Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: "thousand years"

Expand Messages
  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab, I d like to comment on some of your insights. Etznab: BTW, if Paul s was a five-year mission (1965-1970) and someone was to succeed him as
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 11, 2010
      Hello Etznab,
      I'd like to comment on some
      of your insights.

      Etznab:
      "BTW, if Paul's was a five-year mission
      (1965-1970) and someone was to succeed
      him as L.E.M. or as Mahanta, the L.E.M.
      in the future, IMO the writings would
      "HAVE TO SAY" five to a thousand years :)
      Not five hundred to a thousand years."


      ME: It doesn't really matter whether it was
      5 or 500 years does it? Plus, the person
      was to suceed him as the LEM and Not
      as the Mahanta (1969). Besides, HK edited
      the 500 years down to 5 years by claiming
      it was a typo error. Let's not lose focus
      or forget that the "Mahanta" position was
      invented, later, in January of 1969, and
      that Paul began to renege on his 5 year
      promise circa 1968, and that Twitchell
      was the "original" (and only) Mahanta.
      After all, PT planned to live well into his
      70's and retire after about 20 years as
      the Top God/Dog. PT had no prior clue
      about his impending heart attack, except,
      for claiming to be "poisoned" while in
      Spain. It was probably the food poisoning,
      and thisalong with his poor diet affected
      his ailing heart/health.

      The LEM/Mahanta combo was an edited
      version/title. If you look at the Eckankar
      Dictionary and Klemp's 1st Lexicon you
      will see that some ECK Masters are NOT
      listed as being Mahanta's while others are.
      Thus, not all of these titles (of these fictional
      characters) were reedited or else it would
      say that they were all LEM/Mahantas. The
      Living ECK Master title wasn't used for a
      number of years. If you have a copy of PT's
      "The Wisdom Notes, January 1968-October
      1971" you will see that Twit didn't use this
      "living ECK Master" title until the November
      1, 1968 Monthly Wisdom Notes. And, "living"
      was not capitalized.

      Also, "living" still wasn't being capitalized
      in the August 1, 1971 "The Wisdom Notes."

      FYI-The first time that both titles were
      used together is found in the February
      1, 1970 Wisdom Notes: "MAHANTA - the
      living ECK Master."

      I have no idea when the titles first started
      to be used as "LEM/Mahanta." Either Darwin
      or Klemp started to use it this way.

      btw- Here's a quote from the May 1, 1969
      Wisdom Notes:

      "I have always followed the line of ECK
      Masters who have given the title of the
      Mahanta to whoever receives the rod of
      ECK power as the living ECK Master, in
      each age. We have never been without
      an ECK Master in this world since the
      beginning of time."


      Etznab:

      "Adding more ...

      Paul Twitchell & Eckankar appear to have
      it that he (Paul Twitchell) was already
      initiated by Sudat Singh & Rebazar Tarzs
      by 1963. So how could he not know who was
      the true master? Something doesn't appear
      to fit."


      ME: True. The time lines are off as well
      since PT, supposedly, traveled to India
      for the second time, in the early '50s,
      to get his 12th initiation from Rebazar.
      Strange that Twit claimed that the LEM
      was also the Mahanta but never mentioned
      the "Mahanta" title and this 14th level
      of initiation, and the "inner" responsibilities,
      until Jan. 1, 1969!


      Etznab:
      "Paul had moved from group to group before
      1963. When in Ruhani Satsang he called it
      that, not Eckankar (In spite of what In My
      Soul I Am Free says today. And later on in
      1963 he took Gail to be initiated by Kirpal
      Singh!

      All of this gives me the impression much
      of the Eckankar dogma and modern terms
      did not get added until after 1964-1965.
      Along with the names of Eck Masters.

      It would be nice to have the original source
      manuscripts of Eckankar books written prior
      to 1964-1965. Those "source manuscripts"
      that Harold said he knew somebody would
      have to do something about them some day.
      That he knows who that someone is."


      ME: These "source" manuscripts are probably
      typed pages that have notations scribbled
      in the margins with words crossed out and
      added etc. Look at how Twit edited "The Tiger's
      Fang" by substituting his Master of Ruhani
      Satsang, Kirpal Singh, and replacing his name
      with the fictional Rebazar Tarzs.. BTW- The
      pedophile Joseph Smith took hours editing
      and rewriting what "God" supposedly told him
      about polygamy. Why the need for a rewrite
      when it, supposedly, came from God unless
      it wasn't true to begin with!

      Prometheus

      etznab wrote:

      This is a partial repost from A.R.E.
      posted today. It is partial because
      I'm going to add to it some here.

      Mentioned in Letters to Gail Vol. II, p. 103
      (4th Printing 1986).

