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Re: Life Goes On!

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Mish and All, Thanks for the comments. It s nice to share things about Eckankar without having to pay and/or attending a cult busting seminar.
    Message 1 of 6 , May 12, 2010
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      Hello Mish and All,
      Thanks for the comments. It's nice to share
      things about Eckankar without having to pay
      and/or attending a "cult" busting seminar.

      Sometimes I wonder if maybe the Eckankar
      thing hasn't run its course. The ECK org/religion
      is rather insignificant, especially, when looking
      at other nutty/dangerous religions.

      Look at Islam in general and Fundamentalist
      Islam especially! That's a violent, fanatical, ignorant
      and politically based religion!

      Look at the Mormon Church too!

      And, look at Fundamentalist Christianity! That's
      as bad as Fundamentalist Islam! It's the U.S. version
      of the Taliban!

      Once again, all of these religions make women
      into second class citizens. I know that female
      ECK RESAs feel empowered, but it's a facade.
      They can never be the LEM due to nutty beliefs/
      teachings about negative atoms! Yet, they can't
      ask too many questions due to intimidation
      tactics and fear of being black-listed on
      initiations and positions of influence/power/
      spiritual growth.

      The Mormon Church is somewhat non-violent
      in its present form, but that might be due to
      smaller numbers outside of Utah.

      And, except for some Hollywood stars and
      wannabes it seems like Scientology isn't pulling
      in the numbers it once did.

      On the other hand, Fundamentalist (Old Testament
      versus New) "Christians" are mixing Right-Wing
      Fascist Politics and ideals (racism and fear) with
      religion.

      When looking at Fundamentalist Christians and
      Fundamentalist Muslims one can see that these
      are extreme "cult" members that really need attention,
      information, and intervention. Otherwise, it's a
      moot point regarding Eckankar when one puts it
      all into perspective. Maybe Colleen should redirect
      her efforts and challenge herself with "Fundamentalist
      Cult Busting." I'm sure that it would draw in larger
      numbers ($) and it's obvious that it is much more
      needed! The Eckankar thing is rather passe' when
      looking at current events. Thus, cult busting seminars
      should/could be expanded to make a more positive
      impact upon society and families in general, but
      upon women mostly! And, advertising for this could
      be done on large scale venues like FB, Twitter, etc.

      The only reason that I outed Twitchell and Klemp's
      Eckankar scam is because I was a member for
      30 years and was an ECK leader (insider) and H.I.
      under, mostly, Klemp's influence. Plus, it was good
      talk therapy for me and others who were taken
      in and fooled by this New Age cult. Eckankar only
      gives info equating to the tip-of-an-iceberg because
      one can only ask questions for a short time before
      being shunned into silence and told to look to
      the "inner." Fool me once (with Christianity) shame
      on you, fool me twice (with Eckankar) shame on me!
      Actually, shame (as with guilt) is another thing that
      people have to resolve and let go of. Live and learn,
      but one must first realize that something is wrong
      and then look for answers outside of one's normal
      cult environment by having an open mind in order
      to listen, analyze, learn and heal!

      BTW (FYI) It's Eckankar Survivors (not suvivors)
      and it's "Anonymous!" Details are important!

      Prometheus



      Mishmisha wrote:
      Hi, All!

      Just popping in to share a little bit and to let you see I still am reading some
      of the anti-eckankar sites. . . . I may not be so active on them as I once was
      but I still care! : )

      I'd love for Klemp to publish a new book like "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" . ..
      that one was so amusing for me!! Klemp had a game plan regarding his wife Joan
      that was particularly touching! LOL! The discussions/review of that book begin I
      believe back in Jan. 2005 . . . anyone who didn't follow that might find it
      interesting.

      i have been engaging in other activities . .. fun things for the most part and
      have set some life goals that are also interesting and fun for me.

      In discussing religions . .. eckankar included here . .. I've just about lost my
      respect for all of them. They are nothing more than man-made delusional
      thinking. The rules and belief systems that are set up by each are either hardly
      understood and followed or they are too much followed IMO. I was amazed recently
      by the death prayer for President Obama that has gone the rounds on FaceBook. So
      many "religious" holier than thou type people gave that a thumbs up!! They quote
      scripture and let it be known that their religion is a big part of their lives
      but yet without a thought or a blink of an eye, they can okay prayer for the
      death of someone??? I don't get it. How hateful is that . . .and obviously
      racially motivated! So, yeah, I don't "get" religious people! LOL!

      Well, it is difficult to sort life out I guess . . . so many get on one band
      wagon or another . . . and twist things around to what favors them the most . ..
      via giving lip service to a lot of things while continuing to believe they are
      righteous or spiritually advanced. . . which smacks of big time delusion. It is
      easy to see why people get led astray and fall for a lot of nonsense, including
      eckankar. Maybe this is a way to skirt being accountable for what a person does
      in the real world while allowing one to become lazy (non thinking) and not
      developing critical thinking skills. Imagining and pretending is sooooooo much
      easier, isn't it . . . and if it doesn't work out in the long run, others can be
      blamed for one's fallacies and short comings! LOL!

      I am the master of my fate but I am not my own god . . . I still believe in a
      Divine Spirit that is greater than all of us . . . and It doesn't reward or
      punish . . . It just is!

      Take care, All!

