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"I Am Always With You" - The Real Meaning

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  • prometheus_973
    ECKists have replaced one God for another. Sure, they call Him by a different name but in essence it s merely a revised substitution. In ECKankar the
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 1, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      ECKists have replaced one "God" for another.
      Sure, they call "Him" by a different name but
      in essence it's merely a revised substitution.

      In ECKankar the members see themselves
      "as" Soul versus having "a" Soul. There's
      no separate identity between human and
      divine. According to ECKankar, you (we)
      are Soul and are a part of the Divine, but
      are living in a physical shell (body). And,
      there are other "bodies" that also "protect"
      Soul from the coarse "vibrations" of the
      "Lower" Planes. Therefore, everyone's true
      identity is that of Being... a Divine Soul.
      It just "IS." Personally, I think that much
      of this needed "protection" for Soul is B.S.,
      and Soul is not affected by "lower" vibrations.
      It's a myth!

      Klemp likes to say, "I Am Always With You"
      when he signs off.

      But what does this really mean? Eckists seem
      to have an identity crisis since they are constantly
      being separated from their identity as Soul
      via Klemp's dogma involving his rank above
      them and all other Souls.

      Soul is a Divine part of the "ECK" as is the
      Mahanta... there is actually no difference.
      And, according to EK Teachings Soul equals
      Soul. This means that Klemp is No Higher or
      more valued than any other Soul. But, is this
      the case? Not quite. With Klemp it's an Ego
      thing and he needs to be the Top Dog on both
      the outer and inner. Twitchell started this myth.
      In reality, on the "inner," HK's equal to all
      other Souls, and he hates this truth. This isn't
      the reality with how PT created the ECK teachings
      and how they are practiced. Being a LEM/Mahanta
      is a flawed concept because Twitchell needed
      to be the Top Dog as Klemp does. Basically, it's
      a Bait and Switch!

      All Souls are Always With one another. Right?
      I really don't buy the "plane" thing with the
      numbers and the judgment and the homework
      and the tests and of separating Soul in classes
      like wheat from the chaff etc. It doesn't make
      sense in this day and age. When EKies speak
      about "the Sugmad Worlds," or whatever, why
      do they accept old hearsay versions from invisible/
      living Masters who are hundreds and thousands
      of years old. It's immature mental plane fantasy!

      Each Soul is as much of the "I AM" as any other
      Soul. In actuality, there are No initiations and
      rankings in the God Worlds. Really, how can it
      be? Initiations can't exist and neither can gender!
      If anything, there should only be 4 initiations.
      Therefore there are no male or female ECK Masters
      nor images i.e. drawings/photos. Every Soul
      is a Master. Its human counterpart needs
      to recognize this and and live it.

      BTW, Women are the equals of Men and should
      be treated as such, and Soul is the equal to
      every other Soul and should be treated as such.

      Limitations are both recognized and created
      by the finite mind for/by itself, naturally. Even
      the imagination has limitations. It's really too
      bad when I hear and see longtime H.I.s parrot
      the, "I Am Always With You" idiom. They must
      be tired of thinking and, therefore, just repeat
      the old words and phrases that have stuck in
      their memories.

      Sure, it's kind of touchy and feely and sounds
      like a mystical and/or religious promise of
      sorts. I guess it's supposed to reenforce hope
      and the belief that the "Mahanta" (God) is always
      there standing in the wings and looking after
      you. It doesn't happen of course but it feels
      good to think that someone cares and has your
      back just in case the worst happens (as it
      eventually will). Those imaginative EK heavens
      are awaiting and that feels good. That's why
      religions work so well and are so popular with
      people. But, that's part of the problem too.

      BTW, why aren't H.I.s "Always With You?"
      According to Klemp in his "Autobiography"
      (pg. 385) "God" is of the 4th Mental Plane
      but does all kinds of Miracles, etc. H.I.s are
      "Higher" than this "God" so why can't these
      H.I.s "Always Be With You" or "With" one
      another? A lie is not a paradox! ECK "stories"
      are mental plane experiences coming from
      this same 4th plane "God" (Kal) source.

      Soul equals Soul means that we are all the
      same and, yet, unique. Klemp has stolen
      Soul's equality, identity, and uniqueness
      and ECKists haven't noticed. I pity them
      with their delusions, but then again, I can
      understand why many have found solace
      in religion and on running on auto pilot.
      I just can't understand why those H.I.s
      who appear to have more going for them,
      or seem to be stronger and more astute
      continue to play Klemp's game and live
      their lives under his shadow with so many
      "spiritual" restraints and delusions. Maybe
      for many of those working at the ESC it's
      simply job security to play the game.
      That's what Klemp did with Darwin.

      Prometheus
    • Drew van Rijk
      I think the real meaning of I Am Always With You could also be My Hand Is Always in Your Pocket  lol  which is why Twitch created eckankar in the first
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 2, 2010
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        I think the real meaning of " I Am Always With You" could also be "My Hand Is Always in Your Pocket"  lol  which is why Twitch created eckankar in the first place.....

