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Ford Johnson's HCS vs Eckankar - What Ford doesn't do

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  • jonathanjohns96
    All, I was over at Amazon.com reading some of the reviews for Ford Johnson s book Confessions Of A Godseeker. A person wrote a review that I pretty much agreed
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 16, 2010
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      All,

      I was over at Amazon.com reading some of the reviews for Ford Johnson's book Confessions Of A Godseeker. A person wrote a review that I pretty much agreed with, but at the end stated that Ford wanted to make his own spiritual movement like Eckankar's. Whether they literally meant that Ford's Higher Consciousness Society resembled Eckankar is something I am not sure of. while it is true that a lot of HCS does resemble Eckankar, it also resembles the religions that Eckankar was based on. Regardless, there a lot of very important differences between Eckankar and Ford's group.

      I tried to post a follow-up comment on Amazon, but I couldn't. So I decided to put it here. Everything between the two dashed line is my comment which I would have posted over there.

      - - - - - - - - - -
      Ford did start his own "Higher Cosciousness Society" as he calls it, and it didn't impress me either. But your saying "his own spiritual movement like Eckankar" is a bit wrong. Let me explain what Ford DIDN'T do in his Higher Consciousness Society. These are all things that Eckankar DOES DO.

      Ford
      (1) did not copy other's writings and then claim them as his own
      (2) did not say "I am God realized. Follow me."
      (3) did not say "Sing HU and visualize me."
      (4) did not say "Give me your problems. I will solve them for you when you are sleeping at night."
      (5) did not say "If you leave my group, you will suffer in astral Hells until you accept me again."
      (6) does not promise that if you follow his routine that you will never have to suffer through another incarnation on Earth
      (7) does not insist that his way is better than everybody else's,
      (8) does not say that every religion in the world sprung out of his Higher Consciousness Society.
      (9) does not charge a membership fee of over $120 a year
      (10) does not spend a ton of money advertising his group. I don't think he advertizes his group at all.
      (11) does not have an "initiation routine" set up in order to keep his members preoccupied with something that has no intrinsic meaning or value.

      At the end of your comment, you also state that Eckankar's techniques are better than Ford's. I don't use either, but even if you are correct, what price do people have to pay to use Eckankar's techniques? You have to sign your life over to the present leader of Eckankar. You have to accept him as you savior. You have to promise to dedicate your life to him (that happened to me during my second initiation). Ford doesn't require anything like that.
      - - - - - - - - - -

      Everybody can feel free to add any additional differences.
    • jonathanjohns96
      I thought that I would add another comment on Ford s book. I am a former 29 year member of Eckankar. Yes, Ford was the top speaker at Eckankar seminars for
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 16, 2010
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        I thought that I would add another comment on Ford's book.

        I am a former 29 year member of Eckankar. Yes, Ford was the top speaker at Eckankar seminars for many many years. But eventually he saw through Eckankar's lies and fabrications and felt it was his responsibility to write a book correcting all the unintentional lies he had been telling people while a member. Of course, when that happened, members of Eckankar turned on him and said he was an agent for the Kal (devil), was based on the mental plane only (not spiritual), and was interested in getting rich by writing an expose about Eckankar. I know what they said because I was still a member. Funny how these same people were praising him the day before he left Eckankar. Yet he was the same heart-based individual after he left Eckankar as before he left.

        Also, there is no anger coming from Ford in his book. Stating that it is there is a tactic that members of Eckankar use to discredit Ford. I read the book; there is no anger coming from Ford. I strongly suspect that the anger is being generated by the Eckists themselves who read the book, and they lack the ability to differentiate things properly.



