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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: A Look At the Next 2010 ECK Worldwide Seminar

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  • Peter Anton
    Thank you Ingrid and Mish for the comments. Let me remind you that I don t have any gripe with Eckankar whatsoever. My problem as stated in my first post is
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 29, 2010
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      Thank you Ingrid and Mish for the comments.  Let me remind you that I don't have any gripe with Eckankar whatsoever.  My problem as stated in my first post is a lack of personal experience that matches the lore put forth in Eck circles.  This is an issue with me and the spiritual path that I am walking.  I have absolutely no evidence that the Eckankar organization is anything but upstanding and well meaning.  My problem, in short, is MY problem.  Whatever conspiracies or deceptions others see are their perceptions and none of my business. 

      I can see now that this is not the place for me.  Have a good life, everyone.

      Peter



      mishmisha9 wrote:
       

      Hi, Peter!

      Welcome to the site. I'm not really into discussing every or any
      other religions but in just brief passing. I'm just not interested in
      the man made religions that in my opinion are basically presented
      to keep the masses of people under control by implanting a lot of
      fear and guilt in the followers. Eckankar on the surface may not
      seem to be that way but in reality it is. It diverts one's attention
      for one thing from the real world and it demands time and money
      being expended. But if people enjoy the delusion and feel comfortable
      with it . . . well, okay!

      Anyway, would you like to share what troubles you about eckankar?
      What are you questioning at this point?

      There is a lot of information in the archives . . . hope you will spend
      some time reading. I enjoyed posting my reviews on Klemp's "Those
      Wonderful ECK Masters" . .. to me, that little jewel of a book revealed
      how Klemp manipulates and promotes eckankar's false promises and spins.

      Of course, you are correct that you have to decide for yourself. This site
      shares information about the false and flawed teachings . . . the big
      ones are the lies and plagiarisms.

      As for members being disgruntled . . . what's wrong with that? If you
      feel duped, of course, you will feel disgruntled. Why should members
      feel kindly about the lies and wasted time in eckankar?

      This is not a wishy washy place.

