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Re: Rebazar Was NOT a Mahanta in The Tiger's Fang

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Ingrid, I was curious if you know how many countries force people to pay a tax for church membership? Which countries and which churches does it include?
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 5, 2010
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      Hello Ingrid,
      I was curious if you know how
      many countries force people to
      pay a tax for church membership?
      Which countries and which churches
      does it include? Why are these
      governments forcing people to
      pay this tax? Are the churches that
      powerful, or is the government taking
      their cut too? Is it just the Catholic and
      Lutheran churches? Were you forced
      to pay a tax due to Eckankar membership?

      Forgive the questions but I've heard
      something about this happening in
      Germany.

      Prometheus


      ctecvie wrote:

      Hi Prometheus,

      yes the "feel good" factor is another
      important issue why people need
      religions. Isn't it just great to feel
      like the ones who will be "saved"
      because they belong to the "right"
      group of people and to just know
      it all? It's really so good to look
      down on the poor devils who haven't
      figured it out for themselves
      ... :-D

      And the karma thingie in eckankar
      is the same thing as the original sin
      of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened
      their eyes, they could see that very easily!
      LOL!

      Ingrid

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hi Ingrid and All,
      > Yes, all religions take our money
      > in one way or another. All of us pay
      > for their Holy Wars that they wage
      > upon the rest of us. Their members
      > also pay for future promises and to
      > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
      > while looking down their noses at
      > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
      > interesting that so many of them
      > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
      > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
      > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
      > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
      > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > ctecvie wrote:
      >
      > Hi Prometheus and all,
      >
      > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
      > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
      > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
      > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
      > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
      > money!
      >
      > Ingrid
      >
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello All,
      > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
      > >
      > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
      > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
      > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
      > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
      > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
      > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
      > >
      > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
      > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
      > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
      > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
      > >
      > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
      > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
      > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
      > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
      > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
      > > eckankar.org
      > >
      > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
      > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
      > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
      > > lied as to how many times he traveled
      > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
      > > Twit ever travelled to India!
      > >
      > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
      > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
      > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
      > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
      > >
      > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
      > > conned people and that Klemp is still
      > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
      > > But, should anyone be surprised when
      > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
      > > gullible and loving people? Most people
      > > want to believe and they want to believe
      > > the best in whatever or whomever.
      > > Everyone has to figure out what category
      > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
      > > are manmade just as religions are.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > prometheus wrote:
      > > Hello Etznab and All,
      > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
      > > Living ECK Master" are historical
      > > transcriptions from private tapings
      > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
      > >
      > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
      > > made private tapings of his struggles
      > > before and after his acceptance
      > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
      > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
      > > who presented these tapes to Sri
      > > Darwin.)"
      > >
      > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
      > > Twitchell tells his story of being
      > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
      > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
      > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
      > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
      > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
      > > lie! Marman states that this was
      > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
      > > as Paul would have us to believe.
      > >
      > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
      > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
      > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
      > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
      > > his "grand achievements" to get
      > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
      > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
      > > (France) nor to India at age 15
      > > in 1923!
      > >
      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Twit states:
      > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
      > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
      > > six to seven months being taught
      > > and learning the works of ECK...
      > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
      > >
      > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
      > > the "Mahanta" once during these
      > > months!
      > >
      > > PT: "I had already been initiated
      > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
      > > the same as everybody else, the
      > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
      > >
      > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
      > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
      > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
      > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
      > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
      > > 1955-65. They even have the same
      > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
      > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
      > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
      > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
      > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
      > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
      > >
      > > ***
      > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
      > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
      > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
      > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
      > > Page.
      > >
      > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
      > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
      > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
      > > how PT's birthday corresponds
      > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
      > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
      > > ***
      > >
      > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
      > > Fourth, I went up through About
      > > the Seventh at this particular time
      > > (pg. 71)."
      > >
      > > ME: How does one go up to
      > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
      > > Wouldn't a person remember
      > > what initiation it was if it were
      > > true? This is just more proof
      > > that Twit was lying once again!
      > >
      > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
      > > on this trip, I followed him up
      > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
      > > and I got the finish (12th) of
      > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
      > >
      > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
      > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
      > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
      > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
      > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
      > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
      > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
      > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
      > > Jan. 1, 1969.
      > >
      > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
      > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
      > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
      > > right? I just can't figure out what it
      > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > etznab wrote:
      > >
      > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
      > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
      > >
      > > There were other early books that didn't mention
      > > it either, if I remember correctly.
      > >
      > >
      > > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Etznab and All,
      > > I started another thread for this discussion.
      > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
      > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
      > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
      > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
      > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
      > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
      > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
      > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
      > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
      > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
      > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
      > > delude its followers.
      > >
      > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
      > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
      > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
      > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
      > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
      > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
      > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
      > > Four More Years that this information (if we
      > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
      > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
      > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
      > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
      > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
      > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
      > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
      > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
      > > gap, 1965-1969?
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > Hello Etznab,
      > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
      > > Twitchell claims to have received the
      > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
      > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
      > > have trouble remembering the details
      > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
      > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
      > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
      > > created or started the "outer church"
      > > on this date. This way he'd remember
      > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
      > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
      > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
      > > history, on this date... his birthday!
      > >
      > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
      > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
      > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
      > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
      > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
      > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
      > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
      > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
      > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
      > > of God.
      > >
      > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
      > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
      > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
      > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
      > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
      > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
      > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
      > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
      > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
      > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
      > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
      > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
      > > a past track record of lying has been verified
      > > by Klemp.
      > >
      > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
      > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
      > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
      > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
      > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
      > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
      > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
      > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
      > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
      > >
      > > If one has paid attention they will see that
      > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
      > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
      > > as well. Just look at the differences and
      > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
      > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
      > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
      > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
      > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
      > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
      > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
      > >
      > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
      > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
      > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
      > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
      > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
      > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > etznab wrote:
      > >
      > > hat was interesting what you said about
      > > "Mahanta".
      > >
      > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
      > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
      > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
      > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
      > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
      > >
      > > Was that the date?
      > >
      > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
      > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
      > > for books after that date.
      > >
      > > The Flute of God came out in installments
      > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
      > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
      > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
      > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
      > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
      > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
      > >
      > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
      > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
      > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
      > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
      > > various other forms of "Master".
      > >
      > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
      > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
      > >
      > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
      > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
      > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
      > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
      > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
      > > The Flute of God).
      > >
      > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
      > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
      > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
      > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
      > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
      > >
      > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
      > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
      > >
      > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
      > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
      > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
      > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
      > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
      > >
      > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
      > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
      > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
      > >
      > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
      > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
      > > "Mahanta" topic.
      > >
      > > Etznab
      > >
      > > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello All,
      > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
      > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
      > >
      > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
      > >
      > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
      > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
      > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
      > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
      > > true."
      > >
      > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
      > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
      > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
      > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
      > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
      > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
      > > "The Wisdom Notes."
      > >
      > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
      > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
      > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
      > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
      > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
      > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
      > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
      > > believe in some universal force whether called
      > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
      > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
      > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
      > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
      > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
      > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
      > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
      > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
      > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
      > > action" of his followers."
      > >
      > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
      > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
      > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
      > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
      > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
      > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
      > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
      > >
      > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
      > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
      > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
      > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
      > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
      > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
      > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
      > >
      > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
      > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
      > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
      > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
      > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
      > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
      > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
      > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
      > > title and definition.
      > >
      > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
      > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
      > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
      > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
      > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
      > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
      > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
      > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
      > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
      > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
      > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
      > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
      > > straight!
      > >
      > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
      > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
      > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
      > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
      > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
      > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
      > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
      > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
      > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
      > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
      > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
      > > 970th LEM, was from.
      > >
      > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
      > > wanted to present more details than what
      > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
      > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
      > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
      > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
      > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
      > > and distortions.
      > >
      > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
      > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
      > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
      > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
      > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
      > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
      > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
      > >
      > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
      > > will deny this, but they share the same
      > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
      > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
      > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
      > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
      > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
      > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
      > > where ECKists have made fun of the
      > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
      > > would seem that they are laughing
      > > at themselves and don't realize it!
      > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
      > > to do critical thinking and Not being
      > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
      > > still ECKists.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
    • ctecvie
      Hi Prometheus, ... ***In Austria, it s only the Catholic church. As far as I know, Lutherans don t pay anything. And no, I didn t pay any tex when I was a
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 5, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Prometheus,

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Ingrid,
        > I was curious if you know how
        > many countries force people to
        > pay a tax for church membership?
        ***In Austria it's the Catholic church. I don't know if there are any other countries but I think that in Germany a church tax is deduced directly from the salary if you are a member of that particular church - I think it's the Lutherans.

        > Which countries and which churches
        > does it include? Why are these
        > governments forcing people to
        > pay this tax?
        ***In Austria, it's not the government but the Catholic church itself. Once you start working and are a Catholic, they come inevitably and charge you a fee. You need to give proof of your salary because if you don't they'll just charge you any amount that comes them to mind. I left the Catholic church in 1986, so no more hassle since that time! If you try to disappear, they'll find you somehow.