      Mish
    • Non
      I personally enjoy attending Cult busting seminars and would like to be part of a real person group. Some of us need to talk to a real person who understands
      Message 2 of 6 , May 14, 2010
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        I personally enjoy attending Cult busting seminars and would like to be part of a real person group. Some of us need to talk to a real person who understands or at least is compassionate enough and professional enough to help me transition away from that Cult mentality. On line, to me is often very risky and it can be difficult to trust who you are really corresponding with and what their true intentions are. A trained, professional Psychotherapist is bound by certain ethical standards that are actually enforceable.

        It would be nice if more of these anti cult Therapy groups could get some kind of funding or help from a benefactor, for those of us who can't afford much, but many eckists seem to be able to afford spending lots of money supporting eckankar.

        Quite often, those leaving a cult like eckankar have to do it by themselves and then may turn to the internet for help, only to find that they have been dealing with an eckie pretending to not be one. It is a common strategy of cultists to call us the anti cult cult. Which is just another form of shaming and guilting those who really just want to escape. Leaving a destructive cult is not easy. Some really do need Therapy and maybe some don't. It's not all or nothing, either/or.

        That is just my opinion.

        Non eckster ; )

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Mish and All,
        > Thanks for the comments. It's nice to share
        > things about Eckankar without having to pay
        > and/or attending a "cult" busting seminar.
        >
        > Sometimes I wonder if maybe the Eckankar
        > thing hasn't run its course. The ECK org/religion
        > is rather insignificant, especially, when looking
        > at other nutty/dangerous religions.
        >
        > Look at Islam in general and Fundamentalist
        > Islam especially! That's a violent, fanatical, ignorant
        > and politically based religion!
        >
        > Look at the Mormon Church too!
        >
        > And, look at Fundamentalist Christianity! That's
        > as bad as Fundamentalist Islam! It's the U.S. version
        > of the Taliban!
        >
        > Once again, all of these religions make women
        > into second class citizens. I know that female
        > ECK RESAs feel empowered, but it's a facade.
        > They can never be the LEM due to nutty beliefs/
        > teachings about negative atoms! Yet, they can't
        > ask too many questions due to intimidation
        > tactics and fear of being black-listed on
        > initiations and positions of influence/power/
        > spiritual growth.
        >
        > The Mormon Church is somewhat non-violent
        > in its present form, but that might be due to
        > smaller numbers outside of Utah.
        >
        > And, except for some Hollywood stars and
        > wannabes it seems like Scientology isn't pulling
        > in the numbers it once did.
        >
        > On the other hand, Fundamentalist (Old Testament
        > versus New) "Christians" are mixing Right-Wing
        > Fascist Politics and ideals (racism and fear) with
        > religion.
        >
        > When looking at Fundamentalist Christians and
        > Fundamentalist Muslims one can see that these
        > are extreme "cult" members that really need attention,
        > information, and intervention. Otherwise, it's a
        > moot point regarding Eckankar when one puts it
        > all into perspective. Maybe Colleen should redirect
        > her efforts and challenge herself with "Fundamentalist
        > Cult Busting." I'm sure that it would draw in larger
        > numbers ($) and it's obvious that it is much more
        > needed! The Eckankar thing is rather passe' when
        > looking at current events. Thus, cult busting seminars
        > should/could be expanded to make a more positive
        > impact upon society and families in general, but
        > upon women mostly! And, advertising for this could
        > be done on large scale venues like FB, Twitter, etc.
        >
        > The only reason that I outed Twitchell and Klemp's
        > Eckankar scam is because I was a member for
        > 30 years and was an ECK leader (insider) and H.I.
        > under, mostly, Klemp's influence. Plus, it was good
        > talk therapy for me and others who were taken
        > in and fooled by this New Age cult. Eckankar only
        > gives info equating to the tip-of-an-iceberg because
        > one can only ask questions for a short time before
        > being shunned into silence and told to look to
        > the "inner." Fool me once (with Christianity) shame
        > on you, fool me twice (with Eckankar) shame on me!
        > Actually, shame (as with guilt) is another thing that
        > people have to resolve and let go of. Live and learn,
        > but one must first realize that something is wrong
        > and then look for answers outside of one's normal
        > cult environment by having an open mind in order
        > to listen, analyze, learn and heal!
        >
        > BTW (FYI) It's Eckankar Survivors (not suvivors)
        > and it's "Anonymous!" Details are important!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        >
        > Mishmisha wrote:
        > Hi, All!
        >
        > Just popping in to share a little bit and to let you see I still am reading some
        > of the anti-eckankar sites. . . . I may not be so active on them as I once was
        > but I still care! : )
        >
        > I'd love for Klemp to publish a new book like "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" . ..
        > that one was so amusing for me!! Klemp had a game plan regarding his wife Joan
        > that was particularly touching! LOL! The discussions/review of that book begin I
        > believe back in Jan. 2005 . . . anyone who didn't follow that might find it
        > interesting.
        >
        > i have been engaging in other activities . .. fun things for the most part and
        > have set some life goals that are also interesting and fun for me.
        >
        > In discussing religions . .. eckankar included here . .. I've just about lost my
        > respect for all of them. They are nothing more than man-made delusional
        > thinking. The rules and belief systems that are set up by each are either hardly
        > understood and followed or they are too much followed IMO. I was amazed recently
        > by the death prayer for President Obama that has gone the rounds on FaceBook. So
        > many "religious" holier than thou type people gave that a thumbs up!! They quote
        > scripture and let it be known that their religion is a big part of their lives
        > but yet without a thought or a blink of an eye, they can okay prayer for the
        > death of someone??? I don't get it. How hateful is that . . .and obviously
        > racially motivated! So, yeah, I don't "get" religious people! LOL!
        >
        > Well, it is difficult to sort life out I guess . . . so many get on one band
        > wagon or another . . . and twist things around to what favors them the most . ..
        > via giving lip service to a lot of things while continuing to believe they are
        > righteous or spiritually advanced. . . which smacks of big time delusion. It is
        > easy to see why people get led astray and fall for a lot of nonsense, including
        > eckankar. Maybe this is a way to skirt being accountable for what a person does
        > in the real world while allowing one to become lazy (non thinking) and not
        > developing critical thinking skills. Imagining and pretending is sooooooo much
        > easier, isn't it . . . and if it doesn't work out in the long run, others can be
        > blamed for one's fallacies and short comings! LOL!
        >
        > I am the master of my fate but I am not my own god . . . I still believe in a
        > Divine Spirit that is greater than all of us . . . and It doesn't reward or
        > punish . . . It just is!
        >
        > Take care, All!
        >
        > Mish
        >
      • mishmisha9
        Hi, Non! I agree that it is a good thing to seek out help in dealing with life troubling experiences . . .in fact, I have benefited from some therapy in the
        Message 3 of 6 , May 16, 2010
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          Hi, Non!

