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Re: What Makes Klemp a Prophet... a second book?

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  • jonathanjohns96
    Prometheus, I can t answer your question about what makes Klemp a prophet, but I would like to comment on two other things related to Eckankar s calling Klemp
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 24 6:03 PM
      Prometheus,

      I can't answer your question about what makes Klemp a prophet, but I would like to comment on two other things related to Eckankar's calling Klemp a prophet.

      First of all, Eckankar could easily make Klemps' weekly radio broadcast in Chanhassen available on Eckankar.org. I haven't actually looked there, but I am assuming that it is not there. Or they could even make mp3s of the broadcast and distribute them for free on Eckankar.org. (Ha ha! Fat chance of Eckankar giving something away for free!)

      Secondly, "prophet" is a term used widely by Christianity. Islam obviously uses it too, but that is a translation from Middle Eastern languages. So I see Eckankar's use of the term prophet as applied to HK as another example of Eckankar imitating Christianity in order to make themselves more appealing to people of Christian ancestry.

      Twitchell used terms like "satguru" and even "avatar," and probably other words of Indian origin. Those terms tend to color Eckankar as a religion from India. Eckankar is from India, of course, but Eckankar wants to de-emphasize that in its initial portrayal of itself to potential new members. So using the term "prophet" allows Eckankar to further distance itself from Paul's "India-colored" version of Eckankar. Paul's version of Eckankar actually worked for Eckankar in the 60s and 70s when the Beatles and others were turning to eastern religions such as Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation (TM). But today, Eckankar continues to distance itself from that image, at least in its initial presentation to non-members.

      So using a Christian term and avoiding an Indian term is really part of the same process. The Christian term cancels out any weird-sounding East Indian term like "Mahanta." Of course, new members do find out the truth eventually.

      In case any historians like Etznab read this, Paul used the word avatar in one of his cassette tapes. I learned the word from him and his tape. And also, he mispronounced the word. He pronounced the first syllable like "save." So I pronounced the word incorrectly for 30 years, all the way up to when the movie came out. And just because I am such a perfectionist, I asked a man from India who was in an Indian grocery store how it is pronounced in India. He told me the standard American pronunciation with the first syllable pronounced like "have." I forgot to mention that the word avatar comes from Sanskrit; that's why I assumed that a person from India would know how to pronounce it correctly.

      avatar - Merriam-Webster Dictionary
      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avatar

      Jonathan
    • avonblue1212
      Good information Jonathan. Twitchell rode the popular (although esoteric) back of Scientology, Sant Mat, Edgar Cayce, etc. in the 60 s to build his new
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 24 7:04 PM
        Good information Jonathan. Twitchell rode the popular (although esoteric) back of Scientology, Sant Mat, Edgar Cayce, etc. in the 60's to build his new "path". " Religion" was becoming a bad word. Look at the eckankar site now! From the soft pastel colors, gold highlights, clean-cut smiling faces - it looks like a Christian Easter mass announcement. Paul is probably rolling in his proverbial grave. I'm not sure this new look reflects the consciousness of the age, as eckists are led to believe, but more the consciousness of a mid-western man trying to save a dying "religion".

