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Re: Jeff the "Nazi-like enforcer" at the worship service

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Jonathan and All, I d like to comment on the additional thoughts you had concerning this H.I. and spiritual fraud under Klemp s rule. jonathan wrote:
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 30, 2010
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      Hello Jonathan and All,
      I'd like to comment on the additional
      thoughts you had concerning this H.I.
      and spiritual fraud under Klemp's rule.

      jonathan wrote:
      All,

      I have some interesting additional thoughts on the "enforcer" at the Eck center.

      Point 1
      One of the things that bothers me about people like Jeff MacHammer
      is that he is nice and appeasing on the surface, but underneath is the
      the true intentions of Eckankar. His purpose in being at the worship
      service is to enforce the Klemp-based version of Eckankar. It is very
      disconcerting to me.


      [P]: Jeff was out of line and I would have had a talk
      with him and notified his RESA even though I was
      not an H.I. of that Satsang Society. If not convinced
      that his RESA was receptive to what I had to say I
      would have notified my RESA. It sounds like he was
      either the Spiritual Services Coordinator or the Local
      Director of that area.



      Point 2
      And please remember one thing. The purpose of the worship service is to suck new
      people into Eckankar. In 2008 there was a meeting for the Eck membership at my
      local Eck center which was an open discussion about the future operations of the
      Eck center. The question was whether the worship services should be four times a
      month or two times a month. I said "In order to answer that question I need to
      know whether the worship service is for members or new people." She replied "new
      people." I'm not sure she was the director of the Eck center, but she was in
      charge of the meeting.


      [P]: Well, usually the EWS is once per month because
      it is for new people and there aren't that many "new
      people" that show up. Plus, the troops get spread
      rather thin. Four times per month requires how many
      clerics? Plus, the topics need to be approved in advance
      and there needs to be advance/lead time for publicity
      for newspapers, postering, and for the ECK Newsletter.
      Also, while all of this is going on, with the EWS, there
      are Book Discussions, Intros, Workshops, Satsang Classes,
      HU Chants, Open Houses, Roundtables, and all kinds
      of other promotions etc. going on and being planned.
      These also drain volunteer resources, as well as, time
      and money. It's too much and failure turns people off.
      On the other hand... why do ECKists fail when their
      Mahanta is leading the way?



      So how does this apply to my story about the "enforcer" at the Eck center. Most
      members of Eckankar have no idea that the worship service is for newcomers; they
      think it is for the membership. The African man with the "unapproved" suggestion
      was no doubt thinking that. So he probably thought he could make a suggestion
      without it becoming a big problem. But Jeff MacHammer, the enforcer, was there
      to make sure that any new people would not get an erroneous view of Eckankar so
      he had to correct the man and tell him that this is not how Eckankar does
      things.


      [P]: I always saw the EWS as being two fold.
      The primary purpose was to bring those church
      shopping metaphysical types into the EK fold,
      but it was also to reorient those disenfranchised
      ECKists back to the EK teachings via the local,
      friendly, ECK Center.



      Point 3
      It appears to me that the introduction of the worship service by Klemp seems to
      have been a move to discontinue the standard "Introductory Lecture," moving it
      instead to the Eck center, while at the same time creating the erroneous
      impression to newcomers that this was a "worship service for members of
      Eckankar." Newcomers think that the worship service is truly what Eckankar is
      all about. In fact, it is a carefully crafted "appearance" whose main purpose is
      to NOT turn off newcomers (potential new members of Eckankar). I always wondered
      why after the worship services were started by Klemp that Eckankar now seemed
      like "Eckankar for dummies." I just explained the reason why. The purpose of the
      worship services has always been to bring new people into Eckankar. The purpose
      is not to serve the membership of Eckankar.


      [P]: Klemp, unintentionally, loses the similar minded
      metaphysical group of seekers with his Church like
      approach (and jargon) to PT's EK Teachings.


      Point 4
      Now that the introductory lecture had been moved to the Eck center, Eckankar's
      emphasis in the public talks that took place in libraries and Barnes and Noble
      was "Dreams." A topic that was much less likely to offend newcomers to Eckankar.