      Take care,
      Mish

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Peter Anton <peterantonrev@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks for the elaboration, Pro, but I was hoping for some feedback from
      > someone other than you. No offense, but the opinion of one I've already
      > heard from does not help me. I will wait and see if someone else speaks
      > up to see if there will be any useful dialog to keep me here. I'd
      > normally present some thoughts as seeds for discussion, but I'm still
      > uncertain that it would amount to anymore than fuel for controversy,
      > debate and rants. Perhaps the Eckist members here are simply keeping an
      > eye on detractor groups and that is partly the reason I dropped in. I
      > don't have any time for argument about opinions or facts? that people
      > have about the Eckankar movement and organization. Those are things
      > that only I can and must determine for myself. If criticism is all this
      > group is all about then I won't be here long. For now, I will wait
      > until and if I get some other perspectives.
      >
      > Peter
      >
      > prometheus_973 wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Peter,
      > > Please don't hold the group
      > > to what I wrote in the introduction.
      > > I would like to address what you
      > > have written.
      > >
      > > Peter wrote:
      > >
      > > This may be my only post to this
      > > group before I leave it. We'll see.
      > >
      > > Although Eckankar has been my
      > > preferred spiritual viewpoint for
      > > 30 years, I have climbed onto the
      > > fence to look around due to a lack
      > > of personal experience or direct
      > > evidence to support claims, or
      > > should I say simply, the lore which
      > > surrounds the teachings of Eckankar.
      > >
      > > ME: It does seem as though you've
      > > been on the fence for some time now.
      > > I will admit that I was unhappy with
      > > many things on the business side of
      > > the org and this always carried over
      > > to the "spiritual" side. And, there was
      > > a lot of bait and switch that people
      > > just gradually accepted and had to
      > > accept to climb higher after years
      > > and years. I too was/am a skeptic
      > > and it took me many years to surrender
      > > to the mahanta. I'm just glad that
      > > I was able to retain my sanity.
      > >
      > > P: So I joined this group [ESA] to
      > > entertain my skeptical side, having
      > > had a tendency to be a bit too "faithful"
      > > about things I have yet to gain real
      > > knowledge of.
      > >
      > > ME: I've always been the skeptic
      > > and wasn't much of a joiner. I always
      > > had trouble fully accepting/believing
      > > the hype. And, I never liked the
      > > emotional approaches some groups
      > > took.
      > >
      > > P: Personal experience is, in my mind,
      > > the only thing that proves anything
      > > conclusively and then only for the
      > > person in question. I have no way
      > > of knowing the reality of other people's
      > > experience and so I work to have
      > > respect for the viewpoints of others
      > > and try to find common areas of
      > > understanding by offering my
      > > perspective and learning from the
      > > (hopefully honest and true) experiences
      > > of others.
      > >
      > > ME: Yes! Others can help us to get to
      > > a certain point. But, everything involving
      > > God or Spirit or Whatever requires subjective
      > > (personal) experiences in both the outer
      > > and inner realities of our lives. However,
      > > one needs to be objective and free of
      > > religious opinions in order to find Truth.
      > > Unfortunately, religions (Eckankar) requires
      > > one to become attached to the opinions
      > > of the leader (and those "higher" than
      > > yourself), dogma, laws, rules, guidelines,
      > > belief, faith, hope, promises, scripture,
      > > tradition, objects (buildings), ceremonies,
      > > initiation rank, etc.
      > >
      > >
      > > P: So... I am curious whether this group
      > > holds to its statement:
      > >
      > > "We, also, cover the concerns and
      > > critical thinking involving the consciousness
      > > and workings of ALL societies, religions,
      > > and governments and the world as
      > > a whole.
      > >
      > > Let's share our opinions, new insights
      > > & perspectives of NOT ONLY Eckankar,
      > > but of other religions, organizations,
      > > governments and their leaders too.
      > > Be respectful to your fellow site members."
      > >
      > > ME: I can't speak for the group. I wrote
      > > that long ago and I do sometimes approach
      > > other topics such as: All Religions Are Scams!
      > > Basically I wrote that because I thought people
      > > could tie-in other subjects to the main focus
      > > which is the Scam of Eckankar which Twitchell
      > > created and Klemp and Company inherited.
      > >
      > > P: Or... if it is ONLY a negative, reactionary
      > > and closed-minded forum for disgruntled
      > > ex-members of Eckankar as also expressed
      > > in the description and mainly by Prometheus_
      > > 973 in the discussion. If so, I have plenty
      > > of other better ways to spend my time.
      > >
      > > ME: Actually some members are Not ex-ECKists.
      > > They are current card carrying ECKists. Some
      > > just don't post... they Read only, but want the
      > > member benefits of email notification and
      > > access to the Files. BTW- We aren't here to
      > > have a discussion on whether Eckankar or
      > > Klemp is being truthful or is a valid religion.
      > >
      > > After all, Klemp cannot actually communicate
      > > with his chelas on the "inner" (as he claims
      > > with his Mahanta powers) or else he would
      > > not need to have a computer generated
      > > initiation list sent to RESAs for their recommendation/
      > > approval.
      > >
      > > And, why the monthly IROs if there
      > > is "Inner communication" with the
      > > All Knowing Master?
      > >
      > > Why aren't there "inner" Seminars, or
      > > "inner Satsang classes" scheduled for
      > > local areas? The same goes for "inner
      > > Book discussions." Where's the proof
      > > in the pudding for all the claims?
      > >
      > > It's all talk and promises and imagination!
      > > Sure, some people will see Rebazar or
      > > other guys before even seeing their pic.
      > > But, this happens in other religions too
