Klemp: "Both Can Be Positive"
- In the June 2010 Mystic World
Ask the Master is this Q&A by
an Unknown ECKist:
Q: "In your story of the ecotour
guide from your 2008 talk "The
Tensions of Living," YOU GIVE
PERMISSION to invite seekers
on the inner (or that is how
I understood it).
And I have been doing that. For
me, it seems like I am opening
my heart with this inner invitation."
[P]: Why do ECKists need permission
from Klemp for doing the obvious
or for doing anything? Are they
that afraid and unsure? Yes! And
if they aren't Klemp will get them
back on track!
Besides, this is an old technique
(inviting non-ECKists via the inner).
But, it doesn't work! Most Satsang
Societies have always had poor
newcomer attendance results.
If Klemp was a true Mahanta/God
he would be bringing them in.
But, look at the number of Newcomers
at any ECK Worldwide Seminar
(about 100 or so people and
many of these are repeats or
relatives). Whose fault is that?
Plus, this "feeling" that comes
about by opening the Astral
Heart Charka is normal/natural
when one becomes introspective
"In the June 2007 Mystic World,
you write that "the inner is for
the inner, and the outer is for
Can you help me understand?
Is it an opening of my heart?"
[P] First, the "inner" is Not for the
inner only and the "outer" is not
for the outer only. According to
EK dogma doesn't the Astral,
Causal, and Mental Planes all
function as both Outer and Inner?
Isn't this true of the consciousness
from higher planes as well? However,
I have to admit that these "Planes"
with numbers and names, rulers,
etc. seem like just another religious
trap with imagined/mental fantasies.
I do feel sorry for this young,
naive, and confused ECKist having
to ask Klemp for an ekplanation
and doing so via a snail-mail letter.
Apparently Klemp feels the need
to share his correspondence/instructions
with other equally confused ECKists
via the Outer versus the Inner.
Klemp's answer [my caps and bracketed
"The first [the 2008 talk] opens a door,
while the second [the 2007 article] addresses
the Restrictions that Some would Impose
Both can be positive."
[Recap: 2008 talk, permission given to
invite people on the inner; 2007 article,
inner is inner, outer is outer.]
[P]: Is everyone just a bit confused?
Is it that "both" the "outer" and "inner"
can be "positive" as well? Plus, isn't
being "positive" a lower plane desire
and perspective since one is not being
neutral? Aren't ECKists supposed to
be neutral and detached versus seeking
Why do ECKists need to invite people
on the inner? Let Spirit (the ECK) do
it for It's Mahanta, or let the Mahanta
invite them! Isn't inviting newcomers
on the inner just another form of prayer
and of manipulating people on a psychic
Klemp: "However, the misuse of the
second is more common. In this, an
individual generally acts mainly on the
outer, saying in effect, to another,
'I got this on the inner that you should...'
It is a control factor."
[P]: So having ECKists get specific "outer"
instructions from Klemp for what they
can and can't do on both the Outer and
the Inner Planes isn't "a control factor?"
Klemp: "The speaker is posing as a
demigod, at the expense of another.
It is like saying, 'I have a direct line
to the Mahanta; you don't. Not to
worry, though. I'll be your go-between
with the Master.' Call it Black Magic,
for that is all it is."
[P]: Apparently Klemp is the only one
qualified to be a "demigod." LOL!
See, this is what religion does. There
always has to be a "go-between" for
Soul and/or Spirit/God. And, see how
Klemp throws out the term "Black Magic"
to scare, threaten and control those
ECKists who are discovering their own
divinity outside of HK's religious confines.
Klemp: "The first surely demonstrates
an opening of your heart. You are
extending an invitation for a guest
to visit your home, and the recipient
feels free to accept or to reject it."
[P]: Apparently the ECK Law of Non-
interference doesn't apply to Vahanas
or to bringing in newcomers ($$$).
True, people can reject the invitation
but aren't they influenced and tricked
unjustly and covertly (and without
permission) in their dreams on the
BTW- Why doesn't the All Knowing
and All Powerful Mahanta do his part?
Is it because of HK's Catch-22 rule
that failure and low turnouts can only
be blamed on others for their lack of:
faith; belief; trust, consciousness; or
for some other wrong doing?
The Teflon Mahanta (Klemp) always
seems to escape responsibility.