      [P] Past lives, dreams, and Soul travel are
      interesting topics. However, it s/b "spiritual"
      dreams rather than merely "dreams." Anyone
      and everyone dreams, but how many are
      "spiritual?" And, what is a "spiritual" dream?
      Aren't true seekers looking for the Spiritual?
      What Klemp gives them, after 28 years, is just
      more of the mundane... same o same o.
      BTW- Who was it that said, "religion is just
      imagining that your God is greater." The irony
      is that when Klemp gave the "My God is Bigger"
      lecture is that it's true for ECKists too! They
      just can't admit it or they're too close to it
      to see the Truth.




      Point 5
      I remember very clearly in my early days in Eckankar (1979-1983) that the first
      three discourses were Satsang 1, 2, and 3. at some point during Klemp's tenure,
      things were changed so that the first discourse was "Dreams." So even the
      ordering of the discourses was following the same plane to present dreams to
      outsiders and even the newest members of Eckankar first. All so they really
      didn't even know what Eckankar was really about until they had been a member for
      over a year or two. Eckankar probably figured that by then, that it had probably
      become a habit for them, and they were unlikely to quit.


      [P]: I think that the Easy Way was in there too and
      one had a choice to start with either Dreams or the
      Easy Way. It is part of the indoctrination as is making
      it "secretive." Also, making it "secretive" makes it
      sound special and authentic. However, there is a
      more sinister use for this rule/law. It is the beginning
      use of a control technique and of keeping "silent"
      (silence). The unsuspecting/trusting/naive student/
      seeker is tricked. One is told that he/she cannot share
      info from the Discourse, unless, they are in that particular
      Satsang class. Thus, early on, ECKists are programmed
      to follow orders or be ostracized and Black Listed
      on Initiations and Satsang Positions.


      Point 6
      So the purpose of the worship service is to fool newcomers. Newcomers show up
      and are fooled into thinking that "This is really Eckankar." Members show up
      and are constantly wondering "Why is the worship service so dummied down?"


      [P]: Well, the EK members of the Satsang Society
      do get to socialize with one another and reenforce
      their beliefs. Plus, it a good training ground for
      those needing to have small and large group
      facilitation experience, as well as, public speaking
      experience with a (usually) friendly, forgiving,
      crowd. And it's a chance to evaluate those lone
      wolves that show up every blue moon and to maybe
      bring them, or accept them, back into the pack.

      Therefore, the lack of spiritual substance is over-
      looked. Besides, Soul is on It's own individual
      path... right? So Eckankar is mainly to achieve
      good Karma (via works... inflow/outflow) and
      to have HK give you Inner Guidance on the Higher
      Planes... but mainly for the slight chance to
      get another Outer Initiation that equates to an
      Inner Initiation... or so it's said and promised
      by Twitchell... a proven liar!




