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Rebazar Was NOT a Mahanta in The Tiger's Fang

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab and All, I started another thread for this discussion. Paul never mentions the Mahanta in the 1967 Copyright of The Tiger s Fang. It wasn t
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 1, 2010
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      Hello Etznab and All,
      I started another thread for this discussion.
      Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
      1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
      until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
      up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
      that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
      Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
      and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
      Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
      one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
      editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
      fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
      delude its followers.

      Really, one would think that when the fictitious
      Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
      of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
      all of those secret teachings and when he made
      PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
      mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
      one time or another! However, it wasn't for
      Four More Years that this information (if we
      believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
      Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
      the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
      it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
      the right circumstances, for him to figure out
      the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
      are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
      some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
      gap, 1965-1969?

      Prometheus


      Hello Etznab,
      It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
      Twitchell claims to have received the
      Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
      he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
      have trouble remembering the details
      of their lies. That's why Twit made
      the date of the LEM lie correspond to
      his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
      created or started the "outer church"
      on this date. This way he'd remember
      it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
      is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
      every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
      history, on this date... his birthday!

      PT did promote "Flute" via installments
      (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
      REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
      these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
      The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
      didn't get into print until 1970 probably
      due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
      and the First Printing date of 1970 are
      given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
      of God.

      As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
      This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
      1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
      name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
      Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
      did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
      publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
      to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
      as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
      even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
      in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
      get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
      a past track record of lying has been verified
      by Klemp.

      The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
      but let's remember that Klemp states that
      Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
      Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
      mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
      that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
      there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
      in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
      "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

      If one has paid attention they will see that
      Klemp has not only given new covers to
      Paul's older works, but has done reediting
      as well. Just look at the differences and
      changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
      Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
      to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
      current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
      sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
      works, but he can do this because Gail sold
      the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

      Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
      ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
      included, that are still her friend. Then again,
      these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
      How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
      of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

      Prometheus




      etznab wrote:

      hat was interesting what you said about
      "Mahanta".

      Just the other day I was trying to remember
      exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
      experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
      and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
      Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

      Was that the date?

      I assumed the writing about it would have to
      be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
      for books after that date.

      The Flute of God came out in installments
      in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
      to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
      have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
      out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
      1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
      to Darwin Gross, I think.

      1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
      (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
      took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
      mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
      various other forms of "Master".

      All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
      In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

      It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
      "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
      By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
      The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
      I believe. (That would be the edited version of
      The Flute of God).

      The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
      from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
      he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
      one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
      "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

      The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
      "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

      OK. So where in all these books since 1965
      does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
      of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
      anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
      it at a seminar and it's on tape?

      I'd like to find out when that experience was
      mentioned and what was said about it to get
      an idea about what "history" might exist.

      Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
      I thought this query could be relevant to the
      "Mahanta" topic.

      Etznab

      prometheus wrote:

      Hello All,
      I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
      Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

      Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

      In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
      condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
      delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
      1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
      true."

      ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
      Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
      In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
      January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
      see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
      the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
      "The Wisdom Notes."

      Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
      Twitchell stole even the name from another
      spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
      in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
      was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
      of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
      form This was easy to accept, for most people
      believe in some universal force whether called
      "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
      associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
      and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
      of two words, he was able to transform himself
      into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
      meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
      "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
      and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
      by making it part of "every word, thought and
      action" of his followers."

      ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
      be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
      in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
      Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
      Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
      in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
      create this term/position for himself until 1969.

      BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
      by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
      Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
      used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
      (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
      that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
      was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

      The second thing was that Paul began to renege
      on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
      Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
      This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
      to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
      up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
      reproach and regain control as the highest of
      all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
      title and definition.

      Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
      for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
      on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
      12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
      states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
      Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
      need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
      on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
      for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
      of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
      is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
      Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
      straight!

      Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
      Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
      by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
      Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
      page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
      was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
      interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
      had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
      talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
      Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
      that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
      970th LEM, was from.

      I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
      wanted to present more details than what
      were first gathered. It's a big job digging
      for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
      Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
      up for him, as well as, creating his own
      newer version of Eckankar with more lies
      and distortions.

      There's one more thing that I wanted to
      mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
      Christians believe that Jesus will come
      again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
      believe that they will achieve Spiritual
      Freedom via God-Realization in this
      lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

      Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
      will deny this, but they share the same
      Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
      Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
      switch and made Adam into Adom and
      Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
      for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
      Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
      where ECKists have made fun of the
      Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
      would seem that they are laughing
      at themselves and don't realize it!
      How clueless! Then again, an inability
      to do critical thinking and Not being
      able to connect-the-dots is why they're
      still ECKists.

      Prometheus
    • etznab@aol.com
      I agree it is most peculiar that Mahanta didn t appear in The Tiger s Fang published 1967. There were other early books that didn t mention it either, if I
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 2, 2010
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        I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
        appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.

        There were other early books that didn't mention
        it either, if I remember correctly.

        Etznab

        -----Original Message-----
        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Mon, Mar 1, 2010 7:15 pm
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Rebazar Was NOT a Mahanta in The
        Tiger's Fang

         
        Hello Etznab and All,
        I started another thread for this discussion.
        Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
        1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
        until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
        up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
        that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
        Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
        and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
        Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
        one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
        editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
        fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
        delude its followers.

        Really, one would think that when the fictitious
        Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
        of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
        all of those secret teachings and when he made
        PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
        mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
        one time or another! However, it wasn't for
        Four More Years that this information (if we
        believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
        Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
        the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
        it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
        the right circumstances, for him to figure out
        the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
        are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
        some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
        gap, 1965-1969?

        Prometheus

        Hello Etznab,
        It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
        Twitchell claims to have received the
        Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
        he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
        have trouble remembering the details
        of their lies. That's why Twit made
        the date of the LEM lie correspond to
        his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
        created or started the "outer church"
        on this date. This way he'd remember
        it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
        is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
        every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
        history, on this date... his birthday!

        PT did promote "Flute" via installments
        (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
        REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
        these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
        The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
        didn't get into print until 1970 probably
        due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
        and the First Printing date of 1970 are
        given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
        of God.

        As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
        This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
        1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
        name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
        Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
        did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
        publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
        to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
        as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
        even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
        in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
        get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
        a past track record of lying has been verified
        by Klemp.

        The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
        but let's remember that Klemp states that
        Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
        Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
        mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
        that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
        there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
        in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
        "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

        If one has paid attention they will see that
        Klemp has not only given new covers to
        Paul's older works, but has done reediting
        as well. Just look at the differences and
        changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
        Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
        to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
        current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
        sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
        works, but he can do this because Gail sold
        the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

        Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
        ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
        included, that are still her friend. Then again,
        these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
        How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
        of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

        Prometheus

        etznab wrote:

        hat was interesting what you said about
        "Mahanta".

        Just the other day I was trying to remember
        exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
        experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
        and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
        Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

        Was that the date?

        I assumed the writing about it would have to
        be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
        for books after that date.

        The Flute of God came out in installments
        in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
        to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
        have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
        out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
        1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
        to Darwin Gross, I think.

        1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
        (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
        took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
        mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
        various other forms of "Master".

        All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
        In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

        It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
        "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
        By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
        The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
        I believe. (That would be the edited version of
        The Flute of God).

        The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
        from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
        he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
        one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
        "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

        The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
        "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

        OK. So where in all these books since 1965
        does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
        of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
        anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
        it at a seminar and it's on tape?

        I'd like to find out when that experience was
        mentioned and what was said about it to get
        an idea about what "history" might exist.

        Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
        I thought this query could be relevant to the
        "Mahanta" topic.

        Etznab

        prometheus wrote:

        Hello All,
        I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
        Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

        Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

        In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
        condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
        delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
        1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
        true."

        ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
        Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
        In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
        January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
        see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
        the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
        "The Wisdom Notes."

        Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
        Twitchell stole even the name from another
        spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
        in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
        was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
        of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
        form This was easy to accept, for most people
        believe in some universal force whether called
        "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
        associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
        and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
        of two words, he was able to transform himself
        into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
        meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
        "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
        and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
        by making it part of "every word, thought and
        action" of his followers."

        ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
        be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
        in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
        Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
        Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
        in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
        create this term/position for himself until 1969.

        BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
        by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
        Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
        used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
        (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
        that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
        was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

        The second thing was that Paul began to renege
        on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
        Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
        This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
        to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
        up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
        reproach and regain control as the highest of
        all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
        title and definition.

        Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
        for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
        on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
        12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
        states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
        Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
        need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
        on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
        for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
        of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
        is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
        Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
        straight!

        Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
        Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
        by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
        Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
        page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
        was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
        interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
        had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
        talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
        Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
        that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
        970th LEM, was from.

        I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
        wanted to present more details than what
        were first gathered. It's a big job digging
        for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
        Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
        up for him, as well as, creating his own
        newer version of Eckankar with more lies
        and distortions.

        There's one more thing that I wanted to
        mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
        Christians believe that Jesus will come
        again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
        believe that they will achieve Spiritual
        Freedom via God-Realization in this
        lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

        Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
        will deny this, but they share the same
        Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
        Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
        switch and made Adam into Adom and
        Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
        for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
        Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
        where ECKists have made fun of the
        Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
        would seem that they are laughing
        at themselves and don't realize it!
        How clueless! Then again, an inability
        to do critical thinking and Not being
        able to connect-the-dots is why they're
        still ECKists.

        Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Etznab and All, Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master are historical transcriptions from private tapings by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 3, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Etznab and All,
          "Difficulties Of Becoming The
          Living ECK Master" are historical
          transcriptions from private tapings
          by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:

          "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
          made private tapings of his struggles
          before and after his acceptance
          of the Rod of ECK Power on October
          22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
          who presented these tapes to Sri
          Darwin.)"

          On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
          Twitchell tells his story of being
          initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
          in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
          trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
          at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
          after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
          lie! Marman states that this was
          Paris, Kentucky and Not France
          as Paul would have us to believe.

          Let's also recall that Klemp states,
          on eckankar.org, that at age 27
          (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
          and "twisting facts" (lying) about
          his "grand achievements" to get
          into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
          Thus, there was no trip to Paris
          (France) nor to India at age 15
          in 1923!

          http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html



          Twit states:
          "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
          quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
          six to seven months being taught
          and learning the works of ECK...
          Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]

          ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
          the "Mahanta" once during these
          months!

          PT: "I had already been initiated
          (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
          the same as everybody else, the
          second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]

          ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
          (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
          there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
          Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
          Singh was Twitchell's Master from
          1955-65. They even have the same
          last name! What's this mean? Well,
          it means that Eckankar was/is based
          upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
          is Klemp! There's no such thing as
          a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
          as believable as the Wizard of Oz!

          ***
          BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
          gives Twitchell's birth year as
          1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
          Books One and Two" on the Copyright
          Page.

          The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
          the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
          "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
          how PT's birthday corresponds
          to the Spiritual New Year and the
          Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
          ***

          PT: "And then I got the Third and
          Fourth, I went up through About
          the Seventh at this particular time
          (pg. 71)."

          ME: How does one go up to
          "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
          Wouldn't a person remember
          what initiation it was if it were
          true? This is just more proof
          that Twit was lying once again!

          PT: "... later [1951], but not
          on this trip, I followed him up
          there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
          and I got the finish (12th) of
          my initiations (pg. 71)."

          Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
          the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
          Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
          Master! I know this because Twitchell
          never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
          1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
          closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
          never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
          Jan. 1, 1969.

          Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
          year gap of knowledge (not knowing
          about the Mahanta) is quite simple
          right? I just can't figure out what it
          would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?

          Prometheus


          etznab wrote:

          I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
          appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.

          There were other early books that didn't mention
          it either, if I remember correctly.


          prometheus wrote:

          Hello Etznab and All,
          I started another thread for this discussion.
          Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
          1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
          until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
          up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
          that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
          Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
          and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
          Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
          one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
          editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
          fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
          delude its followers.

          Really, one would think that when the fictitious
          Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
          of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
          all of those secret teachings and when he made
          PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
          mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
          one time or another! However, it wasn't for
          Four More Years that this information (if we
          believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
          Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
          the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
          it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
          the right circumstances, for him to figure out
          the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
          are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
          some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
          gap, 1965-1969?

          Prometheus

          Hello Etznab,
          It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
          Twitchell claims to have received the
          Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
          he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
          have trouble remembering the details
          of their lies. That's why Twit made
          the date of the LEM lie correspond to
          his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
          created or started the "outer church"
          on this date. This way he'd remember
          it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
          is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
          every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
          history, on this date... his birthday!

          PT did promote "Flute" via installments
          (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
          REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
          these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
          The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
          didn't get into print until 1970 probably
          due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
          and the First Printing date of 1970 are
          given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
          of God.

          As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
          This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
          1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
          name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
          Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
          did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
          publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
          to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
          as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
          even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
          in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
          get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
          a past track record of lying has been verified
          by Klemp.

          The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
          but let's remember that Klemp states that
          Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
          Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
          mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
          that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
          there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
          in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
          "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

          If one has paid attention they will see that
          Klemp has not only given new covers to
          Paul's older works, but has done reediting
          as well. Just look at the differences and
          changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
          Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
          to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
          current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
          sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
          works, but he can do this because Gail sold
          the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

          Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
          ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
          included, that are still her friend. Then again,
          these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
          How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
          of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

          Prometheus

          etznab wrote:

          hat was interesting what you said about
          "Mahanta".

          Just the other day I was trying to remember
          exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
          experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
          and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
          Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

          Was that the date?

          I assumed the writing about it would have to
          be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
          for books after that date.

          The Flute of God came out in installments
          in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
          to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
          have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
          out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
          1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
          to Darwin Gross, I think.

          1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
          (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
          took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
          mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
          various other forms of "Master".

          All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
          In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

          It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
          "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
          By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
          The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
          I believe. (That would be the edited version of
          The Flute of God).

          The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
          from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
          he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
          one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
          "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

          The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
          "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

          OK. So where in all these books since 1965
          does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
          of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
          anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
          it at a seminar and it's on tape?

          I'd like to find out when that experience was
          mentioned and what was said about it to get
          an idea about what "history" might exist.

          Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
          I thought this query could be relevant to the
          "Mahanta" topic.

          Etznab

          prometheus wrote:

          Hello All,
          I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
          Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

          Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

          In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
          condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
          delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
          1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
          true."

          ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
          Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
          In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
          January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
          see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
          the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
          "The Wisdom Notes."

          Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
          Twitchell stole even the name from another
          spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
          in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
          was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
          of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
          form This was easy to accept, for most people
          believe in some universal force whether called
          "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
          associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
          and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
          of two words, he was able to transform himself
          into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
          meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
          "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
          and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
          by making it part of "every word, thought and
          action" of his followers."

          ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
          be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
          in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
          Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
          Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
          in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
          create this term/position for himself until 1969.

          BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
          by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
          Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
          used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
          (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
          that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
          was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

          The second thing was that Paul began to renege
          on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
          Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
          This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
          to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
          up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
          reproach and regain control as the highest of
          all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
          title and definition.

          Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
          for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
          on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
          12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
          states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
          Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
          need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
          on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
          for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
          of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
          is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
          Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
          straight!

          Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
          Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
          by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
          Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
          page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
          was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
          interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
          had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
          talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
          Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
          that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
          970th LEM, was from.

          I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
          wanted to present more details than what
          were first gathered. It's a big job digging
          for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
          Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
          up for him, as well as, creating his own
          newer version of Eckankar with more lies
          and distortions.

          There's one more thing that I wanted to
          mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
          Christians believe that Jesus will come
          again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
          believe that they will achieve Spiritual
          Freedom via God-Realization in this
          lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

          Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
          will deny this, but they share the same
          Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
          Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
          switch and made Adam into Adom and
          Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
          for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
          Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
          where ECKists have made fun of the
          Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
          would seem that they are laughing
          at themselves and don't realize it!
          How clueless! Then again, an inability
          to do critical thinking and Not being
          able to connect-the-dots is why they're
          still ECKists.

          Prometheus
        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, Let s summarize Paul s Initiation lies: 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh at about age 16 (1923-24). Paul states that he and Kay-Dee traveled
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 3, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello All,
            Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:

            1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
            at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
            Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
            traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
            and stayed in Allahabad, India
            for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]

            2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
            to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
            Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
            Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]

            3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
            to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
            into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
            [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
            Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
            eckankar.org

            Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
            Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
            in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
            lied as to how many times he traveled
            to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
            Twit ever travelled to India!

            Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
            we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
            lying! And, this is just a couple of months
            before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!

            What's it all mean? It means that Twit
            conned people and that Klemp is still
            conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
            But, should anyone be surprised when
            religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
            gullible and loving people? Most people
            want to believe and they want to believe
            the best in whatever or whomever.
            Everyone has to figure out what category
            of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
            are manmade just as religions are.