          I agree that it is a good thing to seek out help in dealing with life troubling experiences . . .in fact, I have benefited from some therapy in the past. It is very healthy and a smart thing to do.

          However, recommending therapists might not be so prudent when one really doesn't know the therapist or the therapist's works. I think this is in regard to Colleen not having her advertising of her workshops posted on this site . . .

          Many of us do not know Colleen and beyond wanting to publicize her seminar events, she has not bothered to engage on this message board. But it is not a biggie for anyone here or there as most of us do read other ex eckankar sites where she is allowed to post those things. I'm not sure she has much current eckankar knowledge . . . under the rulership of Klemp. Eckankar certainly has changed from the days of Paul Twitchell. But it would be interesting to know her take on the modern eckankar as well as the olden one.

          I think it would be great if she did share her story here but for some reason she has chosen not to do that . . . .maybe she is tired of sharing? I'm not sure. I'm rather puzzled by that . .. there is a certain give and take on message boards and sharing is very important.

          But yes there are workshops and seminars that might be very helpful and worthwhile . . . but I certainly do not know of any that I would recommend . . . and I would not want to mislead anyone more than I did when I tooted the silly horn of eckankar. I have to step back from that sort of thing . . . I only offer my experiences and my opinions on here, that is all I can do. Whether it is helpful to anyone . . . who knows?

          Well, back to fun things in life! : )