      Jonathan


      "jonathan wrote:
      >
      > I'm going to give you another example of how Eckankar enforces it's
      > teachings on its members and does not allow them to do their own thing
      > or suggest things that they found useful.
      >
      > This happened at the Annandale, Virginia, Eck center in the early
      > 2000s. This Eck center held their worship services with the theater
      > seating in a fairly large room, bigger than most Eck centers that I
      > have been to. They had the standard procedure of an Eckist giving a
      > talk to the attendees. Then there was an opportunity for people to ask
      > questions or comment. There was a higher initiate named Jeff
      > MacHammer. During the worship services, he would sit in the right rear
      > of the room. His eyes would normally be closed while he was listening
      > to the discussion that transpired. On the surface of things a really
      > nice guy. However, there was something a little bit more nefarious
      > going on with him as he quietly sat at the back of the room.
      >
      > I remember clearly one Sunday when I attended. During the discussion
      > period, a black man from Africa. possibly Nigerian, but he could have
      > been from any of the countries in sub-Sahara Africa, made a comment,
      > actually a suggestion. A very nice gentleman. He was very exited about
      > sharing something that was really helping him. So he volunteered his
      > view that he had been having a lot of good results by using positive
      > affirmations. He said that they were really helping him.
      >
      > Well, Jeff MacHammer, upon hearing this, arose from his apparent
      > slumber, and made some comments. Now I am not going to paint Jeff in
      > the wrong light. His comments were stated nicely. He was not rude. He
      > was not overbearing. But his purpose was obvious even to me at that
      > time.
      >
      > Jeff stated something about how positive affirmations were only at the
      > level of the mind. Then he stated that in Eckankar, one should work
      > from the soul level. I don't remember all the details of what he said,
      > but he said at least said that much. So this poor gentleman from
      > Africa, who had just had all the air let out of his honest
      > recommendation to others, now must have felt very unappreciated.
      >
      > So what really happened here?
      > 1. An Eckists in a worship service made a recommendation based on his
      > having good results with a technique not tacitly approved by Eckankar.
      > 2. A higher initiate of Eckankar sitting in the back of the room, and
      > obviously playing the role of the Nazi-like enforcer of all things
      > proper to Eckankar" tells the man "You are only functioning from the
      > mental plane. You should instead be functioning from the soul plane.
      > That's the Eckankar way."
      > 3. So the man who made the suggestion is now possibly saying to
      > himself "That's the last time I ever speak up and make a positive
      > suggestion to people." Or "Next time I'll make sure that whatever I
      > say has been previously approved by Harold Klemp."
      >
      > My view is this. If the man from Africa was having good results, then
      > why not let him stand up and tell others without being slammed down by
      > the Nazi-like enforcer Jeff MacHammer who was obviously there to do
      > just exactly what he did? To me the reason is obvious. This is just
      > another example of how Eckankar enforces its belief system on its
      > members. And the enforcement is total. Members of Eckankar can't do
      > things "their own way." Not if their way is seriously out of step with
      > Eckankar's rigid platform.
      >
      > And what is wrong with letting that African man speak his thoughts,
      > and then letting the people in the room make up their own minds about
      > whether his suggestion is good or not?
      >
      > Eckists will no doubt counter "Well, this was a worship service, and
      > maybe there was a new person there, and that new person would get an
      > inaccurate view of the Eck teachings."
      >
      > My reply to that is "Then just don't let anyone from the audience make
      > comments or suggestions. If they really aren't allowed to speak their
      > honest opinion then what is the purpose? If they can't speak their own
      > opinion without being shot down by one of Eckankar's enforcers the
      > whole thing is just a farce." The Eckists will contend "We Eckists have a
      question
      > and answer and comments period. You're just not allowed to say anything that
      > counters the Eck teachings." It's not free speech, so just stop the
      > farce. Make it like a Christian worship service. No questions or
      > comments, and just let the sheeple go along with whatever the priests/
      > mahdis tell them."
      >
      > One more thing, Eckists are probably going to say "You said Jeff was
      > nice, but then you also said that Jeff slammed the guy down. That seem like an
      inconsistency" The fact is, this is often how Eckankar works. On the surface of
      things everything appears nice and happy. But behind this nice exterior is the
      harsh reality of what is really going on. That is why I intentionally used the
      contrasting words to describe Jeff's actions. I was looking at the surface as
      opposed to what was really going on.
      >
      > There is way too much Nazi-like enforcement of rules in Eckankar.
      >
      > Jonathan
      >
      > -----------------------------------------
      >
      > Note to ESA members: I just posted this over at a.r.e. It seemed to be
      relevant
      > to this message board so I decided to cross-post it here.
      >
    • prometheus_973
      In the June 2010 Mystic World Ask the Master is this Q&A by an Unknown ECKist: Q: In your story of the ecotour guide from your 2008 talk The Tensions of
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 6, 2010
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        In the June 2010 Mystic World
        Ask the Master is this Q&A by
        an Unknown ECKist:

        Q: "In your story of the ecotour
        guide from your 2008 talk "The
        Tensions of Living," YOU GIVE
        PERMISSION to invite seekers
        on the inner (or that is how
        I understood it).

        And I have been doing that. For
        me, it seems like I am opening
        my heart with this inner invitation."

        [P]: Why do ECKists need permission
        from Klemp for doing the obvious
        or for doing anything? Are they
        that afraid and unsure? Yes! And
        if they aren't Klemp will get them
        back on track!

        Besides, this is an old technique
        (inviting non-ECKists via the inner).
        But, it doesn't work! Most Satsang
        Societies have always had poor
        newcomer attendance results.
        If Klemp was a true Mahanta/God
        he would be bringing them in.
        But, look at the number of Newcomers
        at any ECK Worldwide Seminar
        (about 100 or so people and
        many of these are repeats or
        relatives). Whose fault is that?
        Never Klemp's!

        Plus, this "feeling" that comes
        about by opening the Astral
        Heart Charka is normal/natural
        when one becomes introspective
        and empathetic.