        AB


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
        >
        > Prometheus,
        >
        > I can't answer your question about what makes Klemp a prophet, but I would like to comment on two other things related to Eckankar's calling Klemp a prophet.
        >
        > First of all, Eckankar could easily make Klemps' weekly radio broadcast in Chanhassen available on Eckankar.org. I haven't actually looked there, but I am assuming that it is not there. Or they could even make mp3s of the broadcast and distribute them for free on Eckankar.org. (Ha ha! Fat chance of Eckankar giving something away for free!)
        >
        > Secondly, "prophet" is a term used widely by Christianity. Islam obviously uses it too, but that is a translation from Middle Eastern languages. So I see Eckankar's use of the term prophet as applied to HK as another example of Eckankar imitating Christianity in order to make themselves more appealing to people of Christian ancestry.
        >
        > Twitchell used terms like "satguru" and even "avatar," and probably other words of Indian origin. Those terms tend to color Eckankar as a religion from India. Eckankar is from India, of course, but Eckankar wants to de-emphasize that in its initial portrayal of itself to potential new members. So using the term "prophet" allows Eckankar to further distance itself from Paul's "India-colored" version of Eckankar. Paul's version of Eckankar actually worked for Eckankar in the 60s and 70s when the Beatles and others were turning to eastern religions such as Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation (TM). But today, Eckankar continues to distance itself from that image, at least in its initial presentation to non-members.
        >
        > So using a Christian term and avoiding an Indian term is really part of the same process. The Christian term cancels out any weird-sounding East Indian term like "Mahanta." Of course, new members do find out the truth eventually.
        >
        > In case any historians like Etznab read this, Paul used the word avatar in one of his cassette tapes. I learned the word from him and his tape. And also, he mispronounced the word. He pronounced the first syllable like "save." So I pronounced the word incorrectly for 30 years, all the way up to when the movie came out. And just because I am such a perfectionist, I asked a man from India who was in an Indian grocery store how it is pronounced in India. He told me the standard American pronunciation with the first syllable pronounced like "have." I forgot to mention that the word avatar comes from Sanskrit; that's why I assumed that a person from India would know how to pronounce it correctly.
        >
        > avatar - Merriam-Webster Dictionary
        > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avatar
        >
        > Jonathan
        >
      • jonathanjohns96
        You reminded me of something very important that I have never mentioned on any message board. You said that Religion was becoming a bad word. What I wanted
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 24 7:52 PM
          You reminded me of something very important that I have never mentioned on any message board. You said that "Religion" was becoming a bad word. What I wanted to mention is that if Eckankar was calling itself a religion in 1979 when I joined, I would have never joined. The reason is because as you put it, "religion" was a bad word for me. I was very turned off by all religions.

          The interesting thing is that TM had the same by-line (We are not a religion).

          Of course, one of the "faiths" that Paul copied was Radhasoami. But look what Wikipedia says about it:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radha_Soami
          "Radhasoami is a faith, considered by adherents as a true way to realize God. It is neither a religion, nor a caste or creed or sect or a division in society."

          To me, this sounds exactly like the way Twitchell described Eckankar. Dvaid Lane must have mentioned this, but it must have just flown past me.

          Jonathan

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "avonblue1212" <gowiththeflow1212@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Good information Jonathan. Twitchell rode the popular (although esoteric) back of Scientology, Sant Mat, Edgar Cayce, etc. in the 60's to build his new "path". " Religion" was becoming a bad word. Look at the eckankar site now! From the soft pastel colors, gold highlights, clean-cut smiling faces - it looks like a Christian Easter mass announcement. Paul is probably rolling in his proverbial grave. I'm not sure this new look reflects the consciousness of the age, as eckists are led to believe, but more the consciousness of a mid-western man trying to save a dying "religion".
          >
          > AB
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Prometheus,
          > >
          > > I can't answer your question about what makes Klemp a prophet, but I would like to comment on two other things related to Eckankar's calling Klemp a prophet.
          > >
          > > First of all, Eckankar could easily make Klemps' weekly radio broadcast in Chanhassen available on Eckankar.org. I haven't actually looked there, but I am assuming that it is not there. Or they could even make mp3s of the broadcast and distribute them for free on Eckankar.org. (Ha ha! Fat chance of Eckankar giving something away for free!)
          > >
          > > Secondly, "prophet" is a term used widely by Christianity. Islam obviously uses it too, but that is a translation from Middle Eastern languages. So I see Eckankar's use of the term prophet as applied to HK as another example of Eckankar imitating Christianity in order to make themselves more appealing to people of Christian ancestry.
          > >
          > > Twitchell used terms like "satguru" and even "avatar," and probably other words of Indian origin. Those terms tend to color Eckankar as a religion from India. Eckankar is from India, of course, but Eckankar wants to de-emphasize that in its initial portrayal of itself to potential new members. So using the term "prophet" allows Eckankar to further distance itself from Paul's "India-colored" version of Eckankar. Paul's version of Eckankar actually worked for Eckankar in the 60s and 70s when the Beatles and others were turning to eastern religions such as Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation (TM). But today, Eckankar continues to distance itself from that image, at least in its initial presentation to non-members.
          > >
          > > So using a Christian term and avoiding an Indian term is really part of the same process. The Christian term cancels out any weird-sounding East Indian term like "Mahanta." Of course, new members do find out the truth eventually.
          > >
          > > In case any historians like Etznab read this, Paul used the word avatar in one of his cassette tapes. I learned the word from him and his tape. And also, he mispronounced the word. He pronounced the first syllable like "save." So I pronounced the word incorrectly for 30 years, all the way up to when the movie came out. And just because I am such a perfectionist, I asked a man from India who was in an Indian grocery store how it is pronounced in India. He told me the standard American pronunciation with the first syllable pronounced like "have." I forgot to mention that the word avatar comes from Sanskrit; that's why I assumed that a person from India would know how to pronounce it correctly.
          > >
          > > avatar - Merriam-Webster Dictionary
          > > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avatar
          > >
          > > Jonathan
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Jonathan and All, In Difficulties Paul was referred to as a saviour. Actually, HK s Modern Prophet designation reminds me more of Islam s use of
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 27 2:39 PM
            Hello Jonathan and All,
            In "Difficulties" Paul was
            referred to as a "saviour."

