Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Rebazar Was NOT a Mahanta in The Tiger's Fang

Expand Messages
  • etznab@aol.com
    I agree it is most peculiar that Mahanta didn t appear in The Tiger s Fang published 1967. There were other early books that didn t mention it either, if I
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 2, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
      appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.

      There were other early books that didn't mention
      it either, if I remember correctly.

      Etznab

      -----Original Message-----
      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, Mar 1, 2010 7:15 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Rebazar Was NOT a Mahanta in The
      Tiger's Fang

       
      Hello Etznab and All,
      I started another thread for this discussion.
      Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
      1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
      until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
      up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
      that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
      Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
      and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
      Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
      one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
      editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
      fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
      delude its followers.

      Really, one would think that when the fictitious
      Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
      of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
      all of those secret teachings and when he made
      PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
      mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
      one time or another! However, it wasn't for
      Four More Years that this information (if we
      believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
      Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
      the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
      it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
      the right circumstances, for him to figure out
      the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
      are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
      some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
      gap, 1965-1969?

      Prometheus

      Hello Etznab,
      It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
      Twitchell claims to have received the
      Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
      he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
      have trouble remembering the details
      of their lies. That's why Twit made
      the date of the LEM lie correspond to
      his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
      created or started the "outer church"
      on this date. This way he'd remember
      it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
      is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
      every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
      history, on this date... his birthday!

      PT did promote "Flute" via installments
      (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
      REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
      these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
      The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
      didn't get into print until 1970 probably
      due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
      and the First Printing date of 1970 are
      given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
      of God.

      As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
      This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
      1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
      name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
      Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
      did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
      publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
      to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
      as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
      even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
      in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
      get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
      a past track record of lying has been verified
      by Klemp.

      The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
      but let's remember that Klemp states that
      Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
      Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
      mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
      that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
      there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
      in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
      "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

      If one has paid attention they will see that
      Klemp has not only given new covers to
      Paul's older works, but has done reediting
      as well. Just look at the differences and
      changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
      Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
      to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
      current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
      sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
      works, but he can do this because Gail sold
      the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

      Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
      ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
      included, that are still her friend. Then again,
      these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
      How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
      of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

      Prometheus

      etznab wrote:

      hat was interesting what you said about
      "Mahanta".

      Just the other day I was trying to remember
      exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
      experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
      and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
      Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

      Was that the date?

      I assumed the writing about it would have to
      be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
      for books after that date.

      The Flute of God came out in installments
      in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
      to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
      have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
      out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
      1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
      to Darwin Gross, I think.

      1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
      (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
      took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
      mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
      various other forms of "Master".

      All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
      In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

      It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
      "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
      By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
      The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
      I believe. (That would be the edited version of
      The Flute of God).

      The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
      from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
      he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
      one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
      "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

      The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
      "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

      OK. So where in all these books since 1965
      does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
      of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
      anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
      it at a seminar and it's on tape?

      I'd like to find out when that experience was
      mentioned and what was said about it to get
      an idea about what "history" might exist.

      Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
      I thought this query could be relevant to the
      "Mahanta" topic.

      Etznab

      prometheus wrote:

      Hello All,
      I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
      Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

      Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

      In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
      condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
      delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
      1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
      true."

      ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
      Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
      In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
      January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
      see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
      the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
      "The Wisdom Notes."

      Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
      Twitchell stole even the name from another
      spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
      in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
      was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
      of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
      form This was easy to accept, for most people
      believe in some universal force whether called
      "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
      associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
      and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
      of two words, he was able to transform himself
      into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
      meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
      "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
      and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
      by making it part of "every word, thought and
      action" of his followers."

      ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
      be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
      in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
      Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
      Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
      in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
      create this term/position for himself until 1969.

      BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
      by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
      Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
      used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
      (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
      that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
      was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

      The second thing was that Paul began to renege
      on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
      Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
      This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
      to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
      up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
      reproach and regain control as the highest of
      all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
      title and definition.

      Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
      for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
      on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
      12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
      states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
      Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
      need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
      on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
      for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
      of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
      is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
      Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
      straight!

      Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
      Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
      by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
      Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
      page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
      was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
      interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
      had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
      talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
      Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
      that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
      970th LEM, was from.

      I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
      wanted to present more details than what
      were first gathered. It's a big job digging
      for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
      Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
      up for him, as well as, creating his own
      newer version of Eckankar with more lies
      and distortions.

      There's one more thing that I wanted to
      mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
      Christians believe that Jesus will come
      again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
      believe that they will achieve Spiritual
      Freedom via God-Realization in this
      lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

      Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
      will deny this, but they share the same
      Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
      Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
      switch and made Adam into Adom and
      Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
      for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
      Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
      where ECKists have made fun of the
      Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
      would seem that they are laughing
      at themselves and don't realize it!
      How clueless! Then again, an inability
      to do critical thinking and Not being
      able to connect-the-dots is why they're
      still ECKists.

      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Etznab and All, Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master are historical transcriptions from private tapings by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 3, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Etznab and All,
        "Difficulties Of Becoming The
        Living ECK Master" are historical
        transcriptions from private tapings
        by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:

        "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
        made private tapings of his struggles
        before and after his acceptance
        of the Rod of ECK Power on October
        22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
        who presented these tapes to Sri
        Darwin.)"

        On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
        Twitchell tells his story of being
        initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
        in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
        trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
        at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
        after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
        lie! Marman states that this was
        Paris, Kentucky and Not France
        as Paul would have us to believe.

        Let's also recall that Klemp states,
        on eckankar.org, that at age 27
        (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
        and "twisting facts" (lying) about
        his "grand achievements" to get
        into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
        Thus, there was no trip to Paris
        (France) nor to India at age 15
        in 1923!

        http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html



        Twit states:
        "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
        quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
        six to seven months being taught
        and learning the works of ECK...
        Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]

        ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
        the "Mahanta" once during these
        months!

        PT: "I had already been initiated
        (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
        the same as everybody else, the
        second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]

        ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
        (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
        there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
        Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
        Singh was Twitchell's Master from
        1955-65. They even have the same
        last name! What's this mean? Well,
        it means that Eckankar was/is based
        upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
        is Klemp! There's no such thing as
        a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
        as believable as the Wizard of Oz!

        ***
        BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
        gives Twitchell's birth year as
        1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
        Books One and Two" on the Copyright
        Page.

        The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
        the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
        "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
        how PT's birthday corresponds
        to the Spiritual New Year and the
        Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
        ***

        PT: "And then I got the Third and
        Fourth, I went up through About
        the Seventh at this particular time
        (pg. 71)."

        ME: How does one go up to
        "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
        Wouldn't a person remember
        what initiation it was if it were
        true? This is just more proof
        that Twit was lying once again!

        PT: "... later [1951], but not
        on this trip, I followed him up
        there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
        and I got the finish (12th) of
        my initiations (pg. 71)."

        Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
        the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
        Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
        Master! I know this because Twitchell
        never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
        1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
        closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
        never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
        Jan. 1, 1969.

        Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
        year gap of knowledge (not knowing
        about the Mahanta) is quite simple
        right? I just can't figure out what it
        would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?

        Prometheus


        etznab wrote:

        I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
        appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.

        There were other early books that didn't mention
        it either, if I remember correctly.


        prometheus wrote:

        Hello Etznab and All,
        I started another thread for this discussion.
        Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
        1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
        until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
        up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
        that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
        Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
        and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
        Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
        one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
        editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
        fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
        delude its followers.

        Really, one would think that when the fictitious
        Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
        of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
        all of those secret teachings and when he made
        PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
        mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
        one time or another! However, it wasn't for
        Four More Years that this information (if we
        believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
        Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
        the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
        it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
        the right circumstances, for him to figure out
        the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
        are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
        some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
        gap, 1965-1969?

        Prometheus

        Hello Etznab,
        It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
        Twitchell claims to have received the
        Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
        he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
        have trouble remembering the details
        of their lies. That's why Twit made
        the date of the LEM lie correspond to
        his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
        created or started the "outer church"
        on this date. This way he'd remember
        it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
        is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
        every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
        history, on this date... his birthday!

        PT did promote "Flute" via installments
        (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
        REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
        these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
        The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
        didn't get into print until 1970 probably
        due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
        and the First Printing date of 1970 are
        given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
        of God.

        As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
        This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
        1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
        name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
        Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
        did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
        publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
        to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
        as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
        even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
        in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
        get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
        a past track record of lying has been verified
        by Klemp.

        The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
        but let's remember that Klemp states that
        Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
        Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
        mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
        that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
        there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
        in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
        "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

        If one has paid attention they will see that
        Klemp has not only given new covers to
        Paul's older works, but has done reediting
        as well. Just look at the differences and
        changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
        Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
        to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
        current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
        sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
        works, but he can do this because Gail sold
        the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

        Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
        ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
        included, that are still her friend. Then again,
        these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
        How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
        of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

        Prometheus

        etznab wrote:

        hat was interesting what you said about
        "Mahanta".

        Just the other day I was trying to remember
        exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
        experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
        and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
        Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

        Was that the date?

        I assumed the writing about it would have to
        be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
        for books after that date.

        The Flute of God came out in installments
        in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
        to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
        have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
        out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
        1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
        to Darwin Gross, I think.

        1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
        (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
        took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
        mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
        various other forms of "Master".

        All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
        In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

        It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
        "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
        By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
        The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
        I believe. (That would be the edited version of
        The Flute of God).

        The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
        from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
        he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
        one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
        "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

        The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
        "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

        OK. So where in all these books since 1965
        does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
        of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
        anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
        it at a seminar and it's on tape?

        I'd like to find out when that experience was
        mentioned and what was said about it to get
        an idea about what "history" might exist.

        Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
        I thought this query could be relevant to the
        "Mahanta" topic.

        Etznab

        prometheus wrote:

        Hello All,
        I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
        Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

        Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

        In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
        condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
        delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
        1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
        true."

        ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
        Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
        In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
        January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
        see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
        the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
        "The Wisdom Notes."

        Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
        Twitchell stole even the name from another
        spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
        in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
        was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
        of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
        form This was easy to accept, for most people
        believe in some universal force whether called
        "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
        associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
        and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
        of two words, he was able to transform himself
        into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
        meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
        "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
        and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
        by making it part of "every word, thought and
        action" of his followers."

        ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
        be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
        in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
        Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
        Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
        in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
        create this term/position for himself until 1969.

        BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
        by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
        Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
        used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
        (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
        that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
        was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

        The second thing was that Paul began to renege
        on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
        Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
        This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
        to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
        up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
        reproach and regain control as the highest of
        all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
        title and definition.

        Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
        for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
        on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
        12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
        states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
        Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
        need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
        on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
        for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
        of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
        is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
        Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
        straight!

        Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
        Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
        by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
        Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
        page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
        was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
        interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
        had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
        talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
        Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
        that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
        970th LEM, was from.

        I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
        wanted to present more details than what
        were first gathered. It's a big job digging
        for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
        Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
        up for him, as well as, creating his own
        newer version of Eckankar with more lies
        and distortions.

        There's one more thing that I wanted to
        mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
        Christians believe that Jesus will come
        again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
        believe that they will achieve Spiritual
        Freedom via God-Realization in this
        lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

        Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
        will deny this, but they share the same
        Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
        Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
        switch and made Adam into Adom and
        Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
        for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
        Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
        where ECKists have made fun of the
        Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
        would seem that they are laughing
        at themselves and don't realize it!
        How clueless! Then again, an inability
        to do critical thinking and Not being
        able to connect-the-dots is why they're
        still ECKists.

        Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        Hello All, Let s summarize Paul s Initiation lies: 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh at about age 16 (1923-24). Paul states that he and Kay-Dee traveled
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 3, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello All,
          Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:

          1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
          at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
          Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
          traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
          and stayed in Allahabad, India
          for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]

          2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
          to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
          Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
          Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]

          3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
          to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
          into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
          [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
          Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
          eckankar.org

          Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
          Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
          in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
          lied as to how many times he traveled
          to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
          Twit ever travelled to India!

          Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
          we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
          lying! And, this is just a couple of months
          before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!

          What's it all mean? It means that Twit
          conned people and that Klemp is still
          conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
          But, should anyone be surprised when
          religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
          gullible and loving people? Most people
          want to believe and they want to believe
          the best in whatever or whomever.
          Everyone has to figure out what category
          of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
          are manmade just as religions are.

          Prometheus


          prometheus wrote:
          Hello Etznab and All,
          "Difficulties Of Becoming The
          Living ECK Master" are historical
          transcriptions from private tapings
          by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:

          "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
          made private tapings of his struggles
          before and after his acceptance
          of the Rod of ECK Power on October
          22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
          who presented these tapes to Sri
          Darwin.)"

          On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
          Twitchell tells his story of being
          initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
          in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
          trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
          at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
          after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
          lie! Marman states that this was
          Paris, Kentucky and Not France
          as Paul would have us to believe.

          Let's also recall that Klemp states,
          on eckankar.org, that at age 27
          (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
          and "twisting facts" (lying) about
          his "grand achievements" to get
          into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
          Thus, there was no trip to Paris
          (France) nor to India at age 15
          in 1923!

          http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html



          Twit states:
          "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
          quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
          six to seven months being taught
          and learning the works of ECK...
          Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]

          ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
          the "Mahanta" once during these
          months!

          PT: "I had already been initiated
          (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
          the same as everybody else, the
          second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]

          ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
          (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
          there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
          Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
          Singh was Twitchell's Master from
          1955-65. They even have the same
          last name! What's this mean? Well,
          it means that Eckankar was/is based
          upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
          is Klemp! There's no such thing as
          a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
          as believable as the Wizard of Oz!

          ***
          BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
          gives Twitchell's birth year as
          1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
          Books One and Two" on the Copyright
          Page.

          The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
          the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
          "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
          how PT's birthday corresponds
          to the Spiritual New Year and the
          Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
          ***

          PT: "And then I got the Third and
          Fourth, I went up through About
          the Seventh at this particular time
          (pg. 71)."

          ME: How does one go up to
          "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
          Wouldn't a person remember
          what initiation it was if it were
          true? This is just more proof
          that Twit was lying once again!

          PT: "... later [1951], but not
          on this trip, I followed him up
          there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
          and I got the finish (12th) of
          my initiations (pg. 71)."

          Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
          the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
          Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
          Master! I know this because Twitchell
          never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
          1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
          closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
          never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
          Jan. 1, 1969.

          Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
          year gap of knowledge (not knowing
          about the Mahanta) is quite simple
          right? I just can't figure out what it
          would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?

          Prometheus


          etznab wrote:

          I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
          appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.

          There were other early books that didn't mention
          it either, if I remember correctly.


          prometheus wrote:

          Hello Etznab and All,
          I started another thread for this discussion.
          Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
          1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
          until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
          up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
          that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
          Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
          and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
          Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
          one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
          editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
          fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
          delude its followers.

          Really, one would think that when the fictitious
          Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
          of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
          all of those secret teachings and when he made
          PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
          mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
          one time or another! However, it wasn't for
          Four More Years that this information (if we
          believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
          Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
          the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
          it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
          the right circumstances, for him to figure out
          the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
          are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
          some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
          gap, 1965-1969?

          Prometheus

          Hello Etznab,
          It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
          Twitchell claims to have received the
          Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
          he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
          have trouble remembering the details
          of their lies. That's why Twit made
          the date of the LEM lie correspond to
          his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
          created or started the "outer church"
          on this date. This way he'd remember
          it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
          is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
          every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
          history, on this date... his birthday!

          PT did promote "Flute" via installments
          (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
          REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
          these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
          The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
          didn't get into print until 1970 probably
          due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
          and the First Printing date of 1970 are
          given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
          of God.