        >Are the churches that
        > powerful, or is the government taking
        > their cut too?
        ***Not in Austria, no.
        >Is it just the Catholic and
        > Lutheran churches? Were you forced
        > to pay a tax due to Eckankar membership?
        ***In Austria, it's only the Catholic church. As far as I know, Lutherans don't pay anything. And no, I didn't pay any tex when I was a member of eckankar.
        Ingrid

        >
        > Forgive the questions but I've heard
        > something about this happening in
        > Germany.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        > ctecvie wrote:
        >
        > Hi Prometheus,
        >
        > yes the "feel good" factor is another
        > important issue why people need
        > religions. Isn't it just great to feel
        > like the ones who will be "saved"
        > because they belong to the "right"
        > group of people and to just know
        > it all? It's really so good to look
        > down on the poor devils who haven't
        > figured it out for themselves
        > ... :-D
        >
        > And the karma thingie in eckankar
        > is the same thing as the original sin
        > of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened
        > their eyes, they could see that very easily!
        > LOL!
        >
        > Ingrid
        >
        > prometheus wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Ingrid and All,
        > > Yes, all religions take our money
        > > in one way or another. All of us pay
        > > for their Holy Wars that they wage
        > > upon the rest of us. Their members
        > > also pay for future promises and to
        > > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
        > > while looking down their noses at
        > > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
        > > interesting that so many of them
        > > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
        > > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
        > > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
        > > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
        > > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > > ctecvie wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Prometheus and all,
        > >
        > > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
        > > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
        > > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
        > > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
        > > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
        > > money!
        > >
        > > Ingrid
        > >
        > >
        > > prometheus wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello All,
        > > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
        > > >
        > > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
        > > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
        > > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
        > > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
        > > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
        > > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
        > > >
        > > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
        > > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
        > > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
        > > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
        > > >
        > > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
        > > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
        > > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
        > > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
        > > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
        > > > eckankar.org
        > > >
        > > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
        > > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
        > > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
        > > > lied as to how many times he traveled
        > > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
        > > > Twit ever travelled to India!
        > > >
        > > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
        > > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
        > > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
        > > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
        > > >
        > > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
        > > > conned people and that Klemp is still
        > > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
        > > > But, should anyone be surprised when
        > > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
        > > > gullible and loving people? Most people
        > > > want to believe and they want to believe
        > > > the best in whatever or whomever.
        > > > Everyone has to figure out what category
        > > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
        > > > are manmade just as religions are.
        > > >
        > > > Prometheus
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > prometheus wrote:
        > > > Hello Etznab and All,
        > > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
        > > > Living ECK Master" are historical
        > > > transcriptions from private tapings
        > > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
        > > >
        > > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
        > > > made private tapings of his struggles
        > > > before and after his acceptance
        > > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
        > > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
        > > > who presented these tapes to Sri
        > > > Darwin.)"
        > > >
        > > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
        > > > Twitchell tells his story of being
        > > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
        > > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
        > > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
        > > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
        > > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
        > > > lie! Marman states that this was
        > > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
        > > > as Paul would have us to believe.
        > > >
        > > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
        > > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
        > > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
        > > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
        > > > his "grand achievements" to get
        > > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
        > > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
        > > > (France) nor to India at age 15
        > > > in 1923!
        > > >
        > > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Twit states:
        > > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
        > > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
        > > > six to seven months being taught
        > > > and learning the works of ECK...
        > > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
        > > >
        > > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
        > > > the "Mahanta" once during these
        > > > months!
        > > >
        > > > PT: "I had already been initiated
        > > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
        > > > the same as everybody else, the
        > > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
        > > >
        > > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
        > > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
        > > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
        > > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
        > > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
        > > > 1955-65. They even have the same
        > > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
        > > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
        > > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
        > > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
        > > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
        > > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
        > > >
        > > > ***
        > > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
        > > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
        > > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
        > > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
        > > > Page.
        > > >
        > > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
        > > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
        > > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
        > > > how PT's birthday corresponds
        > > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
        > > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
        > > > ***
        > > >
        > > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
        > > > Fourth, I went up through About
        > > > the Seventh at this particular time
        > > > (pg. 71)."
        > > >
        > > > ME: How does one go up to
        > > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
        > > > Wouldn't a person remember
        > > > what initiation it was if it were
        > > > true? This is just more proof
        > > > that Twit was lying once again!
        > > >
        > > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
        > > > on this trip, I followed him up
        > > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
        > > > and I got the finish (12th) of
        > > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
        > > >
        > > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
        > > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
        > > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
        > > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
        > > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
        > > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
        > > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
        > > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
        > > > Jan. 1, 1969.
        > > >
        > > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
        > > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
        > > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
        > > > right? I just can't figure out what it
        > > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
        > > >
        > > > Prometheus
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > etznab wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
        > > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
        > > >
        > > > There were other early books that didn't mention
        > > > it either, if I remember correctly.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > prometheus wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello Etznab and All,
        > > > I started another thread for this discussion.
        > > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
        > > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
        > > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
        > > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
        > > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
        > > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
        > > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
        > > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
        > > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
        > > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
        > > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
        > > > delude its followers.
        > > >
        > > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
        > > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
        > > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
        > > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
        > > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
        > > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
        > > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
        > > > Four More Years that this information (if we
        > > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
        > > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
        > > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
        > > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
        > > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
        > > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
        > > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
        > > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
        > > > gap, 1965-1969?
        > > >
        > > > Prometheus
        > > >
        > > > Hello Etznab,
        > > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
        > > > Twitchell claims to have received the
        > > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
        > > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
        > > > have trouble remembering the details
        > > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
        > > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
        > > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
        > > > created or started the "outer church"
        > > > on this date. This way he'd remember
        > > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
        > > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
        > > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
        > > > history, on this date... his birthday!
        > > >
        > > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
        > > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
        > > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
        > > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
        > > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
        > > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
        > > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
        > > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
        > > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
        > > > of God.
        > > >
        > > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
        > > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
        > > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
        > > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
        > > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
        > > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
        > > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
        > > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
        > > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
        > > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
        > > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
        > > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
        > > > a past track record of lying has been verified
        > > > by Klemp.
        > > >
        > > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
        > > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
        > > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
        > > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
        > > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
        > > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
        > > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
        > > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
        > > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
        > > >
        > > > If one has paid attention they will see that
        > > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
        > > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
        > > > as well. Just look at the differences and
        > > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
        > > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
        > > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
        > > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
        > > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
        > > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
        > > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
        > > >
        > > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
        > > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
        > > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
        > > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
        > > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
        > > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
        > > >
        > > > Prometheus
        > > >
        > > > etznab wrote:
        > > >
        > > > hat was interesting what you said about
        > > > "Mahanta".
        > > >
        > > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
        > > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
        > > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
        > > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
        > > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
        > > >
        > > > Was that the date?
        > > >
        > > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
        > > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
        > > > for books after that date.
        > > >
        > > > The Flute of God came out in installments
        > > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
        > > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
        > > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
        > > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
        > > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
        > > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
        > > >
        > > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
        > > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
        > > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
        > > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
        > > > various other forms of "Master".
        > > >
        > > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
        > > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
        > > >
        > > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
        > > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
        > > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
        > > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
        > > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
        > > > The Flute of God).
        > > >
        > > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
        > > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
        > > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
        > > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
        > > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
        > > >
        > > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
        > > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
        > > >
        > > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
        > > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
        > > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
        > > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
        > > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
        > > >
        > > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
        > > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
        > > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
        > > >
        > > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
        > > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
        > > > "Mahanta" topic.
        > > >
        > > > Etznab
        > > >
        > > > prometheus wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello All,
        > > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
        > > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
        > > >
        > > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
        > > >
        > > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
        > > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
        > > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
        > > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
        > > > true."
        > > >
        > > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
        > > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
        > > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
        > > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
        > > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
        > > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
        > > > "The Wisdom Notes."
        > > >
        > > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
        > > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
        > > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
        > > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
        > > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
        > > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
        > > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
        > > > believe in some universal force whether called
        > > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
        > > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
        > > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
        > > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
        > > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
        > > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
        > > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
        > > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
        > > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
        > > > action" of his followers."
        > > >
        > > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
        > > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
        > > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
        > > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
        > > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
        > > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
        > > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
        > > >
        > > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
        > > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
        > > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
        > > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
        > > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
        > > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
        > > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
        > > >
        > > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
        > > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
        > > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
        > > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
        > > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
        > > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
        > > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
        > > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
        > > > title and definition.
        > > >
        > > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
        > > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
        > > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
        > > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
        > > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
        > > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
        > > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
        > > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
        > > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
        > > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
        > > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
        > > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
        > > > straight!
        > > >
        > > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
        > > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
        > > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
        > > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
        > > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
        > > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
        > > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
        > > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
        > > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
        > > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
        > > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
        > > > 970th LEM, was from.
        > > >
        > > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
        > > > wanted to present more details than what
        > > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
        > > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
        > > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
        > > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
        > > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
        > > > and distortions.
        > > >
        > > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
        > > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
        > > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
        > > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
        > > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
        > > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
        > > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
        > > >
        > > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
        > > > will deny this, but they share the same
        > > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
        > > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
        > > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
        > > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
        > > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
        > > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
        > > > where ECKists have made fun of the
        > > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
        > > > would seem that they are laughing
        > > > at themselves and don't realize it!
        > > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
        > > > to do critical thinking and Not being
        > > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
        > > > still ECKists.
        > > >
        > > > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello All, It seems that all religions represent the original pyramid scheme via their hierarchies. Those ECK Vahanas are sales people who have a vested
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 6, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello All,
          It seems that all religions represent
          the original pyramid scheme via
          their hierarchies. Those ECK Vahanas
          are sales people who have a vested
          interest in the company. They have
          something to gain by selling their
          products (Eckankar materials and
          memberships). Their payment is
          prestige, hope, belief, promises,
          and initiation points while Klemp
          and company acquire more money
          and influence/power over their
          subjects.

