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Re: What Makes Klemp a Prophet... a second book?

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Jonathan, There was something you said that got me thinking about Twitchell s motives for changing things around: Of course, one of the faiths that
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 30, 2010
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      Hello Jonathan,
      There was something you said that got
      me thinking about Twitchell's motives
      for changing things around:

      "Of course, one of the "faiths" that Paul
      copied was Radhasoami. But look what
      Wikipedia says about it:


      "Radhasoami is a faith, considered by
      adherents as a true way to realize God.
      It is neither a religion, nor a caste or
      creed or sect or a division in society."

      To me, this sounds exactly like the way
      Twitchell described Eckankar. David Lane
      must have mentioned this, but it must
      have just flown past me."

      IMO this is probably the way it began with
      Eckankar, except, Twitchell (and Gail) felt
      the need to make some changes in order
      to protect their investment.

      1. Paul had a Five-Year Plan where he was
      going to hand over the ECKankar leadership
      after Five years, but Eckankar took off with
      memberships increasing and money flowing
      in and this caused Paul to renege on this
      promise in year Four. This outraged those
      standing-in-line to take over and, thus,
      this created a power rift and criticism from
      some highly ranked, respected, and influential

      2. Around this same time-frame there were
      problems with a former ECKist, John-Roger,
      using Paul's books and EK Discourses to create
      his own religion. However, this guy continued
      to emulate Twitchell, Gross, and even Klemp!

      3. Around this same time-frame (mid 1968)
      Paul was, still, being criticized by his former
      RUHANI SATSANG members and by his former
      Master Kirpal Singh. This started with PT's
      exaggerations in his (rejected) "The Tiger's
      Fang" manuscript which he had sent to Kirpal
      in order to promote himself for advancement
      (of that org) within the U.S. This, of course,
      was just prior to 1965 and was one reason
      why Gail encouraged Paul to share/sell his
      knowledge and research via intros, memberships,
      tapes, and discourses.

      4. Paul, now, needed to place himself above
      all others, especially, his critics. Paul did this
      by creating the 14th Plane "Mahanta" title
      for himself in January, 1969.

      And, by creating 14 Planes of Initiation he
      not only gave hope in reaching these higher
      planes to placate his Higher Initiates and
      dangle the carrot (higher) in front of them,
      but to also give them an ego boost that made
      them think that their path was the Highest,
      most Exclusive, and Truest one out there.
      After all, he and Gail, were now, in it
      for the long haul, or so he thought.

      Therefore, Paul and Gail, came up with their
      own version of the Hindu Caste System... the
      ECK Initiations! Even to this day only a handful
      of ECKists have ever received the secretive
      9th Initiation... which is odd since the 12th
      isn't a secret!

      However, there is nothing in ECK scripture
      to prevent ECKists (male and female) from
      being made "ECK Masters" (in this lifetime)
      since these 12th Initiates don't have to be
      LEMs! I do predict that Klemp will make
      his wife Joan a 12th, ECK Master, before
      he retires. It could be that he's already
      done this, but hasn't "announced" it to
      the membership. Klemp likes to do the
      20/20 hindsight thing and he has claimed
      in his "Wonderful" book that Joan has,
      supposedly, been introducing ECKists
      to the Mahanta on the "Inner" for
      several years now.

      Unfortunately for ECKists Klemp is selfish
      and fearful to share any of the EK power
      with anyone outside of his current wife.
      Maybe this is how he holds onto her...
      with promises to make her a 12th.

      BTW-Look at how HK handled the situation
      with Darwin. That was ruthless! And, to this
      day Klemp has never acknowledged Darwin
      Gross' death. Klemp had an opportunity to
      make amends and to say some nice things
      about his (our) former Master who handed
      him the Rod of ECK Power. But No! Klemp's
      omission of those EK Virtues showed another
      side to him that most ECKists would have
      never seen otherwise. Still, ECKists have
      closed their eyes to Klemp's negative behaviour,

      And, look at those searches and Metal Detectors
      for HK's Saturday evening talk at major ECK
      Seminars. This shows his level of Fear as well
      and this attachment is a Passion of the Mind.

      Thus, Klemp has not only perpetuated PT's
      ECK Initiation Caste System, but has limited
      it due to his own narcissism. HK never learned
      how to share and has always been arrogant,
      angry, critical of others, and a poor listener
      and a poor loser... look at those old ping-pong
      stories of HK's! All in all, this shows that Klemp
      is not qualified to be the leader of anything
      that should resemble "spirituality." Talk is
      cheap and that's all he's got... along with the
      delusional dreams and imaginings of his brain-
      washed and needy followers. Yes, he's smiling
      all the way to the Bank and back again and again.


      [What makes Klemp a Prophet... a second book?]

      Prometheus wrote:

      Hello Jonathan, Avonblue, and All,

      Actually, when I joined, Eckankar was being referred
      to as a "spiritual path" and the term "religion" was
      avoided because we still had a bad taste in our
      mouths about "religion."