          As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
          This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
          1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
          name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
          Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
          did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
          publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
          to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
          as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
          even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
          in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
          get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
          a past track record of lying has been verified
          by Klemp.

          The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
          but let's remember that Klemp states that
          Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
          Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
          mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
          that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
          there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
          in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
          "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

          If one has paid attention they will see that
          Klemp has not only given new covers to
          Paul's older works, but has done reediting
          as well. Just look at the differences and
          changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
          Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
          to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
          current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
          sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
          works, but he can do this because Gail sold
          the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

          Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
          ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
          included, that are still her friend. Then again,
          these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
          How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
          of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

          Prometheus

          etznab wrote:

          hat was interesting what you said about
          "Mahanta".

          Just the other day I was trying to remember
          exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
          experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
          and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
          Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

          Was that the date?

          I assumed the writing about it would have to
          be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
          for books after that date.

          The Flute of God came out in installments
          in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
          to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
          have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
          out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
          1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
          to Darwin Gross, I think.

          1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
          (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
          took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
          mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
          various other forms of "Master".

          All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
          In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

          It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
          "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
          By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
          The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
          I believe. (That would be the edited version of
          The Flute of God).

          The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
          from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
          he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
          one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
          "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

          The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
          "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

          OK. So where in all these books since 1965
          does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
          of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
          anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
          it at a seminar and it's on tape?

          I'd like to find out when that experience was
          mentioned and what was said about it to get
          an idea about what "history" might exist.

          Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
          I thought this query could be relevant to the
          "Mahanta" topic.

          Etznab

          prometheus wrote:

          Hello All,
          I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
          Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

          Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

          In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
          condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
          delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
          1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
          true."

          ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
          Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
          In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
          January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
          see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
          the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
          "The Wisdom Notes."

          Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
          Twitchell stole even the name from another
          spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
          in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
          was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
          of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
          form This was easy to accept, for most people
          believe in some universal force whether called
          "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
          associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
          and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
          of two words, he was able to transform himself
          into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
          meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
          "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
          and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
          by making it part of "every word, thought and
          action" of his followers."

          ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
          be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
          in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
          Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
          Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
          in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
          create this term/position for himself until 1969.

          BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
          by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
          Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
          used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
          (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
          that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
          was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

          The second thing was that Paul began to renege
          on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
          Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
          This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
          to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
          up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
          reproach and regain control as the highest of
          all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
          title and definition.

          Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
          for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
          on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
          12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
          states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
          Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
          need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
          on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
          for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
          of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
          is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
          Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
          straight!

          Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
          Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
          by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
          Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
          page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
          was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
          interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
          had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
          talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
          Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
          that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
          970th LEM, was from.

          I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
          wanted to present more details than what
          were first gathered. It's a big job digging
          for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
          Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
          up for him, as well as, creating his own
          newer version of Eckankar with more lies
          and distortions.

          There's one more thing that I wanted to
          mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
          Christians believe that Jesus will come
          again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
          believe that they will achieve Spiritual
          Freedom via God-Realization in this
          lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

          Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
          will deny this, but they share the same
          Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
          Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
          switch and made Adam into Adom and
          Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
          for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
          Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
          where ECKists have made fun of the
          Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
          would seem that they are laughing
          at themselves and don't realize it!
          How clueless! Then again, an inability
          to do critical thinking and Not being
          able to connect-the-dots is why they're
          still ECKists.

          Prometheus
        • etznab@aol.com
          And then there is this: Hmm, his first wife, Camille Ballowe Taylor, states univocally that they never traveled together (or apart) from 1946 to 1955 anywhere
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 3, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            And then there is this:

            "Hmm, his first wife, Camille Ballowe Taylor,
            states univocally that they never traveled
            together (or apart) from 1946 to 1955 anywhere
            outside of the United States. Indeed, she says
            Paul and her were doing the "Self-Revelation
            Church of Absolute Monism" at the time and
            helping to edit their publications."

            http://dlane5.tripod.com/reba1.html

            I didn't learn this until rather recently. If this is
            true then I don't know how a 1947 or 1951 trip
            to India physically happened unless Paul made
            a double of himself for the occasion.

            Etznab


            -----Original Message-----
            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wed, Mar 3, 2010 5:44 pm
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Rebazar Was NOT a Mahanta in
            The Tiger's Fang

             
            Hello All,
            Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:

            1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
            at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
            Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
            traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
            and stayed in Allahabad, India
            for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]

            2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
            to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
            Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
            Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]

            3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
            to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
            into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
            [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
            Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
            eckankar.org

            Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
            Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
            in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
            lied as to how many times he traveled
            to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
            Twit ever travelled to India!

            Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
            we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
            lying! And, this is just a couple of months
            before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!

            What's it all mean? It means that Twit
            conned people and that Klemp is still
            conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
            But, should anyone be surprised when
            religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
            gullible and loving people? Most people
            want to believe and they want to believe
            the best in whatever or whomever.
            Everyone has to figure out what category
            of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
            are manmade just as religions are.

            Prometheus

            prometheus wrote:
            Hello Etznab and All,
            "Difficulties Of Becoming The
            Living ECK Master" are historical
            transcriptions from private tapings
            by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:

            "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
            made private tapings of his struggles
            before and after his acceptance
            of the Rod of ECK Power on October
            22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
            who presented these tapes to Sri
            Darwin.)"

            On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
            Twitchell tells his story of being
            initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
            in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
            trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
            at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
            after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
            lie! Marman states that this was
            Paris, Kentucky and Not France
            as Paul would have us to believe.

            Let's also recall that Klemp states,
            on eckankar.org, that at age 27
            (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
            and "twisting facts" (lying) about
            his "grand achievements" to get
            into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
            Thus, there was no trip to Paris
            (France) nor to India at age 15
            in 1923!

            http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html

            Twit states:
            "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
            quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
            six to seven months being taught
            and learning the works of ECK...
            Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]

            ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
            the "Mahanta" once during these
            months!

            PT: "I had already been initiated
            (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
            the same as everybody else, the
            second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]

            ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
            (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
            there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
            Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
            Singh was Twitchell's Master from
            1955-65. They even have the same
            last name! What's this mean? Well,
            it means that Eckankar was/is based
            upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
            is Klemp! There's no such thing as
            a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
            as believable as the Wizard of Oz!

            ***
            BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
            gives Twitchell's birth year as
            1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
            Books One and Two" on the Copyright
            Page.

            The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
            the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
            "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
            how PT's birthday corresponds
            to the Spiritual New Year and the
            Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
            ***

            PT: "And then I got the Third and
            Fourth, I went up through About
            the Seventh at this particular time
            (pg. 71)."

            ME: How does one go up to
            "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
            Wouldn't a person remember
            what initiation it was if it were
            true? This is just more proof
            that Twit was lying once again!

            PT: "... later [1951], but not
            on this trip, I followed him up
            there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
            and I got the finish (12th) of
            my initiations (pg. 71)."

            Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
            the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
            Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
            Master! I know this because Twitchell
            never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
            1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
            closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
            never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
            Jan. 1, 1969.

            Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
            year gap of knowledge (not knowing
            about the Mahanta) is quite simple
            right? I just can't figure out what it
            would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?

            Prometheus

            etznab wrote:

            I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
            appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.

            There were other early books that didn't mention
            it either, if I remember correctly.

            prometheus wrote:

            Hello Etznab and All,
            I started another thread for this discussion.
            Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
            1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
            until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
            up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
            that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
            Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
            and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
            Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
            one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
            editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
            fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
            delude its followers.

            Really, one would think that when the fictitious
            Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
            of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
            all of those secret teachings and when he made
            PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
            mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
            one time or another! However, it wasn't for
            Four More Years that this information (if we
            believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
            Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
            the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
            it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
            the right circumstances, for him to figure out
            the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
            are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
            some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
            gap, 1965-1969?

            Prometheus

            Hello Etznab,
            It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
            Twitchell claims to have received the
            Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
            he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
            have trouble remembering the details
            of their lies. That's why Twit made
            the date of the LEM lie correspond to
            his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
            created or started the "outer church"
            on this date. This way he'd remember
            it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
            is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
            every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
            history, on this date... his birthday!

            PT did promote "Flute" via installments
            (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
            REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
            these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
            The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
            didn't get into print until 1970 probably
            due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
            and the First Printing date of 1970 are
            given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
            of God.

            As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
            This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
            1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
            name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
            Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
            did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
            publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
            to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
            as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
            even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
            in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
            get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
            a past track record of lying has been verified
            by Klemp.

            The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
            but let's remember that Klemp states that
            Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
            Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
            mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
            that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
            there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
            in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
            "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

            If one has paid attention they will see that
            Klemp has not only given new covers to
            Paul's older works, but has done reediting
            as well. Just look at the differences and
            changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
            Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
            to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
            current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
            sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
            works, but he can do this because Gail sold
            the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

            Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
            ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
            included, that are still her friend. Then again,
            these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
            How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
            of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

            Prometheus

            etznab wrote:

            hat was interesting what you said about
            "Mahanta".

            Just the other day I was trying to remember
            exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
            experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
            and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
            Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

            Was that the date?

            I assumed the writing about it would have to
            be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
            for books after that date.

            The Flute of God came out in installments
            in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
            to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
            have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
            out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
            1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
            to Darwin Gross, I think.

            1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
            (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
            took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
            mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
            various other forms of "Master".

            All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
            In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

            It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
            "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
            By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
            The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
            I believe. (That would be the edited version of
            The Flute of God).

            The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
            from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
            he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
            one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
            "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

            The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
            "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

            OK. So where in all these books since 1965
            does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
            of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
            anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
            it at a seminar and it's on tape?

            I'd like to find out when that experience was
            mentioned and what was said about it to get
            an idea about what "history" might exist.

            Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
            I thought this query could be relevant to the
            "Mahanta" topic.

            Etznab

            prometheus wrote:

            Hello All,
            I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
            Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

            Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

            In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
            condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
            delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
            1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
            true."

            ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
            Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
            In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
            January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
            see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
            the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
            "The Wisdom Notes."

            Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
            Twitchell stole even the name from another
            spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
            in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
            was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
            of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
            form This was easy to accept, for most people
            believe in some universal force whether called
            "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
            associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
            and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
            of two words, he was able to transform himself
            into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
            meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
            "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
            and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
            by making it part of "every word, thought and
            action" of his followers."

            ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
            be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
            in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
            Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
            Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
            in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
            create this term/position for himself until 1969.

            BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
            by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
            Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
            used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
            (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
            that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
            was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

            The second thing was that Paul began to renege
            on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
            Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
            This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
            to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
            up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
            reproach and regain control as the highest of
            all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
            title and definition.

            Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
            for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
            on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
            12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
            states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
            Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
            need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
            on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
            for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
            of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
            is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
            Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
            straight!

            Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
            Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
            by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
            Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
            page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
            was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
            interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
            had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
            talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
            Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
            that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
            970th LEM, was from.

            I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
            wanted to present more details than what
            were first gathered. It's a big job digging
            for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
            Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
            up for him, as well as, creating his own
            newer version of Eckankar with more lies
            and distortions.

            There's one more thing that I wanted to
            mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
            Christians believe that Jesus will come
            again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
            believe that they will achieve Spiritual
            Freedom via God-Realization in this
            lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

            Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
            will deny this, but they share the same
            Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
            Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
            switch and made Adam into Adom and
            Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
            for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
            Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
            where ECKists have made fun of the
            Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
            would seem that they are laughing
            at themselves and don't realize it!
            How clueless! Then again, an inability
            to do critical thinking and Not being
            able to connect-the-dots is why they're
            still ECKists.

            Prometheus
          • ctecvie
            Hi Prometheus and all, commenting on the last paragraph of your post: Religions pretend that they can give answers to questions that cannot be answered. We
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 3, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Prometheus and all,

              commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
              Religions pretend that they can give answers to questions that cannot be answered. We need to accept the fact that not everything can be explained. And that's where religions come in and make (our) money!