            Prometheus


            prometheus wrote:
            Hello Etznab and All,
            "Difficulties Of Becoming The
            Living ECK Master" are historical
            transcriptions from private tapings
            by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:

            "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
            made private tapings of his struggles
            before and after his acceptance
            of the Rod of ECK Power on October
            22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
            who presented these tapes to Sri
            Darwin.)"

            On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
            Twitchell tells his story of being
            initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
            in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
            trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
            at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
            after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
            lie! Marman states that this was
            Paris, Kentucky and Not France
            as Paul would have us to believe.

            Let's also recall that Klemp states,
            on eckankar.org, that at age 27
            (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
            and "twisting facts" (lying) about
            his "grand achievements" to get
            into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
            Thus, there was no trip to Paris
            (France) nor to India at age 15
            in 1923!

            http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html



            Twit states:
            "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
            quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
            six to seven months being taught
            and learning the works of ECK...
            Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]

            ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
            the "Mahanta" once during these
            months!

            PT: "I had already been initiated
            (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
            the same as everybody else, the
            second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]

            ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
            (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
            there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
            Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
            Singh was Twitchell's Master from
            1955-65. They even have the same
            last name! What's this mean? Well,
            it means that Eckankar was/is based
            upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
            is Klemp! There's no such thing as
            a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
            as believable as the Wizard of Oz!

            ***
            BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
            gives Twitchell's birth year as
            1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
            Books One and Two" on the Copyright
            Page.

            The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
            the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
            "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
            how PT's birthday corresponds
            to the Spiritual New Year and the
            Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
            ***

            PT: "And then I got the Third and
            Fourth, I went up through About
            the Seventh at this particular time
            (pg. 71)."

            ME: How does one go up to
            "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
            Wouldn't a person remember
            what initiation it was if it were
            true? This is just more proof
            that Twit was lying once again!

            PT: "... later [1951], but not
            on this trip, I followed him up
            there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
            and I got the finish (12th) of
            my initiations (pg. 71)."

            Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
            the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
            Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
            Master! I know this because Twitchell
            never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
            1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
            closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
            never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
            Jan. 1, 1969.

            Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
            year gap of knowledge (not knowing
            about the Mahanta) is quite simple
            right? I just can't figure out what it
            would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?

            Prometheus


            etznab wrote:

            I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
            appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.

            There were other early books that didn't mention
            it either, if I remember correctly.


            prometheus wrote:

            Hello Etznab and All,
            I started another thread for this discussion.
            Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
            1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
            until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
            up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
            that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
            Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
            and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
            Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
            one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
            editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
            fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
            delude its followers.

            Really, one would think that when the fictitious
            Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
            of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
            all of those secret teachings and when he made
            PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
            mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
            one time or another! However, it wasn't for
            Four More Years that this information (if we
            believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
            Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
            the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
            it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
            the right circumstances, for him to figure out
            the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
            are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
            some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
            gap, 1965-1969?

            Prometheus

            Hello Etznab,
            It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
            Twitchell claims to have received the
            Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
            he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
            have trouble remembering the details
            of their lies. That's why Twit made
            the date of the LEM lie correspond to
            his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
            created or started the "outer church"
            on this date. This way he'd remember
            it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
            is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
            every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
            history, on this date... his birthday!

            PT did promote "Flute" via installments
            (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
            REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
            these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
            The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
            didn't get into print until 1970 probably
            due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
            and the First Printing date of 1970 are
            given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
            of God.

            As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
            This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
            1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
            name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
            Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
            did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
            publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
            to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
            as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
            even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
            in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
            get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
            a past track record of lying has been verified
            by Klemp.

            The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
            but let's remember that Klemp states that
            Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
            Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
            mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
            that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
            there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
            in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
            "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

            If one has paid attention they will see that
            Klemp has not only given new covers to
            Paul's older works, but has done reediting
            as well. Just look at the differences and
            changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
            Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
            to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
            current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
            sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
            works, but he can do this because Gail sold
            the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

            Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
            ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
            included, that are still her friend. Then again,
            these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
            How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
            of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

            Prometheus

            etznab wrote:

            hat was interesting what you said about
            "Mahanta".

            Just the other day I was trying to remember
            exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
            experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
            and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
            Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

            Was that the date?

            I assumed the writing about it would have to
            be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
            for books after that date.

            The Flute of God came out in installments
            in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
            to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
            have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
            out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
            1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
            to Darwin Gross, I think.

            1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
            (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
            took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
            mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
            various other forms of "Master".

            All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
            In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

            It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
            "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
            By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
            The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
            I believe. (That would be the edited version of
            The Flute of God).

            The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
            from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
            he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
            one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
            "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

            The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
            "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

            OK. So where in all these books since 1965
            does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
            of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
            anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
            it at a seminar and it's on tape?

            I'd like to find out when that experience was
            mentioned and what was said about it to get
            an idea about what "history" might exist.

            Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
            I thought this query could be relevant to the
            "Mahanta" topic.

            Etznab

            prometheus wrote:

            Hello All,
            I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
            Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

            Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

            In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
            condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
            delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
            1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
            true."

            ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
            Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
            In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
            January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
            see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
            the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
            "The Wisdom Notes."

            Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
            Twitchell stole even the name from another
            spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
            in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
            was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
            of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
            form This was easy to accept, for most people
            believe in some universal force whether called
            "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
            associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
            and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
            of two words, he was able to transform himself
            into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
            meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
            "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
            and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
            by making it part of "every word, thought and
            action" of his followers."

            ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
            be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
            in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
            Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
            Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
            in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
            create this term/position for himself until 1969.

            BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
            by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
            Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
            used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
            (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
            that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
            was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

            The second thing was that Paul began to renege
            on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
            Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
            This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
            to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
            up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
            reproach and regain control as the highest of
            all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
            title and definition.

            Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
            for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
            on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
            12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
            states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
            Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
            need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
            on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
            for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
            of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
            is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
            Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
            straight!

            Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
            Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
            by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
            Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
            page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
            was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
            interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
            had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
            talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
            Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
            that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
            970th LEM, was from.

            I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
            wanted to present more details than what
            were first gathered. It's a big job digging
            for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
            Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
            up for him, as well as, creating his own
            newer version of Eckankar with more lies
            and distortions.

            There's one more thing that I wanted to
            mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
            Christians believe that Jesus will come
            again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
            believe that they will achieve Spiritual
            Freedom via God-Realization in this
            lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

            Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
            will deny this, but they share the same
            Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
            Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
            switch and made Adam into Adom and
            Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
            for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
            Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
            where ECKists have made fun of the
            Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
            would seem that they are laughing
            at themselves and don't realize it!
            How clueless! Then again, an inability
            to do critical thinking and Not being
            able to connect-the-dots is why they're
            still ECKists.

            Prometheus
          • etznab@aol.com
            And then there is this: Hmm, his first wife, Camille Ballowe Taylor, states univocally that they never traveled together (or apart) from 1946 to 1955 anywhere
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 3, 2010
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              And then there is this:

              "Hmm, his first wife, Camille Ballowe Taylor,
              states univocally that they never traveled
              together (or apart) from 1946 to 1955 anywhere
              outside of the United States. Indeed, she says
              Paul and her were doing the "Self-Revelation
              Church of Absolute Monism" at the time and
              helping to edit their publications."

              http://dlane5.tripod.com/reba1.html

              I didn't learn this until rather recently. If this is
              true then I don't know how a 1947 or 1951 trip
              to India physically happened unless Paul made
              a double of himself for the occasion.

              Etznab


              -----Original Message-----
              From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, Mar 3, 2010 5:44 pm
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Rebazar Was NOT a Mahanta in
              The Tiger's Fang

               
              Hello All,
              Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:

              1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
              at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
              Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
              traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
              and stayed in Allahabad, India
              for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]

              2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
              to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
              Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
              Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]

              3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
              to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
              into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
              [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
              Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
              eckankar.org

              Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
              Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
              in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
              lied as to how many times he traveled
              to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
              Twit ever travelled to India!

              Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
              we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
              lying! And, this is just a couple of months
              before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!

              What's it all mean? It means that Twit
              conned people and that Klemp is still
              conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
              But, should anyone be surprised when
              religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
              gullible and loving people? Most people
              want to believe and they want to believe
              the best in whatever or whomever.
              Everyone has to figure out what category
              of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
              are manmade just as religions are.

