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Re: Rebazar Was NOT a Mahanta in The Tiger's Fang

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Ingrid and All, Yes, all religions take our money in one way or another. All of us pay for their Holy Wars that they wage upon the rest of us. Their members
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 4 12:48 PM
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      Hi Ingrid and All,
      Yes, all religions take our money
      in one way or another. All of us pay
      for their Holy Wars that they wage
      upon the rest of us. Their members
      also pay for future promises and to
      feel good and all puffed-up, now,
      while looking down their noses at
      all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
      interesting that so many of them
      believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
      dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
      Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
      that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
      (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).

      Prometheus

      ctecvie wrote:

      Hi Prometheus and all,

      commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
      Religions pretend that they can give answers to
      questions that cannot be answered. We need to
      accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
      And that's where religions come in and make (our)
      money!

      Ingrid


      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
      >
      > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
      > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
      > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
      > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
      > and stayed in Allahabad, India
      > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
      >
      > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
      > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
      > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
      > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
      >
      > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
      > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
      > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
      > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
      > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
      > eckankar.org
      >
      > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
      > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
      > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
      > lied as to how many times he traveled
      > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
      > Twit ever travelled to India!
      >
      > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
      > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
      > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
      > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
      >
      > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
      > conned people and that Klemp is still
      > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
      > But, should anyone be surprised when
      > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
      > gullible and loving people? Most people
      > want to believe and they want to believe
      > the best in whatever or whomever.
      > Everyone has to figure out what category
      > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
      > are manmade just as religions are.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      > Hello Etznab and All,
      > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
      > Living ECK Master" are historical
      > transcriptions from private tapings
      > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
      >
      > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
      > made private tapings of his struggles
      > before and after his acceptance
      > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
      > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
      > who presented these tapes to Sri
      > Darwin.)"
      >
      > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
      > Twitchell tells his story of being
      > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
      > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
      > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
      > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
      > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
      > lie! Marman states that this was
      > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
      > as Paul would have us to believe.
      >
      > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
      > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
      > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
      > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
      > his "grand achievements" to get
      > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
      > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
      > (France) nor to India at age 15
      > in 1923!
      >
      http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
      >
      >
      >
      > Twit states:
      > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
      > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
      > six to seven months being taught
      > and learning the works of ECK...
      > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
      >
      > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
      > the "Mahanta" once during these
      > months!
      >
      > PT: "I had already been initiated
      > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
      > the same as everybody else, the
      > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
      >
      > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
      > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
      > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
      > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
      > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
      > 1955-65. They even have the same
      > last name! What's this mean? Well,
      > it means that Eckankar was/is based
      > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
      > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
      > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
      > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
      >
      > ***
      > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
      > gives Twitchell's birth year as
      > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
      > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
      > Page.
      >
      > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
      > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
      > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
      > how PT's birthday corresponds
      > to the Spiritual New Year and the
      > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
      > ***
      >
      > PT: "And then I got the Third and
      > Fourth, I went up through About
      > the Seventh at this particular time
      > (pg. 71)."
      >
      > ME: How does one go up to
      > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
      > Wouldn't a person remember
      > what initiation it was if it were
      > true? This is just more proof
      > that Twit was lying once again!
      >
      > PT: "... later [1951], but not
      > on this trip, I followed him up
      > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
      > and I got the finish (12th) of
      > my initiations (pg. 71)."
      >
      > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
      > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
      > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
      > Master! I know this because Twitchell
      > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
      > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
      > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
      > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
      > Jan. 1, 1969.
      >
      > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
      > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
      > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
      > right? I just can't figure out what it
      > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > etznab wrote:
      >
      > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
      > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
      >
      > There were other early books that didn't mention
      > it either, if I remember correctly.
      >
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Etznab and All,
      > I started another thread for this discussion.
      > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
      > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
      > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
      > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
      > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
      > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
      > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
      > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
      > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
      > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
      > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
      > delude its followers.
      >
      > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
      > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
      > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
      > all of those secret teachings and when he made
      > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
      > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
      > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
      > Four More Years that this information (if we
      > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
      > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
      > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
      > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
      > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
      > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
      > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
      > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
      > gap, 1965-1969?
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > Hello Etznab,
      > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
      > Twitchell claims to have received the
      > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
      > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
      > have trouble remembering the details
      > of their lies. That's why Twit made
      > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
      > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
      > created or started the "outer church"
      > on this date. This way he'd remember
      > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
      > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
      > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
      > history, on this date... his birthday!
      >
      > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
      > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
      > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
      > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
      > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
      > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
      > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
      > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
      > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
      > of God.
      >
      > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
      > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
      > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
      > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
      > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
      > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
      > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
      > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
      > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
      > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
      > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
      > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
      > a past track record of lying has been verified
      > by Klemp.
      >
      > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
      > but let's remember that Klemp states that
      > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
      > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
      > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
      > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
      > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
      > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
      > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
      >
      > If one has paid attention they will see that
      > Klemp has not only given new covers to
      > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
      > as well. Just look at the differences and
      > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
      > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
      > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
      > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
      > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
      > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
      > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
      >
      > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
      > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
      > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
      > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
      > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
      > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > etznab wrote:
      >
      > hat was interesting what you said about
      > "Mahanta".
      >
      > Just the other day I was trying to remember
      > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
      > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
      > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
      > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
      >
      > Was that the date?
      >
      > I assumed the writing about it would have to
      > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
      > for books after that date.
      >
      > The Flute of God came out in installments
      > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
      > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
      > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
      > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
      > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
      > to Darwin Gross, I think.
      >
      > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
      > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
      > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
      > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
      > various other forms of "Master".
      >
      > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
      > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
      >
      > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
      > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
      > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
      > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
      > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
      > The Flute of God).
      >
      > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
      > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
      > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
      > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
      > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
      >
      > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
      > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
      >
      > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
      > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
      > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
      > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
      > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
      >
      > I'd like to find out when that experience was
      > mentioned and what was said about it to get
      > an idea about what "history" might exist.
      >
      > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
      > I thought this query could be relevant to the
      > "Mahanta" topic.
      >
      > Etznab
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
      > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
      >
      > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
      >
      > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
      > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
      > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
      > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
      > true."
      >
      > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
      > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
      > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
      > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
      > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
      > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
      > "The Wisdom Notes."
      >
      > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
      > Twitchell stole even the name from another
      > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
      > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
      > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
      > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
      > form This was easy to accept, for most people
      > believe in some universal force whether called
      > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
      > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
      > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
      > of two words, he was able to transform himself
      > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
      > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
      > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
      > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
      > by making it part of "every word, thought and
      > action" of his followers."
      >
      > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
      > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
      > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
      > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
      > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
      > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
      > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
      >
      > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
      > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
      > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
      > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
      > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
      > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
      > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
      >
      > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
      > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
      > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
      > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
      > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
      > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
      > reproach and regain control as the highest of
      > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
      > title and definition.
      >
      > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
      > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
      > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
      > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
      > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
      > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
      > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
      > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
      > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
      > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
      > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
      > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
      > straight!
      >
      > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
      > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
      > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
      > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
      > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
      > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
      > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
      > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
      > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
      > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
      > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
      > 970th LEM, was from.
      >
      > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
      > wanted to present more details than what
      > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
      > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
      > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
      > up for him, as well as, creating his own
      > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
      > and distortions.
      >
      > There's one more thing that I wanted to
      > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
      > Christians believe that Jesus will come
      > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
      > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
      > Freedom via God-Realization in this
      > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
      >
      > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
      > will deny this, but they share the same
      > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
      > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
      > switch and made Adam into Adom and
      > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
      > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
      > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
      > where ECKists have made fun of the
      > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
      > would seem that they are laughing
      > at themselves and don't realize it!
      > How clueless! Then again, an inability
      > to do critical thinking and Not being
      > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
      > still ECKists.
      >
      > Prometheus
    • ctecvie
      Hi Prometheus, yes the feel good factor is another important issue why people need religions. Isn t it just great to feel like the ones who will be saved
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 5 2:11 AM
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        Hi Prometheus,

        yes the "feel good" factor is another important issue why people need religions. Isn't it just great to feel like the ones who will be "saved" because they belong to the "right" group of people and to just know it all? It's really so good to look down on the poor devils who haven't figured it out for themselves ... :-D

        And the karma thingie in eckankar is the same thing as the original sin of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened their eyes, they could see that very easily! LOL!