          Mish


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non" <eckchains@...> wrote:
          >
          > I personally enjoy attending Cult busting seminars and would like to be part of a real person group. Some of us need to talk to a real person who understands or at least is compassionate enough and professional enough to help me transition away from that Cult mentality. On line, to me is often very risky and it can be difficult to trust who you are really corresponding with and what their true intentions are. A trained, professional Psychotherapist is bound by certain ethical standards that are actually enforceable.
          >
          > It would be nice if more of these anti cult Therapy groups could get some kind of funding or help from a benefactor, for those of us who can't afford much, but many eckists seem to be able to afford spending lots of money supporting eckankar.
          >
          > Quite often, those leaving a cult like eckankar have to do it by themselves and then may turn to the internet for help, only to find that they have been dealing with an eckie pretending to not be one. It is a common strategy of cultists to call us the anti cult cult. Which is just another form of shaming and guilting those who really just want to escape. Leaving a destructive cult is not easy. Some really do need Therapy and maybe some don't. It's not all or nothing, either/or.
          >
          > That is just my opinion.
          >
          > Non eckster ; )
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello Mish and All,
          > > Thanks for the comments. It's nice to share
          > > things about Eckankar without having to pay
          > > and/or attending a "cult" busting seminar.
          > >
          > > Sometimes I wonder if maybe the Eckankar
          > > thing hasn't run its course. The ECK org/religion
          > > is rather insignificant, especially, when looking
          > > at other nutty/dangerous religions.
          > >
          > > Look at Islam in general and Fundamentalist
          > > Islam especially! That's a violent, fanatical, ignorant
          > > and politically based religion!
          > >
          > > Look at the Mormon Church too!
          > >
          > > And, look at Fundamentalist Christianity! That's
          > > as bad as Fundamentalist Islam! It's the U.S. version
          > > of the Taliban!
          > >
          > > Once again, all of these religions make women
          > > into second class citizens. I know that female
          > > ECK RESAs feel empowered, but it's a facade.
          > > They can never be the LEM due to nutty beliefs/
          > > teachings about negative atoms! Yet, they can't
          > > ask too many questions due to intimidation
          > > tactics and fear of being black-listed on
          > > initiations and positions of influence/power/
          > > spiritual growth.
          > >
          > > The Mormon Church is somewhat non-violent
          > > in its present form, but that might be due to
          > > smaller numbers outside of Utah.
          > >
          > > And, except for some Hollywood stars and
          > > wannabes it seems like Scientology isn't pulling
          > > in the numbers it once did.
          > >
          > > On the other hand, Fundamentalist (Old Testament
          > > versus New) "Christians" are mixing Right-Wing
          > > Fascist Politics and ideals (racism and fear) with
          > > religion.
          > >
          > > When looking at Fundamentalist Christians and
          > > Fundamentalist Muslims one can see that these
          > > are extreme "cult" members that really need attention,
          > > information, and intervention. Otherwise, it's a
          > > moot point regarding Eckankar when one puts it
          > > all into perspective. Maybe Colleen should redirect
          > > her efforts and challenge herself with "Fundamentalist
          > > Cult Busting." I'm sure that it would draw in larger
          > > numbers ($) and it's obvious that it is much more
          > > needed! The Eckankar thing is rather passe' when
          > > looking at current events. Thus, cult busting seminars
          > > should/could be expanded to make a more positive
          > > impact upon society and families in general, but
          > > upon women mostly! And, advertising for this could
          > > be done on large scale venues like FB, Twitter, etc.
          > >
          > > The only reason that I outed Twitchell and Klemp's
          > > Eckankar scam is because I was a member for
          > > 30 years and was an ECK leader (insider) and H.I.
          > > under, mostly, Klemp's influence. Plus, it was good
          > > talk therapy for me and others who were taken
          > > in and fooled by this New Age cult. Eckankar only
          > > gives info equating to the tip-of-an-iceberg because
          > > one can only ask questions for a short time before
          > > being shunned into silence and told to look to
          > > the "inner." Fool me once (with Christianity) shame
          > > on you, fool me twice (with Eckankar) shame on me!
          > > Actually, shame (as with guilt) is another thing that
          > > people have to resolve and let go of. Live and learn,
          > > but one must first realize that something is wrong
          > > and then look for answers outside of one's normal
          > > cult environment by having an open mind in order
          > > to listen, analyze, learn and heal!
          > >
          > > BTW (FYI) It's Eckankar Survivors (not suvivors)
          > > and it's "Anonymous!" Details are important!
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Mishmisha wrote:
          > > Hi, All!
          > >
          > > Just popping in to share a little bit and to let you see I still am reading some
          > > of the anti-eckankar sites. . . . I may not be so active on them as I once was
          > > but I still care! : )
          > >
          > > I'd love for Klemp to publish a new book like "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" . ..
          > > that one was so amusing for me!! Klemp had a game plan regarding his wife Joan
          > > that was particularly touching! LOL! The discussions/review of that book begin I
          > > believe back in Jan. 2005 . . . anyone who didn't follow that might find it
          > > interesting.
          > >
          > > i have been engaging in other activities . .. fun things for the most part and
          > > have set some life goals that are also interesting and fun for me.
          > >
          > > In discussing religions . .. eckankar included here . .. I've just about lost my
          > > respect for all of them. They are nothing more than man-made delusional
          > > thinking. The rules and belief systems that are set up by each are either hardly
          > > understood and followed or they are too much followed IMO. I was amazed recently
          > > by the death prayer for President Obama that has gone the rounds on FaceBook. So
          > > many "religious" holier than thou type people gave that a thumbs up!! They quote
          > > scripture and let it be known that their religion is a big part of their lives
          > > but yet without a thought or a blink of an eye, they can okay prayer for the
          > > death of someone??? I don't get it. How hateful is that . . .and obviously
          > > racially motivated! So, yeah, I don't "get" religious people! LOL!
          > >
          > > Well, it is difficult to sort life out I guess . . . so many get on one band
          > > wagon or another . . . and twist things around to what favors them the most . ..
          > > via giving lip service to a lot of things while continuing to believe they are
          > > righteous or spiritually advanced. . . which smacks of big time delusion. It is
          > > easy to see why people get led astray and fall for a lot of nonsense, including
          > > eckankar. Maybe this is a way to skirt being accountable for what a person does
          > > in the real world while allowing one to become lazy (non thinking) and not
          > > developing critical thinking skills. Imagining and pretending is sooooooo much
          > > easier, isn't it . . . and if it doesn't work out in the long run, others can be
          > > blamed for one's fallacies and short comings! LOL!
          > >
          > > I am the master of my fate but I am not my own god . . . I still believe in a
          > > Divine Spirit that is greater than all of us . . . and It doesn't reward or
          > > punish . . . It just is!
          > >
          > > Take care, All!
          > >
          > > Mish
          > >
          >
        • Non
          Hi Mish! My main point is that it is difficult to find anyone who is really good at dealing with recovery from nasty cults like eckankar. I came across some
          Message 4 of 6 , May 24, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Mish!

            My main point is that it is difficult to find anyone who is really good at dealing with recovery from nasty cults like eckankar. I came across some suggestions for choosing a professional Therapist if so needed or wanted. (I'll try to find that and post.) It is easy to end up with someone who knows little about "Cults" and there are sometimes bad Therapists too, but they can be reported to regulatory agencies. Anyone should be encouraged to do research and even an interview with the Therapist before deciding to go with that person. The Client is always in charge, and that should never be forgotten.

            It can be beneficial imo to find a good Therapist who is sincerely interested in finding out about Cults and how adverse their influence can be, and that it is true that even the most intelligent person can end up falling for a Cult Con. There are some Therapists who may blame you as the victim, and focus on your wild weird stories and Cult leader beliefs as somehow an indication of your diagnosis, when what is really going on is recovery from a form of PTSD and of course the techniques of Brain Washing. Imagine telling an inexperienced Therapist that you actually believed that you were actually visiting with some super conscious human being for which there is no proof whatsoever that they do or have ever existed, or that you are troubled by the fact that you had developed a God Complex, etc.