            Actually, HK's "Modern Prophet"
            designation reminds me more
            of Islam's use of the term, as
            well as, the Mormon use of
            "Prophet." Of course HK is a
            14th Plane God while these
            others are relegated to the
            lower planes ruled by Satan
            (i.e. the Devil, Kal).

            Therefore, (IMO) I see less
            connection to Christianity when
            HK uses "Prophet" to describe
            himself. I see it as more of a
            term a cultist would use. I think
            he's conflicted and is doing this
            because he wants to play down
            the "Mahanta" title since the so-
            called Mahanta is 10 Planes above
            the "God" that every other religion
            prays to and worships... this is
            a much higher status than that
            Jesus or Mohamed.

            And, let's face it, Klemp just can't
            live up to the Mahanta Job Description.
            Maybe that's the real reason he
            plays it down. I still don't see why
            ECKists haven't questioned HK's
            qualifications. According to the
            Shariyat 1 he (the Mahanta) was
            to have had a virgin birth. Harold
            was the second child born by his
            mother and was not adopted!
            Thus, Twitchell has been the only
            Mahanta to this date!

            However, that brings up another
            discussion. The Shariyats are said
            to have been merely "transcribed"
            by Twitchell. The original author
            of Book One is listed as Fubbi and
            Book Two's author is listed as Yaubl.
            I wonder why Rebazar didn't dictate
            a Shariyat to Twit?

            Anyway, why are these Eckankar Holy
            Books offered to the public andr to lower
            initiates? Nothing can be reinterpreted
            or viewed from another perspective as
            it is with the Christian Bible. Every
            scriptural interpretation or dream, etc.
            must be validated and approved by Klemp
            before it can be "taught" and/or promoted.
            Klemp has total control. Therefore, why
            even offer this EK Scripture to the EK
            Membership let alone to the general public?

            Yes, ECKankar practices bait and switch.
            One doesn't discover this, and the implications,
            until one becomes indoctrinated and
            brainwashed via trusting all of those
            smiling faces.

            Prometheus

            jonathanjohns wrote:
            Prometheus,

            I can't answer your question about what makes Klemp a prophet, but I would like
            to comment on two other things related to Eckankar's calling Klemp a prophet.

            First of all, Eckankar could easily make Klemps' weekly radio broadcast in
            Chanhassen available on Eckankar.org. I haven't actually looked there, but I am
            assuming that it is not there. Or they could even make mp3s of the broadcast and
            distribute them for free on Eckankar.org. (Ha ha! Fat chance of Eckankar giving
            something away for free!)

            Secondly, "prophet" is a term used widely by Christianity. Islam obviously uses
            it too, but that is a translation from Middle Eastern languages. So I see
            Eckankar's use of the term prophet as applied to HK as another example of
            Eckankar imitating Christianity in order to make themselves more appealing to
            people of Christian ancestry.

            Twitchell used terms like "satguru" and even "avatar," and probably other words
            of Indian origin. Those terms tend to color Eckankar as a religion from India.
            Eckankar is from India, of course, but Eckankar wants to de-emphasize that in
            its initial portrayal of itself to potential new members. So using the term
            "prophet" allows Eckankar to further distance itself from Paul's "India-colored"
            version of Eckankar. Paul's version of Eckankar actually worked for Eckankar in
            the 60s and 70s when the Beatles and others were turning to eastern religions
            such as Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation (TM). But today, Eckankar
            continues to distance itself from that image, at least in its initial
            presentation to non-members.