        Ingrid

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Ingrid and All,
        > Yes, all religions take our money
        > in one way or another. All of us pay
        > for their Holy Wars that they wage
        > upon the rest of us. Their members
        > also pay for future promises and to
        > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
        > while looking down their noses at
        > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
        > interesting that so many of them
        > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
        > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
        > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
        > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
        > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > ctecvie wrote:
        >
        > Hi Prometheus and all,
        >
        > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
        > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
        > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
        > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
        > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
        > money!
        >
        > Ingrid
        >
        >
        > prometheus wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello All,
        > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
        > >
        > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
        > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
        > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
        > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
        > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
        > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
        > >
        > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
        > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
        > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
        > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
        > >
        > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
        > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
        > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
        > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
        > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
        > > eckankar.org
        > >
        > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
        > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
        > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
        > > lied as to how many times he traveled
        > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
        > > Twit ever travelled to India!
        > >
        > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
        > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
        > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
        > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
        > >
        > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
        > > conned people and that Klemp is still
        > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
        > > But, should anyone be surprised when
        > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
        > > gullible and loving people? Most people
        > > want to believe and they want to believe
        > > the best in whatever or whomever.
        > > Everyone has to figure out what category
        > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
        > > are manmade just as religions are.
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > >
        > > prometheus wrote:
        > > Hello Etznab and All,
        > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
        > > Living ECK Master" are historical
        > > transcriptions from private tapings
        > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
        > >
        > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
        > > made private tapings of his struggles
        > > before and after his acceptance
        > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
        > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
        > > who presented these tapes to Sri
        > > Darwin.)"
        > >
        > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
        > > Twitchell tells his story of being
        > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
        > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
        > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
        > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
        > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
        > > lie! Marman states that this was
        > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
        > > as Paul would have us to believe.
        > >
        > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
        > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
        > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
        > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
        > > his "grand achievements" to get
        > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
        > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
        > > (France) nor to India at age 15
        > > in 1923!
        > >
        > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Twit states:
        > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
        > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
        > > six to seven months being taught
        > > and learning the works of ECK...
        > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
        > >
        > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
        > > the "Mahanta" once during these
        > > months!
        > >
        > > PT: "I had already been initiated
        > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
        > > the same as everybody else, the
        > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
        > >
        > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
        > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
        > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
        > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
        > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
        > > 1955-65. They even have the same
        > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
        > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
        > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
        > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
        > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
        > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
        > >
        > > ***
        > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
        > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
        > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
        > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
        > > Page.
        > >
        > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
        > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
        > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
        > > how PT's birthday corresponds
        > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
        > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
        > > ***
        > >
        > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
        > > Fourth, I went up through About
        > > the Seventh at this particular time
        > > (pg. 71)."
        > >
        > > ME: How does one go up to
        > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
        > > Wouldn't a person remember
        > > what initiation it was if it were
        > > true? This is just more proof
        > > that Twit was lying once again!
        > >
        > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
        > > on this trip, I followed him up
        > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
        > > and I got the finish (12th) of
        > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
        > >
        > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
        > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
        > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
        > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
        > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
        > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
        > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
        > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
        > > Jan. 1, 1969.
        > >
        > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
        > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
        > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
        > > right? I just can't figure out what it
        > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > >
        > > etznab wrote:
        > >
        > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
        > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
        > >
        > > There were other early books that didn't mention
        > > it either, if I remember correctly.
        > >
        > >
        > > prometheus wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Etznab and All,
        > > I started another thread for this discussion.
        > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
        > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
        > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
        > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
        > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
        > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
        > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
        > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
        > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
        > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
        > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
        > > delude its followers.
        > >
        > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
        > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
        > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
        > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
        > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
        > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
        > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
        > > Four More Years that this information (if we
        > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
        > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
        > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
        > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
        > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
        > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
        > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
        > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
        > > gap, 1965-1969?
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > > Hello Etznab,
        > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
        > > Twitchell claims to have received the
        > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
        > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
        > > have trouble remembering the details
        > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
        > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
        > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
        > > created or started the "outer church"
        > > on this date. This way he'd remember
        > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
        > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
        > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
        > > history, on this date... his birthday!
        > >
        > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
        > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
        > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
        > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
        > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
        > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
        > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
        > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
        > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
        > > of God.
        > >
        > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
        > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
        > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
        > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
        > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
        > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
        > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
        > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
        > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
        > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
        > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
        > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
        > > a past track record of lying has been verified
        > > by Klemp.
        > >
        > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
        > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
        > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
        > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
        > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
        > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
        > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
        > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
        > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
        > >
        > > If one has paid attention they will see that
        > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
        > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
        > > as well. Just look at the differences and
        > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
        > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
        > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
        > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
        > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
        > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
        > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
        > >
        > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
        > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
        > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
        > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
        > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
        > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > > etznab wrote:
        > >
        > > hat was interesting what you said about
        > > "Mahanta".
        > >
        > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
        > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
        > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
        > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
        > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
        > >
        > > Was that the date?
        > >
        > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
        > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
        > > for books after that date.
        > >
        > > The Flute of God came out in installments
        > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
        > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
        > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
        > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
        > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
        > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
        > >
        > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
        > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
        > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
        > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
        > > various other forms of "Master".
        > >
        > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
        > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
        > >
        > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
        > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
        > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
        > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
        > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
        > > The Flute of God).
        > >
        > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
        > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
        > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
        > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
        > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
        > >
        > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
        > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
        > >
        > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
        > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
        > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
        > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
        > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
        > >
        > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
        > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
        > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
        > >
        > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
        > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
        > > "Mahanta" topic.
        > >
        > > Etznab
        > >
        > > prometheus wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello All,
        > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
        > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
        > >
        > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
        > >
        > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
        > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
        > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
        > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
        > > true."
        > >
        > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
        > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
        > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
        > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
        > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
        > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
        > > "The Wisdom Notes."
        > >
        > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
        > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
        > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
        > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
        > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
        > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
        > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
        > > believe in some universal force whether called
        > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
        > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
        > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
        > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
        > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
        > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
        > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
        > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
        > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
        > > action" of his followers."
        > >
        > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
        > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
        > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
        > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
        > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
        > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
        > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
        > >
        > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
        > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
        > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
        > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
        > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
        > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
        > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
        > >
        > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
        > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
        > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
        > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
        > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
        > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
        > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
        > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
        > > title and definition.
        > >
        > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
        > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
        > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
        > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
        > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
        > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
        > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
        > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
        > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
        > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
        > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
        > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
        > > straight!
        > >
        > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
        > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
        > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
        > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
        > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
        > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
        > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
        > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
        > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
        > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
        > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
        > > 970th LEM, was from.
        > >
        > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
        > > wanted to present more details than what
        > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
        > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
        > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
        > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
        > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
        > > and distortions.
        > >
        > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
        > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
        > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
        > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
        > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
        > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
        > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
        > >
        > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
        > > will deny this, but they share the same
        > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
        > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
        > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
        > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
        > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
        > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
        > > where ECKists have made fun of the
        > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
        > > would seem that they are laughing
        > > at themselves and don't realize it!
        > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
        > > to do critical thinking and Not being
        > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
        > > still ECKists.
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Ingrid, I was curious if you know how many countries force people to pay a tax for church membership? Which countries and which churches does it include?
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 5 3:05 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Ingrid,
          I was curious if you know how
          many countries force people to
          pay a tax for church membership?
          Which countries and which churches
          does it include? Why are these
          governments forcing people to
          pay this tax? Are the churches that
          powerful, or is the government taking
          their cut too? Is it just the Catholic and
          Lutheran churches? Were you forced
          to pay a tax due to Eckankar membership?

          Forgive the questions but I've heard
          something about this happening in
          Germany.

          Prometheus


          ctecvie wrote:

          Hi Prometheus,

          yes the "feel good" factor is another
          important issue why people need
          religions. Isn't it just great to feel
          like the ones who will be "saved"
          because they belong to the "right"
          group of people and to just know
          it all? It's really so good to look
          down on the poor devils who haven't
          figured it out for themselves
          ... :-D

          And the karma thingie in eckankar
          is the same thing as the original sin
          of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened
          their eyes, they could see that very easily!
          LOL!

          Ingrid

          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hi Ingrid and All,
          > Yes, all religions take our money
          > in one way or another. All of us pay
          > for their Holy Wars that they wage
          > upon the rest of us. Their members
          > also pay for future promises and to
          > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
          > while looking down their noses at
          > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
          > interesting that so many of them
          > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
          > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
          > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
          > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
          > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > ctecvie wrote:
          >
          > Hi Prometheus and all,
          >
          > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
          > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
          > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
          > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
          > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
          > money!
          >
          > Ingrid
          >
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello All,
          > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
          > >
          > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
          > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
          > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
          > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
          > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
          > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
          > >
          > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
          > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
          > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
          > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
          > >
          > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
          > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
          > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
          > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
          > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
          > > eckankar.org
          > >
          > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
          > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
          > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
          > > lied as to how many times he traveled
          > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
          > > Twit ever travelled to India!
          > >
          > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
          > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
          > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
          > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
          > >
          > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
          > > conned people and that Klemp is still
          > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
          > > But, should anyone be surprised when
          > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
          > > gullible and loving people? Most people
          > > want to believe and they want to believe
          > > the best in whatever or whomever.
          > > Everyone has to figure out what category
          > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
          > > are manmade just as religions are.
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > >
          > > prometheus wrote:
          > > Hello Etznab and All,
          > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
          > > Living ECK Master" are historical
          > > transcriptions from private tapings
          > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
          > >
          > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
          > > made private tapings of his struggles
          > > before and after his acceptance
          > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
          > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
          > > who presented these tapes to Sri
          > > Darwin.)"
          > >
          > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
          > > Twitchell tells his story of being
          > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
          > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
          > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
          > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
          > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
          > > lie! Marman states that this was
          > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
          > > as Paul would have us to believe.
          > >
          > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
          > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
          > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
          > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
          > > his "grand achievements" to get
          > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
          > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
          > > (France) nor to India at age 15
          > > in 1923!
          > >
          > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Twit states:
          > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
          > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
          > > six to seven months being taught
          > > and learning the works of ECK...
          > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
          > >
          > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
          > > the "Mahanta" once during these
          > > months!
          > >
          > > PT: "I had already been initiated
          > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
          > > the same as everybody else, the
          > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
          > >
          > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
          > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
          > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
          > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
          > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
          > > 1955-65. They even have the same
          > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
          > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
          > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
          > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
          > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
          > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
          > >
          > > ***
          > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
          > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
          > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
          > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
          > > Page.
          > >
          > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
          > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
          > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
          > > how PT's birthday corresponds
          > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
          > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
          > > ***
          > >
          > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
          > > Fourth, I went up through About
          > > the Seventh at this particular time
          > > (pg. 71)."
          > >
          > > ME: How does one go up to
          > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
          > > Wouldn't a person remember
          > > what initiation it was if it were
          > > true? This is just more proof
          > > that Twit was lying once again!
          > >
          > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
          > > on this trip, I followed him up
          > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
          > > and I got the finish (12th) of
          > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
          > >
          > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
          > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
          > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
          > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
          > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
          > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
          > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
          > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
          > > Jan. 1, 1969.
          > >
          > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
          > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
          > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
          > > right? I just can't figure out what it
          > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > >
          > > etznab wrote:
          > >
          > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
          > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
          > >
          > > There were other early books that didn't mention
          > > it either, if I remember correctly.
          > >
          > >
          > > prometheus wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello Etznab and All,
          > > I started another thread for this discussion.
          > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
          > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
          > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
          > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
          > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
          > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
          > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
          > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
          > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
          > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
          > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
          > > delude its followers.
          > >
          > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
          > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
          > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
          > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
          > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
          > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
          > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
          > > Four More Years that this information (if we
          > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
          > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
          > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
          > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
          > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
          > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
          > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
          > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
          > > gap, 1965-1969?
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > > Hello Etznab,
          > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
          > > Twitchell claims to have received the
          > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
          > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
          > > have trouble remembering the details
          > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
          > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
          > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
          > > created or started the "outer church"
          > > on this date. This way he'd remember
          > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
          > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
          > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
          > > history, on this date... his birthday!
          > >
          > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
          > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
          > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
          > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
          > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
          > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
          > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
          > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
          > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
          > > of God.
          > >
          > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
          > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
          > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
          > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
          > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
          > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
          > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
          > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
          > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
          > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
          > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
          > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
          > > a past track record of lying has been verified
          > > by Klemp.
          > >
          > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
          > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
          > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
          > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
          > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
          > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
          > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
          > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
          > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
          > >
          > > If one has paid attention they will see that
          > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
          > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
          > > as well. Just look at the differences and
          > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
          > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
          > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
          > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
          > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
          > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
          > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
          > >
          > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
          > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
          > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
          > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
          > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
          > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > > etznab wrote:
          > >
          > > hat was interesting what you said about
          > > "Mahanta".
          > >
          > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
          > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
          > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
          > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
          > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
          > >
          > > Was that the date?
          > >
          > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
          > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
          > > for books after that date.
          > >
          > > The Flute of God came out in installments
          > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
          > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
          > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
          > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
          > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
          > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
          > >
          > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
          > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
          > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
          > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
          > > various other forms of "Master".
          > >
          > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
          > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
          > >
          > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
          > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
          > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
          > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
          > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
          > > The Flute of God).
          > >
          > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
          > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
          > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
          > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
          > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
          > >
          > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
          > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
          > >
          > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
          > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
          > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
          > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
          > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
          > >
          > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
          > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
          > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
          > >
          > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
          > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
          > > "Mahanta" topic.
          > >
          > > Etznab
          > >
          > > prometheus wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello All,
          > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
          > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
          > >
          > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
          > >
          > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
          > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
          > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
          > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
          > > true."
          > >
          > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
          > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
          > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
          > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
          > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
          > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
          > > "The Wisdom Notes."
          > >
          > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
          > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
          > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
          > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
          > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
          > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
          > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
          > > believe in some universal force whether called
          > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
          > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
          > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
          > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
          > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
          > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
          > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
          > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
          > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
          > > action" of his followers."
          > >
          > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
          > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
          > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
          > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
          > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
          > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
          > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
          > >
          > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
          > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
          > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
          > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
          > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
          > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
          > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
          > >
          > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
          > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
          > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
          > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
          > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
          > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
          > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
          > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
          > > title and definition.
          > >
          > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
          > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
          > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
          > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
          > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
          > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
          > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
          > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
          > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
          > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
          > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
          > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
          > > straight!
          > >
          > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
          > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
          > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
          > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
          > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
          > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
          > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
          > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
          > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
          > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
          > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
          > > 970th LEM, was from.
          > >
          > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
          > > wanted to present more details than what
          > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
          > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
          > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
          > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
          > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
          > > and distortions.
          > >
          > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
          > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
          > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
          > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
          > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
          > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
          > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
          > >
          > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
          > > will deny this, but they share the same
          > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
          > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
          > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
          > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
          > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
          > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
          > > where ECKists have made fun of the
          > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
          > > would seem that they are laughing
          > > at themselves and don't realize it!
          > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
          > > to do critical thinking and Not being
          > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
          > > still ECKists.
          > >
          > > Prometheus
        • ctecvie
          Hi Prometheus, ... ***In Austria, it s only the Catholic church. As far as I know, Lutherans don t pay anything. And no, I didn t pay any tex when I was a
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 5 10:03 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Prometheus,

