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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] "I Am Always With You" - The Real Meaning

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  • Drew van Rijk
    I think the real meaning of I Am Always With You could also be My Hand Is Always in Your Pocket  lol  which is why Twitch created eckankar in the first
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 2, 2010
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      I think the real meaning of " I Am Always With You" could also be "My Hand Is Always in Your Pocket"  lol  which is why Twitch created eckankar in the first place.....

      --- On Mon, 11/1/10, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] "I Am Always With You" - The Real Meaning
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Received: Monday, November 1, 2010, 10:35 PM

       

      ECKists have replaced one "God" for another.
      Sure, they call "Him" by a different name but
      in essence it's merely a revised substitution.

      In ECKankar the members see themselves
      "as" Soul versus having "a" Soul. There's
      no separate identity between human and
      divine. According to ECKankar, you (we)
      are Soul and are a part of the Divine, but
      are living in a physical shell (body). And,
      there are other "bodies" that also "protect"
      Soul from the coarse "vibrations" of the
      "Lower" Planes. Therefore, everyone's true
      identity is that of Being... a Divine Soul.
      It just "IS." Personally, I think that much
      of this needed "protection" for Soul is B.S.,
      and Soul is not affected by "lower" vibrations.
      It's a myth!

      Klemp likes to say, "I Am Always With You"
      when he signs off.

      But what does this really mean? Eckists seem
      to have an identity crisis since they are constantly
      being separated from their identity as Soul
      via Klemp's dogma involving his rank above
      them and all other Souls.

      Soul is a Divine part of the "ECK" as is the
      Mahanta... there is actually no difference.
      And, according to EK Teachings Soul equals
      Soul. This means that Klemp is No Higher or
      more valued than any other Soul. But, is this
      the case? Not quite. With Klemp it's an Ego
      thing and he needs to be the Top Dog on both
      the outer and inner. Twitchell started this myth.
      In reality, on the "inner," HK's equal to all
      other Souls, and he hates this truth. This isn't
      the reality with how PT created the ECK teachings
      and how they are practiced. Being a LEM/Mahanta
      is a flawed concept because Twitchell needed
      to be the Top Dog as Klemp does. Basically, it's
      a Bait and Switch!

      All Souls are Always With one another. Right?
      I really don't buy the "plane" thing with the
      numbers and the judgment and the homework
      and the tests and of separating Soul in classes
      like wheat from the chaff etc. It doesn't make
      sense in this day and age. When EKies speak
      about "the Sugmad Worlds," or whatever, why
      do they accept old hearsay versions from invisible/
      living Masters who are hundreds and thousands
      of years old. It's immature mental plane fantasy!

      Each Soul is as much of the "I AM" as any other
      Soul. In actuality, there are No initiations and
      rankings in the God Worlds. Really, how can it
      be? Initiations can't exist and neither can gender!
      If anything, there should only be 4 initiations.
      Therefore there are no male or female ECK Masters
      nor images i.e. drawings/photos. Every Soul
      is a Master. Its human counterpart needs
      to recognize this and and live it.

      BTW, Women are the equals of Men and should
      be treated as such, and Soul is the equal to
      every other Soul and should be treated as such.

      Limitations are both recognized and created
      by the finite mind for/by itself, naturally. Even
      the imagination has limitations. It's really too
      bad when I hear and see longtime H.I.s parrot
      the, "I Am Always With You" idiom. They must
      be tired of thinking and, therefore, just repeat
      the old words and phrases that have stuck in
      their memories.

      Sure, it's kind of touchy and feely and sounds
      like a mystical and/or religious promise of
      sorts. I guess it's supposed to reenforce hope
      and the belief that the "Mahanta" (God) is always
      there standing in the wings and looking after
      you. It doesn't happen of course but it feels
      good to think that someone cares and has your
      back just in case the worst happens (as it
      eventually will). Those imaginative EK heavens
      are awaiting and that feels good. That's why
      religions work so well and are so popular with
      people. But, that's part of the problem too.

      BTW, why aren't H.I.s "Always With You?"
      According to Klemp in his "Autobiography"
      (pg. 385) "God" is of the 4th Mental Plane
      but does all kinds of Miracles, etc. H.I.s are
      "Higher" than this "God" so why can't these
      H.I.s "Always Be With You" or "With" one
      another? A lie is not a paradox! ECK "stories"
      are mental plane experiences coming from
      this same 4th plane "God" (Kal) source.

