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Re: Rebazar Was NOT a Mahanta in The Tiger's Fang

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, Let s summarize Paul s Initiation lies: 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh at about age 16 (1923-24). Paul states that he and Kay-Dee traveled
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 3, 2010
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      Hello All,
      Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:

      1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
      at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
      Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
      traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
      and stayed in Allahabad, India
      for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]

      2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
      to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
      Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
      Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]

      3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
      to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
      into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
      [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
      Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
      eckankar.org

      Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
      Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
      in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
      lied as to how many times he traveled
      to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
      Twit ever travelled to India!

      Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
      we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
      lying! And, this is just a couple of months
      before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!

      What's it all mean? It means that Twit
      conned people and that Klemp is still
      conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
      But, should anyone be surprised when
      religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
      gullible and loving people? Most people
      want to believe and they want to believe
      the best in whatever or whomever.
      Everyone has to figure out what category
      of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
      are manmade just as religions are.

      Prometheus


      prometheus wrote:
      Hello Etznab and All,
      "Difficulties Of Becoming The
      Living ECK Master" are historical
      transcriptions from private tapings
      by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:

      "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
      made private tapings of his struggles
      before and after his acceptance
      of the Rod of ECK Power on October
      22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
      who presented these tapes to Sri
      Darwin.)"

      On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
      Twitchell tells his story of being
      initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
      in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
      trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
      at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
      after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
      lie! Marman states that this was
      Paris, Kentucky and Not France
      as Paul would have us to believe.

      Let's also recall that Klemp states,
      on eckankar.org, that at age 27
      (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
      and "twisting facts" (lying) about
      his "grand achievements" to get
      into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
      Thus, there was no trip to Paris
      (France) nor to India at age 15
      in 1923!

      http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html



      Twit states:
      "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
      quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
      six to seven months being taught
      and learning the works of ECK...
      Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]

      ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
      the "Mahanta" once during these
      months!

      PT: "I had already been initiated
      (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
      the same as everybody else, the
      second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]

      ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
      (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
      there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
      Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
      Singh was Twitchell's Master from
      1955-65. They even have the same
      last name! What's this mean? Well,
      it means that Eckankar was/is based
      upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
      is Klemp! There's no such thing as
      a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
      as believable as the Wizard of Oz!

      ***
      BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
      gives Twitchell's birth year as
      1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
      Books One and Two" on the Copyright
      Page.

      The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
      the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
      "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
      how PT's birthday corresponds
      to the Spiritual New Year and the
      Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
      ***

      PT: "And then I got the Third and
      Fourth, I went up through About
      the Seventh at this particular time
      (pg. 71)."

      ME: How does one go up to
      "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
      Wouldn't a person remember
      what initiation it was if it were
      true? This is just more proof
      that Twit was lying once again!

      PT: "... later [1951], but not
      on this trip, I followed him up
      there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
      and I got the finish (12th) of
      my initiations (pg. 71)."

      Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
      the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
      Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
      Master! I know this because Twitchell
      never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
      1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
      closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
      never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
      Jan. 1, 1969.

      Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
      year gap of knowledge (not knowing
      about the Mahanta) is quite simple
      right? I just can't figure out what it
      would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?

      Prometheus


      etznab wrote:

      I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
      appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.

      There were other early books that didn't mention
      it either, if I remember correctly.


      prometheus wrote:

      Hello Etznab and All,
      I started another thread for this discussion.
      Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
      1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
      until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
      up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
      that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
      Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
      and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
      Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
      one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
      editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
      fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
      delude its followers.

      Really, one would think that when the fictitious
      Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
      of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
      all of those secret teachings and when he made
      PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
      mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
      one time or another! However, it wasn't for
      Four More Years that this information (if we
      believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
      Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
      the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
      it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
      the right circumstances, for him to figure out
      the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
      are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
      some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
      gap, 1965-1969?

      Prometheus

      Hello Etznab,
      It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
      Twitchell claims to have received the
      Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
      he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
      have trouble remembering the details
      of their lies. That's why Twit made
      the date of the LEM lie correspond to
      his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
      created or started the "outer church"
      on this date. This way he'd remember
      it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
      is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
      every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
      history, on this date... his birthday!

      PT did promote "Flute" via installments
      (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
      REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
      these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
      The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
      didn't get into print until 1970 probably
      due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
      and the First Printing date of 1970 are
      given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
      of God.

      As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
      This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
      1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
      name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
      Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
      did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
      publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
      to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
      as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
      even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
      in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
      get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
      a past track record of lying has been verified
      by Klemp.

      The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
      but let's remember that Klemp states that
      Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
      Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
      mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
      that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
      there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
      in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
      "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

      If one has paid attention they will see that
      Klemp has not only given new covers to
      Paul's older works, but has done reediting
      as well. Just look at the differences and
      changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
      Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
      to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
      current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
      sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
      works, but he can do this because Gail sold
      the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

      Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
      ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
      included, that are still her friend. Then again,
      these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
      How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
      of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

      Prometheus

      etznab wrote:

      hat was interesting what you said about
      "Mahanta".

      Just the other day I was trying to remember
      exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
      experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
      and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
      Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

      Was that the date?

      I assumed the writing about it would have to
      be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
      for books after that date.

      The Flute of God came out in installments
      in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
      to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
      have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
      out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
      1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
      to Darwin Gross, I think.

      1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
      (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
      took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
      mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
      various other forms of "Master".

      All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
      In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

      It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
      "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
      By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
      The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
      I believe. (That would be the edited version of
      The Flute of God).

      The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
      from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
      he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
      one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
      "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

      The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
      "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

      OK. So where in all these books since 1965
      does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
      of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
      anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
      it at a seminar and it's on tape?

      I'd like to find out when that experience was
      mentioned and what was said about it to get
      an idea about what "history" might exist.

      Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
      I thought this query could be relevant to the
      "Mahanta" topic.

      Etznab

      prometheus wrote:

      Hello All,
      I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
      Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

      Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

      In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
      condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
      delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
      1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
      true."

      ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
      Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
      In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
      January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
      see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
      the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
      "The Wisdom Notes."

      Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
      Twitchell stole even the name from another
      spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
      in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
      was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
      of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
      form This was easy to accept, for most people
      believe in some universal force whether called
      "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
      associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
      and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
      of two words, he was able to transform himself
      into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
      meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
      "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
      and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
      by making it part of "every word, thought and
      action" of his followers."

      ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
      be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
      in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
      Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
      Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
      in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
      create this term/position for himself until 1969.

      BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
      by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
      Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
      used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
      (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
      that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
      was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

      The second thing was that Paul began to renege
      on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
      Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
      This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
      to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
      up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
      reproach and regain control as the highest of
      all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
      title and definition.

      Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
      for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
      on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
      12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
      states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
      Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
      need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
      on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
      for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
      of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
      is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
      Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
      straight!

      Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
      Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
      by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
      Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
      page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
      was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
      interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
      had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
      talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
      Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
      that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
      970th LEM, was from.

      I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
      wanted to present more details than what
      were first gathered. It's a big job digging
      for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
      Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
      up for him, as well as, creating his own
      newer version of Eckankar with more lies
      and distortions.

      There's one more thing that I wanted to
      mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
      Christians believe that Jesus will come
      again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
      believe that they will achieve Spiritual
      Freedom via God-Realization in this
      lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

      Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
      will deny this, but they share the same
      Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
      Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
      switch and made Adam into Adom and
      Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
      for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
      Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
      where ECKists have made fun of the
      Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
      would seem that they are laughing
      at themselves and don't realize it!
      How clueless! Then again, an inability
      to do critical thinking and Not being
      able to connect-the-dots is why they're
      still ECKists.

      Prometheus
    • etznab@aol.com
      And then there is this: Hmm, his first wife, Camille Ballowe Taylor, states univocally that they never traveled together (or apart) from 1946 to 1955 anywhere
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 3, 2010
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        And then there is this:

        "Hmm, his first wife, Camille Ballowe Taylor,
        states univocally that they never traveled
        together (or apart) from 1946 to 1955 anywhere
        outside of the United States. Indeed, she says
        Paul and her were doing the "Self-Revelation
        Church of Absolute Monism" at the time and
        helping to edit their publications."

        http://dlane5.tripod.com/reba1.html

        I didn't learn this until rather recently. If this is
        true then I don't know how a 1947 or 1951 trip
        to India physically happened unless Paul made
        a double of himself for the occasion.

        Etznab


        -----Original Message-----
        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, Mar 3, 2010 5:44 pm
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Rebazar Was NOT a Mahanta in
        The Tiger's Fang

         
        Hello All,
        Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:

        1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
        at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
        Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
        traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
        and stayed in Allahabad, India
        for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]

        2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
        to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
        Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
        Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]

        3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
        to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
        into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
        [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
        Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
        eckankar.org

        Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
        Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
        in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
        lied as to how many times he traveled
        to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
        Twit ever travelled to India!

        Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
        we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
        lying! And, this is just a couple of months
        before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!

        What's it all mean? It means that Twit
        conned people and that Klemp is still
        conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
        But, should anyone be surprised when
        religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
        gullible and loving people? Most people
        want to believe and they want to believe
        the best in whatever or whomever.
        Everyone has to figure out what category
        of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
        are manmade just as religions are.

        Prometheus

        prometheus wrote:
        Hello Etznab and All,
        "Difficulties Of Becoming The
        Living ECK Master" are historical
        transcriptions from private tapings
        by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:

        "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
        made private tapings of his struggles
        before and after his acceptance
        of the Rod of ECK Power on October
        22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
        who presented these tapes to Sri
        Darwin.)"

        On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
        Twitchell tells his story of being
        initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
        in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
        trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
        at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
        after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
        lie! Marman states that this was
        Paris, Kentucky and Not France
        as Paul would have us to believe.

        Let's also recall that Klemp states,
        on eckankar.org, that at age 27
        (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
        and "twisting facts" (lying) about
        his "grand achievements" to get
        into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
        Thus, there was no trip to Paris
        (France) nor to India at age 15
        in 1923!

        http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html

        Twit states:
        "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
        quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
        six to seven months being taught
        and learning the works of ECK...
        Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]

        ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
        the "Mahanta" once during these
        months!

        PT: "I had already been initiated
        (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
        the same as everybody else, the
        second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]

        ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
        (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
        there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
        Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
        Singh was Twitchell's Master from
        1955-65. They even have the same
        last name! What's this mean? Well,
        it means that Eckankar was/is based
        upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
        is Klemp! There's no such thing as
        a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
        as believable as the Wizard of Oz!

        ***
        BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
        gives Twitchell's birth year as
        1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
        Books One and Two" on the Copyright
        Page.

        The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
        the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
        "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
        how PT's birthday corresponds
        to the Spiritual New Year and the
        Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
        ***

        PT: "And then I got the Third and
        Fourth, I went up through About
        the Seventh at this particular time
        (pg. 71)."

        ME: How does one go up to
        "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
        Wouldn't a person remember
        what initiation it was if it were
        true? This is just more proof
        that Twit was lying once again!

        PT: "... later [1951], but not
        on this trip, I followed him up
        there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
        and I got the finish (12th) of
        my initiations (pg. 71)."

        Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
        the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
        Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
        Master! I know this because Twitchell
        never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
        1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
        closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
        never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
        Jan. 1, 1969.

        Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
        year gap of knowledge (not knowing
        about the Mahanta) is quite simple
        right? I just can't figure out what it
        would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?

        Prometheus

        etznab wrote:

        I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
        appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.

        There were other early books that didn't mention
        it either, if I remember correctly.

        prometheus wrote:

        Hello Etznab and All,
        I started another thread for this discussion.
        Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
        1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
        until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
        up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
        that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
        Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
        and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
        Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
        one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
        editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
        fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
        delude its followers.

        Really, one would think that when the fictitious
        Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
        of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
        all of those secret teachings and when he made
        PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
        mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
        one time or another! However, it wasn't for
        Four More Years that this information (if we
        believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
        Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
        the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
        it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
        the right circumstances, for him to figure out
        the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
        are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
        some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
        gap, 1965-1969?

        Prometheus

        Hello Etznab,
        It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
        Twitchell claims to have received the
        Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
        he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
        have trouble remembering the details
        of their lies. That's why Twit made
        the date of the LEM lie correspond to
        his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
        created or started the "outer church"
        on this date. This way he'd remember
        it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
        is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
        every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
        history, on this date... his birthday!

        PT did promote "Flute" via installments
        (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
        REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
        these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
        The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
        didn't get into print until 1970 probably
        due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
        and the First Printing date of 1970 are
        given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
        of God.

        As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
        This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
        1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
        name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
        Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
        did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
        publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
        to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
        as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
        even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
        in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
        get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
        a past track record of lying has been verified
        by Klemp.

        The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
        but let's remember that Klemp states that
        Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
        Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
        mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
        that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
        there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
        in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
        "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

        If one has paid attention they will see that
        Klemp has not only given new covers to
        Paul's older works, but has done reediting
        as well. Just look at the differences and
        changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
        Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
        to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
        current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
        sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
        works, but he can do this because Gail sold
        the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

        Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
        ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
        included, that are still her friend. Then again,
        these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
        How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
        of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

        Prometheus

        etznab wrote:

        hat was interesting what you said about
        "Mahanta".

        Just the other day I was trying to remember
        exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
        experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
        and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
        Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

        Was that the date?

        I assumed the writing about it would have to
        be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
        for books after that date.

        The Flute of God came out in installments
        in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
        to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
        have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
        out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
        1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
        to Darwin Gross, I think.

        1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
        (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
        took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
        mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
        various other forms of "Master".

        All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
        In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

        It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
        "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
        By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
        The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
        I believe. (That would be the edited version of
        The Flute of God).

        The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
        from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
        he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
        one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
        "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

        The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
        "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

        OK. So where in all these books since 1965
        does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
        of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
        anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
        it at a seminar and it's on tape?

        I'd like to find out when that experience was
        mentioned and what was said about it to get
        an idea about what "history" might exist.

        Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
        I thought this query could be relevant to the
        "Mahanta" topic.

        Etznab

        prometheus wrote:

        Hello All,
        I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
        Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

        Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

        In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
        condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
        delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
        1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
        true."

        ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
        Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
        In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
        January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
        see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
        the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
        "The Wisdom Notes."

        Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
        Twitchell stole even the name from another
        spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
        in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
        was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
        of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
        form This was easy to accept, for most people
        believe in some universal force whether called
        "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
        associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
        and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
        of two words, he was able to transform himself
        into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
        meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
        "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
        and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
        by making it part of "every word, thought and
        action" of his followers."

        ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
        be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
        in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
        Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
        Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
        in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
        create this term/position for himself until 1969.

        BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
        by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
        Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
        used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
        (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
        that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
        was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

        The second thing was that Paul began to renege
        on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
        Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
        This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
        to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
        up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
        reproach and regain control as the highest of
        all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
        title and definition.

        Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
        for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
        on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
        12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
        states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
        Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
        need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
        on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
        for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
        of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
        is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
        Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
        straight!

        Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
        Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
        by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
        Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
        page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
        was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
        interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
        had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
        talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
        Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
        that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
        970th LEM, was from.

        I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
        wanted to present more details than what
        were first gathered. It's a big job digging
        for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
        Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
        up for him, as well as, creating his own
        newer version of Eckankar with more lies
        and distortions.

        There's one more thing that I wanted to
        mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
        Christians believe that Jesus will come
        again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
        believe that they will achieve Spiritual
        Freedom via God-Realization in this
        lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

        Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
        will deny this, but they share the same
        Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
        Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
        switch and made Adam into Adom and
        Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
        for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
        Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
        where ECKists have made fun of the
        Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
        would seem that they are laughing
        at themselves and don't realize it!
        How clueless! Then again, an inability
        to do critical thinking and Not being
        able to connect-the-dots is why they're
        still ECKists.

        Prometheus
      • ctecvie
        Hi Prometheus and all, commenting on the last paragraph of your post: Religions pretend that they can give answers to questions that cannot be answered. We
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 3, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Prometheus and all,

          commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
          Religions pretend that they can give answers to questions that cannot be answered. We need to accept the fact that not everything can be explained. And that's where religions come in and make (our) money!

          Ingrid

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
          >
          > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
          > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
          > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
          > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
          > and stayed in Allahabad, India
          > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
          >
          > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
          > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
          > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
          > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
          >
          > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
          > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
          > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
          > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
          > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
          > eckankar.org
          >
          > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
          > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
          > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
          > lied as to how many times he traveled
          > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
          > Twit ever travelled to India!
          >
          > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
          > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
          > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
          > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
          >
          > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
          > conned people and that Klemp is still
          > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
          > But, should anyone be surprised when
          > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
          > gullible and loving people? Most people
          > want to believe and they want to believe
          > the best in whatever or whomever.
          > Everyone has to figure out what category
          > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
          > are manmade just as religions are.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          > Hello Etznab and All,
          > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
          > Living ECK Master" are historical
          > transcriptions from private tapings
          > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
          >
          > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
          > made private tapings of his struggles
          > before and after his acceptance
          > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
          > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
          > who presented these tapes to Sri
          > Darwin.)"
          >
          > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
          > Twitchell tells his story of being
          > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
          > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
          > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
          > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
          > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
          > lie! Marman states that this was
          > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
          > as Paul would have us to believe.
          >
          > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
          > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
          > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
          > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
          > his "grand achievements" to get
          > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
          > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
          > (France) nor to India at age 15
          > in 1923!
          >
          > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
          >
          >
          >
          > Twit states:
          > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
          > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
          > six to seven months being taught
          > and learning the works of ECK...
          > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
          >
          > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
          > the "Mahanta" once during these
          > months!
          >
          > PT: "I had already been initiated
          > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
          > the same as everybody else, the
          > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
          >
          > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
          > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
          > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
          > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
          > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
          > 1955-65. They even have the same
          > last name! What's this mean? Well,
          > it means that Eckankar was/is based
          > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
          > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
          > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
          > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
          >
          > ***
          > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
          > gives Twitchell's birth year as
          > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
          > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
          > Page.
          >
          > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
          > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
          > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
          > how PT's birthday corresponds
          > to the Spiritual New Year and the
          > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
          > ***
          >
          > PT: "And then I got the Third and
          > Fourth, I went up through About
          > the Seventh at this particular time
          > (pg. 71)."
          >
          > ME: How does one go up to
          > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
          > Wouldn't a person remember
          > what initiation it was if it were
          > true? This is just more proof
          > that Twit was lying once again!
          >
          > PT: "... later [1951], but not
          > on this trip, I followed him up
          > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
          > and I got the finish (12th) of
          > my initiations (pg. 71)."
          >
          > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
          > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
          > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
          > Master! I know this because Twitchell
          > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
          > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
          > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
          > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
          > Jan. 1, 1969.
          >
          > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
          > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
          > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
          > right? I just can't figure out what it
          > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > etznab wrote:
          >
          > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
          > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
          >
          > There were other early books that didn't mention
          > it either, if I remember correctly.
          >
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello Etznab and All,
          > I started another thread for this discussion.
          > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
          > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
          > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
          > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
          > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
          > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
          > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
          > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
          > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
          > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
          > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
          > delude its followers.
          >
          > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
          > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
          > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
          > all of those secret teachings and when he made
          > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
          > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
          > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
          > Four More Years that this information (if we
          > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
          > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
          > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
          > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
          > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
          > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
          > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
          > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
          > gap, 1965-1969?
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > Hello Etznab,
          > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
          > Twitchell claims to have received the
          > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
          > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
          > have trouble remembering the details
          > of their lies. That's why Twit made
          > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
          > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
          > created or started the "outer church"
          > on this date. This way he'd remember
          > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
          > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
          > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
          > history, on this date... his birthday!
          >
          > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
          > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
          > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
          > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
          > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
          > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
          > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
          > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
          > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
          > of God.
          >
          > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
          > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
          > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
          > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
          > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
          > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
          > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
          > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
          > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
          > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
          > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
          > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
          > a past track record of lying has been verified
          > by Klemp.
          >
          > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
          > but let's remember that Klemp states that
          > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
          > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
          > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
          > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
          > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
          > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
          > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
          >
          > If one has paid attention they will see that
          > Klemp has not only given new covers to
          > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
          > as well. Just look at the differences and
          > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
          > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
          > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
          > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
          > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
          > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
          > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
          >
          > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
          > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
          > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
          > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
          > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
          > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > etznab wrote:
          >
          > hat was interesting what you said about
          > "Mahanta".
          >
          > Just the other day I was trying to remember
          > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
          > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
          > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
          > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
          >
          > Was that the date?
          >
          > I assumed the writing about it would have to
          > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
          > for books after that date.
          >
          > The Flute of God came out in installments
          > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
          > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
          > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
          > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
          > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
          > to Darwin Gross, I think.
          >
          > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
          > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
          > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
          > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
          > various other forms of "Master".
          >
          > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
          > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
          >
          > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
          > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
          > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
          > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
          > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
          > The Flute of God).
          >
          > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
          > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
          > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
          > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
          > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
          >
          > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
          > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
          >
          > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
          > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
          > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
          > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
          > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
          >
          > I'd like to find out when that experience was
          > mentioned and what was said about it to get
          > an idea about what "history" might exist.
          >
          > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
          > I thought this query could be relevant to the
          > "Mahanta" topic.
          >
          > Etznab
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
          > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
          >
          > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
          >
          > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
          > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
          > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
          > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
          > true."
          >
          > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
          > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
          > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
          > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
          > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
          > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
          > "The Wisdom Notes."
          >
          > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
          > Twitchell stole even the name from another
          > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
          > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
          > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
          > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
          > form This was easy to accept, for most people
          > believe in some universal force whether called
          > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
          > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
          > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
          > of two words, he was able to transform himself
          > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
          > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
          > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
          > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
          > by making it part of "every word, thought and
          > action" of his followers."
          >
          > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
          > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
          > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
          > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
          > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
          > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
          > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
          >
          > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
          > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
          > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
          > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
          > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
          > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
          > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
          >
          > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
          > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
          > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
          > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
          > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
          > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
          > reproach and regain control as the highest of
          > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
          > title and definition.
          >
          > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
          > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
          > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
          > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
          > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
          > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
          > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
          > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
          > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
          > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
          > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
          > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
          > straight!
          >
          > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
          > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
          > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
          > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
          > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
          > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
          > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
          > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
          > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
          > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
          > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
          > 970th LEM, was from.
          >
          > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
          > wanted to present more details than what
          > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
          > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
          > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
          > up for him, as well as, creating his own
          > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
          > and distortions.
          >
          > There's one more thing that I wanted to
          > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
          > Christians believe that Jesus will come
          > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
          > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
          > Freedom via God-Realization in this
          > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
          >
          > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
          > will deny this, but they share the same
          > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
          > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
          > switch and made Adam into Adom and
          > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
          > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
          > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
          > where ECKists have made fun of the
          > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
          > would seem that they are laughing
          > at themselves and don't realize it!
          > How clueless! Then again, an inability
          > to do critical thinking and Not being
          > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
          > still ECKists.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Ingrid and All, Yes, all religions take our money in one way or another. All of us pay for their Holy Wars that they wage upon the rest of us. Their members
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 4, 2010
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            Hi Ingrid and All,
            Yes, all religions take our money
            in one way or another. All of us pay
            for their Holy Wars that they wage
            upon the rest of us. Their members
            also pay for future promises and to
            feel good and all puffed-up, now,
            while looking down their noses at
            all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
            interesting that so many of them
            believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
            dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
            Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
            that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
            (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).

            Prometheus

            ctecvie wrote:

            Hi Prometheus and all,

            commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
            Religions pretend that they can give answers to
            questions that cannot be answered. We need to
            accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
            And that's where religions come in and make (our)
            money!

            Ingrid


            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
            >
            > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
            > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
            > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
            > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
            > and stayed in Allahabad, India
            > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
            >
            > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
            > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
            > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
            > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
            >
            > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
            > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
            > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
            > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
            > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
            > eckankar.org
            >
            > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
            > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
            > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
            > lied as to how many times he traveled
            > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
            > Twit ever travelled to India!
            >
            > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
            > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
            > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
            > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
            >
            > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
            > conned people and that Klemp is still
            > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
            > But, should anyone be surprised when
            > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
            > gullible and loving people? Most people
            > want to believe and they want to believe
            > the best in whatever or whomever.
            > Everyone has to figure out what category
            > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
            > are manmade just as religions are.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            > Hello Etznab and All,
            > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
            > Living ECK Master" are historical
            > transcriptions from private tapings
            > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
            >
            > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
            > made private tapings of his struggles
            > before and after his acceptance
            > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
            > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
            > who presented these tapes to Sri
            > Darwin.)"
            >
            > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
            > Twitchell tells his story of being
            > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
            > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
            > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
            > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
            > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
            > lie! Marman states that this was
            > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
            > as Paul would have us to believe.
            >
            > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
            > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
            > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
            > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
            > his "grand achievements" to get
            > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
            > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
            > (France) nor to India at age 15
            > in 1923!
            >
            http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
            >
            >
            >
            > Twit states:
            > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
            > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
            > six to seven months being taught
            > and learning the works of ECK...
            > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
            >
            > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
            > the "Mahanta" once during these
            > months!
            >
            > PT: "I had already been initiated
            > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
            > the same as everybody else, the
            > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
            >
            > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
            > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
            > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
            > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
            > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
            > 1955-65. They even have the same
            > last name! What's this mean? Well,
            > it means that Eckankar was/is based
            > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
            > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
            > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
            > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
            >
            > ***
            > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
            > gives Twitchell's birth year as
            > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
            > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
            > Page.
            >
            > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
            > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
            > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
            > how PT's birthday corresponds
            > to the Spiritual New Year and the
            > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
            > ***
            >
            > PT: "And then I got the Third and
            > Fourth, I went up through About
            > the Seventh at this particular time
            > (pg. 71)."
            >
            > ME: How does one go up to
            > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
            > Wouldn't a person remember
            > what initiation it was if it were
            > true? This is just more proof
            > that Twit was lying once again!
            >
            > PT: "... later [1951], but not
            > on this trip, I followed him up
            > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
            > and I got the finish (12th) of
            > my initiations (pg. 71)."
            >
            > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
            > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
            > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
            > Master! I know this because Twitchell
            > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
            > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
            > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
            > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
            > Jan. 1, 1969.
            >
            > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
            > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
            > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
            > right? I just can't figure out what it
            > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > etznab wrote:
            >
            > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
            > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
            >
            > There were other early books that didn't mention
            > it either, if I remember correctly.
            >
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello Etznab and All,
            > I started another thread for this discussion.
            > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
            > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
            > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
            > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
            > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
            > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
            > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
            > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
            > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
            > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
            > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
            > delude its followers.
            >
            > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
            > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
            > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
            > all of those secret teachings and when he made
            > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
            > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
            > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
            > Four More Years that this information (if we
            > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
            > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
            > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
            > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
            > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
            > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
            > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
            > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
            > gap, 1965-1969?
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > Hello Etznab,
            > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
            > Twitchell claims to have received the
            > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
            > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
            > have trouble remembering the details
            > of their lies. That's why Twit made
            > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
            > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
            > created or started the "outer church"
            > on this date. This way he'd remember
            > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
            > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
            > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
            > history, on this date... his birthday!
            >
            > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
            > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
            > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
            > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
            > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
            > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
            > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
            > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
            > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
            > of God.
            >
            > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
            > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
            > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
            > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
            > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
            > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
            > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
            > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
            > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
            > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
            > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
            > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
            > a past track record of lying has been verified
            > by Klemp.
            >
            > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
            > but let's remember that Klemp states that
            > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
            > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
            > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
            > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
            > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
            > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
            > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
            >
            > If one has paid attention they will see that
            > Klemp has not only given new covers to
            > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
            > as well. Just look at the differences and
            > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
            > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
            > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
            > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
            > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
            > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
            > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
            >
            > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
            > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
            > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
            > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
            > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
            > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > etznab wrote:
            >
            > hat was interesting what you said about
            > "Mahanta".
            >
            > Just the other day I was trying to remember
            > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
            > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
            > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
            > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
            >
            > Was that the date?
            >
            > I assumed the writing about it would have to
            > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
            > for books after that date.
            >
            > The Flute of God came out in installments
            > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
            > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
            > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
            > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
            > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
            > to Darwin Gross, I think.
            >
            > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
            > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
            > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
            > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
            > various other forms of "Master".
            >
            > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
            > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
            >
            > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
            > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
            > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
            > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
            > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
            > The Flute of God).
            >
            > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
            > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
            > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
            > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
            > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
            >
            > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
            > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
            >
            > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
            > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
            > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
            > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
            > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
            >
            > I'd like to find out when that experience was
            > mentioned and what was said about it to get
            > an idea about what "history" might exist.
            >
            > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
            > I thought this query could be relevant to the
            > "Mahanta" topic.
            >
            > Etznab
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
            > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
            >
            > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
            >
            > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
            > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
            > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
            > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
            > true."
            >
            > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
            > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
            > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
            > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
            > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
            > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
            > "The Wisdom Notes."
            >
            > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
            > Twitchell stole even the name from another
            > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
            > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
            > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
            > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
            > form This was easy to accept, for most people
            > believe in some universal force whether called
            > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
            > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
            > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
            > of two words, he was able to transform himself
            > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
            > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
            > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
            > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
            > by making it part of "every word, thought and
            > action" of his followers."
            >
            > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
            > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
            > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
            > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
            > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
            > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
            > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
            >
            > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
            > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
            > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
            > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
            > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
            > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
            > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
            >
            > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
            > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
            > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
            > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
            > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
            > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
            > reproach and regain control as the highest of
            > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
            > title and definition.
            >
            > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
            > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
            > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
            > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
            > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
            > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
            > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
            > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
            > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
            > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
            > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
            > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
            > straight!
            >
            > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
            > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
            > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
            > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
            > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
            > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
            > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
            > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
            > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
            > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
            > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
            > 970th LEM, was from.
            >
            > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
            > wanted to present more details than what
            > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
            > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
            > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
            > up for him, as well as, creating his own
            > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
            > and distortions.
            >
            > There's one more thing that I wanted to
            > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
            > Christians believe that Jesus will come
            > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
            > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
            > Freedom via God-Realization in this
            > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
            >
            > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
            > will deny this, but they share the same
            > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
            > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
            > switch and made Adam into Adom and
            > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
            > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
            > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
            > where ECKists have made fun of the
            > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
            > would seem that they are laughing
            > at themselves and don't realize it!
            > How clueless! Then again, an inability
            > to do critical thinking and Not being
            > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
            > still ECKists.
            >
            > Prometheus
          • ctecvie
            Hi Prometheus, yes the feel good factor is another important issue why people need religions. Isn t it just great to feel like the ones who will be saved
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 5, 2010
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              Hi Prometheus,