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Ingrid,
            > I was curious if you know how
            > many countries force people to
            > pay a tax for church membership?
            ***In Austria it's the Catholic church. I don't know if there are any other countries but I think that in Germany a church tax is deduced directly from the salary if you are a member of that particular church - I think it's the Lutherans.

            > Which countries and which churches
            > does it include? Why are these
            > governments forcing people to
            > pay this tax?
            ***In Austria, it's not the government but the Catholic church itself. Once you start working and are a Catholic, they come inevitably and charge you a fee. You need to give proof of your salary because if you don't they'll just charge you any amount that comes them to mind. I left the Catholic church in 1986, so no more hassle since that time! If you try to disappear, they'll find you somehow.

            >Are the churches that
            > powerful, or is the government taking
            > their cut too?
            ***Not in Austria, no.
            >Is it just the Catholic and
            > Lutheran churches? Were you forced
            > to pay a tax due to Eckankar membership?
            ***In Austria, it's only the Catholic church. As far as I know, Lutherans don't pay anything. And no, I didn't pay any tex when I was a member of eckankar.
            Ingrid

            >
            > Forgive the questions but I've heard
            > something about this happening in
            > Germany.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > ctecvie wrote:
            >
            > Hi Prometheus,
            >
            > yes the "feel good" factor is another
            > important issue why people need
            > religions. Isn't it just great to feel
            > like the ones who will be "saved"
            > because they belong to the "right"
            > group of people and to just know
            > it all? It's really so good to look
            > down on the poor devils who haven't
            > figured it out for themselves
            > ... :-D
            >
            > And the karma thingie in eckankar
            > is the same thing as the original sin
            > of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened
            > their eyes, they could see that very easily!
            > LOL!
            >
            > Ingrid
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Ingrid and All,
            > > Yes, all religions take our money
            > > in one way or another. All of us pay
            > > for their Holy Wars that they wage
            > > upon the rest of us. Their members
            > > also pay for future promises and to
            > > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
            > > while looking down their noses at
            > > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
            > > interesting that so many of them
            > > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
            > > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
            > > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
            > > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
            > > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            > >
            > > ctecvie wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Prometheus and all,
            > >
            > > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
            > > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
            > > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
            > > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
            > > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
            > > money!
            > >
            > > Ingrid
            > >
            > >
            > > prometheus wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello All,
            > > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
            > > >
            > > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
            > > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
            > > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
            > > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
            > > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
            > > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
            > > >
            > > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
            > > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
            > > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
            > > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
            > > >
            > > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
            > > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
            > > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
            > > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
            > > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
            > > > eckankar.org
            > > >
            > > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
            > > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
            > > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
            > > > lied as to how many times he traveled
            > > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
            > > > Twit ever travelled to India!
            > > >
            > > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
            > > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
            > > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
            > > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
            > > >
            > > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
            > > > conned people and that Klemp is still
            > > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
            > > > But, should anyone be surprised when
            > > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
            > > > gullible and loving people? Most people
            > > > want to believe and they want to believe
            > > > the best in whatever or whomever.
            > > > Everyone has to figure out what category
            > > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
            > > > are manmade just as religions are.
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > prometheus wrote:
            > > > Hello Etznab and All,
            > > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
            > > > Living ECK Master" are historical
            > > > transcriptions from private tapings
            > > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
            > > >
            > > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
            > > > made private tapings of his struggles
            > > > before and after his acceptance
            > > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
            > > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
            > > > who presented these tapes to Sri
            > > > Darwin.)"
            > > >
            > > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
            > > > Twitchell tells his story of being
            > > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
            > > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
            > > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
            > > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
            > > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
            > > > lie! Marman states that this was
            > > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
            > > > as Paul would have us to believe.
            > > >
            > > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
            > > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
            > > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
            > > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
            > > > his "grand achievements" to get
            > > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
            > > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
            > > > (France) nor to India at age 15
            > > > in 1923!
            > > >
            > > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Twit states:
            > > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
            > > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
            > > > six to seven months being taught
            > > > and learning the works of ECK...
            > > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
            > > >
            > > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
            > > > the "Mahanta" once during these
            > > > months!
            > > >
            > > > PT: "I had already been initiated
            > > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
            > > > the same as everybody else, the
            > > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
            > > >
            > > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
            > > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
            > > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
            > > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
            > > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
            > > > 1955-65. They even have the same
            > > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
            > > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
            > > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
            > > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
            > > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
            > > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
            > > >
            > > > ***
            > > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
            > > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
            > > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
            > > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
            > > > Page.
            > > >
            > > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
            > > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
            > > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
            > > > how PT's birthday corresponds
            > > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
            > > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
            > > > ***
            > > >
            > > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
            > > > Fourth, I went up through About
            > > > the Seventh at this particular time
            > > > (pg. 71)."
            > > >
            > > > ME: How does one go up to
            > > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
            > > > Wouldn't a person remember
            > > > what initiation it was if it were
            > > > true? This is just more proof
            > > > that Twit was lying once again!
            > > >
            > > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
            > > > on this trip, I followed him up
            > > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
            > > > and I got the finish (12th) of
            > > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
            > > >
            > > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
            > > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
            > > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
            > > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
            > > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
            > > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
            > > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
            > > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
            > > > Jan. 1, 1969.
            > > >
            > > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
            > > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
            > > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
            > > > right? I just can't figure out what it
            > > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > etznab wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
            > > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
            > > >
            > > > There were other early books that didn't mention
            > > > it either, if I remember correctly.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > prometheus wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello Etznab and All,
            > > > I started another thread for this discussion.
            > > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
            > > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
            > > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
            > > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
            > > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
            > > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
            > > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
            > > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
            > > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
            > > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
            > > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
            > > > delude its followers.
            > > >
            > > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
            > > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
            > > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
            > > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
            > > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
            > > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
            > > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
            > > > Four More Years that this information (if we
            > > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
            > > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
            > > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
            > > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
            > > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
            > > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
            > > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
            > > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
            > > > gap, 1965-1969?
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            > > >
            > > > Hello Etznab,
            > > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
            > > > Twitchell claims to have received the
            > > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
            > > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
            > > > have trouble remembering the details
            > > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
            > > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
            > > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
            > > > created or started the "outer church"
            > > > on this date. This way he'd remember
            > > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
            > > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
            > > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
            > > > history, on this date... his birthday!
            > > >
            > > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
            > > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
            > > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
            > > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
            > > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
            > > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
            > > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
            > > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
            > > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
            > > > of God.
            > > >
            > > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
            > > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
            > > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
            > > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
            > > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
            > > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
            > > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
            > > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
            > > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
            > > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
            > > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
            > > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
            > > > a past track record of lying has been verified
            > > > by Klemp.
            > > >
            > > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
            > > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
            > > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
            > > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
            > > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
            > > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
            > > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
            > > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
            > > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
            > > >
            > > > If one has paid attention they will see that
            > > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
            > > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
            > > > as well. Just look at the differences and
            > > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
            > > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
            > > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
            > > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
            > > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
            > > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
            > > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
            > > >
            > > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
            > > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
            > > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
            > > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
            > > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
            > > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            > > >
            > > > etznab wrote:
            > > >
            > > > hat was interesting what you said about
            > > > "Mahanta".
            > > >
            > > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
            > > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
            > > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
            > > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
            > > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
            > > >
            > > > Was that the date?
            > > >
            > > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
            > > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
            > > > for books after that date.
            > > >
            > > > The Flute of God came out in installments
            > > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
            > > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
            > > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
            > > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
            > > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
            > > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
            > > >
            > > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
            > > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
            > > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
            > > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
            > > > various other forms of "Master".
            > > >
            > > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
            > > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
            > > >
            > > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
            > > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
            > > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
            > > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
            > > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
            > > > The Flute of God).
            > > >
            > > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
            > > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
            > > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
            > > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
            > > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
            > > >
            > > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
            > > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
            > > >
            > > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
            > > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
            > > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
            > > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
            > > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
            > > >
            > > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
            > > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
            > > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
            > > >
            > > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
            > > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
            > > > "Mahanta" topic.
            > > >
            > > > Etznab
            > > >
            > > > prometheus wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello All,
            > > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
            > > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
            > > >
            > > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
            > > >
            > > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
            > > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
            > > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
            > > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
            > > > true."
            > > >
            > > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
            > > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
            > > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
            > > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
            > > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
            > > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
            > > > "The Wisdom Notes."
            > > >
            > > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
            > > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
            > > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
            > > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
            > > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
            > > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
            > > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
            > > > believe in some universal force whether called
            > > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
            > > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
            > > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
            > > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
            > > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
            > > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
            > > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
            > > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
            > > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
            > > > action" of his followers."
            > > >
            > > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
            > > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
            > > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
            > > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
            > > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
            > > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
            > > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
            > > >
            > > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
            > > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
            > > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
            > > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
            > > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
            > > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
            > > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
            > > >
            > > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
            > > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
            > > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
            > > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
            > > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
            > > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
            > > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
            > > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
            > > > title and definition.
            > > >
            > > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
            > > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
            > > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
            > > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
            > > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
            > > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
            > > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
            > > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
            > > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
            > > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
            > > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
            > > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
            > > > straight!
            > > >
            > > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
            > > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
            > > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
            > > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
            > > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
            > > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
            > > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
            > > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
            > > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
            > > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
            > > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
            > > > 970th LEM, was from.
            > > >
            > > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
            > > > wanted to present more details than what
            > > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
            > > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
            > > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
            > > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
            > > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
            > > > and distortions.
            > > >
            > > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
            > > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
            > > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
            > > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
            > > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
            > > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
            > > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
            > > >
            > > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
            > > > will deny this, but they share the same
            > > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
            > > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
            > > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
            > > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
            > > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
            > > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
            > > > where ECKists have made fun of the
            > > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
            > > > would seem that they are laughing
            > > > at themselves and don't realize it!
            > > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
            > > > to do critical thinking and Not being
            > > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
            > > > still ECKists.
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello All, It seems that all religions represent the original pyramid scheme via their hierarchies. Those ECK Vahanas are sales people who have a vested
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 6 9:19 AM
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              Hello All,
              It seems that all religions represent
              the original pyramid scheme via
              their hierarchies. Those ECK Vahanas
              are sales people who have a vested
              interest in the company. They have
              something to gain by selling their
              products (Eckankar materials and
              memberships). Their payment is
              prestige, hope, belief, promises,
              and initiation points while Klemp
              and company acquire more money
              and influence/power over their
              subjects.