              Ingrid

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
              >
              > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
              > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
              > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
              > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
              > and stayed in Allahabad, India
              > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
              >
              > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
              > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
              > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
              > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
              >
              > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
              > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
              > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
              > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
              > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
              > eckankar.org
              >
              > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
              > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
              > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
              > lied as to how many times he traveled
              > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
              > Twit ever travelled to India!
              >
              > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
              > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
              > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
              > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
              >
              > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
              > conned people and that Klemp is still
              > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
              > But, should anyone be surprised when
              > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
              > gullible and loving people? Most people
              > want to believe and they want to believe
              > the best in whatever or whomever.
              > Everyone has to figure out what category
              > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
              > are manmade just as religions are.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > Hello Etznab and All,
              > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
              > Living ECK Master" are historical
              > transcriptions from private tapings
              > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
              >
              > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
              > made private tapings of his struggles
              > before and after his acceptance
              > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
              > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
              > who presented these tapes to Sri
              > Darwin.)"
              >
              > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
              > Twitchell tells his story of being
              > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
              > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
              > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
              > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
              > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
              > lie! Marman states that this was
              > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
              > as Paul would have us to believe.
              >
              > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
              > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
              > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
              > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
              > his "grand achievements" to get
              > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
              > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
              > (France) nor to India at age 15
              > in 1923!
              >
              > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
              >
              >
              >
              > Twit states:
              > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
              > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
              > six to seven months being taught
              > and learning the works of ECK...
              > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
              >
              > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
              > the "Mahanta" once during these
              > months!
              >
              > PT: "I had already been initiated
              > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
              > the same as everybody else, the
              > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
              >
              > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
              > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
              > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
              > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
              > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
              > 1955-65. They even have the same
              > last name! What's this mean? Well,
              > it means that Eckankar was/is based
              > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
              > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
              > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
              > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
              >
              > ***
              > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
              > gives Twitchell's birth year as
              > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
              > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
              > Page.
              >
              > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
              > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
              > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
              > how PT's birthday corresponds
              > to the Spiritual New Year and the
              > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
              > ***
              >
              > PT: "And then I got the Third and
              > Fourth, I went up through About
              > the Seventh at this particular time
              > (pg. 71)."
              >
              > ME: How does one go up to
              > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
              > Wouldn't a person remember
              > what initiation it was if it were
              > true? This is just more proof
              > that Twit was lying once again!
              >
              > PT: "... later [1951], but not
              > on this trip, I followed him up
              > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
              > and I got the finish (12th) of
              > my initiations (pg. 71)."
              >
              > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
              > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
              > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
              > Master! I know this because Twitchell
              > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
              > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
              > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
              > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
              > Jan. 1, 1969.
              >
              > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
              > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
              > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
              > right? I just can't figure out what it
              > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > etznab wrote:
              >
              > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
              > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
              >
              > There were other early books that didn't mention
              > it either, if I remember correctly.
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello Etznab and All,
              > I started another thread for this discussion.
              > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
              > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
              > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
              > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
              > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
              > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
              > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
              > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
              > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
              > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
              > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
              > delude its followers.
              >
              > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
              > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
              > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
              > all of those secret teachings and when he made
              > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
              > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
              > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
              > Four More Years that this information (if we
              > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
              > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
              > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
              > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
              > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
              > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
              > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
              > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
              > gap, 1965-1969?
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > Hello Etznab,
              > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
              > Twitchell claims to have received the
              > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
              > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
              > have trouble remembering the details
              > of their lies. That's why Twit made
              > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
              > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
              > created or started the "outer church"
              > on this date. This way he'd remember
              > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
              > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
              > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
              > history, on this date... his birthday!
              >
              > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
              > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
              > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
              > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
              > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
              > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
              > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
              > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
              > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
              > of God.
              >
              > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
              > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
              > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
              > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
              > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
              > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
              > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
              > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
              > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
              > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
              > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
              > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
              > a past track record of lying has been verified
              > by Klemp.
              >
              > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
              > but let's remember that Klemp states that
              > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
              > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
              > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
              > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
              > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
              > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
              > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
              >
              > If one has paid attention they will see that
              > Klemp has not only given new covers to
              > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
              > as well. Just look at the differences and
              > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
              > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
              > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
              > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
              > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
              > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
              > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
              >
              > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
              > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
              > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
              > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
              > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
              > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > etznab wrote:
              >
              > hat was interesting what you said about
              > "Mahanta".
              >
              > Just the other day I was trying to remember
              > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
              > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
              > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
              > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
              >
              > Was that the date?
              >
              > I assumed the writing about it would have to
              > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
              > for books after that date.
              >
              > The Flute of God came out in installments
              > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
              > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
              > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
              > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
              > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
              > to Darwin Gross, I think.
              >
              > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
              > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
              > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
              > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
              > various other forms of "Master".
              >
              > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
              > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
              >
              > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
              > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
              > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
              > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
              > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
              > The Flute of God).
              >
              > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
              > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
              > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
              > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
              > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
              >
              > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
              > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
              >
              > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
              > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
              > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
              > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
              > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
              >
              > I'd like to find out when that experience was
              > mentioned and what was said about it to get
              > an idea about what "history" might exist.
              >
              > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
              > I thought this query could be relevant to the
              > "Mahanta" topic.
              >
              > Etznab
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
              > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
              >
              > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
              >
              > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
              > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
              > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
              > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
              > true."
              >
              > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
              > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
              > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
              > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
              > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
              > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
              > "The Wisdom Notes."
              >
              > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
              > Twitchell stole even the name from another
              > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
              > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
              > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
              > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
              > form This was easy to accept, for most people
              > believe in some universal force whether called
              > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
              > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
              > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
              > of two words, he was able to transform himself
              > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
              > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
              > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
              > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
              > by making it part of "every word, thought and
              > action" of his followers."
              >
              > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
              > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
              > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
              > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
              > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
              > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
              > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
              >
              > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
              > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
              > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
              > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
              > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
              > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
              > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
              >
              > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
              > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
              > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
              > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
              > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
              > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
              > reproach and regain control as the highest of
              > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
              > title and definition.
              >
              > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
              > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
              > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
              > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
              > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
              > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
              > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
              > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
              > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
              > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
              > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
              > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
              > straight!
              >
              > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
              > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
              > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
              > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
              > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
              > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
              > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
              > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
              > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
              > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
              > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
              > 970th LEM, was from.
              >
              > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
              > wanted to present more details than what
              > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
              > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
              > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
              > up for him, as well as, creating his own
              > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
              > and distortions.
              >
              > There's one more thing that I wanted to
              > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
              > Christians believe that Jesus will come
              > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
              > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
              > Freedom via God-Realization in this
              > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
              >
              > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
              > will deny this, but they share the same
              > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
              > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
              > switch and made Adam into Adom and
              > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
              > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
              > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
              > where ECKists have made fun of the
              > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
              > would seem that they are laughing
              > at themselves and don't realize it!
              > How clueless! Then again, an inability
              > to do critical thinking and Not being
              > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
              > still ECKists.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hi Ingrid and All, Yes, all religions take our money in one way or another. All of us pay for their Holy Wars that they wage upon the rest of us. Their members
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 4, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Ingrid and All,
                Yes, all religions take our money
                in one way or another. All of us pay
                for their Holy Wars that they wage
                upon the rest of us. Their members
                also pay for future promises and to
                feel good and all puffed-up, now,
                while looking down their noses at
                all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
                interesting that so many of them
                believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
                dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
                Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
                that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
                (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).

                Prometheus

                ctecvie wrote:

                Hi Prometheus and all,

                commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                Religions pretend that they can give answers to
                questions that cannot be answered. We need to
                accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
                And that's where religions come in and make (our)
                money!

                Ingrid


                prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello All,
                > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                >
                > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                >
                > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                >
                > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                > eckankar.org
                >
                > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                > lied as to how many times he traveled
                > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                > Twit ever travelled to India!
                >
                > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                >
                > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                > conned people and that Klemp is still
                > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                > But, should anyone be surprised when
                > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                > gullible and loving people? Most people
                > want to believe and they want to believe
                > the best in whatever or whomever.
                > Everyone has to figure out what category
                > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                > are manmade just as religions are.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > Hello Etznab and All,
                > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                > Living ECK Master" are historical
                > transcriptions from private tapings
                > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                >
                > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                > made private tapings of his struggles
                > before and after his acceptance
                > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                > who presented these tapes to Sri
                > Darwin.)"
                >
                > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                > Twitchell tells his story of being
                > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                > lie! Marman states that this was
                > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                > as Paul would have us to believe.
                >
                > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                > his "grand achievements" to get
                > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                > (France) nor to India at age 15
                > in 1923!
                >
                http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                >
                >
                >
                > Twit states:
                > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                > six to seven months being taught
                > and learning the works of ECK...
                > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                >
                > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                > the "Mahanta" once during these
                > months!
                >
                > PT: "I had already been initiated
                > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                > the same as everybody else, the
                > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                >
                > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                > 1955-65. They even have the same
                > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                >
                > ***
                > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                > Page.
                >
                > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                > how PT's birthday corresponds
                > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                > ***
                >
                > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                > Fourth, I went up through About
                > the Seventh at this particular time
                > (pg. 71)."
                >
                > ME: How does one go up to
                > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                > Wouldn't a person remember
                > what initiation it was if it were
                > true? This is just more proof
                > that Twit was lying once again!
                >
                > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                > on this trip, I followed him up
                > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                > and I got the finish (12th) of
                > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                >
                > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                > Jan. 1, 1969.
                >
                > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                > right? I just can't figure out what it
                > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > etznab wrote:
                >
                > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                >
                > There were other early books that didn't mention
                > it either, if I remember correctly.
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello Etznab and All,
                > I started another thread for this discussion.
                > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                > delude its followers.
                >
                > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                > Four More Years that this information (if we
                > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                > gap, 1965-1969?
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > Hello Etznab,
                > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                > Twitchell claims to have received the
                > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                > have trouble remembering the details
                > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                > created or started the "outer church"
                > on this date. This way he'd remember
                > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                > history, on this date... his birthday!
                >
                > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                > of God.
                >
                > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                > a past track record of lying has been verified
                > by Klemp.
                >
                > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                >
                > If one has paid attention they will see that
                > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                > as well. Just look at the differences and
                > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                >
                > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > etznab wrote:
                >
                > hat was interesting what you said about
                > "Mahanta".
                >
                > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                >
                > Was that the date?
                >
                > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                > for books after that date.
                >
                > The Flute of God came out in installments
                > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                >
                > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                > various other forms of "Master".
                >
                > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                >
                > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                > The Flute of God).
                >
                > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                >
                > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                >
                > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                >
                > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                >
                > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                > "Mahanta" topic.
                >
                > Etznab
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello All,
                > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                >
                > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                >
                > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                > true."
                >
                > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                > "The Wisdom Notes."
                >
                > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                > believe in some universal force whether called
                > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                > action" of his followers."
                >
                > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                >
                > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                >
                > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                > title and definition.
                >
                > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                > straight!
                >
                > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                > 970th LEM, was from.
                >
                > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                > wanted to present more details than what
                > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                > and distortions.
                >
                > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                >
                > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                > will deny this, but they share the same
                > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                > where ECKists have made fun of the
                > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                > would seem that they are laughing
                > at themselves and don't realize it!
                > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                > to do critical thinking and Not being
                > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                > still ECKists.
                >
                > Prometheus
              • ctecvie
                Hi Prometheus, yes the feel good factor is another important issue why people need religions. Isn t it just great to feel like the ones who will be saved
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 5, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Prometheus,

                  yes the "feel good" factor is another important issue why people need religions. Isn't it just great to feel like the ones who will be "saved" because they belong to the "right" group of people and to just know it all? It's really so good to look down on the poor devils who haven't figured it out for themselves ... :-D

                  And the karma thingie in eckankar is the same thing as the original sin of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened their eyes, they could see that very easily! LOL!

                  Ingrid

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Ingrid and All,
                  > Yes, all religions take our money
                  > in one way or another. All of us pay
                  > for their Holy Wars that they wage
                  > upon the rest of us. Their members
                  > also pay for future promises and to
                  > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
                  > while looking down their noses at
                  > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
                  > interesting that so many of them
                  > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
                  > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
                  > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
                  > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
                  > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  > ctecvie wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Prometheus and all,
                  >
                  > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                  > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
                  > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
                  > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
                  > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
                  > money!
                  >
                  > Ingrid
                  >
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello All,
                  > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                  > >
                  > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                  > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                  > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                  > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                  > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                  > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                  > >
                  > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                  > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                  > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                  > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                  > >
                  > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                  > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                  > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                  > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                  > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                  > > eckankar.org
                  > >
                  > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                  > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                  > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                  > > lied as to how many times he traveled
                  > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                  > > Twit ever travelled to India!
                  > >
                  > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                  > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                  > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                  > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                  > >
                  > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                  > > conned people and that Klemp is still
                  > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                  > > But, should anyone be surprised when
                  > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                  > > gullible and loving people? Most people
                  > > want to believe and they want to believe
                  > > the best in whatever or whomever.
                  > > Everyone has to figure out what category
                  > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                  > > are manmade just as religions are.
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > prometheus wrote:
                  > > Hello Etznab and All,
                  > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                  > > Living ECK Master" are historical
                  > > transcriptions from private tapings
                  > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                  > >
                  > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                  > > made private tapings of his struggles
                  > > before and after his acceptance
                  > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                  > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                  > > who presented these tapes to Sri
                  > > Darwin.)"
                  > >
                  > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                  > > Twitchell tells his story of being
                  > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                  > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                  > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                  > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                  > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                  > > lie! Marman states that this was
                  > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                  > > as Paul would have us to believe.
                  > >
                  > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                  > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                  > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                  > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                  > > his "grand achievements" to get
                  > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                  > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                  > > (France) nor to India at age 15
                  > > in 1923!
                  > >
                  > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Twit states:
                  > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                  > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                  > > six to seven months being taught
                  > > and learning the works of ECK...
                  > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                  > >
                  > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                  > > the "Mahanta" once during these
                  > > months!
                  > >
                  > > PT: "I had already been initiated
                  > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                  > > the same as everybody else, the
                  > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                  > >
                  > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                  > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                  > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                  > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                  > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                  > > 1955-65. They even have the same
                  > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                  > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                  > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                  > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                  > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                  > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                  > >
                  > > ***
                  > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                  > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                  > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                  > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                  > > Page.
                  > >
                  > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                  > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                  > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                  > > how PT's birthday corresponds
                  > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                  > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                  > > ***
                  > >
                  > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                  > > Fourth, I went up through About
                  > > the Seventh at this particular time
                  > > (pg. 71)."
                  > >
                  > > ME: How does one go up to
                  > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                  > > Wouldn't a person remember
                  > > what initiation it was if it were
                  > > true? This is just more proof
                  > > that Twit was lying once again!
                  > >
                  > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                  > > on this trip, I followed him up
                  > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                  > > and I got the finish (12th) of
                  > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                  > >
                  > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                  > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                  > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                  > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                  > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                  > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                  > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                  > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                  > > Jan. 1, 1969.
                  > >
                  > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                  > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                  > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                  > > right? I just can't figure out what it
                  > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > etznab wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                  > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                  > >
                  > > There were other early books that didn't mention
                  > > it either, if I remember correctly.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello Etznab and All,
                  > > I started another thread for this discussion.
                  > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                  > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                  > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                  > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                  > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                  > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                  > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                  > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                  > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                  > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                  > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                  > > delude its followers.
                  > >
                  > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                  > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                  > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                  > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                  > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                  > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                  > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                  > > Four More Years that this information (if we
                  > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                  > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                  > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                  > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                  > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                  > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                  > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                  > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                  > > gap, 1965-1969?
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > > Hello Etznab,
                  > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                  > > Twitchell claims to have received the
                  > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                  > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                  > > have trouble remembering the details
                  > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                  > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                  > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                  > > created or started the "outer church"
                  > > on this date. This way he'd remember
                  > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                  > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                  > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                  > > history, on this date... his birthday!
                  > >
                  > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                  > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                  > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                  > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                  > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                  > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                  > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                  > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                  > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                  > > of God.
                  > >
                  > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                  > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                  > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                  > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                  > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                  > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                  > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                  > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                  > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                  > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                  > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                  > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                  > > a past track record of lying has been verified
                  > > by Klemp.
                  > >
                  > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                  > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                  > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                  > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                  > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                  > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                  > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                  > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                  > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                  > >
                  > > If one has paid attention they will see that
                  > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                  > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                  > > as well. Just look at the differences and
                  > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                  > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                  > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                  > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                  > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                  > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                  > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                  > >
                  > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                  > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                  > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                  > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                  > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                  > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > > etznab wrote:
                  > >
                  > > hat was interesting what you said about
                  > > "Mahanta".
                  > >
                  > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                  > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                  > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                  > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                  > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                  > >
                  > > Was that the date?
                  > >
                  > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                  > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                  > > for books after that date.
                  > >
                  > > The Flute of God came out in installments
                  > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                  > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                  > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                  > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                  > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                  > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                  > >
                  > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                  > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                  > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                  > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                  > > various other forms of "Master".
                  > >
                  > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                  > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                  > >
                  > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                  > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                  > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                  > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                  > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                  > > The Flute of God).
                  > >
                  > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                  > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                  > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                  > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                  > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                  > >
                  > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                  > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                  > >
                  > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                  > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                  > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                  > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                  > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                  > >
                  > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                  > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                  > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                  > >
                  > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                  > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                  > > "Mahanta" topic.
                  > >
                  > > Etznab
                  > >
                  > > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello All,
                  > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                  > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                  > >
                  > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                  > >
                  > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                  > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                  > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                  > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                  > > true."
                  > >
                  > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                  > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                  > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                  > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                  > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                  > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                  > > "The Wisdom Notes."
                  > >
                  > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                  > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                  > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                  > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                  > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                  > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                  > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                  > > believe in some universal force whether called
                  > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                  > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                  > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                  > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                  > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                  > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                  > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                  > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                  > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                  > > action" of his followers."
                  > >
                  > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                  > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                  > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                  > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                  > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                  > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                  > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                  > >
                  > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                  > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                  > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                  > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                  > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                  > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                  > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                  > >
                  > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                  > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                  > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                  > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                  > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                  > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                  > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                  > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                  > > title and definition.
                  > >
                  > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                  > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                  > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                  > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                  > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                  > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                  > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                  > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                  > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                  > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                  > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                  > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                  > > straight!
                  > >
                  > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                  > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                  > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                  > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                  > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                  > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                  > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                  > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                  > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                  > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                  > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                  > > 970th LEM, was from.
                  > >
                  > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                  > > wanted to present more details than what
                  > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                  > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                  > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                  > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                  > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                  > > and distortions.
                  > >
                  > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                  > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                  > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                  > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                  > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                  > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                  > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                  > >
                  > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                  > > will deny this, but they share the same
                  > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                  > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                  > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                  > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                  > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                  > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                  > > where ECKists have made fun of the
                  > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                  > > would seem that they are laughing
                  > > at themselves and don't realize it!
                  > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                  > > to do critical thinking and Not being
                  > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                  > > still ECKists.
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  >
                • prometheus_973
                  Hello Ingrid, I was curious if you know how many countries force people to pay a tax for church membership? Which countries and which churches does it include?
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 5, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello Ingrid,
                    I was curious if you know how
                    many countries force people to
                    pay a tax for church membership?
                    Which countries and which churches
                    does it include? Why are these
                    governments forcing people to
                    pay this tax? Are the churches that
                    powerful, or is the government taking
                    their cut too? Is it just the Catholic and
                    Lutheran churches? Were you forced
                    to pay a tax due to Eckankar membership?