        --- On Mon, 11/1/10, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] "I Am Always With You" - The Real Meaning
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Received: Monday, November 1, 2010, 10:35 PM

         

        ECKists have replaced one "God" for another.
        Sure, they call "Him" by a different name but
        in essence it's merely a revised substitution.

        In ECKankar the members see themselves
        "as" Soul versus having "a" Soul. There's
        no separate identity between human and
        divine. According to ECKankar, you (we)
        are Soul and are a part of the Divine, but
        are living in a physical shell (body). And,
        there are other "bodies" that also "protect"
        Soul from the coarse "vibrations" of the
        "Lower" Planes. Therefore, everyone's true
        identity is that of Being... a Divine Soul.
        It just "IS." Personally, I think that much
        of this needed "protection" for Soul is B.S.,
        and Soul is not affected by "lower" vibrations.
        It's a myth!

        Klemp likes to say, "I Am Always With You"
        when he signs off.

        But what does this really mean? Eckists seem
        to have an identity crisis since they are constantly
        being separated from their identity as Soul
        via Klemp's dogma involving his rank above
        them and all other Souls.

        Soul is a Divine part of the "ECK" as is the
        Mahanta... there is actually no difference.
        And, according to EK Teachings Soul equals
        Soul. This means that Klemp is No Higher or
        more valued than any other Soul. But, is this
        the case? Not quite. With Klemp it's an Ego
        thing and he needs to be the Top Dog on both
        the outer and inner. Twitchell started this myth.
        In reality, on the "inner," HK's equal to all
        other Souls, and he hates this truth. This isn't
        the reality with how PT created the ECK teachings
        and how they are practiced. Being a LEM/Mahanta
        is a flawed concept because Twitchell needed
        to be the Top Dog as Klemp does. Basically, it's
        a Bait and Switch!

        All Souls are Always With one another. Right?
        I really don't buy the "plane" thing with the
        numbers and the judgment and the homework
        and the tests and of separating Soul in classes
        like wheat from the chaff etc. It doesn't make
        sense in this day and age. When EKies speak
        about "the Sugmad Worlds," or whatever, why
        do they accept old hearsay versions from invisible/
        living Masters who are hundreds and thousands
        of years old. It's immature mental plane fantasy!

        Each Soul is as much of the "I AM" as any other
        Soul. In actuality, there are No initiations and
        rankings in the God Worlds. Really, how can it
        be? Initiations can't exist and neither can gender!
        If anything, there should only be 4 initiations.
        Therefore there are no male or female ECK Masters
        nor images i.e. drawings/photos. Every Soul
        is a Master. Its human counterpart needs
        to recognize this and and live it.

        BTW, Women are the equals of Men and should
        be treated as such, and Soul is the equal to
        every other Soul and should be treated as such.

        Limitations are both recognized and created
        by the finite mind for/by itself, naturally. Even
        the imagination has limitations. It's really too
        bad when I hear and see longtime H.I.s parrot
        the, "I Am Always With You" idiom. They must
        be tired of thinking and, therefore, just repeat
        the old words and phrases that have stuck in
        their memories.

        Sure, it's kind of touchy and feely and sounds
        like a mystical and/or religious promise of
        sorts. I guess it's supposed to reenforce hope
        and the belief that the "Mahanta" (God) is always
        there standing in the wings and looking after
        you. It doesn't happen of course but it feels
        good to think that someone cares and has your
        back just in case the worst happens (as it
        eventually will). Those imaginative EK heavens
        are awaiting and that feels good. That's why
        religions work so well and are so popular with
        people. But, that's part of the problem too.

        BTW, why aren't H.I.s "Always With You?"
        According to Klemp in his "Autobiography"
        (pg. 385) "God" is of the 4th Mental Plane
        but does all kinds of Miracles, etc. H.I.s are
        "Higher" than this "God" so why can't these
        H.I.s "Always Be With You" or "With" one
        another? A lie is not a paradox! ECK "stories"
        are mental plane experiences coming from
        this same 4th plane "God" (Kal) source.

        Soul equals Soul means that we are all the
        same and, yet, unique. Klemp has stolen
        Soul's equality, identity, and uniqueness
        and ECKists haven't noticed. I pity them
        with their delusions, but then again, I can
        understand why many have found solace
        in religion and on running on auto pilot.
        I just can't understand why those H.I.s
        who appear to have more going for them,
        or seem to be stronger and more astute
        continue to play Klemp's game and live
        their lives under his shadow with so many
        "spiritual" restraints and delusions. Maybe
        for many of those working at the ESC it's
        simply job security to play the game.
        That's what Klemp did with Darwin.

        Prometheus


      • prometheus_973
        Hello Drew, So true! Twit was encouraged by Gail to do something with the material he had gathered and edited. He then started to give lectures and do
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 2, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Drew,
          So true! Twit was encouraged by Gail
          to do something with the material
          he had gathered and edited.