      > > with seeing Jesus or Buddha or Krishna
      > > or Kirpal Singh (Paul's real Master), etc.
      > > etc. And, their stories and miracles are
      > > better than the ones Eckists have! Why
      > > is that (Google miracles)? Shouldn't a
      > > card carrying Eckist have even greater
      > > miracles and events happen to them
      > > since they are closer/higher to God?
      > > One would think so, but No!
      > >
      > > And, of course, the Truth will be
      > > a "negative" and hurtful view of Eckankar
      > > as seen by brain-washed ECKists.
      > > I would have seen it the same way
      > > at one time and become angry. You
      > > have to buy into it all for it to "work"
      > > mentally/spiritually. When a person
      > > (Eckist) has put in that much time and
      > > money and effort to make rank. You
      > > (self/ego) is going to defend your choices
      > > even though there are things and people
      > > in the ESC org/church or Satsang Society
      > > that you don't like or want to work with
      > > or for.
      > >
      > > The Klemp's getting angry with that Third
      > > Fill-in Postal Clerk in the 9/200(?) H.I.
      > > Letter showed that something was still wrong.
      > > [It's listed in the Files].
      > >
      > > Plus there's the EMR/EMF thing that started
      > > around 1991 and still bothers Klemp.
      > >
      > > How about the Polarians and Adom and Ede
      > > and the Garden of Eden Myth? This is printed
      > > in the Shariyat!
      > >
      > > How about what is written in the Shariyat 1
      > > about the Virgin Birth of the Mahanta when
      > > Klemp is the 2nd son? How can HK be the
      > > Mahanta? Is ECK Scripture wrong? Is it
      > > negative to mention this?
      > >
      > > There's more of course, but let's face it
      > > an ECKist cannot ask questions after
      > > the 2nd initiation due to maintaining the
      > > Law of Silence (one must go to the inner).
      > > This is a control tactic of religion. One
      > > must learn to Surrender, and Service will
      > > keep you too busy to think critically or
      > > to ask difficult questions. If questions
      > > are asked the H.I. grapevine will notify
      > > the RESA Police and this will cause some
      > > Eckists to be Black Listed on Initiations
      > > for at least three-five years or until
      > > another RESA is chosen.
      > >
      > > Maybe you should find something else
      > > to occupy your time. Live life! Let go
      > > and let God!
      > >
      > > Personally, I felt a huge weight (stress)
      > > lifted from my shoulders when I finally
      > > made the decision to quit Eckankar.
      > > It was a wonderful and a spiritual
      > > experience! But, it was very difficult not
      > > looking to or asking the mahanta for help.
      > >
      > > I finally looked to my Self and to Spirit.
      > > This is how I became religion free and
      > > Spiritually Free. I am my own master
      > > and I have my own personal religion...
      > > as it should be.
      > >
      > > But, others need experts and holy men
      > > to look up to because it helps them to
      > > believe. Of course, that's what causes the
      > > problems for everyone else. BTW- The
      > > social connections can be made outside
      > > of church and I didn't want to hang out
      > > with too many Eckists anyway.
      > >
      > > Or, go to the 2010 EWWS and celebrate the
      > > "Year of the ECK Teacher" again. I hear there
      > > will be another "Acres of Diamonds Meeting"
      > > and an ECK "Arahata Skills Workshop" again.
      > > Oh, and I hear that there will be an "ECK-Vidya
      > > Workshop" even though Eckankar (Klemp)
      > > no longer sells PT's ECK-Vidya book. And,
      > > there's that revisit to the Temple and walking
      > > the Contemplation Trails (again).
      > >
      > > P: Awaiting any new and enlightening information,
      > > Peter
      > >
      > > ME: The info has been given. But, one needs
      > > the ears to hear it and the eyes to see it. You,
      > > still, might not be ready to go it alone with
      > > Soul and with Spirit but that's okay... you're
      > > not alone.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > prometheus_973 wrote:
      > >
      > > It's the "Year of the Teacher" again.
      > > However, words have two meanings.
      > > In Eckankar "Teacher," also, refers to
      > > or means Arahata and this refers to
      > > or means a 2nd Initiate. Aren't ECKists
      > > going backwards? Isn't revisiting the
      > > past each year considered as "Spiritual
      > > Devolution versus Evolution?"
      > >
      > > Klemp and Company are substituting
      > > talk (sharing and stories), social interaction,
      > > feelings from the 4th "Heart" chakra,
      > > Temple tours, retraining classes, HU
      > > chants (with focus on the 6th Chakra)
      > > and entertainment for Spirituality. It's
      > > a Physical, Astral, Causal, and Mental
      > > exercise, especially, when one projects
      > > expectations via the mind's imagination.
      > > BTW-All Chakras (even the highest Crown
      > > Chakra which ECKankar doesn't use)
      > > are seen by them as being Astral Plane.
      > >
      > > So, after 29 years with Klemp in charge
      > > ECKists are encouraged to make an
      > > expensive pilgrimage (during a recession)
      > > to visit the EK Temple and to see and
      > > hear the Klempster in person. This
      > > is odd (or is it? $$$) because one would
      > > think that "the most advanced spiritual
      > > path" on the planet would encourage
      > > "INNER" visitations, meetings, satsangs,
      > > and Worldwide Seminars!
      > >
      > > Why aren't there "Inner" ECK Worldwide
      > > Seminars? Aren't ECKists advanced
      > > enough after all of this time? At least
      > > have an Inner Worldwide for Higher Initiates...
      > > right?!
      > >
      > > Aren't ECKists encouraged to visit the
      > > Physical Plane ECK Temple in Chanhassen
      > > on the "Inner Plane" as well as other
      > > Physical Plane and Inner Plane Temples?
      > > Sure!
      > >
      > > So, why is it necessary to travel to
      > > Minnesota to see and hear Klemp or
      > > to visit the EK Temple there? Do ECKists
      > > need the retraining, or do they need
      > > to reinforce their delusional beliefs that
      > > Eckankar and Klemp are so much more
      > > "advanced" than other religions and
      > > other religious leaders?
      > >
      > > ECKists need to remember one thing:
      > > Keep smiling... it looks good and fools
      > > people!
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      >