                    Forgive the questions but I've heard
                    something about this happening in
                    Germany.

                    Prometheus


                    ctecvie wrote:

                    Hi Prometheus,

                    yes the "feel good" factor is another
                    important issue why people need
                    religions. Isn't it just great to feel
                    like the ones who will be "saved"
                    because they belong to the "right"
                    group of people and to just know
                    it all? It's really so good to look
                    down on the poor devils who haven't
                    figured it out for themselves
                    ... :-D

                    And the karma thingie in eckankar
                    is the same thing as the original sin
                    of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened
                    their eyes, they could see that very easily!
                    LOL!

                    Ingrid

                    prometheus wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Ingrid and All,
                    > Yes, all religions take our money
                    > in one way or another. All of us pay
                    > for their Holy Wars that they wage
                    > upon the rest of us. Their members
                    > also pay for future promises and to
                    > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
                    > while looking down their noses at
                    > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
                    > interesting that so many of them
                    > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
                    > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
                    > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
                    > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
                    > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    > ctecvie wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Prometheus and all,
                    >
                    > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                    > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
                    > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
                    > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
                    > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
                    > money!
                    >
                    > Ingrid
                    >
                    >
                    > prometheus wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello All,
                    > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                    > >
                    > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                    > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                    > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                    > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                    > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                    > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                    > >
                    > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                    > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                    > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                    > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                    > >
                    > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                    > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                    > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                    > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                    > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                    > > eckankar.org
                    > >
                    > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                    > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                    > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                    > > lied as to how many times he traveled
                    > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                    > > Twit ever travelled to India!
                    > >
                    > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                    > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                    > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                    > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                    > >
                    > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                    > > conned people and that Klemp is still
                    > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                    > > But, should anyone be surprised when
                    > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                    > > gullible and loving people? Most people
                    > > want to believe and they want to believe
                    > > the best in whatever or whomever.
                    > > Everyone has to figure out what category
                    > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                    > > are manmade just as religions are.
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > prometheus wrote:
                    > > Hello Etznab and All,
                    > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                    > > Living ECK Master" are historical
                    > > transcriptions from private tapings
                    > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                    > >
                    > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                    > > made private tapings of his struggles
                    > > before and after his acceptance
                    > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                    > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                    > > who presented these tapes to Sri
                    > > Darwin.)"
                    > >
                    > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                    > > Twitchell tells his story of being
                    > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                    > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                    > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                    > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                    > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                    > > lie! Marman states that this was
                    > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                    > > as Paul would have us to believe.
                    > >
                    > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                    > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                    > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                    > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                    > > his "grand achievements" to get
                    > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                    > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                    > > (France) nor to India at age 15
                    > > in 1923!
                    > >
                    > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Twit states:
                    > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                    > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                    > > six to seven months being taught
                    > > and learning the works of ECK...
                    > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                    > >
                    > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                    > > the "Mahanta" once during these
                    > > months!
                    > >
                    > > PT: "I had already been initiated
                    > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                    > > the same as everybody else, the
                    > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                    > >
                    > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                    > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                    > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                    > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                    > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                    > > 1955-65. They even have the same
                    > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                    > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                    > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                    > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                    > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                    > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                    > >
                    > > ***
                    > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                    > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                    > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                    > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                    > > Page.
                    > >
                    > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                    > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                    > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                    > > how PT's birthday corresponds
                    > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                    > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                    > > ***
                    > >
                    > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                    > > Fourth, I went up through About
                    > > the Seventh at this particular time
                    > > (pg. 71)."
                    > >
                    > > ME: How does one go up to
                    > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                    > > Wouldn't a person remember
                    > > what initiation it was if it were
                    > > true? This is just more proof
                    > > that Twit was lying once again!
                    > >
                    > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                    > > on this trip, I followed him up
                    > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                    > > and I got the finish (12th) of
                    > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                    > >
                    > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                    > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                    > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                    > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                    > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                    > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                    > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                    > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                    > > Jan. 1, 1969.
                    > >
                    > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                    > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                    > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                    > > right? I just can't figure out what it
                    > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > etznab wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                    > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                    > >
                    > > There were other early books that didn't mention
                    > > it either, if I remember correctly.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > prometheus wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello Etznab and All,
                    > > I started another thread for this discussion.
                    > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                    > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                    > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                    > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                    > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                    > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                    > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                    > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                    > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                    > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                    > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                    > > delude its followers.
                    > >
                    > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                    > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                    > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                    > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                    > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                    > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                    > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                    > > Four More Years that this information (if we
                    > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                    > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                    > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                    > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                    > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                    > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                    > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                    > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                    > > gap, 1965-1969?
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > > Hello Etznab,
                    > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                    > > Twitchell claims to have received the
                    > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                    > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                    > > have trouble remembering the details
                    > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                    > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                    > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                    > > created or started the "outer church"
                    > > on this date. This way he'd remember
                    > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                    > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                    > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                    > > history, on this date... his birthday!
                    > >
                    > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                    > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                    > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                    > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                    > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                    > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                    > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                    > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                    > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                    > > of God.
                    > >
                    > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                    > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                    > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                    > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                    > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                    > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                    > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                    > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                    > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                    > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                    > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                    > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                    > > a past track record of lying has been verified
                    > > by Klemp.
                    > >
                    > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                    > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                    > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                    > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                    > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                    > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                    > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                    > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                    > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                    > >
                    > > If one has paid attention they will see that
                    > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                    > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                    > > as well. Just look at the differences and
                    > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                    > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                    > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                    > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                    > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                    > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                    > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                    > >
                    > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                    > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                    > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                    > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                    > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                    > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > > etznab wrote:
                    > >
                    > > hat was interesting what you said about
                    > > "Mahanta".
                    > >
                    > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                    > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                    > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                    > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                    > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                    > >
                    > > Was that the date?
                    > >
                    > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                    > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                    > > for books after that date.
                    > >
                    > > The Flute of God came out in installments
                    > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                    > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                    > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                    > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                    > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                    > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                    > >
                    > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                    > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                    > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                    > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                    > > various other forms of "Master".
                    > >
                    > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                    > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                    > >
                    > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                    > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                    > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                    > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                    > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                    > > The Flute of God).
                    > >
                    > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                    > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                    > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                    > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                    > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                    > >
                    > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                    > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                    > >
                    > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                    > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                    > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                    > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                    > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                    > >
                    > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                    > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                    > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                    > >
                    > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                    > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                    > > "Mahanta" topic.
                    > >
                    > > Etznab
                    > >
                    > > prometheus wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello All,
                    > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                    > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                    > >
                    > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                    > >
                    > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                    > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                    > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                    > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                    > > true."
                    > >
                    > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                    > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                    > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                    > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                    > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                    > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                    > > "The Wisdom Notes."
                    > >
                    > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                    > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                    > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                    > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                    > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                    > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                    > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                    > > believe in some universal force whether called
                    > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                    > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                    > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                    > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                    > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                    > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                    > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                    > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                    > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                    > > action" of his followers."
                    > >
                    > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                    > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                    > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                    > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                    > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                    > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                    > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                    > >
                    > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                    > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                    > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                    > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                    > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                    > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                    > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                    > >
                    > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                    > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                    > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                    > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                    > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                    > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                    > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                    > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                    > > title and definition.
                    > >
                    > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                    > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                    > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                    > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                    > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                    > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                    > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                    > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                    > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                    > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                    > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                    > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                    > > straight!
                    > >
                    > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                    > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                    > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                    > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                    > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                    > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                    > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                    > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                    > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                    > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                    > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                    > > 970th LEM, was from.
                    > >
                    > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                    > > wanted to present more details than what
                    > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                    > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                    > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                    > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                    > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                    > > and distortions.
                    > >
                    > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                    > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                    > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                    > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                    > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                    > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                    > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                    > >
                    > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                    > > will deny this, but they share the same
                    > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                    > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                    > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                    > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                    > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                    > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                    > > where ECKists have made fun of the
                    > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                    > > would seem that they are laughing
                    > > at themselves and don't realize it!
                    > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                    > > to do critical thinking and Not being
                    > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                    > > still ECKists.
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                  • ctecvie
                    Hi Prometheus, ... ***In Austria, it s only the Catholic church. As far as I know, Lutherans don t pay anything. And no, I didn t pay any tex when I was a
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 5, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Prometheus,

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Ingrid,
                      > I was curious if you know how
                      > many countries force people to
                      > pay a tax for church membership?
                      ***In Austria it's the Catholic church. I don't know if there are any other countries but I think that in Germany a church tax is deduced directly from the salary if you are a member of that particular church - I think it's the Lutherans.

                      > Which countries and which churches
                      > does it include? Why are these
                      > governments forcing people to
                      > pay this tax?
                      ***In Austria, it's not the government but the Catholic church itself. Once you start working and are a Catholic, they come inevitably and charge you a fee. You need to give proof of your salary because if you don't they'll just charge you any amount that comes them to mind. I left the Catholic church in 1986, so no more hassle since that time! If you try to disappear, they'll find you somehow.

                      >Are the churches that
                      > powerful, or is the government taking
                      > their cut too?
                      ***Not in Austria, no.
                      >Is it just the Catholic and
                      > Lutheran churches? Were you forced
                      > to pay a tax due to Eckankar membership?
                      ***In Austria, it's only the Catholic church. As far as I know, Lutherans don't pay anything. And no, I didn't pay any tex when I was a member of eckankar.
                      Ingrid

                      >
                      > Forgive the questions but I've heard
                      > something about this happening in
                      > Germany.
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                      >
                      > ctecvie wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Prometheus,
                      >
                      > yes the "feel good" factor is another
                      > important issue why people need
                      > religions. Isn't it just great to feel
                      > like the ones who will be "saved"
                      > because they belong to the "right"
                      > group of people and to just know
                      > it all? It's really so good to look
                      > down on the poor devils who haven't
                      > figured it out for themselves
                      > ... :-D
                      >
                      > And the karma thingie in eckankar
                      > is the same thing as the original sin
                      > of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened
                      > their eyes, they could see that very easily!
                      > LOL!
                      >
                      > Ingrid
                      >
                      > prometheus wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Ingrid and All,
                      > > Yes, all religions take our money
                      > > in one way or another. All of us pay
                      > > for their Holy Wars that they wage
                      > > upon the rest of us. Their members
                      > > also pay for future promises and to
                      > > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
                      > > while looking down their noses at
                      > > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
                      > > interesting that so many of them
                      > > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
                      > > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
                      > > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
                      > > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
                      > > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                      > >
                      > > ctecvie wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Prometheus and all,
                      > >
                      > > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                      > > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
                      > > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
                      > > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
                      > > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
                      > > money!
                      > >
                      > > Ingrid
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > prometheus wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hello All,
                      > > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                      > > >
                      > > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                      > > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                      > > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                      > > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                      > > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                      > > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                      > > >
                      > > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                      > > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                      > > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                      > > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                      > > >
                      > > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                      > > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                      > > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                      > > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                      > > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                      > > > eckankar.org
                      > > >
                      > > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                      > > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                      > > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                      > > > lied as to how many times he traveled
                      > > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                      > > > Twit ever travelled to India!
                      > > >
                      > > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                      > > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                      > > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                      > > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                      > > >
                      > > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                      > > > conned people and that Klemp is still
                      > > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                      > > > But, should anyone be surprised when
                      > > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                      > > > gullible and loving people? Most people
                      > > > want to believe and they want to believe
                      > > > the best in whatever or whomever.
                      > > > Everyone has to figure out what category
                      > > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                      > > > are manmade just as religions are.
                      > > >
                      > > > Prometheus
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > prometheus wrote:
                      > > > Hello Etznab and All,
                      > > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                      > > > Living ECK Master" are historical
                      > > > transcriptions from private tapings
                      > > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                      > > >
                      > > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                      > > > made private tapings of his struggles
                      > > > before and after his acceptance
                      > > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                      > > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                      > > > who presented these tapes to Sri
                      > > > Darwin.)"
                      > > >
                      > > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                      > > > Twitchell tells his story of being
                      > > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                      > > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                      > > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                      > > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                      > > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                      > > > lie! Marman states that this was
                      > > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                      > > > as Paul would have us to believe.
                      > > >
                      > > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                      > > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                      > > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                      > > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                      > > > his "grand achievements" to get
                      > > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                      > > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                      > > > (France) nor to India at age 15
                      > > > in 1923!
                      > > >
                      > > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Twit states:
                      > > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                      > > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                      > > > six to seven months being taught
                      > > > and learning the works of ECK...
                      > > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                      > > >
                      > > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                      > > > the "Mahanta" once during these
                      > > > months!
                      > > >
                      > > > PT: "I had already been initiated
                      > > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                      > > > the same as everybody else, the
                      > > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                      > > >
                      > > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                      > > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                      > > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                      > > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                      > > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                      > > > 1955-65. They even have the same
                      > > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                      > > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                      > > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                      > > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                      > > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                      > > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                      > > >
                      > > > ***
                      > > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                      > > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                      > > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                      > > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                      > > > Page.
                      > > >
                      > > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                      > > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                      > > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                      > > > how PT's birthday corresponds
                      > > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                      > > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                      > > > ***
                      > > >
                      > > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                      > > > Fourth, I went up through About
                      > > > the Seventh at this particular time
                      > > > (pg. 71)."
                      > > >
                      > > > ME: How does one go up to
                      > > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                      > > > Wouldn't a person remember
                      > > > what initiation it was if it were
                      > > > true? This is just more proof
                      > > > that Twit was lying once again!
                      > > >
                      > > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                      > > > on this trip, I followed him up
                      > > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                      > > > and I got the finish (12th) of
                      > > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                      > > >
                      > > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                      > > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                      > > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                      > > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                      > > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                      > > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                      > > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                      > > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                      > > > Jan. 1, 1969.
                      > > >
                      > > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                      > > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                      > > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                      > > > right? I just can't figure out what it
                      > > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                      > > >
                      > > > Prometheus
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > etznab wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                      > > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                      > > >
                      > > > There were other early books that didn't mention
                      > > > it either, if I remember correctly.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > prometheus wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hello Etznab and All,
                      > > > I started another thread for this discussion.
                      > > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                      > > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                      > > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                      > > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                      > > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                      > > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                      > > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                      > > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                      > > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                      > > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                      > > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                      > > > delude its followers.
                      > > >
                      > > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                      > > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                      > > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                      > > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                      > > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                      > > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                      > > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                      > > > Four More Years that this information (if we
                      > > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                      > > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                      > > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                      > > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                      > > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                      > > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                      > > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                      > > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                      > > > gap, 1965-1969?
                      > > >
                      > > > Prometheus
                      > > >
                      > > > Hello Etznab,
                      > > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                      > > > Twitchell claims to have received the
                      > > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                      > > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                      > > > have trouble remembering the details
                      > > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                      > > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                      > > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                      > > > created or started the "outer church"
                      > > > on this date. This way he'd remember
                      > > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                      > > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                      > > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                      > > > history, on this date... his birthday!
                      > > >
                      > > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                      > > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                      > > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                      > > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                      > > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                      > > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                      > > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                      > > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                      > > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                      > > > of God.
                      > > >
                      > > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                      > > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                      > > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                      > > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                      > > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                      > > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                      > > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                      > > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                      > > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                      > > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                      > > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                      > > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                      > > > a past track record of lying has been verified
                      > > > by Klemp.
                      > > >
                      > > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                      > > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                      > > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                      > > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                      > > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                      > > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                      > > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                      > > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                      > > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                      > > >
                      > > > If one has paid attention they will see that
                      > > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                      > > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                      > > > as well. Just look at the differences and
                      > > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                      > > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                      > > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                      > > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                      > > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                      > > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                      > > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                      > > >
                      > > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                      > > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                      > > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                      > > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                      > > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                      > > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                      > > >
                      > > > Prometheus
                      > > >
                      > > > etznab wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > hat was interesting what you said about
                      > > > "Mahanta".
                      > > >
                      > > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                      > > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                      > > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                      > > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                      > > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                      > > >
                      > > > Was that the date?
                      > > >
                      > > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                      > > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                      > > > for books after that date.
                      > > >
                      > > > The Flute of God came out in installments
                      > > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                      > > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                      > > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                      > > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                      > > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                      > > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                      > > >
                      > > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                      > > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                      > > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                      > > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                      > > > various other forms of "Master".
                      > > >
                      > > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                      > > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                      > > >
                      > > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                      > > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                      > > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                      > > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                      > > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                      > > > The Flute of God).
                      > > >
                      > > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                      > > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                      > > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                      > > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                      > > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                      > > >
                      > > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                      > > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                      > > >
                      > > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                      > > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                      > > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                      > > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                      > > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                      > > >
                      > > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                      > > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                      > > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                      > > >
                      > > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                      > > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                      > > > "Mahanta" topic.
                      > > >
                      > > > Etznab
                      > > >
                      > > > prometheus wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hello All,
                      > > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                      > > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                      > > >
                      > > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                      > > >
                      > > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                      > > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                      > > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                      > > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                      > > > true."
                      > > >
                      > > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                      > > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                      > > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                      > > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                      > > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                      > > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                      > > > "The Wisdom Notes."
                      > > >
                      > > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                      > > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                      > > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                      > > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                      > > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                      > > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                      > > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                      > > > believe in some universal force whether called
                      > > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                      > > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                      > > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                      > > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                      > > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                      > > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                      > > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                      > > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                      > > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                      > > > action" of his followers."
                      > > >
                      > > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                      > > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                      > > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                      > > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                      > > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                      > > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                      > > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                      > > >
                      > > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                      > > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                      > > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                      > > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                      > > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                      > > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                      > > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                      > > >
                      > > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                      > > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                      > > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                      > > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                      > > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                      > > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                      > > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                      > > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                      > > > title and definition.
                      > > >
                      > > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                      > > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                      > > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                      > > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                      > > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                      > > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                      > > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                      > > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                      > > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                      > > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                      > > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                      > > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                      > > > straight!
                      > > >
                      > > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                      > > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                      > > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                      > > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                      > > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                      > > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                      > > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                      > > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                      > > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                      > > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                      > > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                      > > > 970th LEM, was from.
                      > > >
                      > > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                      > > > wanted to present more details than what
                      > > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                      > > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                      > > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                      > > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                      > > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                      > > > and distortions.
                      > > >
                      > > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                      > > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                      > > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                      > > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                      > > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                      > > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                      > > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                      > > >
                      > > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                      > > > will deny this, but they share the same
                      > > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                      > > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                      > > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                      > > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                      > > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                      > > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                      > > > where ECKists have made fun of the
                      > > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                      > > > would seem that they are laughing
                      > > > at themselves and don't realize it!
                      > > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                      > > > to do critical thinking and Not being
                      > > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                      > > > still ECKists.
                      > > >
                      > > > Prometheus
                      >
                    • prometheus_973
                      Hello All, It seems that all religions represent the original pyramid scheme via their hierarchies. Those ECK Vahanas are sales people who have a vested
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 6, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hello All,
                        It seems that all religions represent
                        the original pyramid scheme via
                        their hierarchies. Those ECK Vahanas
                        are sales people who have a vested
                        interest in the company. They have
                        something to gain by selling their
                        products (Eckankar materials and
                        memberships). Their payment is
                        prestige, hope, belief, promises,
                        and initiation points while Klemp
                        and company acquire more money
                        and influence/power over their
                        subjects.