            Several decades ago, some Therapists did not believe that sexual abuse or other forms of child abuse could have really happened, and would be dismissive. Even Freud made that mistake, and somehow made the patient have to come to terms with his theory that the children are sexually seducing their parents. The reasons for this, are simply that Freud had a hard time believing that there was so much sexual abuse going on, especially among the affluent and educated. Anyway, as this has gradually changed, it is also changing in understanding how ordinary people are abused by Religious Cult leaders and other types of Cults.

            Someone who has studied Cult literature and research or who has left one and has personal experience may be preferable. And even so, that Therapist may be a good match and also may not be a good match. It is more likely though, that it would be a better match. Just like an ex eckist may end up being a really horrible person any way, as I have experienced online in the past. The group I run now, The Chains of Eck... was first started by such a person, who gained my trust, asked me if I wanted to take over her group, and then when I agreed, turned into a really nasty bitch, even though I did nothing to deserve being dumped on. It was like a split personality or something. That is why, I say it is a good idea to make sure you know the person, not necessarily an easy thing to do. Some never really escape the Cult mentality, IMO.

            Non eckster ; )

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi, Non!
            >
            > I agree that it is a good thing to seek out help in dealing with life troubling experiences . . .in fact, I have benefited from some therapy in the past. It is very healthy and a smart thing to do.
            >
            > However, recommending therapists might not be so prudent when one really doesn't know the therapist or the therapist's works. I think this is in regard to Colleen not having her advertising of her workshops posted on this site . . .
            >
            > Many of us do not know Colleen and beyond wanting to publicize her seminar events, she has not bothered to engage on this message board. But it is not a biggie for anyone here or there as most of us do read other ex eckankar sites where she is allowed to post those things. I'm not sure she has much current eckankar knowledge . . . under the rulership of Klemp. Eckankar certainly has changed from the days of Paul Twitchell. But it would be interesting to know her take on the modern eckankar as well as the olden one.
            >
            > I think it would be great if she did share her story here but for some reason she has chosen not to do that . . . .maybe she is tired of sharing? I'm not sure. I'm rather puzzled by that . .. there is a certain give and take on message boards and sharing is very important.
            >
            > But yes there are workshops and seminars that might be very helpful and worthwhile . . . but I certainly do not know of any that I would recommend . . . and I would not want to mislead anyone more than I did when I tooted the silly horn of eckankar. I have to step back from that sort of thing . . . I only offer my experiences and my opinions on here, that is all I can do. Whether it is helpful to anyone . . . who knows?
            >
            > Well, back to fun things in life! : )
            >
            > Mish
            >
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non" <eckchains@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I personally enjoy attending Cult busting seminars and would like to be part of a real person group. Some of us need to talk to a real person who understands or at least is compassionate enough and professional enough to help me transition away from that Cult mentality. On line, to me is often very risky and it can be difficult to trust who you are really corresponding with and what their true intentions are. A trained, professional Psychotherapist is bound by certain ethical standards that are actually enforceable.
            > >
            > > It would be nice if more of these anti cult Therapy groups could get some kind of funding or help from a benefactor, for those of us who can't afford much, but many eckists seem to be able to afford spending lots of money supporting eckankar.
            > >
            > > Quite often, those leaving a cult like eckankar have to do it by themselves and then may turn to the internet for help, only to find that they have been dealing with an eckie pretending to not be one. It is a common strategy of cultists to call us the anti cult cult. Which is just another form of shaming and guilting those who really just want to escape. Leaving a destructive cult is not easy. Some really do need Therapy and maybe some don't. It's not all or nothing, either/or.
            > >
            > > That is just my opinion.
            > >
            > > Non eckster ; )
            > >
            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello Mish and All,
            > > > Thanks for the comments. It's nice to share
            > > > things about Eckankar without having to pay
            > > > and/or attending a "cult" busting seminar.
            > > >
            > > > Sometimes I wonder if maybe the Eckankar
            > > > thing hasn't run its course. The ECK org/religion
            > > > is rather insignificant, especially, when looking
            > > > at other nutty/dangerous religions.
            > > >
            > > > Look at Islam in general and Fundamentalist
            > > > Islam especially! That's a violent, fanatical, ignorant
            > > > and politically based religion!
            > > >
            > > > Look at the Mormon Church too!
            > > >
            > > > And, look at Fundamentalist Christianity! That's
            > > > as bad as Fundamentalist Islam! It's the U.S. version
            > > > of the Taliban!
            > > >
            > > > Once again, all of these religions make women
            > > > into second class citizens. I know that female
            > > > ECK RESAs feel empowered, but it's a facade.
            > > > They can never be the LEM due to nutty beliefs/
            > > > teachings about negative atoms! Yet, they can't
            > > > ask too many questions due to intimidation
            > > > tactics and fear of being black-listed on
            > > > initiations and positions of influence/power/
            > > > spiritual growth.
            > > >
            > > > The Mormon Church is somewhat non-violent
            > > > in its present form, but that might be due to
            > > > smaller numbers outside of Utah.
            > > >
            > > > And, except for some Hollywood stars and
            > > > wannabes it seems like Scientology isn't pulling
            > > > in the numbers it once did.
            > > >