          And, it's clear that ECKists can't
          voice displeasure with the way
          things are done because that would
          be "negative."

          Besides, there are repercussions
          for voicing an honest assessment
          of those "above" them. No ECKist
          wants to be Black Listed on initiations
          or on positions and titles within the
          hierarchy. No one wants to be shunned,
          but it does happen. These are just
          part of the control and fear tactics
          used. Thus, Silence, Service and
          Surrender become the three keys
          for Klemp's Success!

          Prometheus




          prometheus wrote:

          Hi Ingrid and All,
          Yes, all religions take our money
          in one way or another. All of us pay
          for their Holy Wars that they wage
          upon the rest of us. Their members
          also pay for future promises and to
          feel good and all puffed-up, now,
          while looking down their noses at
          all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
          interesting that so many of them
          believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
          dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
          Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
          that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
          (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).

          Prometheus

          ctecvie wrote:

          Hi Prometheus and all,

          commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
          Religions pretend that they can give answers to
          questions that cannot be answered. We need to
          accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
          And that's where religions come in and take (our)
          money!

          Ingrid


          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
          >
          > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
          > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
          > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
          > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
          > and stayed in Allahabad, India
          > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
          >
          > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
          > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
          > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
          > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
          >
          > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
          > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
          > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
          > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
          > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
          > eckankar.org
          >
          > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
          > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
          > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
          > lied as to how many times he traveled
          > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
          > Twit ever travelled to India!
          >
          > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
          > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
          > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
          > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
          >
          > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
          > conned people and that Klemp is still
          > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
          > But, should anyone be surprised when
          > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
          > gullible and loving people? Most people
          > want to believe and they want to believe
          > the best in whatever or whomever.
          > Everyone has to figure out what category
          > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
          > are manmade just as religions are.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          > Hello Etznab and All,
          > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
          > Living ECK Master" are historical
          > transcriptions from private tapings
          > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
          >
          > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
          > made private tapings of his struggles
          > before and after his acceptance
          > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
          > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
          > who presented these tapes to Sri
          > Darwin.)"
          >
          > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
          > Twitchell tells his story of being
          > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
          > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
          > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
          > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
          > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
          > lie! Marman states that this was
          > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
          > as Paul would have us to believe.
          >
          > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
          > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
          > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
          > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
          > his "grand achievements" to get
          > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
          > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
          > (France) nor to India at age 15
          > in 1923!
          >
          http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
          >
          >
          >
          > Twit states:
          > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
          > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
          > six to seven months being taught
          > and learning the works of ECK...
          > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
          >
          > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
          > the "Mahanta" once during these
          > months!
          >
          > PT: "I had already been initiated
          > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
          > the same as everybody else, the
          > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
          >
          > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
          > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
          > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
          > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
          > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
          > 1955-65. They even have the same
          > last name! What's this mean? Well,
          > it means that Eckankar was/is based
          > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
          > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
          > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
          > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
          >
          > ***
          > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
          > gives Twitchell's birth year as
          > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
          > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
          > Page.
          >
          > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
          > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
          > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
          > how PT's birthday corresponds
          > to the Spiritual New Year and the
          > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
          > ***
          >
          > PT: "And then I got the Third and
          > Fourth, I went up through About
          > the Seventh at this particular time
          > (pg. 71)."
          >
          > ME: How does one go up to
          > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
          > Wouldn't a person remember
          > what initiation it was if it were
          > true? This is just more proof
          > that Twit was lying once again!
          >
          > PT: "... later [1951], but not
          > on this trip, I followed him up
          > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
          > and I got the finish (12th) of
          > my initiations (pg. 71)."
          >
          > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
          > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
          > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
          > Master! I know this because Twitchell
          > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
          > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
          > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
          > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
          > Jan. 1, 1969.
          >
          > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
          > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
          > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
          > right? I just can't figure out what it
          > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > etznab wrote:
          >
          > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
          > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
          >
          > There were other early books that didn't mention
          > it either, if I remember correctly.
          >
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello Etznab and All,
          > I started another thread for this discussion.
          > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
          > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
          > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
          > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
          > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
          > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
          > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
          > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
          > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
          > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
          > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
          > delude its followers.
          >
          > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
          > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
          > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
          > all of those secret teachings and when he made
          > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
          > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
          > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
          > Four More Years that this information (if we
          > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
          > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
          > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
          > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
          > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
          > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
          > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
          > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
          > gap, 1965-1969?
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > Hello Etznab,
          > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
          > Twitchell claims to have received the
          > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
          > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
          > have trouble remembering the details
          > of their lies. That's why Twit made
          > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
          > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
          > created or started the "outer church"
          > on this date. This way he'd remember
          > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
          > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
          > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
          > history, on this date... his birthday!
          >
          > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
          > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
          > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
          > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
          > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
          > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
          > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
          > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
          > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
          > of God.
          >
          > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
          > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
          > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
          > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
          > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
          > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
          > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
          > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
          > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
          > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
          > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
          > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
          > a past track record of lying has been verified
          > by Klemp.
          >
          > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
          > but let's remember that Klemp states that
          > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
          > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
          > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
          > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
          > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
          > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
          > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
          >
          > If one has paid attention they will see that
          > Klemp has not only given new covers to
          > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
          > as well. Just look at the differences and
          > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
          > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
          > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
          > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
          > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
          > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
          > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
          >
          > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
          > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
          > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
          > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
          > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
          > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > etznab wrote:
          >
          > hat was interesting what you said about
          > "Mahanta".
          >
          > Just the other day I was trying to remember
          > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
          > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
          > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
          > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
          >
          > Was that the date?
          >
          > I assumed the writing about it would have to
          > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
          > for books after that date.
          >
          > The Flute of God came out in installments
          > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
          > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
          > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
          > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
          > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
          > to Darwin Gross, I think.
          >
          > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
          > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
          > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
          > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
          > various other forms of "Master".
          >
          > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
          > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
          >
          > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
          > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
          > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
          > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
          > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
          > The Flute of God).
          >
          > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
          > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
          > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
          > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
          > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
          >
          > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
          > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
          >
          > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
          > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
          > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
          > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
          > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
          >
          > I'd like to find out when that experience was
          > mentioned and what was said about it to get
          > an idea about what "history" might exist.
          >
          > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
          > I thought this query could be relevant to the
          > "Mahanta" topic.
          >
          > Etznab
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
          > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
          >
          > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
          >
          > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
          > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
          > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
          > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
          > true."
          >
          > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
          > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
          > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
          > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
          > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
          > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
          > "The Wisdom Notes."
          >
          > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
          > Twitchell stole even the name from another
          > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
          > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
          > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
          > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
          > form This was easy to accept, for most people
          > believe in some universal force whether called
          > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
          > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
          > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
          > of two words, he was able to transform himself
          > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
          > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
          > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
          > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
          > by making it part of "every word, thought and
          > action" of his followers."
          >
          > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
          > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
          > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
          > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
          > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
          > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
          > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
          >
          > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
          > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
          > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
          > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
          > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
          > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
          > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
          >
          > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
          > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
          > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
          > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
          > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
          > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
          > reproach and regain control as the highest of
          > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
          > title and definition.
          >
          > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
          > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
          > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
          > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
          > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
          > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
          > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
          > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
          > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
          > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
          > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
          > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
          > straight!
          >
          > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
          > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
          > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
          > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
          > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
          > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
          > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
          > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
          > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
          > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
          > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
          > 970th LEM, was from.
          >
          > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
          > wanted to present more details than what
          > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
          > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
          > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
          > up for him, as well as, creating his own
          > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
          > and distortions.
          >
          > There's one more thing that I wanted to
          > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
          > Christians believe that Jesus will come
          > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
          > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
          > Freedom via God-Realization in this
          > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
          >
          > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
          > will deny this, but they share the same
          > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
          > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
          > switch and made Adam into Adom and
          > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
          > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
          > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
          > where ECKists have made fun of the
          > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
          > would seem that they are laughing
          > at themselves and don't realize it!
          > How clueless! Then again, an inability
          > to do critical thinking and Not being
          > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
          > still ECKists.
          >
          > Prometheus
        • prometheus_973
          Twitchell s Last Mystic World Article July-August-September 1971 [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM, pages 251-254] Up until his last days Twitchell was still
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 6, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Twitchell's Last Mystic World Article
            July-August-September 1971
            [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
            pages 251-254]

            Up until his last days Twitchell was
            still conning people and rewriting
            his and ECKankar's history (in third
            person) in order to give validation
            to his outlandish claims/lies/dogma.
            And, for some reason people believed
            it! However, Why don't some of these
            same people who bought into it then,
            don't now? Where's Klemp's Virgin
            Birth that would qualify him as a
            "Mahanta?" Klemp was born the
            second child. Is Twitchell lying about
            these details?