        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
        >
        > All,
        >
        > I was over at Amazon.com reading some of the reviews for Ford Johnson's book Confessions Of A Godseeker. A person wrote a review that I pretty much agreed with, but at the end stated that Ford wanted to make his own spiritual movement like Eckankar's. Whether they literally meant that Ford's Higher Consciousness Society resembled Eckankar is something I am not sure of. while it is true that a lot of HCS does resemble Eckankar, it also resembles the religions that Eckankar was based on. Regardless, there a lot of very important differences between Eckankar and Ford's group.
        >
        > I tried to post a follow-up comment on Amazon, but I couldn't. So I decided to put it here. Everything between the two dashed line is my comment which I would have posted over there.
        >
        > - - - - - - - - - -
        > Ford did start his own "Higher Cosciousness Society" as he calls it, and it didn't impress me either. But your saying "his own spiritual movement like Eckankar" is a bit wrong. Let me explain what Ford DIDN'T do in his Higher Consciousness Society. These are all things that Eckankar DOES DO.
        >
        > Ford
        > (1) did not copy other's writings and then claim them as his own
        > (2) did not say "I am God realized. Follow me."
        > (3) did not say "Sing HU and visualize me."
        > (4) did not say "Give me your problems. I will solve them for you when you are sleeping at night."
        > (5) did not say "If you leave my group, you will suffer in astral Hells until you accept me again."
        > (6) does not promise that if you follow his routine that you will never have to suffer through another incarnation on Earth
        > (7) does not insist that his way is better than everybody else's,
        > (8) does not say that every religion in the world sprung out of his Higher Consciousness Society.
        > (9) does not charge a membership fee of over $120 a year
        > (10) does not spend a ton of money advertising his group. I don't think he advertizes his group at all.
        > (11) does not have an "initiation routine" set up in order to keep his members preoccupied with something that has no intrinsic meaning or value.
        >
        > At the end of your comment, you also state that Eckankar's techniques are better than Ford's. I don't use either, but even if you are correct, what price do people have to pay to use Eckankar's techniques? You have to sign your life over to the present leader of Eckankar. You have to accept him as you savior. You have to promise to dedicate your life to him (that happened to me during my second initiation). Ford doesn't require anything like that.
        > - - - - - - - - - -
        >
        > Everybody can feel free to add any additional differences.
        >
      • Non
        It s been a while since I read the whole book, but I do recall feeling that the first half of the book was the best, and his discussion of religion in general.
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 16, 2010
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          It's been a while since I read the whole book, but I do recall feeling that the first half of the book was the best, and his discussion of religion in general. He also showed how the original India version, Rhada Soami was not much better or even the Sufi version from which most of the plagiarism came from. He does however, seem to believe that eckists would not leave eckankar unless they had something to take its place, and so he did try to have a big Seminar in Las Vegas and monthly on line spiritual meetings in which they would chant HUM instead of HU. Actually, now that I look at what I just wrote, maybe we should just go to an ek function and chant HMM? several times in rhythm and inflection, about 3 seconds apart. Just doing that makes me feel good and I can feel it remove any eckieguilt leftover. : ) LOL

          The problem as I see it, is that there is still too much in the direction of spiritual grandiosity. We create all that happens to us, no exceptions, and there just isn't enough of the kind of spirituality of Compassion. It's still very New Age, IMO.

          I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he is open to change and evolution of ideas as well as admitting to,"hmm, maybe that part wasn't so good or a mistake". Otherwise, it's just more dogma like.

          I'm still waiting for a Spirituality that includes a real sense of the Scientific Method. Think of how many Chemists who literally gave their lives, because their experiment blew up in their face, yet the periodic table is a pretty amazing thing. To some it may be boring, but if you take your time and get into newer theories about quantum theory and that scientists can actually take pictures of atoms and electrons, etc., well, just think about the fact that you cannot read this email without the technology utilized by chemists. And even there, they are willing to admit that their theories are just that, and creativity and change in thinking and ideas may take that technology to new levels that solve problems world wide, including Global Warming, that I doubt will be solved by positive thinking it away.

          noneckster ; )