              And, it's clear that ECKists can't
              voice displeasure with the way
              things are done because that would
              be "negative."

              Besides, there are repercussions
              for voicing an honest assessment
              of those "above" them. No ECKist
              wants to be Black Listed on initiations
              or on positions and titles within the
              hierarchy. No one wants to be shunned,
              but it does happen. These are just
              part of the control and fear tactics
              used. Thus, Silence, Service and
              Surrender become the three keys
              for Klemp's Success!

              Prometheus




              prometheus wrote:

              Hi Ingrid and All,
              Yes, all religions take our money
              in one way or another. All of us pay
              for their Holy Wars that they wage
              upon the rest of us. Their members
              also pay for future promises and to
              feel good and all puffed-up, now,
              while looking down their noses at
              all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
              interesting that so many of them
              believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
              dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
              Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
              that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
              (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).

              Prometheus

              ctecvie wrote:

              Hi Prometheus and all,

              commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
              Religions pretend that they can give answers to
              questions that cannot be answered. We need to
              accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
              And that's where religions come in and take (our)
              money!

              Ingrid


              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
              >
              > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
              > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
              > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
              > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
              > and stayed in Allahabad, India
              > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
              >
              > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
              > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
              > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
              > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
              >
              > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
              > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
              > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
              > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
              > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
              > eckankar.org
              >
              > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
              > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
              > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
              > lied as to how many times he traveled
              > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
              > Twit ever travelled to India!
              >
              > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
              > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
              > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
              > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
              >
              > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
              > conned people and that Klemp is still
              > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
              > But, should anyone be surprised when
              > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
              > gullible and loving people? Most people
              > want to believe and they want to believe
              > the best in whatever or whomever.
              > Everyone has to figure out what category
              > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
              > are manmade just as religions are.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > Hello Etznab and All,
              > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
              > Living ECK Master" are historical
              > transcriptions from private tapings
              > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
              >
              > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
              > made private tapings of his struggles
              > before and after his acceptance
              > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
              > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
              > who presented these tapes to Sri
              > Darwin.)"
              >
              > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
              > Twitchell tells his story of being
              > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
              > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
              > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
              > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
              > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
              > lie! Marman states that this was
              > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
              > as Paul would have us to believe.
              >
              > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
              > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
              > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
              > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
              > his "grand achievements" to get
              > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
              > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
              > (France) nor to India at age 15
              > in 1923!
              >
              http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
              >
              >
              >
              > Twit states:
              > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
              > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
              > six to seven months being taught
              > and learning the works of ECK...
              > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
              >
              > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
              > the "Mahanta" once during these
              > months!
              >
              > PT: "I had already been initiated
              > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
              > the same as everybody else, the
              > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
              >
              > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
              > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
              > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
              > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
              > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
              > 1955-65. They even have the same
              > last name! What's this mean? Well,
              > it means that Eckankar was/is based
              > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
              > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
              > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
              > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
              >
              > ***
              > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
              > gives Twitchell's birth year as
              > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
              > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
              > Page.
              >
              > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
              > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
              > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
              > how PT's birthday corresponds
              > to the Spiritual New Year and the
              > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
              > ***
              >
              > PT: "And then I got the Third and
              > Fourth, I went up through About
              > the Seventh at this particular time
              > (pg. 71)."
              >
              > ME: How does one go up to
              > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
              > Wouldn't a person remember
              > what initiation it was if it were
              > true? This is just more proof
              > that Twit was lying once again!
              >
              > PT: "... later [1951], but not
              > on this trip, I followed him up
              > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
              > and I got the finish (12th) of
              > my initiations (pg. 71)."
              >
              > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
              > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
              > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
              > Master! I know this because Twitchell
              > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
              > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
              > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
              > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
              > Jan. 1, 1969.
              >
              > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
              > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
              > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
              > right? I just can't figure out what it
              > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > etznab wrote:
              >
              > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
              > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
              >
              > There were other early books that didn't mention
              > it either, if I remember correctly.
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello Etznab and All,
              > I started another thread for this discussion.
              > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
              > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
              > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
              > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
              > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
              > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
              > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
              > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
              > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
              > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
              > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
              > delude its followers.
              >
              > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
              > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
              > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
              > all of those secret teachings and when he made
              > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
              > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
              > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
              > Four More Years that this information (if we
              > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
              > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
              > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
              > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
              > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
              > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
              > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
              > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
              > gap, 1965-1969?
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > Hello Etznab,
              > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
              > Twitchell claims to have received the
              > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
              > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
              > have trouble remembering the details
              > of their lies. That's why Twit made
              > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
              > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
              > created or started the "outer church"
              > on this date. This way he'd remember
              > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
              > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
              > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
              > history, on this date... his birthday!
              >
              > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
              > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
              > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
              > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
              > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
              > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
              > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
              > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
              > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
              > of God.
              >
              > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
              > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
              > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
              > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
              > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
              > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
              > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
              > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
              > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
              > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
              > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
              > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
              > a past track record of lying has been verified
              > by Klemp.
              >
              > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
              > but let's remember that Klemp states that
              > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
              > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
              > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
              > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
              > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
              > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
              > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
              >
              > If one has paid attention they will see that
              > Klemp has not only given new covers to
              > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
              > as well. Just look at the differences and
              > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
              > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
              > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
              > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
              > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
              > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
              > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
              >
              > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
              > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
              > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
              > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
              > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
              > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > etznab wrote:
              >
              > hat was interesting what you said about
              > "Mahanta".
              >
              > Just the other day I was trying to remember
              > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
              > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
              > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
              > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
              >
              > Was that the date?
              >
              > I assumed the writing about it would have to
              > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
              > for books after that date.
              >
              > The Flute of God came out in installments
              > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
              > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
              > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
              > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
              > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
              > to Darwin Gross, I think.
              >
              > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
              > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
              > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
              > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
              > various other forms of "Master".
              >
              > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
              > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
              >
              > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
              > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
              > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
              > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
              > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
              > The Flute of God).
              >
              > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
              > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
              > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
              > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
              > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
              >
              > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
              > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
              >
              > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
              > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
              > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
              > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
              > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
              >
              > I'd like to find out when that experience was
              > mentioned and what was said about it to get
              > an idea about what "history" might exist.
              >
              > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
              > I thought this query could be relevant to the
              > "Mahanta" topic.
              >
              > Etznab
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
              > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
              >
              > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
              >
              > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
              > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
              > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
              > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
              > true."
              >
              > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
              > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
              > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
              > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
              > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
              > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
              > "The Wisdom Notes."
              >
              > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
              > Twitchell stole even the name from another
              > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
              > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
              > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
              > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
              > form This was easy to accept, for most people
              > believe in some universal force whether called
              > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
              > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
              > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
              > of two words, he was able to transform himself
              > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
              > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
              > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
              > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
              > by making it part of "every word, thought and
              > action" of his followers."
              >
              > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
              > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
              > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
              > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
              > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
              > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
              > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
              >
              > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
              > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
              > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
              > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
              > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
              > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
              > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
              >
              > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
              > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
              > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
              > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
              > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
              > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
              > reproach and regain control as the highest of
              > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
              > title and definition.
              >
              > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
              > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
              > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
              > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
              > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
              > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
              > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
              > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
              > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
              > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
              > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
              > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
              > straight!
              >
              > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
              > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
              > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
              > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
              > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
              > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
              > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
              > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
              > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
              > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
              > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
              > 970th LEM, was from.
              >
              > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
              > wanted to present more details than what
              > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
              > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
              > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
              > up for him, as well as, creating his own
              > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
              > and distortions.
              >
              > There's one more thing that I wanted to
              > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
              > Christians believe that Jesus will come
              > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
              > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
              > Freedom via God-Realization in this
              > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
              >
              > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
              > will deny this, but they share the same
              > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
              > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
              > switch and made Adam into Adom and
              > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
              > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
              > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
              > where ECKists have made fun of the
              > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
              > would seem that they are laughing
              > at themselves and don't realize it!
              > How clueless! Then again, an inability
              > to do critical thinking and Not being
              > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
              > still ECKists.
              >
              > Prometheus
            • prometheus_973
              Twitchell s Last Mystic World Article July-August-September 1971 [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM, pages 251-254] Up until his last days Twitchell was still
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 6 11:48 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Twitchell's Last Mystic World Article
                July-August-September 1971
                [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
                pages 251-254]

                Up until his last days Twitchell was
                still conning people and rewriting
                his and ECKankar's history (in third
                person) in order to give validation
                to his outlandish claims/lies/dogma.
                And, for some reason people believed
                it! However, Why don't some of these
                same people who bought into it then,
                don't now? Where's Klemp's Virgin
                Birth that would qualify him as a
                "Mahanta?" Klemp was born the
                second child. Is Twitchell lying about
                these details?


                "During the early part of the seventeenth
                century, four ECK spiritual masters
                who serve in the spiritual hierarchy,
                met in the ancient sacred city of Agam
                Des in the Himalayan Mountains.

                They were:

                Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam, the
                great deity of the fifth world,
                commonly called the Soul Plane;

                Rebazar Tarzs, emissary for the
                ECK in the physical universe today;

                Gopal Das, spiritual master at the
                Golden Wisdom Temple on the Astral
                Plane and

                Yaubl Sacabi, spiritual head of
                the ancient city of Agam Des."

                ME: BTW- Ramaj is actually Rama.
                And, in the Spiritual Notebook, 10th
                printing, Twitchell calls him Ramaji
                on page 196.

                PT: "They met to discuss the birth
                of the coming AVATAR for the twentieth
                century [himself, Paul Twitchell], Peddar
                Zaskq. Born in the Caucasian mountains
                during the Seventeenth Century, he lived
                and was trained to the heights of spiritual
                perfection."

                ME: And yet, even when he was reborn
                as Paul Twitchell he had no knowledge
                of the "Mahanta" Consciousness nor
                for 18 years After his 12th Initiation,
                by Rebazar (1951), to ECK Master status!