              Prometheus

              prometheus wrote:
              Hello Etznab and All,
              "Difficulties Of Becoming The
              Living ECK Master" are historical
              transcriptions from private tapings
              by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:

              "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
              made private tapings of his struggles
              before and after his acceptance
              of the Rod of ECK Power on October
              22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
              who presented these tapes to Sri
              Darwin.)"

              On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
              Twitchell tells his story of being
              initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
              in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
              trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
              at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
              after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
              lie! Marman states that this was
              Paris, Kentucky and Not France
              as Paul would have us to believe.

              Let's also recall that Klemp states,
              on eckankar.org, that at age 27
              (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
              and "twisting facts" (lying) about
              his "grand achievements" to get
              into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
              Thus, there was no trip to Paris
              (France) nor to India at age 15
              in 1923!

              http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html

              Twit states:
              "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
              quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
              six to seven months being taught
              and learning the works of ECK...
              Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]

              ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
              the "Mahanta" once during these
              months!

              PT: "I had already been initiated
              (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
              the same as everybody else, the
              second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]

              ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
              (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
              there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
              Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
              Singh was Twitchell's Master from
              1955-65. They even have the same
              last name! What's this mean? Well,
              it means that Eckankar was/is based
              upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
              is Klemp! There's no such thing as
              a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
              as believable as the Wizard of Oz!

              ***
              BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
              gives Twitchell's birth year as
              1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
              Books One and Two" on the Copyright
              Page.

              The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
              the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
              "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
              how PT's birthday corresponds
              to the Spiritual New Year and the
              Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
              ***

              PT: "And then I got the Third and
              Fourth, I went up through About
              the Seventh at this particular time
              (pg. 71)."

              ME: How does one go up to
              "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
              Wouldn't a person remember
              what initiation it was if it were
              true? This is just more proof
              that Twit was lying once again!

              PT: "... later [1951], but not
              on this trip, I followed him up
              there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
              and I got the finish (12th) of
              my initiations (pg. 71)."

              Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
              the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
              Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
              Master! I know this because Twitchell
              never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
              1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
              closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
              never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
              Jan. 1, 1969.

              Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
              year gap of knowledge (not knowing
              about the Mahanta) is quite simple
              right? I just can't figure out what it
              would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?

              Prometheus

              etznab wrote:

              I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
              appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.

              There were other early books that didn't mention
              it either, if I remember correctly.

              prometheus wrote:

              Hello Etznab and All,
              I started another thread for this discussion.
              Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
              1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
              until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
              up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
              that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
              Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
              and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
              Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
              one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
              editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
              fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
              delude its followers.

              Really, one would think that when the fictitious
              Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
              of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
              all of those secret teachings and when he made
              PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
              mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
              one time or another! However, it wasn't for
              Four More Years that this information (if we
              believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
              Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
              the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
              it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
              the right circumstances, for him to figure out
              the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
              are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
              some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
              gap, 1965-1969?

              Prometheus

              Hello Etznab,
              It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
              Twitchell claims to have received the
              Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
              he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
              have trouble remembering the details
              of their lies. That's why Twit made
              the date of the LEM lie correspond to
              his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
              created or started the "outer church"
              on this date. This way he'd remember
              it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
              is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
              every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
              history, on this date... his birthday!

              PT did promote "Flute" via installments
              (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
              REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
              these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
              The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
              didn't get into print until 1970 probably
              due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
              and the First Printing date of 1970 are
              given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
              of God.

              As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
              This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
              1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
              name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
              Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
              did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
              publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
              to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
              as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
              even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
              in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
              get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
              a past track record of lying has been verified
              by Klemp.

              The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
              but let's remember that Klemp states that
              Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
              Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
              mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
              that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
              there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
              in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
              "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

              If one has paid attention they will see that
              Klemp has not only given new covers to
              Paul's older works, but has done reediting
              as well. Just look at the differences and
              changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
              Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
              to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
              current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
              sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
              works, but he can do this because Gail sold
              the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

              Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
              ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
              included, that are still her friend. Then again,
              these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
              How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
              of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

              Prometheus

              etznab wrote:

              hat was interesting what you said about
              "Mahanta".

              Just the other day I was trying to remember
              exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
              experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
              and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
              Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

              Was that the date?

              I assumed the writing about it would have to
              be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
              for books after that date.

              The Flute of God came out in installments
              in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
              to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
              have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
              out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
              1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
              to Darwin Gross, I think.

              1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
              (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
              took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
              mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
              various other forms of "Master".

              All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
              In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

              It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
              "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
              By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
              The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
              I believe. (That would be the edited version of
              The Flute of God).

              The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
              from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
              he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
              one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
              "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

              The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
              "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

              OK. So where in all these books since 1965
              does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
              of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
              anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
              it at a seminar and it's on tape?

              I'd like to find out when that experience was
              mentioned and what was said about it to get
              an idea about what "history" might exist.

              Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
              I thought this query could be relevant to the
              "Mahanta" topic.

              Etznab

              prometheus wrote:

              Hello All,
              I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
              Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

              Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

              In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
              condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
              delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
              1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
              true."

              ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
              Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
              In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
              January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
              see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
              the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
              "The Wisdom Notes."

              Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
              Twitchell stole even the name from another
              spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
              in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
              was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
              of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
              form This was easy to accept, for most people
              believe in some universal force whether called
              "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
              associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
              and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
              of two words, he was able to transform himself
              into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
              meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
              "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
              and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
              by making it part of "every word, thought and
              action" of his followers."

              ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
              be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
              in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
              Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
              Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
              in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
              create this term/position for himself until 1969.

              BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
              by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
              Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
              used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
              (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
              that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
              was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

              The second thing was that Paul began to renege
              on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
              Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
              This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
              to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
              up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
              reproach and regain control as the highest of
              all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
              title and definition.

              Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
              for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
              on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
              12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
              states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
              Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
              need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
              on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
              for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
              of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
              is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
              Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
              straight!

              Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
              Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
              by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
              Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
              page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
              was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
              interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
              had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
              talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
              Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
              that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
              970th LEM, was from.

              I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
              wanted to present more details than what
              were first gathered. It's a big job digging
              for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
              Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
              up for him, as well as, creating his own
              newer version of Eckankar with more lies
              and distortions.

              There's one more thing that I wanted to
              mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
              Christians believe that Jesus will come
              again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
              believe that they will achieve Spiritual
              Freedom via God-Realization in this
              lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

              Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
              will deny this, but they share the same
              Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
              Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
              switch and made Adam into Adom and
              Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
              for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
              Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
              where ECKists have made fun of the
              Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
              would seem that they are laughing
              at themselves and don't realize it!
              How clueless! Then again, an inability
              to do critical thinking and Not being
              able to connect-the-dots is why they're
              still ECKists.

              Prometheus
            • ctecvie
              Hi Prometheus and all, commenting on the last paragraph of your post: Religions pretend that they can give answers to questions that cannot be answered. We
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 3, 2010
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                Hi Prometheus and all,

                commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                Religions pretend that they can give answers to questions that cannot be answered. We need to accept the fact that not everything can be explained. And that's where religions come in and make (our) money!