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
          >
          > I thought that I would add another comment on Ford's book.
          >
          > I am a former 29 year member of Eckankar. Yes, Ford was the top speaker at Eckankar seminars for many many years. But eventually he saw through Eckankar's lies and fabrications and felt it was his responsibility to write a book correcting all the unintentional lies he had been telling people while a member. Of course, when that happened, members of Eckankar turned on him and said he was an agent for the Kal (devil), was based on the mental plane only (not spiritual), and was interested in getting rich by writing an expose about Eckankar. I know what they said because I was still a member. Funny how these same people were praising him the day before he left Eckankar. Yet he was the same heart-based individual after he left Eckankar as before he left.
          >
          > Also, there is no anger coming from Ford in his book. Stating that it is there is a tactic that members of Eckankar use to discredit Ford. I read the book; there is no anger coming from Ford. I strongly suspect that the anger is being generated by the Eckists themselves who read the book, and they lack the ability to differentiate things properly.
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
          > >
          > > All,
          > >
          > > I was over at Amazon.com reading some of the reviews for Ford Johnson's book Confessions Of A Godseeker. A person wrote a review that I pretty much agreed with, but at the end stated that Ford wanted to make his own spiritual movement like Eckankar's. Whether they literally meant that Ford's Higher Consciousness Society resembled Eckankar is something I am not sure of. while it is true that a lot of HCS does resemble Eckankar, it also resembles the religions that Eckankar was based on. Regardless, there a lot of very important differences between Eckankar and Ford's group.
          > >
          > > I tried to post a follow-up comment on Amazon, but I couldn't. So I decided to put it here. Everything between the two dashed line is my comment which I would have posted over there.
          > >
          > > - - - - - - - - - -
          > > Ford did start his own "Higher Cosciousness Society" as he calls it, and it didn't impress me either. But your saying "his own spiritual movement like Eckankar" is a bit wrong. Let me explain what Ford DIDN'T do in his Higher Consciousness Society. These are all things that Eckankar DOES DO.
          > >
          > > Ford
          > > (1) did not copy other's writings and then claim them as his own
          > > (2) did not say "I am God realized. Follow me."
          > > (3) did not say "Sing HU and visualize me."
          > > (4) did not say "Give me your problems. I will solve them for you when you are sleeping at night."
          > > (5) did not say "If you leave my group, you will suffer in astral Hells until you accept me again."
          > > (6) does not promise that if you follow his routine that you will never have to suffer through another incarnation on Earth
          > > (7) does not insist that his way is better than everybody else's,
          > > (8) does not say that every religion in the world sprung out of his Higher Consciousness Society.
          > > (9) does not charge a membership fee of over $120 a year
          > > (10) does not spend a ton of money advertising his group. I don't think he advertizes his group at all.
          > > (11) does not have an "initiation routine" set up in order to keep his members preoccupied with something that has no intrinsic meaning or value.
          > >
          > > At the end of your comment, you also state that Eckankar's techniques are better than Ford's. I don't use either, but even if you are correct, what price do people have to pay to use Eckankar's techniques? You have to sign your life over to the present leader of Eckankar. You have to accept him as you savior. You have to promise to dedicate your life to him (that happened to me during my second initiation). Ford doesn't require anything like that.
          > > - - - - - - - - - -
          > >
          > > Everybody can feel free to add any additional differences.
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Non and Jonathan, Interesting thread. I ve been traveling and away from the computer and just now saw these posts. I could only read about the first two-
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 17, 2010
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            Hello Non and Jonathan,
            Interesting thread. I've been traveling
            and away from the computer and just
            now saw these posts.

            I could only read about the first two-
            thirds of Ford's "Confessions" and other
            former ECKists have told me the same.
            The rest of the book didn't interest me.
            I never really found Ford's workshops
            at EK Seminars all that interesting, for
            me, because he seemed to be focused
            upon manifesting success and the talks
            seemed rather business oriented.
            However, Ford is a dynamic speaker
            and just listening to him present his
            ideas was quite interesting and enjoyable.

            Yes, I was at Ford's first HCS seminar
            and was posting on his two sites at
            one time but never did the paid membership.
            HCS wasn't a religion, but it wasn't
            something I wanted to join either.

            I'm, now, an anti-joiner, mostly, and
            when I do "join" something I certainly
            don't buy everything they sell.