      Soul equals Soul means that we are all the
      same and, yet, unique. Klemp has stolen
      Soul's equality, identity, and uniqueness
      and ECKists haven't noticed. I pity them
      with their delusions, but then again, I can
      understand why many have found solace
      in religion and on running on auto pilot.
      I just can't understand why those H.I.s
      who appear to have more going for them,
      or seem to be stronger and more astute
      continue to play Klemp's game and live
      their lives under his shadow with so many
      "spiritual" restraints and delusions. Maybe
      for many of those working at the ESC it's
      simply job security to play the game.
      That's what Klemp did with Darwin.

      Prometheus


    • prometheus_973
      Hello Drew, So true! Twit was encouraged by Gail to do something with the material he had gathered and edited. He then started to give lectures and do
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 2, 2010
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        Hello Drew,
        So true! Twit was encouraged by Gail
        to do something with the material
        he had gathered and edited.

        He then started to give lectures and
        do self-promotions by giving interviews
        and talks (intros), and began writing
        discourses and the monthly Wisdom
        Notes. When he started to make some
        money is when he created the Mahanta
        title (1969). Then the books started to
        come out and the money rolled in.

        Klemp has done the same with his
        books, CDs. tapes, pics, etc. except
        these are even more worthless than
        Twitchell's fiction. HK could never
        write a Shariyat or finish the 12 book
        series, but that doesn't, apparently,
        seem to bother Klemp's followers
        since the money is still rolling in.
        From the look of HK's tan at this
        past 2010 EK Worldwide it looks
        like he's been vacationing in the
        islands... where he probably has
        a second home.


        Drew wrote:

        I think the real meaning of " I Am Always With You"
        could also be "My Hand Is Always in Your Pocket" lol
        which is why Twitch created eckankar in the first place.....

        Prometheus wrote:

        >ECKists have replaced one "God" for another.
        >
        > Sure, they call "Him" by a different name but
        >
        > in essence it's merely a revised substitution.
        >
        >
        >
        > In ECKankar the members see themselves
        >
        > "as" Soul versus having "a" Soul. There's
        >
        > no separate identity between human and
        >
        > divine. According to ECKankar, you (we)
        >
        > are Soul and are a part of the Divine, but
        >
        > are living in a physical shell (body). And,
        >
        > there are other "bodies" that also "protect"
        >
        > Soul from the coarse "vibrations" of the
        >
        > "Lower" Planes. Therefore, everyone's true
        >
        > identity is that of Being... a Divine Soul.
        >
        > It just "IS." Personally, I think that much
        >
        > of this needed "protection" for Soul is B.S.,
        >
        > and Soul is not affected by "lower" vibrations.
        >
        > It's a myth!
        >
        >
        >
        > Klemp likes to say, "I Am Always With You"
        >
        > when he signs off.
        >
        >
        >
        > But what does this really mean? Eckists seem
        >
        > to have an identity crisis since they are constantly
        >
        > being separated from their identity as Soul
        >
        > via Klemp's dogma involving his rank above
        >
        > them and all other Souls.
        >
        >
        >
        > Soul is a Divine part of the "ECK" as is the
        >
        > Mahanta... there is actually no difference.
        >
        > And, according to EK Teachings Soul equals
        >
        > Soul. This means that Klemp is No Higher or
        >
        > more valued than any other Soul. But, is this
        >
        > the case? Not quite. With Klemp it's an Ego
        >
        > thing and he needs to be the Top Dog on both
        >
        > the outer and inner. Twitchell started this myth.
        >
        > In reality, on the "inner," HK's equal to all
        >
        > other Souls, and he hates this truth. Souls started
        >
        > out being equal until PT switched it around with
        >
        > the "Mahanta" concept in 1969. Being both a LEM
        >
        > and a Mahanta is a flawed concept but Twitchell
        >
        > needed to be the Top Dog as Klemp does. Basically,
        >
        > it's a Bait and Switch!
        >
        >
        >
        > All Souls are Always With one another. Right?
        >
        > I really don't buy the "plane" thing with the
        >
        > numbers and the judgment and the homework
        >
        > and the tests and of separating Soul in classes
        >
        > like wheat from the chaff etc. It doesn't make
        >
        > sense in this day and age. When EKies speak
        >
        > about "the Sugmad Worlds," or whatever, why
        >
        > do they accept old hearsay versions from invisible/
        >
        > living Masters who are hundreds and thousands
        >
        > of years old. It's immature mental plane fantasy!
        >
        >
        >
        > Each Soul is as much of the "I AM" as any other
        >
        > Soul. In actuality, there are No initiations and
        >
        > rankings in the God Worlds. Really, how can it
        >
        > be? Initiations can't exist and neither can gender!
        >
        > If anything, there should only be 4 initiations.
        >
        > Therefore there are no male or female ECK Masters
        >
        > nor images i.e. drawings/photos. Every Soul
        >
        > is a Master. Its human counterpart needs
        >
        > to recognize this and and live it.
        >
        >
        >
        > BTW, Women are the equals of Men and should
        >
        > be treated as such, and Soul is the equal to
        >
        > every other Soul and should be treated as such.
        >
        >
        >
        > Limitations are both recognized and created
        >
        > by the finite mind for/by itself, naturally. Even
        >
        > the imagination has limitations. It's really too
        >
        > bad when I hear and see longtime H.I.s parrot
        >
        > the, "I Am Always With You" idiom. They must
        >
        > be tired of thinking and, therefore, just repeat
        >
        > the old words and phrases that have stuck in
        >
        > their memories.
        >
        >
        >
        > Sure, it's kind of touchy and feely and sounds
        >
        > like a mystical and/or religious promise of
        >
        > sorts. I guess it's supposed to reenforce hope
        >
        > and the belief that the "Mahanta" (God) is always
        >
        > there standing in the wings and looking after
        >
        > you. It doesn't happen of course but it feels
        >
        > good to think that someone cares and has your
        >
        > back just in case the worst happens (as it
        >
        > eventually will). Those imaginative EK heavens
        >
        > are awaiting and that feels good. That's why
        >
        > religions work so well and are so popular with
        >
        > people. But, that's part of the problem too.
        >
        >
        >
        > BTW, why aren't H.I.s "Always With You?"
        >
        > According to Klemp in his "Autobiography"
        >
        > (pg. 385) "God" is of the 4th Mental Plane
        >
        > but does all kinds of Miracles, etc. H.I.s are
        >
        > "Higher" than this "God" so why can't these
        >
        > H.I.s "Always Be With You" or "With" one
        >
        > another? A lie is not a paradox! ECK "stories"
        >
        > are mental plane experiences coming from
        >
        > this same 4th plane "God" (Kal) source.
        >
        >
        >
        > Soul equals Soul means that we are all the
        >
        > same and, yet, unique. Klemp has stolen
        >
        > Soul's equality, identity, and uniqueness
        >
        > and ECKists haven't noticed. I pity them
        >
        > with their delusions, but then again, I can
        >
        > understand why many have found solace
        >
        > in religion and on running on auto pilot.
        >
        > I just can't understand why those H.I.s
        >
        > who appear to have more going for them,
        >
        > or seem to be stronger and more astute
        >
        > continue to play Klemp's game and live
        >
        > their lives under his shadow with so many
        >
        > "spiritual" restraints and delusions. Maybe
        >
        > for many of those working at the ESC it's
        >
        > simply job security to play the game.
        >
        > That's what Klemp did with Darwin.
        >
        >
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        BTW- The I Am Always With You slogan can, also, be applied to those loved ones who are currently with us, as well as, to those who are no longer with us...
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 2, 2010
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          BTW- The "I Am Always With You"
          slogan can, also, be applied to
          those loved ones who are currently
          with us, as well as, to those who
          are no longer with us... just as
          it is applied to a mahanta/god
          or anyone. Klemp's nobody special.

          If other Souls (loved ones) can
          always be with us then why is
          this a special slogan? HK's no
          more "with" ECKists than their
          loved ones are whether living
          or dead. Yet, Klemp gets away
          with saying, I Am Always With
          You... Duh!



          Hello Drew,
          So true! Twit was encouraged by Gail
          to do something with the material
          he had gathered and edited.

          He then started to give lectures and
          do self-promotions by giving interviews
          and talks (intros), and began writing
          discourses and the monthly Wisdom
          Notes. When he started to make some
          money is when he created the Mahanta
          title (1969). Then the books started to
          come out and the money rolled in.