              yes the "feel good" factor is another important issue why people need religions. Isn't it just great to feel like the ones who will be "saved" because they belong to the "right" group of people and to just know it all? It's really so good to look down on the poor devils who haven't figured it out for themselves ... :-D

              And the karma thingie in eckankar is the same thing as the original sin of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened their eyes, they could see that very easily! LOL!

              Ingrid

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Ingrid and All,
              > Yes, all religions take our money
              > in one way or another. All of us pay
              > for their Holy Wars that they wage
              > upon the rest of us. Their members
              > also pay for future promises and to
              > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
              > while looking down their noses at
              > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
              > interesting that so many of them
              > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
              > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
              > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
              > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
              > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > ctecvie wrote:
              >
              > Hi Prometheus and all,
              >
              > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
              > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
              > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
              > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
              > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
              > money!
              >
              > Ingrid
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello All,
              > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
              > >
              > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
              > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
              > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
              > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
              > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
              > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
              > >
              > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
              > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
              > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
              > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
              > >
              > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
              > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
              > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
              > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
              > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
              > > eckankar.org
              > >
              > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
              > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
              > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
              > > lied as to how many times he traveled
              > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
              > > Twit ever travelled to India!
              > >
              > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
              > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
              > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
              > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
              > >
              > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
              > > conned people and that Klemp is still
              > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
              > > But, should anyone be surprised when
              > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
              > > gullible and loving people? Most people
              > > want to believe and they want to believe
              > > the best in whatever or whomever.
              > > Everyone has to figure out what category
              > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
              > > are manmade just as religions are.
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > >
              > > prometheus wrote:
              > > Hello Etznab and All,
              > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
              > > Living ECK Master" are historical
              > > transcriptions from private tapings
              > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
              > >
              > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
              > > made private tapings of his struggles
              > > before and after his acceptance
              > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
              > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
              > > who presented these tapes to Sri
              > > Darwin.)"
              > >
              > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
              > > Twitchell tells his story of being
              > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
              > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
              > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
              > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
              > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
              > > lie! Marman states that this was
              > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
              > > as Paul would have us to believe.
              > >
              > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
              > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
              > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
              > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
              > > his "grand achievements" to get
              > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
              > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
              > > (France) nor to India at age 15
              > > in 1923!
              > >
              > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Twit states:
              > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
              > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
              > > six to seven months being taught
              > > and learning the works of ECK...
              > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
              > >
              > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
              > > the "Mahanta" once during these
              > > months!
              > >
              > > PT: "I had already been initiated
              > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
              > > the same as everybody else, the
              > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
              > >
              > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
              > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
              > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
              > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
              > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
              > > 1955-65. They even have the same
              > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
              > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
              > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
              > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
              > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
              > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
              > >
              > > ***
              > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
              > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
              > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
              > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
              > > Page.
              > >
              > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
              > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
              > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
              > > how PT's birthday corresponds
              > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
              > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
              > > ***
              > >
              > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
              > > Fourth, I went up through About
              > > the Seventh at this particular time
              > > (pg. 71)."
              > >
              > > ME: How does one go up to
              > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
              > > Wouldn't a person remember
              > > what initiation it was if it were
              > > true? This is just more proof
              > > that Twit was lying once again!
              > >
              > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
              > > on this trip, I followed him up
              > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
              > > and I got the finish (12th) of
              > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
              > >
              > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
              > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
              > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
              > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
              > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
              > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
              > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
              > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
              > > Jan. 1, 1969.
              > >
              > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
              > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
              > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
              > > right? I just can't figure out what it
              > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > >
              > > etznab wrote:
              > >
              > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
              > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
              > >
              > > There were other early books that didn't mention
              > > it either, if I remember correctly.
              > >
              > >
              > > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Etznab and All,
              > > I started another thread for this discussion.
              > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
              > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
              > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
              > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
              > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
              > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
              > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
              > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
              > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
              > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
              > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
              > > delude its followers.
              > >
              > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
              > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
              > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
              > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
              > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
              > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
              > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
              > > Four More Years that this information (if we
              > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
              > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
              > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
              > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
              > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
              > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
              > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
              > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
              > > gap, 1965-1969?
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > > Hello Etznab,
              > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
              > > Twitchell claims to have received the
              > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
              > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
              > > have trouble remembering the details
              > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
              > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
              > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
              > > created or started the "outer church"
              > > on this date. This way he'd remember
              > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
              > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
              > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
              > > history, on this date... his birthday!
              > >
              > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
              > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
              > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
              > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
              > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
              > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
              > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
              > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
              > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
              > > of God.
              > >
              > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
              > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
              > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
              > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
              > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
              > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
              > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
              > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
              > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
              > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
              > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
              > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
              > > a past track record of lying has been verified
              > > by Klemp.
              > >
              > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
              > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
              > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
              > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
              > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
              > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
              > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
              > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
              > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
              > >
              > > If one has paid attention they will see that
              > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
              > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
              > > as well. Just look at the differences and
              > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
              > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
              > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
              > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
              > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
              > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
              > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
              > >
              > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
              > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
              > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
              > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
              > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
              > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > > etznab wrote:
              > >
              > > hat was interesting what you said about
              > > "Mahanta".
              > >
              > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
              > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
              > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
              > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
              > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
              > >
              > > Was that the date?
              > >
              > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
              > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
              > > for books after that date.
              > >
              > > The Flute of God came out in installments
              > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
              > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
              > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
              > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
              > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
              > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
              > >
              > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
              > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
              > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
              > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
              > > various other forms of "Master".
              > >
              > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
              > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
              > >
              > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
              > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
              > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
              > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
              > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
              > > The Flute of God).
              > >
              > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
              > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
              > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
              > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
              > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
              > >
              > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
              > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
              > >
              > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
              > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
              > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
              > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
              > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
              > >
              > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
              > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
              > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
              > >
              > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
              > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
              > > "Mahanta" topic.
              > >
              > > Etznab
              > >
              > > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello All,
              > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
              > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
              > >
              > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
              > >
              > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
              > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
              > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
              > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
              > > true."
              > >
              > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
              > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
              > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
              > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
              > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
              > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
              > > "The Wisdom Notes."
              > >
              > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
              > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
              > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
              > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
              > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
              > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
              > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
              > > believe in some universal force whether called
              > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
              > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
              > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
              > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
              > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
              > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
              > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
              > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
              > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
              > > action" of his followers."
              > >
              > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
              > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
              > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
              > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
              > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
              > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
              > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
              > >
              > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
              > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
              > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
              > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
              > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
              > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
              > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
              > >
              > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
              > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
              > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
              > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
              > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
              > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
              > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
              > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
              > > title and definition.
              > >
              > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
              > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
              > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
              > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
              > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
              > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
              > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
              > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
              > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
              > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
              > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
              > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
              > > straight!
              > >
              > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
              > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
              > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
              > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
              > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
              > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
              > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
              > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
              > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
              > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
              > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
              > > 970th LEM, was from.
              > >
              > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
              > > wanted to present more details than what
              > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
              > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
              > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
              > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
              > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
              > > and distortions.
              > >
              > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
              > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
              > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
              > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
              > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
              > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
              > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
              > >
              > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
              > > will deny this, but they share the same
              > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
              > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
              > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
              > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
              > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
              > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
              > > where ECKists have made fun of the
              > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
              > > would seem that they are laughing
              > > at themselves and don't realize it!
              > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
              > > to do critical thinking and Not being
              > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
              > > still ECKists.
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Ingrid, I was curious if you know how many countries force people to pay a tax for church membership? Which countries and which churches does it include?
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 5, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Ingrid,
                I was curious if you know how
                many countries force people to
                pay a tax for church membership?
                Which countries and which churches
                does it include? Why are these
                governments forcing people to
                pay this tax? Are the churches that
                powerful, or is the government taking
                their cut too? Is it just the Catholic and
                Lutheran churches? Were you forced
                to pay a tax due to Eckankar membership?

                Forgive the questions but I've heard
                something about this happening in
                Germany.

                Prometheus


                ctecvie wrote:

                Hi Prometheus,

                yes the "feel good" factor is another
                important issue why people need
                religions. Isn't it just great to feel
                like the ones who will be "saved"
                because they belong to the "right"
                group of people and to just know
                it all? It's really so good to look
                down on the poor devils who haven't
                figured it out for themselves
                ... :-D

                And the karma thingie in eckankar
                is the same thing as the original sin
                of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened
                their eyes, they could see that very easily!
                LOL!

                Ingrid

                prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hi Ingrid and All,
                > Yes, all religions take our money
                > in one way or another. All of us pay
                > for their Holy Wars that they wage
                > upon the rest of us. Their members
                > also pay for future promises and to
                > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
                > while looking down their noses at
                > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
                > interesting that so many of them
                > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
                > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
                > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
                > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
                > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > ctecvie wrote:
                >
                > Hi Prometheus and all,
                >
                > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
                > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
                > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
                > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
                > money!
                >
                > Ingrid
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello All,
                > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                > >
                > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                > >
                > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                > >
                > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                > > eckankar.org
                > >
                > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                > > lied as to how many times he traveled
                > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                > > Twit ever travelled to India!
                > >
                > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                > >
                > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                > > conned people and that Klemp is still
                > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                > > But, should anyone be surprised when
                > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                > > gullible and loving people? Most people
                > > want to believe and they want to believe
                > > the best in whatever or whomever.
                > > Everyone has to figure out what category
                > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                > > are manmade just as religions are.
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > > prometheus wrote:
                > > Hello Etznab and All,
                > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                > > Living ECK Master" are historical
                > > transcriptions from private tapings
                > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                > >
                > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                > > made private tapings of his struggles
                > > before and after his acceptance
                > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                > > who presented these tapes to Sri
                > > Darwin.)"
                > >
                > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                > > Twitchell tells his story of being
                > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                > > lie! Marman states that this was
                > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                > > as Paul would have us to believe.
                > >
                > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                > > his "grand achievements" to get
                > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                > > (France) nor to India at age 15
                > > in 1923!
                > >
                > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Twit states:
                > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                > > six to seven months being taught
                > > and learning the works of ECK...
                > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                > >
                > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                > > the "Mahanta" once during these
                > > months!
                > >
                > > PT: "I had already been initiated
                > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                > > the same as everybody else, the
                > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                > >
                > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                > > 1955-65. They even have the same
                > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                > >
                > > ***
                > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                > > Page.
                > >
                > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                > > how PT's birthday corresponds
                > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                > > ***
                > >
                > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                > > Fourth, I went up through About
                > > the Seventh at this particular time
                > > (pg. 71)."
                > >
                > > ME: How does one go up to
                > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                > > Wouldn't a person remember
                > > what initiation it was if it were
                > > true? This is just more proof
                > > that Twit was lying once again!
                > >
                > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                > > on this trip, I followed him up
                > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                > > and I got the finish (12th) of
                > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                > >
                > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                > > Jan. 1, 1969.
                > >
                > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                > > right? I just can't figure out what it
                > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > > etznab wrote:
                > >
                > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                > >
                > > There were other early books that didn't mention
                > > it either, if I remember correctly.
                > >
                > >
                > > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello Etznab and All,
                > > I started another thread for this discussion.
                > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                > > delude its followers.
                > >
                > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                > > Four More Years that this information (if we
                > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                > > gap, 1965-1969?
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > > Hello Etznab,
                > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                > > Twitchell claims to have received the
                > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                > > have trouble remembering the details
                > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                > > created or started the "outer church"
                > > on this date. This way he'd remember
                > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                > > history, on this date... his birthday!
                > >
                > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                > > of God.
                > >
                > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                > > a past track record of lying has been verified
                > > by Klemp.
                > >
                > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                > >
                > > If one has paid attention they will see that
                > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                > > as well. Just look at the differences and
                > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                > >
                > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > > etznab wrote:
                > >
                > > hat was interesting what you said about
                > > "Mahanta".
                > >
                > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                > >
                > > Was that the date?
                > >
                > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                > > for books after that date.
                > >
                > > The Flute of God came out in installments
                > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                > >
                > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                > > various other forms of "Master".
                > >
                > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                > >
                > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                > > The Flute of God).
                > >
                > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                > >
                > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                > >
                > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                > >
                > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                > >
                > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                > > "Mahanta" topic.
                > >
                > > Etznab
                > >
                > > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello All,
                > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                > >
                > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                > >
                > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                > > true."
                > >
                > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                > > "The Wisdom Notes."
                > >
                > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                > > believe in some universal force whether called
                > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                > > action" of his followers."
                > >
                > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                > >
                > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                > >
                > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                > > title and definition.
                > >
                > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                > > straight!
                > >
                > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                > > 970th LEM, was from.
                > >
                > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                > > wanted to present more details than what
                > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                > > and distortions.
                > >
                > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                > >
                > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                > > will deny this, but they share the same
                > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                > > where ECKists have made fun of the
                > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                > > would seem that they are laughing
                > > at themselves and don't realize it!
                > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                > > to do critical thinking and Not being
                > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                > > still ECKists.
                > >
                > > Prometheus
              • ctecvie
                Hi Prometheus, ... ***In Austria, it s only the Catholic church. As far as I know, Lutherans don t pay anything. And no, I didn t pay any tex when I was a
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 5, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Prometheus,