            Prometheus


            "Non" wrote:
            It's been a while since I read the whole book, but I do recall feeling that the
            first half of the book was the best, and his discussion of religion in general.
            He also showed how the original India version, Rhada Soami was not much better
            or even the Sufi version from which most of the plagiarism came from. He does
            however, seem to believe that eckists would not leave eckankar unless they had
            something to take its place, and so he did try to have a big Seminar in Las
            Vegas and monthly on line spiritual meetings in which they would chant HUM
            instead of HU. Actually, now that I look at what I just wrote, maybe we should
            just go to an ek function and chant HMM? several times in rhythm and inflection,
            about 3 seconds apart. Just doing that makes me feel good and I can feel it
            remove any eckieguilt leftover. : ) LOL

            The problem as I see it, is that there is still too much in the direction of
            spiritual grandiosity. We create all that happens to us, no exceptions, and
            there just isn't enough of the kind of spirituality of Compassion. It's still
            very New Age, IMO.

            I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he is open to change and
            evolution of ideas as well as admitting to,"hmm, maybe that part wasn't so good
            or a mistake". Otherwise, it's just more dogma like.

            I'm still waiting for a Spirituality that includes a real sense of the
            Scientific Method. Think of how many Chemists who literally gave their lives,
            because their experiment blew up in their face, yet the periodic table is a
            pretty amazing thing. To some it may be boring, but if you take your time and
            get into newer theories about quantum theory and that scientists can actually
            take pictures of atoms and electrons, etc., well, just think about the fact that
            you cannot read this email without the technology utilized by chemists. And even
            there, they are willing to admit that their theories are just that, and
            creativity and change in thinking and ideas may take that technology to new
            levels that solve problems world wide, including Global Warming, that I doubt
            will be solved by positive thinking it away.

            noneckster ; )

            jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
            >
            > I thought that I would add another comment on Ford's book.
            >
            > I am a former 29 year member of Eckankar. Yes, Ford was the top speaker at
            Eckankar seminars for many many years. But eventually he saw through Eckankar's
            lies and fabrications and felt it was his responsibility to write a book
            correcting all the unintentional lies he had been telling people while a member.
            Of course, when that happened, members of Eckankar turned on him and said he was
            an agent for the Kal (devil), was based on the mental plane only (not
            spiritual), and was interested in getting rich by writing an expose about
            Eckankar. I know what they said because I was still a member. Funny how these
            same people were praising him the day before he left Eckankar. Yet he was the
            same heart-based individual after he left Eckankar as before he left.
            >
            > Also, there is no anger coming from Ford in his book. Stating that it is there
            is a tactic that members of Eckankar use to discredit Ford. I read the book;
            there is no anger coming from Ford. I strongly suspect that the anger is being
            generated by the Eckists themselves who read the book, and they lack the ability
            to differentiate things properly.
            >
            >
            >
            jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
            > >
            > > All,
            > >
            > > I was over at Amazon.com reading some of the reviews for Ford Johnson's book
            Confessions Of A Godseeker. A person wrote a review that I pretty much agreed
            with, but at the end stated that Ford wanted to make his own spiritual movement
            like Eckankar's. Whether they literally meant that Ford's Higher Consciousness
            Society resembled Eckankar is something I am not sure of. while it is true that
            a lot of HCS does resemble Eckankar, it also resembles the religions that
            Eckankar was based on. Regardless, there a lot of very important differences
            between Eckankar and Ford's group.
            > >
            > > I tried to post a follow-up comment on Amazon, but I couldn't. So I decided
            to put it here. Everything between the two dashed line is my comment which I
            would have posted over there.
            > >
            > > - - - - - - - - - -
            > > Ford did start his own "Higher Cosciousness Society" as he calls it, and it
            didn't impress me either. But your saying "his own spiritual movement like
            Eckankar" is a bit wrong. Let me explain what Ford DIDN'T do in his Higher
            Consciousness Society. These are all things that Eckankar DOES DO.
            > >
            > > Ford
            > > (1) did not copy other's writings and then claim them as his own
            > > (2) did not say "I am God realized. Follow me."
            > > (3) did not say "Sing HU and visualize me."
            > > (4) did not say "Give me your problems. I will solve them for you when you
            are sleeping at night."
            > > (5) did not say "If you leave my group, you will suffer in astral Hells
            until you accept me again."
            > > (6) does not promise that if you follow his routine that you will never have
            to suffer through another incarnation on Earth
            > > (7) does not insist that his way is better than everybody else's,
            > > (8) does not say that every religion in the world sprung out of his Higher
            Consciousness Society.
            > > (9) does not charge a membership fee of over $120 a year
            > > (10) does not spend a ton of money advertising his group. I don't think he
            advertizes his group at all.
            > > (11) does not have an "initiation routine" set up in order to keep his
            members preoccupied with something that has no intrinsic meaning or value.
            > >
            > > At the end of your comment, you also state that Eckankar's techniques are
            better than Ford's. I don't use either, but even if you are correct, what price
            do people have to pay to use Eckankar's techniques? You have to sign your life
            over to the present leader of Eckankar. You have to accept him as you savior.
            You have to promise to dedicate your life to him (that happened to me during my
            second initiation). Ford doesn't require anything like that.
            > > - - - - - - - - - -
            > >
            > > Everybody can feel free to add any additional differences.
            > >
          • etznab@aol.com
            I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he is open to change and evolution of ideas as well as admitting to, hmm, maybe that part wasn t so good or a
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 18, 2010
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              I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he is open to change
              and evolution of ideas as well as admitting to,"hmm, maybe that part
              wasn't so good or a mistake". Otherwise, it's just more dogma like.