                Ingrid

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello All,
                > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                >
                > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                >
                > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                >
                > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                > eckankar.org
                >
                > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                > lied as to how many times he traveled
                > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                > Twit ever travelled to India!
                >
                > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                >
                > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                > conned people and that Klemp is still
                > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                > But, should anyone be surprised when
                > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                > gullible and loving people? Most people
                > want to believe and they want to believe
                > the best in whatever or whomever.
                > Everyone has to figure out what category
                > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                > are manmade just as religions are.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > Hello Etznab and All,
                > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                > Living ECK Master" are historical
                > transcriptions from private tapings
                > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                >
                > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                > made private tapings of his struggles
                > before and after his acceptance
                > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                > who presented these tapes to Sri
                > Darwin.)"
                >
                > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                > Twitchell tells his story of being
                > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                > lie! Marman states that this was
                > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                > as Paul would have us to believe.
                >
                > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                > his "grand achievements" to get
                > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                > (France) nor to India at age 15
                > in 1923!
                >
                > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                >
                >
                >
                > Twit states:
                > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                > six to seven months being taught
                > and learning the works of ECK...
                > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                >
                > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                > the "Mahanta" once during these
                > months!
                >
                > PT: "I had already been initiated
                > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                > the same as everybody else, the
                > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                >
                > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                > 1955-65. They even have the same
                > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                >
                > ***
                > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                > Page.
                >
                > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                > how PT's birthday corresponds
                > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                > ***
                >
                > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                > Fourth, I went up through About
                > the Seventh at this particular time
                > (pg. 71)."
                >
                > ME: How does one go up to
                > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                > Wouldn't a person remember
                > what initiation it was if it were
                > true? This is just more proof
                > that Twit was lying once again!
                >
                > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                > on this trip, I followed him up
                > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                > and I got the finish (12th) of
                > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                >
                > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                > Jan. 1, 1969.
                >
                > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                > right? I just can't figure out what it
                > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > etznab wrote:
                >
                > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                >
                > There were other early books that didn't mention
                > it either, if I remember correctly.
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello Etznab and All,
                > I started another thread for this discussion.
                > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                > delude its followers.
                >
                > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                > Four More Years that this information (if we
                > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                > gap, 1965-1969?
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > Hello Etznab,
                > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                > Twitchell claims to have received the
                > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                > have trouble remembering the details
                > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                > created or started the "outer church"
                > on this date. This way he'd remember
                > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                > history, on this date... his birthday!
                >
                > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                > of God.
                >
                > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                > a past track record of lying has been verified
                > by Klemp.
                >
                > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                >
                > If one has paid attention they will see that
                > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                > as well. Just look at the differences and
                > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                >
                > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > etznab wrote:
                >
                > hat was interesting what you said about
                > "Mahanta".
                >
                > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                >
                > Was that the date?
                >
                > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                > for books after that date.
                >
                > The Flute of God came out in installments
                > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                >
                > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                > various other forms of "Master".
                >
                > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                >
                > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                > The Flute of God).
                >
                > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                >
                > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                >
                > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                >
                > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                >
                > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                > "Mahanta" topic.
                >
                > Etznab
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello All,
                > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                >
                > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                >
                > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                > true."
                >
                > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                > "The Wisdom Notes."
                >
                > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                > believe in some universal force whether called
                > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                > action" of his followers."
                >
                > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                >
                > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                >
                > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                > title and definition.
                >
                > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                > straight!
                >
                > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                > 970th LEM, was from.
                >
                > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                > wanted to present more details than what
                > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                > and distortions.
                >
                > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                >
                > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                > will deny this, but they share the same
                > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                > where ECKists have made fun of the
                > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                > would seem that they are laughing
                > at themselves and don't realize it!
                > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                > to do critical thinking and Not being
                > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                > still ECKists.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Hi Ingrid and All, Yes, all religions take our money in one way or another. All of us pay for their Holy Wars that they wage upon the rest of us. Their members
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 4, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Ingrid and All,
                  Yes, all religions take our money
                  in one way or another. All of us pay
                  for their Holy Wars that they wage
                  upon the rest of us. Their members
                  also pay for future promises and to
                  feel good and all puffed-up, now,
                  while looking down their noses at
                  all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
                  interesting that so many of them
                  believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
                  dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
                  Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
                  that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
                  (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).

                  Prometheus

                  ctecvie wrote:

                  Hi Prometheus and all,

                  commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                  Religions pretend that they can give answers to
                  questions that cannot be answered. We need to
                  accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
                  And that's where religions come in and make (our)
                  money!

                  Ingrid


                  prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello All,
                  > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                  >
                  > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                  > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                  > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                  > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                  > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                  > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                  >
                  > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                  > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                  > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                  > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                  >
                  > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                  > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                  > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                  > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                  > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                  > eckankar.org
                  >
                  > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                  > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                  > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                  > lied as to how many times he traveled
                  > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                  > Twit ever travelled to India!
                  >
                  > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                  > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                  > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                  > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                  >
                  > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                  > conned people and that Klemp is still
                  > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                  > But, should anyone be surprised when
                  > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                  > gullible and loving people? Most people
                  > want to believe and they want to believe
                  > the best in whatever or whomever.
                  > Everyone has to figure out what category
                  > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                  > are manmade just as religions are.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  > Hello Etznab and All,
                  > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                  > Living ECK Master" are historical
                  > transcriptions from private tapings
                  > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                  >
                  > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                  > made private tapings of his struggles
                  > before and after his acceptance
                  > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                  > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                  > who presented these tapes to Sri
                  > Darwin.)"
                  >
                  > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                  > Twitchell tells his story of being
                  > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                  > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                  > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                  > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                  > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                  > lie! Marman states that this was
                  > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                  > as Paul would have us to believe.
                  >
                  > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                  > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                  > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                  > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                  > his "grand achievements" to get
                  > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                  > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                  > (France) nor to India at age 15
                  > in 1923!
                  >
                  http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Twit states:
                  > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                  > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                  > six to seven months being taught
                  > and learning the works of ECK...
                  > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                  >
                  > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                  > the "Mahanta" once during these
                  > months!
                  >
                  > PT: "I had already been initiated
                  > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                  > the same as everybody else, the
                  > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                  >
                  > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                  > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                  > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                  > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                  > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                  > 1955-65. They even have the same
                  > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                  > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                  > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                  > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                  > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                  > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                  >
                  > ***
                  > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                  > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                  > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                  > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                  > Page.
                  >
                  > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                  > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                  > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                  > how PT's birthday corresponds
                  > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                  > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                  > ***
                  >
                  > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                  > Fourth, I went up through About
                  > the Seventh at this particular time
                  > (pg. 71)."
                  >
                  > ME: How does one go up to
                  > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                  > Wouldn't a person remember
                  > what initiation it was if it were
                  > true? This is just more proof
                  > that Twit was lying once again!
                  >
                  > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                  > on this trip, I followed him up
                  > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                  > and I got the finish (12th) of
                  > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                  >
                  > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                  > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                  > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                  > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                  > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                  > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                  > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                  > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                  > Jan. 1, 1969.
                  >
                  > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                  > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                  > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                  > right? I just can't figure out what it
                  > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  > etznab wrote:
                  >
                  > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                  > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                  >
                  > There were other early books that didn't mention
                  > it either, if I remember correctly.
                  >
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Etznab and All,
                  > I started another thread for this discussion.
                  > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                  > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                  > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                  > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                  > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                  > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                  > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                  > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                  > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                  > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                  > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                  > delude its followers.
                  >
                  > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                  > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                  > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                  > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                  > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                  > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                  > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                  > Four More Years that this information (if we
                  > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                  > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                  > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                  > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                  > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                  > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                  > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                  > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                  > gap, 1965-1969?
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  > Hello Etznab,
                  > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                  > Twitchell claims to have received the
                  > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                  > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                  > have trouble remembering the details
                  > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                  > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                  > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                  > created or started the "outer church"
                  > on this date. This way he'd remember
                  > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                  > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                  > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                  > history, on this date... his birthday!
                  >
                  > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                  > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                  > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                  > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                  > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                  > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                  > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                  > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                  > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                  > of God.
                  >
                  > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                  > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                  > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                  > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                  > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                  > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                  > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                  > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                  > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                  > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                  > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                  > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                  > a past track record of lying has been verified
                  > by Klemp.
                  >
                  > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                  > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                  > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                  > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                  > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                  > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                  > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                  > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                  > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                  >
                  > If one has paid attention they will see that
                  > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                  > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                  > as well. Just look at the differences and
                  > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                  > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                  > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                  > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                  > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                  > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                  > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                  >
                  > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                  > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                  > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                  > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                  > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                  > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  > etznab wrote:
                  >
                  > hat was interesting what you said about
                  > "Mahanta".
                  >
                  > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                  > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                  > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                  > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                  > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                  >
                  > Was that the date?
                  >
                  > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                  > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                  > for books after that date.
                  >
                  > The Flute of God came out in installments
                  > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                  > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                  > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                  > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                  > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                  > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                  >
                  > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                  > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                  > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                  > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                  > various other forms of "Master".
                  >
                  > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                  > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                  >
                  > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                  > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                  > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                  > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                  > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                  > The Flute of God).
                  >
                  > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                  > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                  > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                  > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                  > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                  >
                  > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                  > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                  >
                  > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                  > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                  > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                  > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                  > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                  >
                  > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                  > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                  > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                  >
                  > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                  > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                  > "Mahanta" topic.
                  >
                  > Etznab
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello All,
                  > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                  > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                  >
                  > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                  >
                  > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                  > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                  > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                  > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                  > true."
                  >
                  > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                  > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                  > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                  > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                  > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                  > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                  > "The Wisdom Notes."
                  >
                  > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                  > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                  > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                  > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                  > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                  > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                  > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                  > believe in some universal force whether called
                  > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                  > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                  > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                  > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                  > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                  > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                  > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                  > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                  > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                  > action" of his followers."
                  >
                  > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                  > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                  > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                  > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                  > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                  > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                  > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                  >
                  > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                  > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                  > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                  > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                  > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                  > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                  > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                  >
                  > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                  > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                  > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                  > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                  > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                  > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                  > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                  > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                  > title and definition.
                  >
                  > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                  > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                  > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                  > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                  > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                  > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                  > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                  > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                  > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                  > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                  > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                  > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                  > straight!
                  >
                  > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                  > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                  > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                  > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                  > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                  > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                  > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                  > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                  > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                  > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                  > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                  > 970th LEM, was from.
                  >
                  > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                  > wanted to present more details than what
                  > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                  > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                  > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                  > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                  > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                  > and distortions.
                  >
                  > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                  > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                  > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                  > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                  > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                  > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                  > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                  >
                  > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                  > will deny this, but they share the same
                  > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                  > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                  > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                  > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                  > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                  > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                  > where ECKists have made fun of the
                  > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                  > would seem that they are laughing
                  > at themselves and don't realize it!
                  > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                  > to do critical thinking and Not being
                  > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                  > still ECKists.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                • ctecvie
                  Hi Prometheus, yes the feel good factor is another important issue why people need religions. Isn t it just great to feel like the ones who will be saved
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 5, 2010
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                    Hi Prometheus,