            "During the early part of the seventeenth
            century, four ECK spiritual masters
            who serve in the spiritual hierarchy,
            met in the ancient sacred city of Agam
            Des in the Himalayan Mountains.

            They were:

            Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam, the
            great deity of the fifth world,
            commonly called the Soul Plane;

            Rebazar Tarzs, emissary for the
            ECK in the physical universe today;

            Gopal Das, spiritual master at the
            Golden Wisdom Temple on the Astral
            Plane and

            Yaubl Sacabi, spiritual head of
            the ancient city of Agam Des."

            ME: BTW- Ramaj is actually Rama.
            And, in the Spiritual Notebook, 10th
            printing, Twitchell calls him Ramaji
            on page 196.

            PT: "They met to discuss the birth
            of the coming AVATAR for the twentieth
            century [himself, Paul Twitchell], Peddar
            Zaskq. Born in the Caucasian mountains
            during the Seventeenth Century, he lived
            and was trained to the heights of spiritual
            perfection."

            ME: And yet, even when he was reborn
            as Paul Twitchell he had no knowledge
            of the "Mahanta" Consciousness nor
            for 18 years After his 12th Initiation,
            by Rebazar (1951), to ECK Master status!

            PT: "Given several years in the Art
            of Silence and Darkness he gained
            Enlightenment in Preparation for his
            return to the Twentieth Century. When
            the time came for his demise, he passed
            away still looking the same youthful
            appearance yet beyond the normal
            age of man."

            ME: Was Peddar's study in the "Art
            of Darkness" preparation for becoming
            a liar and deceiver and a practitioner
            of the Black Arts as a Black Magician?
            It seems this was a Freudian slip on
            PT's part.

            PT: "He was prepared for entering
            into the world again to take up his
            mission. The four great ECK Masters
            met once more, but this time at the
            Sakipura Monastery in the vast
            mountains of the northern Himalayas.

            This time the ancient prediction that
            a New World Avatar would be born
            on a great body of water, near the
            shores where horses grazed was
            to become true. This time Peddar
            Zaskq was born on a Mississippi
            river packet enroute to New Orleans.

            The Miraculous Birth took place
            just below the city of Natchez,
            Mississippi near a stock farm.
            At the time of his birth, a great
            earthquake shook the Mississippi
            valley, forming a vast body of
            lakes in western Tennessee.

            There appeared a BLUE CARNATION
            in a vase on a night table by the
            mother's bed."

            ME: This Blue Carnation symbol
            of the Mahanta Consciousness
            was created by Twitchell after-the-
            fact with 20/20 hindsight. This is
            another rewrite by Twitchell. If he
            did have the "Mahanta Consciousness"
            then why didn't he mention it prior
            to 1969? This 1971 pub is to rectify
            that mistake and act as a cover-up.

            PT: "The work of the Hierarchy
            was completed except for the training
            of Peddar Zaskq. It was immediately
            arranged for him to be given a home
            in which to be raised.

            His Foster Parents raised him in a
            small souther river town [Paducah,
            Kentucky]. He adopted their name
            and became known as Paul Twitchell
            in the Twentieth Century."

            ME: Isn't this a different story from
            what Klemp has mentioned? Klemp
            and Marman, both, have suggested
            that Paul's father had an affair and
            that he was allowed to take Paul and
            raise him. Thus, the other children
            were Paul's half-brothers and sisters
            and his mother was his step-mother.
            Paul told this lie in order to have a
            virgin birth like Jesus and other
            Avatars, and to establish the "Blue
            Carnation" of the Mahanta connection.
            This is, also, why Darwin stated that
            Paul was the only Mahanta for the
            next thousand years. DG didn't have
            a "virgin birth" and neither did Klemp!

            PT: "He [Paul Twitchell aka Peddar
            Zaskq] looked and acted and was
            raised accordingly like any American
            child, except for his enormous knowledge
            and ability to do Soul Travel."

            ME: Once again, Twit is selling himself.
            Snake oil anyone? It's "blue" too!

            PT: "None knew much about him for
            he kept to himself. His companion in
            these years was his Stepsister who
            gave him much of his knowledge on
            Soul Travel. She acted as the instrument
            through which the divine power flowed
            to open his consciousness to God
            again, and acted as his guide until
            ECK Masters were able to take over."

            ME: So, I wonder what initiation level
            Paul's stepsister (Kay-Dee) was? That's
            probably another story (lie). But, Wow!
            Paul was really unloading a pile of B.S.
            wasn't he! It's no wonder Klemp had Peter
            Skelsky round up and destroy all of these
            copies of "Difficulties of Becoming the
            Living ECK Master." Does Marman believe
            that the true, one and only, Mahanta
            has to be born of a Virgin like Twitchell
            states? Or, does Marman think Paul was
            lying about his Virgin Birth like he did
            with "Paris."

            PT: "The rest of his story is told in
            fragments of his first visit to Paris
            to be with his stepsister, who was
            in training to be an artist. It was here
            that he [Paul/Peddar] first met Sudar
            [Kirpal] Singh, an ECK Master, and
            followed him to India with his stepsister
            to study ECK[ankar].

            Later as a young man, he returned
            to India and set out to find Rebazar
            Tarzs, the ancient Tibetan ECK Master,
            near Darjeeling. It was here that the
            contact was made with the great ECK
            emissary and his training taken over
            to prepare him for world leadership
            in spiritual affairs. July-August-September
            1971"

            Prometheus


            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
            >
            > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
            > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
            > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
            > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
            > and stayed in Allahabad, India
            > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
            >
            > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
            > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
            > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
            > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
            >
            > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
            > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
            > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
            > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
            > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
            > eckankar.org
            >
            > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
            > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
            > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
            > lied as to how many times he traveled
            > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
            > Twit ever travelled to India!
            >
            > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
            > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
            > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
            > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
            >
            > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
            > conned people and that Klemp is still
            > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
            > But, should anyone be surprised when
            > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
            > gullible and loving people? Most people
            > want to believe and they want to believe
            > the best in whatever or whomever.
            > Everyone has to figure out what category
            > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
            > are manmade just as religions are.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            > Hello Etznab and All,
            > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
            > Living ECK Master" are historical
            > transcriptions from private tapings
            > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
            >
            > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
            > made private tapings of his struggles
            > before and after his acceptance
            > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
            > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
            > who presented these tapes to Sri
            > Darwin.)"
            >
            > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
            > Twitchell tells his story of being
            > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
            > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
            > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
            > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
            > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
            > lie! Marman states that this was
            > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
            > as Paul would have us to believe.
            >
            > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
            > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
            > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
            > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
            > his "grand achievements" to get
            > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
            > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
            > (France) nor to India at age 15
            > in 1923!
            >
            http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
            >
            >
            >
            > Twit states:
            > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
            > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
            > six to seven months being taught
            > and learning the works of ECK...
            > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
            >
            > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
            > the "Mahanta" once during these
            > months!
            >
            > PT: "I had already been initiated
            > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
            > the same as everybody else, the
            > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
            >
            > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
            > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
            > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
            > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
            > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
            > 1955-65. They even have the same
            > last name! What's this mean? Well,
            > it means that Eckankar was/is based
            > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
            > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
            > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
            > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
            >
            > ***
            > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
            > gives Twitchell's birth year as
            > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
            > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
            > Page.
            >
            > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
            > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
            > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
            > how PT's birthday corresponds
            > to the Spiritual New Year and the
            > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
            > ***
            >
            > PT: "And then I got the Third and
            > Fourth, I went up through About
            > the Seventh at this particular time
            > (pg. 71)."
            >
            > ME: How does one go up to
            > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
            > Wouldn't a person remember
            > what initiation it was if it were
            > true? This is just more proof
            > that Twit was lying once again!
            >
            > PT: "... later [1951], but not
            > on this trip, I followed him up
            > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
            > and I got the finish (12th) of
            > my initiations (pg. 71)."
            >
            > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
            > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
            > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
            > Master! I know this because Twitchell
            > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
            > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
            > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
            > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
            > Jan. 1, 1969.
            >
            > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
            > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
            > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
            > right? I just can't figure out what it
            > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > etznab wrote:
            >
            > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
            > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
            >
            > There were other early books that didn't mention
            > it either, if I remember correctly.
            >
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello Etznab and All,
            > I started another thread for this discussion.
            > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
            > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
            > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
            > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
            > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
            > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
            > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
            > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
            > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
            > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
            > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
            > delude its followers.
            >
            > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
            > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
            > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
            > all of those secret teachings and when he made
            > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
            > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
            > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
            > Four More Years that this information (if we
            > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
            > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
            > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
            > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
            > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
            > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
            > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
            > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
            > gap, 1965-1969?
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > Hello Etznab,
            > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
            > Twitchell claims to have received the
            > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
            > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
            > have trouble remembering the details
            > of their lies. That's why Twit made
            > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
            > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
            > created or started the "outer church"
            > on this date. This way he'd remember
            > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
            > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
            > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
            > history, on this date... his birthday!
            >
            > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
            > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
            > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
            > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
            > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
            > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
            > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
            > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
            > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
            > of God.
            >
            > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
            > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
            > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
            > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
            > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
            > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
            > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
            > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
            > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
            > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
            > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
            > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
            > a past track record of lying has been verified
            > by Klemp.
            >
            > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
            > but let's remember that Klemp states that
            > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
            > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
            > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
            > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
            > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
            > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
            > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
            >
            > If one has paid attention they will see that
            > Klemp has not only given new covers to
            > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
            > as well. Just look at the differences and
            > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
            > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
            > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
            > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
            > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
            > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
            > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
            >
            > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
            > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
            > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
            > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
            > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
            > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > etznab wrote:
            >
            > hat was interesting what you said about
            > "Mahanta".
            >
            > Just the other day I was trying to remember
            > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
            > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
            > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
            > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
            >
            > Was that the date?
            >
            > I assumed the writing about it would have to
            > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
            > for books after that date.
            >
            > The Flute of God came out in installments
            > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
            > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
            > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
            > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
            > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
            > to Darwin Gross, I think.
            >
            > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
            > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
            > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
            > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
            > various other forms of "Master".
            >
            > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
            > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
            >
            > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
            > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
            > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
            > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
            > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
            > The Flute of God).
            >
            > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
            > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
            > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
            > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
            > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
            >
            > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
            > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
            >
            > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
            > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
            > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
            > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
            > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
            >
            > I'd like to find out when that experience was
            > mentioned and what was said about it to get
            > an idea about what "history" might exist.
            >
            > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
            > I thought this query could be relevant to the
            > "Mahanta" topic.
            >
            > Etznab
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
            > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
            >
            > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
            >
            > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
            > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
            > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
            > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
            > true."
            >
            > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
            > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
            > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
            > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
            > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
            > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
            > "The Wisdom Notes."
            >
            > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
            > Twitchell stole even the name from another
            > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
            > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
            > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
            > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
            > form This was easy to accept, for most people
            > believe in some universal force whether called
            > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
            > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
            > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
            > of two words, he was able to transform himself
            > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
            > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
            > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
            > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
            > by making it part of "every word, thought and
            > action" of his followers."
            >
            > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
            > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
            > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
            > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
            > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
            > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
            > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
            >
            > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
            > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
            > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
            > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
            > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
            > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
            > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
            >
            > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
            > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
            > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
            > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
            > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
            > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
            > reproach and regain control as the highest of
            > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
            > title and definition.
            >
            > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
            > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
            > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
            > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
            > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
            > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
            > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
            > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
            > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
            > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
            > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
            > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
            > straight!
            >
            > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
            > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
            > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
            > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
            > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
            > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
            > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
            > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
            > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
            > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
            > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
            > 970th LEM, was from.
            >
            > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
            > wanted to present more details than what
            > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
            > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
            > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
            > up for him, as well as, creating his own
            > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
            > and distortions.
            >
            > There's one more thing that I wanted to
            > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
            > Christians believe that Jesus will come
            > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
            > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
            > Freedom via God-Realization in this
            > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
            >
            > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
            > will deny this, but they share the same
            > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
            > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
            > switch and made Adam into Adom and
            > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
            > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
            > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
            > where ECKists have made fun of the
            > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
            > would seem that they are laughing
            > at themselves and don't realize it!
            > How clueless! Then again, an inability
            > to do critical thinking and Not being
            > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
            > still ECKists.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Here s more to verify the Virgin Birth requirement for the Mahanta. This can be found in the Holy Books of ECKankar, The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Books One & Two
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 7, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Here's more to verify the "Virgin
              Birth" requirement for the Mahanta.
              This can be found in the Holy Books
              of ECKankar, "The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
              Books One & Two" (copyright 2000)
              pages 111-112. Or, check the index
              of the Shariyat One under "Mahanta,
              birth of."