          Klemp has done the same with his
          books, CDs. tapes, pics, etc. except
          these are even more worthless than
          Twitchell's fiction. HK could never
          write a Shariyat or finish the 12 book
          series, but that doesn't, apparently,
          seem to bother Klemp's followers
          since the money is still rolling in.
          From the look of HK's tan at this
          past 2010 EK Worldwide it looks
          like he's been vacationing in the
          islands... where he probably has
          a second home.


          Drew wrote:

          I think the real meaning of " I Am Always With You"
          could also be "My Hand Is Always in Your Pocket" lol
          which is why Twitch created eckankar in the first place.....

          Prometheus wrote:

          >ECKists have replaced one "God" for another.
          >
          > Sure, they call "Him" by a different name but
          >
          > in essence it's merely a revised substitution.
          >
          >
          >
          > In ECKankar the members see themselves
          >
          > "as" Soul versus having "a" Soul. There's
          >
          > no separate identity between human and
          >
          > divine. According to ECKankar, you (we)
          >
          > are Soul and are a part of the Divine, but
          >
          > are living in a physical shell (body). And,
          >
          > there are other "bodies" that also "protect"
          >
          > Soul from the coarse "vibrations" of the
          >
          > "Lower" Planes. Therefore, everyone's true
          >
          > identity is that of Being... a Divine Soul.
          >
          > It just "IS." Personally, I think that much
          >
          > of this needed "protection" for Soul is B.S.,
          >
          > and Soul is not affected by "lower" vibrations.
          >
          > It's a myth!
          >
          >
          >
          > Klemp likes to say, "I Am Always With You"
          >
          > when he signs off.
          >
          >
          >
          > But what does this really mean? Eckists seem
          >
          > to have an identity crisis since they are constantly
          >
          > being separated from their identity as Soul
          >
          > via Klemp's dogma involving his rank above
          >
          > them and all other Souls.
          >
          >
          >
          > Soul is a Divine part of the "ECK" as is the
          >
          > Mahanta... there is actually no difference.
          >
          > And, according to EK Teachings Soul equals
          >
          > Soul. This means that Klemp is No Higher or
          >
          > more valued than any other Soul. But, is this
          >
          > the case? Not quite. With Klemp it's an Ego
          >
          > thing and he needs to be the Top Dog on both
          >
          > the outer and inner. Twitchell started this myth.
          >
          > In reality, on the "inner," HK's equal to all
          >
          > other Souls, and he hates this truth. Souls started
          >
          > out being equal until PT switched it around with
          >
          > the "Mahanta" concept in 1969. Being both a LEM
          >
          > and a Mahanta is a flawed concept but Twitchell
          >
          > needed to be the Top Dog as Klemp does. Basically,
          >
          > it's a Bait and Switch!
          >
          >
          >
          > All Souls are Always With one another. Right?
          >
          > I really don't buy the "plane" thing with the
          >
          > numbers and the judgment and the homework
          >
          > and the tests and of separating Soul in classes
          >
          > like wheat from the chaff etc. It doesn't make
          >
          > sense in this day and age. When EKies speak
          >
          > about "the Sugmad Worlds," or whatever, why
          >
          > do they accept old hearsay versions from invisible/
          >
          > living Masters who are hundreds and thousands
          >
          > of years old. It's immature mental plane fantasy!
          >
          >
          >
          > Each Soul is as much of the "I AM" as any other
          >
          > Soul. In actuality, there are No initiations and
          >
          > rankings in the God Worlds. Really, how can it
          >
          > be? Initiations can't exist and neither can gender!
          >
          > If anything, there should only be 4 initiations.
          >
          > Therefore there are no male or female ECK Masters
          >
          > nor images i.e. drawings/photos. Every Soul
          >
          > is a Master. Its human counterpart needs
          >
          > to recognize this and and live it.
          >
          >
          >
          > BTW, Women are the equals of Men and should
          >
          > be treated as such, and Soul is the equal to
          >
          > every other Soul and should be treated as such.
          >
          >
          >
          > Limitations are both recognized and created
          >
          > by the finite mind for/by itself, naturally. Even
          >
          > the imagination has limitations. It's really too
          >
          > bad when I hear and see longtime H.I.s parrot
          >
          > the, "I Am Always With You" idiom. They must
          >
          > be tired of thinking and, therefore, just repeat
          >
          > the old words and phrases that have stuck in
          >
          > their memories.
          >
          >
          >
          > Sure, it's kind of touchy and feely and sounds
          >
          > like a mystical and/or religious promise of
          >
          > sorts. I guess it's supposed to reenforce hope
          >
          > and the belief that the "Mahanta" (God) is always
          >
          > there standing in the wings and looking after
          >
          > you. It doesn't happen of course but it feels
          >
          > good to think that someone cares and has your
          >
          > back just in case the worst happens (as it
          >
          > eventually will). Those imaginative EK heavens
          >
          > are awaiting and that feels good. That's why
          >
          > religions work so well and are so popular with
          >
          > people. But, that's part of the problem too.
          >
          >
          >
          > BTW, why aren't H.I.s "Always With You?"
          >
          > According to Klemp in his "Autobiography"
          >
          > (pg. 385) "God" is of the 4th Mental Plane
          >
          > but does all kinds of Miracles, etc. H.I.s are
          >
          > "Higher" than this "God" so why can't these
          >
          > H.I.s "Always Be With You" or "With" one
          >
          > another? A lie is not a paradox! ECK "stories"
          >
          > are mental plane experiences coming from
          >
          > this same 4th plane "God" (Kal) source.
          >
          >
          >
          > Soul equals Soul means that we are all the
          >
          > same and, yet, unique. Klemp has stolen
          >
          > Soul's equality, identity, and uniqueness
          >
          > and ECKists haven't noticed. I pity them
          >
          > with their delusions, but then again, I can
          >
          > understand why many have found solace
          >
          > in religion and on running on auto pilot.
          >
          > I just can't understand why those H.I.s
          >
          > who appear to have more going for them,
          >
          > or seem to be stronger and more astute
          >
          > continue to play Klemp's game and live
          >
          > their lives under his shadow with so many
          >
          > "spiritual" restraints and delusions. Maybe
          >
          > for many of those working at the ESC it's
          >
          > simply job security to play the game.
          >
          > That's what Klemp did with Darwin.
          >
          >
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
        • etznab@aol.com
          The guru always with you paradigm, I believe that was old hat during the time of Julian Johnson in the 1930s. In other words, what surfaced in Eckankar dogma
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 2, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            The guru always with you paradigm, I believe that was
            old hat during the time of Julian Johnson in the 1930s.
            In other words, what surfaced in Eckankar dogma as
            "I am always with you" was not a novel creation. IMO.