          He then started to give lectures and
          do self-promotions by giving interviews
          and talks (intros), and began writing
          discourses and the monthly Wisdom
          Notes. When he started to make some
          money is when he created the Mahanta
          title (1969). Then the books started to
          come out and the money rolled in.

          Klemp has done the same with his
          books, CDs. tapes, pics, etc. except
          these are even more worthless than
          Twitchell's fiction. HK could never
          write a Shariyat or finish the 12 book
          series, but that doesn't, apparently,
          seem to bother Klemp's followers
          since the money is still rolling in.
          From the look of HK's tan at this
          past 2010 EK Worldwide it looks
          like he's been vacationing in the
          islands... where he probably has
          a second home.


          Drew wrote:

          I think the real meaning of " I Am Always With You"
          could also be "My Hand Is Always in Your Pocket" lol
          which is why Twitch created eckankar in the first place.....

          Prometheus wrote:

          >ECKists have replaced one "God" for another.
          >
          > Sure, they call "Him" by a different name but
          >
          > in essence it's merely a revised substitution.
          >
          >
          >
          > In ECKankar the members see themselves
          >
          > "as" Soul versus having "a" Soul. There's
          >
          > no separate identity between human and
          >
          > divine. According to ECKankar, you (we)
          >
          > are Soul and are a part of the Divine, but
          >
          > are living in a physical shell (body). And,
          >
          > there are other "bodies" that also "protect"
          >
          > Soul from the coarse "vibrations" of the
          >
          > "Lower" Planes. Therefore, everyone's true
          >
          > identity is that of Being... a Divine Soul.
          >
          > It just "IS." Personally, I think that much
          >
          > of this needed "protection" for Soul is B.S.,
          >
          > and Soul is not affected by "lower" vibrations.
          >
          > It's a myth!
          >
          >
          >
          > Klemp likes to say, "I Am Always With You"
          >
          > when he signs off.
          >
          >
          >
          > But what does this really mean? Eckists seem
          >
          > to have an identity crisis since they are constantly
          >
          > being separated from their identity as Soul
          >
          > via Klemp's dogma involving his rank above
          >
          > them and all other Souls.
          >
          >
          >
          > Soul is a Divine part of the "ECK" as is the
          >
          > Mahanta... there is actually no difference.
          >
          > And, according to EK Teachings Soul equals
          >
          > Soul. This means that Klemp is No Higher or
          >
          > more valued than any other Soul. But, is this
          >
          > the case? Not quite. With Klemp it's an Ego
          >
          > thing and he needs to be the Top Dog on both
          >
          > the outer and inner. Twitchell started this myth.
          >
          > In reality, on the "inner," HK's equal to all
          >
          > other Souls, and he hates this truth. Souls started
          >
          > out being equal until PT switched it around with
          >
          > the "Mahanta" concept in 1969. Being both a LEM
          >
          > and a Mahanta is a flawed concept but Twitchell
          >
          > needed to be the Top Dog as Klemp does. Basically,
          >
          > it's a Bait and Switch!
          >
          >
          >
          > All Souls are Always With one another. Right?
          >
          > I really don't buy the "plane" thing with the
          >
          > numbers and the judgment and the homework
          >
          > and the tests and of separating Soul in classes
          >
          > like wheat from the chaff etc. It doesn't make
          >
          > sense in this day and age. When EKies speak
          >
          > about "the Sugmad Worlds," or whatever, why
          >
          > do they accept old hearsay versions from invisible/
          >
          > living Masters who are hundreds and thousands
          >
          > of years old. It's immature mental plane fantasy!
          >
          >
          >
          > Each Soul is as much of the "I AM" as any other
          >
          > Soul. In actuality, there are No initiations and
          >
          > rankings in the God Worlds. Really, how can it
          >
          > be? Initiations can't exist and neither can gender!
          >
          > If anything, there should only be 4 initiations.
          >
          > Therefore there are no male or female ECK Masters
          >
          > nor images i.e. drawings/photos. Every Soul
          >
          > is a Master. Its human counterpart needs
          >
          > to recognize this and and live it.
          >
          >
          >
          > BTW, Women are the equals of Men and should
          >
          > be treated as such, and Soul is the equal to
          >
          > every other Soul and should be treated as such.
          >
          >
          >
          > Limitations are both recognized and created
          >
          > by the finite mind for/by itself, naturally. Even
          >
          > the imagination has limitations. It's really too
          >
          > bad when I hear and see longtime H.I.s parrot
          >
          > the, "I Am Always With You" idiom. They must
          >
          > be tired of thinking and, therefore, just repeat
          >
          > the old words and phrases that have stuck in
          >
          > their memories.
          >
          >
          >
          > Sure, it's kind of touchy and feely and sounds
          >
          > like a mystical and/or religious promise of
          >
          > sorts. I guess it's supposed to reenforce hope
          >
          > and the belief that the "Mahanta" (God) is always
          >
          > there standing in the wings and looking after
          >
          > you. It doesn't happen of course but it feels
          >
          > good to think that someone cares and has your
          >
          > back just in case the worst happens (as it
          >
          > eventually will). Those imaginative EK heavens
          >
          > are awaiting and that feels good. That's why
          >
          > religions work so well and are so popular with
          >
          > people. But, that's part of the problem too.
          >
          >
          >
          > BTW, why aren't H.I.s "Always With You?"
          >
          > According to Klemp in his "Autobiography"
          >
          > (pg. 385) "God" is of the 4th Mental Plane
          >
          > but does all kinds of Miracles, etc. H.I.s are
          >
          > "Higher" than this "God" so why can't these
          >
          > H.I.s "Always Be With You" or "With" one
          >
          > another? A lie is not a paradox! ECK "stories"
          >
          > are mental plane experiences coming from
          >
          > this same 4th plane "God" (Kal) source.
          >
          >
          >
          > Soul equals Soul means that we are all the
          >
          > same and, yet, unique. Klemp has stolen
          >
          > Soul's equality, identity, and uniqueness
          >
          > and ECKists haven't noticed. I pity them
          >
          > with their delusions, but then again, I can
          >
          > understand why many have found solace
          >
          > in religion and on running on auto pilot.
          >
          > I just can't understand why those H.I.s
          >
          > who appear to have more going for them,
          >
          > or seem to be stronger and more astute
          >
          > continue to play Klemp's game and live
          >
          > their lives under his shadow with so many
          >
          > "spiritual" restraints and delusions. Maybe
          >
          > for many of those working at the ESC it's
          >
          > simply job security to play the game.
          >
          > That's what Klemp did with Darwin.
          >
          >
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
        • prometheus_973
          BTW- The I Am Always With You slogan can, also, be applied to those loved ones who are currently with us, as well as, to those who are no longer with us...
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 2, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            BTW- The "I Am Always With You"
            slogan can, also, be applied to
            those loved ones who are currently
            with us, as well as, to those who
            are no longer with us... just as
            it is applied to a mahanta/god
            or anyone. Klemp's nobody special.