            So using a Christian term and avoiding an Indian term is really part of the same
            process. The Christian term cancels out any weird-sounding East Indian term like
            "Mahanta." Of course, new members do find out the truth eventually.

            In case any historians like Etznab read this, Paul used the word avatar in one
            of his cassette tapes. I learned the word from him and his tape. And also, he
            mispronounced the word. He pronounced the first syllable like "save." So I
            pronounced the word incorrectly for 30 years, all the way up to when the movie
            came out. And just because I am such a perfectionist, I asked a man from India
            who was in an Indian grocery store how it is pronounced in India. He told me the
            standard American pronunciation with the first syllable pronounced like "have."
            I forgot to mention that the word avatar comes from Sanskrit; that's why I
            assumed that a person from India would know how to pronounce it correctly.

            avatar - Merriam-Webster Dictionary
            http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avatar

            Jonathan
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Jonathan, Avonblue, and All, Actually, when I joined, Eckankar was being referred to as a spiritual path and the term religion was avoided because we
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 27 3:26 PM
              Hello Jonathan, Avonblue, and All,

              Actually, when I joined, Eckankar was being referred
              to as a "spiritual path" and the term "religion" was
              avoided because we still had a bad taste in our
              mouths about "religion."

              Yes, I did the Cayce (A.R.E.) thing, the TM thing
              and several others. It is interesting that even to
              this day most TMers will say that TM is Not a religion.
              It's a scientific method to reduce stress. ROFLMAO!
              Actually it does work to reduce stress, but secretly
              one is praying to Hindu gods! Maharishi was a
              conman who knew how to (covertly) promote a
              religion to the Western mindset. And, some of the
              ritual for receiving a mantra is very similar to what
              one does at an ECK initiation.

              BTW- It was mentioned as to what the Eckankar
              site looks like now. But, look at how long it took!
              I remember that I was still getting publications
              from TM for about ten years (I couldn't get rid
              of them... they'd track me down) into the 1980s
              and everything was printed in Gold Leaf. Look at
              how long it took Eckankar (Klemp) to change the
              format of the ECK pubs. Weren't the EK publications
              changed to a Gold Leaf look around 1990? Strange
              that he copied TM's look. That's why I said that
              Klemp seems conflicted. HK goes back to his
              familiar Lutheran roots while, also, following
              PT's hodge-podge of Eastern thought. That's
              another thing. Eckankar is a hodge-podge
              religion, therefore, why aren't other perspectives
              permitted? Klemp is the only one who gets to
              say how it is and what you're to say and believe.

              Prometheus

              jonathanjohns wrote:
              Re: What Makes Klemp a Prophet... a second book?

              You reminded me of something very important that I have never mentioned on any
              message board. You said that "Religion" was becoming a bad word. What I wanted
              to mention is that if Eckankar was calling itself a religion in 1979 when I
              joined, I would have never joined. The reason is because as you put it,
              "religion" was a bad word for me. I was very turned off by all religions.

              The interesting thing is that TM had the same by-line (We are not a religion).

              Of course, one of the "faiths" that Paul copied was Radhasoami. But look what
              Wikipedia says about it:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radha_Soami
              "Radhasoami is a faith, considered by adherents as a true way to realize God. It
              is neither a religion, nor a caste or creed or sect or a division in society."

              To me, this sounds exactly like the way Twitchell described Eckankar. Dvaid Lane
              must have mentioned this, but it must have just flown past me.