              BTW- The following information is
              found in Book One of the Shariyat.

              The Foreword, on page x, states:

              "Book One is the first section of these
              works, which was dictated by FUBBI
              QUANTZ, the great ECK Master who
              serves at the Katsupari Monastery
              in Northern Tibet.

              ME: Remember, too, Klemp was the
              "SECOND" Child Born to his mother.

              "The Mahanta is Always born near
              or on a large body of water. His
              Birth is Always Mysterious, and
              men of ordinary birth Do Not Know
              his Origin. NOR does any man know
              who his sires might be, their true
              names, or their true origin."

              ME: Since we know Klemp's origins
              (the Fremont, WI. area) and who his
              parents were (he spoke of them in
              his books and these were his REAL
              parents) we can see that, already,
              Klemp Doesn't fulfill the requirements
              listed above.

              "The ECK enters into the womb
              of a VIRGIN, the Queen of Heaven,
              who has submitted to the True Spirit
              of the universe. The Consciousness
              of the Mahanta State is planted as
              the seed and carefully nurtured in
              the womb. When the embodiment
              of flesh is brought into this world,
              a man-child is born."

              As I pointed out, Klemp had an
              older brother, Dwayne, therefore
              HK could Not have had a "Virgin
              Birth" and according to Fubbi, and
              this "Holy" Shariyat, Klemp Does
              Not meet this criteria either.

              On the other hand, Klemp had
              pointed out that Twitchell had
              lied in 1935, at the age of 27,
              to get into Who's Who. It could
              be that Twitchell was still lying,
              here, in 1970 when this Shariyat
              One was Copyrighted. However,
              this would simply point out that
              everything (the ECK Masters, the
              Mahanta, and the whole foundation
              of ECKankar is built upon is lies!

              So, ECKists either have to turn a
              Blind-Eye to this, as they have in
              the past, or they have to ask the
              hard questions:

              1) Is Twitchell, or Fubbi, lying about
              the "Virgin Birth" Mahanta Requirements?
              If Paul is lying then he's, also, lying
              about Fubbi's existence!

              OR

              2) If Twitchell, or Fubbi, were telling
              the Truth about the Mahanta needing
              to be Born by a Virgin then Klemp
              is lying about being the Mahanta!

              Really, is Eckankar's Holy Book
              wrong? Or, did "Fubbi" distort the
              truth? Is Fubbi another lie of Paul's?
              What else is a distortion? Klemp
              can't claim that Fubbi was using
              "artistic license" or can he? Klemp
              seems to exaggerate and twist facts
              as much as, or more, than Twitchell.

              BTW-Catch-22 is double-speak
              and means that HK can change the
              rules, or the interpretation of the
              rules anytime he wants. His "Con"
              is higher than yours, thus, you wouldn't
              understand even he he tried to explain
              it because he has to "lower" it by
              using 4th Mental Plane thoughts
              and words. It's a blank check.

              Yes, Klemp Did have the opportunity
              to edit this "Virgin Birth" Mahanta
              requirement out in 2000, but didn't!
              Apparently, Klemp doesn't have the
              need to do so. After all, ECKists will
              believe anything he tells them.

              Klemp did come up with the "Mahanta-
              in-Training" excuse to explain that
              Darwin (972th LEM) was Not a true
              or "Full" (14th) Mahanta and, therefore,
              it was okay for him (a 12th) and his
              EK "Board" to depose/dispose of him.

              However, Klemp can't explain away
              the "Virgin Birth" scripture requirement.
              Unless, Klemp really isn't a 14th "Full"
              Mahanta and is still "in-training" for
              this position for another future lifetime
              just as Peddar Zaskq, supposedly, had
              to do. Why has Klemp lied about being
              a "Full" 14th Mahanta? Vanity!

              Perhaps Klemp, too, has had the Rod
              of ECK Power "BURN" him for not letting
              go years earlier when he should have.
              IMO (from an EK standpoint)-HK fell
              from Grace circa 1990 and is, now, just
              acting out the role with the support of
              Joan and other cohorts at the ESC.

              The truth is that they (Twitchell, Gross,
              and Klemp) have all acted "AS IF" their
              religious LEM/Mahanta roles were
              "Spiritual." It wasn't/isn't! Eckankar is
              just another religious con that attracts
              those with a "New Age" belief system.
              Even New Age people, who have turned
              their backs on the large mass religions,
              need something.Therefore, Eckankar
              is an alternative for those with alternative
              beliefs. People are social animals and
              have a strong need to belong to some
              group.

              However, a religious "group consciousness,"
              shaped by the leader, impedes one's
              individual search and progress by lowering
              it through conformity! It's rather ironic
              that ECKists, and other New Agers, tend
              to view themselves as "Non-Conformists."
              Yet, ECKists, end up following rules, laws,
              Zoas, Guidelines, and Scripture and anything
              that Klemp tells them. Where is the Spiritual
              Freedom there, or in needing to pay an
              annual "membership" in order to receive
              and maintain one's "spiritual" advancement
              (initiations)? See! It all a con! But what choice
              do ECKists have when they are too weak-
              minded via fear tactics and brain-washing?

              However, once they do leave Eckankar
              they will feel a burden lifted from their
              shoulders. The stress will leave! They
              will now have increased moments of
              "Contentment." And, a new Clarity of
              mind and of Soul will be experienced
              and revealed.

              Prometheus


              ***
              Twitchell's Last Mystic World Article
              July-August-September 1971
              [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
              pages 251-254]

              Up until his last days Twitchell was
              still conning people and rewriting
              his and ECKankar's history (in third
              person) in order to give validation
              to his outlandish claims/lies/dogma.
              And, for some reason people believed
              it! However, Why don't some of these
              same people who bought into it then,
              don't now? Where's Klemp's Virgin
              Birth that would qualify him as a
              "Mahanta?" Klemp was born the
              second child. Is Twitchell lying about
              these details?