                PT: "Given several years in the Art
                of Silence and Darkness he gained
                Enlightenment in Preparation for his
                return to the Twentieth Century. When
                the time came for his demise, he passed
                away still looking the same youthful
                appearance yet beyond the normal
                age of man."

                ME: Was Peddar's study in the "Art
                of Darkness" preparation for becoming
                a liar and deceiver and a practitioner
                of the Black Arts as a Black Magician?
                It seems this was a Freudian slip on
                PT's part.

                PT: "He was prepared for entering
                into the world again to take up his
                mission. The four great ECK Masters
                met once more, but this time at the
                Sakipura Monastery in the vast
                mountains of the northern Himalayas.

                This time the ancient prediction that
                a New World Avatar would be born
                on a great body of water, near the
                shores where horses grazed was
                to become true. This time Peddar
                Zaskq was born on a Mississippi
                river packet enroute to New Orleans.

                The Miraculous Birth took place
                just below the city of Natchez,
                Mississippi near a stock farm.
                At the time of his birth, a great
                earthquake shook the Mississippi
                valley, forming a vast body of
                lakes in western Tennessee.

                There appeared a BLUE CARNATION
                in a vase on a night table by the
                mother's bed."

                ME: This Blue Carnation symbol
                of the Mahanta Consciousness
                was created by Twitchell after-the-
                fact with 20/20 hindsight. This is
                another rewrite by Twitchell. If he
                did have the "Mahanta Consciousness"
                then why didn't he mention it prior
                to 1969? This 1971 pub is to rectify
                that mistake and act as a cover-up.

                PT: "The work of the Hierarchy
                was completed except for the training
                of Peddar Zaskq. It was immediately
                arranged for him to be given a home
                in which to be raised.

                His Foster Parents raised him in a
                small souther river town [Paducah,
                Kentucky]. He adopted their name
                and became known as Paul Twitchell
                in the Twentieth Century."

                ME: Isn't this a different story from
                what Klemp has mentioned? Klemp
                and Marman, both, have suggested
                that Paul's father had an affair and
                that he was allowed to take Paul and
                raise him. Thus, the other children
                were Paul's half-brothers and sisters
                and his mother was his step-mother.
                Paul told this lie in order to have a
                virgin birth like Jesus and other
                Avatars, and to establish the "Blue
                Carnation" of the Mahanta connection.
                This is, also, why Darwin stated that
                Paul was the only Mahanta for the
                next thousand years. DG didn't have
                a "virgin birth" and neither did Klemp!

                PT: "He [Paul Twitchell aka Peddar
                Zaskq] looked and acted and was
                raised accordingly like any American
                child, except for his enormous knowledge
                and ability to do Soul Travel."

                ME: Once again, Twit is selling himself.
                Snake oil anyone? It's "blue" too!

                PT: "None knew much about him for
                he kept to himself. His companion in
                these years was his Stepsister who
                gave him much of his knowledge on
                Soul Travel. She acted as the instrument
                through which the divine power flowed
                to open his consciousness to God
                again, and acted as his guide until
                ECK Masters were able to take over."

                ME: So, I wonder what initiation level
                Paul's stepsister (Kay-Dee) was? That's
                probably another story (lie). But, Wow!
                Paul was really unloading a pile of B.S.
                wasn't he! It's no wonder Klemp had Peter
                Skelsky round up and destroy all of these
                copies of "Difficulties of Becoming the
                Living ECK Master." Does Marman believe
                that the true, one and only, Mahanta
                has to be born of a Virgin like Twitchell
                states? Or, does Marman think Paul was
                lying about his Virgin Birth like he did
                with "Paris."

                PT: "The rest of his story is told in
                fragments of his first visit to Paris
                to be with his stepsister, who was
                in training to be an artist. It was here
                that he [Paul/Peddar] first met Sudar
                [Kirpal] Singh, an ECK Master, and
                followed him to India with his stepsister
                to study ECK[ankar].

                Later as a young man, he returned
                to India and set out to find Rebazar
                Tarzs, the ancient Tibetan ECK Master,
                near Darjeeling. It was here that the
                contact was made with the great ECK
                emissary and his training taken over
                to prepare him for world leadership
                in spiritual affairs. July-August-September
                1971"

                Prometheus


                prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello All,
                > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                >
                > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                >
                > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                >
                > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                > eckankar.org
                >
                > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                > lied as to how many times he traveled
                > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                > Twit ever travelled to India!
                >
                > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                >
                > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                > conned people and that Klemp is still
                > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                > But, should anyone be surprised when
                > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                > gullible and loving people? Most people
                > want to believe and they want to believe
                > the best in whatever or whomever.
                > Everyone has to figure out what category
                > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                > are manmade just as religions are.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > Hello Etznab and All,
                > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                > Living ECK Master" are historical
                > transcriptions from private tapings
                > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                >
                > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                > made private tapings of his struggles
                > before and after his acceptance
                > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                > who presented these tapes to Sri
                > Darwin.)"
                >
                > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                > Twitchell tells his story of being
                > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                > lie! Marman states that this was
                > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                > as Paul would have us to believe.
                >
                > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                > his "grand achievements" to get
                > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                > (France) nor to India at age 15
                > in 1923!
                >
                http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                >
                >
                >
                > Twit states:
                > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                > six to seven months being taught
                > and learning the works of ECK...
                > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                >
                > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                > the "Mahanta" once during these
                > months!
                >
                > PT: "I had already been initiated
                > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                > the same as everybody else, the
                > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                >
                > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                > 1955-65. They even have the same
                > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                >
                > ***
                > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                > Page.
                >
                > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                > how PT's birthday corresponds
                > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                > ***
                >
                > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                > Fourth, I went up through About
                > the Seventh at this particular time
                > (pg. 71)."
                >
                > ME: How does one go up to
                > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                > Wouldn't a person remember
                > what initiation it was if it were
                > true? This is just more proof
                > that Twit was lying once again!
                >
                > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                > on this trip, I followed him up
                > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                > and I got the finish (12th) of
                > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                >
                > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                > Jan. 1, 1969.
                >
                > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                > right? I just can't figure out what it
                > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > etznab wrote:
                >
                > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                >
                > There were other early books that didn't mention
                > it either, if I remember correctly.
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello Etznab and All,
                > I started another thread for this discussion.
                > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                > delude its followers.
                >
                > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                > Four More Years that this information (if we
                > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                > gap, 1965-1969?
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > Hello Etznab,
                > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                > Twitchell claims to have received the
                > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                > have trouble remembering the details
                > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                > created or started the "outer church"
                > on this date. This way he'd remember
                > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                > history, on this date... his birthday!
                >
                > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                > of God.
                >
                > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                > a past track record of lying has been verified
                > by Klemp.
                >
                > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                >
                > If one has paid attention they will see that
                > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                > as well. Just look at the differences and
                > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                >
                > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > etznab wrote:
                >
                > hat was interesting what you said about
                > "Mahanta".
                >
                > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                >
                > Was that the date?
                >
                > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                > for books after that date.
                >
                > The Flute of God came out in installments
                > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                >
                > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                > various other forms of "Master".
                >
                > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                >
                > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                > The Flute of God).
                >
                > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                >
                > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                >
                > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                >
                > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                >
                > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                > "Mahanta" topic.
                >
                > Etznab
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello All,
                > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                >
                > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                >
                > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                > true."
                >
                > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                > "The Wisdom Notes."
                >
                > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                > believe in some universal force whether called
                > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                > action" of his followers."
                >
                > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                >
                > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                >
                > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                > title and definition.
                >
                > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                > straight!
                >
                > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                > 970th LEM, was from.
                >
                > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                > wanted to present more details than what
                > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                > and distortions.
                >
                > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                >
                > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                > will deny this, but they share the same
                > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                > where ECKists have made fun of the
                > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                > would seem that they are laughing
                > at themselves and don't realize it!
                > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                > to do critical thinking and Not being
                > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                > still ECKists.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Here s more to verify the Virgin Birth requirement for the Mahanta. This can be found in the Holy Books of ECKankar, The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Books One & Two
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 7 1:34 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Here's more to verify the "Virgin
                  Birth" requirement for the Mahanta.
                  This can be found in the Holy Books
                  of ECKankar, "The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
                  Books One & Two" (copyright 2000)
                  pages 111-112. Or, check the index
                  of the Shariyat One under "Mahanta,
                  birth of."

                  BTW- The following information is
                  found in Book One of the Shariyat.

                  The Foreword, on page x, states:

                  "Book One is the first section of these
                  works, which was dictated by FUBBI
                  QUANTZ, the great ECK Master who
                  serves at the Katsupari Monastery
                  in Northern Tibet.

                  ME: Remember, too, Klemp was the
                  "SECOND" Child Born to his mother.

                  "The Mahanta is Always born near
                  or on a large body of water. His
                  Birth is Always Mysterious, and
                  men of ordinary birth Do Not Know
                  his Origin. NOR does any man know
                  who his sires might be, their true
                  names, or their true origin."

                  ME: Since we know Klemp's origins
                  (the Fremont, WI. area) and who his
                  parents were (he spoke of them in
                  his books and these were his REAL
                  parents) we can see that, already,
                  Klemp Doesn't fulfill the requirements
                  listed above.

                  "The ECK enters into the womb
                  of a VIRGIN, the Queen of Heaven,
                  who has submitted to the True Spirit
                  of the universe. The Consciousness
                  of the Mahanta State is planted as
                  the seed and carefully nurtured in
                  the womb. When the embodiment
                  of flesh is brought into this world,
                  a man-child is born."

                  As I pointed out, Klemp had an
                  older brother, Dwayne, therefore
                  HK could Not have had a "Virgin
                  Birth" and according to Fubbi, and
                  this "Holy" Shariyat, Klemp Does
                  Not meet this criteria either.

                  On the other hand, Klemp had
                  pointed out that Twitchell had
                  lied in 1935, at the age of 27,
                  to get into Who's Who. It could
                  be that Twitchell was still lying,
                  here, in 1970 when this Shariyat
                  One was Copyrighted. However,
                  this would simply point out that
                  everything (the ECK Masters, the
                  Mahanta, and the whole foundation
                  of ECKankar is built upon is lies!

                  So, ECKists either have to turn a
                  Blind-Eye to this, as they have in
                  the past, or they have to ask the
                  hard questions:

                  1) Is Twitchell, or Fubbi, lying about
                  the "Virgin Birth" Mahanta Requirements?
                  If Paul is lying then he's, also, lying
                  about Fubbi's existence!

                  OR

                  2) If Twitchell, or Fubbi, were telling
                  the Truth about the Mahanta needing
                  to be Born by a Virgin then Klemp
                  is lying about being the Mahanta!

                  Really, is Eckankar's Holy Book
                  wrong? Or, did "Fubbi" distort the
                  truth? Is Fubbi another lie of Paul's?
                  What else is a distortion? Klemp
                  can't claim that Fubbi was using
                  "artistic license" or can he? Klemp
                  seems to exaggerate and twist facts
                  as much as, or more, than Twitchell.