      Mentioned in Letters to Gail Vol. II, p. 156
      (4th Printing 1986).

      Mentioned in Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, p. 246
      (Second Edition 1988).

      Other Eckankar references:

      (1)

      "A very curious comment was included toward
      the back of the original version of The Shariyat-
      Ki-Sugmad, Book Two. It said the Mahanta re-
      appears to renew and wage battle against the
      Kal and to lead Soul out of the lower worlds,
      and this occurs every five to a thousand years.
      This was very heartening to me because it meant
      that in my lifetime, I too would have the opportunity
      to reach this step of Mastership." (H.K. - 1984?)

      http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

      (2)

      "[....] In this connection, The Shariyat says
      that only one Mahanta, the Living ECK Master
      appears every five to a thousand years. This is
      a metaphor. It simply means that a new one
      may come almost immediately or not for a long
      time.
      "The image is of the phoenix, a mythical
      Arabian bird. There was only one of its kind.
      After five hundred to fifteen hundred years or
      so, it consumed itself by fire, only to rise again
      to begin a new cycle.
      "In a similar way, each new Mahanta, the
      Living ECK Master comes to bring a new level
      of spiritual awareness."

      [Based on: Ask The Master / The Living ECK
      Master Answers Your Questions, by Harold
      Klemp, Book 1, How to accept God's love in
      your life, Copyright 1993, pp. 188 - 189]

      *************************************************

      Haven't spent a lot of time on this. Page 103
      of LTG Vol. 2 mentions "... the theory that ... ."

      Page 156 of LTG 2 read (IMO) like a statement
      and not a theory.

      In Harold Klemps 1993 book he mentions the
      word metaphor.

      *************************************************

      Mentions from other sources about "thousand
      years":

      (1)

      "Bahá'u'lláh mentioned in the Kitáb-i-Íqán that
      God will renew the "City of God" about every
      thousand years,[6] and specifically mentioned
      that a new Manifestation of God would not
      appear within 1000 years of Bahá'u'lláh's
      message.[7][8]"

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_revelation_%28Bah%C3%A1%27%C...

      (2)

      "Admirers of the Shaykh make no secret that
      they consider him to be a mujaddid, a personality
      who appears every thousand years or so to bring
      Islam back to its true bearings."

      http://higher-criticism.com/2009/05/review-of-wahhabi-islam-natana-de...

      (3)

      20:2. AND HE LAID HOLD ON (or seized) THE
      DRAGON, THAT OLD (or ancient) SERPENT,
      WHICH IS THE DEVIL, AND SATAN, AND BOUND
      (or chained) HIM (up) A THOUSAND YEARS. A, M.
      - Revelation 20:2

      *************************************************

      After mentioning several Eck Masters, the Eckankar
      Letters to Gail series - letter from July 1963 includes:

      "[....] I don't know who is the present true master here
      now, nor do I know who was the past. [....]"

      Chapter five (Gakko, the World of Being), second para-
      graph of Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad includes:

      "[....] These beings are the Adepts of the Vairagi,
      known in the works of ECKANKAR as the ECK
      Masters. These are the true spiritual Masters, and
      none other exist. [....]"

      Again - in July 1963 (after having already mentioned a
      slew of Eck Masters in previous letters) Paul Twitchell
      has:

      "[....] I don't know who is the present true master here
      now, nor do I know who was the past. [....]"

      Something about this looks very curious to me. These
      Letters to Gail were written before the founding of Eck-
      ankar in October 1965.

      OK. All the time I have for this right now.

      Etznab

      BTW, if Paul's was a five-year mission (1965-1970)
      and someone was to succeed him as L.E.M. or as
      Mahanta, the L.E.M. in the future, IMO the writings
      would "HAVE TO SAY" five to a thousand years :)
      Not five hundred to a thousand years.

      Adding more ...

      Paul Twitchell & Eckankar appear to have
      it that he (Paul Twitchell) was already
      initiated by Sudat Singh & Rebazar Tarzs
      by 1963. So how could he not know who was
      the true master? Something doesn't appear
      to fit.

      Paul had moved from group to group before
      1963. When in Ruhani Satsang he called it
      that, not Eckankar (In spite of what In My
      Soul I Am Free says today. And later on in
      1963 he took Gail to be initiated by Kirpal
      Singh!

      All of this gives me the impression much
      of the Eckankar dogma and modern terms did
      not get added until after 1964-1965. Along
      with the names of Eck Masters.

      It would be nice to have the original source
      manuscripts of Eckankar books written prior
      to 1964-1965. Those "source manuscripts" that
      Harold said he knew somebody would have to do
      something about them some day. That he knows
      who that someone is.

      Etznab
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.