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"thousand years"

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  • etznab18
    This is a partial repost from A.R.E. posted today. It is partial because I m going to add to it some here. Mentioned in Letters to Gail Vol. II, p. 103 (4th
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 10, 2010
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      This is a partial repost from A.R.E.
      posted today. It is partial because
      I'm going to add to it some here.

      Mentioned in Letters to Gail Vol. II, p. 103
      (4th Printing 1986).

      Mentioned in Letters to Gail Vol. II, p. 156
      (4th Printing 1986).

      Mentioned in Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, p. 246
      (Second Edition 1988).

      Other Eckankar references:

      (1)

      "A very curious comment was included toward
      the back of the original version of The Shariyat-
      Ki-Sugmad, Book Two. It said the Mahanta re-
      appears to renew and wage battle against the
      Kal and to lead Soul out of the lower worlds,
      and this occurs every five to a thousand years.
      This was very heartening to me because it meant
      that in my lifetime, I too would have the opportunity
      to reach this step of Mastership." (H.K. - 1984?)

      http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

      (2)

      "[....] In this connection, The Shariyat says
      that only one Mahanta, the Living ECK Master
      appears every five to a thousand years. This is
      a metaphor. It simply means that a new one
      may come almost immediately or not for a long
      time.
      "The image is of the phoenix, a mythical
      Arabian bird. There was only one of its kind.
      After five hundred to fifteen hundred years or
      so, it consumed itself by fire, only to rise again
      to begin a new cycle.
      "In a similar way, each new Mahanta, the
      Living ECK Master comes to bring a new level
      of spiritual awareness."

      [Based on: Ask The Master / The Living ECK
      Master Answers Your Questions, by Harold
      Klemp, Book 1, How to accept God's love in
      your life, Copyright 1993, pp. 188 - 189]

      *************************************************

      Haven't spent a lot of time on this. Page 103
      of LTG Vol. 2 mentions "... the theory that ... ."

      Page 156 of LTG 2 read (IMO) like a statement
      and not a theory.

      In Harold Klemps 1993 book he mentions the
      word metaphor.

      *************************************************

      Mentions from other sources about "thousand
      years":

      (1)

      "Bahá'u'lláh mentioned in the Kitáb-i-Íqán that
      God will renew the "City of God" about every
      thousand years,[6] and specifically mentioned
      that a new Manifestation of God would not
      appear within 1000 years of Bahá'u'lláh's
      message.[7][8]"

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_revelation_%28Bah%C3%A1%27%C...

      (2)

      "Admirers of the Shaykh make no secret that
      they consider him to be a mujaddid, a personality
      who appears every thousand years or so to bring
      Islam back to its true bearings."

      http://higher-criticism.com/2009/05/review-of-wahhabi-islam-natana-de...

      (3)

      20:2. AND HE LAID HOLD ON (or seized) THE
      DRAGON, THAT OLD (or ancient) SERPENT,
      WHICH IS THE DEVIL, AND SATAN, AND BOUND
      (or chained) HIM (up) A THOUSAND YEARS. A, M.
      - Revelation 20:2

      *************************************************

      After mentioning several Eck Masters, the Eckankar
      Letters to Gail series - letter from July 1963 includes:

      "[....] I don't know who is the present true master here
      now, nor do I know who was the past. [....]"

      Chapter five (Gakko, the World of Being), second para-
      graph of Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad includes:

      "[....] These beings are the Adepts of the Vairagi,
      known in the works of ECKANKAR as the ECK
      Masters. These are the true spiritual Masters, and
      none other exist. [....]"

      Again - in July 1963 (after having already mentioned a
      slew of Eck Masters in previous letters) Paul Twitchell
      has:

      "[....] I don't know who is the present true master here
      now, nor do I know who was the past. [....]"

      Something about this looks very curious to me. These
      Letters to Gail were written before the founding of Eck-
      ankar in October 1965.

      OK. All the time I have for this right now.

      Etznab

      BTW, if Paul's was a five-year mission (1965-1970)
      and someone was to succeed him as L.E.M. or as
      Mahanta, the L.E.M. in the future, IMO the writings
      would "HAVE TO SAY" five to a thousand years :)
      Not five hundred to a thousand years.

      Adding more ...

      Paul Twitchell & Eckankar appear to have
      it that he (Paul Twitchell) was already
      initiated by Sudat Singh & Rebazar Tarzs
      by 1963. So how could he not know who was
      the true master? Something doesn't appear
      to fit.

      Paul had moved from group to group before
      1963. When in Ruhani Satsang he called it
      that, not Eckankar (In spite of what In My
      Soul I Am Free says today. And later on in
      1963 he took Gail to be initiated by Kirpal
      Singh!

      All of this gives me the impression much
      of the Eckankar dogma and modern terms did
      not get added until after 1964-1965. Along
      with the names of Eck Masters.