            The way Julian Johnson wrote in his book The Path of
            the Masters, it was my impression that he idolized the
            "living master" paradigm. And if it's true what was said
            about Paul Twitchell writing his guru Kirpal Singh for a
            number of years, I believe Paul was keen on promoting
            the importance of a living master ("guru") as well.

            I've often tried to discover where the idolization of one
            single master at a time (as representative God) arose
            in human history. It probably goes back to Jesus and
            even before that.

            The purpose for a living master, as I understand it, is
            for having a way to update the spiritual teachings. Yet
            common sense tells me that every single individual is
            at liberty to update spiritual teachings as well, with the
            truth! Appointing one person as top dog, however, and
            one who's word trump's that of all others would only be
            nice if that person was truly enlightened more than all
            other persons. If they are not, however, and if they go
            about adding fictions & pseudo religion / history to the
            spiritual teachings, it can cause a serious problem, in
            my opinion. Especially if the fictions and pseudo man-
            made religion / history are propagated as literal truth.
            Why would a master / guru do that? I can surmise it
            basically says that human consciousness is limited
            and most gurus / masters are simply playing the part
            of God. LIke as if there were a costume children could
            go dress on Halloween as. But most masters look and
            are as human as anybody else and there is no special
            costume. The "costumes" are the "titles", IMO, that
            other people associate as the designations of spiritual
            hierarchy. Popes, Bishops, Priests, Pastors, Masters
            and Gurus's etc. Putting "The" in front of the title Living
            Master gives people the sense of "there can be only
            one", IMO. Deriving credibility via guru lineage for the
            living guru, after using fictional characters to animate
            such lineage is unpardonable, IMO. It's not only with
            the Eckankar dogma, but other paths have fabricated
            their own lineages just as well. Including additions of
            pseudo man-made religion / history. It's a "red flag" to
            discover such things about one's own religious organ-
            ization. Even more difficult is having to rationalize why
            it's OK for masters and clergy to not come clean with
            the truth. What are they thinking?

            Etznab

            -----Original Message-----
            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:35 pm
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] "I Am Always With You" - The Real
            Meaning

             
            ECKists have replaced one "God" for another.
            Sure, they call "Him" by a different name but
            in essence it's merely a revised substitution.