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Ingrid,
                  > I was curious if you know how
                  > many countries force people to
                  > pay a tax for church membership?
                  ***In Austria it's the Catholic church. I don't know if there are any other countries but I think that in Germany a church tax is deduced directly from the salary if you are a member of that particular church - I think it's the Lutherans.

                  > Which countries and which churches
                  > does it include? Why are these
                  > governments forcing people to
                  > pay this tax?
                  ***In Austria, it's not the government but the Catholic church itself. Once you start working and are a Catholic, they come inevitably and charge you a fee. You need to give proof of your salary because if you don't they'll just charge you any amount that comes them to mind. I left the Catholic church in 1986, so no more hassle since that time! If you try to disappear, they'll find you somehow.

                  >Are the churches that
                  > powerful, or is the government taking
                  > their cut too?
                  ***Not in Austria, no.
                  >Is it just the Catholic and
                  > Lutheran churches? Were you forced
                  > to pay a tax due to Eckankar membership?
                  ***In Austria, it's only the Catholic church. As far as I know, Lutherans don't pay anything. And no, I didn't pay any tex when I was a member of eckankar.
                  Ingrid

                  >
                  > Forgive the questions but I've heard
                  > something about this happening in
                  > Germany.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  > ctecvie wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Prometheus,
                  >
                  > yes the "feel good" factor is another
                  > important issue why people need
                  > religions. Isn't it just great to feel
                  > like the ones who will be "saved"
                  > because they belong to the "right"
                  > group of people and to just know
                  > it all? It's really so good to look
                  > down on the poor devils who haven't
                  > figured it out for themselves
                  > ... :-D
                  >
                  > And the karma thingie in eckankar
                  > is the same thing as the original sin
                  > of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened
                  > their eyes, they could see that very easily!
                  > LOL!
                  >
                  > Ingrid
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Ingrid and All,
                  > > Yes, all religions take our money
                  > > in one way or another. All of us pay
                  > > for their Holy Wars that they wage
                  > > upon the rest of us. Their members
                  > > also pay for future promises and to
                  > > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
                  > > while looking down their noses at
                  > > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
                  > > interesting that so many of them
                  > > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
                  > > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
                  > > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
                  > > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
                  > > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > > ctecvie wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Prometheus and all,
                  > >
                  > > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                  > > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
                  > > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
                  > > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
                  > > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
                  > > money!
                  > >
                  > > Ingrid
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > prometheus wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hello All,
                  > > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                  > > >
                  > > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                  > > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                  > > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                  > > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                  > > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                  > > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                  > > >
                  > > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                  > > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                  > > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                  > > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                  > > >
                  > > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                  > > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                  > > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                  > > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                  > > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                  > > > eckankar.org
                  > > >
                  > > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                  > > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                  > > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                  > > > lied as to how many times he traveled
                  > > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                  > > > Twit ever travelled to India!
                  > > >
                  > > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                  > > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                  > > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                  > > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                  > > >
                  > > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                  > > > conned people and that Klemp is still
                  > > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                  > > > But, should anyone be surprised when
                  > > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                  > > > gullible and loving people? Most people
                  > > > want to believe and they want to believe
                  > > > the best in whatever or whomever.
                  > > > Everyone has to figure out what category
                  > > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                  > > > are manmade just as religions are.
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > prometheus wrote:
                  > > > Hello Etznab and All,
                  > > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                  > > > Living ECK Master" are historical
                  > > > transcriptions from private tapings
                  > > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                  > > >
                  > > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                  > > > made private tapings of his struggles
                  > > > before and after his acceptance
                  > > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                  > > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                  > > > who presented these tapes to Sri
                  > > > Darwin.)"
                  > > >
                  > > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                  > > > Twitchell tells his story of being
                  > > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                  > > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                  > > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                  > > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                  > > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                  > > > lie! Marman states that this was
                  > > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                  > > > as Paul would have us to believe.
                  > > >
                  > > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                  > > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                  > > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                  > > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                  > > > his "grand achievements" to get
                  > > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                  > > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                  > > > (France) nor to India at age 15
                  > > > in 1923!
                  > > >
                  > > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Twit states:
                  > > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                  > > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                  > > > six to seven months being taught
                  > > > and learning the works of ECK...
                  > > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                  > > >
                  > > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                  > > > the "Mahanta" once during these
                  > > > months!
                  > > >
                  > > > PT: "I had already been initiated
                  > > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                  > > > the same as everybody else, the
                  > > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                  > > >
                  > > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                  > > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                  > > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                  > > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                  > > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                  > > > 1955-65. They even have the same
                  > > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                  > > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                  > > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                  > > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                  > > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                  > > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                  > > >
                  > > > ***
                  > > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                  > > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                  > > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                  > > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                  > > > Page.
                  > > >
                  > > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                  > > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                  > > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                  > > > how PT's birthday corresponds
                  > > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                  > > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                  > > > ***
                  > > >
                  > > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                  > > > Fourth, I went up through About
                  > > > the Seventh at this particular time
                  > > > (pg. 71)."
                  > > >
                  > > > ME: How does one go up to
                  > > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                  > > > Wouldn't a person remember
                  > > > what initiation it was if it were
                  > > > true? This is just more proof
                  > > > that Twit was lying once again!
                  > > >
                  > > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                  > > > on this trip, I followed him up
                  > > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                  > > > and I got the finish (12th) of
                  > > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                  > > >
                  > > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                  > > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                  > > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                  > > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                  > > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                  > > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                  > > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                  > > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                  > > > Jan. 1, 1969.
                  > > >
                  > > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                  > > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                  > > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                  > > > right? I just can't figure out what it
                  > > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > etznab wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                  > > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                  > > >
                  > > > There were other early books that didn't mention
                  > > > it either, if I remember correctly.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > prometheus wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hello Etznab and All,
                  > > > I started another thread for this discussion.
                  > > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                  > > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                  > > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                  > > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                  > > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                  > > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                  > > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                  > > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                  > > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                  > > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                  > > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                  > > > delude its followers.
                  > > >
                  > > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                  > > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                  > > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                  > > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                  > > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                  > > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                  > > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                  > > > Four More Years that this information (if we
                  > > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                  > > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                  > > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                  > > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                  > > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                  > > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                  > > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                  > > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                  > > > gap, 1965-1969?
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus
                  > > >
                  > > > Hello Etznab,
                  > > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                  > > > Twitchell claims to have received the
                  > > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                  > > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                  > > > have trouble remembering the details
                  > > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                  > > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                  > > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                  > > > created or started the "outer church"
                  > > > on this date. This way he'd remember
                  > > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                  > > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                  > > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                  > > > history, on this date... his birthday!
                  > > >
                  > > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                  > > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                  > > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                  > > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                  > > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                  > > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                  > > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                  > > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                  > > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                  > > > of God.
                  > > >
                  > > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                  > > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                  > > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                  > > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                  > > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                  > > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                  > > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                  > > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                  > > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                  > > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                  > > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                  > > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                  > > > a past track record of lying has been verified
                  > > > by Klemp.
                  > > >
                  > > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                  > > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                  > > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                  > > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                  > > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                  > > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                  > > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                  > > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                  > > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                  > > >
                  > > > If one has paid attention they will see that
                  > > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                  > > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                  > > > as well. Just look at the differences and
                  > > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                  > > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                  > > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                  > > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                  > > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                  > > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                  > > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                  > > >
                  > > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                  > > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                  > > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                  > > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                  > > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                  > > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus
                  > > >
                  > > > etznab wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > hat was interesting what you said about
                  > > > "Mahanta".
                  > > >
                  > > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                  > > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                  > > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                  > > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                  > > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                  > > >
                  > > > Was that the date?
                  > > >
                  > > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                  > > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                  > > > for books after that date.
                  > > >
                  > > > The Flute of God came out in installments
                  > > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                  > > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                  > > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                  > > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                  > > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                  > > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                  > > >
                  > > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                  > > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                  > > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                  > > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                  > > > various other forms of "Master".
                  > > >
                  > > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                  > > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                  > > >
                  > > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                  > > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                  > > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                  > > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                  > > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                  > > > The Flute of God).
                  > > >
                  > > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                  > > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                  > > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                  > > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                  > > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                  > > >
                  > > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                  > > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                  > > >
                  > > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                  > > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                  > > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                  > > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                  > > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                  > > >
                  > > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                  > > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                  > > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                  > > >
                  > > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                  > > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                  > > > "Mahanta" topic.
                  > > >
                  > > > Etznab
                  > > >
                  > > > prometheus wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hello All,
                  > > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                  > > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                  > > >
                  > > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                  > > >
                  > > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                  > > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                  > > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                  > > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                  > > > true."
                  > > >
                  > > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                  > > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                  > > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                  > > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                  > > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                  > > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                  > > > "The Wisdom Notes."
                  > > >
                  > > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                  > > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                  > > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                  > > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                  > > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                  > > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                  > > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                  > > > believe in some universal force whether called
                  > > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                  > > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                  > > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                  > > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                  > > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                  > > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                  > > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                  > > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                  > > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                  > > > action" of his followers."
                  > > >
                  > > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                  > > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                  > > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                  > > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                  > > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                  > > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                  > > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                  > > >
                  > > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                  > > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                  > > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                  > > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                  > > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                  > > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                  > > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                  > > >
                  > > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                  > > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                  > > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                  > > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                  > > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                  > > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                  > > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                  > > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                  > > > title and definition.
                  > > >
                  > > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                  > > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                  > > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                  > > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                  > > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                  > > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                  > > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                  > > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                  > > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                  > > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                  > > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                  > > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                  > > > straight!
                  > > >
                  > > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                  > > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                  > > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                  > > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                  > > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                  > > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                  > > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                  > > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                  > > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                  > > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                  > > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                  > > > 970th LEM, was from.
                  > > >
                  > > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                  > > > wanted to present more details than what
                  > > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                  > > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                  > > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                  > > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                  > > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                  > > > and distortions.
                  > > >
                  > > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                  > > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                  > > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                  > > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                  > > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                  > > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                  > > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                  > > >
                  > > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                  > > > will deny this, but they share the same
                  > > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                  > > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                  > > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                  > > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                  > > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                  > > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                  > > > where ECKists have made fun of the
                  > > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                  > > > would seem that they are laughing
                  > > > at themselves and don't realize it!
                  > > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                  > > > to do critical thinking and Not being
                  > > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                  > > > still ECKists.
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus
                  >
                • prometheus_973
                  Hello All, It seems that all religions represent the original pyramid scheme via their hierarchies. Those ECK Vahanas are sales people who have a vested
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 6, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello All,
                    It seems that all religions represent
                    the original pyramid scheme via
                    their hierarchies. Those ECK Vahanas
                    are sales people who have a vested
                    interest in the company. They have
                    something to gain by selling their
                    products (Eckankar materials and
                    memberships). Their payment is
                    prestige, hope, belief, promises,
                    and initiation points while Klemp
                    and company acquire more money
                    and influence/power over their
                    subjects.

                    And, it's clear that ECKists can't
                    voice displeasure with the way
                    things are done because that would
                    be "negative."

                    Besides, there are repercussions
                    for voicing an honest assessment
                    of those "above" them. No ECKist
                    wants to be Black Listed on initiations
                    or on positions and titles within the
                    hierarchy. No one wants to be shunned,
                    but it does happen. These are just
                    part of the control and fear tactics
                    used. Thus, Silence, Service and
                    Surrender become the three keys
                    for Klemp's Success!

                    Prometheus




                    prometheus wrote:

                    Hi Ingrid and All,
                    Yes, all religions take our money
                    in one way or another. All of us pay
                    for their Holy Wars that they wage
                    upon the rest of us. Their members
                    also pay for future promises and to
                    feel good and all puffed-up, now,
                    while looking down their noses at
                    all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
                    interesting that so many of them
                    believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
                    dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
                    Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
                    that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
                    (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).