                  BTW-Catch-22 is double-speak
                  and means that HK can change the
                  rules, or the interpretation of the
                  rules anytime he wants. His "Con"
                  is higher than yours, thus, you wouldn't
                  understand even he he tried to explain
                  it because he has to "lower" it by
                  using 4th Mental Plane thoughts
                  and words. It's a blank check.

                  Yes, Klemp Did have the opportunity
                  to edit this "Virgin Birth" Mahanta
                  requirement out in 2000, but didn't!
                  Apparently, Klemp doesn't have the
                  need to do so. After all, ECKists will
                  believe anything he tells them.

                  Klemp did come up with the "Mahanta-
                  in-Training" excuse to explain that
                  Darwin (972th LEM) was Not a true
                  or "Full" (14th) Mahanta and, therefore,
                  it was okay for him (a 12th) and his
                  EK "Board" to depose/dispose of him.

                  However, Klemp can't explain away
                  the "Virgin Birth" scripture requirement.
                  Unless, Klemp really isn't a 14th "Full"
                  Mahanta and is still "in-training" for
                  this position for another future lifetime
                  just as Peddar Zaskq, supposedly, had
                  to do. Why has Klemp lied about being
                  a "Full" 14th Mahanta? Vanity!

                  Perhaps Klemp, too, has had the Rod
                  of ECK Power "BURN" him for not letting
                  go years earlier when he should have.
                  IMO (from an EK standpoint)-HK fell
                  from Grace circa 1990 and is, now, just
                  acting out the role with the support of
                  Joan and other cohorts at the ESC.

                  The truth is that they (Twitchell, Gross,
                  and Klemp) have all acted "AS IF" their
                  religious LEM/Mahanta roles were
                  "Spiritual." It wasn't/isn't! Eckankar is
                  just another religious con that attracts
                  those with a "New Age" belief system.
                  Even New Age people, who have turned
                  their backs on the large mass religions,
                  need something.Therefore, Eckankar
                  is an alternative for those with alternative
                  beliefs. People are social animals and
                  have a strong need to belong to some
                  group.

                  However, a religious "group consciousness,"
                  shaped by the leader, impedes one's
                  individual search and progress by lowering
                  it through conformity! It's rather ironic
                  that ECKists, and other New Agers, tend
                  to view themselves as "Non-Conformists."
                  Yet, ECKists, end up following rules, laws,
                  Zoas, Guidelines, and Scripture and anything
                  that Klemp tells them. Where is the Spiritual
                  Freedom there, or in needing to pay an
                  annual "membership" in order to receive
                  and maintain one's "spiritual" advancement
                  (initiations)? See! It all a con! But what choice
                  do ECKists have when they are too weak-
                  minded via fear tactics and brain-washing?

                  However, once they do leave Eckankar
                  they will feel a burden lifted from their
                  shoulders. The stress will leave! They
                  will now have increased moments of
                  "Contentment." And, a new Clarity of
                  mind and of Soul will be experienced
                  and revealed.

                  Prometheus


                  ***
                  Twitchell's Last Mystic World Article
                  July-August-September 1971
                  [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
                  pages 251-254]

                  Up until his last days Twitchell was
                  still conning people and rewriting
                  his and ECKankar's history (in third
                  person) in order to give validation
                  to his outlandish claims/lies/dogma.
                  And, for some reason people believed
                  it! However, Why don't some of these
                  same people who bought into it then,
                  don't now? Where's Klemp's Virgin
                  Birth that would qualify him as a
                  "Mahanta?" Klemp was born the
                  second child. Is Twitchell lying about
                  these details?


                  "During the early part of the seventeenth
                  century, four ECK spiritual masters
                  who serve in the spiritual hierarchy,
                  met in the ancient sacred city of Agam
                  Des in the Himalayan Mountains.

                  They were:

                  Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam, the
                  great deity of the fifth world,
                  commonly called the Soul Plane;

                  Rebazar Tarzs, emissary for the
                  ECK in the physical universe today;

                  Gopal Das, spiritual master at the
                  Golden Wisdom Temple on the Astral
                  Plane and

                  Yaubl Sacabi, spiritual head of
                  the ancient city of Agam Des."

                  ME: BTW- Ramaj is actually Rama.
                  And, in the Spiritual Notebook, 10th
                  printing, Twitchell calls him Ramaji
                  on page 196.

                  PT: "They met to discuss the birth
                  of the coming AVATAR for the twentieth
                  century [himself, Paul Twitchell], Peddar
                  Zaskq. Born in the Caucasian mountains
                  during the Seventeenth Century, he lived
                  and was trained to the heights of spiritual
                  perfection."

                  ME: And yet, even when he was reborn
                  as Paul Twitchell he had no knowledge
                  of the "Mahanta" Consciousness nor
                  for 18 years After his 12th Initiation,
                  by Rebazar (1951), to ECK Master status!

                  PT: "Given several years in the Art
                  of Silence and Darkness he gained
                  Enlightenment in Preparation for his
                  return to the Twentieth Century. When
                  the time came for his demise, he passed
                  away still looking the same youthful
                  appearance yet beyond the normal
                  age of man."

                  ME: Was Peddar's study in the "Art
                  of Darkness" preparation for becoming
                  a liar and deceiver and a practitioner
                  of the Black Arts as a Black Magician?
                  It seems this was a Freudian slip on
                  PT's part.

                  PT: "He was prepared for entering
                  into the world again to take up his
                  mission. The four great ECK Masters
                  met once more, but this time at the
                  Sakipura Monastery in the vast
                  mountains of the northern Himalayas.

                  This time the ancient prediction that
                  a New World Avatar would be born
                  on a great body of water, near the
                  shores where horses grazed was
                  to become true. This time Peddar
                  Zaskq was born on a Mississippi
                  river packet enroute to New Orleans.

                  The Miraculous Birth took place
                  just below the city of Natchez,
                  Mississippi near a stock farm.
                  At the time of his birth, a great
                  earthquake shook the Mississippi
                  valley, forming a vast body of
                  lakes in western Tennessee.

                  There appeared a BLUE CARNATION
                  in a vase on a night table by the
                  mother's bed."

                  ME: This Blue Carnation symbol
                  of the Mahanta Consciousness
                  was created by Twitchell after-the-
                  fact with 20/20 hindsight. This is
                  another rewrite by Twitchell. If he
                  did have the "Mahanta Consciousness"
                  then why didn't he mention it prior
                  to 1969? This 1971 pub is to rectify
                  that mistake and act as a cover-up.

                  PT: "The work of the Hierarchy
                  was completed except for the training
                  of Peddar Zaskq. It was immediately
                  arranged for him to be given a home
                  in which to be raised.

                  His Foster Parents raised him in a
                  small souther river town [Paducah,
                  Kentucky]. He adopted their name
                  and became known as Paul Twitchell
                  in the Twentieth Century."

                  ME: Isn't this a different story from
                  what Klemp has mentioned? Klemp
                  and Marman, both, have suggested
                  that Paul's father had an affair and
                  that he was allowed to take Paul and
                  raise him. Thus, the other children
                  were Paul's half-brothers and sisters
                  and his mother was his step-mother.
                  Paul told this lie in order to have a
                  virgin birth like Jesus and other
                  Avatars, and to establish the "Blue
                  Carnation" of the Mahanta connection.
                  This is, also, why Darwin stated that
                  Paul was the only Mahanta for the
                  next thousand years. DG didn't have
                  a "virgin birth" and neither did Klemp!

                  PT: "He [Paul Twitchell aka Peddar
                  Zaskq] looked and acted and was
                  raised accordingly like any American
                  child, except for his enormous knowledge
                  and ability to do Soul Travel."

                  ME: Once again, Twit is selling himself.
                  Snake oil anyone? It's "blue" too!

                  PT: "None knew much about him for
                  he kept to himself. His companion in
                  these years was his Stepsister who
                  gave him much of his knowledge on
                  Soul Travel. She acted as the instrument
                  through which the divine power flowed
                  to open his consciousness to God
                  again, and acted as his guide until
                  ECK Masters were able to take over."

                  ME: So, I wonder what initiation level
                  Paul's stepsister (Kay-Dee) was? That's
                  probably another story (lie). But, Wow!
                  Paul was really unloading a pile of B.S.
                  wasn't he! It's no wonder Klemp had Peter
                  Skelsky round up and destroy all of these
                  copies of "Difficulties of Becoming the
                  Living ECK Master." Does Marman believe
                  that the true, one and only, Mahanta
                  has to be born of a Virgin like Twitchell
                  states? Or, does Marman think Paul was
                  lying about his Virgin Birth like he did
                  with "Paris."

                  PT: "The rest of his story is told in
                  fragments of his first visit to Paris
                  to be with his stepsister, who was
                  in training to be an artist. It was here
                  that he [Paul/Peddar] first met Sudar
                  [Kirpal] Singh, an ECK Master, and
                  followed him to India with his stepsister
                  to study ECK[ankar].

                  Later as a young man, he returned
                  to India and set out to find Rebazar
                  Tarzs, the ancient Tibetan ECK Master,
                  near Darjeeling. It was here that the
                  contact was made with the great ECK
                  emissary and his training taken over
                  to prepare him for world leadership
                  in spiritual affairs. July-August-September
                  1971"

                  Prometheus


                  prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello All,
                  > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies
                  from Difficulties Of Becoming the LEM:
                  >
                  > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                  > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                  > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                  > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                  > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                  > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                  >
                  > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                  > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                  > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                  > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                  >
                  > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                  > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                  > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                  > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                  > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                  > eckankar.org
                  >
                  > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                  > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                  > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                  > lied as to how many times he traveled
                  > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                  > Twit ever travelled to India!
                  >
                  > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                  > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                  > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                  > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                  >
                  > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                  > conned people and that Klemp is still
                  > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                  > But, should anyone be surprised when
                  > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                  > gullible and loving people? Most people
                  > want to believe and they want to believe
                  > the best in whatever or whomever.
                  > Everyone has to figure out what category
                  > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                  > are manmade just as religions are.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:

                  > Hello Etznab and All,
                  > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                  > Living ECK Master" are Historical
                  > Transcriptions from Private Tapings
                  > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                  >
                  > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                  > made private tapings of his struggles
                  > before and after his acceptance
                  > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                  > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                  > who presented these tapes to Sri
                  > Darwin.)"
                  >
                  > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                  > Twitchell tells his story of being
                  > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                  > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                  > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                  > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                  > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                  > lie! Marman states that this was
                  > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                  > as Paul would have us to believe.
                  >
                  > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                  > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                  > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                  > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                  > his "grand achievements" to get
                  > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                  > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                  > (France) nor to India at age 15
                  > in 1923!
                  >
                  http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Twit states:
                  > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                  > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                  > six to seven months being taught
                  > and learning the works of ECK...
                  > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                  >
                  > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                  > the "Mahanta" once during these
                  > months!
                  >
                  > PT: "I had already been initiated
                  > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                  > the same as everybody else, the
                  > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                  >
                  > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                  > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                  > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                  > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                  > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                  > 1955-65. They even have the same
                  > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                  > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                  > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                  > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                  > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                  > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                  >
                  > ***
                  > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                  > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                  > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                  > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                  > Page.
                  >
                  > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                  > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                  > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                  > how PT's birthday corresponds
                  > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                  > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                  > ***
                  >
                  > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                  > Fourth, I went up through About
                  > the Seventh at this particular time
                  > (pg. 71)."
                  >
                  > ME: How does one go up to
                  > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                  > Wouldn't a person remember
                  > what initiation it was if it were
                  > true? This is just more proof
                  > that Twit was lying once again!
                  >
                  > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                  > on this trip, I followed him up
                  > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                  > and I got the finish (12th) of
                  > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                  >
                  > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                  > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                  > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                  > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                  > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                  > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                  > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                  > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                  > Jan. 1, 1969.
                  >
                  > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                  > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                  > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                  > right? I just can't figure out what it
                  > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  > etznab wrote:
                  >
                  > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                  > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                  >
                  > There were other early books that didn't mention
                  > it either, if I remember correctly.
                  >
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Etznab and All,
                  > I started another thread for this discussion.
                  > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                  > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                  > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                  > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                  > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                  > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                  > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                  > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                  > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                  > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                  > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                  > delude its followers.
                  >
                  > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                  > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                  > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                  > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                  > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                  > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                  > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                  > Four More Years that this information (if we
                  > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                  > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                  > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                  > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                  > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                  > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                  > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                  > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                  > gap, 1965-1969?
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  > Hello Etznab,
                  > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                  > Twitchell claims to have received the
                  > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                  > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                  > have trouble remembering the details
                  > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                  > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                  > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                  > created or started the "outer church"
                  > on this date. This way he'd remember
                  > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                  > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                  > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                  > history, on this date... his birthday!
                  >
                  > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                  > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                  > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                  > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                  > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                  > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                  > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                  > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                  > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                  > of God.
                  >
                  > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                  > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                  > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                  > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                  > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                  > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                  > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                  > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                  > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                  > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                  > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                  > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                  > a past track record of lying has been verified
                  > by Klemp.
                  >
                  > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                  > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                  > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                  > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                  > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                  > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                  > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                  > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                  > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                  >
                  > If one has paid attention they will see that
                  > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                  > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                  > as well. Just look at the differences and
                  > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                  > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                  > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                  > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                  > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                  > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                  > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                  >
                  > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                  > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                  > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                  > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                  > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                  > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  > etznab wrote:
                  >
                  > hat was interesting what you said about
                  > "Mahanta".
                  >
                  > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                  > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                  > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                  > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                  > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                  >
                  > Was that the date?
                  >
                  > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                  > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                  > for books after that date.
                  >
                  > The Flute of God came out in installments
                  > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                  > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                  > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                  > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                  > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                  > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                  >
                  > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                  > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                  > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                  > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                  > various other forms of "Master".
                  >
                  > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                  > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                  >
                  > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                  > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                  > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                  > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                  > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                  > The Flute of God).
                  >
                  > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                  > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                  > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                  > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                  > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                  >
                  > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                  > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                  >
                  > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                  > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                  > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                  > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                  > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                  >
                  > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                  > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                  > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                  >
                  > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                  > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                  > "Mahanta" topic.
                  >
                  > Etznab
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello All,
                  > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                  > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                  >
                  > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                  >
                  > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                  > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                  > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                  > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                  > true."
                  >
                  > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                  > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                  > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                  > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                  > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                  > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                  > "The Wisdom Notes."
                  >
                  > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                  > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                  > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                  > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                  > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                  > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                  > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                  > believe in some universal force whether called
                  > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                  > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                  > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                  > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                  > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                  > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                  > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                  > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                  > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                  > action" of his followers."
                  >
                  > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                  > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                  > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                  > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                  > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                  > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                  > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                  >
                  > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                  > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                  > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                  > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                  > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                  > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                  > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                  >
                  > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                  > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                  > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                  > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                  > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                  > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                  > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                  > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                  > title and definition.
                  >
                  > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                  > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                  > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                  > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                  > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                  > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                  > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                  > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                  > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                  > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                  > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                  > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                  > straight!
                  >
                  > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                  > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                  > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                  > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                  > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                  > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                  > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                  > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                  > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                  > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                  > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                  > 970th LEM, was from.
                  >
                  > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                  > wanted to present more details than what
                  > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                  > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                  > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                  > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                  > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                  > and distortions.
                  >
                  > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                  > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                  > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                  > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                  > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                  > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                  > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                  >
                  > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                  > will deny this, but they share the same
                  > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                  > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                  > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                  > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                  > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                  > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                  > where ECKists have made fun of the
                  > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                  > would seem that they are laughing
                  > at themselves and don't realize it!
                  > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                  > to do critical thinking and Not being
                  > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                  > still ECKists.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                • prometheus_973
                  Twitchell s manuscript was a work in progress with rewrites and tweaking during his time (1955-65) spent with his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh. Klemp even
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 7 3:40 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Twitchell's manuscript was a work
                    in progress with rewrites and tweaking
                    during his time (1955-65) spent with
                    his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh.

                    Klemp even mentions Kirpal on
                    Eckankar.org and his involvement
                    with The Tiger's Fang manuscript
                    not long before it was published.
                    Read the two sections titled "Struggle
                    for Mastership" and "Beginnings
                    of Eckankar" listed below.

                    http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

                    Interesting too that Klemp mentions
                    Kirpal Singh by name 15 times during
                    this "Behind the Scenes with Paul Twitchell"
                    while only mentioning former 970th LEM
                    Sudar Singh's name 6 times! Count and see!

                    Here, in Chapter 8, Twitchell has Sugmad
                    speaking to him and Kirpal (Rebazar). This
                    is just one of the problems that Kirpal had
                    with this manuscript. Anyway, here are some
                    quotes:

                    Sugmad:

                    "You are also God! You are myself! I!

                    1) "My First Principle is that this true cosmos IS!

                    2) "My Second Principle is that there is no
                    God but me, I; not me as you know, but
                    that which is within you, the Self. Therefore
                    all is God, include the lowest of life.

                    3) "My Third Principle is that to have divinity,
                    you must dwell in the center of my Light
                    and Sound; and since Light is God, and God
                    is Light then IT is everywhere, and has No
                    Focus except in each Soul. Thus I must dwell
                    in the Light within Me!

                    4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth is
                    greater than the Lie, and truth is never greater
                    than No truth, for the latter is the shining ideal
                    which God holds before the Soul in his true kingdom!

                    ***
                    It seems to me that Paul, at first, was wanting
                    to share some of his views and to become a
                    real writer with a book. Gail talked him into
                    making it into a religion when interest picked
                    up at his book promotions and people started
                    to look to Twit as their modern day saviour/prophet!
                    Klemp merely positioned himself at the ESC
                    and inherited the LEM title as Darwin's writer.

                    Prometheus



                    Hello Etznab and All,
                    I started another thread for this discussion.
                    Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                    1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                    until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                    up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                    that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                    Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                    and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                    Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                    one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                    editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                    fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                    delude its followers.

                    Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                    Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                    of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                    all of those secret teachings and when he made
                    PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                    mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                    one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                    Four More Years that this information (if we
                    believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                    Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                    the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                    it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                    the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                    the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                    are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                    some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                    gap, 1965-1969?

                    Prometheus


                    Hello Etznab,
                    It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                    Twitchell claims to have received the
                    Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                    he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                    have trouble remembering the details
                    of their lies. That's why Twit made
                    the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                    his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                    created or started the "outer church"
                    on this date. This way he'd remember
                    it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                    is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                    every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                    history, on this date... his birthday!

                    PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                    (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                    REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                    these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                    The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                    didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                    due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                    and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                    given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                    of God.

                    As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                    This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                    1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                    name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                    Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                    did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                    publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                    to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                    as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                    even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                    in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                    get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                    a past track record of lying has been verified
                    by Klemp.

                    The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                    but let's remember that Klemp states that
                    Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                    Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                    mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                    that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                    there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                    in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                    "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

                    If one has paid attention they will see that
                    Klemp has not only given new covers to
                    Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                    as well. Just look at the differences and
                    changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                    Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                    to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                    current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                    sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                    works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                    the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

                    Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                    ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                    included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                    these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                    How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                    of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

                    Prometheus




                    etznab wrote:

                    hat was interesting what you said about
                    "Mahanta".

                    Just the other day I was trying to remember
                    exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                    experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                    and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                    Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

                    Was that the date?

                    I assumed the writing about it would have to
                    be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                    for books after that date.

                    The Flute of God came out in installments
                    in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                    to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                    have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                    out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                    1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                    to Darwin Gross, I think.

                    1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                    (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                    took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                    mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                    various other forms of "Master".

                    All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                    In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

                    It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                    "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                    By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                    The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                    I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                    The Flute of God).

                    The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                    from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                    he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                    one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                    "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

                    The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                    "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

                    OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                    does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                    of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                    anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                    it at a seminar and it's on tape?

                    I'd like to find out when that experience was
                    mentioned and what was said about it to get
                    an idea about what "history" might exist.

                    Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                    I thought this query could be relevant to the
                    "Mahanta" topic.

                    Etznab

                    prometheus wrote:

                    Hello All,
                    I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                    Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

                    Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

                    In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                    condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                    delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                    1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                    true."

                    ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                    Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                    In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                    January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                    see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                    the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                    "The Wisdom Notes."

                    Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                    Twitchell stole even the name from another
                    spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                    in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                    was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                    of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                    form This was easy to accept, for most people
                    believe in some universal force whether called
                    "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                    associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                    and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                    of two words, he was able to transform himself
                    into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                    meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                    "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                    and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                    by making it part of "every word, thought and
                    action" of his followers."

                    ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                    be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                    in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                    Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                    Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                    in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                    create this term/position for himself until 1969.

                    BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                    by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                    Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                    used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                    (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                    that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                    was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

                    The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                    on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                    Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                    This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                    to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                    up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                    reproach and regain control as the highest of
                    all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                    title and definition.

                    Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                    for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                    on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                    12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                    states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                    Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                    need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                    on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                    for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                    of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                    is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                    Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                    straight!

                    Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                    Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                    by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                    Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                    page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                    was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                    interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                    had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                    talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                    Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                    that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                    970th LEM, was from.

                    I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                    wanted to present more details than what
                    were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                    for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                    Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                    up for him, as well as, creating his own
                    newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                    and distortions.

                    There's one more thing that I wanted to
                    mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                    Christians believe that Jesus will come
                    again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                    believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                    Freedom via God-Realization in this
                    lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

                    Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                    will deny this, but they share the same
                    Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                    Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                    switch and made Adam into Adom and
                    Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                    for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                    Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                    where ECKists have made fun of the
                    Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                    would seem that they are laughing
                    at themselves and don't realize it!
                    How clueless! Then again, an inability
                    to do critical thinking and Not being
                    able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                    still ECKists.