      It would be nice to have the original source
      manuscripts of Eckankar books written prior
      to 1964-1965. Those "source manuscripts" that
      Harold said he knew somebody would have to do
      something about them some day. That he knows
      who that someone is.

      Etznab
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Etznab, I d like to comment on some of your insights. Etznab: BTW, if Paul s was a five-year mission (1965-1970) and someone was to succeed him as
      Message 2 of 2 , Nov 11, 2010
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        Hello Etznab,
        I'd like to comment on some
        of your insights.

        Etznab:
        "BTW, if Paul's was a five-year mission
        (1965-1970) and someone was to succeed
        him as L.E.M. or as Mahanta, the L.E.M.
        in the future, IMO the writings would
        "HAVE TO SAY" five to a thousand years :)
        Not five hundred to a thousand years."


        ME: It doesn't really matter whether it was
        5 or 500 years does it? Plus, the person
        was to suceed him as the LEM and Not
        as the Mahanta (1969). Besides, HK edited
        the 500 years down to 5 years by claiming
        it was a typo error. Let's not lose focus
        or forget that the "Mahanta" position was
        invented, later, in January of 1969, and
        that Paul began to renege on his 5 year
        promise circa 1968, and that Twitchell
        was the "original" (and only) Mahanta.
        After all, PT planned to live well into his
        70's and retire after about 20 years as
        the Top God/Dog. PT had no prior clue
        about his impending heart attack, except,
        for claiming to be "poisoned" while in
        Spain. It was probably the food poisoning,
        and thisalong with his poor diet affected
        his ailing heart/health.

        The LEM/Mahanta combo was an edited
        version/title. If you look at the Eckankar
        Dictionary and Klemp's 1st Lexicon you
        will see that some ECK Masters are NOT
        listed as being Mahanta's while others are.
        Thus, not all of these titles (of these fictional
        characters) were reedited or else it would
        say that they were all LEM/Mahantas. The
        Living ECK Master title wasn't used for a
        number of years. If you have a copy of PT's
        "The Wisdom Notes, January 1968-October
        1971" you will see that Twit didn't use this
        "living ECK Master" title until the November
        1, 1968 Monthly Wisdom Notes. And, "living"
        was not capitalized.

        Also, "living" still wasn't being capitalized
        in the August 1, 1971 "The Wisdom Notes."

        FYI-The first time that both titles were
        used together is found in the February
        1, 1970 Wisdom Notes: "MAHANTA - the
        living ECK Master."

        I have no idea when the titles first started
        to be used as "LEM/Mahanta." Either Darwin
        or Klemp started to use it this way.

        btw- Here's a quote from the May 1, 1969
        Wisdom Notes:

        "I have always followed the line of ECK
        Masters who have given the title of the
        Mahanta to whoever receives the rod of
        ECK power as the living ECK Master, in
        each age. We have never been without
        an ECK Master in this world since the
        beginning of time."


        Etznab:

        "Adding more ...

        Paul Twitchell & Eckankar appear to have
        it that he (Paul Twitchell) was already
        initiated by Sudat Singh & Rebazar Tarzs
        by 1963. So how could he not know who was
        the true master? Something doesn't appear
        to fit."


        ME: True. The time lines are off as well
        since PT, supposedly, traveled to India
        for the second time, in the early '50s,
        to get his 12th initiation from Rebazar.
        Strange that Twit claimed that the LEM
        was also the Mahanta but never mentioned
        the "Mahanta" title and this 14th level
        of initiation, and the "inner" responsibilities,
        until Jan. 1, 1969!


        Etznab:
        "Paul had moved from group to group before
        1963. When in Ruhani Satsang he called it
        that, not Eckankar (In spite of what In My
        Soul I Am Free says today. And later on in
        1963 he took Gail to be initiated by Kirpal
        Singh!

        All of this gives me the impression much
        of the Eckankar dogma and modern terms
        did not get added until after 1964-1965.
        Along with the names of Eck Masters.

        It would be nice to have the original source
        manuscripts of Eckankar books written prior
        to 1964-1965. Those "source manuscripts"
        that Harold said he knew somebody would
        have to do something about them some day.
        That he knows who that someone is."


        ME: These "source" manuscripts are probably
        typed pages that have notations scribbled
        in the margins with words crossed out and
        added etc. Look at how Twit edited "The Tiger's
        Fang" by substituting his Master of Ruhani
        Satsang, Kirpal Singh, and replacing his name
        with the fictional Rebazar Tarzs.. BTW- The
        pedophile Joseph Smith took hours editing
        and rewriting what "God" supposedly told him
        about polygamy. Why the need for a rewrite
        when it, supposedly, came from God unless
        it wasn't true to begin with!

        Prometheus

        etznab wrote:

        This is a partial repost from A.R.E.
        posted today. It is partial because
        I'm going to add to it some here.