            > > > On the other hand, Fundamentalist (Old Testament
            > > > versus New) "Christians" are mixing Right-Wing
            > > > Fascist Politics and ideals (racism and fear) with
            > > > religion.
            > > >
            > > > When looking at Fundamentalist Christians and
            > > > Fundamentalist Muslims one can see that these
            > > > are extreme "cult" members that really need attention,
            > > > information, and intervention. Otherwise, it's a
            > > > moot point regarding Eckankar when one puts it
            > > > all into perspective. Maybe Colleen should redirect
            > > > her efforts and challenge herself with "Fundamentalist
            > > > Cult Busting." I'm sure that it would draw in larger
            > > > numbers ($) and it's obvious that it is much more
            > > > needed! The Eckankar thing is rather passe' when
            > > > looking at current events. Thus, cult busting seminars
            > > > should/could be expanded to make a more positive
            > > > impact upon society and families in general, but
            > > > upon women mostly! And, advertising for this could
            > > > be done on large scale venues like FB, Twitter, etc.
            > > >
            > > > The only reason that I outed Twitchell and Klemp's
            > > > Eckankar scam is because I was a member for
            > > > 30 years and was an ECK leader (insider) and H.I.
            > > > under, mostly, Klemp's influence. Plus, it was good
            > > > talk therapy for me and others who were taken
            > > > in and fooled by this New Age cult. Eckankar only
            > > > gives info equating to the tip-of-an-iceberg because
            > > > one can only ask questions for a short time before
            > > > being shunned into silence and told to look to
            > > > the "inner." Fool me once (with Christianity) shame
            > > > on you, fool me twice (with Eckankar) shame on me!
            > > > Actually, shame (as with guilt) is another thing that
            > > > people have to resolve and let go of. Live and learn,
            > > > but one must first realize that something is wrong
            > > > and then look for answers outside of one's normal
            > > > cult environment by having an open mind in order
            > > > to listen, analyze, learn and heal!
            > > >
            > > > BTW (FYI) It's Eckankar Survivors (not suvivors)
            > > > and it's "Anonymous!" Details are important!
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Mishmisha wrote:
            > > > Hi, All!
            > > >
            > > > Just popping in to share a little bit and to let you see I still am reading some
            > > > of the anti-eckankar sites. . . . I may not be so active on them as I once was
            > > > but I still care! : )
            > > >
            > > > I'd love for Klemp to publish a new book like "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" . ..
            > > > that one was so amusing for me!! Klemp had a game plan regarding his wife Joan
            > > > that was particularly touching! LOL! The discussions/review of that book begin I
            > > > believe back in Jan. 2005 . . . anyone who didn't follow that might find it
            > > > interesting.
            > > >
            > > > i have been engaging in other activities . .. fun things for the most part and
            > > > have set some life goals that are also interesting and fun for me.
            > > >
            > > > In discussing religions . .. eckankar included here . .. I've just about lost my
            > > > respect for all of them. They are nothing more than man-made delusional
            > > > thinking. The rules and belief systems that are set up by each are either hardly
            > > > understood and followed or they are too much followed IMO. I was amazed recently
            > > > by the death prayer for President Obama that has gone the rounds on FaceBook. So
            > > > many "religious" holier than thou type people gave that a thumbs up!! They quote
            > > > scripture and let it be known that their religion is a big part of their lives
            > > > but yet without a thought or a blink of an eye, they can okay prayer for the
            > > > death of someone??? I don't get it. How hateful is that . . .and obviously
            > > > racially motivated! So, yeah, I don't "get" religious people! LOL!
            > > >
            > > > Well, it is difficult to sort life out I guess . . . so many get on one band
            > > > wagon or another . . . and twist things around to what favors them the most . ..
            > > > via giving lip service to a lot of things while continuing to believe they are
            > > > righteous or spiritually advanced. . . which smacks of big time delusion. It is
            > > > easy to see why people get led astray and fall for a lot of nonsense, including
            > > > eckankar. Maybe this is a way to skirt being accountable for what a person does
            > > > in the real world while allowing one to become lazy (non thinking) and not
            > > > developing critical thinking skills. Imagining and pretending is sooooooo much
            > > > easier, isn't it . . . and if it doesn't work out in the long run, others can be
            > > > blamed for one's fallacies and short comings! LOL!
            > > >
            > > > I am the master of my fate but I am not my own god . . . I still believe in a
            > > > Divine Spirit that is greater than all of us . . . and It doesn't reward or
            > > > punish . . . It just is!
            > > >
            > > > Take care, All!
            > > >
            > > > Mish
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • mishmisha9
            I agree with you whole-heartedly and glad you have posted your thoughts about therapy for ex-cult experiencers. I just want to add that if someone wants to
            Message 5 of 6 , May 26, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              I agree with you whole-heartedly and glad you have posted your thoughts about therapy for ex-cult experiencers.

              I just want to add that if someone wants to post about workshops and therapy groups, it is best to introduce oneself and participate here first . . . even if it might seem that person is well known on other ex-eckankar groups. Lurking doesn't count! LOL!

              Sharing information and suggesting links, books and other help materials are good ideas. But just using this board for advertising only, really isn't the right way to go about it.

              BTW, I did receive a private email from someone named Wendy . .. If I don't know you, I don't reply from my email box but thanks for your email! Please don't be afraid to post . .. unless you wanting to attack a member here . . .