              "During the early part of the seventeenth
              century, four ECK spiritual masters
              who serve in the spiritual hierarchy,
              met in the ancient sacred city of Agam
              Des in the Himalayan Mountains.

              They were:

              Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam, the
              great deity of the fifth world,
              commonly called the Soul Plane;

              Rebazar Tarzs, emissary for the
              ECK in the physical universe today;

              Gopal Das, spiritual master at the
              Golden Wisdom Temple on the Astral
              Plane and

              Yaubl Sacabi, spiritual head of
              the ancient city of Agam Des."

              ME: BTW- Ramaj is actually Rama.
              And, in the Spiritual Notebook, 10th
              printing, Twitchell calls him Ramaji
              on page 196.

              PT: "They met to discuss the birth
              of the coming AVATAR for the twentieth
              century [himself, Paul Twitchell], Peddar
              Zaskq. Born in the Caucasian mountains
              during the Seventeenth Century, he lived
              and was trained to the heights of spiritual
              perfection."

              ME: And yet, even when he was reborn
              as Paul Twitchell he had no knowledge
              of the "Mahanta" Consciousness nor
              for 18 years After his 12th Initiation,
              by Rebazar (1951), to ECK Master status!

              PT: "Given several years in the Art
              of Silence and Darkness he gained
              Enlightenment in Preparation for his
              return to the Twentieth Century. When
              the time came for his demise, he passed
              away still looking the same youthful
              appearance yet beyond the normal
              age of man."

              ME: Was Peddar's study in the "Art
              of Darkness" preparation for becoming
              a liar and deceiver and a practitioner
              of the Black Arts as a Black Magician?
              It seems this was a Freudian slip on
              PT's part.

              PT: "He was prepared for entering
              into the world again to take up his
              mission. The four great ECK Masters
              met once more, but this time at the
              Sakipura Monastery in the vast
              mountains of the northern Himalayas.

              This time the ancient prediction that
              a New World Avatar would be born
              on a great body of water, near the
              shores where horses grazed was
              to become true. This time Peddar
              Zaskq was born on a Mississippi
              river packet enroute to New Orleans.

              The Miraculous Birth took place
              just below the city of Natchez,
              Mississippi near a stock farm.
              At the time of his birth, a great
              earthquake shook the Mississippi
              valley, forming a vast body of
              lakes in western Tennessee.

              There appeared a BLUE CARNATION
              in a vase on a night table by the
              mother's bed."

              ME: This Blue Carnation symbol
              of the Mahanta Consciousness
              was created by Twitchell after-the-
              fact with 20/20 hindsight. This is
              another rewrite by Twitchell. If he
              did have the "Mahanta Consciousness"
              then why didn't he mention it prior
              to 1969? This 1971 pub is to rectify
              that mistake and act as a cover-up.

              PT: "The work of the Hierarchy
              was completed except for the training
              of Peddar Zaskq. It was immediately
              arranged for him to be given a home
              in which to be raised.

              His Foster Parents raised him in a
              small souther river town [Paducah,
              Kentucky]. He adopted their name
              and became known as Paul Twitchell
              in the Twentieth Century."

              ME: Isn't this a different story from
              what Klemp has mentioned? Klemp
              and Marman, both, have suggested
              that Paul's father had an affair and
              that he was allowed to take Paul and
              raise him. Thus, the other children
              were Paul's half-brothers and sisters
              and his mother was his step-mother.
              Paul told this lie in order to have a
              virgin birth like Jesus and other
              Avatars, and to establish the "Blue
              Carnation" of the Mahanta connection.
              This is, also, why Darwin stated that
              Paul was the only Mahanta for the
              next thousand years. DG didn't have
              a "virgin birth" and neither did Klemp!

              PT: "He [Paul Twitchell aka Peddar
              Zaskq] looked and acted and was
              raised accordingly like any American
              child, except for his enormous knowledge
              and ability to do Soul Travel."

              ME: Once again, Twit is selling himself.
              Snake oil anyone? It's "blue" too!

              PT: "None knew much about him for
              he kept to himself. His companion in
              these years was his Stepsister who
              gave him much of his knowledge on
              Soul Travel. She acted as the instrument
              through which the divine power flowed
              to open his consciousness to God
              again, and acted as his guide until
              ECK Masters were able to take over."

              ME: So, I wonder what initiation level
              Paul's stepsister (Kay-Dee) was? That's
              probably another story (lie). But, Wow!
              Paul was really unloading a pile of B.S.
              wasn't he! It's no wonder Klemp had Peter
              Skelsky round up and destroy all of these
              copies of "Difficulties of Becoming the
              Living ECK Master." Does Marman believe
              that the true, one and only, Mahanta
              has to be born of a Virgin like Twitchell
              states? Or, does Marman think Paul was
              lying about his Virgin Birth like he did
              with "Paris."

              PT: "The rest of his story is told in
              fragments of his first visit to Paris
              to be with his stepsister, who was
              in training to be an artist. It was here
              that he [Paul/Peddar] first met Sudar
              [Kirpal] Singh, an ECK Master, and
              followed him to India with his stepsister
              to study ECK[ankar].

              Later as a young man, he returned
              to India and set out to find Rebazar
              Tarzs, the ancient Tibetan ECK Master,
              near Darjeeling. It was here that the
              contact was made with the great ECK
              emissary and his training taken over
              to prepare him for world leadership
              in spiritual affairs. July-August-September
              1971"

              Prometheus


              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies
              from Difficulties Of Becoming the LEM:
              >
              > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
              > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
              > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
              > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
              > and stayed in Allahabad, India
              > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
              >
              > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
              > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
              > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
              > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
              >
              > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
              > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
              > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
              > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
              > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
              > eckankar.org
              >
              > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
              > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
              > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
              > lied as to how many times he traveled
              > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
              > Twit ever travelled to India!
              >
              > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
              > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
              > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
              > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
              >
              > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
              > conned people and that Klemp is still
              > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
              > But, should anyone be surprised when
              > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
              > gullible and loving people? Most people
              > want to believe and they want to believe
              > the best in whatever or whomever.
              > Everyone has to figure out what category
              > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
              > are manmade just as religions are.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:

              > Hello Etznab and All,
              > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
              > Living ECK Master" are Historical
              > Transcriptions from Private Tapings
              > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
              >
              > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
              > made private tapings of his struggles
              > before and after his acceptance
              > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
              > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
              > who presented these tapes to Sri
              > Darwin.)"
              >
              > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
              > Twitchell tells his story of being
              > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
              > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
              > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
              > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
              > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
              > lie! Marman states that this was
              > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
              > as Paul would have us to believe.
              >
              > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
              > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
              > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
              > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
              > his "grand achievements" to get
              > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
              > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
              > (France) nor to India at age 15
              > in 1923!
              >
              http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
              >
              >
              >
              > Twit states:
              > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
              > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
              > six to seven months being taught
              > and learning the works of ECK...
              > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
              >
              > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
              > the "Mahanta" once during these
              > months!
              >
              > PT: "I had already been initiated
              > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
              > the same as everybody else, the
              > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
              >
              > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
              > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
              > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
              > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
              > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
              > 1955-65. They even have the same
              > last name! What's this mean? Well,
              > it means that Eckankar was/is based
              > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
              > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
              > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
              > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
              >
              > ***
              > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
              > gives Twitchell's birth year as
              > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
              > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
              > Page.
              >
              > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
              > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
              > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
              > how PT's birthday corresponds
              > to the Spiritual New Year and the
              > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
              > ***
              >
              > PT: "And then I got the Third and
              > Fourth, I went up through About
              > the Seventh at this particular time
              > (pg. 71)."
              >
              > ME: How does one go up to
              > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
              > Wouldn't a person remember
              > what initiation it was if it were
              > true? This is just more proof
              > that Twit was lying once again!
              >
              > PT: "... later [1951], but not
              > on this trip, I followed him up
              > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
              > and I got the finish (12th) of
              > my initiations (pg. 71)."
              >
              > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
              > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
              > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
              > Master! I know this because Twitchell
              > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
              > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
              > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
              > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
              > Jan. 1, 1969.
              >
              > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
              > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
              > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
              > right? I just can't figure out what it
              > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > etznab wrote:
              >
              > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
              > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
              >
              > There were other early books that didn't mention
              > it either, if I remember correctly.
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello Etznab and All,
              > I started another thread for this discussion.
              > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
              > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
              > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
              > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
              > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
              > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
              > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
              > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
              > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
              > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
              > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
              > delude its followers.
              >
              > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
              > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
              > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
              > all of those secret teachings and when he made
              > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
              > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
              > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
              > Four More Years that this information (if we
              > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
              > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
              > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
              > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
              > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
              > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
              > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
              > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
              > gap, 1965-1969?
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > Hello Etznab,
              > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
              > Twitchell claims to have received the
              > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
              > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
              > have trouble remembering the details
              > of their lies. That's why Twit made
              > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
              > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
              > created or started the "outer church"
              > on this date. This way he'd remember
              > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
              > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
              > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
              > history, on this date... his birthday!
              >
              > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
              > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
              > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
              > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
              > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
              > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
              > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
              > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
              > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
              > of God.
              >
              > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
              > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
              > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
              > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
              > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
              > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
              > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
              > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
              > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
              > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
              > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
              > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
              > a past track record of lying has been verified
              > by Klemp.
              >
              > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
              > but let's remember that Klemp states that
              > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
              > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
              > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
              > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
              > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
              > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
              > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
              >
              > If one has paid attention they will see that
              > Klemp has not only given new covers to
              > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
              > as well. Just look at the differences and
              > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
              > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
              > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
              > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
              > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
              > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
              > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
              >
              > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
              > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
              > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
              > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
              > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
              > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > etznab wrote:
              >
              > hat was interesting what you said about
              > "Mahanta".
              >
              > Just the other day I was trying to remember
              > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
              > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
              > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
              > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
              >
              > Was that the date?
              >
              > I assumed the writing about it would have to
              > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
              > for books after that date.
              >
              > The Flute of God came out in installments
              > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
              > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
              > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
              > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
              > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
              > to Darwin Gross, I think.
              >
              > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
              > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
              > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
              > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
              > various other forms of "Master".
              >
              > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
              > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
              >
              > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
              > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
              > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
              > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
              > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
              > The Flute of God).
              >
              > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
              > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
              > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
              > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
              > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
              >
              > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
              > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
              >
              > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
              > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
              > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
              > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
              > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
              >
              > I'd like to find out when that experience was
              > mentioned and what was said about it to get
              > an idea about what "history" might exist.
              >
              > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
              > I thought this query could be relevant to the
              > "Mahanta" topic.
              >
              > Etznab
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
              > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
              >
              > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
              >
              > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
              > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
              > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
              > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
              > true."
              >
              > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
              > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
              > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
              > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
              > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
              > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
              > "The Wisdom Notes."
              >
              > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
              > Twitchell stole even the name from another
              > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
              > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
              > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
              > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
              > form This was easy to accept, for most people
              > believe in some universal force whether called
              > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
              > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
              > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
              > of two words, he was able to transform himself
              > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
              > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
              > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
              > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
              > by making it part of "every word, thought and
              > action" of his followers."
              >
              > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
              > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
              > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
              > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
              > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
              > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
              > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
              >
              > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
              > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
              > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
              > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
              > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
              > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
              > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
              >
              > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
              > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
              > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
              > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
              > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
              > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
              > reproach and regain control as the highest of
              > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
              > title and definition.
              >
              > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
              > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
              > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
              > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
              > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
              > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
              > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
              > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
              > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
              > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
              > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
              > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
              > straight!
              >
              > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
              > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
              > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
              > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
              > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
              > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
              > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
              > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
              > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
              > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
              > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
              > 970th LEM, was from.
              >
              > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
              > wanted to present more details than what
              > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
              > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
              > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
              > up for him, as well as, creating his own
              > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
              > and distortions.
              >
              > There's one more thing that I wanted to
              > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
              > Christians believe that Jesus will come
              > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
              > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
              > Freedom via God-Realization in this
              > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
              >
              > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
              > will deny this, but they share the same
              > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
              > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
              > switch and made Adam into Adom and
              > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
              > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
              > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
              > where ECKists have made fun of the
              > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
              > would seem that they are laughing
              > at themselves and don't realize it!
              > How clueless! Then again, an inability
              > to do critical thinking and Not being
              > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
              > still ECKists.
              >
              > Prometheus
            • prometheus_973
              Twitchell s manuscript was a work in progress with rewrites and tweaking during his time (1955-65) spent with his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh. Klemp even
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 7, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Twitchell's manuscript was a work
                in progress with rewrites and tweaking
                during his time (1955-65) spent with
                his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh.

                Klemp even mentions Kirpal on
                Eckankar.org and his involvement
                with The Tiger's Fang manuscript
                not long before it was published.
                Read the two sections titled "Struggle
                for Mastership" and "Beginnings
                of Eckankar" listed below.

                http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

                Interesting too that Klemp mentions
                Kirpal Singh by name 15 times during
                this "Behind the Scenes with Paul Twitchell"
                while only mentioning former 970th LEM
                Sudar Singh's name 6 times! Count and see!

                Here, in Chapter 8, Twitchell has Sugmad
                speaking to him and Kirpal (Rebazar). This
                is just one of the problems that Kirpal had
                with this manuscript. Anyway, here are some
                quotes:

                Sugmad:

                "You are also God! You are myself! I!

                1) "My First Principle is that this true cosmos IS!

                2) "My Second Principle is that there is no
                God but me, I; not me as you know, but
                that which is within you, the Self. Therefore
                all is God, include the lowest of life.

                3) "My Third Principle is that to have divinity,
                you must dwell in the center of my Light
                and Sound; and since Light is God, and God
                is Light then IT is everywhere, and has No
                Focus except in each Soul. Thus I must dwell
                in the Light within Me!

                4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth is
                greater than the Lie, and truth is never greater
                than No truth, for the latter is the shining ideal
                which God holds before the Soul in his true kingdom!

                ***
                It seems to me that Paul, at first, was wanting
                to share some of his views and to become a
                real writer with a book. Gail talked him into
                making it into a religion when interest picked
                up at his book promotions and people started
                to look to Twit as their modern day saviour/prophet!
                Klemp merely positioned himself at the ESC
                and inherited the LEM title as Darwin's writer.

                Prometheus



                Hello Etznab and All,
                I started another thread for this discussion.
                Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                delude its followers.

                Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                all of those secret teachings and when he made
                PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                Four More Years that this information (if we
                believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                gap, 1965-1969?

                Prometheus


                Hello Etznab,
                It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                Twitchell claims to have received the
                Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                have trouble remembering the details
                of their lies. That's why Twit made
                the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                created or started the "outer church"
                on this date. This way he'd remember
                it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                history, on this date... his birthday!

                PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                of God.

                As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                a past track record of lying has been verified
                by Klemp.

                The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                but let's remember that Klemp states that
                Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

                If one has paid attention they will see that
                Klemp has not only given new covers to
                Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                as well. Just look at the differences and
                changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

                Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

                Prometheus




                etznab wrote:

                hat was interesting what you said about
                "Mahanta".

                Just the other day I was trying to remember
                exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

                Was that the date?

                I assumed the writing about it would have to
                be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                for books after that date.

                The Flute of God came out in installments
                in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                to Darwin Gross, I think.

                1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                various other forms of "Master".

                All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

                It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                The Flute of God).

                The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

                The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

                OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                it at a seminar and it's on tape?

                I'd like to find out when that experience was
                mentioned and what was said about it to get
                an idea about what "history" might exist.

                Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                I thought this query could be relevant to the
                "Mahanta" topic.

                Etznab

                prometheus wrote:

                Hello All,
                I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

                Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

                In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                true."

                ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                "The Wisdom Notes."

                Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                Twitchell stole even the name from another
                spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                form This was easy to accept, for most people
                believe in some universal force whether called
                "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                of two words, he was able to transform himself
                into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                by making it part of "every word, thought and
                action" of his followers."

                ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                create this term/position for himself until 1969.

                BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

                The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                reproach and regain control as the highest of
                all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                title and definition.

                Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                straight!

                Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                970th LEM, was from.

                I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                wanted to present more details than what
                were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                up for him, as well as, creating his own
                newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                and distortions.

                There's one more thing that I wanted to
                mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                Christians believe that Jesus will come
                again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                Freedom via God-Realization in this
                lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

                Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                will deny this, but they share the same
                Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                switch and made Adam into Adom and
                Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                where ECKists have made fun of the
                Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                would seem that they are laughing
                at themselves and don't realize it!
                How clueless! Then again, an inability
                to do critical thinking and Not being
                able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                still ECKists.

                Prometheus
              • prometheus_973
                Let s take another look at The Tiger s Fang which Eckankar continues to sell. In Chapter 8 the Four Principles of Sugmad were given to Paul and Rebazar
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 9, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Let's take another look at "The
                  Tiger's Fang" which Eckankar
                  continues to sell.

                  In Chapter 8 the Four Principles
                  of Sugmad were given to Paul
                  and Rebazar (Kirpal Singh) by
                  Sugmad himself. Here's number Four:

                  4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth
                  is greater than the Lie,

                  and truth is Never Greater than No truth,

                  for the latter [no truth, the lie] is the
                  shining ideal which God holds before
                  the Soul in his true kingdom!"

                  ME: So, Twit/Suggie is saying that
                  "the Lie" (his no truth) is greater than
                  the truth.

                  And, "the Lie" (no truth) is greater than truth!

                  However, he's saying that the latter (no truth)
                  is the "shining ideal" - the Perfect Lie!

                  Maybe the perfect lie is the shining ideal
                  for a conman! Is this a Freudian slip by
                  Twitchell? After all, Twitchell lied about
                  everything in order to create Eckankar.

                  When one looks at Twit's track record
                  you can see that he's been lying, plagiarizing,
                  and distorting the truth by "exaggerating,"
                  and "twisting facts" for most of his life.
                  At age 27 (1935) he was lying on a grand
                  scale to get into Who's Who in Kentucky,
                  and Klemp points that out! Paul lied about
                  his age in order to attract Gail who was
                  33 years younger, thus, everything PT wrote
                  about age not mattering, Soul is ageless,
                  or about one's right to privacy and that the
                  government didn't need to know this info
                  (birth records) were used to cover-up and
                  distract people.

                  I wonder what Gail and Patti thought
                  about Paul's "Virgin Birth" and "Mahanta"
                  story? They both went along with it didn't
                  they! As I pointed out, just look in the
                  index of the Shariyat One for, "Mahanta,
                  birth of."