            In ECKankar the members see themselves
            "as" Soul versus having "a" Soul. There's
            no separate identity between human and
            divine. According to ECKankar, you (we)
            are Soul and are a part of the Divine, but
            are living in a physical shell (body). And,
            there are other "bodies" that also "protect"
            Soul from the coarse "vibrations" of the
            "Lower" Planes. Therefore, everyone's true
            identity is that of Being... a Divine Soul.
            It just "IS." Personally, I think that much
            of this needed "protection" for Soul is B.S.,
            and Soul is not affected by "lower" vibrations.
            It's a myth!

            Klemp likes to say, "I Am Always With You"
            when he signs off.

            But what does this really mean? Eckists seem
            to have an identity crisis since they are constantly
            being separated from their identity as Soul
            via Klemp's dogma involving his rank above
            them and all other Souls.

            Soul is a Divine part of the "ECK" as is the
            Mahanta... there is actually no difference.
            And, according to EK Teachings Soul equals
            Soul. This means that Klemp is No Higher or
            more valued than any other Soul. But, is this
            the case? Not quite. With Klemp it's an Ego
            thing and he needs to be the Top Dog on both
            the outer and inner. Twitchell started this myth.
            In reality, on the "inner," HK's equal to all
            other Souls, and he hates this truth. This isn't
            the reality with how PT created the ECK teachings
            and how they are practiced. Being a LEM/Mahanta
            is a flawed concept because Twitchell needed
            to be the Top Dog as Klemp does. Basically, it's
            a Bait and Switch!

            All Souls are Always With one another. Right?
            I really don't buy the "plane" thing with the
            numbers and the judgment and the homework
            and the tests and of separating Soul in classes
            like wheat from the chaff etc. It doesn't make
            sense in this day and age. When EKies speak
            about "the Sugmad Worlds," or whatever, why
            do they accept old hearsay versions from invisible/
            living Masters who are hundreds and thousands
            of years old. It's immature mental plane fantasy!

            Each Soul is as much of the "I AM" as any other
            Soul. In actuality, there are No initiations and
            rankings in the God Worlds. Really, how can it
            be? Initiations can't exist and neither can gender!
            If anything, there should only be 4 initiations.
            Therefore there are no male or female ECK Masters
            nor images i.e. drawings/photos. Every Soul
            is a Master. Its human counterpart needs
            to recognize this and and live it.

            BTW, Women are the equals of Men and should
            be treated as such, and Soul is the equal to
            every other Soul and should be treated as such.

            Limitations are both recognized and created
            by the finite mind for/by itself, naturally. Even
            the imagination has limitations. It's really too
            bad when I hear and see longtime H.I.s parrot
            the, "I Am Always With You" idiom. They must
            be tired of thinking and, therefore, just repeat
            the old words and phrases that have stuck in
            their memories.

            Sure, it's kind of touchy and feely and sounds
            like a mystical and/or religious promise of
            sorts. I guess it's supposed to reenforce hope
            and the belief that the "Mahanta" (God) is always
            there standing in the wings and looking after
            you. It doesn't happen of course but it feels
            good to think that someone cares and has your
            back just in case the worst happens (as it
            eventually will). Those imaginative EK heavens
            are awaiting and that feels good. That's why
            religions work so well and are so popular with
            people. But, that's part of the problem too.

            BTW, why aren't H.I.s "Always With You?"
            According to Klemp in his "Autobiography"
            (pg. 385) "God" is of the 4th Mental Plane
            but does all kinds of Miracles, etc. H.I.s are
            "Higher" than this "God" so why can't these
            H.I.s "Always Be With You" or "With" one
            another? A lie is not a paradox! ECK "stories"
            are mental plane experiences coming from
            this same 4th plane "God" (Kal) source.

            Soul equals Soul means that we are all the
            same and, yet, unique. Klemp has stolen
            Soul's equality, identity, and uniqueness
            and ECKists haven't noticed. I pity them
            with their delusions, but then again, I can
            understand why many have found solace
            in religion and on running on auto pilot.
            I just can't understand why those H.I.s
            who appear to have more going for them,
            or seem to be stronger and more astute
            continue to play Klemp's game and live
            their lives under his shadow with so many
            "spiritual" restraints and delusions. Maybe
            for many of those working at the ESC it's
            simply job security to play the game.
            That's what Klemp did with Darwin.