      Yes, I did the Cayce (A.R.E.) thing, the TM thing
      and several others. It is interesting that even to
      this day most TMers will say that TM is Not a religion.
      It's a scientific method to reduce stress. ROFLMAO!
      Actually it does work to reduce stress, but secretly
      one is praying to Hindu gods! Maharishi was a
      conman who knew how to (covertly) promote a
      religion to the Western mindset. And, some of the
      ritual for receiving a mantra is very similar to what
      one does at an ECK initiation.

      BTW- It was mentioned as to what the Eckankar
      site looks like now. But, look at how long it took!
      I remember that I was still getting publications
      from TM for about ten years (I couldn't get rid
      of them... they'd track me down) into the 1980s
      and everything was printed in Gold Leaf. Look at
      how long it took Eckankar (Klemp) to change the
      format of the ECK pubs. Weren't the EK publications
      changed to a Gold Leaf look around 1990? Strange
      that he copied TM's look. That's why I said that
      Klemp seems conflicted. HK goes back to his
      familiar Lutheran roots while, also, following
      PT's hodge-podge of Eastern thought. That's
      another thing. Eckankar is a hodge-podge
      religion, therefore, why aren't other perspectives
      permitted? Klemp is the only one who gets to
      say how it is and what you're to say and believe.


      jonathanjohns wrote:
      Re: What Makes Klemp a Prophet... a second book?

      You reminded me of something very important that I have never mentioned on any
      message board. You said that "Religion" was becoming a bad word. What I wanted
      to mention is that if Eckankar was calling itself a religion in 1979 when I
      joined, I would have never joined. The reason is because as you put it,
      "religion" was a bad word for me. I was very turned off by all religions.

      The interesting thing is that TM had the same by-line (We are not a religion).

      Of course, one of the "faiths" that Paul copied was Radhasoami. But look what
      Wikipedia says about it:

      "Radhasoami is a faith, considered by adherents as a true way to realize God. It
      is neither a religion, nor a caste or creed or sect or a division in society."

      To me, this sounds exactly like the way Twitchell described Eckankar. Dvaid Lane
      must have mentioned this, but it must have just flown past me.


      avonblue wrote:
      > Good information Jonathan. Twitchell rode the popular (although esoteric)
      back of Scientology, Sant Mat, Edgar Cayce, etc. in the 60's to build his new
      "path". " Religion" was becoming a bad word. Look at the eckankar site now!
      From the soft pastel colors, gold highlights, clean-cut smiling faces - it looks
      like a Christian Easter mass announcement. Paul is probably rolling in his
      proverbial grave. I'm not sure this new look reflects the consciousness of the
      age, as eckists are led to believe, but more the consciousness of a mid-western
      man trying to save a dying "religion".
      > AB
      jonathanjohns wrote:
      > >
      > > Prometheus,
      > >
      > > I can't answer your question about what makes Klemp a prophet, but I would
      like to comment on two other things related to Eckankar's calling Klemp a
      > >
      > > First of all, Eckankar could easily make Klemps' weekly radio broadcast in
      Chanhassen available on Eckankar.org. I haven't actually looked there, but I am
      assuming that it is not there. Or they could even make mp3s of the broadcast and
      distribute them for free on Eckankar.org. (Ha ha! Fat chance of Eckankar giving
      something away for free!)
      > >
      > > Secondly, "prophet" is a term used widely by Christianity. Islam obviously
      uses it too, but that is a translation from Middle Eastern languages. So I see
      Eckankar's use of the term prophet as applied to HK as another example of
      Eckankar imitating Christianity in order to make themselves more appealing to
      people of Christian ancestry.
      > >
      > > Twitchell used terms like "satguru" and even "avatar," and probably other
      words of Indian origin. Those terms tend to color Eckankar as a religion from
      India. Eckankar is from India, of course, but Eckankar wants to de-emphasize
      that in its initial portrayal of itself to potential new members. So using the
      term "prophet" allows Eckankar to further distance itself from Paul's
      "India-colored" version of Eckankar. Paul's version of Eckankar actually worked
      for Eckankar in the 60s and 70s when the Beatles and others were turning to
      eastern religions such as Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation (TM). But today,
      Eckankar continues to distance itself from that image, at least in its initial
      presentation to non-members.
      > >
      > > So using a Christian term and avoiding an Indian term is really part of the
      same process. The Christian term cancels out any weird-sounding East Indian term
      like "Mahanta." Of course, new members do find out the truth eventually.
      > >
      > > In case any historians like Etznab read this, Paul used the word avatar in
      one of his cassette tapes. I learned the word from him and his tape. And also,
      he mispronounced the word. He pronounced the first syllable like "save." So I
      pronounced the word incorrectly for 30 years, all the way up to when the movie
      came out. And just because I am such a perfectionist, I asked a man from India
      who was in an Indian grocery store how it is pronounced in India. He told me the
      standard American pronunciation with the first syllable pronounced like "have."
      I forgot to mention that the word avatar comes from Sanskrit; that's why I
      assumed that a person from India would know how to pronounce it correctly.
      > >
      > > avatar - Merriam-Webster Dictionary
      > > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avatar
      > >
      > > Jonathan
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