            If other Souls (loved ones) can
            always be with us then why is
            this a special slogan? HK's no
            more "with" ECKists than their
            loved ones are whether living
            or dead. Yet, Klemp gets away
            with saying, I Am Always With
            You... Duh!



            Hello Drew,
            So true! Twit was encouraged by Gail
            to do something with the material
            he had gathered and edited.

            He then started to give lectures and
            do self-promotions by giving interviews
            and talks (intros), and began writing
            discourses and the monthly Wisdom
            Notes. When he started to make some
            money is when he created the Mahanta
            title (1969). Then the books started to
            come out and the money rolled in.

            Klemp has done the same with his
            books, CDs. tapes, pics, etc. except
            these are even more worthless than
            Twitchell's fiction. HK could never
            write a Shariyat or finish the 12 book
            series, but that doesn't, apparently,
            seem to bother Klemp's followers
            since the money is still rolling in.
            From the look of HK's tan at this
            past 2010 EK Worldwide it looks
            like he's been vacationing in the
            islands... where he probably has
            a second home.


            Drew wrote:

            I think the real meaning of " I Am Always With You"
            could also be "My Hand Is Always in Your Pocket" lol
            which is why Twitch created eckankar in the first place.....

            Prometheus wrote:

            >ECKists have replaced one "God" for another.
            >
            > Sure, they call "Him" by a different name but
            >
            > in essence it's merely a revised substitution.
            >
            >
            >
            > In ECKankar the members see themselves
            >
            > "as" Soul versus having "a" Soul. There's
            >
            > no separate identity between human and
            >
            > divine. According to ECKankar, you (we)
            >
            > are Soul and are a part of the Divine, but
            >
            > are living in a physical shell (body). And,
            >
            > there are other "bodies" that also "protect"
            >
            > Soul from the coarse "vibrations" of the
            >
            > "Lower" Planes. Therefore, everyone's true
            >
            > identity is that of Being... a Divine Soul.
            >
            > It just "IS." Personally, I think that much
            >
            > of this needed "protection" for Soul is B.S.,
            >
            > and Soul is not affected by "lower" vibrations.
            >
            > It's a myth!
            >
            >
            >
            > Klemp likes to say, "I Am Always With You"
            >
            > when he signs off.
            >
            >
            >
            > But what does this really mean? Eckists seem
            >
            > to have an identity crisis since they are constantly
            >
            > being separated from their identity as Soul
            >
            > via Klemp's dogma involving his rank above
            >
            > them and all other Souls.
            >
            >
            >
            > Soul is a Divine part of the "ECK" as is the
            >
            > Mahanta... there is actually no difference.
            >
            > And, according to EK Teachings Soul equals
            >
            > Soul. This means that Klemp is No Higher or
            >
            > more valued than any other Soul. But, is this
            >
            > the case? Not quite. With Klemp it's an Ego
            >
            > thing and he needs to be the Top Dog on both
            >
            > the outer and inner. Twitchell started this myth.
            >
            > In reality, on the "inner," HK's equal to all
            >
            > other Souls, and he hates this truth. Souls started
            >
            > out being equal until PT switched it around with
            >
            > the "Mahanta" concept in 1969. Being both a LEM
            >
            > and a Mahanta is a flawed concept but Twitchell
            >
            > needed to be the Top Dog as Klemp does. Basically,
            >
            > it's a Bait and Switch!
            >
            >
            >
            > All Souls are Always With one another. Right?
            >
            > I really don't buy the "plane" thing with the
            >
            > numbers and the judgment and the homework
            >
            > and the tests and of separating Soul in classes
            >
            > like wheat from the chaff etc. It doesn't make
            >
            > sense in this day and age. When EKies speak
            >
            > about "the Sugmad Worlds," or whatever, why
            >
            > do they accept old hearsay versions from invisible/
            >
            > living Masters who are hundreds and thousands
            >
            > of years old. It's immature mental plane fantasy!
            >
            >
            >
            > Each Soul is as much of the "I AM" as any other
