-maritial
        > > > > > > meeting with them where he gave them and
        > > > > > > their marriage his "blessings." I think Marge
        > > > > > > officiated the wedding. Anyway, the marriage
        > > > > > > didn't work out and she blamed HK because
        > > > > > > his "Blessings" didn't work either. Thus, HK
        > > > > > > was/is a phony! She was very angry with him
        > > > > > > because Harold had told them that their
        > > > > > > marriage was karmically pre-destined. She
        > > > > > > was given the impression that this was a
        > > > > > > "good" thing.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > BTW- Were you still in touch with 8th initiate
        > > > > > > Millie Moore around the time of her death?
        > > > > > > I know that Millie was (still) smoking and Klemp
        > > > > > > was playing this down, although, people were
        > > > > > > reporting this back to him.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > It took me several years to, basically, get over
        > > > > > > the brainwashing of the EK teachings. It took
        > > > > > > longer to stop asking, looking to, or calling
        > > > > > > upon the "Mahanta." I never really saw this
        > > > > > > ideal Inner Master as being one and the same
        > > > > > > with Klemp. In truth, our own Inner master
        > > > > > > can be called mahanta or Soul, etc... It's each
        > > > > > > of us! Klemp is merely an impersonator!
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Prometheus
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Diana wrote:
        > > > > > > I have to clarify what I acually experienced in person and what I
        > > > > > heard from
        > > > > > > other people who I was very close to and believe to have told me
        > > > > > the truth. I
        > > > > > > only can say what I experienced from 1971 to around 1984. I
        > > > > > believe that in the
        > > > > > > begining, Gail really believed in Paul. After a short time most
        > > > > > likely saw the
        > > > > > > Game. I know paul kept her on a tight leash. Then they both found
        > > > > > love or lust
        > > > > > > in other places.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I am not aware of what pattie did on the board intirely(please
        > > > > > excuse the
        > > > > > > typos, I can't find my spell check and my finger nails are too
        > > > > > long!)
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I only am aware of Pattie in the time I was in Eck. I don"t have
        > > > > > any idea of
        > > > > > > what happened after I left.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I am not supprised about Joan. She married Harold. Much to her
        > > > > > husbands dismay.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I got over my anger and dispair a few years after a left Eck, it
        > > > > > took about four
        > > > > > > years.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I realized that I wanted Eckankar to be what Paul said it was, I
        > > > > > looked at
        > > > > > > everything through Eck colored glasses.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > When I was in Eck, even though I saw things that were terribly
        > > > > > wrong, I would
        > > > > > > justify it by thinking "you are not supposed to judge the Mahanta"
        > > > > > If you do it
        > > > > > > is the Kal making you do it. There must be some spiritual reason
        > > > > > for these
        > > > > > > things to be happening. (I quessed at the time).
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > As I look at it now it seems very simplisic and naieve but at the
        > > > > > time I was one
        > > > > > > of the chosen ones and I think loath to give up that speacialness!
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > prometheus wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Hello Diane,
        > > > > > > > Actually Patti didn't like the way Klemp
        > > > > > > > and the Board were treating Darwin. She
        > > > > > > > was appointed to be Board Secretary, but
        > > > > > > > resigned the very next day and was immediately
        > > > > > > > replaced with Joan. I think this was in October
        > > > > > > > of 1983.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Gail has always landed on her feet. After divorcing
        > > > > > > > darwin and leaving Eckankar she sold Paul's Copyrights
        > > > > > > > and materials for $500,000 and later married a wealthy
        > > > > > > > man moved to Palm Springs and then after he died she
        > > > > > > > married another wealthy man.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I like to know how she was when she was married to
        > > > > > > > Darwin because I know that she was as bad as Paul
        > > > > > > > since she helped him get the scam (Eckankar) off the
        > > > > > > > ground.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > BTW- Klemp has failed to mention Darwin's death
        > > > > > > > to the ECKankar membership... and yet, Darwin was
        > > > > > > > an EK Master (972) and passed the "Rod" to Klemp.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > So, why can't we discuss Gail since she's also to
        > > > > > > > blame and responsible for Paul's and her con that
        > > > > > > > Klemp inherited?
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Let's get the dirty laundry out there in the light of
        > > > > > > > day! When else are to to discuss Gail's involvement...
        > > > > > > > after she's dead and can't defend herself?
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > This site and most (as well as Fox News) are full of
        > > > > > > > opinion anyway so just make a mini-disclaimer with
        > > > > > > > "IMO."
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I find it interesting that Patti didn't like the way
        > > > > > > > Klemp's Board was treating Darwin and this caused
        > > > > > > > her to resign her newly elected position and, now,
        > > > > > > > years later she friends with several of Klemp's
        > > > > > > > Higher Initiates. Like I said, Klemp still has anger
        > > > > > > > and ego issues that he can't let go of or else he
        > > > > > > > would have mentioned Darwin's death. I can't
        > > > > > > > understand why this doesn't bother Patti because
        > > > > > > > her EK friends are loyal to Klemp the fake Mahanta.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > BTW- What did/do you think about the Virgin Birth
        > > > > > > > thing that Paul promoted for the Mahanta in the
        > > > > > > > 1st Shariyat? I'm amazed that Klemp didn't edit it
        > > > > > > > out!