              Jonathan

              avonblue wrote:
              >
              >
              > Good information Jonathan. Twitchell rode the popular (although esoteric)
              back of Scientology, Sant Mat, Edgar Cayce, etc. in the 60's to build his new
              "path". " Religion" was becoming a bad word. Look at the eckankar site now!
              From the soft pastel colors, gold highlights, clean-cut smiling faces - it looks
              like a Christian Easter mass announcement. Paul is probably rolling in his
              proverbial grave. I'm not sure this new look reflects the consciousness of the
              age, as eckists are led to believe, but more the consciousness of a mid-western
              man trying to save a dying "religion".
              >
              > AB
              >
              >
              jonathanjohns wrote:
              > >
              > > Prometheus,
              > >
              > > I can't answer your question about what makes Klemp a prophet, but I would
              like to comment on two other things related to Eckankar's calling Klemp a
              prophet.
              > >
              > > First of all, Eckankar could easily make Klemps' weekly radio broadcast in
              Chanhassen available on Eckankar.org. I haven't actually looked there, but I am
              assuming that it is not there. Or they could even make mp3s of the broadcast and
              distribute them for free on Eckankar.org. (Ha ha! Fat chance of Eckankar giving
              something away for free!)
              > >
              > > Secondly, "prophet" is a term used widely by Christianity. Islam obviously
              uses it too, but that is a translation from Middle Eastern languages. So I see
              Eckankar's use of the term prophet as applied to HK as another example of
              Eckankar imitating Christianity in order to make themselves more appealing to
              people of Christian ancestry.
              > >
              > > Twitchell used terms like "satguru" and even "avatar," and probably other
              words of Indian origin. Those terms tend to color Eckankar as a religion from
              India. Eckankar is from India, of course, but Eckankar wants to de-emphasize
              that in its initial portrayal of itself to potential new members. So using the
              term "prophet" allows Eckankar to further distance itself from Paul's
              "India-colored" version of Eckankar. Paul's version of Eckankar actually worked
              for Eckankar in the 60s and 70s when the Beatles and others were turning to
              eastern religions such as Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation (TM). But today,
              Eckankar continues to distance itself from that image, at least in its initial
              presentation to non-members.
              > >
              > > So using a Christian term and avoiding an Indian term is really part of the
              same process. The Christian term cancels out any weird-sounding East Indian term
              like "Mahanta." Of course, new members do find out the truth eventually.
              > >
              > > In case any historians like Etznab read this, Paul used the word avatar in
              one of his cassette tapes. I learned the word from him and his tape. And also,
              he mispronounced the word. He pronounced the first syllable like "save." So I
              pronounced the word incorrectly for 30 years, all the way up to when the movie
              came out. And just because I am such a perfectionist, I asked a man from India
              who was in an Indian grocery store how it is pronounced in India. He told me the
              standard American pronunciation with the first syllable pronounced like "have."
              I forgot to mention that the word avatar comes from Sanskrit; that's why I
              assumed that a person from India would know how to pronounce it correctly.
              > >
              > > avatar - Merriam-Webster Dictionary
              > > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avatar
              > >
              > > Jonathan
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Jonathan, There was something you said that got me thinking about Twitchell s motives for changing things around: Of course, one of the faiths that
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 30 12:46 PM
                Hello Jonathan,
                There was something you said that got
                me thinking about Twitchell's motives
                for changing things around:

                "Of course, one of the "faiths" that Paul
                copied was Radhasoami. But look what
                Wikipedia says about it:

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radha_Soami

                "Radhasoami is a faith, considered by
                adherents as a true way to realize God.
                It is neither a religion, nor a caste or
                creed or sect or a division in society."

                To me, this sounds exactly like the way
                Twitchell described Eckankar. David Lane
                must have mentioned this, but it must
                have just flown past me."



                IMO this is probably the way it began with
                Eckankar, except, Twitchell (and Gail) felt
                the need to make some changes in order
                to protect their investment.

                1. Paul had a Five-Year Plan where he was
                going to hand over the ECKankar leadership
                after Five years, but Eckankar took off with
                memberships increasing and money flowing
                in and this caused Paul to renege on this
                promise in year Four. This outraged those
                standing-in-line to take over and, thus,
                this created a power rift and criticism from
                some highly ranked, respected, and influential
                H.I.s.

                2. Around this same time-frame there were
                problems with a former ECKist, John-Roger,
                using Paul's books and EK Discourses to create
                his own religion. However, this guy continued
                to emulate Twitchell, Gross, and even Klemp!

                3. Around this same time-frame (mid 1968)
                Paul was, still, being criticized by his former
                RUHANI SATSANG members and by his former
                Master Kirpal Singh. This started with PT's
                exaggerations in his (rejected) "The Tiger's
                Fang" manuscript which he had sent to Kirpal
                in order to promote himself for advancement
                (of that org) within the U.S. This, of course,
                was just prior to 1965 and was one reason
                why Gail encouraged Paul to share/sell his
                knowledge and research via intros, memberships,
                tapes, and discourses.