            >
            > Soul. In actuality, there are No initiations and
            >
            > rankings in the God Worlds. Really, how can it
            >
            > be? Initiations can't exist and neither can gender!
            >
            > If anything, there should only be 4 initiations.
            >
            > Therefore there are no male or female ECK Masters
            >
            > nor images i.e. drawings/photos. Every Soul
            >
            > is a Master. Its human counterpart needs
            >
            > to recognize this and and live it.
            >
            >
            >
            > BTW, Women are the equals of Men and should
            >
            > be treated as such, and Soul is the equal to
            >
            > every other Soul and should be treated as such.
            >
            >
            >
            > Limitations are both recognized and created
            >
            > by the finite mind for/by itself, naturally. Even
            >
            > the imagination has limitations. It's really too
            >
            > bad when I hear and see longtime H.I.s parrot
            >
            > the, "I Am Always With You" idiom. They must
            >
            > be tired of thinking and, therefore, just repeat
            >
            > the old words and phrases that have stuck in
            >
            > their memories.
            >
            >
            >
            > Sure, it's kind of touchy and feely and sounds
            >
            > like a mystical and/or religious promise of
            >
            > sorts. I guess it's supposed to reenforce hope
            >
            > and the belief that the "Mahanta" (God) is always
            >
            > there standing in the wings and looking after
            >
            > you. It doesn't happen of course but it feels
            >
            > good to think that someone cares and has your
            >
            > back just in case the worst happens (as it
            >
            > eventually will). Those imaginative EK heavens
            >
            > are awaiting and that feels good. That's why
            >
            > religions work so well and are so popular with
            >
            > people. But, that's part of the problem too.
            >
            >
            >
            > BTW, why aren't H.I.s "Always With You?"
            >
            > According to Klemp in his "Autobiography"
            >
            > (pg. 385) "God" is of the 4th Mental Plane
            >
            > but does all kinds of Miracles, etc. H.I.s are
            >
            > "Higher" than this "God" so why can't these
            >
            > H.I.s "Always Be With You" or "With" one
            >
            > another? A lie is not a paradox! ECK "stories"
            >
            > are mental plane experiences coming from
            >
            > this same 4th plane "God" (Kal) source.
            >
            >
            >
            > Soul equals Soul means that we are all the
            >
            > same and, yet, unique. Klemp has stolen
            >
            > Soul's equality, identity, and uniqueness
            >
            > and ECKists haven't noticed. I pity them
            >
            > with their delusions, but then again, I can
            >
            > understand why many have found solace
            >
            > in religion and on running on auto pilot.
            >
            > I just can't understand why those H.I.s
            >
            > who appear to have more going for them,
            >
            > or seem to be stronger and more astute
            >
            > continue to play Klemp's game and live
            >
            > their lives under his shadow with so many
            >
            > "spiritual" restraints and delusions. Maybe
            >
            > for many of those working at the ESC it's
            >
            > simply job security to play the game.
            >
            > That's what Klemp did with Darwin.
            >
            >
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
          • etznab@aol.com
            The guru always with you paradigm, I believe that was old hat during the time of Julian Johnson in the 1930s. In other words, what surfaced in Eckankar dogma
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 2, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              The guru always with you paradigm, I believe that was
              old hat during the time of Julian Johnson in the 1930s.
              In other words, what surfaced in Eckankar dogma as
              "I am always with you" was not a novel creation. IMO.

              The way Julian Johnson wrote in his book The Path of
              the Masters, it was my impression that he idolized the
              "living master" paradigm. And if it's true what was said
              about Paul Twitchell writing his guru Kirpal Singh for a
              number of years, I believe Paul was keen on promoting
              the importance of a living master ("guru") as well.

              I've often tried to discover where the idolization of one
              single master at a time (as representative God) arose
              in human history. It probably goes back to Jesus and
              even before that.