    • mishmisha9
      Peter, I hope you can figure out why you are having this lack of personal experience while following the eckankar path . . . maybe you need to investigate why
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 29, 2010
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        Peter, I hope you can figure out why you are having this lack of
        personal experience while following the eckankar path . . . maybe
        you need to investigate why you are not being successful as I assume
        that you are doing the spiritual exercises as taught by Klemp? This
        has to be important, because how can you be making any progress on
        the eck spiritual path you are trying to walk? Are you at a stand still rather
        than sitting on the fence? Must be very frustrating for you.

        Well, I hope you figure out how to take care of your problem and then can
        have a nice life!!

        Mish

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Peter Anton <peterantonrev@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thank you Ingrid and Mish for the comments. Let me remind you that I
        > don't have any gripe with Eckankar whatsoever. My problem as stated in
        > my first post is a lack of personal experience that matches the lore put
        > forth in Eck circles. This is an issue with me and the spiritual path
        > that I am walking. I have absolutely no evidence that the Eckankar
        > organization is anything but upstanding and well meaning. My problem,
        > in short, is MY problem. Whatever conspiracies or deceptions others see
        > are their perceptions and none of my business.
        >
        > I can see now that this is not the place for me. Have a good life,
        > everyone.
        >
        > Peter
        >
        >
        >
        > mishmisha9 wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi, Peter!
        > >
        > > Welcome to the site. I'm not really into discussing every or any
        > > other religions but in just brief passing. I'm just not interested in
        > > the man made religions that in my opinion are basically presented
        > > to keep the masses of people under control by implanting a lot of
        > > fear and guilt in the followers. Eckankar on the surface may not
        > > seem to be that way but in reality it is. It diverts one's attention
        > > for one thing from the real world and it demands time and money
        > > being expended. But if people enjoy the delusion and feel comfortable
        > > with it . . . well, okay!
        > >
        > > Anyway, would you like to share what troubles you about eckankar?
        > > What are you questioning at this point?
        > >
        > > There is a lot of information in the archives . . . hope you will spend
        > > some time reading. I enjoyed posting my reviews on Klemp's "Those
        > > Wonderful ECK Masters" . .. to me, that little jewel of a book revealed
        > > how Klemp manipulates and promotes eckankar's false promises and spins.
        > >
        > > Of course, you are correct that you have to decide for yourself. This site
        > > shares information about the false and flawed teachings . . . the big
        > > ones are the lies and plagiarisms.
        > >
        > > As for members being disgruntled . . . what's wrong with that? If you
        > > feel duped, of course, you will feel disgruntled. Why should members
        > > feel kindly about the lies and wasted time in eckankar?
        > >
        > > This is not a wishy washy place.
        > >
        > > Take care,
        > > Mish
        > >
        > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > > <mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com>, Peter Anton
        > > <peterantonrev@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Thanks for the elaboration, Pro, but I was hoping for some feedback
        > > from
        > > > someone other than you. No offense, but the opinion of one I've already
        > > > heard from does not help me. I will wait and see if someone else speaks
        > > > up to see if there will be any useful dialog to keep me here. I'd
        > > > normally present some thoughts as seeds for discussion, but I'm still
        > > > uncertain that it would amount to anymore than fuel for controversy,
        > > > debate and rants. Perhaps the Eckist members here are simply keeping an
        > > > eye on detractor groups and that is partly the reason I dropped in. I
        > > > don't have any time for argument about opinions or facts? that people
        > > > have about the Eckankar movement and organization. Those are things
        > > > that only I can and must determine for myself. If criticism is all this