                        And, it's clear that ECKists can't
                        voice displeasure with the way
                        things are done because that would
                        be "negative."

                        Besides, there are repercussions
                        for voicing an honest assessment
                        of those "above" them. No ECKist
                        wants to be Black Listed on initiations
                        or on positions and titles within the
                        hierarchy. No one wants to be shunned,
                        but it does happen. These are just
                        part of the control and fear tactics
                        used. Thus, Silence, Service and
                        Surrender become the three keys
                        for Klemp's Success!

                        Prometheus




                        prometheus wrote:

                        Hi Ingrid and All,
                        Yes, all religions take our money
                        in one way or another. All of us pay
                        for their Holy Wars that they wage
                        upon the rest of us. Their members
                        also pay for future promises and to
                        feel good and all puffed-up, now,
                        while looking down their noses at
                        all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
                        interesting that so many of them
                        believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
                        dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
                        Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
                        that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
                        (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).

                        Prometheus

                        ctecvie wrote:

                        Hi Prometheus and all,

                        commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                        Religions pretend that they can give answers to
                        questions that cannot be answered. We need to
                        accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
                        And that's where religions come in and take (our)
                        money!

                        Ingrid


                        prometheus wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello All,
                        > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                        >
                        > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                        > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                        > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                        > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                        > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                        > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                        >
                        > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                        > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                        > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                        > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                        >
                        > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                        > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                        > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                        > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                        > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                        > eckankar.org
                        >
                        > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                        > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                        > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                        > lied as to how many times he traveled
                        > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                        > Twit ever travelled to India!
                        >
                        > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                        > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                        > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                        > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                        >
                        > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                        > conned people and that Klemp is still
                        > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                        > But, should anyone be surprised when
                        > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                        > gullible and loving people? Most people
                        > want to believe and they want to believe
                        > the best in whatever or whomever.
                        > Everyone has to figure out what category
                        > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                        > are manmade just as religions are.
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        >
                        > prometheus wrote:
                        > Hello Etznab and All,
                        > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                        > Living ECK Master" are historical
                        > transcriptions from private tapings
                        > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                        >
                        > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                        > made private tapings of his struggles
                        > before and after his acceptance
                        > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                        > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                        > who presented these tapes to Sri
                        > Darwin.)"
                        >
                        > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                        > Twitchell tells his story of being
                        > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                        > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                        > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                        > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                        > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                        > lie! Marman states that this was
                        > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                        > as Paul would have us to believe.
                        >
                        > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                        > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                        > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                        > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                        > his "grand achievements" to get
                        > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                        > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                        > (France) nor to India at age 15
                        > in 1923!
                        >
                        http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Twit states:
                        > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                        > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                        > six to seven months being taught
                        > and learning the works of ECK...
                        > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                        >
                        > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                        > the "Mahanta" once during these
                        > months!
                        >
                        > PT: "I had already been initiated
                        > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                        > the same as everybody else, the
                        > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                        >
                        > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                        > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                        > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                        > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                        > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                        > 1955-65. They even have the same
                        > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                        > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                        > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                        > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                        > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                        > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                        >
                        > ***
                        > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                        > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                        > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                        > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                        > Page.
                        >
                        > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                        > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                        > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                        > how PT's birthday corresponds
                        > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                        > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                        > ***
                        >
                        > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                        > Fourth, I went up through About
                        > the Seventh at this particular time
                        > (pg. 71)."
                        >
                        > ME: How does one go up to
                        > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                        > Wouldn't a person remember
                        > what initiation it was if it were
                        > true? This is just more proof
                        > that Twit was lying once again!
                        >
                        > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                        > on this trip, I followed him up
                        > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                        > and I got the finish (12th) of
                        > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                        >
                        > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                        > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                        > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                        > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                        > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                        > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                        > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                        > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                        > Jan. 1, 1969.
                        >
                        > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                        > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                        > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                        > right? I just can't figure out what it
                        > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        >
                        > etznab wrote:
                        >
                        > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                        > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                        >
                        > There were other early books that didn't mention
                        > it either, if I remember correctly.
                        >
                        >
                        > prometheus wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Etznab and All,
                        > I started another thread for this discussion.
                        > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                        > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                        > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                        > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                        > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                        > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                        > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                        > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                        > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                        > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                        > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                        > delude its followers.
                        >
                        > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                        > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                        > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                        > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                        > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                        > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                        > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                        > Four More Years that this information (if we
                        > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                        > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                        > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                        > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                        > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                        > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                        > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                        > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                        > gap, 1965-1969?
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        > Hello Etznab,
                        > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                        > Twitchell claims to have received the
                        > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                        > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                        > have trouble remembering the details
                        > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                        > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                        > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                        > created or started the "outer church"
                        > on this date. This way he'd remember
                        > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                        > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                        > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                        > history, on this date... his birthday!
                        >
                        > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                        > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                        > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                        > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                        > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                        > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                        > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                        > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                        > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                        > of God.
                        >
                        > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                        > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                        > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                        > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                        > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                        > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                        > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                        > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                        > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                        > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                        > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                        > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                        > a past track record of lying has been verified
                        > by Klemp.
                        >
                        > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                        > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                        > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                        > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                        > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                        > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                        > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                        > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                        > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                        >
                        > If one has paid attention they will see that
                        > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                        > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                        > as well. Just look at the differences and
                        > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                        > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                        > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                        > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                        > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                        > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                        > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                        >
                        > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                        > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                        > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                        > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                        > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                        > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        > etznab wrote:
                        >
                        > hat was interesting what you said about
                        > "Mahanta".
                        >
                        > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                        > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                        > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                        > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                        > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                        >
                        > Was that the date?
                        >
                        > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                        > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                        > for books after that date.
                        >
                        > The Flute of God came out in installments
                        > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                        > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                        > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                        > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                        > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                        > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                        >
                        > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                        > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                        > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                        > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                        > various other forms of "Master".
                        >
                        > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                        > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                        >
                        > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                        > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                        > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                        > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                        > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                        > The Flute of God).
                        >
                        > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                        > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                        > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                        > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                        > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                        >
                        > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                        > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                        >
                        > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                        > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                        > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                        > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                        > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                        >
                        > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                        > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                        > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                        >
                        > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                        > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                        > "Mahanta" topic.
                        >
                        > Etznab
                        >
                        > prometheus wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello All,
                        > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                        > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                        >
                        > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                        >
                        > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                        > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                        > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                        > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                        > true."
                        >
                        > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                        > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                        > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                        > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                        > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                        > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                        > "The Wisdom Notes."
                        >
                        > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                        > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                        > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                        > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                        > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                        > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                        > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                        > believe in some universal force whether called
                        > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                        > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                        > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                        > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                        > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                        > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                        > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                        > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                        > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                        > action" of his followers."
                        >
                        > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                        > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                        > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                        > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                        > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                        > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                        > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                        >
                        > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                        > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                        > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                        > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                        > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                        > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                        > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                        >
                        > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                        > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                        > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                        > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                        > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                        > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                        > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                        > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                        > title and definition.
                        >
                        > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                        > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                        > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                        > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                        > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                        > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                        > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                        > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                        > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                        > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                        > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                        > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                        > straight!
                        >
                        > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                        > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                        > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                        > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                        > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                        > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                        > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                        > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                        > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                        > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                        > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                        > 970th LEM, was from.
                        >
                        > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                        > wanted to present more details than what
                        > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                        > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                        > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                        > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                        > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                        > and distortions.
                        >
                        > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                        > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                        > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                        > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                        > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                        > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                        > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                        >
                        > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                        > will deny this, but they share the same
                        > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                        > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                        > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                        > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                        > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                        > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                        > where ECKists have made fun of the
                        > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                        > would seem that they are laughing
                        > at themselves and don't realize it!
                        > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                        > to do critical thinking and Not being
                        > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                        > still ECKists.
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                      • prometheus_973
                        Twitchell s Last Mystic World Article July-August-September 1971 [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM, pages 251-254] Up until his last days Twitchell was still
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 6, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Twitchell's Last Mystic World Article
                          July-August-September 1971
                          [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
                          pages 251-254]

                          Up until his last days Twitchell was
                          still conning people and rewriting
                          his and ECKankar's history (in third
                          person) in order to give validation
                          to his outlandish claims/lies/dogma.
                          And, for some reason people believed
                          it! However, Why don't some of these
                          same people who bought into it then,
                          don't now? Where's Klemp's Virgin
                          Birth that would qualify him as a
                          "Mahanta?" Klemp was born the
                          second child. Is Twitchell lying about
                          these details?


                          "During the early part of the seventeenth
                          century, four ECK spiritual masters
                          who serve in the spiritual hierarchy,
                          met in the ancient sacred city of Agam
                          Des in the Himalayan Mountains.

                          They were:

                          Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam, the
                          great deity of the fifth world,
                          commonly called the Soul Plane;

                          Rebazar Tarzs, emissary for the
                          ECK in the physical universe today;

                          Gopal Das, spiritual master at the
                          Golden Wisdom Temple on the Astral
                          Plane and

                          Yaubl Sacabi, spiritual head of
                          the ancient city of Agam Des."

                          ME: BTW- Ramaj is actually Rama.
                          And, in the Spiritual Notebook, 10th
                          printing, Twitchell calls him Ramaji
                          on page 196.

                          PT: "They met to discuss the birth
                          of the coming AVATAR for the twentieth
                          century [himself, Paul Twitchell], Peddar
                          Zaskq. Born in the Caucasian mountains
                          during the Seventeenth Century, he lived
                          and was trained to the heights of spiritual
                          perfection."

                          ME: And yet, even when he was reborn
                          as Paul Twitchell he had no knowledge
                          of the "Mahanta" Consciousness nor
                          for 18 years After his 12th Initiation,
                          by Rebazar (1951), to ECK Master status!

                          PT: "Given several years in the Art
                          of Silence and Darkness he gained
                          Enlightenment in Preparation for his
                          return to the Twentieth Century. When
                          the time came for his demise, he passed
                          away still looking the same youthful
                          appearance yet beyond the normal
                          age of man."

                          ME: Was Peddar's study in the "Art
                          of Darkness" preparation for becoming
                          a liar and deceiver and a practitioner
                          of the Black Arts as a Black Magician?
                          It seems this was a Freudian slip on
                          PT's part.

                          PT: "He was prepared for entering
                          into the world again to take up his
                          mission. The four great ECK Masters
                          met once more, but this time at the
                          Sakipura Monastery in the vast
                          mountains of the northern Himalayas.

                          This time the ancient prediction that
                          a New World Avatar would be born
                          on a great body of water, near the
                          shores where horses grazed was
                          to become true. This time Peddar
                          Zaskq was born on a Mississippi
                          river packet enroute to New Orleans.

                          The Miraculous Birth took place
                          just below the city of Natchez,
                          Mississippi near a stock farm.
                          At the time of his birth, a great
                          earthquake shook the Mississippi
                          valley, forming a vast body of
                          lakes in western Tennessee.