        Q (cont.):
        "In the June 2007 Mystic World,
        you write that "the inner is for
        the inner, and the outer is for
        the outer."

        Can you help me understand?
        Is it an opening of my heart?"

        [P] First, the "inner" is Not for the
        inner only and the "outer" is not
        for the outer only. According to
        EK dogma doesn't the Astral,
        Causal, and Mental Planes all
        function as both Outer and Inner?
        Isn't this true of the consciousness
        from higher planes as well? However,
        I have to admit that these "Planes"
        with numbers and names, rulers,
        etc. seem like just another religious
        trap with imagined/mental fantasies.

        I do feel sorry for this young,
        naive, and confused ECKist having
        to ask Klemp for an ekplanation
        and doing so via a snail-mail letter.
        Apparently Klemp feels the need
        to share his correspondence/instructions
        with other equally confused ECKists
        via the Outer versus the Inner.

        Klemp's answer [my caps and bracketed
        comments]:

        "The first [the 2008 talk] opens a door,
        while the second [the 2007 article] addresses
        the Restrictions that Some would Impose
        on others.

        Both can be positive."

        [Recap: 2008 talk, permission given to
        invite people on the inner; 2007 article,
        inner is inner, outer is outer.]

        [P]: Is everyone just a bit confused?
        Is it that "both" the "outer" and "inner"
        can be "positive" as well? Plus, isn't
        being "positive" a lower plane desire
        and perspective since one is not being
        neutral? Aren't ECKists supposed to
        be neutral and detached versus seeking
        "positive" outcomes?

        Why do ECKists need to invite people
        on the inner? Let Spirit (the ECK) do
        it for It's Mahanta, or let the Mahanta
        invite them! Isn't inviting newcomers
        on the inner just another form of prayer
        and of manipulating people on a psychic
        level?

        Klemp: "However, the misuse of the
        second is more common. In this, an
        individual generally acts mainly on the
        outer, saying in effect, to another,
        'I got this on the inner that you should...'
        It is a control factor."

        [P]: So having ECKists get specific "outer"
        instructions from Klemp for what they
        can and can't do on both the Outer and
        the Inner Planes isn't "a control factor?"

        Klemp: "The speaker is posing as a
        demigod, at the expense of another.
        It is like saying, 'I have a direct line
        to the Mahanta; you don't. Not to
        worry, though. I'll be your go-between
        with the Master.' Call it Black Magic,
        for that is all it is."

        [P]: Apparently Klemp is the only one
        qualified to be a "demigod." LOL!
        See, this is what religion does. There
        always has to be a "go-between" for
        Soul and/or Spirit/God. And, see how
        Klemp throws out the term "Black Magic"
        to scare, threaten and control those
        ECKists who are discovering their own
        divinity outside of HK's religious confines.

        Klemp: "The first surely demonstrates
        an opening of your heart. You are
        extending an invitation for a guest
        to visit your home, and the recipient
        feels free to accept or to reject it."

        [P]: Apparently the ECK Law of Non-
        interference doesn't apply to Vahanas
        or to bringing in newcomers ($$$).
        True, people can reject the invitation
        but aren't they influenced and tricked
        unjustly and covertly (and without
        permission) in their dreams on the
        "inner?"

        BTW- Why doesn't the All Knowing
        and All Powerful Mahanta do his part?
        Is it because of HK's Catch-22 rule
        that failure and low turnouts can only
        be blamed on others for their lack of:
        faith; belief; trust, consciousness; or
        for some other wrong doing?

        The Teflon Mahanta (Klemp) always
        seems to escape responsibility.

        Prometheus



        prometheus wrote:
        Hello Jonathan and All,
        This H.I., Jeff MacHammer, needed an Arahata
        Training refresher course. One does not add
        to or correct a person who is sharing views/
        opinions, especially, at an EWS. Yes, being
        neither for nor against nor positive/negative
        sounds good but is impractical because we
        live in the lower worlds and read lower world
        materials (ECK crap too) and think lower world
        thoughts (this is the "testing ground for Soul")
        and all of it is both pos. and neg.... so what!
        But for some reason H.I.s think they are
        above it all. What good old Jeff said was
        more negative (Astral) than the positive
        perspective the Nigerian(?) Eckist was sharing.
        LOL!