        > > > group is all about then I won't be here long. For now, I will wait
        > > > until and if I get some other perspectives.
        > > >
        > > > Peter
        > > >
        > > > prometheus_973 wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hello Peter,
        > > > > Please don't hold the group
        > > > > to what I wrote in the introduction.
        > > > > I would like to address what you
        > > > > have written.
        > > > >
        > > > > Peter wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > This may be my only post to this
        > > > > group before I leave it. We'll see.
        > > > >
        > > > > Although Eckankar has been my
        > > > > preferred spiritual viewpoint for
        > > > > 30 years, I have climbed onto the
        > > > > fence to look around due to a lack
        > > > > of personal experience or direct
        > > > > evidence to support claims, or
        > > > > should I say simply, the lore which
        > > > > surrounds the teachings of Eckankar.
        > > > >
        > > > > ME: It does seem as though you've
        > > > > been on the fence for some time now.
        > > > > I will admit that I was unhappy with
        > > > > many things on the business side of
        > > > > the org and this always carried over
        > > > > to the "spiritual" side. And, there was
        > > > > a lot of bait and switch that people
        > > > > just gradually accepted and had to
        > > > > accept to climb higher after years
        > > > > and years. I too was/am a skeptic
        > > > > and it took me many years to surrender
        > > > > to the mahanta. I'm just glad that
        > > > > I was able to retain my sanity.
        > > > >
        > > > > P: So I joined this group [ESA] to
        > > > > entertain my skeptical side, having
        > > > > had a tendency to be a bit too "faithful"
        > > > > about things I have yet to gain real
        > > > > knowledge of.
        > > > >
        > > > > ME: I've always been the skeptic
        > > > > and wasn't much of a joiner. I always
        > > > > had trouble fully accepting/believing
        > > > > the hype. And, I never liked the
        > > > > emotional approaches some groups
        > > > > took.
        > > > >
        > > > > P: Personal experience is, in my mind,
        > > > > the only thing that proves anything
        > > > > conclusively and then only for the
        > > > > person in question. I have no way
        > > > > of knowing the reality of other people's
        > > > > experience and so I work to have
        > > > > respect for the viewpoints of others
        > > > > and try to find common areas of
        > > > > understanding by offering my
        > > > > perspective and learning from the
        > > > > (hopefully honest and true) experiences
        > > > > of others.
        > > > >
        > > > > ME: Yes! Others can help us to get to
        > > > > a certain point. But, everything involving
        > > > > God or Spirit or Whatever requires subjective
        > > > > (personal) experiences in both the outer
        > > > > and inner realities of our lives. However,
        > > > > one needs to be objective and free of
        > > > > religious opinions in order to find Truth.
        > > > > Unfortunately, religions (Eckankar) requires
        > > > > one to become attached to the opinions
        > > > > of the leader (and those "higher" than
        > > > > yourself), dogma, laws, rules, guidelines,
        > > > > belief, faith, hope, promises, scripture,
        > > > > tradition, objects (buildings), ceremonies,
        > > > > initiation rank, etc.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > P: So... I am curious whether this group
        > > > > holds to its statement:
        > > > >
        > > > > "We, also, cover the concerns and
        > > > > critical thinking involving the consciousness
        > > > > and workings of ALL societies, religions,
        > > > > and governments and the world as
        > > > > a whole.
        > > > >
        > > > > Let's share our opinions, new insights
        > > > > & perspectives of NOT ONLY Eckankar,
        > > > > but of other religions, organizations,
        > > > > governments and their leaders too.
        > > > > Be respectful to your fellow site members."
        > > > >
        > > > > ME: I can't speak for the group. I wrote
        > > > > that long ago and I do sometimes approach
        > > > > other topics such as: All Religions Are Scams!
        > > > > Basically I wrote that because I thought people
        > > > > could tie-in other subjects to the main focus
        > > > > which is the Scam of Eckankar which Twitchell
        > > > > created and Klemp and Company inherited.
        > > > >
        > > > > P: Or... if it is ONLY a negative, reactionary