              Noneckster,

              Not totally sure what you meant there. However, "hu"
              with an "m" is closer to sounding like "aum", or "om".

              Someplace in the writings by Paul Twitchell the word
              "AUM", or "OM" appears where, now, in the modern
              version, is the word "HU".

              I have the quotes someplace, and I think they were
              also posted at E.S.A.

              Another place (also in quotes at E.S.A.) Paul makes
              mention of the sound "hum", I believe, and some of
              the words he used to chant.

              Someone could follow up on this, if that is even what
              you were referring to. I wasn't sure the context, what
              you meant by: "hmm, maybe that part wasn't so good
              or a mistake". I assumed you meant "hu" with an "m".

              In any case (even if you were talking about something
              else) it brings up an interesting subject, IMO, looking
              for the history (etymology) of "hu" and "aum".

              Etznab

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Non <eckchains@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Fri, Sep 17, 2010 1:08 am
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Ford Johnson's HCS vs
              Eckankar - What Ford doesn't do

               
              It's been a while since I read the whole book, but I do recall feeling
              that the first half of the book was the best, and his discussion of
              religion in general. He also showed how the original India version,
              Rhada Soami was not much better or even the Sufi version from which
              most of the plagiarism came from. He does however, seem to believe that
              eckists would not leave eckankar unless they had something to take its
              place, and so he did try to have a big Seminar in Las Vegas and monthly
              on line spiritual meetings in which they would chant HUM instead of HU.
              Actually, now that I look at what I just wrote, maybe we should just go
              to an ek function and chant HMM? several times in rhythm and
              inflection, about 3 seconds apart. Just doing that makes me feel good
              and I can feel it remove any eckieguilt leftover. : ) LOL

              The problem as I see it, is that there is still too much in the
              direction of spiritual grandiosity. We create all that happens to us,
              no exceptions, and there just isn't enough of the kind of spirituality
              of Compassion. It's still very New Age, IMO.

              I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he is open to change
              and evolution of ideas as well as admitting to,"hmm, maybe that part
              wasn't so good or a mistake". Otherwise, it's just more dogma like.

