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Indian Americans and the caste system

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  • jonathanjohns96
    Prometheus, I m not so sure speaking with a Hindu or Sikh is worthwhile either, but mostly because I m not certain that they will tell me the truth. I knew a
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 8, 2010
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      Prometheus,

      I'm not so sure speaking with a Hindu or Sikh is worthwhile either, but mostly because I'm not certain that they will tell me the truth.

      I knew a Brahmin lady from India. Over a year ago she told me that the caste system was gone in India. Somebody who knows her very well recently told me that her daughter was preparing to go to college. And this lady spent a tremendous amount of time researching all the colleges she was interested in to verify that there were a lot of Brahmins attending the school? I suspected that it had to do with meeting possible marriage partners, but this person told me that the mother (my acquaintance) wanted to make sure that there were enough Brahmin girls there so her daughter could have enough Brahmin girlfriends.

      So, in essence, this lady I knew told me the caste system was dead in India, but meanwhile, she is practicing it in the Unites States.

      It seems like I used to have a really high opinions of all Indians, but lately I have been coming to realize that they are just like everybody else, a few great ones, and a whole bunch of average ones, including many who have no problem with being hypocritical.

      Jonathan
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Jonathan and All, I agree that it s hard to get the real truth from any religionist... Eckankar included. Yes, the caste system was outlawed in India
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 8, 2010
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        Hello Jonathan and All,
        I agree that it's hard to get the real truth
        from any religionist... Eckankar included.
        Yes, the caste system was "outlawed" in
        India (for show) but it's functioning quite
        well.

        Eckankar's Caste System equates to: Level
        of Initiation.

        Let's face it, a lower initiate's opinion or
        even their "spiritual" experiences (especially
        those coming from 1st, 2nd or 3rd initiates)
        mean little to most Higher Initiates. These
        "experiences" may be worthy enough to
        place into an ECK pub for publicity purposes,
        but have no real value otherwise, except
        to other Lower Initiates (wannabes). In truth,
        these Lower Initiates are disrespected by
        H.I.s because their Initiation Level is a "Yardstick"
        of their level of inner experience and consciousness.

        Yes, some Lower Initiates may have good
        business and communication skills, but this
        is not the same as having a higher "spiritual"
        consciousness. On the other hand these Eckists
        who do have unique worldly skills are usually
        those who get initiated faster and higher.
        Thus, "professionals," in Eckankar, get promoted
        faster and higher than those who don't have
        the "credentials." This in and of itself shows
        a "caste consciousness." Professionals are
        "fast tracked" on Initiations, but almost all
        will hit the glass ceiling of the 7th Initiation.


        BTW- Klemp has stated, in the past, that some
        Lower Initiates are "higher" than some Higher
        Initiates. However, if this were true then why
        did these "Higher" Initiates get promoted in
        the first place and/or why have they kept their
        Higher Initiation rank?

        Plus, why weren't these "Lower" Initiates, with
        a H.I. level of consciousness as HK claimed,
        promoted to the 5th or 6th Initiation? I knew
        one or two and they were never promoted.
        Klemp's words are useless because the proof
        is in the pudding... so to speak. If someone
        coming into ECKankar really does have a level
        of spiritual consciousness equating to the 5th,
        6th, or 7th Plane then why aren't they promoted
        to at least the 5th? And, why aren't some H.I.s
        demoted if they don't demonstrate, via behaviour,
        a Higher "Spiritual" Consciousness?

        Well, it's obvious why it doesn't make sense.
        Klemp is a fraud! He has no idea of what is
        going on with anyone unless someone sends
        him an email, gives him or Joan a phone call,
        or he receives a snail-mail letter. Of course
        he does hear about it in person at times from
        Board members, or from RESAs when there's
        a big RESA meeting.

        However, much of this communication HK has
        (involving other ECKists) is merely hearsay and
        is not verified. The big point is, there's no "Inner"
        communication that takes place with Klemp (the
        LEM/Mahanta) and with his Higher Initiates. A
        few ECKists having an occasional dream, etc.
        with Klemp showing up doesn't really amount
        to having "inner communication." This is just
        another use of the mind's imagination giving
        a religious follower what they have expected
        and desired to experience. All religions use
        these "experiences"or miracles or whatever as
        "proof" that their religion is better than another
        or all others!

        I'm rather surprised that many ECKists have
        limited curiosity as to the beginnings of Eckankar
        and don't see the correlations with other religions
        like Sant Mat or with secret visitations and miracles.
        Apparently, most ECKistss threw their memories
        of this out with the bath water, and don't read
        anything outside of the EK teachings due to an
        innate fear of learning the Truth. Most people
        need to feel secure and special and this requires
        a personal "God" and Eckankar is no exception.

        Prometheus






        Jonathan wrote:
        Prometheus,

        I'm not so sure speaking with a Hindu or Sikh is worthwhile either, but mostly
        because I'm not certain that they will tell me the truth.

        I knew a Brahmin lady from India. Over a year ago she told me that the caste
        system was gone in India. Somebody who knows her very well recently told me that
        her daughter was preparing to go to college. And this lady spent a tremendous
        amount of time researching all the colleges she was interested in to verify that
        there were a lot of Brahmins attending the school? I suspected that it had to do
        with meeting possible marriage partners, but this person told me that the mother
        (my acquaintance) wanted to make sure that there were enough Brahmin girls there
        so her daughter could have enough Brahmin girlfriends.

        So, in essence, this lady I knew told me the caste system was dead in India, but
        meanwhile, she is practicing it in the Unites States.

        It seems like I used to have a really high opinions of all Indians, but lately I
        have been coming to realize that they are just like everybody else, a few great
        ones, and a whole bunch of average ones, including many who have no problem with
        being hypocritical.

        Jonathan
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