        > > > > and closed-minded forum for disgruntled
        > > > > ex-members of Eckankar as also expressed
        > > > > in the description and mainly by Prometheus_
        > > > > 973 in the discussion. If so, I have plenty
        > > > > of other better ways to spend my time.
        > > > >
        > > > > ME: Actually some members are Not ex-ECKists.
        > > > > They are current card carrying ECKists. Some
        > > > > just don't post... they Read only, but want the
        > > > > member benefits of email notification and
        > > > > access to the Files. BTW- We aren't here to
        > > > > have a discussion on whether Eckankar or
        > > > > Klemp is being truthful or is a valid religion.
        > > > >
        > > > > After all, Klemp cannot actually communicate
        > > > > with his chelas on the "inner" (as he claims
        > > > > with his Mahanta powers) or else he would
        > > > > not need to have a computer generated
        > > > > initiation list sent to RESAs for their recommendation/
        > > > > approval.
        > > > >
        > > > > And, why the monthly IROs if there
        > > > > is "Inner communication" with the
        > > > > All Knowing Master?
        > > > >
        > > > > Why aren't there "inner" Seminars, or
        > > > > "inner Satsang classes" scheduled for
        > > > > local areas? The same goes for "inner
        > > > > Book discussions." Where's the proof
        > > > > in the pudding for all the claims?
        > > > >
        > > > > It's all talk and promises and imagination!
        > > > > Sure, some people will see Rebazar or
        > > > > other guys before even seeing their pic.
        > > > > But, this happens in other religions too
        > > > > with seeing Jesus or Buddha or Krishna
        > > > > or Kirpal Singh (Paul's real Master), etc.
        > > > > etc. And, their stories and miracles are
        > > > > better than the ones Eckists have! Why
        > > > > is that (Google miracles)? Shouldn't a
        > > > > card carrying Eckist have even greater
        > > > > miracles and events happen to them
        > > > > since they are closer/higher to God?
        > > > > One would think so, but No!
        > > > >
        > > > > And, of course, the Truth will be
        > > > > a "negative" and hurtful view of Eckankar
        > > > > as seen by brain-washed ECKists.
        > > > > I would have seen it the same way
        > > > > at one time and become angry. You
        > > > > have to buy into it all for it to "work"
        > > > > mentally/spiritually. When a person
        > > > > (Eckist) has put in that much time and
        > > > > money and effort to make rank. You
        > > > > (self/ego) is going to defend your choices
        > > > > even though there are things and people
        > > > > in the ESC org/church or Satsang Society
        > > > > that you don't like or want to work with
        > > > > or for.
        > > > >
        > > > > The Klemp's getting angry with that Third
        > > > > Fill-in Postal Clerk in the 9/200(?) H.I.
        > > > > Letter showed that something was still wrong.
        > > > > [It's listed in the Files].
        > > > >
        > > > > Plus there's the EMR/EMF thing that started
        > > > > around 1991 and still bothers Klemp.
        > > > >
        > > > > How about the Polarians and Adom and Ede
        > > > > and the Garden of Eden Myth? This is printed
        > > > > in the Shariyat!
        > > > >
        > > > > How about what is written in the Shariyat 1
        > > > > about the Virgin Birth of the Mahanta when
        > > > > Klemp is the 2nd son? How can HK be the
        > > > > Mahanta? Is ECK Scripture wrong? Is it
        > > > > negative to mention this?
        > > > >
        > > > > There's more of course, but let's face it
        > > > > an ECKist cannot ask questions after
        > > > > the 2nd initiation due to maintaining the
        > > > > Law of Silence (one must go to the inner).
        > > > > This is a control tactic of religion. One
        > > > > must learn to Surrender, and Service will
        > > > > keep you too busy to think critically or
        > > > > to ask difficult questions. If questions
        > > > > are asked the H.I. grapevine will notify
        > > > > the RESA Police and this will cause some
        > > > > Eckists to be Black Listed on Initiations
        > > > > for at least three-five years or until
        > > > > another RESA is chosen.
        > > > >
        > > > > Maybe you should find something else
        > > > > to occupy your time. Live life! Let go
        > > > > and let God!
        > > > >
        > > > > Personally, I felt a huge weight (stress)
        > > > > lifted from my shoulders when I finally