        Mentioned in Letters to Gail Vol. II, p. 103
        (4th Printing 1986).

        Mentioned in Letters to Gail Vol. II, p. 156
        (4th Printing 1986).

        Mentioned in Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, p. 246
        (Second Edition 1988).

        Other Eckankar references:

        (1)

        "A very curious comment was included toward
        the back of the original version of The Shariyat-
        Ki-Sugmad, Book Two. It said the Mahanta re-
        appears to renew and wage battle against the
        Kal and to lead Soul out of the lower worlds,
        and this occurs every five to a thousand years.
        This was very heartening to me because it meant
        that in my lifetime, I too would have the opportunity
        to reach this step of Mastership." (H.K. - 1984?)

        http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

        (2)

        "[....] In this connection, The Shariyat says
        that only one Mahanta, the Living ECK Master
        appears every five to a thousand years. This is
        a metaphor. It simply means that a new one
        may come almost immediately or not for a long
        time.
        "The image is of the phoenix, a mythical
        Arabian bird. There was only one of its kind.
        After five hundred to fifteen hundred years or
        so, it consumed itself by fire, only to rise again
        to begin a new cycle.
        "In a similar way, each new Mahanta, the
        Living ECK Master comes to bring a new level
        of spiritual awareness."

        [Based on: Ask The Master / The Living ECK
        Master Answers Your Questions, by Harold
        Klemp, Book 1, How to accept God's love in
        your life, Copyright 1993, pp. 188 - 189]

        *************************************************

        Haven't spent a lot of time on this. Page 103
        of LTG Vol. 2 mentions "... the theory that ... ."

        Page 156 of LTG 2 read (IMO) like a statement
        and not a theory.

        In Harold Klemps 1993 book he mentions the
        word metaphor.

        *************************************************

        Mentions from other sources about "thousand
        years":

        (1)

        "Bahá'u'lláh mentioned in the Kitáb-i-Íqán that
        God will renew the "City of God" about every
        thousand years,[6] and specifically mentioned
        that a new Manifestation of God would not
        appear within 1000 years of Bahá'u'lláh's
        message.[7][8]"

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_revelation_%28Bah%C3%A1%27%C...

        (2)

        "Admirers of the Shaykh make no secret that
        they consider him to be a mujaddid, a personality
        who appears every thousand years or so to bring
        Islam back to its true bearings."

        http://higher-criticism.com/2009/05/review-of-wahhabi-islam-natana-de...

        (3)

        20:2. AND HE LAID HOLD ON (or seized) THE
        DRAGON, THAT OLD (or ancient) SERPENT,
        WHICH IS THE DEVIL, AND SATAN, AND BOUND
        (or chained) HIM (up) A THOUSAND YEARS. A, M.
        - Revelation 20:2

        *************************************************

        After mentioning several Eck Masters, the Eckankar
        Letters to Gail series - letter from July 1963 includes:

        "[....] I don't know who is the present true master here
        now, nor do I know who was the past. [....]"

        Chapter five (Gakko, the World of Being), second para-
        graph of Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad includes:

        "[....] These beings are the Adepts of the Vairagi,
        known in the works of ECKANKAR as the ECK
        Masters. These are the true spiritual Masters, and
        none other exist. [....]"

        Again - in July 1963 (after having already mentioned a
        slew of Eck Masters in previous letters) Paul Twitchell
        has:

        "[....] I don't know who is the present true master here
        now, nor do I know who was the past. [....]"

        Something about this looks very curious to me. These
        Letters to Gail were written before the founding of Eck-
        ankar in October 1965.

        OK. All the time I have for this right now.

        Etznab

        BTW, if Paul's was a five-year mission (1965-1970)
        and someone was to succeed him as L.E.M. or as
        Mahanta, the L.E.M. in the future, IMO the writings
        would "HAVE TO SAY" five to a thousand years :)
        Not five hundred to a thousand years.

        Adding more ...

        Paul Twitchell & Eckankar appear to have
        it that he (Paul Twitchell) was already
        initiated by Sudat Singh & Rebazar Tarzs
        by 1963. So how could he not know who was
        the true master? Something doesn't appear
        to fit.

        Paul had moved from group to group before
        1963. When in Ruhani Satsang he called it
        that, not Eckankar (In spite of what In My
        Soul I Am Free says today. And later on in
        1963 he took Gail to be initiated by Kirpal
        Singh!

        All of this gives me the impression much
        of the Eckankar dogma and modern terms did
        not get added until after 1964-1965. Along
        with the names of Eck Masters.

        It would be nice to have the original source
        manuscripts of Eckankar books written prior
        to 1964-1965. Those "source manuscripts" that
        Harold said he knew somebody would have to do
        something about them some day. That he knows
        who that someone is.

        Etznab
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