                  Plus, let's not forget that trip to "Paris"
                  where Paul (at age 15) stayed with his
                  "step-sister" Kay-Dee and then met
                  Sudar Singh and traveled to India with
                  him where they, supposedly, stayed for
                  one year! Paul claimed to have gotten
                  the Second Initiation from Sudar while
                  there.

                  Marman has pointed out that this was
                  Paris, Kentucky and Not Paris, France.
                  Therefore, Paul and Kay-Dee could not
                  have met Sudar Singh while there nor
                  traveled to India. Thus, Paul never got
                  the Second Initiation from Sudar as
                  he claimed!

                  Therefore, later, Sudar couldn't have
                  handed Paul off to Rebazar where PT,
                  supposedly, received his 3rd-7th
                  initiations! Then, on his "second trip,"
                  Paul claims to have received the 8th-
                  12th from Rebazar. None of it happened
                  since Sudar and Rebazar were fictitious
                  characters... like in a novel! This is
                  just one more reason why the "Difficulties
                  of Becoming the LEM" (1971 tape
                  transcriptions) was bought up and
                  destroyed.

                  So, I wonder why Marman hasn't
                  pieced the puzzel together by now,
                  or has he? Is Marman covering-up
                  for Klemp? After all, if Twitchell never
                  met Sudar in "Paris, France" then he
                  didn't travel with him to India and
                  didn't get the 2nd Initiation. Thus,
                  PT didn't get handed over to Rebazar
                  and never received the 12th Initiation
                  and never became the 971st LEM/Mahanta!

                  Therefore, Darwin's Initiations came
                  from a poser, an impostor, with No
                  Initiations coming from a "lineage
                  of ECK Masters!" Thus, Klemp is a
                  poser too! Those initiations Darwin
                  gave Klemp are invalid. Rebazar does
                  Not exist except in people's imaginations.
                  It's all fabricated, it's a lie and Klemp,
                  with Marman's help, is covering it up
                  too!

                  However, most religions are built
                  upon lies and myth (distortions of
                  fact and unscientific explanations
                  of nature). Religions rely upon giving
                  "spiritual answers" to questions about
                  creation and life and death and the
                  beyond. They give hope of another
                  life after death, but there's a catch!

                  One has to believe in their stories
                  and follow their rules, laws, and
                  guidelines and one has to bow down
                  to the (RESA) Hierarchy. One has to
                  hang onto and worship every word
                  spoken by their God's representative
                  on earth... the Godman (Klemp).

                  I guess that HK rationalizes his
                  lies by thinking that he's providing
                  a service to lost Souls. If it wasn't
                  for Eckankar these New Agers wouldn't
                  have anything to believe in to give
                  them hope.

                  On the other hand, if it wasn't
                  for Twitchell's Eckankar scam
                  Klemp wouldn't have had
                  such a good paying job with all
                  of those perks. It's hard to say
                  what he would be doing or where
                  he'd be living if it wasn't for being
                  promoted to LEM by Darwin. Chances
                  are he'd still be a 7th, or maybe an
                  8th initiate, and working at the ESC.
                  He'd be writing EK brochures or books
                  like Phil Morimitsu once wrote.

                  BTW-What ever happened to those
                  books? Klemp doesn't like the competition
                  does he!

                  prometheus



                  ***********************************
                  Twitchell's manuscript was a work
                  in progress with rewrites and tweaking
                  during his time (1955-65) spent with
                  his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh.

                  Klemp even mentions Kirpal on
                  Eckankar.org and his involvement
                  with The Tiger's Fang manuscript
                  not long before it was published.
                  Read the two sections titled "Struggle
                  for Mastership" and "Beginnings
                  of Eckankar" listed below.

                  http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

                  Interesting too that Klemp mentions
                  Kirpal Singh by name 15 times during
                  this "Behind the Scenes with Paul Twitchell"
                  while only mentioning former 970th LEM
                  Sudar Singh's name 6 times! Count and see!

                  Here, in Chapter 8, Twitchell has Sugmad
                  speaking to him and Kirpal (Rebazar). This
                  is just one of the problems that Kirpal had
                  with this manuscript. Anyway, here are some
                  quotes:

                  Sugmad:

                  "You are also God! You are myself! I!

                  1) "My First Principle is that this true cosmos IS!

                  2) "My Second Principle is that there is no
                  God but me, I; not me as you know, but
                  that which is within you, the Self. Therefore
                  all is God, include the lowest of life.

                  3) "My Third Principle is that to have divinity,
                  you must dwell in the center of my Light
                  and Sound; and since Light is God, and God
                  is Light then IT is everywhere, and has No
                  Focus except in each Soul. Thus I must dwell
                  in the Light within Me!

                  4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth is
                  greater than the Lie, and truth is never greater
                  than No truth, for the latter is the shining ideal
                  which God holds before the Soul in his true kingdom!

                  ***
                  It seems to me that Paul, at first, was wanting
                  to share some of his views and to become a
                  real writer with a book. Gail talked him into
                  making it into a religion when interest picked
                  up at his book promotions and people started
                  to look to Twit as their modern day saviour/prophet!
                  Klemp merely positioned himself at the ESC
                  and inherited the LEM title as Darwin's writer.

                  Prometheus



                  Hello Etznab and All,
                  I started another thread for this discussion.
                  Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                  1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                  until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                  up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                  that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                  Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                  and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                  Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                  one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                  editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                  fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                  delude its followers.

                  Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                  Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                  of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                  all of those secret teachings and when he made
                  PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                  mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                  one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                  Four More Years that this information (if we
                  believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                  Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                  the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                  it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                  the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                  the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                  are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                  some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                  gap, 1965-1969?

                  Prometheus


                  Hello Etznab,
                  It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                  Twitchell claims to have received the
                  Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                  he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                  have trouble remembering the details
                  of their lies. That's why Twit made
                  the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                  his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                  created or started the "outer church"
                  on this date. This way he'd remember
                  it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                  is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                  every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                  history, on this date... his birthday!

                  PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                  (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                  REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                  these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                  The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                  didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                  due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                  and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                  given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                  of God.

                  As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                  This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                  1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                  name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                  Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                  did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                  publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                  to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                  as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                  even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                  in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                  get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                  a past track record of lying has been verified
                  by Klemp.

                  The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                  but let's remember that Klemp states that
                  Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                  Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                  mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                  that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                  there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                  in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                  "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

                  If one has paid attention they will see that
                  Klemp has not only given new covers to
                  Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                  as well. Just look at the differences and
                  changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                  Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                  to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                  current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                  sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                  works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                  the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

                  Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                  ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                  included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                  these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                  How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                  of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

                  Prometheus




                  etznab wrote:

                  hat was interesting what you said about
                  "Mahanta".

                  Just the other day I was trying to remember
                  exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                  experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                  and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                  Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

                  Was that the date?

                  I assumed the writing about it would have to
                  be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                  for books after that date.

                  The Flute of God came out in installments
                  in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                  to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                  have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                  out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                  1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                  to Darwin Gross, I think.

                  1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                  (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                  took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                  mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                  various other forms of "Master".

                  All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                  In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

                  It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                  "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                  By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                  The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                  I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                  The Flute of God).

                  The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                  from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                  he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                  one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                  "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

                  The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                  "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

                  OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                  does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                  of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                  anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                  it at a seminar and it's on tape?

                  I'd like to find out when that experience was
                  mentioned and what was said about it to get
                  an idea about what "history" might exist.

                  Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                  I thought this query could be relevant to the
                  "Mahanta" topic.

                  Etznab

                  prometheus wrote:

                  Hello All,
                  I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                  Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

                  Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

                  In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                  condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                  delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                  1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                  true."

                  ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                  Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                  In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                  January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                  see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                  the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                  "The Wisdom Notes."

                  Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                  Twitchell stole even the name from another
                  spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                  in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                  was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                  of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                  form This was easy to accept, for most people
                  believe in some universal force whether called
                  "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                  associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                  and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                  of two words, he was able to transform himself
                  into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                  meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                  "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                  and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                  by making it part of "every word, thought and
                  action" of his followers."

                  ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                  be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                  in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                  Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                  Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                  in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                  create this term/position for himself until 1969.

                  BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                  by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                  Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                  used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                  (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                  that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                  was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

                  The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                  on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                  Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                  This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                  to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                  up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                  reproach and regain control as the highest of
                  all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                  title and definition.

                  Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                  for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                  on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                  12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                  states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                  Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                  need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                  on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                  for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                  of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                  is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                  Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                  straight!

                  Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                  Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                  by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                  Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                  page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                  was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                  interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                  had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                  talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                  Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                  that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                  970th LEM, was from.

                  I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                  wanted to present more details than what
                  were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                  for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                  Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                  up for him, as well as, creating his own
                  newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                  and distortions.

                  There's one more thing that I wanted to
                  mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                  Christians believe that Jesus will come
                  again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                  believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                  Freedom via God-Realization in this
                  lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!


                  Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                  will deny this, but they share the same
                  Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                  Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                  switch and made Adam into Adom and
                  Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                  for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                  Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                  where ECKists have made fun of the
                  Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                  would seem that they are laughing
                  at themselves and don't realize it!
                  How clueless! Then again, an inability
                  to do critical thinking and Not being
                  able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                  still ECKists.

                  Prometheus
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