              Mish


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non" <eckchains@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Mish!
              >
              > My main point is that it is difficult to find anyone who is really good at dealing with recovery from nasty cults like eckankar. I came across some suggestions for choosing a professional Therapist if so needed or wanted. (I'll try to find that and post.) It is easy to end up with someone who knows little about "Cults" and there are sometimes bad Therapists too, but they can be reported to regulatory agencies. Anyone should be encouraged to do research and even an interview with the Therapist before deciding to go with that person. The Client is always in charge, and that should never be forgotten.
              >
              > It can be beneficial imo to find a good Therapist who is sincerely interested in finding out about Cults and how adverse their influence can be, and that it is true that even the most intelligent person can end up falling for a Cult Con. There are some Therapists who may blame you as the victim, and focus on your wild weird stories and Cult leader beliefs as somehow an indication of your diagnosis, when what is really going on is recovery from a form of PTSD and of course the techniques of Brain Washing. Imagine telling an inexperienced Therapist that you actually believed that you were actually visiting with some super conscious human being for which there is no proof whatsoever that they do or have ever existed, or that you are troubled by the fact that you had developed a God Complex, etc.
              >
              > Several decades ago, some Therapists did not believe that sexual abuse or other forms of child abuse could have really happened, and would be dismissive. Even Freud made that mistake, and somehow made the patient have to come to terms with his theory that the children are sexually seducing their parents. The reasons for this, are simply that Freud had a hard time believing that there was so much sexual abuse going on, especially among the affluent and educated. Anyway, as this has gradually changed, it is also changing in understanding how ordinary people are abused by Religious Cult leaders and other types of Cults.
              >
              > Someone who has studied Cult literature and research or who has left one and has personal experience may be preferable. And even so, that Therapist may be a good match and also may not be a good match. It is more likely though, that it would be a better match. Just like an ex eckist may end up being a really horrible person any way, as I have experienced online in the past. The group I run now, The Chains of Eck... was first started by such a person, who gained my trust, asked me if I wanted to take over her group, and then when I agreed, turned into a really nasty bitch, even though I did nothing to deserve being dumped on. It was like a split personality or something. That is why, I say it is a good idea to make sure you know the person, not necessarily an easy thing to do. Some never really escape the Cult mentality, IMO.
              >
              > Non eckster ; )
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi, Non!
              > >
              > > I agree that it is a good thing to seek out help in dealing with life troubling experiences . . .in fact, I have benefited from some therapy in the past. It is very healthy and a smart thing to do.
              > >
              > > However, recommending therapists might not be so prudent when one really doesn't know the therapist or the therapist's works. I think this is in regard to Colleen not having her advertising of her workshops posted on this site . . .
              > >
              > > Many of us do not know Colleen and beyond wanting to publicize her seminar events, she has not bothered to engage on this message board. But it is not a biggie for anyone here or there as most of us do read other ex eckankar sites where she is allowed to post those things. I'm not sure she has much current eckankar knowledge . . . under the rulership of Klemp. Eckankar certainly has changed from the days of Paul Twitchell. But it would be interesting to know her take on the modern eckankar as well as the olden one.
              > >
              > > I think it would be great if she did share her story here but for some reason she has chosen not to do that . . . .maybe she is tired of sharing? I'm not sure. I'm rather puzzled by that . .. there is a certain give and take on message boards and sharing is very important.
              > >
              > > But yes there are workshops and seminars that might be very helpful and worthwhile . . . but I certainly do not know of any that I would recommend . . . and I would not want to mislead anyone more than I did when I tooted the silly horn of eckankar. I have to step back from that sort of thing . . . I only offer my experiences and my opinions on here, that is all I can do. Whether it is helpful to anyone . . . who knows?
              > >
              > > Well, back to fun things in life! : )
              > >
              > > Mish
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non" <eckchains@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I personally enjoy attending Cult busting seminars and would like to be part of a real person group. Some of us need to talk to a real person who understands or at least is compassionate enough and professional enough to help me transition away from that Cult mentality. On line, to me is often very risky and it can be difficult to trust who you are really corresponding with and what their true intentions are. A trained, professional Psychotherapist is bound by certain ethical standards that are actually enforceable.
              > > >
              > > > It would be nice if more of these anti cult Therapy groups could get some kind of funding or help from a benefactor, for those of us who can't afford much, but many eckists seem to be able to afford spending lots of money supporting eckankar.
              > > >
              > > > Quite often, those leaving a cult like eckankar have to do it by themselves and then may turn to the internet for help, only to find that they have been dealing with an eckie pretending to not be one. It is a common strategy of cultists to call us the anti cult cult. Which is just another form of shaming and guilting those who really just want to escape. Leaving a destructive cult is not easy. Some really do need Therapy and maybe some don't. It's not all or nothing, either/or.
              > > >
              > > > That is just my opinion.
              > > >
              > > > Non eckster ; )
              > > >
              > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hello Mish and All,
              > > > > Thanks for the comments. It's nice to share
              > > > > things about Eckankar without having to pay
              > > > > and/or attending a "cult" busting seminar.
              > > > >
              > > > > Sometimes I wonder if maybe the Eckankar
              > > > > thing hasn't run its course. The ECK org/religion
              > > > > is rather insignificant, especially, when looking
              > > > > at other nutty/dangerous religions.
              > > > >
              > > > > Look at Islam in general and Fundamentalist
              > > > > Islam especially! That's a violent, fanatical, ignorant
              > > > > and politically based religion!
              > > > >