              I'm still waiting for a Spirituality that includes a real sense of the
              Scientific Method. Think of how many Chemists who literally gave their
              lives, because their experiment blew up in their face, yet the periodic
              table is a pretty amazing thing. To some it may be boring, but if you
              take your time and get into newer theories about quantum theory and
              that scientists can actually take pictures of atoms and electrons,
              etc., well, just think about the fact that you cannot read this email
              without the technology utilized by chemists. And even there, they are
              willing to admit that their theories are just that, and creativity and
              change in thinking and ideas may take that technology to new levels
              that solve problems world wide, including Global Warming, that I doubt
              will be solved by positive thinking it away.

              noneckster ; )

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96"
              <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
              >
              > I thought that I would add another comment on Ford's book.
              >
              > I am a former 29 year member of Eckankar. Yes, Ford was the top
              speaker at Eckankar seminars for many many years. But eventually he saw
              through Eckankar's lies and fabrications and felt it was his
              responsibility to write a book correcting all the unintentional lies he
              had been telling people while a member. Of course, when that happened,
              members of Eckankar turned on him and said he was an agent for the Kal
              (devil), was based on the mental plane only (not spiritual), and was
              interested in getting rich by writing an expose about Eckankar. I know
              what they said because I was still a member. Funny how these same
              people were praising him the day before he left Eckankar. Yet he was
              the same heart-based individual after he left Eckankar as before he
              left.
              >
              > Also, there is no anger coming from Ford in his book. Stating that
              it is there is a tactic that members of Eckankar use to discredit Ford.
              I read the book; there is no anger coming from Ford. I strongly suspect
              that the anger is being generated by the Eckists themselves who read
              the book, and they lack the ability to differentiate things properly.
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
              "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
              > >
              > > All,
              > >
              > > I was over at Amazon.com reading some of the reviews for Ford
              Johnson's book Confessions Of A Godseeker. A person wrote a review that
              I pretty much agreed with, but at the end stated that Ford wanted to
              make his own spiritual movement like Eckankar's. Whether they literally
              meant that Ford's Higher Consciousness Society resembled Eckankar is
              something I am not sure of. while it is true that a lot of HCS does
              resemble Eckankar, it also resembles the religions that Eckankar was
              based on. Regardless, there a lot of very important differences between
              Eckankar and Ford's group.
              > >
              > > I tried to post a follow-up comment on Amazon, but I
              couldn't. So I decided to put it here. Everything between the two
              dashed line is my comment which I would have posted over there.
              > >
              > > - - - - - - - - - -
              > > Ford did start his own "Higher Cosciousness Society" as he
              calls it, and it didn't impress me either. But your saying "his own
              spiritual movement like Eckankar" is a bit wrong. Let me explain what
              Ford DIDN'T do in his Higher Consciousness Society. These are all
              things that Eckankar DOES DO.
              > >
              > > Ford
              > > (1) did not copy other's writings and then claim them as his
              own
              > > (2) did not say "I am God realized. Follow me."
              > > (3) did not say "Sing HU and visualize me."
              > > (4) did not say "Give me your problems. I will solve them for
              you when you are sleeping at night."
              > > (5) did not say "If you leave my group, you will suffer in
              astral Hells until you accept me again."
              > > (6) does not promise that if you follow his routine that you
              will never have to suffer through another incarnation on Earth
              > > (7) does not insist that his way is better than everybody
              else's,
              > > (8) does not say that every religion in the world sprung out
              of his Higher Consciousness Society.
              > > (9) does not charge a membership fee of over $120 a year
              > > (10) does not spend a ton of money advertising his group. I
              don't think he advertizes his group at all.
              > > (11) does not have an "initiation routine" set up in order to
              keep his members preoccupied with something that has no intrinsic
              meaning or value.
              > >
              > > At the end of your comment, you also state that Eckankar's
              techniques are better than Ford's. I don't use either, but even if you
              are correct, what price do people have to pay to use Eckankar's
              techniques? You have to sign your life over to the present leader of
              Eckankar. You have to accept him as you savior. You have to promise to
              dedicate your life to him (that happened to me during my second
              initiation). Ford doesn't require anything like that.
              > > - - - - - - - - - -
              > >
              > > Everybody can feel free to add any additional differences.
              > >
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello All, I have read where Paul would talk about and teach chanting OM and AUM ( Difficulties? ) years before he taught about HU, although, Hu is mentioned
              Message 6 of 6 , Sep 18, 2010
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                Hello All,
                I have read where Paul would talk about
                and teach chanting OM and AUM ("Difficulties?")
                years before he taught about HU, although,
                "Hu" is mentioned in "The Path of the Masters"
                which was PT's main resource book.