                    Prometheus

                    ctecvie wrote:

                    Hi Prometheus and all,

                    commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                    Religions pretend that they can give answers to
                    questions that cannot be answered. We need to
                    accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
                    And that's where religions come in and take (our)
                    money!

                    Ingrid


                    prometheus wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello All,
                    > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                    >
                    > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                    > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                    > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                    > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                    > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                    > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                    >
                    > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                    > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                    > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                    > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                    >
                    > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                    > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                    > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                    > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                    > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                    > eckankar.org
                    >
                    > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                    > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                    > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                    > lied as to how many times he traveled
                    > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                    > Twit ever travelled to India!
                    >
                    > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                    > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                    > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                    > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                    >
                    > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                    > conned people and that Klemp is still
                    > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                    > But, should anyone be surprised when
                    > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                    > gullible and loving people? Most people
                    > want to believe and they want to believe
                    > the best in whatever or whomever.
                    > Everyone has to figure out what category
                    > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                    > are manmade just as religions are.
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    >
                    > prometheus wrote:
                    > Hello Etznab and All,
                    > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                    > Living ECK Master" are historical
                    > transcriptions from private tapings
                    > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                    >
                    > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                    > made private tapings of his struggles
                    > before and after his acceptance
                    > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                    > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                    > who presented these tapes to Sri
                    > Darwin.)"
                    >
                    > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                    > Twitchell tells his story of being
                    > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                    > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                    > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                    > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                    > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                    > lie! Marman states that this was
                    > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                    > as Paul would have us to believe.
                    >
                    > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                    > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                    > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                    > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                    > his "grand achievements" to get
                    > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                    > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                    > (France) nor to India at age 15
                    > in 1923!
                    >
                    http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Twit states:
                    > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                    > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                    > six to seven months being taught
                    > and learning the works of ECK...
                    > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                    >
                    > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                    > the "Mahanta" once during these
                    > months!
                    >
                    > PT: "I had already been initiated
                    > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                    > the same as everybody else, the
                    > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                    >
                    > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                    > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                    > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                    > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                    > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                    > 1955-65. They even have the same
                    > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                    > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                    > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                    > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                    > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                    > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                    >
                    > ***
                    > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                    > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                    > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                    > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                    > Page.
                    >
                    > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                    > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                    > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                    > how PT's birthday corresponds
                    > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                    > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                    > ***
                    >
                    > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                    > Fourth, I went up through About
                    > the Seventh at this particular time
                    > (pg. 71)."
                    >
                    > ME: How does one go up to
                    > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                    > Wouldn't a person remember
                    > what initiation it was if it were
                    > true? This is just more proof
                    > that Twit was lying once again!
                    >
                    > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                    > on this trip, I followed him up
                    > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                    > and I got the finish (12th) of
                    > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                    >
                    > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                    > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                    > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                    > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                    > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                    > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                    > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                    > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                    > Jan. 1, 1969.
                    >
                    > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                    > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                    > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                    > right? I just can't figure out what it
                    > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    >
                    > etznab wrote:
                    >
                    > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                    > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                    >
                    > There were other early books that didn't mention
                    > it either, if I remember correctly.
                    >
                    >
                    > prometheus wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Etznab and All,
                    > I started another thread for this discussion.
                    > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                    > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                    > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                    > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                    > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                    > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                    > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                    > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                    > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                    > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                    > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                    > delude its followers.
                    >
                    > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                    > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                    > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                    > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                    > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                    > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                    > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                    > Four More Years that this information (if we
                    > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                    > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                    > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                    > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                    > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                    > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                    > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                    > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                    > gap, 1965-1969?
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    > Hello Etznab,
                    > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                    > Twitchell claims to have received the
                    > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                    > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                    > have trouble remembering the details
                    > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                    > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                    > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                    > created or started the "outer church"
                    > on this date. This way he'd remember
                    > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                    > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                    > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                    > history, on this date... his birthday!
                    >
                    > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                    > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                    > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                    > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                    > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                    > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                    > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                    > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                    > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                    > of God.
                    >
                    > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                    > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                    > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                    > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                    > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                    > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                    > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                    > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                    > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                    > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                    > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                    > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                    > a past track record of lying has been verified
                    > by Klemp.
                    >
                    > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                    > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                    > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                    > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                    > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                    > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                    > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                    > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                    > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                    >
                    > If one has paid attention they will see that
                    > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                    > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                    > as well. Just look at the differences and
                    > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                    > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                    > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                    > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                    > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                    > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                    > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                    >
                    > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                    > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                    > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                    > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                    > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                    > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    > etznab wrote:
                    >
                    > hat was interesting what you said about
                    > "Mahanta".
                    >
                    > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                    > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                    > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                    > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                    > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                    >
                    > Was that the date?
                    >
                    > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                    > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                    > for books after that date.
                    >
                    > The Flute of God came out in installments
                    > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                    > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                    > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                    > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                    > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                    > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                    >
                    > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                    > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                    > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                    > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                    > various other forms of "Master".
                    >
                    > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                    > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                    >
                    > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                    > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                    > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                    > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                    > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                    > The Flute of God).
                    >
                    > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                    > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                    > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                    > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                    > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                    >
                    > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                    > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                    >
                    > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                    > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                    > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                    > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                    > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                    >
                    > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                    > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                    > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                    >
                    > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                    > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                    > "Mahanta" topic.
                    >
                    > Etznab
                    >
                    > prometheus wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello All,
                    > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                    > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                    >
                    > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                    >
                    > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                    > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                    > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                    > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                    > true."
                    >
                    > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                    > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                    > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                    > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                    > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                    > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                    > "The Wisdom Notes."
                    >
                    > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                    > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                    > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                    > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                    > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                    > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                    > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                    > believe in some universal force whether called
                    > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                    > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                    > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                    > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                    > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                    > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                    > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                    > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                    > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                    > action" of his followers."
                    >
                    > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                    > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                    > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                    > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                    > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                    > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                    > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                    >
                    > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                    > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                    > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                    > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                    > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                    > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                    > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                    >
                    > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                    > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                    > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                    > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                    > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                    > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                    > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                    > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                    > title and definition.
                    >
                    > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                    > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                    > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                    > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                    > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                    > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                    > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                    > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                    > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                    > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                    > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                    > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                    > straight!
                    >
                    > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                    > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                    > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                    > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                    > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                    > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                    > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                    > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                    > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                    > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                    > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                    > 970th LEM, was from.
                    >
                    > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                    > wanted to present more details than what
                    > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                    > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                    > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                    > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                    > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                    > and distortions.
                    >
                    > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                    > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                    > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                    > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                    > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                    > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                    > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                    >
                    > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                    > will deny this, but they share the same
                    > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                    > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                    > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                    > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                    > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                    > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                    > where ECKists have made fun of the
                    > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                    > would seem that they are laughing
                    > at themselves and don't realize it!
                    > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                    > to do critical thinking and Not being
                    > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                    > still ECKists.
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                  • prometheus_973
                    Twitchell s Last Mystic World Article July-August-September 1971 [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM, pages 251-254] Up until his last days Twitchell was still
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 6, 2010
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                      Twitchell's Last Mystic World Article
                      July-August-September 1971
                      [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
                      pages 251-254]

                      Up until his last days Twitchell was
                      still conning people and rewriting
                      his and ECKankar's history (in third
                      person) in order to give validation
                      to his outlandish claims/lies/dogma.
                      And, for some reason people believed
                      it! However, Why don't some of these
                      same people who bought into it then,
                      don't now? Where's Klemp's Virgin
                      Birth that would qualify him as a
                      "Mahanta?" Klemp was born the
                      second child. Is Twitchell lying about
                      these details?


                      "During the early part of the seventeenth
                      century, four ECK spiritual masters
                      who serve in the spiritual hierarchy,
                      met in the ancient sacred city of Agam
                      Des in the Himalayan Mountains.

                      They were:

                      Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam, the
                      great deity of the fifth world,
                      commonly called the Soul Plane;

                      Rebazar Tarzs, emissary for the
                      ECK in the physical universe today;

                      Gopal Das, spiritual master at the
                      Golden Wisdom Temple on the Astral
                      Plane and

                      Yaubl Sacabi, spiritual head of
                      the ancient city of Agam Des."

                      ME: BTW- Ramaj is actually Rama.
                      And, in the Spiritual Notebook, 10th
                      printing, Twitchell calls him Ramaji
                      on page 196.

                      PT: "They met to discuss the birth
                      of the coming AVATAR for the twentieth
                      century [himself, Paul Twitchell], Peddar
                      Zaskq. Born in the Caucasian mountains
                      during the Seventeenth Century, he lived
                      and was trained to the heights of spiritual
                      perfection."

                      ME: And yet, even when he was reborn
                      as Paul Twitchell he had no knowledge
                      of the "Mahanta" Consciousness nor
                      for 18 years After his 12th Initiation,
                      by Rebazar (1951), to ECK Master status!

                      PT: "Given several years in the Art
                      of Silence and Darkness he gained
                      Enlightenment in Preparation for his
                      return to the Twentieth Century. When
                      the time came for his demise, he passed
                      away still looking the same youthful
                      appearance yet beyond the normal
                      age of man."

                      ME: Was Peddar's study in the "Art
                      of Darkness" preparation for becoming
                      a liar and deceiver and a practitioner
                      of the Black Arts as a Black Magician?
                      It seems this was a Freudian slip on
                      PT's part.

                      PT: "He was prepared for entering
                      into the world again to take up his
                      mission. The four great ECK Masters
                      met once more, but this time at the
                      Sakipura Monastery in the vast
                      mountains of the northern Himalayas.

                      This time the ancient prediction that
                      a New World Avatar would be born
                      on a great body of water, near the
                      shores where horses grazed was
                      to become true. This time Peddar
                      Zaskq was born on a Mississippi
                      river packet enroute to New Orleans.

                      The Miraculous Birth took place
                      just below the city of Natchez,
                      Mississippi near a stock farm.
                      At the time of his birth, a great
                      earthquake shook the Mississippi
                      valley, forming a vast body of
                      lakes in western Tennessee.

                      There appeared a BLUE CARNATION
                      in a vase on a night table by the
                      mother's bed."

                      ME: This Blue Carnation symbol
                      of the Mahanta Consciousness
                      was created by Twitchell after-the-
                      fact with 20/20 hindsight. This is
                      another rewrite by Twitchell. If he
                      did have the "Mahanta Consciousness"
                      then why didn't he mention it prior
                      to 1969? This 1971 pub is to rectify
                      that mistake and act as a cover-up.

                      PT: "The work of the Hierarchy
                      was completed except for the training
                      of Peddar Zaskq. It was immediately
                      arranged for him to be given a home
                      in which to be raised.

                      His Foster Parents raised him in a
                      small souther river town [Paducah,
                      Kentucky]. He adopted their name
                      and became known as Paul Twitchell
                      in the Twentieth Century."

                      ME: Isn't this a different story from
                      what Klemp has mentioned? Klemp
                      and Marman, both, have suggested
                      that Paul's father had an affair and
                      that he was allowed to take Paul and
                      raise him. Thus, the other children
                      were Paul's half-brothers and sisters
                      and his mother was his step-mother.
                      Paul told this lie in order to have a
                      virgin birth like Jesus and other
                      Avatars, and to establish the "Blue
                      Carnation" of the Mahanta connection.
                      This is, also, why Darwin stated that
                      Paul was the only Mahanta for the
                      next thousand years. DG didn't have
                      a "virgin birth" and neither did Klemp!

                      PT: "He [Paul Twitchell aka Peddar
                      Zaskq] looked and acted and was
                      raised accordingly like any American
                      child, except for his enormous knowledge
                      and ability to do Soul Travel."

                      ME: Once again, Twit is selling himself.
                      Snake oil anyone? It's "blue" too!

                      PT: "None knew much about him for
                      he kept to himself. His companion in
                      these years was his Stepsister who
                      gave him much of his knowledge on
                      Soul Travel. She acted as the instrument
                      through which the divine power flowed
                      to open his consciousness to God
                      again, and acted as his guide until
                      ECK Masters were able to take over."

                      ME: So, I wonder what initiation level
                      Paul's stepsister (Kay-Dee) was? That's
                      probably another story (lie). But, Wow!
                      Paul was really unloading a pile of B.S.
                      wasn't he! It's no wonder Klemp had Peter
                      Skelsky round up and destroy all of these
                      copies of "Difficulties of Becoming the
                      Living ECK Master." Does Marman believe
                      that the true, one and only, Mahanta
                      has to be born of a Virgin like Twitchell
                      states? Or, does Marman think Paul was
                      lying about his Virgin Birth like he did
                      with "Paris."

                      PT: "The rest of his story is told in
                      fragments of his first visit to Paris
                      to be with his stepsister, who was
                      in training to be an artist. It was here
                      that he [Paul/Peddar] first met Sudar
                      [Kirpal] Singh, an ECK Master, and
                      followed him to India with his stepsister
                      to study ECK[ankar].