                    yes the "feel good" factor is another important issue why people need religions. Isn't it just great to feel like the ones who will be "saved" because they belong to the "right" group of people and to just know it all? It's really so good to look down on the poor devils who haven't figured it out for themselves ... :-D

                    And the karma thingie in eckankar is the same thing as the original sin of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened their eyes, they could see that very easily! LOL!

                    Ingrid

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Ingrid and All,
                    > Yes, all religions take our money
                    > in one way or another. All of us pay
                    > for their Holy Wars that they wage
                    > upon the rest of us. Their members
                    > also pay for future promises and to
                    > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
                    > while looking down their noses at
                    > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
                    > interesting that so many of them
                    > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
                    > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
                    > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
                    > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
                    > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    > ctecvie wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Prometheus and all,
                    >
                    > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                    > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
                    > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
                    > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
                    > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
                    > money!
                    >
                    > Ingrid
                    >
                    >
                    > prometheus wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello All,
                    > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                    > >
                    > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                    > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                    > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                    > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                    > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                    > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                    > >
                    > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                    > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                    > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                    > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                    > >
                    > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                    > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                    > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                    > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                    > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                    > > eckankar.org
                    > >
                    > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                    > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                    > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                    > > lied as to how many times he traveled
                    > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                    > > Twit ever travelled to India!
                    > >
                    > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                    > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                    > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                    > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                    > >
                    > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                    > > conned people and that Klemp is still
                    > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                    > > But, should anyone be surprised when
                    > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                    > > gullible and loving people? Most people
                    > > want to believe and they want to believe
                    > > the best in whatever or whomever.
                    > > Everyone has to figure out what category
                    > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                    > > are manmade just as religions are.
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > prometheus wrote:
                    > > Hello Etznab and All,
                    > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                    > > Living ECK Master" are historical
                    > > transcriptions from private tapings
                    > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                    > >
                    > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                    > > made private tapings of his struggles
                    > > before and after his acceptance
                    > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                    > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                    > > who presented these tapes to Sri
                    > > Darwin.)"
                    > >
                    > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                    > > Twitchell tells his story of being
                    > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                    > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                    > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                    > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                    > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                    > > lie! Marman states that this was
                    > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                    > > as Paul would have us to believe.
                    > >
                    > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                    > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                    > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                    > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                    > > his "grand achievements" to get
                    > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                    > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                    > > (France) nor to India at age 15
                    > > in 1923!
                    > >
                    > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Twit states:
                    > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                    > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                    > > six to seven months being taught
                    > > and learning the works of ECK...
                    > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                    > >
                    > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                    > > the "Mahanta" once during these
                    > > months!
                    > >
                    > > PT: "I had already been initiated
                    > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                    > > the same as everybody else, the
                    > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                    > >
                    > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                    > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                    > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                    > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                    > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                    > > 1955-65. They even have the same
                    > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                    > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                    > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                    > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                    > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                    > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                    > >
                    > > ***
                    > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                    > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                    > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                    > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                    > > Page.
                    > >
                    > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                    > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                    > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                    > > how PT's birthday corresponds
                    > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                    > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                    > > ***
                    > >
                    > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                    > > Fourth, I went up through About
                    > > the Seventh at this particular time
                    > > (pg. 71)."
                    > >
                    > > ME: How does one go up to
                    > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                    > > Wouldn't a person remember
                    > > what initiation it was if it were
                    > > true? This is just more proof
                    > > that Twit was lying once again!
                    > >
                    > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                    > > on this trip, I followed him up
                    > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                    > > and I got the finish (12th) of
                    > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                    > >
                    > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                    > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                    > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                    > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                    > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                    > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                    > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                    > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                    > > Jan. 1, 1969.
                    > >
                    > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                    > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                    > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                    > > right? I just can't figure out what it
                    > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > etznab wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                    > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                    > >
                    > > There were other early books that didn't mention
                    > > it either, if I remember correctly.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > prometheus wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello Etznab and All,
                    > > I started another thread for this discussion.
                    > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                    > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                    > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                    > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                    > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                    > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                    > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                    > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                    > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                    > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                    > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                    > > delude its followers.
                    > >
                    > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                    > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                    > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                    > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                    > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                    > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                    > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                    > > Four More Years that this information (if we
                    > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                    > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                    > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                    > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                    > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                    > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                    > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                    > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                    > > gap, 1965-1969?
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > > Hello Etznab,
                    > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                    > > Twitchell claims to have received the
                    > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                    > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                    > > have trouble remembering the details
                    > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                    > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                    > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                    > > created or started the "outer church"
                    > > on this date. This way he'd remember
                    > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                    > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                    > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                    > > history, on this date... his birthday!
                    > >
                    > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                    > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                    > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                    > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                    > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                    > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                    > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                    > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                    > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                    > > of God.
                    > >
                    > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                    > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                    > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                    > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                    > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                    > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                    > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                    > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                    > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                    > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                    > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                    > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                    > > a past track record of lying has been verified
                    > > by Klemp.
                    > >
                    > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                    > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                    > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                    > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                    > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                    > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                    > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                    > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                    > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                    > >
                    > > If one has paid attention they will see that
                    > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                    > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                    > > as well. Just look at the differences and
                    > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                    > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                    > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                    > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                    > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                    > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                    > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                    > >
                    > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                    > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                    > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                    > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                    > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                    > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > > etznab wrote:
                    > >
                    > > hat was interesting what you said about
                    > > "Mahanta".
                    > >
                    > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                    > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                    > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                    > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                    > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                    > >
                    > > Was that the date?
                    > >
                    > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                    > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                    > > for books after that date.
                    > >
                    > > The Flute of God came out in installments
                    > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                    > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                    > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                    > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                    > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                    > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                    > >
                    > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                    > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                    > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                    > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                    > > various other forms of "Master".
                    > >
                    > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                    > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                    > >
                    > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                    > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                    > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                    > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                    > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                    > > The Flute of God).
                    > >
                    > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                    > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                    > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                    > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                    > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                    > >
                    > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                    > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                    > >
                    > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                    > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                    > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                    > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                    > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                    > >
                    > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                    > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                    > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                    > >
                    > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                    > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                    > > "Mahanta" topic.
                    > >
                    > > Etznab
                    > >
                    > > prometheus wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello All,
                    > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                    > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                    > >
                    > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                    > >
                    > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                    > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                    > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                    > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                    > > true."
                    > >
                    > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                    > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                    > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                    > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                    > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                    > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                    > > "The Wisdom Notes."
                    > >
                    > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                    > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                    > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                    > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                    > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                    > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                    > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                    > > believe in some universal force whether called
                    > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                    > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                    > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                    > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                    > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                    > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                    > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                    > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                    > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                    > > action" of his followers."
                    > >
                    > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                    > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                    > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                    > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                    > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                    > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                    > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                    > >
                    > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                    > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                    > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                    > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                    > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                    > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                    > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                    > >
                    > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                    > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                    > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                    > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                    > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                    > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                    > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                    > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                    > > title and definition.
                    > >
                    > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                    > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                    > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                    > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                    > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                    > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                    > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                    > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                    > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                    > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                    > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                    > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                    > > straight!
                    > >
                    > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                    > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                    > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                    > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                    > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                    > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                    > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                    > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                    > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                    > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                    > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                    > > 970th LEM, was from.
                    > >
                    > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                    > > wanted to present more details than what
                    > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                    > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                    > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                    > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                    > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                    > > and distortions.
                    > >
                    > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                    > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                    > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                    > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                    > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                    > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                    > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                    > >
                    > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                    > > will deny this, but they share the same
                    > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                    > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                    > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                    > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                    > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                    > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                    > > where ECKists have made fun of the
                    > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                    > > would seem that they are laughing
                    > > at themselves and don't realize it!
                    > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                    > > to do critical thinking and Not being
                    > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                    > > still ECKists.
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    >
                  • prometheus_973
                    Hello Ingrid, I was curious if you know how many countries force people to pay a tax for church membership? Which countries and which churches does it include?
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 5, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello Ingrid,
                      I was curious if you know how
                      many countries force people to
                      pay a tax for church membership?
                      Which countries and which churches
                      does it include? Why are these
                      governments forcing people to
                      pay this tax? Are the churches that
                      powerful, or is the government taking
                      their cut too? Is it just the Catholic and
                      Lutheran churches? Were you forced
                      to pay a tax due to Eckankar membership?

