Re: What Makes Klemp a Prophet... a second book?
- Hello Jonathan,
There was something you said that got
me thinking about Twitchell's motives
for changing things around:
"Of course, one of the "faiths" that Paul
copied was Radhasoami. But look what
Wikipedia says about it:
"Radhasoami is a faith, considered by
adherents as a true way to realize God.
It is neither a religion, nor a caste or
creed or sect or a division in society."
To me, this sounds exactly like the way
Twitchell described Eckankar. David Lane
must have mentioned this, but it must
have just flown past me."
IMO this is probably the way it began with
Eckankar, except, Twitchell (and Gail) felt
the need to make some changes in order
to protect their investment.
1. Paul had a Five-Year Plan where he was
going to hand over the ECKankar leadership
after Five years, but Eckankar took off with
memberships increasing and money flowing
in and this caused Paul to renege on this
promise in year Four. This outraged those
standing-in-line to take over and, thus,
this created a power rift and criticism from
some highly ranked, respected, and influential
2. Around this same time-frame there were
problems with a former ECKist, John-Roger,
using Paul's books and EK Discourses to create
his own religion. However, this guy continued
to emulate Twitchell, Gross, and even Klemp!
3. Around this same time-frame (mid 1968)
Paul was, still, being criticized by his former
RUHANI SATSANG members and by his former
Master Kirpal Singh. This started with PT's
exaggerations in his (rejected) "The Tiger's
Fang" manuscript which he had sent to Kirpal
in order to promote himself for advancement
(of that org) within the U.S. This, of course,
was just prior to 1965 and was one reason
why Gail encouraged Paul to share/sell his
knowledge and research via intros, memberships,
tapes, and discourses.
4. Paul, now, needed to place himself above
all others, especially, his critics. Paul did this
by creating the 14th Plane "Mahanta" title
for himself in January, 1969.
And, by creating 14 Planes of Initiation he
not only gave hope in reaching these higher
planes to placate his Higher Initiates and
dangle the carrot (higher) in front of them,
but to also give them an ego boost that made
them think that their path was the Highest,
most Exclusive, and Truest one out there.
After all, he and Gail, were now, in it
for the long haul, or so he thought.
Therefore, Paul and Gail, came up with their
own version of the Hindu Caste System... the
ECK Initiations! Even to this day only a handful
of ECKists have ever received the secretive
9th Initiation... which is odd since the 12th
isn't a secret!
However, there is nothing in ECK scripture
to prevent ECKists (male and female) from
being made "ECK Masters" (in this lifetime)
since these 12th Initiates don't have to be
LEMs! I do predict that Klemp will make
his wife Joan a 12th, ECK Master, before
he retires. It could be that he's already
done this, but hasn't "announced" it to
the membership. Klemp likes to do the
20/20 hindsight thing and he has claimed
in his "Wonderful" book that Joan has,
supposedly, been introducing ECKists
to the Mahanta on the "Inner" for
several years now.
Unfortunately for ECKists Klemp is selfish
and fearful to share any of the EK power
with anyone outside of his current wife.
Maybe this is how he holds onto her...
with promises to make her a 12th.
BTW-Look at how HK handled the situation
with Darwin. That was ruthless! And, to this
day Klemp has never acknowledged Darwin
Gross' death. Klemp had an opportunity to
make amends and to say some nice things
about his (our) former Master who handed
him the Rod of ECK Power. But No! Klemp's
omission of those EK Virtues showed another
side to him that most ECKists would have
never seen otherwise. Still, ECKists have
closed their eyes to Klemp's negative behaviour,
And, look at those searches and Metal Detectors
for HK's Saturday evening talk at major ECK
Seminars. This shows his level of Fear as well
and this attachment is a Passion of the Mind.
Thus, Klemp has not only perpetuated PT's
ECK Initiation Caste System, but has limited
it due to his own narcissism. HK never learned
how to share and has always been arrogant,
angry, critical of others, and a poor listener
and a poor loser... look at those old ping-pong
stories of HK's! All in all, this shows that Klemp
is not qualified to be the leader of anything
that should resemble "spirituality." Talk is
cheap and that's all he's got... along with the
delusional dreams and imaginings of his brain-
washed and needy followers. Yes, he's smiling
all the way to the Bank and back again and again.
[What makes Klemp a Prophet... a second book?]
Hello Jonathan, Avonblue, and All,
Actually, when I joined, Eckankar was being referred
to as a "spiritual path" and the term "religion" was
avoided because we still had a bad taste in our
mouths about "religion."
Yes, I did the Cayce (A.R.E.) thing, the TM thing
and several others. It is interesting that even to
this day most TMers will say that TM is Not a religion.