                      Later as a young man, he returned
                      to India and set out to find Rebazar
                      Tarzs, the ancient Tibetan ECK Master,
                      near Darjeeling. It was here that the
                      contact was made with the great ECK
                      emissary and his training taken over
                      to prepare him for world leadership
                      in spiritual affairs. July-August-September
                      1971"

                      Prometheus


                      prometheus wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello All,
                      > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                      >
                      > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                      > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                      > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                      > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                      > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                      > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                      >
                      > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                      > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                      > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                      > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                      >
                      > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                      > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                      > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                      > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                      > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                      > eckankar.org
                      >
                      > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                      > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                      > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                      > lied as to how many times he traveled
                      > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                      > Twit ever travelled to India!
                      >
                      > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                      > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                      > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                      > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                      >
                      > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                      > conned people and that Klemp is still
                      > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                      > But, should anyone be surprised when
                      > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                      > gullible and loving people? Most people
                      > want to believe and they want to believe
                      > the best in whatever or whomever.
                      > Everyone has to figure out what category
                      > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                      > are manmade just as religions are.
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                      >
                      > prometheus wrote:
                      > Hello Etznab and All,
                      > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                      > Living ECK Master" are historical
                      > transcriptions from private tapings
                      > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                      >
                      > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                      > made private tapings of his struggles
                      > before and after his acceptance
                      > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                      > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                      > who presented these tapes to Sri
                      > Darwin.)"
                      >
                      > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                      > Twitchell tells his story of being
                      > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                      > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                      > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                      > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                      > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                      > lie! Marman states that this was
                      > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                      > as Paul would have us to believe.
                      >
                      > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                      > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                      > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                      > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                      > his "grand achievements" to get
                      > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                      > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                      > (France) nor to India at age 15
                      > in 1923!
                      >
                      http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Twit states:
                      > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                      > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                      > six to seven months being taught
                      > and learning the works of ECK...
                      > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                      >
                      > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                      > the "Mahanta" once during these
                      > months!
                      >
                      > PT: "I had already been initiated
                      > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                      > the same as everybody else, the
                      > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                      >
                      > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                      > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                      > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                      > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                      > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                      > 1955-65. They even have the same
                      > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                      > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                      > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                      > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                      > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                      > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                      >
                      > ***
                      > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                      > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                      > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                      > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                      > Page.
                      >
                      > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                      > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                      > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                      > how PT's birthday corresponds
                      > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                      > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                      > ***
                      >
                      > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                      > Fourth, I went up through About
                      > the Seventh at this particular time
                      > (pg. 71)."
                      >
                      > ME: How does one go up to
                      > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                      > Wouldn't a person remember
                      > what initiation it was if it were
                      > true? This is just more proof
                      > that Twit was lying once again!
                      >
                      > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                      > on this trip, I followed him up
                      > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                      > and I got the finish (12th) of
                      > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                      >
                      > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                      > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                      > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                      > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                      > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                      > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                      > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                      > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                      > Jan. 1, 1969.
                      >
                      > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                      > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                      > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                      > right? I just can't figure out what it
                      > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                      >
                      > etznab wrote:
                      >
                      > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                      > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                      >
                      > There were other early books that didn't mention
                      > it either, if I remember correctly.
                      >
                      >
                      > prometheus wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Etznab and All,
                      > I started another thread for this discussion.
                      > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                      > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                      > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                      > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                      > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                      > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                      > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                      > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                      > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                      > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                      > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                      > delude its followers.
                      >
                      > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                      > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                      > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                      > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                      > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                      > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                      > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                      > Four More Years that this information (if we
                      > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                      > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                      > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                      > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                      > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                      > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                      > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                      > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                      > gap, 1965-1969?
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                      > Hello Etznab,
                      > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                      > Twitchell claims to have received the
                      > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                      > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                      > have trouble remembering the details
                      > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                      > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                      > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                      > created or started the "outer church"
                      > on this date. This way he'd remember
                      > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                      > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                      > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                      > history, on this date... his birthday!
                      >
                      > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                      > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                      > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                      > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                      > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                      > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                      > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                      > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                      > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                      > of God.
                      >
                      > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                      > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                      > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                      > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                      > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                      > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                      > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                      > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                      > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                      > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                      > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                      > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                      > a past track record of lying has been verified
                      > by Klemp.
                      >
                      > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                      > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                      > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                      > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                      > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                      > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                      > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                      > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                      > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                      >
                      > If one has paid attention they will see that
                      > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                      > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                      > as well. Just look at the differences and
                      > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                      > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                      > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                      > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                      > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                      > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                      > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                      >
                      > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                      > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                      > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                      > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                      > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                      > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                      > etznab wrote:
                      >
                      > hat was interesting what you said about
                      > "Mahanta".
                      >
                      > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                      > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                      > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                      > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                      > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                      >
                      > Was that the date?
                      >
                      > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                      > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                      > for books after that date.
                      >
                      > The Flute of God came out in installments
                      > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                      > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                      > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                      > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                      > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                      > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                      >
                      > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                      > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                      > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                      > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                      > various other forms of "Master".
                      >
                      > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                      > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                      >
                      > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                      > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                      > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                      > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                      > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                      > The Flute of God).
                      >
                      > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                      > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                      > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                      > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                      > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                      >
                      > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                      > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                      >
                      > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                      > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                      > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                      > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                      > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                      >
                      > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                      > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                      > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                      >
                      > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                      > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                      > "Mahanta" topic.
                      >
                      > Etznab
                      >
                      > prometheus wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello All,
                      > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                      > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                      >
                      > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                      >
                      > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                      > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                      > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                      > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                      > true."
                      >
                      > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                      > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                      > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                      > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                      > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                      > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                      > "The Wisdom Notes."
                      >
                      > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                      > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                      > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                      > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                      > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                      > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                      > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                      > believe in some universal force whether called
                      > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                      > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                      > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                      > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                      > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                      > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                      > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                      > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                      > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                      > action" of his followers."
                      >
                      > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                      > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                      > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                      > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                      > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                      > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                      > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                      >
                      > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                      > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                      > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                      > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                      > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                      > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                      > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                      >
                      > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                      > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                      > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                      > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                      > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                      > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                      > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                      > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                      > title and definition.
                      >
                      > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                      > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                      > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                      > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                      > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                      > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                      > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                      > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                      > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                      > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                      > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                      > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                      > straight!
                      >
                      > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                      > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                      > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                      > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                      > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                      > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                      > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                      > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                      > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                      > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                      > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                      > 970th LEM, was from.
                      >
                      > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                      > wanted to present more details than what
                      > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                      > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                      > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                      > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                      > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                      > and distortions.
                      >
                      > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                      > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                      > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                      > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                      > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                      > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                      > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                      >
                      > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                      > will deny this, but they share the same
                      > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                      > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                      > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                      > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                      > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                      > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                      > where ECKists have made fun of the
                      > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                      > would seem that they are laughing
                      > at themselves and don't realize it!
                      > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                      > to do critical thinking and Not being
                      > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                      > still ECKists.
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                    • prometheus_973
                      Here s more to verify the Virgin Birth requirement for the Mahanta. This can be found in the Holy Books of ECKankar, The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Books One & Two
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 7, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Here's more to verify the "Virgin
                        Birth" requirement for the Mahanta.
                        This can be found in the Holy Books
                        of ECKankar, "The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
                        Books One & Two" (copyright 2000)
                        pages 111-112. Or, check the index
                        of the Shariyat One under "Mahanta,
                        birth of."

                        BTW- The following information is
                        found in Book One of the Shariyat.

                        The Foreword, on page x, states:

                        "Book One is the first section of these
                        works, which was dictated by FUBBI
                        QUANTZ, the great ECK Master who
                        serves at the Katsupari Monastery
                        in Northern Tibet.

                        ME: Remember, too, Klemp was the
                        "SECOND" Child Born to his mother.

                        "The Mahanta is Always born near
                        or on a large body of water. His
                        Birth is Always Mysterious, and
                        men of ordinary birth Do Not Know
                        his Origin. NOR does any man know
                        who his sires might be, their true
                        names, or their true origin."

                        ME: Since we know Klemp's origins
                        (the Fremont, WI. area) and who his
                        parents were (he spoke of them in
                        his books and these were his REAL
                        parents) we can see that, already,
                        Klemp Doesn't fulfill the requirements
                        listed above.

                        "The ECK enters into the womb
                        of a VIRGIN, the Queen of Heaven,
                        who has submitted to the True Spirit
                        of the universe. The Consciousness
                        of the Mahanta State is planted as
                        the seed and carefully nurtured in
                        the womb. When the embodiment
                        of flesh is brought into this world,
                        a man-child is born."

                        As I pointed out, Klemp had an
                        older brother, Dwayne, therefore
                        HK could Not have had a "Virgin
                        Birth" and according to Fubbi, and
                        this "Holy" Shariyat, Klemp Does
                        Not meet this criteria either.

                        On the other hand, Klemp had
                        pointed out that Twitchell had
                        lied in 1935, at the age of 27,
                        to get into Who's Who. It could
                        be that Twitchell was still lying,
                        here, in 1970 when this Shariyat
                        One was Copyrighted. However,
                        this would simply point out that
                        everything (the ECK Masters, the
                        Mahanta, and the whole foundation
                        of ECKankar is built upon is lies!

                        So, ECKists either have to turn a
                        Blind-Eye to this, as they have in
                        the past, or they have to ask the
                        hard questions:

                        1) Is Twitchell, or Fubbi, lying about
                        the "Virgin Birth" Mahanta Requirements?
                        If Paul is lying then he's, also, lying
                        about Fubbi's existence!

                        OR

                        2) If Twitchell, or Fubbi, were telling
                        the Truth about the Mahanta needing
                        to be Born by a Virgin then Klemp
                        is lying about being the Mahanta!

                        Really, is Eckankar's Holy Book
                        wrong? Or, did "Fubbi" distort the
                        truth? Is Fubbi another lie of Paul's?
                        What else is a distortion? Klemp
                        can't claim that Fubbi was using
                        "artistic license" or can he? Klemp
                        seems to exaggerate and twist facts
                        as much as, or more, than Twitchell.

                        BTW-Catch-22 is double-speak
                        and means that HK can change the
                        rules, or the interpretation of the
                        rules anytime he wants. His "Con"
                        is higher than yours, thus, you wouldn't
                        understand even he he tried to explain
                        it because he has to "lower" it by
                        using 4th Mental Plane thoughts
                        and words. It's a blank check.

                        Yes, Klemp Did have the opportunity
                        to edit this "Virgin Birth" Mahanta
                        requirement out in 2000, but didn't!
                        Apparently, Klemp doesn't have the
                        need to do so. After all, ECKists will
                        believe anything he tells them.

                        Klemp did come up with the "Mahanta-
                        in-Training" excuse to explain that
                        Darwin (972th LEM) was Not a true
                        or "Full" (14th) Mahanta and, therefore,
                        it was okay for him (a 12th) and his
                        EK "Board" to depose/dispose of him.

                        However, Klemp can't explain away
                        the "Virgin Birth" scripture requirement.
                        Unless, Klemp really isn't a 14th "Full"
                        Mahanta and is still "in-training" for
                        this position for another future lifetime
                        just as Peddar Zaskq, supposedly, had
                        to do. Why has Klemp lied about being
                        a "Full" 14th Mahanta? Vanity!

                        Perhaps Klemp, too, has had the Rod
                        of ECK Power "BURN" him for not letting
                        go years earlier when he should have.
                        IMO (from an EK standpoint)-HK fell
                        from Grace circa 1990 and is, now, just
                        acting out the role with the support of
                        Joan and other cohorts at the ESC.

                        The truth is that they (Twitchell, Gross,
                        and Klemp) have all acted "AS IF" their
                        religious LEM/Mahanta roles were
                        "Spiritual." It wasn't/isn't! Eckankar is
                        just another religious con that attracts
                        those with a "New Age" belief system.
                        Even New Age people, who have turned
                        their backs on the large mass religions,
                        need something.Therefore, Eckankar
                        is an alternative for those with alternative
                        beliefs. People are social animals and
                        have a strong need to belong to some
                        group.

                        However, a religious "group consciousness,"
                        shaped by the leader, impedes one's
                        individual search and progress by lowering
                        it through conformity! It's rather ironic
                        that ECKists, and other New Agers, tend
                        to view themselves as "Non-Conformists."
                        Yet, ECKists, end up following rules, laws,
                        Zoas, Guidelines, and Scripture and anything
                        that Klemp tells them. Where is the Spiritual
                        Freedom there, or in needing to pay an
                        annual "membership" in order to receive
                        and maintain one's "spiritual" advancement
                        (initiations)? See! It all a con! But what choice
                        do ECKists have when they are too weak-
                        minded via fear tactics and brain-washing?

                        However, once they do leave Eckankar
                        they will feel a burden lifted from their
                        shoulders. The stress will leave! They
                        will now have increased moments of
                        "Contentment." And, a new Clarity of
                        mind and of Soul will be experienced
                        and revealed.

                        Prometheus


                        ***
                        Twitchell's Last Mystic World Article
                        July-August-September 1971
                        [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
                        pages 251-254]

                        Up until his last days Twitchell was
                        still conning people and rewriting
                        his and ECKankar's history (in third
                        person) in order to give validation
                        to his outlandish claims/lies/dogma.
                        And, for some reason people believed
                        it! However, Why don't some of these
                        same people who bought into it then,
                        don't now? Where's Klemp's Virgin
                        Birth that would qualify him as a
                        "Mahanta?" Klemp was born the
                        second child. Is Twitchell lying about
                        these details?


                        "During the early part of the seventeenth
                        century, four ECK spiritual masters
                        who serve in the spiritual hierarchy,
                        met in the ancient sacred city of Agam
                        Des in the Himalayan Mountains.

                        They were:

                        Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam, the
                        great deity of the fifth world,
                        commonly called the Soul Plane;

                        Rebazar Tarzs, emissary for the
                        ECK in the physical universe today;

                        Gopal Das, spiritual master at the
                        Golden Wisdom Temple on the Astral
                        Plane and

                        Yaubl Sacabi, spiritual head of
                        the ancient city of Agam Des."

                        ME: BTW- Ramaj is actually Rama.
                        And, in the Spiritual Notebook, 10th
                        printing, Twitchell calls him Ramaji
                        on page 196.

                        PT: "They met to discuss the birth
                        of the coming AVATAR for the twentieth
                        century [himself, Paul Twitchell], Peddar
                        Zaskq. Born in the Caucasian mountains
                        during the Seventeenth Century, he lived
                        and was trained to the heights of spiritual
                        perfection."

                        ME: And yet, even when he was reborn
                        as Paul Twitchell he had no knowledge
                        of the "Mahanta" Consciousness nor
                        for 18 years After his 12th Initiation,
                        by Rebazar (1951), to ECK Master status!

                        PT: "Given several years in the Art
                        of Silence and Darkness he gained
                        Enlightenment in Preparation for his
                        return to the Twentieth Century. When
                        the time came for his demise, he passed
                        away still looking the same youthful
                        appearance yet beyond the normal
                        age of man."