        Prometheus

        jonathan wrote:
        I'm going to give you another example of how Eckankar enforces it's
        teachings on its members and does not allow them to do their own thing
        or suggest things that they found useful.

        This happened at the Annandale, Virginia, Eck center in the early
        2000s. This Eck center held their worship services with the theater
        seating in a fairly large room, bigger than most Eck centers that I
        have been to. They had the standard procedure of an Eckist giving a
        talk to the attendees. Then there was an opportunity for people to ask
        questions or comment. There was a higher initiate named Jeff
        MacHammer. During the worship services, he would sit in the right rear
        of the room. His eyes would normally be closed while he was listening
        to the discussion that transpired. On the surface of things a really
        nice guy. However, there was something a little bit more nefarious
        going on with him as he quietly sat at the back of the room.

        I remember clearly one Sunday when I attended. During the discussion
        period, a black man from Africa. possibly Nigerian, but he could have
        been from any of the countries in sub-Sahara Africa, made a comment,
        actually a suggestion. A very nice gentleman. He was very exited about
        sharing something that was really helping him. So he volunteered his
        view that he had been having a lot of good results by using positive
        affirmations. He said that they were really helping him.

        Well, Jeff MacHammer, upon hearing this, arose from his apparent
        slumber, and made some comments. Now I am not going to paint Jeff in
        the wrong light. His comments were stated nicely. He was not rude. He
        was not overbearing. But his purpose was obvious even to me at that
        time.

        Jeff stated something about how positive affirmations were only at the
        level of the mind. Then he stated that in Eckankar, one should work
        from the soul level. I don't remember all the details of what he said,
        but he said at least said that much. So this poor gentleman from
        Africa, who had just had all the air let out of his honest
        recommendation to others, now must have felt very unappreciated.

        So what really happened here?
        1. An Eckists in a worship service made a recommendation based on his
        having good results with a technique not tacitly approved by Eckankar.
        2. A higher initiate of Eckankar sitting in the back of the room, and
        obviously playing the role of the Nazi-like enforcer of all things
        proper to Eckankar" tells the man "You are only functioning from the
        mental plane. You should instead be functioning from the soul plane.
        That's the Eckankar way."
        3. So the man who made the suggestion is now possibly saying to
        himself "That's the last time I ever speak up and make a positive
        suggestion to people." Or "Next time I'll make sure that whatever I
        say has been previously approved by Harold Klemp."

        My view is this. If the man from Africa was having good results, then
        why not let him stand up and tell others without being slammed down by
        the Nazi-like enforcer Jeff MacHammer who was obviously there to do
        just exactly what he did? To me the reason is obvious. This is just
        another example of how Eckankar enforces its belief system on its
        members. And the enforcement is total. Members of Eckankar can't do
        things "their own way." Not if their way is seriously out of step with
        Eckankar's rigid platform.

        And what is wrong with letting that African man speak his thoughts,
        and then letting the people in the room make up their own minds about
        whether his suggestion is good or not?

        Eckists will no doubt counter "Well, this was a worship service, and
        maybe there was a new person there, and that new person would get an
        inaccurate view of the Eck teachings."

        My reply to that is "Then just don't let anyone from the audience make
        comments or suggestions. If they really aren't allowed to speak their
        honest opinion then what is the purpose? If they can't speak their own
        opinion without being shot down by one of Eckankar's enforcers the
        whole thing is just a farce." The Eckists will contend "We Eckists have a
        question
        and answer and comments period. You're just not allowed to say anything that
        counters the Eck teachings." It's not free speech, so just stop the
        farce. Make it like a Christian worship service. No questions or
        comments, and just let the sheeple go along with whatever the priests/
        mahdis tell them."

        One more thing, Eckists are probably going to say "You said Jeff was
        nice, but then you also said that Jeff slammed the guy down. That seem like an
        inconsistency" The fact is, this is often how Eckankar works. On the surface of
        things everything appears nice and happy. But behind this nice exterior is the
        harsh reality of what is really going on. That is why I intentionally used the
        contrasting words to describe Jeff's actions. I was looking at the surface as
        opposed to what was really going on.

        There is way too much Nazi-like enforcement of rules in Eckankar.

        Jonathan

        -----------------------------------------

        Note to ESA members: I just posted this over at a.r.e. It seemed to be relevant
        to this message board so I decided to cross-post it here.
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