              The purpose for a living master, as I understand it, is
              for having a way to update the spiritual teachings. Yet
              common sense tells me that every single individual is
              at liberty to update spiritual teachings as well, with the
              truth! Appointing one person as top dog, however, and
              one who's word trump's that of all others would only be
              nice if that person was truly enlightened more than all
              other persons. If they are not, however, and if they go
              about adding fictions & pseudo religion / history to the
              spiritual teachings, it can cause a serious problem, in
              my opinion. Especially if the fictions and pseudo man-
              made religion / history are propagated as literal truth.
              Why would a master / guru do that? I can surmise it
              basically says that human consciousness is limited
              and most gurus / masters are simply playing the part
              of God. LIke as if there were a costume children could
              go dress on Halloween as. But most masters look and
              are as human as anybody else and there is no special
              costume. The "costumes" are the "titles", IMO, that
              other people associate as the designations of spiritual
              hierarchy. Popes, Bishops, Priests, Pastors, Masters
              and Gurus's etc. Putting "The" in front of the title Living
              Master gives people the sense of "there can be only
              one", IMO. Deriving credibility via guru lineage for the
              living guru, after using fictional characters to animate
              such lineage is unpardonable, IMO. It's not only with
              the Eckankar dogma, but other paths have fabricated
              their own lineages just as well. Including additions of
              pseudo man-made religion / history. It's a "red flag" to
              discover such things about one's own religious organ-
              ization. Even more difficult is having to rationalize why
              it's OK for masters and clergy to not come clean with
              the truth. What are they thinking?

              Etznab

              -----Original Message-----
              From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Mon, Nov 1, 2010 9:35 pm
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] "I Am Always With You" - The Real
              Meaning

               
              ECKists have replaced one "God" for another.
              Sure, they call "Him" by a different name but
              in essence it's merely a revised substitution.

              In ECKankar the members see themselves
              "as" Soul versus having "a" Soul. There's
              no separate identity between human and
              divine. According to ECKankar, you (we)
              are Soul and are a part of the Divine, but
              are living in a physical shell (body). And,
              there are other "bodies" that also "protect"
              Soul from the coarse "vibrations" of the
              "Lower" Planes. Therefore, everyone's true
              identity is that of Being... a Divine Soul.
              It just "IS." Personally, I think that much
              of this needed "protection" for Soul is B.S.,
              and Soul is not affected by "lower" vibrations.
              It's a myth!

              Klemp likes to say, "I Am Always With You"
              when he signs off.

              But what does this really mean? Eckists seem
              to have an identity crisis since they are constantly
              being separated from their identity as Soul
              via Klemp's dogma involving his rank above
              them and all other Souls.

              Soul is a Divine part of the "ECK" as is the
              Mahanta... there is actually no difference.
              And, according to EK Teachings Soul equals
              Soul. This means that Klemp is No Higher or
              more valued than any other Soul. But, is this
              the case? Not quite. With Klemp it's an Ego
              thing and he needs to be the Top Dog on both
              the outer and inner. Twitchell started this myth.
              In reality, on the "inner," HK's equal to all
              other Souls, and he hates this truth. This isn't
              the reality with how PT created the ECK teachings
              and how they are practiced. Being a LEM/Mahanta
              is a flawed concept because Twitchell needed
              to be the Top Dog as Klemp does. Basically, it's
              a Bait and Switch!

              All Souls are Always With one another. Right?
              I really don't buy the "plane" thing with the
              numbers and the judgment and the homework
              and the tests and of separating Soul in classes
              like wheat from the chaff etc. It doesn't make
              sense in this day and age. When EKies speak
              about "the Sugmad Worlds," or whatever, why
              do they accept old hearsay versions from invisible/
              living Masters who are hundreds and thousands
              of years old. It's immature mental plane fantasy!

              Each Soul is as much of the "I AM" as any other
              Soul. In actuality, there are No initiations and
              rankings in the God Worlds. Really, how can it
              be? Initiations can't exist and neither can gender!
              If anything, there should only be 4 initiations.
              Therefore there are no male or female ECK Masters
              nor images i.e. drawings/photos. Every Soul
              is a Master. Its human counterpart needs
              to recognize this and and live it.

              BTW, Women are the equals of Men and should
              be treated as such, and Soul is the equal to
              every other Soul and should be treated as such.

              Limitations are both recognized and created
              by the finite mind for/by itself, naturally. Even
              the imagination has limitations. It's really too
              bad when I hear and see longtime H.I.s parrot
              the, "I Am Always With You" idiom. They must
              be tired of thinking and, therefore, just repeat
              the old words and phrases that have stuck in
              their memories.

              Sure, it's kind of touchy and feely and sounds
              like a mystical and/or religious promise of
              sorts. I guess it's supposed to reenforce hope
              and the belief that the "Mahanta" (God) is always
              there standing in the wings and looking after
              you. It doesn't happen of course but it feels
              good to think that someone cares and has your
              back just in case the worst happens (as it
              eventually will). Those imaginative EK heavens
              are awaiting and that feels good. That's why
              religions work so well and are so popular with
              people. But, that's part of the problem too.