                        ME: Was Peddar's study in the "Art
                        of Darkness" preparation for becoming
                        a liar and deceiver and a practitioner
                        of the Black Arts as a Black Magician?
                        It seems this was a Freudian slip on
                        PT's part.

                        PT: "He was prepared for entering
                        into the world again to take up his
                        mission. The four great ECK Masters
                        met once more, but this time at the
                        Sakipura Monastery in the vast
                        mountains of the northern Himalayas.

                        This time the ancient prediction that
                        a New World Avatar would be born
                        on a great body of water, near the
                        shores where horses grazed was
                        to become true. This time Peddar
                        Zaskq was born on a Mississippi
                        river packet enroute to New Orleans.

                        The Miraculous Birth took place
                        just below the city of Natchez,
                        Mississippi near a stock farm.
                        At the time of his birth, a great
                        earthquake shook the Mississippi
                        valley, forming a vast body of
                        lakes in western Tennessee.

                        There appeared a BLUE CARNATION
                        in a vase on a night table by the
                        mother's bed."

                        ME: This Blue Carnation symbol
                        of the Mahanta Consciousness
                        was created by Twitchell after-the-
                        fact with 20/20 hindsight. This is
                        another rewrite by Twitchell. If he
                        did have the "Mahanta Consciousness"
                        then why didn't he mention it prior
                        to 1969? This 1971 pub is to rectify
                        that mistake and act as a cover-up.

                        PT: "The work of the Hierarchy
                        was completed except for the training
                        of Peddar Zaskq. It was immediately
                        arranged for him to be given a home
                        in which to be raised.

                        His Foster Parents raised him in a
                        small souther river town [Paducah,
                        Kentucky]. He adopted their name
                        and became known as Paul Twitchell
                        in the Twentieth Century."

                        ME: Isn't this a different story from
                        what Klemp has mentioned? Klemp
                        and Marman, both, have suggested
                        that Paul's father had an affair and
                        that he was allowed to take Paul and
                        raise him. Thus, the other children
                        were Paul's half-brothers and sisters
                        and his mother was his step-mother.
                        Paul told this lie in order to have a
                        virgin birth like Jesus and other
                        Avatars, and to establish the "Blue
                        Carnation" of the Mahanta connection.
                        This is, also, why Darwin stated that
                        Paul was the only Mahanta for the
                        next thousand years. DG didn't have
                        a "virgin birth" and neither did Klemp!

                        PT: "He [Paul Twitchell aka Peddar
                        Zaskq] looked and acted and was
                        raised accordingly like any American
                        child, except for his enormous knowledge
                        and ability to do Soul Travel."

                        ME: Once again, Twit is selling himself.
                        Snake oil anyone? It's "blue" too!

                        PT: "None knew much about him for
                        he kept to himself. His companion in
                        these years was his Stepsister who
                        gave him much of his knowledge on
                        Soul Travel. She acted as the instrument
                        through which the divine power flowed
                        to open his consciousness to God
                        again, and acted as his guide until
                        ECK Masters were able to take over."

                        ME: So, I wonder what initiation level
                        Paul's stepsister (Kay-Dee) was? That's
                        probably another story (lie). But, Wow!
                        Paul was really unloading a pile of B.S.
                        wasn't he! It's no wonder Klemp had Peter
                        Skelsky round up and destroy all of these
                        copies of "Difficulties of Becoming the
                        Living ECK Master." Does Marman believe
                        that the true, one and only, Mahanta
                        has to be born of a Virgin like Twitchell
                        states? Or, does Marman think Paul was
                        lying about his Virgin Birth like he did
                        with "Paris."

                        PT: "The rest of his story is told in
                        fragments of his first visit to Paris
                        to be with his stepsister, who was
                        in training to be an artist. It was here
                        that he [Paul/Peddar] first met Sudar
                        [Kirpal] Singh, an ECK Master, and
                        followed him to India with his stepsister
                        to study ECK[ankar].

                        Later as a young man, he returned
                        to India and set out to find Rebazar
                        Tarzs, the ancient Tibetan ECK Master,
                        near Darjeeling. It was here that the
                        contact was made with the great ECK
                        emissary and his training taken over
                        to prepare him for world leadership
                        in spiritual affairs. July-August-September
                        1971"

                        Prometheus


                        prometheus wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello All,
                        > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies
                        from Difficulties Of Becoming the LEM:
                        >
                        > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                        > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                        > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                        > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                        > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                        > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                        >
                        > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                        > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                        > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                        > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                        >
                        > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                        > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                        > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                        > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                        > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                        > eckankar.org
                        >
                        > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                        > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                        > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                        > lied as to how many times he traveled
                        > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                        > Twit ever travelled to India!
                        >
                        > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                        > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                        > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                        > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                        >
                        > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                        > conned people and that Klemp is still
                        > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                        > But, should anyone be surprised when
                        > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                        > gullible and loving people? Most people
                        > want to believe and they want to believe
                        > the best in whatever or whomever.
                        > Everyone has to figure out what category
                        > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                        > are manmade just as religions are.
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        >
                        > prometheus wrote:

                        > Hello Etznab and All,
                        > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                        > Living ECK Master" are Historical
                        > Transcriptions from Private Tapings
                        > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                        >
                        > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                        > made private tapings of his struggles
                        > before and after his acceptance
                        > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                        > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                        > who presented these tapes to Sri
                        > Darwin.)"
                        >
                        > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                        > Twitchell tells his story of being
                        > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                        > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                        > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                        > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                        > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                        > lie! Marman states that this was
                        > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                        > as Paul would have us to believe.
                        >
                        > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                        > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                        > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                        > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                        > his "grand achievements" to get
                        > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                        > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                        > (France) nor to India at age 15
                        > in 1923!
                        >
                        http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Twit states:
                        > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                        > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                        > six to seven months being taught
                        > and learning the works of ECK...
                        > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                        >
                        > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                        > the "Mahanta" once during these
                        > months!
                        >
                        > PT: "I had already been initiated
                        > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                        > the same as everybody else, the
                        > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                        >
                        > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                        > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                        > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                        > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                        > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                        > 1955-65. They even have the same
                        > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                        > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                        > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                        > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                        > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                        > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                        >
                        > ***
                        > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                        > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                        > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                        > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                        > Page.
                        >
                        > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                        > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                        > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                        > how PT's birthday corresponds
                        > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                        > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                        > ***
                        >
                        > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                        > Fourth, I went up through About
                        > the Seventh at this particular time
                        > (pg. 71)."
                        >
                        > ME: How does one go up to
                        > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                        > Wouldn't a person remember
                        > what initiation it was if it were
                        > true? This is just more proof
                        > that Twit was lying once again!
                        >
                        > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                        > on this trip, I followed him up
                        > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                        > and I got the finish (12th) of
                        > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                        >
                        > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                        > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                        > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                        > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                        > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                        > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                        > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                        > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                        > Jan. 1, 1969.
                        >
                        > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                        > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                        > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                        > right? I just can't figure out what it
                        > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        >
                        > etznab wrote:
                        >
                        > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                        > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                        >
                        > There were other early books that didn't mention
                        > it either, if I remember correctly.
                        >
                        >
                        > prometheus wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Etznab and All,
                        > I started another thread for this discussion.
                        > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                        > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                        > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                        > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                        > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                        > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                        > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                        > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                        > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                        > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                        > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                        > delude its followers.
                        >
                        > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                        > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                        > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                        > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                        > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                        > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                        > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                        > Four More Years that this information (if we
                        > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                        > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                        > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                        > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                        > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                        > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                        > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                        > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                        > gap, 1965-1969?
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        > Hello Etznab,
                        > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                        > Twitchell claims to have received the
                        > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                        > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                        > have trouble remembering the details
                        > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                        > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                        > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                        > created or started the "outer church"
                        > on this date. This way he'd remember
                        > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                        > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                        > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                        > history, on this date... his birthday!
                        >
                        > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                        > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                        > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                        > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                        > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                        > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                        > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                        > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                        > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                        > of God.
                        >
                        > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                        > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                        > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                        > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                        > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                        > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                        > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                        > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                        > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                        > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                        > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                        > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                        > a past track record of lying has been verified
                        > by Klemp.
                        >
                        > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                        > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                        > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                        > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                        > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                        > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                        > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                        > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                        > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                        >
                        > If one has paid attention they will see that
                        > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                        > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                        > as well. Just look at the differences and
                        > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                        > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                        > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                        > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                        > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                        > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                        > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                        >
                        > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                        > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                        > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                        > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                        > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                        > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        > etznab wrote:
                        >
                        > hat was interesting what you said about
                        > "Mahanta".
                        >
                        > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                        > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                        > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                        > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                        > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                        >
                        > Was that the date?
                        >
                        > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                        > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                        > for books after that date.
                        >
                        > The Flute of God came out in installments
                        > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                        > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                        > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                        > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                        > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                        > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                        >
                        > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                        > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                        > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                        > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                        > various other forms of "Master".
                        >
                        > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                        > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                        >
                        > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                        > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                        > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                        > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                        > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                        > The Flute of God).
                        >
                        > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                        > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                        > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                        > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                        > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                        >
                        > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                        > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                        >
                        > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                        > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                        > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                        > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                        > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                        >
                        > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                        > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                        > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                        >
                        > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                        > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                        > "Mahanta" topic.
                        >
                        > Etznab
                        >
                        > prometheus wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello All,
                        > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                        > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                        >
                        > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                        >
                        > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                        > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                        > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                        > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                        > true."
                        >
                        > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                        > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                        > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                        > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                        > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                        > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                        > "The Wisdom Notes."
                        >
                        > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                        > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                        > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                        > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                        > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                        > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                        > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                        > believe in some universal force whether called
                        > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                        > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                        > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                        > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                        > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                        > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                        > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                        > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                        > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                        > action" of his followers."
                        >
                        > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                        > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                        > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                        > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                        > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                        > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                        > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                        >
                        > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                        > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                        > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                        > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                        > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                        > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                        > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                        >
                        > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                        > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                        > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                        > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                        > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                        > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                        > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                        > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                        > title and definition.
                        >
                        > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                        > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                        > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                        > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                        > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                        > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                        > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                        > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                        > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                        > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                        > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                        > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                        > straight!
                        >
                        > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                        > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                        > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                        > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                        > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                        > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                        > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                        > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                        > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                        > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                        > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                        > 970th LEM, was from.
                        >
                        > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                        > wanted to present more details than what
                        > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                        > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                        > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                        > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                        > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                        > and distortions.
                        >
                        > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                        > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                        > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                        > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                        > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                        > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                        > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                        >
                        > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                        > will deny this, but they share the same
                        > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                        > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                        > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                        > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                        > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                        > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                        > where ECKists have made fun of the
                        > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                        > would seem that they are laughing
                        > at themselves and don't realize it!
                        > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                        > to do critical thinking and Not being
                        > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                        > still ECKists.
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                      • prometheus_973
                        Twitchell s manuscript was a work in progress with rewrites and tweaking during his time (1955-65) spent with his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh. Klemp even
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 7, 2010
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                          Twitchell's manuscript was a work
                          in progress with rewrites and tweaking
                          during his time (1955-65) spent with
                          his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh.

                          Klemp even mentions Kirpal on
                          Eckankar.org and his involvement
                          with The Tiger's Fang manuscript
                          not long before it was published.
                          Read the two sections titled "Struggle
                          for Mastership" and "Beginnings
                          of Eckankar" listed below.

                          http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

                          Interesting too that Klemp mentions
                          Kirpal Singh by name 15 times during
                          this "Behind the Scenes with Paul Twitchell"
                          while only mentioning former 970th LEM
                          Sudar Singh's name 6 times! Count and see!

                          Here, in Chapter 8, Twitchell has Sugmad
                          speaking to him and Kirpal (Rebazar). This
                          is just one of the problems that Kirpal had
                          with this manuscript. Anyway, here are some
                          quotes:

                          Sugmad:

                          "You are also God! You are myself! I!

                          1) "My First Principle is that this true cosmos IS!

                          2) "My Second Principle is that there is no
                          God but me, I; not me as you know, but
                          that which is within you, the Self. Therefore
                          all is God, include the lowest of life.

                          3) "My Third Principle is that to have divinity,
                          you must dwell in the center of my Light
                          and Sound; and since Light is God, and God
                          is Light then IT is everywhere, and has No
                          Focus except in each Soul. Thus I must dwell
                          in the Light within Me!

                          4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth is
                          greater than the Lie, and truth is never greater
                          than No truth, for the latter is the shining ideal
                          which God holds before the Soul in his true kingdom!

                          ***
                          It seems to me that Paul, at first, was wanting
                          to share some of his views and to become a
                          real writer with a book. Gail talked him into
                          making it into a religion when interest picked
                          up at his book promotions and people started
                          to look to Twit as their modern day saviour/prophet!
                          Klemp merely positioned himself at the ESC
                          and inherited the LEM title as Darwin's writer.

                          Prometheus



                          Hello Etznab and All,
                          I started another thread for this discussion.
                          Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                          1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                          until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                          up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                          that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                          Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                          and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                          Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                          one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                          editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                          fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                          delude its followers.

                          Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                          Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                          of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                          all of those secret teachings and when he made
                          PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                          mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                          one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                          Four More Years that this information (if we
                          believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                          Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                          the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                          it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                          the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                          the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                          are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                          some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                          gap, 1965-1969?

                          Prometheus


                          Hello Etznab,
                          It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                          Twitchell claims to have received the
                          Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                          he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                          have trouble remembering the details
                          of their lies. That's why Twit made
                          the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                          his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                          created or started the "outer church"
                          on this date. This way he'd remember
                          it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                          is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                          every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                          history, on this date... his birthday!

                          PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                          (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                          REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                          these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                          The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                          didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                          due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                          and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                          given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                          of God.

                          As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                          This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                          1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                          name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                          Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                          did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                          publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                          to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                          as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                          even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                          in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                          get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                          a past track record of lying has been verified
                          by Klemp.