                      Forgive the questions but I've heard
                      something about this happening in
                      Germany.

                      Prometheus


                      ctecvie wrote:

                      Hi Prometheus,

                      yes the "feel good" factor is another
                      important issue why people need
                      religions. Isn't it just great to feel
                      like the ones who will be "saved"
                      because they belong to the "right"
                      group of people and to just know
                      it all? It's really so good to look
                      down on the poor devils who haven't
                      figured it out for themselves
                      ... :-D

                      And the karma thingie in eckankar
                      is the same thing as the original sin
                      of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened
                      their eyes, they could see that very easily!
                      LOL!

                      Ingrid

                      prometheus wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Ingrid and All,
                      > Yes, all religions take our money
                      > in one way or another. All of us pay
                      > for their Holy Wars that they wage
                      > upon the rest of us. Their members
                      > also pay for future promises and to
                      > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
                      > while looking down their noses at
                      > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
                      > interesting that so many of them
                      > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
                      > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
                      > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
                      > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
                      > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                      > ctecvie wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Prometheus and all,
                      >
                      > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                      > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
                      > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
                      > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
                      > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
                      > money!
                      >
                      > Ingrid
                      >
                      >
                      > prometheus wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello All,
                      > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                      > >
                      > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                      > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                      > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                      > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                      > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                      > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                      > >
                      > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                      > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                      > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                      > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                      > >
                      > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                      > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                      > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                      > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                      > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                      > > eckankar.org
                      > >
                      > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                      > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                      > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                      > > lied as to how many times he traveled
                      > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                      > > Twit ever travelled to India!
                      > >
                      > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                      > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                      > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                      > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                      > >
                      > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                      > > conned people and that Klemp is still
                      > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                      > > But, should anyone be surprised when
                      > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                      > > gullible and loving people? Most people
                      > > want to believe and they want to believe
                      > > the best in whatever or whomever.
                      > > Everyone has to figure out what category
                      > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                      > > are manmade just as religions are.
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > prometheus wrote:
                      > > Hello Etznab and All,
                      > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                      > > Living ECK Master" are historical
                      > > transcriptions from private tapings
                      > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                      > >
                      > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                      > > made private tapings of his struggles
                      > > before and after his acceptance
                      > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                      > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                      > > who presented these tapes to Sri
                      > > Darwin.)"
                      > >
                      > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                      > > Twitchell tells his story of being
                      > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                      > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                      > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                      > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                      > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                      > > lie! Marman states that this was
                      > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                      > > as Paul would have us to believe.
                      > >
                      > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                      > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                      > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                      > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                      > > his "grand achievements" to get
                      > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                      > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                      > > (France) nor to India at age 15
                      > > in 1923!
                      > >
                      > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Twit states:
                      > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                      > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                      > > six to seven months being taught
                      > > and learning the works of ECK...
                      > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                      > >
                      > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                      > > the "Mahanta" once during these
                      > > months!
                      > >
                      > > PT: "I had already been initiated
                      > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                      > > the same as everybody else, the
                      > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                      > >
                      > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                      > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                      > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                      > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                      > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                      > > 1955-65. They even have the same
                      > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                      > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                      > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                      > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                      > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                      > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                      > >
                      > > ***
                      > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                      > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                      > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                      > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                      > > Page.
                      > >
                      > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                      > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                      > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                      > > how PT's birthday corresponds
                      > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                      > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                      > > ***
                      > >
                      > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                      > > Fourth, I went up through About
                      > > the Seventh at this particular time
                      > > (pg. 71)."
                      > >
                      > > ME: How does one go up to
                      > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                      > > Wouldn't a person remember
                      > > what initiation it was if it were
                      > > true? This is just more proof
                      > > that Twit was lying once again!
                      > >
                      > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                      > > on this trip, I followed him up
                      > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                      > > and I got the finish (12th) of
                      > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                      > >
                      > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                      > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                      > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                      > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                      > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                      > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                      > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                      > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                      > > Jan. 1, 1969.
                      > >
                      > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                      > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                      > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                      > > right? I just can't figure out what it
                      > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > etznab wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                      > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                      > >
                      > > There were other early books that didn't mention
                      > > it either, if I remember correctly.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > prometheus wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello Etznab and All,
                      > > I started another thread for this discussion.
                      > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                      > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                      > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                      > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                      > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                      > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                      > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                      > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                      > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                      > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                      > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                      > > delude its followers.
                      > >
                      > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                      > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                      > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                      > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                      > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                      > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                      > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                      > > Four More Years that this information (if we
                      > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                      > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                      > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                      > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                      > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                      > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                      > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                      > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                      > > gap, 1965-1969?
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                      > >
                      > > Hello Etznab,
                      > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                      > > Twitchell claims to have received the
                      > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                      > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                      > > have trouble remembering the details
                      > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                      > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                      > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                      > > created or started the "outer church"
                      > > on this date. This way he'd remember
                      > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                      > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                      > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                      > > history, on this date... his birthday!
                      > >
                      > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                      > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                      > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                      > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                      > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                      > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                      > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                      > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                      > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                      > > of God.
                      > >
                      > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                      > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                      > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                      > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                      > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                      > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                      > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                      > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                      > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                      > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                      > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                      > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                      > > a past track record of lying has been verified
                      > > by Klemp.
                      > >
                      > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                      > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                      > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                      > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                      > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                      > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                      > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                      > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                      > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                      > >
                      > > If one has paid attention they will see that
                      > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                      > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                      > > as well. Just look at the differences and
                      > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                      > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                      > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                      > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                      > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                      > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                      > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                      > >
                      > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                      > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                      > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                      > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                      > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                      > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                      > >
                      > > etznab wrote:
                      > >
                      > > hat was interesting what you said about
                      > > "Mahanta".
                      > >
                      > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                      > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                      > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                      > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                      > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                      > >
                      > > Was that the date?
                      > >
                      > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                      > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                      > > for books after that date.
                      > >
                      > > The Flute of God came out in installments
                      > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                      > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                      > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                      > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                      > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                      > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                      > >
                      > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                      > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                      > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                      > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                      > > various other forms of "Master".
                      > >
                      > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                      > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                      > >
                      > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                      > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                      > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                      > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                      > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                      > > The Flute of God).
                      > >
                      > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                      > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                      > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                      > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                      > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                      > >
                      > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                      > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                      > >
                      > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                      > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                      > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                      > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                      > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                      > >
                      > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                      > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                      > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                      > >
                      > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                      > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                      > > "Mahanta" topic.
                      > >
                      > > Etznab
                      > >
                      > > prometheus wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello All,
                      > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                      > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                      > >
                      > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                      > >
                      > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                      > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                      > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                      > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                      > > true."
                      > >
                      > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                      > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                      > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                      > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                      > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                      > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                      > > "The Wisdom Notes."
                      > >
                      > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                      > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                      > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                      > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                      > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                      > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                      > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                      > > believe in some universal force whether called
                      > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                      > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                      > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                      > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                      > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                      > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                      > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                      > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                      > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                      > > action" of his followers."
                      > >
                      > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                      > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                      > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                      > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                      > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                      > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                      > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                      > >
                      > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                      > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                      > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                      > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                      > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                      > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                      > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                      > >
                      > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                      > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                      > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                      > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                      > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                      > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                      > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                      > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                      > > title and definition.
                      > >
                      > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                      > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                      > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                      > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                      > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                      > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                      > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                      > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                      > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                      > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                      > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                      > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                      > > straight!
                      > >
                      > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                      > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                      > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                      > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                      > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                      > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                      > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                      > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                      > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                      > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                      > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                      > > 970th LEM, was from.
                      > >
                      > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                      > > wanted to present more details than what
                      > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                      > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                      > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                      > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                      > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                      > > and distortions.
                      > >
                      > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                      > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                      > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                      > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                      > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                      > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                      > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                      > >
                      > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                      > > will deny this, but they share the same
                      > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                      > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                      > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                      > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                      > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                      > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                      > > where ECKists have made fun of the
                      > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                      > > would seem that they are laughing
                      > > at themselves and don't realize it!
                      > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                      > > to do critical thinking and Not being
                      > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                      > > still ECKists.
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                    • ctecvie
                      Hi Prometheus, ... ***In Austria, it s only the Catholic church. As far as I know, Lutherans don t pay anything. And no, I didn t pay any tex when I was a
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 5, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Prometheus,