                I've also read somewhere in a PT book(?),
                and heard some ECKists, pronounce HU as
                "WHO." However, I forget where I read about
                that pronunciation. In retrospect it was odd
                that these EKists were using this old pronunciation
                from what was probably an obscure out-of-
                print book of PT's (I'm guessing) from long
                ago. They seemed so loyal and star struck
                to/with Klemp, but then again, HK has called
                them by name and pointed them out while
                he was on stage and has printed some of
                their simple and sometimes embellished
                stories.

                Of course these same or similar experiences
                and stories citing minor miracles and interventions
                have been told by Christians as well. I think
                that some Eckists just want/need attention
                and to stand out from the crowd because
                they have strong egos and they want to express
                their individuality. This is also why many
                older/long time ECKists rebel against and
                exhibit passive/aggressive behaviour toward
                the RESAs (police/guardians) and the ESC
                Guidelines.

                Prometheus

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                >
                > I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he is open to change
                > and evolution of ideas as well as admitting to,"hmm, maybe that part
                > wasn't so good or a mistake". Otherwise, it's just more dogma like.
                >
                > Noneckster,
                >
                > Not totally sure what you meant there. However, "hu"
                > with an "m" is closer to sounding like "aum", or "om".
                >
                > Someplace in the writings by Paul Twitchell the word
                > "AUM", or "OM" appears where, now, in the modern
                > version, is the word "HU".
                >
                > I have the quotes someplace, and I think they were
                > also posted at E.S.A.
                >
                > Another place (also in quotes at E.S.A.) Paul makes
                > mention of the sound "hum", I believe, and some of
                > the words he used to chant.
                >
                > Someone could follow up on this, if that is even what
                > you were referring to. I wasn't sure the context, what
                > you meant by: "hmm, maybe that part wasn't so good
                > or a mistake". I assumed you meant "hu" with an "m".
                >
                > In any case (even if you were talking about something
                > else) it brings up an interesting subject, IMO, looking
                > for the history (etymology) of "hu" and "aum".
                >
                > Etznab
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Non <eckchains@...>
                > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Fri, Sep 17, 2010 1:08 am
                > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Ford Johnson's HCS vs
                > Eckankar - What Ford doesn't do
                >
                >  
                > It's been a while since I read the whole book, but I do recall feeling
                > that the first half of the book was the best, and his discussion of
                > religion in general. He also showed how the original India version,
                > Rhada Soami was not much better or even the Sufi version from which
                > most of the plagiarism came from. He does however, seem to believe that
                > eckists would not leave eckankar unless they had something to take its
                > place, and so he did try to have a big Seminar in Las Vegas and monthly
                > on line spiritual meetings in which they would chant HUM instead of HU.
                > Actually, now that I look at what I just wrote, maybe we should just go
                > to an ek function and chant HMM? several times in rhythm and
                > inflection, about 3 seconds apart. Just doing that makes me feel good
                > and I can feel it remove any eckieguilt leftover. : ) LOL
                >
                > The problem as I see it, is that there is still too much in the
                > direction of spiritual grandiosity. We create all that happens to us,
                > no exceptions, and there just isn't enough of the kind of spirituality
                > of Compassion. It's still very New Age, IMO.
                >
                > I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he is open to change
                > and evolution of ideas as well as admitting to,"hmm, maybe that part
                > wasn't so good or a mistake". Otherwise, it's just more dogma like.
                >
                > I'm still waiting for a Spirituality that includes a real sense of the
                > Scientific Method. Think of how many Chemists who literally gave their
                > lives, because their experiment blew up in their face, yet the periodic
                > table is a pretty amazing thing. To some it may be boring, but if you
                > take your time and get into newer theories about quantum theory and
                > that scientists can actually take pictures of atoms and electrons,
                > etc., well, just think about the fact that you cannot read this email
                > without the technology utilized by chemists. And even there, they are
                > willing to admit that their theories are just that, and creativity and