                          There appeared a BLUE CARNATION
                          in a vase on a night table by the
                          mother's bed."

                          ME: This Blue Carnation symbol
                          of the Mahanta Consciousness
                          was created by Twitchell after-the-
                          fact with 20/20 hindsight. This is
                          another rewrite by Twitchell. If he
                          did have the "Mahanta Consciousness"
                          then why didn't he mention it prior
                          to 1969? This 1971 pub is to rectify
                          that mistake and act as a cover-up.

                          PT: "The work of the Hierarchy
                          was completed except for the training
                          of Peddar Zaskq. It was immediately
                          arranged for him to be given a home
                          in which to be raised.

                          His Foster Parents raised him in a
                          small souther river town [Paducah,
                          Kentucky]. He adopted their name
                          and became known as Paul Twitchell
                          in the Twentieth Century."

                          ME: Isn't this a different story from
                          what Klemp has mentioned? Klemp
                          and Marman, both, have suggested
                          that Paul's father had an affair and
                          that he was allowed to take Paul and
                          raise him. Thus, the other children
                          were Paul's half-brothers and sisters
                          and his mother was his step-mother.
                          Paul told this lie in order to have a
                          virgin birth like Jesus and other
                          Avatars, and to establish the "Blue
                          Carnation" of the Mahanta connection.
                          This is, also, why Darwin stated that
                          Paul was the only Mahanta for the
                          next thousand years. DG didn't have
                          a "virgin birth" and neither did Klemp!

                          PT: "He [Paul Twitchell aka Peddar
                          Zaskq] looked and acted and was
                          raised accordingly like any American
                          child, except for his enormous knowledge
                          and ability to do Soul Travel."

                          ME: Once again, Twit is selling himself.
                          Snake oil anyone? It's "blue" too!

                          PT: "None knew much about him for
                          he kept to himself. His companion in
                          these years was his Stepsister who
                          gave him much of his knowledge on
                          Soul Travel. She acted as the instrument
                          through which the divine power flowed
                          to open his consciousness to God
                          again, and acted as his guide until
                          ECK Masters were able to take over."

                          ME: So, I wonder what initiation level
                          Paul's stepsister (Kay-Dee) was? That's
                          probably another story (lie). But, Wow!
                          Paul was really unloading a pile of B.S.
                          wasn't he! It's no wonder Klemp had Peter
                          Skelsky round up and destroy all of these
                          copies of "Difficulties of Becoming the
                          Living ECK Master." Does Marman believe
                          that the true, one and only, Mahanta
                          has to be born of a Virgin like Twitchell
                          states? Or, does Marman think Paul was
                          lying about his Virgin Birth like he did
                          with "Paris."

                          PT: "The rest of his story is told in
                          fragments of his first visit to Paris
                          to be with his stepsister, who was
                          in training to be an artist. It was here
                          that he [Paul/Peddar] first met Sudar
                          [Kirpal] Singh, an ECK Master, and
                          followed him to India with his stepsister
                          to study ECK[ankar].

                          Later as a young man, he returned
                          to India and set out to find Rebazar
                          Tarzs, the ancient Tibetan ECK Master,
                          near Darjeeling. It was here that the
                          contact was made with the great ECK
                          emissary and his training taken over
                          to prepare him for world leadership
                          in spiritual affairs. July-August-September
                          1971"

                          Prometheus


                          prometheus wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello All,
                          > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                          >
                          > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                          > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                          > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                          > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                          > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                          > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                          >
                          > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                          > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                          > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                          > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                          >
                          > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                          > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                          > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                          > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                          > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                          > eckankar.org
                          >
                          > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                          > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                          > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                          > lied as to how many times he traveled
                          > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                          > Twit ever travelled to India!
                          >
                          > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                          > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                          > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                          > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                          >
                          > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                          > conned people and that Klemp is still
                          > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                          > But, should anyone be surprised when
                          > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                          > gullible and loving people? Most people
                          > want to believe and they want to believe
                          > the best in whatever or whomever.
                          > Everyone has to figure out what category
                          > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                          > are manmade just as religions are.
                          >
                          > Prometheus
                          >
                          >
                          > prometheus wrote:
                          > Hello Etznab and All,
                          > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                          > Living ECK Master" are historical
                          > transcriptions from private tapings
                          > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                          >
                          > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                          > made private tapings of his struggles
                          > before and after his acceptance
                          > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                          > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                          > who presented these tapes to Sri
                          > Darwin.)"
                          >
                          > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                          > Twitchell tells his story of being
                          > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                          > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                          > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                          > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                          > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                          > lie! Marman states that this was
                          > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                          > as Paul would have us to believe.
                          >
                          > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                          > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                          > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                          > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                          > his "grand achievements" to get
                          > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                          > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                          > (France) nor to India at age 15
                          > in 1923!
                          >
                          http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Twit states:
                          > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                          > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                          > six to seven months being taught
                          > and learning the works of ECK...
                          > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                          >
                          > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                          > the "Mahanta" once during these
                          > months!
                          >
                          > PT: "I had already been initiated
                          > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                          > the same as everybody else, the
                          > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                          >
                          > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                          > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                          > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                          > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                          > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                          > 1955-65. They even have the same
                          > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                          > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                          > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                          > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                          > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                          > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                          >
                          > ***
                          > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                          > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                          > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                          > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                          > Page.
                          >
                          > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                          > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                          > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                          > how PT's birthday corresponds
                          > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                          > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                          > ***
                          >
                          > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                          > Fourth, I went up through About
                          > the Seventh at this particular time
                          > (pg. 71)."
                          >
                          > ME: How does one go up to
                          > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                          > Wouldn't a person remember
                          > what initiation it was if it were
                          > true? This is just more proof
                          > that Twit was lying once again!
                          >
                          > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                          > on this trip, I followed him up
                          > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                          > and I got the finish (12th) of
                          > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                          >
                          > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                          > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                          > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                          > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                          > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                          > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                          > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                          > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                          > Jan. 1, 1969.
                          >
                          > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                          > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                          > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                          > right? I just can't figure out what it
                          > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                          >
                          > Prometheus
                          >
                          >
                          > etznab wrote:
                          >
                          > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                          > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                          >
                          > There were other early books that didn't mention
                          > it either, if I remember correctly.
                          >
                          >
                          > prometheus wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello Etznab and All,
                          > I started another thread for this discussion.
                          > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                          > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                          > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                          > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                          > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                          > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                          > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                          > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                          > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                          > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                          > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                          > delude its followers.
                          >
                          > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                          > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                          > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                          > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                          > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                          > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                          > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                          > Four More Years that this information (if we
                          > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                          > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                          > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                          > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                          > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                          > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                          > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                          > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                          > gap, 1965-1969?
                          >
                          > Prometheus
                          >
                          > Hello Etznab,
                          > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                          > Twitchell claims to have received the
                          > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                          > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                          > have trouble remembering the details
                          > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                          > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                          > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                          > created or started the "outer church"
                          > on this date. This way he'd remember
                          > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                          > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                          > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                          > history, on this date... his birthday!
                          >
                          > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                          > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                          > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                          > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                          > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                          > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                          > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                          > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                          > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                          > of God.
                          >
                          > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                          > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                          > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                          > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                          > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                          > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                          > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                          > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                          > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                          > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                          > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                          > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                          > a past track record of lying has been verified
                          > by Klemp.
                          >
                          > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                          > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                          > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                          > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                          > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                          > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                          > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                          > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                          > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                          >
                          > If one has paid attention they will see that
                          > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                          > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                          > as well. Just look at the differences and
                          > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                          > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                          > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                          > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                          > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                          > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                          > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                          >
                          > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                          > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                          > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                          > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                          > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                          > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                          >
                          > Prometheus
                          >
                          > etznab wrote:
                          >
                          > hat was interesting what you said about
                          > "Mahanta".
                          >
                          > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                          > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                          > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                          > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                          > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                          >
                          > Was that the date?
                          >
                          > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                          > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                          > for books after that date.
                          >
                          > The Flute of God came out in installments
                          > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                          > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                          > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                          > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                          > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                          > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                          >
                          > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                          > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                          > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                          > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                          > various other forms of "Master".
                          >
                          > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                          > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                          >
                          > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                          > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                          > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                          > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                          > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                          > The Flute of God).
                          >
                          > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                          > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                          > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                          > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                          > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                          >
                          > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                          > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                          >
                          > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                          > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                          > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                          > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                          > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                          >
                          > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                          > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                          > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                          >
                          > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                          > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                          > "Mahanta" topic.
                          >
                          > Etznab
                          >
                          > prometheus wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello All,
                          > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                          > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                          >
                          > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                          >
                          > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                          > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                          > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                          > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                          > true."
                          >
                          > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                          > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                          > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                          > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                          > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                          > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                          > "The Wisdom Notes."
                          >
                          > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                          > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                          > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                          > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                          > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                          > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                          > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                          > believe in some universal force whether called
                          > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                          > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                          > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                          > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                          > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                          > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                          > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                          > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                          > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                          > action" of his followers."
                          >
                          > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                          > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                          > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                          > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                          > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                          > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                          > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                          >
                          > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                          > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                          > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                          > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                          > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                          > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                          > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                          >
                          > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                          > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                          > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                          > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                          > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                          > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                          > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                          > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                          > title and definition.
                          >
                          > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                          > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                          > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                          > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                          > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                          > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                          > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                          > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                          > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                          > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                          > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                          > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                          > straight!
                          >
                          > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                          > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                          > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                          > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                          > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                          > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                          > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                          > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                          > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                          > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                          > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                          > 970th LEM, was from.
                          >
                          > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                          > wanted to present more details than what
                          > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                          > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                          > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                          > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                          > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                          > and distortions.
                          >
                          > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                          > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                          > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                          > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                          > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                          > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                          > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                          >
                          > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                          > will deny this, but they share the same
                          > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                          > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                          > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                          > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                          > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                          > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                          > where ECKists have made fun of the
                          > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                          > would seem that they are laughing
                          > at themselves and don't realize it!
                          > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                          > to do critical thinking and Not being
                          > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                          > still ECKists.
                          >
                          > Prometheus
                          >
                        • prometheus_973
                          Here s more to verify the Virgin Birth requirement for the Mahanta. This can be found in the Holy Books of ECKankar, The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Books One & Two
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 7, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Here's more to verify the "Virgin
                            Birth" requirement for the Mahanta.
                            This can be found in the Holy Books
                            of ECKankar, "The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
                            Books One & Two" (copyright 2000)
                            pages 111-112. Or, check the index
                            of the Shariyat One under "Mahanta,
                            birth of."

                            BTW- The following information is
                            found in Book One of the Shariyat.

                            The Foreword, on page x, states:

                            "Book One is the first section of these
                            works, which was dictated by FUBBI
                            QUANTZ, the great ECK Master who
                            serves at the Katsupari Monastery
                            in Northern Tibet.

                            ME: Remember, too, Klemp was the
                            "SECOND" Child Born to his mother.

                            "The Mahanta is Always born near
                            or on a large body of water. His
                            Birth is Always Mysterious, and
                            men of ordinary birth Do Not Know
                            his Origin. NOR does any man know
                            who his sires might be, their true
                            names, or their true origin."

                            ME: Since we know Klemp's origins
                            (the Fremont, WI. area) and who his
                            parents were (he spoke of them in
                            his books and these were his REAL
                            parents) we can see that, already,
                            Klemp Doesn't fulfill the requirements
                            listed above.

                            "The ECK enters into the womb
                            of a VIRGIN, the Queen of Heaven,
                            who has submitted to the True Spirit
                            of the universe. The Consciousness
                            of the Mahanta State is planted as
                            the seed and carefully nurtured in
                            the womb. When the embodiment
                            of flesh is brought into this world,
                            a man-child is born."

                            As I pointed out, Klemp had an
                            older brother, Dwayne, therefore
                            HK could Not have had a "Virgin
                            Birth" and according to Fubbi, and
                            this "Holy" Shariyat, Klemp Does
                            Not meet this criteria either.

                            On the other hand, Klemp had
                            pointed out that Twitchell had
                            lied in 1935, at the age of 27,
                            to get into Who's Who. It could
                            be that Twitchell was still lying,
                            here, in 1970 when this Shariyat
                            One was Copyrighted. However,
                            this would simply point out that
                            everything (the ECK Masters, the
                            Mahanta, and the whole foundation
                            of ECKankar is built upon is lies!

                            So, ECKists either have to turn a
                            Blind-Eye to this, as they have in
                            the past, or they have to ask the
                            hard questions:

                            1) Is Twitchell, or Fubbi, lying about
                            the "Virgin Birth" Mahanta Requirements?
                            If Paul is lying then he's, also, lying
                            about Fubbi's existence!

                            OR

                            2) If Twitchell, or Fubbi, were telling
                            the Truth about the Mahanta needing
                            to be Born by a Virgin then Klemp
                            is lying about being the Mahanta!

                            Really, is Eckankar's Holy Book
                            wrong? Or, did "Fubbi" distort the
                            truth? Is Fubbi another lie of Paul's?
                            What else is a distortion? Klemp
                            can't claim that Fubbi was using
                            "artistic license" or can he? Klemp
                            seems to exaggerate and twist facts
                            as much as, or more, than Twitchell.

                            BTW-Catch-22 is double-speak
                            and means that HK can change the
                            rules, or the interpretation of the
                            rules anytime he wants. His "Con"
                            is higher than yours, thus, you wouldn't
                            understand even he he tried to explain
                            it because he has to "lower" it by
                            using 4th Mental Plane thoughts
                            and words. It's a blank check.

                            Yes, Klemp Did have the opportunity
                            to edit this "Virgin Birth" Mahanta
                            requirement out in 2000, but didn't!
                            Apparently, Klemp doesn't have the
                            need to do so. After all, ECKists will
                            believe anything he tells them.

                            Klemp did come up with the "Mahanta-
                            in-Training" excuse to explain that
                            Darwin (972th LEM) was Not a true
                            or "Full" (14th) Mahanta and, therefore,
                            it was okay for him (a 12th) and his
                            EK "Board" to depose/dispose of him.

                            However, Klemp can't explain away
                            the "Virgin Birth" scripture requirement.
                            Unless, Klemp really isn't a 14th "Full"
                            Mahanta and is still "in-training" for
                            this position for another future lifetime
                            just as Peddar Zaskq, supposedly, had
                            to do. Why has Klemp lied about being
                            a "Full" 14th Mahanta? Vanity!

                            Perhaps Klemp, too, has had the Rod
                            of ECK Power "BURN" him for not letting
                            go years earlier when he should have.
                            IMO (from an EK standpoint)-HK fell
                            from Grace circa 1990 and is, now, just
                            acting out the role with the support of
                            Joan and other cohorts at the ESC.

                            The truth is that they (Twitchell, Gross,
                            and Klemp) have all acted "AS IF" their
                            religious LEM/Mahanta roles were
                            "Spiritual." It wasn't/isn't! Eckankar is
                            just another religious con that attracts
                            those with a "New Age" belief system.
                            Even New Age people, who have turned
                            their backs on the large mass religions,
                            need something.Therefore, Eckankar
                            is an alternative for those with alternative
                            beliefs. People are social animals and
                            have a strong need to belong to some
                            group.