            Prometheus
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Etznab, I agree with you. The reason I approached the ECK version of I Am Always With You from this other perspective of Soul, and in regard to dead
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 3, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Etznab,
              I agree with you. The reason I approached
              the ECK version of "I Am Always With You"
              from this other perspective of Soul, and
              in regard to dead loved ones, is that I saw
              a very highly respected ECKist use it both
              ways. She spouts the Mahanta crap and
              then applies the same I Am Always You
              to her dead loved ones being Always With
              her and her with them.

              With ECKists this concept of "I Am Always
              With You" probably applies to pets as well.
              Perhaps the dead pets are now seen as being
              "animal angels." Actually, in ECKankar, there's
              more focus and books written about "Animal
              Angels" than on human angels (Soul)! Why's
              that? Probably because Human Angels versus
              Animal Angels would give some competition
              to Klemp and to the ECK Master myths. This
              is why the topic of (human/people) Angels
              is avoided by ECKists. In EK any human angel
              becomes a mysterious minor being or an
              ECK Master... never anything in-between
              or as a loved one who has passed. Only Klemp
              (the Mahanta) is permitted to "watch over"
              or to "assist" the living, except, he doesn't!

              The purpose of a Living Master is to have
              more and better control over the faithful.
              Otherwise, there would be a schism and
              various clerics/masters would become leaders
              based upon their ability to communicate
              and decipher/interpret their holy scriptures.
              Living Masters can interpret scripture any
              way they want and twist it to fit their agendas.
              They are no other authorities over them,
              although, there are others that could do
              a better job and are more spiritual.

              Masters/Prophets are usually the ones
              who first led/taught people a specific
              dogma. The religion was created during
              this time frame or later by their followers.
              Thus, Twitchell was the Moses, Abraham
              and Mohammad of ECKankar. Klemp is
              simply a caretaker, like the Pope, posing
              as a Master/Mahanta.

              Prometheus


              Etznab wrote:

              The guru always with you paradigm, I believe that was
              old hat during the time of Julian Johnson in the 1930s.
              In other words, what surfaced in Eckankar dogma as
              "I am always with you" was not a novel creation. IMO.

              The way Julian Johnson wrote in his book The Path of
              the Masters, it was my impression that he idolized the
              "living master" paradigm. And if it's true what was said
              about Paul Twitchell writing his guru Kirpal Singh for a
              number of years, I believe Paul was keen on promoting
              the importance of a living master ("guru") as well.

              I've often tried to discover where the idolization of one
              single master at a time (as representative God) arose
              in human history. It probably goes back to Jesus and
              even before that.

              The purpose for a living master, as I understand it, is
              for having a way to update the spiritual teachings. Yet
              common sense tells me that every single individual is
              at liberty to update spiritual teachings as well, with the
              truth! Appointing one person as top dog, however, and
              one who's word trump's that of all others would only be
              nice if that person was truly enlightened more than all
              other persons. If they are not, however, and if they go
              about adding fictions & pseudo religion / history to the
              spiritual teachings, it can cause a serious problem, in
              my opinion. Especially if the fictions and pseudo man-
              made religion / history are propagated as literal truth.
              Why would a master / guru do that? I can surmise it
              basically says that human consciousness is limited
              and most gurus / masters are simply playing the part
              of God. LIke as if there were a costume children could
              go dress on Halloween as. But most masters look and
              are as human as anybody else and there is no special
              costume. The "costumes" are the "titles", IMO, that
              other people associate as the designations of spiritual
              hierarchy. Popes, Bishops, Priests, Pastors, Masters
              and Gurus's etc. Putting "The" in front of the title Living
              Master gives people the sense of "there can be only
              one", IMO. Deriving credibility via guru lineage for the
              living guru, after using fictional characters to animate
              such lineage is unpardonable, IMO. It's not only with
              the Eckankar dogma, but other paths have fabricated
              their own lineages just as well. Including additions of
              pseudo man-made religion / history. It's a "red flag" to
              discover such things about one's own religious organ-
              ization. Even more difficult is having to rationalize why
              it's OK for masters and clergy to not come clean with
              the truth. What are they thinking?

              Etznab

              Prometheus wrote:

              ECKists have replaced one "God" for another.
              Sure, they call "Him" by a different name but
              in essence it's merely a revised substitution.