It's a scientific method to reduce stress. ROFLMAO!
Actually it does work to reduce stress, but secretly
one is praying to Hindu gods! Maharishi was a
conman who knew how to (covertly) promote a
religion to the Western mindset. And, some of the
ritual for receiving a mantra is very similar to what
one does at an ECK initiation.
BTW- It was mentioned as to what the Eckankar
site looks like now. But, look at how long it took!
I remember that I was still getting publications
from TM for about ten years (I couldn't get rid
of them... they'd track me down) into the 1980s
and everything was printed in Gold Leaf. Look at
how long it took Eckankar (Klemp) to change the
format of the ECK pubs. Weren't the EK publications
changed to a Gold Leaf look around 1990? Strange
that he copied TM's look. That's why I said that
Klemp seems conflicted. HK goes back to his
familiar Lutheran roots while, also, following
PT's hodge-podge of Eastern thought. That's
another thing. Eckankar is a hodge-podge
religion, therefore, why aren't other perspectives
permitted? Klemp is the only one who gets to
say how it is and what you're to say and believe.
Re: What Makes Klemp a Prophet... a second book?
You reminded me of something very important that I have never mentioned on any
message board. You said that "Religion" was becoming a bad word. What I wanted
to mention is that if Eckankar was calling itself a religion in 1979 when I
joined, I would have never joined. The reason is because as you put it,
"religion" was a bad word for me. I was very turned off by all religions.
The interesting thing is that TM had the same by-line (We are not a religion).
Of course, one of the "faiths" that Paul copied was Radhasoami. But look what
Wikipedia says about it:
"Radhasoami is a faith, considered by adherents as a true way to realize God. It
is neither a religion, nor a caste or creed or sect or a division in society."
To me, this sounds exactly like the way Twitchell described Eckankar. Dvaid Lane
must have mentioned this, but it must have just flown past me.
>back of Scientology, Sant Mat, Edgar Cayce, etc. in the 60's to build his new
> Good information Jonathan. Twitchell rode the popular (although esoteric)
"path". " Religion" was becoming a bad word. Look at the eckankar site now!
From the soft pastel colors, gold highlights, clean-cut smiling faces - it looks
like a Christian Easter mass announcement. Paul is probably rolling in his
proverbial grave. I'm not sure this new look reflects the consciousness of the
age, as eckists are led to believe, but more the consciousness of a mid-western
man trying to save a dying "religion".
> >like to comment on two other things related to Eckankar's calling Klemp a
> > Prometheus,
> > I can't answer your question about what makes Klemp a prophet, but I would
> >Chanhassen available on Eckankar.org. I haven't actually looked there, but I am
> > First of all, Eckankar could easily make Klemps' weekly radio broadcast in
assuming that it is not there. Or they could even make mp3s of the broadcast and
distribute them for free on Eckankar.org. (Ha ha! Fat chance of Eckankar giving
something away for free!)
> >uses it too, but that is a translation from Middle Eastern languages. So I see
> > Secondly, "prophet" is a term used widely by Christianity. Islam obviously
Eckankar's use of the term prophet as applied to HK as another example of
Eckankar imitating Christianity in order to make themselves more appealing to
people of Christian ancestry.
> >words of Indian origin. Those terms tend to color Eckankar as a religion from
> > Twitchell used terms like "satguru" and even "avatar," and probably other
India. Eckankar is from India, of course, but Eckankar wants to de-emphasize
that in its initial portrayal of itself to potential new members. So using the
term "prophet" allows Eckankar to further distance itself from Paul's
"India-colored" version of Eckankar. Paul's version of Eckankar actually worked
for Eckankar in the 60s and 70s when the Beatles and others were turning to
eastern religions such as Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation (TM). But today,
Eckankar continues to distance itself from that image, at least in its initial
presentation to non-members.
> >same process. The Christian term cancels out any weird-sounding East Indian term
> > So using a Christian term and avoiding an Indian term is really part of the
like "Mahanta." Of course, new members do find out the truth eventually.
> >one of his cassette tapes. I learned the word from him and his tape. And also,
> > In case any historians like Etznab read this, Paul used the word avatar in
he mispronounced the word. He pronounced the first syllable like "save." So I
pronounced the word incorrectly for 30 years, all the way up to when the movie
came out. And just because I am such a perfectionist, I asked a man from India
who was in an Indian grocery store how it is pronounced in India. He told me the
standard American pronunciation with the first syllable pronounced like "have."
I forgot to mention that the word avatar comes from Sanskrit; that's why I
assumed that a person from India would know how to pronounce it correctly.
> > avatar - Merriam-Webster Dictionary
> > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avatar
> > Jonathan