              BTW, why aren't H.I.s "Always With You?"
              According to Klemp in his "Autobiography"
              (pg. 385) "God" is of the 4th Mental Plane
              but does all kinds of Miracles, etc. H.I.s are
              "Higher" than this "God" so why can't these
              H.I.s "Always Be With You" or "With" one
              another? A lie is not a paradox! ECK "stories"
              are mental plane experiences coming from
              this same 4th plane "God" (Kal) source.

              Soul equals Soul means that we are all the
              same and, yet, unique. Klemp has stolen
              Soul's equality, identity, and uniqueness
              and ECKists haven't noticed. I pity them
              with their delusions, but then again, I can
              understand why many have found solace
              in religion and on running on auto pilot.
              I just can't understand why those H.I.s
              who appear to have more going for them,
              or seem to be stronger and more astute
              continue to play Klemp's game and live
              their lives under his shadow with so many
              "spiritual" restraints and delusions. Maybe
              for many of those working at the ESC it's
              simply job security to play the game.
              That's what Klemp did with Darwin.

              Prometheus
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Etznab, I agree with you. The reason I approached the ECK version of I Am Always With You from this other perspective of Soul, and in regard to dead
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 3, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Etznab,
                I agree with you. The reason I approached
                the ECK version of "I Am Always With You"
                from this other perspective of Soul, and
                in regard to dead loved ones, is that I saw
                a very highly respected ECKist use it both
                ways. She spouts the Mahanta crap and
                then applies the same I Am Always You
                to her dead loved ones being Always With
                her and her with them.

                With ECKists this concept of "I Am Always
                With You" probably applies to pets as well.
                Perhaps the dead pets are now seen as being
                "animal angels." Actually, in ECKankar, there's
                more focus and books written about "Animal
                Angels" than on human angels (Soul)! Why's
                that? Probably because Human Angels versus
                Animal Angels would give some competition
                to Klemp and to the ECK Master myths. This
                is why the topic of (human/people) Angels
                is avoided by ECKists. In EK any human angel
                becomes a mysterious minor being or an
                ECK Master... never anything in-between
                or as a loved one who has passed. Only Klemp
                (the Mahanta) is permitted to "watch over"
                or to "assist" the living, except, he doesn't!

                The purpose of a Living Master is to have
                more and better control over the faithful.
                Otherwise, there would be a schism and
                various clerics/masters would become leaders
                based upon their ability to communicate
                and decipher/interpret their holy scriptures.
                Living Masters can interpret scripture any
                way they want and twist it to fit their agendas.
                They are no other authorities over them,
                although, there are others that could do
                a better job and are more spiritual.

                Masters/Prophets are usually the ones
                who first led/taught people a specific
                dogma. The religion was created during
                this time frame or later by their followers.
                Thus, Twitchell was the Moses, Abraham
                and Mohammad of ECKankar. Klemp is
                simply a caretaker, like the Pope, posing
                as a Master/Mahanta.

                Prometheus


                Etznab wrote:

                The guru always with you paradigm, I believe that was
                old hat during the time of Julian Johnson in the 1930s.
                In other words, what surfaced in Eckankar dogma as
                "I am always with you" was not a novel creation. IMO.

                The way Julian Johnson wrote in his book The Path of
                the Masters, it was my impression that he idolized the
                "living master" paradigm. And if it's true what was said
                about Paul Twitchell writing his guru Kirpal Singh for a
                number of years, I believe Paul was keen on promoting
                the importance of a living master ("guru") as well.

                I've often tried to discover where the idolization of one
                single master at a time (as representative God) arose
                in human history. It probably goes back to Jesus and
                even before that.

                The purpose for a living master, as I understand it, is
                for having a way to update the spiritual teachings. Yet
                common sense tells me that every single individual is
                at liberty to update spiritual teachings as well, with the
                truth! Appointing one person as top dog, however, and
                one who's word trump's that of all others would only be
                nice if that person was truly enlightened more than all
                other persons. If they are not, however, and if they go
                about adding fictions & pseudo religion / history to the
                spiritual teachings, it can cause a serious problem, in
                my opinion. Especially if the fictions and pseudo man-
                made religion / history are propagated as literal truth.
                Why would a master / guru do that? I can surmise it
                basically says that human consciousness is limited
                and most gurus / masters are simply playing the part
                of God. LIke as if there were a costume children could
                go dress on Halloween as. But most masters look and
                are as human as anybody else and there is no special
                costume. The "costumes" are the "titles", IMO, that
                other people associate as the designations of spiritual
                hierarchy. Popes, Bishops, Priests, Pastors, Masters
                and Gurus's etc. Putting "The" in front of the title Living
                Master gives people the sense of "there can be only
                one", IMO. Deriving credibility via guru lineage for the
                living guru, after using fictional characters to animate
                such lineage is unpardonable, IMO. It's not only with
                the Eckankar dogma, but other paths have fabricated
                their own lineages just as well. Including additions of
                pseudo man-made religion / history. It's a "red flag" to
                discover such things about one's own religious organ-
                ization. Even more difficult is having to rationalize why
                it's OK for masters and clergy to not come clean with
                the truth. What are they thinking?