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Prometheus
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Diane wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > When I knew Gail It seened she was pretty much under Pauls
        > > > > > thumb,she was young
        > > > > > > and he was had a very strong personality.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Her relationship with Darwin was the very Oppisite. I don't
        > > > > > mind discuing
        > > > > > > Darwin,as he is now dead. but I won"t discuss Gail as she is still
        > > > > > around. You
        > > > > > > have to remember these are only my imprssions and what I
        > > > > > experienced.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Patty was a very loyal Eckist and wanted Paul's work to
        > > > > > continure.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > She was on the board of Directors at the time of Darwins
        > > > > > breck down and
        > > > > > > instrumental in getting him kicked out of Eckankar.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Prometheus wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Hello Diane,
        > > > > > > > Please share some things about Gail
        > > > > > > > and Patti's character. I know that Gail
        > > > > > > > was Paul's cohort in the scam and I
        > > > > > > > also know that Patti knew what was
        > > > > > > > going on since she and Gail were like
        > > > > > > > sisters. Did they too enjoy the ego power
        > > > > > > > and see it all as a big joke being played
        > > > > > > > on needy fools with extra cash? Both
        > > > > > > > are supporting Doug Marman's books
        > > > > > > > about Paul, and Patti is still in touch
        > > > > > > > with many current long-time ECKists.
        > > > > > > > Patti may have been reinstated by
        > > > > > > > Klemp!
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Prometheus
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > dianastanley wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I started in Eckankar in 1971 when Paul was the Eckmaster. I
        > > > > > have to say in
        > > > > > > > reading the posts after being out of it, I don'T rergonize it
        > > > > > as the same
        > > > > > > path!
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I was in Eckankar arount 12 yrs before I could no longer
        > > > > > excuse the abuses
        > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > were going on.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I worked in the main headquarters in las Vegas and then we
        > > > > > moved to menlo
        > > > > > > park.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I was the offical Eck Artist of the time. and knew all the
        > > > > > main players.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I am not surprized at the Christian over tones I hear in Eck
        > > > > > today.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I knew Harold when he worked in the printing department. I
        > > > > > liked him, he was
        > > > > > > > rather shy and serious but had a good sense of humor. Befor
        > > > > > he became an
        > > > > > > Eckist
        > > > > > > > he had wanted to be a minister in the church.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I see he has realized his dream!
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > When Paul first started Eckankar he did not want a tax free
        > > > > > excemption from
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > IRS becouse he did not want it to be concidered a religion.
        > > > > > when they began
        > > > > > > > making big bucks he decided being a religon wasn't such a bad
        > > > > > idea!
        > > > > > > > anyway if anyone has any questions about the old days let me
        > > > > > know.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I started in Eckankar when I was 27 and now I am 67 so I
        > > > > > think I qualify as
        > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > old timer!
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >Your answer to the Gail and Darwin affairs is Yes. I asumed they
        > > > > > had an agreement,but that is only my asumption!
        > > > > > About the painting of the passing of the rod of power. When I painted
        > > > > > it I was not even a second initiate, I was living with Helen Baird, who
        > > > > > at the Time was a 5th also I was friends with Millie and yes I did talk
        > > > > > to her shortly before she died.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Anyway these higher initiates all told me what the passing was like,
        > > > > > when it would happen and I should meditate.
        > > > > > The Painting was a combination of what was told to me and my own
        > > > > > imagination also I have always had some ESP abilities so I'm sure I
        > > > > > picked up a lot of stray thoughts. So much for that.
        > > > > > I did hear that when Darwin fell from Grace Harold and others went into
        > > > > > the desert, Did somekind of ceremony and burned it then buried it! At
        > > > > > least it got a good funerel. The thing that mystifys me is if they went
        > > > > > to all that trouble,did they believe that it was what really happened
        > > > > > and like a sacred object that had been cursed it had to be ceremonally
        > > > > > destroyed? I kind of like that.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > By the way what is a RESA?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Darwin was Drunk a lot of the time so I am not surprized if he repeated
        > > > > > things. He also was on pain killers for his shoulder.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > To be honest I can't remember all the allful things that were wrong.
        > > > > > I know Harold wrote me a letter thanking me for not talking. We had
        > > > > > become pretty good friends before Darwin chose him to be the next Eck
        > > > > > Master. The thing was Darwin figured he could get the heat off,as he
        > > > > > had become too indiscreate in some of his activities,by having Harold
        > > > > > as Eck Master and Darwin could stay in the back ground as the Mahanta
        > > > > > and still have access to the Eckakar credit card.
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
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