                    Prometheus
                  • prometheus_973
                    Let s take another look at The Tiger s Fang which Eckankar continues to sell. In Chapter 8 the Four Principles of Sugmad were given to Paul and Rebazar
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 9 11:21 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Let's take another look at "The
                      Tiger's Fang" which Eckankar
                      continues to sell.

                      In Chapter 8 the Four Principles
                      of Sugmad were given to Paul
                      and Rebazar (Kirpal Singh) by
                      Sugmad himself. Here's number Four:

                      4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth
                      is greater than the Lie,

                      and truth is Never Greater than No truth,

                      for the latter [no truth, the lie] is the
                      shining ideal which God holds before
                      the Soul in his true kingdom!"

                      ME: So, Twit/Suggie is saying that
                      "the Lie" (his no truth) is greater than
                      the truth.

                      And, "the Lie" (no truth) is greater than truth!

                      However, he's saying that the latter (no truth)
                      is the "shining ideal" - the Perfect Lie!

                      Maybe the perfect lie is the shining ideal
                      for a conman! Is this a Freudian slip by
                      Twitchell? After all, Twitchell lied about
                      everything in order to create Eckankar.

                      When one looks at Twit's track record
                      you can see that he's been lying, plagiarizing,
                      and distorting the truth by "exaggerating,"
                      and "twisting facts" for most of his life.
                      At age 27 (1935) he was lying on a grand
                      scale to get into Who's Who in Kentucky,
                      and Klemp points that out! Paul lied about
                      his age in order to attract Gail who was
                      33 years younger, thus, everything PT wrote
                      about age not mattering, Soul is ageless,
                      or about one's right to privacy and that the
                      government didn't need to know this info
                      (birth records) were used to cover-up and
                      distract people.

                      I wonder what Gail and Patti thought
                      about Paul's "Virgin Birth" and "Mahanta"
                      story? They both went along with it didn't
                      they! As I pointed out, just look in the
                      index of the Shariyat One for, "Mahanta,
                      birth of."

                      Plus, let's not forget that trip to "Paris"
                      where Paul (at age 15) stayed with his
                      "step-sister" Kay-Dee and then met
                      Sudar Singh and traveled to India with
                      him where they, supposedly, stayed for
                      one year! Paul claimed to have gotten
                      the Second Initiation from Sudar while
                      there.

                      Marman has pointed out that this was
                      Paris, Kentucky and Not Paris, France.
                      Therefore, Paul and Kay-Dee could not
                      have met Sudar Singh while there nor
                      traveled to India. Thus, Paul never got
                      the Second Initiation from Sudar as
                      he claimed!

                      Therefore, later, Sudar couldn't have
                      handed Paul off to Rebazar where PT,
                      supposedly, received his 3rd-7th
                      initiations! Then, on his "second trip,"
                      Paul claims to have received the 8th-
                      12th from Rebazar. None of it happened
                      since Sudar and Rebazar were fictitious
                      characters... like in a novel! This is
                      just one more reason why the "Difficulties
                      of Becoming the LEM" (1971 tape
                      transcriptions) was bought up and
                      destroyed.

                      So, I wonder why Marman hasn't
                      pieced the puzzel together by now,
                      or has he? Is Marman covering-up
                      for Klemp? After all, if Twitchell never
                      met Sudar in "Paris, France" then he
                      didn't travel with him to India and
                      didn't get the 2nd Initiation. Thus,
                      PT didn't get handed over to Rebazar
                      and never received the 12th Initiation
                      and never became the 971st LEM/Mahanta!

                      Therefore, Darwin's Initiations came
                      from a poser, an impostor, with No
                      Initiations coming from a "lineage
                      of ECK Masters!" Thus, Klemp is a
                      poser too! Those initiations Darwin
                      gave Klemp are invalid. Rebazar does
                      Not exist except in people's imaginations.
                      It's all fabricated, it's a lie and Klemp,
                      with Marman's help, is covering it up
                      too!

                      However, most religions are built
                      upon lies and myth (distortions of
                      fact and unscientific explanations
                      of nature). Religions rely upon giving
                      "spiritual answers" to questions about
                      creation and life and death and the
                      beyond. They give hope of another
                      life after death, but there's a catch!

                      One has to believe in their stories
                      and follow their rules, laws, and
                      guidelines and one has to bow down
                      to the (RESA) Hierarchy. One has to
                      hang onto and worship every word
                      spoken by their God's representative
                      on earth... the Godman (Klemp).

                      I guess that HK rationalizes his
                      lies by thinking that he's providing
                      a service to lost Souls. If it wasn't
                      for Eckankar these New Agers wouldn't
                      have anything to believe in to give
                      them hope.

                      On the other hand, if it wasn't
                      for Twitchell's Eckankar scam
                      Klemp wouldn't have had
                      such a good paying job with all
                      of those perks. It's hard to say
                      what he would be doing or where
                      he'd be living if it wasn't for being
                      promoted to LEM by Darwin. Chances
                      are he'd still be a 7th, or maybe an
                      8th initiate, and working at the ESC.
                      He'd be writing EK brochures or books
                      like Phil Morimitsu once wrote.

                      BTW-What ever happened to those
                      books? Klemp doesn't like the competition
                      does he!

                      prometheus



                      ***********************************
                      Twitchell's manuscript was a work
                      in progress with rewrites and tweaking
                      during his time (1955-65) spent with
                      his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh.

                      Klemp even mentions Kirpal on
                      Eckankar.org and his involvement
                      with The Tiger's Fang manuscript
                      not long before it was published.
                      Read the two sections titled "Struggle
                      for Mastership" and "Beginnings
                      of Eckankar" listed below.

                      http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

                      Interesting too that Klemp mentions
                      Kirpal Singh by name 15 times during
                      this "Behind the Scenes with Paul Twitchell"
                      while only mentioning former 970th LEM
                      Sudar Singh's name 6 times! Count and see!

                      Here, in Chapter 8, Twitchell has Sugmad
                      speaking to him and Kirpal (Rebazar). This
                      is just one of the problems that Kirpal had
                      with this manuscript. Anyway, here are some
                      quotes:

                      Sugmad:

                      "You are also God! You are myself! I!

                      1) "My First Principle is that this true cosmos IS!

                      2) "My Second Principle is that there is no
                      God but me, I; not me as you know, but
                      that which is within you, the Self. Therefore
                      all is God, include the lowest of life.

                      3) "My Third Principle is that to have divinity,
                      you must dwell in the center of my Light
                      and Sound; and since Light is God, and God
                      is Light then IT is everywhere, and has No
                      Focus except in each Soul. Thus I must dwell
                      in the Light within Me!

                      4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth is
                      greater than the Lie, and truth is never greater
                      than No truth, for the latter is the shining ideal
                      which God holds before the Soul in his true kingdom!

                      ***
                      It seems to me that Paul, at first, was wanting
                      to share some of his views and to become a
                      real writer with a book. Gail talked him into
                      making it into a religion when interest picked
                      up at his book promotions and people started
                      to look to Twit as their modern day saviour/prophet!
                      Klemp merely positioned himself at the ESC
                      and inherited the LEM title as Darwin's writer.

                      Prometheus



                      Hello Etznab and All,
                      I started another thread for this discussion.
                      Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                      1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                      until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                      up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                      that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                      Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                      and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                      Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                      one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                      editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                      fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                      delude its followers.

                      Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                      Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                      of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                      all of those secret teachings and when he made
                      PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                      mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                      one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                      Four More Years that this information (if we
                      believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                      Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                      the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                      it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                      the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                      the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                      are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                      some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                      gap, 1965-1969?

                      Prometheus


                      Hello Etznab,
                      It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                      Twitchell claims to have received the
                      Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                      he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                      have trouble remembering the details
                      of their lies. That's why Twit made
                      the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                      his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                      created or started the "outer church"
                      on this date. This way he'd remember
                      it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                      is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                      every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                      history, on this date... his birthday!

                      PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                      (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                      REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                      these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                      The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                      didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                      due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                      and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                      given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                      of God.

                      As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                      This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                      1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                      name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                      Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                      did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                      publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                      to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                      as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                      even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                      in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                      get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                      a past track record of lying has been verified
                      by Klemp.

                      The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                      but let's remember that Klemp states that
                      Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                      Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                      mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                      that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                      there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                      in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                      "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

                      If one has paid attention they will see that
                      Klemp has not only given new covers to
                      Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                      as well. Just look at the differences and
                      changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                      Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                      to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                      current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                      sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                      works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                      the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

                      Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                      ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                      included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                      these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                      How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                      of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

                      Prometheus




                      etznab wrote:

                      hat was interesting what you said about
                      "Mahanta".

                      Just the other day I was trying to remember
                      exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                      experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                      and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                      Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

                      Was that the date?

                      I assumed the writing about it would have to
                      be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                      for books after that date.

                      The Flute of God came out in installments
                      in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                      to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                      have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                      out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                      1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                      to Darwin Gross, I think.

                      1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                      (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                      took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                      mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                      various other forms of "Master".

                      All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                      In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

                      It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                      "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                      By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                      The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                      I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                      The Flute of God).

                      The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                      from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                      he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                      one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                      "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

                      The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                      "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

                      OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                      does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                      of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                      anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                      it at a seminar and it's on tape?

                      I'd like to find out when that experience was
                      mentioned and what was said about it to get
                      an idea about what "history" might exist.

                      Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                      I thought this query could be relevant to the
                      "Mahanta" topic.

                      Etznab

                      prometheus wrote:

                      Hello All,
                      I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                      Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

                      Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

                      In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                      condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                      delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                      1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                      true."

                      ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                      Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                      In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                      January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                      see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                      the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                      "The Wisdom Notes."

                      Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                      Twitchell stole even the name from another
                      spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                      in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                      was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                      of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                      form This was easy to accept, for most people
                      believe in some universal force whether called
                      "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                      associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                      and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                      of two words, he was able to transform himself
                      into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                      meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                      "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                      and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                      by making it part of "every word, thought and
                      action" of his followers."

                      ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                      be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                      in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                      Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                      Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                      in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                      create this term/position for himself until 1969.

                      BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                      by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                      Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                      used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                      (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                      that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                      was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

                      The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                      on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                      Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                      This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                      to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                      up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                      reproach and regain control as the highest of
                      all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                      title and definition.

                      Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                      for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                      on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                      12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                      states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                      Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                      need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                      on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                      for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                      of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                      is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                      Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                      straight!

                      Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                      Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                      by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                      Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                      page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                      was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                      interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                      had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                      talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                      Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                      that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                      970th LEM, was from.

                      I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                      wanted to present more details than what
                      were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                      for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                      Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                      up for him, as well as, creating his own
                      newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                      and distortions.

                      There's one more thing that I wanted to
                      mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                      Christians believe that Jesus will come
                      again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                      believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                      Freedom via God-Realization in this
                      lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!


                      Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                      will deny this, but they share the same
                      Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                      Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                      switch and made Adam into Adom and
                      Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                      for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                      Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                      where ECKists have made fun of the
                      Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                      would seem that they are laughing
                      at themselves and don't realize it!
                      How clueless! Then again, an inability
                      to do critical thinking and Not being
                      able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                      still ECKists.

                      Prometheus
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