                4. Paul, now, needed to place himself above
                all others, especially, his critics. Paul did this
                by creating the 14th Plane "Mahanta" title
                for himself in January, 1969.

                And, by creating 14 Planes of Initiation he
                not only gave hope in reaching these higher
                planes to placate his Higher Initiates and
                dangle the carrot (higher) in front of them,
                but to also give them an ego boost that made
                them think that their path was the Highest,
                most Exclusive, and Truest one out there.
                After all, he and Gail, were now, in it
                for the long haul, or so he thought.

                Therefore, Paul and Gail, came up with their
                own version of the Hindu Caste System... the
                ECK Initiations! Even to this day only a handful
                of ECKists have ever received the secretive
                9th Initiation... which is odd since the 12th
                isn't a secret!

                However, there is nothing in ECK scripture
                to prevent ECKists (male and female) from
                being made "ECK Masters" (in this lifetime)
                since these 12th Initiates don't have to be
                LEMs! I do predict that Klemp will make
                his wife Joan a 12th, ECK Master, before
                he retires. It could be that he's already
                done this, but hasn't "announced" it to
                the membership. Klemp likes to do the
                20/20 hindsight thing and he has claimed
                in his "Wonderful" book that Joan has,
                supposedly, been introducing ECKists
                to the Mahanta on the "Inner" for
                several years now.

                Unfortunately for ECKists Klemp is selfish
                and fearful to share any of the EK power
                with anyone outside of his current wife.
                Maybe this is how he holds onto her...
                with promises to make her a 12th.

                BTW-Look at how HK handled the situation
                with Darwin. That was ruthless! And, to this
                day Klemp has never acknowledged Darwin
                Gross' death. Klemp had an opportunity to
                make amends and to say some nice things
                about his (our) former Master who handed
                him the Rod of ECK Power. But No! Klemp's
                omission of those EK Virtues showed another
                side to him that most ECKists would have
                never seen otherwise. Still, ECKists have
                closed their eyes to Klemp's negative behaviour,

                And, look at those searches and Metal Detectors
                for HK's Saturday evening talk at major ECK
                Seminars. This shows his level of Fear as well
                and this attachment is a Passion of the Mind.

                Thus, Klemp has not only perpetuated PT's
                ECK Initiation Caste System, but has limited
                it due to his own narcissism. HK never learned
                how to share and has always been arrogant,
                angry, critical of others, and a poor listener
                and a poor loser... look at those old ping-pong
                stories of HK's! All in all, this shows that Klemp
                is not qualified to be the leader of anything
                that should resemble "spirituality." Talk is
                cheap and that's all he's got... along with the
                delusional dreams and imaginings of his brain-
                washed and needy followers. Yes, he's smiling
                all the way to the Bank and back again and again.

                Prometheus


                *************************************************
                [What makes Klemp a Prophet... a second book?]

                Prometheus wrote:

                Hello Jonathan, Avonblue, and All,

                Actually, when I joined, Eckankar was being referred
                to as a "spiritual path" and the term "religion" was
                avoided because we still had a bad taste in our
                mouths about "religion."

                Yes, I did the Cayce (A.R.E.) thing, the TM thing
                and several others. It is interesting that even to
                this day most TMers will say that TM is Not a religion.
                It's a scientific method to reduce stress. ROFLMAO!
                Actually it does work to reduce stress, but secretly
                one is praying to Hindu gods! Maharishi was a
                conman who knew how to (covertly) promote a
                religion to the Western mindset. And, some of the
                ritual for receiving a mantra is very similar to what
                one does at an ECK initiation.

                BTW- It was mentioned as to what the Eckankar
                site looks like now. But, look at how long it took!
                I remember that I was still getting publications
                from TM for about ten years (I couldn't get rid
                of them... they'd track me down) into the 1980s
                and everything was printed in Gold Leaf. Look at
                how long it took Eckankar (Klemp) to change the
                format of the ECK pubs. Weren't the EK publications
                changed to a Gold Leaf look around 1990? Strange
                that he copied TM's look. That's why I said that
                Klemp seems conflicted. HK goes back to his
                familiar Lutheran roots while, also, following
                PT's hodge-podge of Eastern thought. That's
                another thing. Eckankar is a hodge-podge
                religion, therefore, why aren't other perspectives
                permitted? Klemp is the only one who gets to
                say how it is and what you're to say and believe.