                Etznab

                Prometheus wrote:

                ECKists have replaced one "God" for another.
                Sure, they call "Him" by a different name but
                in essence it's merely a revised substitution.

                In ECKankar the members see themselves
                "as" Soul versus having "a" Soul. There's
                no separate identity between human and
                divine. According to ECKankar, you (we)
                are Soul and are a part of the Divine, but
                are living in a physical shell (body). And,
                there are other "bodies" that also "protect"
                Soul from the coarse "vibrations" of the
                "Lower" Planes. Therefore, everyone's true
                identity is that of Being... a Divine Soul.
                It just "IS." Personally, I think that much
                of this needed "protection" for Soul is B.S.,
                and Soul is not affected by "lower" vibrations.
                It's a myth!

                Klemp likes to say, "I Am Always With You"
                when he signs off.

                But what does this really mean? Eckists seem
                to have an identity crisis since they are constantly
                being separated from their identity as Soul
                via Klemp's dogma involving his rank above
                them and all other Souls.

                Soul is a Divine part of the "ECK" as is the
                Mahanta... there is actually no difference.
                And, according to EK Teachings Soul equals
                Soul. This means that Klemp is No Higher or
                more valued than any other Soul. But, is this
                the case? Not quite. With Klemp it's an Ego
                thing and he needs to be the Top Dog on both
                the outer and inner. Twitchell started this myth.
                In reality, on the "inner," HK's equal to all
                other Souls, and he hates this truth. This isn't
                the reality with how PT created the ECK teachings
                and how they are practiced. Being a LEM/Mahanta
                is a flawed concept because Twitchell needed
                to be the Top Dog as Klemp does. Basically, it's
                a Bait and Switch!

                All Souls are Always With one another. Right?
                I really don't buy the "plane" thing with the
                numbers and the judgment and the homework
                and the tests and of separating Soul in classes
                like wheat from the chaff etc. It doesn't make
                sense in this day and age. When EKies speak
                about "the Sugmad Worlds," or whatever, why
                do they accept old hearsay versions from invisible/
                living Masters who are hundreds and thousands
                of years old. It's immature mental plane fantasy!

                Each Soul is as much of the "I AM" as any other
                Soul. In actuality, there are No initiations and
                rankings in the God Worlds. Really, how can it
                be? Initiations can't exist and neither can gender!
                If anything, there should only be 4 initiations.
                Therefore there are no male or female ECK Masters
                nor images i.e. drawings/photos. Every Soul
                is a Master. Its human counterpart needs
                to recognize this and and live it.

                BTW, Women are the equals of Men and should
                be treated as such, and Soul is the equal to
                every other Soul and should be treated as such.

                Limitations are both recognized and created
                by the finite mind for/by itself, naturally. Even
                the imagination has limitations. It's really too
                bad when I hear and see longtime H.I.s parrot
                the, "I Am Always With You" idiom. They must
                be tired of thinking and, therefore, just repeat
                the old words and phrases that have stuck in
                their memories.

                Sure, it's kind of touchy and feely and sounds
                like a mystical and/or religious promise of
                sorts. I guess it's supposed to reenforce hope
                and the belief that the "Mahanta" (God) is always
                there standing in the wings and looking after
                you. It doesn't happen of course but it feels
                good to think that someone cares and has your
                back just in case the worst happens (as it
                eventually will). Those imaginative EK heavens
                are awaiting and that feels good. That's why
                religions work so well and are so popular with
                people. But, that's part of the problem too.

                BTW, why aren't H.I.s "Always With You?"
                According to Klemp in his "Autobiography"
                (pg. 385) "God" is of the 4th Mental Plane
                but does all kinds of Miracles, etc. H.I.s are
                "Higher" than this "God" so why can't these
                H.I.s "Always Be With You" or "With" one
                another? A lie is not a paradox! ECK "stories"
                are mental plane experiences coming from
                this same 4th plane "God" (Kal) source.

                Soul equals Soul means that we are all the
                same and, yet, unique. Klemp has stolen
                Soul's equality, identity, and uniqueness
                and ECKists haven't noticed. I pity them
                with their delusions, but then again, I can
                understand why many have found solace
                in religion and on running on auto pilot.
                I just can't understand why those H.I.s
                who appear to have more going for them,
                or seem to be stronger and more astute
                continue to play Klemp's game and live
                their lives under his shadow with so many
                "spiritual" restraints and delusions. Maybe
                for many of those working at the ESC it's
                simply job security to play the game.
                That's what Klemp did with Darwin.

                Prometheus
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