                            However, a religious "group consciousness,"
                            shaped by the leader, impedes one's
                            individual search and progress by lowering
                            it through conformity! It's rather ironic
                            that ECKists, and other New Agers, tend
                            to view themselves as "Non-Conformists."
                            Yet, ECKists, end up following rules, laws,
                            Zoas, Guidelines, and Scripture and anything
                            that Klemp tells them. Where is the Spiritual
                            Freedom there, or in needing to pay an
                            annual "membership" in order to receive
                            and maintain one's "spiritual" advancement
                            (initiations)? See! It all a con! But what choice
                            do ECKists have when they are too weak-
                            minded via fear tactics and brain-washing?

                            However, once they do leave Eckankar
                            they will feel a burden lifted from their
                            shoulders. The stress will leave! They
                            will now have increased moments of
                            "Contentment." And, a new Clarity of
                            mind and of Soul will be experienced
                            and revealed.

                            Prometheus


                            ***
                            Twitchell's Last Mystic World Article
                            July-August-September 1971
                            [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
                            pages 251-254]

                            Up until his last days Twitchell was
                            still conning people and rewriting
                            his and ECKankar's history (in third
                            person) in order to give validation
                            to his outlandish claims/lies/dogma.
                            And, for some reason people believed
                            it! However, Why don't some of these
                            same people who bought into it then,
                            don't now? Where's Klemp's Virgin
                            Birth that would qualify him as a
                            "Mahanta?" Klemp was born the
                            second child. Is Twitchell lying about
                            these details?


                            "During the early part of the seventeenth
                            century, four ECK spiritual masters
                            who serve in the spiritual hierarchy,
                            met in the ancient sacred city of Agam
                            Des in the Himalayan Mountains.

                            They were:

                            Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam, the
                            great deity of the fifth world,
                            commonly called the Soul Plane;

                            Rebazar Tarzs, emissary for the
                            ECK in the physical universe today;

                            Gopal Das, spiritual master at the
                            Golden Wisdom Temple on the Astral
                            Plane and

                            Yaubl Sacabi, spiritual head of
                            the ancient city of Agam Des."

                            ME: BTW- Ramaj is actually Rama.
                            And, in the Spiritual Notebook, 10th
                            printing, Twitchell calls him Ramaji
                            on page 196.

                            PT: "They met to discuss the birth
                            of the coming AVATAR for the twentieth
                            century [himself, Paul Twitchell], Peddar
                            Zaskq. Born in the Caucasian mountains
                            during the Seventeenth Century, he lived
                            and was trained to the heights of spiritual
                            perfection."

                            ME: And yet, even when he was reborn
                            as Paul Twitchell he had no knowledge
                            of the "Mahanta" Consciousness nor
                            for 18 years After his 12th Initiation,
                            by Rebazar (1951), to ECK Master status!

                            PT: "Given several years in the Art
                            of Silence and Darkness he gained
                            Enlightenment in Preparation for his
                            return to the Twentieth Century. When
                            the time came for his demise, he passed
                            away still looking the same youthful
                            appearance yet beyond the normal
                            age of man."

                            ME: Was Peddar's study in the "Art
                            of Darkness" preparation for becoming
                            a liar and deceiver and a practitioner
                            of the Black Arts as a Black Magician?
                            It seems this was a Freudian slip on
                            PT's part.

                            PT: "He was prepared for entering
                            into the world again to take up his
                            mission. The four great ECK Masters
                            met once more, but this time at the
                            Sakipura Monastery in the vast
                            mountains of the northern Himalayas.

                            This time the ancient prediction that
                            a New World Avatar would be born
                            on a great body of water, near the
                            shores where horses grazed was
                            to become true. This time Peddar
                            Zaskq was born on a Mississippi
                            river packet enroute to New Orleans.

                            The Miraculous Birth took place
                            just below the city of Natchez,
                            Mississippi near a stock farm.
                            At the time of his birth, a great
                            earthquake shook the Mississippi
                            valley, forming a vast body of
                            lakes in western Tennessee.

                            There appeared a BLUE CARNATION
                            in a vase on a night table by the
                            mother's bed."

                            ME: This Blue Carnation symbol
                            of the Mahanta Consciousness
                            was created by Twitchell after-the-
                            fact with 20/20 hindsight. This is
                            another rewrite by Twitchell. If he
                            did have the "Mahanta Consciousness"
                            then why didn't he mention it prior
                            to 1969? This 1971 pub is to rectify
                            that mistake and act as a cover-up.

                            PT: "The work of the Hierarchy
                            was completed except for the training
                            of Peddar Zaskq. It was immediately
                            arranged for him to be given a home
                            in which to be raised.

                            His Foster Parents raised him in a
                            small souther river town [Paducah,
                            Kentucky]. He adopted their name
                            and became known as Paul Twitchell
                            in the Twentieth Century."

                            ME: Isn't this a different story from
                            what Klemp has mentioned? Klemp
                            and Marman, both, have suggested
                            that Paul's father had an affair and
                            that he was allowed to take Paul and
                            raise him. Thus, the other children
                            were Paul's half-brothers and sisters
                            and his mother was his step-mother.
                            Paul told this lie in order to have a
                            virgin birth like Jesus and other
                            Avatars, and to establish the "Blue
                            Carnation" of the Mahanta connection.
                            This is, also, why Darwin stated that
                            Paul was the only Mahanta for the
                            next thousand years. DG didn't have
                            a "virgin birth" and neither did Klemp!

                            PT: "He [Paul Twitchell aka Peddar
                            Zaskq] looked and acted and was
                            raised accordingly like any American
                            child, except for his enormous knowledge
                            and ability to do Soul Travel."

                            ME: Once again, Twit is selling himself.
                            Snake oil anyone? It's "blue" too!

                            PT: "None knew much about him for
                            he kept to himself. His companion in
                            these years was his Stepsister who
                            gave him much of his knowledge on
                            Soul Travel. She acted as the instrument
                            through which the divine power flowed
                            to open his consciousness to God
                            again, and acted as his guide until
                            ECK Masters were able to take over."

                            ME: So, I wonder what initiation level
                            Paul's stepsister (Kay-Dee) was? That's
                            probably another story (lie). But, Wow!
                            Paul was really unloading a pile of B.S.
                            wasn't he! It's no wonder Klemp had Peter
                            Skelsky round up and destroy all of these
                            copies of "Difficulties of Becoming the
                            Living ECK Master." Does Marman believe
                            that the true, one and only, Mahanta
                            has to be born of a Virgin like Twitchell
                            states? Or, does Marman think Paul was
                            lying about his Virgin Birth like he did
                            with "Paris."

                            PT: "The rest of his story is told in
                            fragments of his first visit to Paris
                            to be with his stepsister, who was
                            in training to be an artist. It was here
                            that he [Paul/Peddar] first met Sudar
                            [Kirpal] Singh, an ECK Master, and
                            followed him to India with his stepsister
                            to study ECK[ankar].

                            Later as a young man, he returned
                            to India and set out to find Rebazar
                            Tarzs, the ancient Tibetan ECK Master,
                            near Darjeeling. It was here that the
                            contact was made with the great ECK
                            emissary and his training taken over
                            to prepare him for world leadership
                            in spiritual affairs. July-August-September
                            1971"

                            Prometheus


                            prometheus wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello All,
                            > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies
                            from Difficulties Of Becoming the LEM:
                            >
                            > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                            > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                            > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                            > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                            > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                            > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                            >
                            > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                            > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                            > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                            > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                            >
                            > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                            > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                            > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                            > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                            > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                            > eckankar.org
                            >
                            > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                            > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                            > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                            > lied as to how many times he traveled
                            > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                            > Twit ever travelled to India!
                            >
                            > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                            > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                            > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                            > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                            >
                            > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                            > conned people and that Klemp is still
                            > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                            > But, should anyone be surprised when
                            > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                            > gullible and loving people? Most people
                            > want to believe and they want to believe
                            > the best in whatever or whomever.
                            > Everyone has to figure out what category
                            > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                            > are manmade just as religions are.
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                            >
                            > prometheus wrote:

                            > Hello Etznab and All,
                            > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                            > Living ECK Master" are Historical
                            > Transcriptions from Private Tapings
                            > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                            >
                            > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                            > made private tapings of his struggles
                            > before and after his acceptance
                            > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                            > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                            > who presented these tapes to Sri
                            > Darwin.)"
                            >
                            > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                            > Twitchell tells his story of being
                            > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                            > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                            > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                            > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                            > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                            > lie! Marman states that this was
                            > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                            > as Paul would have us to believe.
                            >
                            > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                            > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                            > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                            > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                            > his "grand achievements" to get
                            > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                            > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                            > (France) nor to India at age 15
                            > in 1923!
                            >
                            http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Twit states:
                            > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                            > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                            > six to seven months being taught
                            > and learning the works of ECK...
                            > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                            >
                            > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                            > the "Mahanta" once during these
                            > months!
                            >
                            > PT: "I had already been initiated
                            > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                            > the same as everybody else, the
                            > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                            >
                            > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                            > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                            > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                            > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                            > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                            > 1955-65. They even have the same
                            > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                            > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                            > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                            > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                            > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                            > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                            >
                            > ***
                            > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                            > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                            > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                            > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                            > Page.
                            >
                            > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                            > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                            > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                            > how PT's birthday corresponds
                            > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                            > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                            > ***
                            >
                            > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                            > Fourth, I went up through About
                            > the Seventh at this particular time
                            > (pg. 71)."
                            >
                            > ME: How does one go up to
                            > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                            > Wouldn't a person remember
                            > what initiation it was if it were
                            > true? This is just more proof
                            > that Twit was lying once again!
                            >
                            > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                            > on this trip, I followed him up
                            > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                            > and I got the finish (12th) of
                            > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                            >
                            > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                            > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                            > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                            > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                            > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                            > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                            > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                            > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                            > Jan. 1, 1969.
                            >
                            > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                            > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                            > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                            > right? I just can't figure out what it
                            > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                            >
                            > etznab wrote:
                            >
                            > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                            > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                            >
                            > There were other early books that didn't mention
                            > it either, if I remember correctly.
                            >
                            >
                            > prometheus wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello Etznab and All,
                            > I started another thread for this discussion.
                            > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                            > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                            > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                            > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                            > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                            > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                            > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                            > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                            > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                            > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                            > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                            > delude its followers.
                            >
                            > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                            > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                            > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                            > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                            > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                            > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                            > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                            > Four More Years that this information (if we
                            > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                            > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                            > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                            > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                            > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                            > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                            > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                            > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                            > gap, 1965-1969?
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                            > Hello Etznab,
                            > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                            > Twitchell claims to have received the
                            > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                            > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                            > have trouble remembering the details
                            > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                            > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                            > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                            > created or started the "outer church"
                            > on this date. This way he'd remember
                            > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                            > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                            > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                            > history, on this date... his birthday!
                            >
                            > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                            > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                            > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                            > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                            > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                            > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                            > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                            > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                            > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                            > of God.
                            >
                            > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                            > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                            > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                            > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                            > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                            > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                            > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                            > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                            > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                            > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                            > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                            > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                            > a past track record of lying has been verified
                            > by Klemp.
                            >
                            > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                            > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                            > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                            > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                            > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                            > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                            > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                            > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                            > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                            >
                            > If one has paid attention they will see that
                            > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                            > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                            > as well. Just look at the differences and
                            > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                            > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                            > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                            > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                            > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                            > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                            > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                            >
                            > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                            > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                            > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                            > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                            > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                            > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                            > etznab wrote:
                            >
                            > hat was interesting what you said about
                            > "Mahanta".
                            >
                            > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                            > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                            > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                            > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                            > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                            >
                            > Was that the date?
                            >
                            > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                            > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                            > for books after that date.
                            >
                            > The Flute of God came out in installments
                            > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                            > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                            > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                            > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                            > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                            > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                            >
                            > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                            > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                            > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                            > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                            > various other forms of "Master".
                            >
                            > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                            > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                            >
                            > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                            > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                            > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                            > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                            > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                            > The Flute of God).
                            >
                            > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                            > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                            > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                            > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                            > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                            >
                            > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                            > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                            >
                            > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                            > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                            > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                            > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                            > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                            >
                            > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                            > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                            > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                            >
                            > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                            > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                            > "Mahanta" topic.
                            >
                            > Etznab
                            >
                            > prometheus wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello All,
                            > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                            > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                            >
                            > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                            >
                            > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                            > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                            > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                            > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                            > true."
                            >
                            > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                            > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                            > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                            > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                            > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                            > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                            > "The Wisdom Notes."
                            >
                            > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                            > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                            > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                            > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                            > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                            > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                            > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                            > believe in some universal force whether called
                            > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                            > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                            > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                            > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                            > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                            > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                            > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                            > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                            > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                            > action" of his followers."
                            >
                            > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                            > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                            > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                            > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                            > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                            > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                            > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                            >
                            > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                            > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                            > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                            > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                            > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                            > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                            > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                            >
                            > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                            > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                            > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                            > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                            > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                            > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                            > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                            > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                            > title and definition.
                            >
                            > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                            > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                            > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                            > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                            > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                            > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                            > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                            > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                            > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                            > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                            > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                            > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                            > straight!
                            >
                            > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                            > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                            > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                            > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                            > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                            > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                            > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                            > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                            > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                            > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                            > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                            > 970th LEM, was from.
                            >
                            > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                            > wanted to present more details than what
                            > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                            > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                            > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                            > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                            > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                            > and distortions.
                            >
                            > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                            > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                            > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                            > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                            > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                            > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                            > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                            >
                            > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                            > will deny this, but they share the same
                            > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                            > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                            > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                            > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                            > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                            > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                            > where ECKists have made fun of the
                            > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                            > would seem that they are laughing
                            > at themselves and don't realize it!
                            > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                            > to do critical thinking and Not being
                            > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                            > still ECKists.
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                          • prometheus_973
                            Twitchell s manuscript was a work in progress with rewrites and tweaking during his time (1955-65) spent with his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh. Klemp even
                            Message 13 of 15 , Mar 7, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Twitchell's manuscript was a work
                              in progress with rewrites and tweaking
                              during his time (1955-65) spent with
                              his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh.

                              Klemp even mentions Kirpal on
                              Eckankar.org and his involvement
                              with The Tiger's Fang manuscript
                              not long before it was published.
                              Read the two sections titled "Struggle
                              for Mastership" and "Beginnings
                              of Eckankar" listed below.

                              http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

                              Interesting too that Klemp mentions
                              Kirpal Singh by name 15 times during
                              this "Behind the Scenes with Paul Twitchell"
                              while only mentioning former 970th LEM
                              Sudar Singh's name 6 times! Count and see!

                              Here, in Chapter 8, Twitchell has Sugmad
                              speaking to him and Kirpal (Rebazar). This
                              is just one of the problems that Kirpal had
                              with this manuscript. Anyway, here are some
                              quotes:

                              Sugmad:

                              "You are also God! You are myself! I!

                              1) "My First Principle is that this true cosmos IS!

                              2) "My Second Principle is that there is no
                              God but me, I; not me as you know, but
                              that which is within you, the Self. Therefore
                              all is God, include the lowest of life.

                              3) "My Third Principle is that to have divinity,
                              you must dwell in the center of my Light
                              and Sound; and since Light is God, and God
                              is Light then IT is everywhere, and has No
                              Focus except in each Soul. Thus I must dwell
                              in the Light within Me!

                              4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth is
                              greater than the Lie, and truth is never greater
                              than No truth, for the latter is the shining ideal
                              which God holds before the Soul in his true kingdom!