        > > > > made the decision to quit Eckankar.
        > > > > It was a wonderful and a spiritual
        > > > > experience! But, it was very difficult not
        > > > > looking to or asking the mahanta for help.
        > > > >
        > > > > I finally looked to my Self and to Spirit.
        > > > > This is how I became religion free and
        > > > > Spiritually Free. I am my own master
        > > > > and I have my own personal religion...
        > > > > as it should be.
        > > > >
        > > > > But, others need experts and holy men
        > > > > to look up to because it helps them to
        > > > > believe. Of course, that's what causes the
        > > > > problems for everyone else. BTW- The
        > > > > social connections can be made outside
        > > > > of church and I didn't want to hang out
        > > > > with too many Eckists anyway.
        > > > >
        > > > > Or, go to the 2010 EWWS and celebrate the
        > > > > "Year of the ECK Teacher" again. I hear there
        > > > > will be another "Acres of Diamonds Meeting"
        > > > > and an ECK "Arahata Skills Workshop" again.
        > > > > Oh, and I hear that there will be an "ECK-Vidya
        > > > > Workshop" even though Eckankar (Klemp)
        > > > > no longer sells PT's ECK-Vidya book. And,
        > > > > there's that revisit to the Temple and walking
        > > > > the Contemplation Trails (again).
        > > > >
        > > > > P: Awaiting any new and enlightening information,
        > > > > Peter
        > > > >
        > > > > ME: The info has been given. But, one needs
        > > > > the ears to hear it and the eyes to see it. You,
        > > > > still, might not be ready to go it alone with
        > > > > Soul and with Spirit but that's okay... you're
        > > > > not alone.
        > > > >
        > > > > Prometheus
        > > > >
        > > > > prometheus_973 wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > It's the "Year of the Teacher" again.
        > > > > However, words have two meanings.
        > > > > In Eckankar "Teacher," also, refers to
        > > > > or means Arahata and this refers to
        > > > > or means a 2nd Initiate. Aren't ECKists
        > > > > going backwards? Isn't revisiting the
        > > > > past each year considered as "Spiritual
        > > > > Devolution versus Evolution?"
        > > > >
        > > > > Klemp and Company are substituting
        > > > > talk (sharing and stories), social interaction,
        > > > > feelings from the 4th "Heart" chakra,
        > > > > Temple tours, retraining classes, HU
        > > > > chants (with focus on the 6th Chakra)
        > > > > and entertainment for Spirituality. It's
        > > > > a Physical, Astral, Causal, and Mental
        > > > > exercise, especially, when one projects
        > > > > expectations via the mind's imagination.
        > > > > BTW-All Chakras (even the highest Crown
        > > > > Chakra which ECKankar doesn't use)
        > > > > are seen by them as being Astral Plane.
        > > > >
        > > > > So, after 29 years with Klemp in charge
        > > > > ECKists are encouraged to make an
        > > > > expensive pilgrimage (during a recession)
        > > > > to visit the EK Temple and to see and
        > > > > hear the Klempster in person. This
        > > > > is odd (or is it? $$$) because one would
        > > > > think that "the most advanced spiritual
        > > > > path" on the planet would encourage
        > > > > "INNER" visitations, meetings, satsangs,
        > > > > and Worldwide Seminars!
        > > > >
        > > > > Why aren't there "Inner" ECK Worldwide
        > > > > Seminars? Aren't ECKists advanced
        > > > > enough after all of this time? At least
        > > > > have an Inner Worldwide for Higher Initiates...
        > > > > right?!
        > > > >
        > > > > Aren't ECKists encouraged to visit the
        > > > > Physical Plane ECK Temple in Chanhassen
        > > > > on the "Inner Plane" as well as other
        > > > > Physical Plane and Inner Plane Temples?
        > > > > Sure!
        > > > >
        > > > > So, why is it necessary to travel to
        > > > > Minnesota to see and hear Klemp or
        > > > > to visit the EK Temple there? Do ECKists
        > > > > need the retraining, or do they need
        > > > > to reinforce their delusional beliefs that
        > > > > Eckankar and Klemp are so much more
        > > > > "advanced" than other religions and
        > > > > other religious leaders?
        > > > >
        > > > > ECKists need to remember one thing:
        > > > > Keep smiling... it looks good and fools
        > > > > people!
        > > > >
        > > > > Prometheus
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        >
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