Hello Jonathan and All,
This H.I., Jeff MacHammer, needed an Arahata
Training refresher course. One does not add
to or correct a person who is sharing views/
opinions, especially, at an EWS. Yes, being
neither for nor against nor positive/negative
sounds good but is impractical because we
live in the lower worlds and read lower world
materials (ECK crap too) and think lower world
thoughts (this is the "testing ground for Soul")
and all of it is both pos. and neg.... so what!
But for some reason H.I.s think they are
above it all. What good old Jeff said was
more negative (Astral) than the positive
perspective the Nigerian(?) Eckist was sharing.
I'm going to give you another example of how Eckankar enforces it's
teachings on its members and does not allow them to do their own thing
or suggest things that they found useful.
This happened at the Annandale, Virginia, Eck center in the early
2000s. This Eck center held their worship services with the theater
seating in a fairly large room, bigger than most Eck centers that I
have been to. They had the standard procedure of an Eckist giving a
talk to the attendees. Then there was an opportunity for people to ask
questions or comment. There was a higher initiate named Jeff
MacHammer. During the worship services, he would sit in the right rear
of the room. His eyes would normally be closed while he was listening
to the discussion that transpired. On the surface of things a really
nice guy. However, there was something a little bit more nefarious
going on with him as he quietly sat at the back of the room.
I remember clearly one Sunday when I attended. During the discussion
period, a black man from Africa. possibly Nigerian, but he could have
been from any of the countries in sub-Sahara Africa, made a comment,
actually a suggestion. A very nice gentleman. He was very exited about
sharing something that was really helping him. So he volunteered his
view that he had been having a lot of good results by using positive
affirmations. He said that they were really helping him.
Well, Jeff MacHammer, upon hearing this, arose from his apparent
slumber, and made some comments. Now I am not going to paint Jeff in
the wrong light. His comments were stated nicely. He was not rude. He
was not overbearing. But his purpose was obvious even to me at that
Jeff stated something about how positive affirmations were only at the
level of the mind. Then he stated that in Eckankar, one should work
from the soul level. I don't remember all the details of what he said,
but he said at least said that much. So this poor gentleman from
Africa, who had just had all the air let out of his honest
recommendation to others, now must have felt very unappreciated.
So what really happened here?
1. An Eckists in a worship service made a recommendation based on his
having good results with a technique not tacitly approved by Eckankar.
2. A higher initiate of Eckankar sitting in the back of the room, and
obviously playing the role of the Nazi-like enforcer of all things
proper to Eckankar" tells the man "You are only functioning from the
mental plane. You should instead be functioning from the soul plane.
That's the Eckankar way."
3. So the man who made the suggestion is now possibly saying to
himself "That's the last time I ever speak up and make a positive
suggestion to people." Or "Next time I'll make sure that whatever I
say has been previously approved by Harold Klemp."
My view is this. If the man from Africa was having good results, then
why not let him stand up and tell others without being slammed down by
the Nazi-like enforcer Jeff MacHammer who was obviously there to do
just exactly what he did? To me the reason is obvious. This is just
another example of how Eckankar enforces its belief system on its
members. And the enforcement is total. Members of Eckankar can't do
things "their own way." Not if their way is seriously out of step with
Eckankar's rigid platform.
And what is wrong with letting that African man speak his thoughts,
and then letting the people in the room make up their own minds about
whether his suggestion is good or not?
Eckists will no doubt counter "Well, this was a worship service, and
maybe there was a new person there, and that new person would get an
inaccurate view of the Eck teachings."
My reply to that is "Then just don't let anyone from the audience make
comments or suggestions. If they really aren't allowed to speak their
honest opinion then what is the purpose? If they can't speak their own
opinion without being shot down by one of Eckankar's enforcers the
whole thing is just a farce." The Eckists will contend "We Eckists have a
and answer and comments period. You're just not allowed to say anything that
counters the Eck teachings." It's not free speech, so just stop the
farce. Make it like a Christian worship service. No questions or
comments, and just let the sheeple go along with whatever the priests/
mahdis tell them."
One more thing, Eckists are probably going to say "You said Jeff was
nice, but then you also said that Jeff slammed the guy down. That seem like an
inconsistency" The fact is, this is often how Eckankar works. On the surface of
things everything appears nice and happy. But behind this nice exterior is the
harsh reality of what is really going on. That is why I intentionally used the
contrasting words to describe Jeff's actions. I was looking at the surface as
opposed to what was really going on.
There is way too much Nazi-like enforcement of rules in Eckankar.
Note to ESA members: I just posted this over at a.r.e. It seemed to be relevant
to this message board so I decided to cross-post it here.