              > > > > Look at the Mormon Church too!
              > > > >
              > > > > And, look at Fundamentalist Christianity! That's
              > > > > as bad as Fundamentalist Islam! It's the U.S. version
              > > > > of the Taliban!
              > > > >
              > > > > Once again, all of these religions make women
              > > > > into second class citizens. I know that female
              > > > > ECK RESAs feel empowered, but it's a facade.
              > > > > They can never be the LEM due to nutty beliefs/
              > > > > teachings about negative atoms! Yet, they can't
              > > > > ask too many questions due to intimidation
              > > > > tactics and fear of being black-listed on
              > > > > initiations and positions of influence/power/
              > > > > spiritual growth.
              > > > >
              > > > > The Mormon Church is somewhat non-violent
              > > > > in its present form, but that might be due to
              > > > > smaller numbers outside of Utah.
              > > > >
              > > > > And, except for some Hollywood stars and
              > > > > wannabes it seems like Scientology isn't pulling
              > > > > in the numbers it once did.
              > > > >
              > > > > On the other hand, Fundamentalist (Old Testament
              > > > > versus New) "Christians" are mixing Right-Wing
              > > > > Fascist Politics and ideals (racism and fear) with
              > > > > religion.
              > > > >
              > > > > When looking at Fundamentalist Christians and
              > > > > Fundamentalist Muslims one can see that these
              > > > > are extreme "cult" members that really need attention,
              > > > > information, and intervention. Otherwise, it's a
              > > > > moot point regarding Eckankar when one puts it
              > > > > all into perspective. Maybe Colleen should redirect
              > > > > her efforts and challenge herself with "Fundamentalist
              > > > > Cult Busting." I'm sure that it would draw in larger
              > > > > numbers ($) and it's obvious that it is much more
              > > > > needed! The Eckankar thing is rather passe' when
              > > > > looking at current events. Thus, cult busting seminars
              > > > > should/could be expanded to make a more positive
              > > > > impact upon society and families in general, but
              > > > > upon women mostly! And, advertising for this could
              > > > > be done on large scale venues like FB, Twitter, etc.
              > > > >
              > > > > The only reason that I outed Twitchell and Klemp's
              > > > > Eckankar scam is because I was a member for
              > > > > 30 years and was an ECK leader (insider) and H.I.
              > > > > under, mostly, Klemp's influence. Plus, it was good
              > > > > talk therapy for me and others who were taken
              > > > > in and fooled by this New Age cult. Eckankar only
              > > > > gives info equating to the tip-of-an-iceberg because
              > > > > one can only ask questions for a short time before
              > > > > being shunned into silence and told to look to
              > > > > the "inner." Fool me once (with Christianity) shame
              > > > > on you, fool me twice (with Eckankar) shame on me!
              > > > > Actually, shame (as with guilt) is another thing that
              > > > > people have to resolve and let go of. Live and learn,
              > > > > but one must first realize that something is wrong
              > > > > and then look for answers outside of one's normal
              > > > > cult environment by having an open mind in order
              > > > > to listen, analyze, learn and heal!
              > > > >
              > > > > BTW (FYI) It's Eckankar Survivors (not suvivors)
              > > > > and it's "Anonymous!" Details are important!
              > > > >
              > > > > Prometheus
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Mishmisha wrote:
              > > > > Hi, All!
              > > > >
              > > > > Just popping in to share a little bit and to let you see I still am reading some
              > > > > of the anti-eckankar sites. . . . I may not be so active on them as I once was
              > > > > but I still care! : )
              > > > >
              > > > > I'd love for Klemp to publish a new book like "Those Wonderful ECK Masters" . ..
              > > > > that one was so amusing for me!! Klemp had a game plan regarding his wife Joan
              > > > > that was particularly touching! LOL! The discussions/review of that book begin I
              > > > > believe back in Jan. 2005 . . . anyone who didn't follow that might find it
              > > > > interesting.
              > > > >
              > > > > i have been engaging in other activities . .. fun things for the most part and
              > > > > have set some life goals that are also interesting and fun for me.
              > > > >
              > > > > In discussing religions . .. eckankar included here . .. I've just about lost my
              > > > > respect for all of them. They are nothing more than man-made delusional
              > > > > thinking. The rules and belief systems that are set up by each are either hardly
              > > > > understood and followed or they are too much followed IMO. I was amazed recently
              > > > > by the death prayer for President Obama that has gone the rounds on FaceBook. So
              > > > > many "religious" holier than thou type people gave that a thumbs up!! They quote
              > > > > scripture and let it be known that their religion is a big part of their lives
              > > > > but yet without a thought or a blink of an eye, they can okay prayer for the
              > > > > death of someone??? I don't get it. How hateful is that . . .and obviously
              > > > > racially motivated! So, yeah, I don't "get" religious people! LOL!
              > > > >
              > > > > Well, it is difficult to sort life out I guess . . . so many get on one band
              > > > > wagon or another . . . and twist things around to what favors them the most . ..
              > > > > via giving lip service to a lot of things while continuing to believe they are
              > > > > righteous or spiritually advanced. . . which smacks of big time delusion. It is
              > > > > easy to see why people get led astray and fall for a lot of nonsense, including
              > > > > eckankar. Maybe this is a way to skirt being accountable for what a person does
              > > > > in the real world while allowing one to become lazy (non thinking) and not
              > > > > developing critical thinking skills. Imagining and pretending is sooooooo much
              > > > > easier, isn't it . . . and if it doesn't work out in the long run, others can be
              > > > > blamed for one's fallacies and short comings! LOL!
              > > > >
              > > > > I am the master of my fate but I am not my own god . . . I still believe in a
              > > > > Divine Spirit that is greater than all of us . . . and It doesn't reward or
              > > > > punish . . . It just is!
              > > > >
              > > > > Take care, All!
              > > > >
              > > > > Mish
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
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