                              ***
                              It seems to me that Paul, at first, was wanting
                              to share some of his views and to become a
                              real writer with a book. Gail talked him into
                              making it into a religion when interest picked
                              up at his book promotions and people started
                              to look to Twit as their modern day saviour/prophet!
                              Klemp merely positioned himself at the ESC
                              and inherited the LEM title as Darwin's writer.

                              Prometheus



                              Hello Etznab and All,
                              I started another thread for this discussion.
                              Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                              1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                              until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                              up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                              that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                              Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                              and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                              Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                              one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                              editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                              fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                              delude its followers.

                              Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                              Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                              of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                              all of those secret teachings and when he made
                              PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                              mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                              one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                              Four More Years that this information (if we
                              believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                              Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                              the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                              it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                              the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                              the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                              are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                              some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                              gap, 1965-1969?

                              Prometheus


                              Hello Etznab,
                              It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                              Twitchell claims to have received the
                              Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                              he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                              have trouble remembering the details
                              of their lies. That's why Twit made
                              the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                              his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                              created or started the "outer church"
                              on this date. This way he'd remember
                              it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                              is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                              every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                              history, on this date... his birthday!

                              PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                              (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                              REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                              these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                              The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                              didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                              due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                              and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                              given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                              of God.

                              As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                              This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                              1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                              name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                              Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                              did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                              publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                              to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                              as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                              even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                              in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                              get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                              a past track record of lying has been verified
                              by Klemp.

                              The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                              but let's remember that Klemp states that
                              Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                              Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                              mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                              that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                              there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                              in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                              "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

                              If one has paid attention they will see that
                              Klemp has not only given new covers to
                              Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                              as well. Just look at the differences and
                              changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                              Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                              to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                              current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                              sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                              works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                              the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

                              Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                              ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                              included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                              these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                              How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                              of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

                              Prometheus




                              etznab wrote:

                              hat was interesting what you said about
                              "Mahanta".

                              Just the other day I was trying to remember
                              exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                              experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                              and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                              Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

                              Was that the date?

                              I assumed the writing about it would have to
                              be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                              for books after that date.

                              The Flute of God came out in installments
                              in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                              to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                              have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                              out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                              1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                              to Darwin Gross, I think.

                              1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                              (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                              took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                              mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                              various other forms of "Master".

                              All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                              In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

                              It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                              "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                              By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                              The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                              I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                              The Flute of God).

                              The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                              from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                              he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                              one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                              "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

                              The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                              "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

                              OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                              does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                              of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                              anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                              it at a seminar and it's on tape?

                              I'd like to find out when that experience was
                              mentioned and what was said about it to get
                              an idea about what "history" might exist.

                              Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                              I thought this query could be relevant to the
                              "Mahanta" topic.

                              Etznab

                              prometheus wrote:

                              Hello All,
                              I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                              Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

                              Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

                              In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                              condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                              delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                              1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                              true."

                              ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                              Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                              In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                              January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                              see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                              the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                              "The Wisdom Notes."

                              Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                              Twitchell stole even the name from another
                              spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                              in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                              was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                              of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                              form This was easy to accept, for most people
                              believe in some universal force whether called
                              "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                              associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                              and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                              of two words, he was able to transform himself
                              into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                              meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                              "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                              and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                              by making it part of "every word, thought and
                              action" of his followers."

                              ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                              be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                              in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                              Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                              Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                              in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                              create this term/position for himself until 1969.

                              BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                              by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                              Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                              used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                              (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                              that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                              was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

                              The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                              on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                              Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                              This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                              to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                              up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                              reproach and regain control as the highest of
                              all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                              title and definition.

                              Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                              for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                              on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                              12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                              states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                              Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                              need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                              on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                              for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                              of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                              is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                              Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                              straight!

                              Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                              Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                              by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                              Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                              page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                              was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                              interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                              had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                              talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                              Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                              that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                              970th LEM, was from.

                              I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                              wanted to present more details than what
                              were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                              for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                              Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                              up for him, as well as, creating his own
                              newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                              and distortions.

                              There's one more thing that I wanted to
                              mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                              Christians believe that Jesus will come
                              again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                              believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                              Freedom via God-Realization in this
                              lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

                              Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                              will deny this, but they share the same
                              Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                              Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                              switch and made Adam into Adom and
                              Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                              for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                              Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                              where ECKists have made fun of the
                              Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                              would seem that they are laughing
                              at themselves and don't realize it!
                              How clueless! Then again, an inability
                              to do critical thinking and Not being
                              able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                              still ECKists.

                              Prometheus
                            • prometheus_973
                              Let s take another look at The Tiger s Fang which Eckankar continues to sell. In Chapter 8 the Four Principles of Sugmad were given to Paul and Rebazar
                              Message 14 of 15 , Mar 9, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Let's take another look at "The
                                Tiger's Fang" which Eckankar
                                continues to sell.

                                In Chapter 8 the Four Principles
                                of Sugmad were given to Paul
                                and Rebazar (Kirpal Singh) by
                                Sugmad himself. Here's number Four:

                                4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth
                                is greater than the Lie,

                                and truth is Never Greater than No truth,

                                for the latter [no truth, the lie] is the
                                shining ideal which God holds before
                                the Soul in his true kingdom!"

                                ME: So, Twit/Suggie is saying that
                                "the Lie" (his no truth) is greater than
                                the truth.

                                And, "the Lie" (no truth) is greater than truth!

                                However, he's saying that the latter (no truth)
                                is the "shining ideal" - the Perfect Lie!

                                Maybe the perfect lie is the shining ideal
                                for a conman! Is this a Freudian slip by
                                Twitchell? After all, Twitchell lied about
                                everything in order to create Eckankar.

                                When one looks at Twit's track record
                                you can see that he's been lying, plagiarizing,
                                and distorting the truth by "exaggerating,"
                                and "twisting facts" for most of his life.
                                At age 27 (1935) he was lying on a grand
                                scale to get into Who's Who in Kentucky,
                                and Klemp points that out! Paul lied about
                                his age in order to attract Gail who was
                                33 years younger, thus, everything PT wrote
                                about age not mattering, Soul is ageless,
                                or about one's right to privacy and that the
                                government didn't need to know this info
                                (birth records) were used to cover-up and
                                distract people.

                                I wonder what Gail and Patti thought
                                about Paul's "Virgin Birth" and "Mahanta"
                                story? They both went along with it didn't
                                they! As I pointed out, just look in the
                                index of the Shariyat One for, "Mahanta,
                                birth of."

                                Plus, let's not forget that trip to "Paris"
                                where Paul (at age 15) stayed with his
                                "step-sister" Kay-Dee and then met
                                Sudar Singh and traveled to India with
                                him where they, supposedly, stayed for
                                one year! Paul claimed to have gotten
                                the Second Initiation from Sudar while
                                there.

                                Marman has pointed out that this was
                                Paris, Kentucky and Not Paris, France.
                                Therefore, Paul and Kay-Dee could not
                                have met Sudar Singh while there nor
                                traveled to India. Thus, Paul never got
                                the Second Initiation from Sudar as
                                he claimed!

                                Therefore, later, Sudar couldn't have
                                handed Paul off to Rebazar where PT,
                                supposedly, received his 3rd-7th
                                initiations! Then, on his "second trip,"
                                Paul claims to have received the 8th-
                                12th from Rebazar. None of it happened
                                since Sudar and Rebazar were fictitious
                                characters... like in a novel! This is
                                just one more reason why the "Difficulties
                                of Becoming the LEM" (1971 tape
                                transcriptions) was bought up and
                                destroyed.

                                So, I wonder why Marman hasn't
                                pieced the puzzel together by now,
                                or has he? Is Marman covering-up
                                for Klemp? After all, if Twitchell never
                                met Sudar in "Paris, France" then he
                                didn't travel with him to India and
                                didn't get the 2nd Initiation. Thus,
                                PT didn't get handed over to Rebazar
                                and never received the 12th Initiation
                                and never became the 971st LEM/Mahanta!

                                Therefore, Darwin's Initiations came
                                from a poser, an impostor, with No
                                Initiations coming from a "lineage
                                of ECK Masters!" Thus, Klemp is a
                                poser too! Those initiations Darwin
                                gave Klemp are invalid. Rebazar does
                                Not exist except in people's imaginations.
                                It's all fabricated, it's a lie and Klemp,
                                with Marman's help, is covering it up
                                too!

                                However, most religions are built
                                upon lies and myth (distortions of
                                fact and unscientific explanations
                                of nature). Religions rely upon giving
                                "spiritual answers" to questions about
                                creation and life and death and the
                                beyond. They give hope of another
                                life after death, but there's a catch!

                                One has to believe in their stories
                                and follow their rules, laws, and
                                guidelines and one has to bow down
                                to the (RESA) Hierarchy. One has to
                                hang onto and worship every word
                                spoken by their God's representative
                                on earth... the Godman (Klemp).

                                I guess that HK rationalizes his
                                lies by thinking that he's providing
                                a service to lost Souls. If it wasn't
                                for Eckankar these New Agers wouldn't
                                have anything to believe in to give
                                them hope.

                                On the other hand, if it wasn't
                                for Twitchell's Eckankar scam
                                Klemp wouldn't have had
                                such a good paying job with all
                                of those perks. It's hard to say
                                what he would be doing or where
                                he'd be living if it wasn't for being
                                promoted to LEM by Darwin. Chances
                                are he'd still be a 7th, or maybe an
                                8th initiate, and working at the ESC.
                                He'd be writing EK brochures or books
                                like Phil Morimitsu once wrote.

                                BTW-What ever happened to those
                                books? Klemp doesn't like the competition
                                does he!

                                prometheus



                                ***********************************
                                Twitchell's manuscript was a work
                                in progress with rewrites and tweaking
                                during his time (1955-65) spent with
                                his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh.

                                Klemp even mentions Kirpal on
                                Eckankar.org and his involvement
                                with The Tiger's Fang manuscript
                                not long before it was published.
                                Read the two sections titled "Struggle
                                for Mastership" and "Beginnings
                                of Eckankar" listed below.

                                http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

                                Interesting too that Klemp mentions
                                Kirpal Singh by name 15 times during
                                this "Behind the Scenes with Paul Twitchell"
                                while only mentioning former 970th LEM
                                Sudar Singh's name 6 times! Count and see!

                                Here, in Chapter 8, Twitchell has Sugmad
                                speaking to him and Kirpal (Rebazar). This
                                is just one of the problems that Kirpal had
                                with this manuscript. Anyway, here are some
                                quotes:

                                Sugmad:

                                "You are also God! You are myself! I!

                                1) "My First Principle is that this true cosmos IS!

                                2) "My Second Principle is that there is no
                                God but me, I; not me as you know, but
                                that which is within you, the Self. Therefore
                                all is God, include the lowest of life.

                                3) "My Third Principle is that to have divinity,
                                you must dwell in the center of my Light
                                and Sound; and since Light is God, and God
                                is Light then IT is everywhere, and has No
                                Focus except in each Soul. Thus I must dwell
                                in the Light within Me!

                                4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth is
                                greater than the Lie, and truth is never greater
                                than No truth, for the latter is the shining ideal
                                which God holds before the Soul in his true kingdom!

                                ***
                                It seems to me that Paul, at first, was wanting
                                to share some of his views and to become a
                                real writer with a book. Gail talked him into
                                making it into a religion when interest picked
                                up at his book promotions and people started
                                to look to Twit as their modern day saviour/prophet!
                                Klemp merely positioned himself at the ESC
                                and inherited the LEM title as Darwin's writer.

                                Prometheus



                                Hello Etznab and All,
                                I started another thread for this discussion.
                                Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                                1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                                until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                                up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                                that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                                Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                                and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                                Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                                one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                                editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                                fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                                delude its followers.

                                Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                                Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                                of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                                all of those secret teachings and when he made
                                PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                                mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                                one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                                Four More Years that this information (if we
                                believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                                Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                                the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                                it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                                the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                                the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                                are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                                some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                                gap, 1965-1969?

                                Prometheus


                                Hello Etznab,
                                It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                                Twitchell claims to have received the
                                Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                                he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                                have trouble remembering the details
                                of their lies. That's why Twit made
                                the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                                his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                                created or started the "outer church"
                                on this date. This way he'd remember
                                it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                                is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                                every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                                history, on this date... his birthday!

                                PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                                (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                                REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                                these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                                The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                                didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                                due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                                and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                                given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                                of God.

                                As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                                This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                                1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                                name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                                Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                                did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                                publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                                to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                                as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                                even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                                in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                                get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                                a past track record of lying has been verified
                                by Klemp.

                                The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                                but let's remember that Klemp states that
                                Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                                Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                                mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                                that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                                there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                                in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                                "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

                                If one has paid attention they will see that
                                Klemp has not only given new covers to
                                Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                                as well. Just look at the differences and
                                changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                                Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                                to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                                current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                                sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                                works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                                the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

                                Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                                ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                                included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                                these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                                How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                                of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

                                Prometheus




                                etznab wrote:

                                hat was interesting what you said about
                                "Mahanta".

                                Just the other day I was trying to remember
                                exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                                experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                                and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                                Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

                                Was that the date?

                                I assumed the writing about it would have to
                                be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                                for books after that date.

                                The Flute of God came out in installments
                                in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                                to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                                have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                                out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                                1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                                to Darwin Gross, I think.

                                1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                                (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                                took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                                mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                                various other forms of "Master".

                                All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                                In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

                                It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                                "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                                By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                                The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                                I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                                The Flute of God).

                                The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                                from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                                he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                                one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                                "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

                                The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                                "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

                                OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                                does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                                of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                                anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                                it at a seminar and it's on tape?

                                I'd like to find out when that experience was
                                mentioned and what was said about it to get
                                an idea about what "history" might exist.

                                Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                                I thought this query could be relevant to the
                                "Mahanta" topic.

                                Etznab

                                prometheus wrote:

                                Hello All,
                                I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                                Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

                                Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

                                In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                                condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                                delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                                1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                                true."

                                ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                                Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                                In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                                January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                                see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                                the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                                "The Wisdom Notes."

                                Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                                Twitchell stole even the name from another
                                spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                                in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                                was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                                of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                                form This was easy to accept, for most people
                                believe in some universal force whether called
                                "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                                associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                                and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                                of two words, he was able to transform himself
                                into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                                meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                                "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                                and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                                by making it part of "every word, thought and
                                action" of his followers."

                                ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                                be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                                in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                                Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                                Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                                in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                                create this term/position for himself until 1969.

                                BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                                by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                                Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                                used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                                (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                                that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                                was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

                                The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                                on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                                Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                                This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                                to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                                up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                                reproach and regain control as the highest of
                                all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                                title and definition.

                                Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                                for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                                on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                                12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                                states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                                Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                                need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                                on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                                for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                                of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                                is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                                Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                                straight!

                                Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                                Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                                by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                                Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                                page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                                was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                                interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                                had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                                talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                                Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                                that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                                970th LEM, was from.

                                I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                                wanted to present more details than what
                                were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                                for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                                Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                                up for him, as well as, creating his own
                                newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                                and distortions.

                                There's one more thing that I wanted to
                                mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                                Christians believe that Jesus will come
                                again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                                believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                                Freedom via God-Realization in this
                                lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!


                                Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                                will deny this, but they share the same
                                Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                                Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                                switch and made Adam into Adom and
                                Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                                for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                                Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                                where ECKists have made fun of the
                                Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                                would seem that they are laughing
                                at themselves and don't realize it!
                                How clueless! Then again, an inability
                                to do critical thinking and Not being
                                able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                                still ECKists.

                                Prometheus
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.