              In ECKankar the members see themselves
              "as" Soul versus having "a" Soul. There's
              no separate identity between human and
              divine. According to ECKankar, you (we)
              are Soul and are a part of the Divine, but
              are living in a physical shell (body). And,
              there are other "bodies" that also "protect"
              Soul from the coarse "vibrations" of the
              "Lower" Planes. Therefore, everyone's true
              identity is that of Being... a Divine Soul.
              It just "IS." Personally, I think that much
              of this needed "protection" for Soul is B.S.,
              and Soul is not affected by "lower" vibrations.
              It's a myth!

              Klemp likes to say, "I Am Always With You"
              when he signs off.

              But what does this really mean? Eckists seem
              to have an identity crisis since they are constantly
              being separated from their identity as Soul
              via Klemp's dogma involving his rank above
              them and all other Souls.

              Soul is a Divine part of the "ECK" as is the
              Mahanta... there is actually no difference.
              And, according to EK Teachings Soul equals
              Soul. This means that Klemp is No Higher or
              more valued than any other Soul. But, is this
              the case? Not quite. With Klemp it's an Ego
              thing and he needs to be the Top Dog on both
              the outer and inner. Twitchell started this myth.
              In reality, on the "inner," HK's equal to all
              other Souls, and he hates this truth. This isn't
              the reality with how PT created the ECK teachings
              and how they are practiced. Being a LEM/Mahanta
              is a flawed concept because Twitchell needed
              to be the Top Dog as Klemp does. Basically, it's
              a Bait and Switch!

              All Souls are Always With one another. Right?
              I really don't buy the "plane" thing with the
              numbers and the judgment and the homework
              and the tests and of separating Soul in classes
              like wheat from the chaff etc. It doesn't make
              sense in this day and age. When EKies speak
              about "the Sugmad Worlds," or whatever, why
              do they accept old hearsay versions from invisible/
              living Masters who are hundreds and thousands
              of years old. It's immature mental plane fantasy!

              Each Soul is as much of the "I AM" as any other
              Soul. In actuality, there are No initiations and
              rankings in the God Worlds. Really, how can it
              be? Initiations can't exist and neither can gender!
              If anything, there should only be 4 initiations.
              Therefore there are no male or female ECK Masters
              nor images i.e. drawings/photos. Every Soul
              is a Master. Its human counterpart needs
              to recognize this and and live it.

              BTW, Women are the equals of Men and should
              be treated as such, and Soul is the equal to
              every other Soul and should be treated as such.

              Limitations are both recognized and created
              by the finite mind for/by itself, naturally. Even
              the imagination has limitations. It's really too
              bad when I hear and see longtime H.I.s parrot
              the, "I Am Always With You" idiom. They must
              be tired of thinking and, therefore, just repeat
              the old words and phrases that have stuck in
              their memories.

              Sure, it's kind of touchy and feely and sounds
              like a mystical and/or religious promise of
              sorts. I guess it's supposed to reenforce hope
              and the belief that the "Mahanta" (God) is always
              there standing in the wings and looking after
              you. It doesn't happen of course but it feels
              good to think that someone cares and has your
              back just in case the worst happens (as it
              eventually will). Those imaginative EK heavens
              are awaiting and that feels good. That's why
              religions work so well and are so popular with
              people. But, that's part of the problem too.

              BTW, why aren't H.I.s "Always With You?"
              According to Klemp in his "Autobiography"
              (pg. 385) "God" is of the 4th Mental Plane
              but does all kinds of Miracles, etc. H.I.s are
              "Higher" than this "God" so why can't these
              H.I.s "Always Be With You" or "With" one
              another? A lie is not a paradox! ECK "stories"
              are mental plane experiences coming from
              this same 4th plane "God" (Kal) source.

              Soul equals Soul means that we are all the
              same and, yet, unique. Klemp has stolen
              Soul's equality, identity, and uniqueness
              and ECKists haven't noticed. I pity them
              with their delusions, but then again, I can
              understand why many have found solace
              in religion and on running on auto pilot.
              I just can't understand why those H.I.s
              who appear to have more going for them,
              or seem to be stronger and more astute
              continue to play Klemp's game and live
              their lives under his shadow with so many
              "spiritual" restraints and delusions. Maybe
              for many of those working at the ESC it's
              simply job security to play the game.
              That's what Klemp did with Darwin.

              Prometheus
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