                > change in thinking and ideas may take that technology to new levels
                > that solve problems world wide, including Global Warming, that I doubt
                > will be solved by positive thinking it away.
                >
                > noneckster ; )
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96"
                > jonathanjohns96@ wrote:
                > >
                > > I thought that I would add another comment on Ford's book.
                > >
                > > I am a former 29 year member of Eckankar. Yes, Ford was the top
                > speaker at Eckankar seminars for many many years. But eventually he saw
                > through Eckankar's lies and fabrications and felt it was his
                > responsibility to write a book correcting all the unintentional lies he
                > had been telling people while a member. Of course, when that happened,
                > members of Eckankar turned on him and said he was an agent for the Kal
                > (devil), was based on the mental plane only (not spiritual), and was
                > interested in getting rich by writing an expose about Eckankar. I know
                > what they said because I was still a member. Funny how these same
                > people were praising him the day before he left Eckankar. Yet he was
                > the same heart-based individual after he left Eckankar as before he
                > left.
                > >
                > > Also, there is no anger coming from Ford in his book. Stating that
                > it is there is a tactic that members of Eckankar use to discredit Ford.
                > I read the book; there is no anger coming from Ford. I strongly suspect
                > that the anger is being generated by the Eckists themselves who read
                > the book, and they lack the ability to differentiate things properly.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                > "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > All,
                > > >
                > > > I was over at Amazon.com reading some of the reviews for Ford
                > Johnson's book Confessions Of A Godseeker. A person wrote a review that
                > I pretty much agreed with, but at the end stated that Ford wanted to
                > make his own spiritual movement like Eckankar's. Whether they literally
                > meant that Ford's Higher Consciousness Society resembled Eckankar is
                > something I am not sure of. while it is true that a lot of HCS does
                > resemble Eckankar, it also resembles the religions that Eckankar was
                > based on. Regardless, there a lot of very important differences between
                > Eckankar and Ford's group.
                > > >
                > > > I tried to post a follow-up comment on Amazon, but I
                > couldn't. So I decided to put it here. Everything between the two
                > dashed line is my comment which I would have posted over there.
                > > >
                > > > - - - - - - - - - -
                > > > Ford did start his own "Higher Cosciousness Society" as he
                > calls it, and it didn't impress me either. But your saying "his own
                > spiritual movement like Eckankar" is a bit wrong. Let me explain what
                > Ford DIDN'T do in his Higher Consciousness Society. These are all
                > things that Eckankar DOES DO.
                > > >
                > > > Ford
                > > > (1) did not copy other's writings and then claim them as his
                > own
                > > > (2) did not say "I am God realized. Follow me."
                > > > (3) did not say "Sing HU and visualize me."
                > > > (4) did not say "Give me your problems. I will solve them for
                > you when you are sleeping at night."
                > > > (5) did not say "If you leave my group, you will suffer in
                > astral Hells until you accept me again."
                > > > (6) does not promise that if you follow his routine that you
                > will never have to suffer through another incarnation on Earth
                > > > (7) does not insist that his way is better than everybody
                > else's,
                > > > (8) does not say that every religion in the world sprung out
                > of his Higher Consciousness Society.
                > > > (9) does not charge a membership fee of over $120 a year
                > > > (10) does not spend a ton of money advertising his group. I
                > don't think he advertizes his group at all.
                > > > (11) does not have an "initiation routine" set up in order to
                > keep his members preoccupied with something that has no intrinsic
                > meaning or value.
                > > >
                > > > At the end of your comment, you also state that Eckankar's
                > techniques are better than Ford's. I don't use either, but even if you
                > are correct, what price do people have to pay to use Eckankar's
                > techniques? You have to sign your life over to the present leader of
                > Eckankar. You have to accept him as you savior. You have to promise to
                > dedicate your life to him (that happened to me during my second
                > initiation). Ford doesn't require anything like that.
                > > > - - - - - - - - - -
                > > >
                > > > Everybody can feel free to add any additional differences.
                > > >
                > >
                >
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