                Prometheus

                jonathanjohns wrote:
                Re: What Makes Klemp a Prophet... a second book?

                You reminded me of something very important that I have never mentioned on any
                message board. You said that "Religion" was becoming a bad word. What I wanted
                to mention is that if Eckankar was calling itself a religion in 1979 when I
                joined, I would have never joined. The reason is because as you put it,
                "religion" was a bad word for me. I was very turned off by all religions.

                The interesting thing is that TM had the same by-line (We are not a religion).

                Of course, one of the "faiths" that Paul copied was Radhasoami. But look what
                Wikipedia says about it:

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radha_Soami
                "Radhasoami is a faith, considered by adherents as a true way to realize God. It
                is neither a religion, nor a caste or creed or sect or a division in society."

                To me, this sounds exactly like the way Twitchell described Eckankar. Dvaid Lane
                must have mentioned this, but it must have just flown past me.

                Jonathan

                avonblue wrote:
                >
                >
                > Good information Jonathan. Twitchell rode the popular (although esoteric)
                back of Scientology, Sant Mat, Edgar Cayce, etc. in the 60's to build his new
                "path". " Religion" was becoming a bad word. Look at the eckankar site now!
                From the soft pastel colors, gold highlights, clean-cut smiling faces - it looks
                like a Christian Easter mass announcement. Paul is probably rolling in his
                proverbial grave. I'm not sure this new look reflects the consciousness of the
                age, as eckists are led to believe, but more the consciousness of a mid-western
                man trying to save a dying "religion".
                >
                > AB
                >
                >
                jonathanjohns wrote:
                > >
                > > Prometheus,
                > >
                > > I can't answer your question about what makes Klemp a prophet, but I would
                like to comment on two other things related to Eckankar's calling Klemp a
                prophet.
                > >
                > > First of all, Eckankar could easily make Klemps' weekly radio broadcast in
                Chanhassen available on Eckankar.org. I haven't actually looked there, but I am
                assuming that it is not there. Or they could even make mp3s of the broadcast and
                distribute them for free on Eckankar.org. (Ha ha! Fat chance of Eckankar giving
                something away for free!)
                > >
                > > Secondly, "prophet" is a term used widely by Christianity. Islam obviously
                uses it too, but that is a translation from Middle Eastern languages. So I see
                Eckankar's use of the term prophet as applied to HK as another example of
                Eckankar imitating Christianity in order to make themselves more appealing to
                people of Christian ancestry.
                > >
                > > Twitchell used terms like "satguru" and even "avatar," and probably other
                words of Indian origin. Those terms tend to color Eckankar as a religion from
                India. Eckankar is from India, of course, but Eckankar wants to de-emphasize
                that in its initial portrayal of itself to potential new members. So using the
                term "prophet" allows Eckankar to further distance itself from Paul's
                "India-colored" version of Eckankar. Paul's version of Eckankar actually worked
                for Eckankar in the 60s and 70s when the Beatles and others were turning to
                eastern religions such as Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation (TM). But today,
                Eckankar continues to distance itself from that image, at least in its initial
                presentation to non-members.
                > >
                > > So using a Christian term and avoiding an Indian term is really part of the
                same process. The Christian term cancels out any weird-sounding East Indian term
                like "Mahanta." Of course, new members do find out the truth eventually.
                > >
                > > In case any historians like Etznab read this, Paul used the word avatar in
                one of his cassette tapes. I learned the word from him and his tape. And also,
                he mispronounced the word. He pronounced the first syllable like "save." So I
                pronounced the word incorrectly for 30 years, all the way up to when the movie
                came out. And just because I am such a perfectionist, I asked a man from India
                who was in an Indian grocery store how it is pronounced in India. He told me the
                standard American pronunciation with the first syllable pronounced like "have."
                I forgot to mention that the word avatar comes from Sanskrit; that's why I
                assumed that a person from India would know how to pronounce it correctly.
                > >
                > > avatar - Merriam-Webster Dictionary
                > > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avatar
                > >
                > > Jonathan
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