                          The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                          but let's remember that Klemp states that
                          Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                          Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                          mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                          that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                          there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                          in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                          "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

                          If one has paid attention they will see that
                          Klemp has not only given new covers to
                          Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                          as well. Just look at the differences and
                          changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                          Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                          to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                          current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                          sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                          works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                          the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

                          Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                          ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                          included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                          these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                          How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                          of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

                          Prometheus




                          etznab wrote:

                          hat was interesting what you said about
                          "Mahanta".

                          Just the other day I was trying to remember
                          exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                          experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                          and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                          Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

                          Was that the date?

                          I assumed the writing about it would have to
                          be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                          for books after that date.

                          The Flute of God came out in installments
                          in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                          to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                          have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                          out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                          1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                          to Darwin Gross, I think.

                          1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                          (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                          took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                          mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                          various other forms of "Master".

                          All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                          In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

                          It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                          "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                          By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                          The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                          I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                          The Flute of God).

                          The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                          from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                          he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                          one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                          "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

                          The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                          "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

                          OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                          does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                          of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                          anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                          it at a seminar and it's on tape?

                          I'd like to find out when that experience was
                          mentioned and what was said about it to get
                          an idea about what "history" might exist.

                          Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                          I thought this query could be relevant to the
                          "Mahanta" topic.

                          Etznab

                          prometheus wrote:

                          Hello All,
                          I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                          Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

                          Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

                          In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                          condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                          delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                          1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                          true."

                          ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                          Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                          In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                          January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                          see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                          the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                          "The Wisdom Notes."

                          Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                          Twitchell stole even the name from another
                          spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                          in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                          was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                          of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                          form This was easy to accept, for most people
                          believe in some universal force whether called
                          "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                          associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                          and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                          of two words, he was able to transform himself
                          into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                          meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                          "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                          and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                          by making it part of "every word, thought and
                          action" of his followers."

                          ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                          be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                          in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                          Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                          Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                          in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                          create this term/position for himself until 1969.

                          BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                          by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                          Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                          used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                          (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                          that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                          was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

                          The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                          on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                          Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                          This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                          to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                          up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                          reproach and regain control as the highest of
                          all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                          title and definition.

                          Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                          for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                          on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                          12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                          states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                          Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                          need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                          on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                          for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                          of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                          is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                          Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                          straight!

                          Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                          Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                          by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                          Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                          page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                          was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                          interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                          had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                          talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                          Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                          that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                          970th LEM, was from.

                          I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                          wanted to present more details than what
                          were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                          for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                          Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                          up for him, as well as, creating his own
                          newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                          and distortions.

                          There's one more thing that I wanted to
                          mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                          Christians believe that Jesus will come
                          again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                          believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                          Freedom via God-Realization in this
                          lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

                          Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                          will deny this, but they share the same
                          Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                          Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                          switch and made Adam into Adom and
                          Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                          for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                          Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                          where ECKists have made fun of the
                          Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                          would seem that they are laughing
                          at themselves and don't realize it!
                          How clueless! Then again, an inability
                          to do critical thinking and Not being
                          able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                          still ECKists.

                          Prometheus
                        • prometheus_973
                          Let s take another look at The Tiger s Fang which Eckankar continues to sell. In Chapter 8 the Four Principles of Sugmad were given to Paul and Rebazar
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 9, 2010
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                            Let's take another look at "The
                            Tiger's Fang" which Eckankar
                            continues to sell.

                            In Chapter 8 the Four Principles
                            of Sugmad were given to Paul
                            and Rebazar (Kirpal Singh) by
                            Sugmad himself. Here's number Four:

                            4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth
                            is greater than the Lie,

                            and truth is Never Greater than No truth,

                            for the latter [no truth, the lie] is the
                            shining ideal which God holds before
                            the Soul in his true kingdom!"

                            ME: So, Twit/Suggie is saying that
                            "the Lie" (his no truth) is greater than
                            the truth.

                            And, "the Lie" (no truth) is greater than truth!

                            However, he's saying that the latter (no truth)
                            is the "shining ideal" - the Perfect Lie!

                            Maybe the perfect lie is the shining ideal
                            for a conman! Is this a Freudian slip by
                            Twitchell? After all, Twitchell lied about
                            everything in order to create Eckankar.

                            When one looks at Twit's track record
                            you can see that he's been lying, plagiarizing,
                            and distorting the truth by "exaggerating,"
                            and "twisting facts" for most of his life.
                            At age 27 (1935) he was lying on a grand
                            scale to get into Who's Who in Kentucky,
                            and Klemp points that out! Paul lied about
                            his age in order to attract Gail who was
                            33 years younger, thus, everything PT wrote
                            about age not mattering, Soul is ageless,
                            or about one's right to privacy and that the
                            government didn't need to know this info
                            (birth records) were used to cover-up and
                            distract people.

                            I wonder what Gail and Patti thought
                            about Paul's "Virgin Birth" and "Mahanta"
                            story? They both went along with it didn't
                            they! As I pointed out, just look in the
                            index of the Shariyat One for, "Mahanta,
                            birth of."

                            Plus, let's not forget that trip to "Paris"
                            where Paul (at age 15) stayed with his
                            "step-sister" Kay-Dee and then met
                            Sudar Singh and traveled to India with
                            him where they, supposedly, stayed for
                            one year! Paul claimed to have gotten
                            the Second Initiation from Sudar while
                            there.

                            Marman has pointed out that this was
                            Paris, Kentucky and Not Paris, France.
                            Therefore, Paul and Kay-Dee could not
                            have met Sudar Singh while there nor
                            traveled to India. Thus, Paul never got
                            the Second Initiation from Sudar as
                            he claimed!

                            Therefore, later, Sudar couldn't have
                            handed Paul off to Rebazar where PT,
                            supposedly, received his 3rd-7th
                            initiations! Then, on his "second trip,"
                            Paul claims to have received the 8th-
                            12th from Rebazar. None of it happened
                            since Sudar and Rebazar were fictitious
                            characters... like in a novel! This is
                            just one more reason why the "Difficulties
                            of Becoming the LEM" (1971 tape
                            transcriptions) was bought up and
                            destroyed.

                            So, I wonder why Marman hasn't
                            pieced the puzzel together by now,
                            or has he? Is Marman covering-up
                            for Klemp? After all, if Twitchell never
                            met Sudar in "Paris, France" then he
                            didn't travel with him to India and
                            didn't get the 2nd Initiation. Thus,
                            PT didn't get handed over to Rebazar
                            and never received the 12th Initiation
                            and never became the 971st LEM/Mahanta!

                            Therefore, Darwin's Initiations came
                            from a poser, an impostor, with No
                            Initiations coming from a "lineage
                            of ECK Masters!" Thus, Klemp is a
                            poser too! Those initiations Darwin
                            gave Klemp are invalid. Rebazar does
                            Not exist except in people's imaginations.
                            It's all fabricated, it's a lie and Klemp,
                            with Marman's help, is covering it up
                            too!

                            However, most religions are built
                            upon lies and myth (distortions of
                            fact and unscientific explanations
                            of nature). Religions rely upon giving
                            "spiritual answers" to questions about
                            creation and life and death and the
                            beyond. They give hope of another
                            life after death, but there's a catch!

                            One has to believe in their stories
                            and follow their rules, laws, and
                            guidelines and one has to bow down
                            to the (RESA) Hierarchy. One has to
                            hang onto and worship every word
                            spoken by their God's representative
                            on earth... the Godman (Klemp).

                            I guess that HK rationalizes his
                            lies by thinking that he's providing
                            a service to lost Souls. If it wasn't
                            for Eckankar these New Agers wouldn't
                            have anything to believe in to give
                            them hope.

                            On the other hand, if it wasn't
                            for Twitchell's Eckankar scam
                            Klemp wouldn't have had
                            such a good paying job with all
                            of those perks. It's hard to say
                            what he would be doing or where
                            he'd be living if it wasn't for being
                            promoted to LEM by Darwin. Chances
                            are he'd still be a 7th, or maybe an
                            8th initiate, and working at the ESC.
                            He'd be writing EK brochures or books
                            like Phil Morimitsu once wrote.

                            BTW-What ever happened to those
                            books? Klemp doesn't like the competition
                            does he!

                            prometheus



                            ***********************************
                            Twitchell's manuscript was a work
                            in progress with rewrites and tweaking
                            during his time (1955-65) spent with
                            his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh.

                            Klemp even mentions Kirpal on
                            Eckankar.org and his involvement
                            with The Tiger's Fang manuscript
                            not long before it was published.
                            Read the two sections titled "Struggle
                            for Mastership" and "Beginnings
                            of Eckankar" listed below.

                            http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

                            Interesting too that Klemp mentions
                            Kirpal Singh by name 15 times during
                            this "Behind the Scenes with Paul Twitchell"
                            while only mentioning former 970th LEM
                            Sudar Singh's name 6 times! Count and see!

                            Here, in Chapter 8, Twitchell has Sugmad
                            speaking to him and Kirpal (Rebazar). This
                            is just one of the problems that Kirpal had
                            with this manuscript. Anyway, here are some
                            quotes:

                            Sugmad:

                            "You are also God! You are myself! I!

                            1) "My First Principle is that this true cosmos IS!

                            2) "My Second Principle is that there is no
                            God but me, I; not me as you know, but
                            that which is within you, the Self. Therefore
                            all is God, include the lowest of life.

                            3) "My Third Principle is that to have divinity,
                            you must dwell in the center of my Light
                            and Sound; and since Light is God, and God
                            is Light then IT is everywhere, and has No
                            Focus except in each Soul. Thus I must dwell
                            in the Light within Me!

                            4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth is
                            greater than the Lie, and truth is never greater
                            than No truth, for the latter is the shining ideal
                            which God holds before the Soul in his true kingdom!

                            ***
                            It seems to me that Paul, at first, was wanting
                            to share some of his views and to become a
                            real writer with a book. Gail talked him into
                            making it into a religion when interest picked
                            up at his book promotions and people started
                            to look to Twit as their modern day saviour/prophet!
                            Klemp merely positioned himself at the ESC
                            and inherited the LEM title as Darwin's writer.

                            Prometheus



                            Hello Etznab and All,
                            I started another thread for this discussion.
                            Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                            1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                            until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                            up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                            that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                            Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                            and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                            Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                            one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                            editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                            fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                            delude its followers.

                            Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                            Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                            of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                            all of those secret teachings and when he made
                            PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                            mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                            one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                            Four More Years that this information (if we
                            believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                            Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                            the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                            it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                            the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                            the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                            are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                            some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                            gap, 1965-1969?

                            Prometheus


                            Hello Etznab,
                            It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                            Twitchell claims to have received the
                            Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                            he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                            have trouble remembering the details
                            of their lies. That's why Twit made
                            the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                            his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                            created or started the "outer church"
                            on this date. This way he'd remember
                            it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                            is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                            every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                            history, on this date... his birthday!

                            PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                            (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                            REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                            these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                            The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                            didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                            due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                            and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                            given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                            of God.

                            As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                            This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                            1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                            name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                            Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                            did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                            publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                            to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                            as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                            even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                            in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                            get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                            a past track record of lying has been verified
                            by Klemp.

                            The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                            but let's remember that Klemp states that
                            Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                            Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                            mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                            that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                            there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                            in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                            "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

                            If one has paid attention they will see that
                            Klemp has not only given new covers to
                            Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                            as well. Just look at the differences and
                            changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                            Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                            to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                            current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                            sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                            works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                            the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

                            Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                            ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                            included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                            these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                            How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                            of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

                            Prometheus




                            etznab wrote:

                            hat was interesting what you said about
                            "Mahanta".

                            Just the other day I was trying to remember
                            exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                            experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                            and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                            Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

                            Was that the date?

                            I assumed the writing about it would have to
                            be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                            for books after that date.

                            The Flute of God came out in installments
                            in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                            to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                            have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                            out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                            1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                            to Darwin Gross, I think.

                            1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                            (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                            took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                            mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                            various other forms of "Master".

                            All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                            In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

                            It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                            "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                            By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                            The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                            I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                            The Flute of God).

                            The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                            from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                            he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                            one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                            "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

                            The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                            "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

                            OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                            does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                            of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                            anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                            it at a seminar and it's on tape?

                            I'd like to find out when that experience was
                            mentioned and what was said about it to get
                            an idea about what "history" might exist.

                            Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                            I thought this query could be relevant to the
                            "Mahanta" topic.

                            Etznab

                            prometheus wrote:

                            Hello All,
                            I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                            Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

                            Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

                            In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                            condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                            delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                            1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                            true."

                            ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                            Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                            In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                            January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                            see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                            the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                            "The Wisdom Notes."

                            Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                            Twitchell stole even the name from another
                            spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                            in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                            was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                            of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                            form This was easy to accept, for most people
                            believe in some universal force whether called
                            "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                            associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                            and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                            of two words, he was able to transform himself
                            into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                            meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                            "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                            and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                            by making it part of "every word, thought and
                            action" of his followers."

                            ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                            be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                            in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                            Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                            Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                            in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                            create this term/position for himself until 1969.

                            BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                            by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                            Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                            used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                            (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                            that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                            was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

                            The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                            on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                            Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                            This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                            to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                            up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                            reproach and regain control as the highest of
                            all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                            title and definition.

                            Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                            for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                            on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                            12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                            states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                            Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                            need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                            on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                            for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                            of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                            is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                            Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                            straight!

                            Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                            Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                            by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                            Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                            page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                            was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                            interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                            had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                            talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                            Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                            that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                            970th LEM, was from.

                            I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                            wanted to present more details than what
                            were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                            for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                            Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                            up for him, as well as, creating his own
                            newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                            and distortions.

                            There's one more thing that I wanted to
                            mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                            Christians believe that Jesus will come
                            again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                            believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                            Freedom via God-Realization in this
                            lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!


                            Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                            will deny this, but they share the same
                            Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                            Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                            switch and made Adam into Adom and
                            Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                            for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                            Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                            where ECKists have made fun of the
                            Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                            would seem that they are laughing
                            at themselves and don't realize it!
                            How clueless! Then again, an inability
                            to do critical thinking and Not being
                            able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                            still ECKists.

                            Prometheus
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