                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Ingrid,
                        > I was curious if you know how
                        > many countries force people to
                        > pay a tax for church membership?
                        ***In Austria it's the Catholic church. I don't know if there are any other countries but I think that in Germany a church tax is deduced directly from the salary if you are a member of that particular church - I think it's the Lutherans.

                        > Which countries and which churches
                        > does it include? Why are these
                        > governments forcing people to
                        > pay this tax?
                        ***In Austria, it's not the government but the Catholic church itself. Once you start working and are a Catholic, they come inevitably and charge you a fee. You need to give proof of your salary because if you don't they'll just charge you any amount that comes them to mind. I left the Catholic church in 1986, so no more hassle since that time! If you try to disappear, they'll find you somehow.

                        >Are the churches that
                        > powerful, or is the government taking
                        > their cut too?
                        ***Not in Austria, no.
                        >Is it just the Catholic and
                        > Lutheran churches? Were you forced
                        > to pay a tax due to Eckankar membership?
                        ***In Austria, it's only the Catholic church. As far as I know, Lutherans don't pay anything. And no, I didn't pay any tex when I was a member of eckankar.
                        Ingrid

                        >
                        > Forgive the questions but I've heard
                        > something about this happening in
                        > Germany.
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        >
                        > ctecvie wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Prometheus,
                        >
                        > yes the "feel good" factor is another
                        > important issue why people need
                        > religions. Isn't it just great to feel
                        > like the ones who will be "saved"
                        > because they belong to the "right"
                        > group of people and to just know
                        > it all? It's really so good to look
                        > down on the poor devils who haven't
                        > figured it out for themselves
                        > ... :-D
                        >
                        > And the karma thingie in eckankar
                        > is the same thing as the original sin
                        > of the Catholics - if the ekkies opened
                        > their eyes, they could see that very easily!
                        > LOL!
                        >
                        > Ingrid
                        >
                        > prometheus wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi Ingrid and All,
                        > > Yes, all religions take our money
                        > > in one way or another. All of us pay
                        > > for their Holy Wars that they wage
                        > > upon the rest of us. Their members
                        > > also pay for future promises and to
                        > > feel good and all puffed-up, now,
                        > > while looking down their noses at
                        > > all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
                        > > interesting that so many of them
                        > > believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
                        > > dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
                        > > Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
                        > > that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
                        > > (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).
                        > >
                        > > Prometheus
                        > >
                        > > ctecvie wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi Prometheus and all,
                        > >
                        > > commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                        > > Religions pretend that they can give answers to
                        > > questions that cannot be answered. We need to
                        > > accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
                        > > And that's where religions come in and make (our)
                        > > money!
                        > >
                        > > Ingrid
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > prometheus wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hello All,
                        > > > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                        > > >
                        > > > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                        > > > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                        > > > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                        > > > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                        > > > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                        > > > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                        > > >
                        > > > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                        > > > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                        > > > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                        > > > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                        > > >
                        > > > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                        > > > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                        > > > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                        > > > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                        > > > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                        > > > eckankar.org
                        > > >
                        > > > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                        > > > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                        > > > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                        > > > lied as to how many times he traveled
                        > > > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                        > > > Twit ever travelled to India!
                        > > >
                        > > > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                        > > > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                        > > > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                        > > > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                        > > >
                        > > > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                        > > > conned people and that Klemp is still
                        > > > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                        > > > But, should anyone be surprised when
                        > > > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                        > > > gullible and loving people? Most people
                        > > > want to believe and they want to believe
                        > > > the best in whatever or whomever.
                        > > > Everyone has to figure out what category
                        > > > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                        > > > are manmade just as religions are.
                        > > >
                        > > > Prometheus
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > prometheus wrote:
                        > > > Hello Etznab and All,
                        > > > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                        > > > Living ECK Master" are historical
                        > > > transcriptions from private tapings
                        > > > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                        > > >
                        > > > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                        > > > made private tapings of his struggles
                        > > > before and after his acceptance
                        > > > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                        > > > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                        > > > who presented these tapes to Sri
                        > > > Darwin.)"
                        > > >
                        > > > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                        > > > Twitchell tells his story of being
                        > > > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                        > > > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                        > > > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                        > > > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                        > > > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                        > > > lie! Marman states that this was
                        > > > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                        > > > as Paul would have us to believe.
                        > > >
                        > > > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                        > > > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                        > > > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                        > > > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                        > > > his "grand achievements" to get
                        > > > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                        > > > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                        > > > (France) nor to India at age 15
                        > > > in 1923!
                        > > >
                        > > http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Twit states:
                        > > > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                        > > > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                        > > > six to seven months being taught
                        > > > and learning the works of ECK...
                        > > > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                        > > >
                        > > > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                        > > > the "Mahanta" once during these
                        > > > months!
                        > > >
                        > > > PT: "I had already been initiated
                        > > > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                        > > > the same as everybody else, the
                        > > > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                        > > >
                        > > > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                        > > > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                        > > > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                        > > > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                        > > > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                        > > > 1955-65. They even have the same
                        > > > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                        > > > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                        > > > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                        > > > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                        > > > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                        > > > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                        > > >
                        > > > ***
                        > > > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                        > > > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                        > > > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                        > > > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                        > > > Page.
                        > > >
                        > > > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                        > > > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                        > > > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                        > > > how PT's birthday corresponds
                        > > > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                        > > > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                        > > > ***
                        > > >
                        > > > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                        > > > Fourth, I went up through About
                        > > > the Seventh at this particular time
                        > > > (pg. 71)."
                        > > >
                        > > > ME: How does one go up to
                        > > > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                        > > > Wouldn't a person remember
                        > > > what initiation it was if it were
                        > > > true? This is just more proof
                        > > > that Twit was lying once again!
                        > > >
                        > > > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                        > > > on this trip, I followed him up
                        > > > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                        > > > and I got the finish (12th) of
                        > > > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                        > > >
                        > > > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                        > > > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                        > > > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                        > > > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                        > > > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                        > > > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                        > > > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                        > > > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                        > > > Jan. 1, 1969.
                        > > >
                        > > > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                        > > > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                        > > > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                        > > > right? I just can't figure out what it
                        > > > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                        > > >
                        > > > Prometheus
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > etznab wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                        > > > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                        > > >
                        > > > There were other early books that didn't mention
                        > > > it either, if I remember correctly.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > prometheus wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hello Etznab and All,
                        > > > I started another thread for this discussion.
                        > > > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                        > > > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                        > > > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                        > > > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                        > > > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                        > > > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                        > > > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                        > > > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                        > > > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                        > > > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                        > > > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                        > > > delude its followers.
                        > > >
                        > > > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                        > > > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                        > > > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                        > > > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                        > > > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                        > > > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                        > > > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                        > > > Four More Years that this information (if we
                        > > > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                        > > > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                        > > > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                        > > > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                        > > > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                        > > > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                        > > > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                        > > > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                        > > > gap, 1965-1969?
                        > > >
                        > > > Prometheus
                        > > >
                        > > > Hello Etznab,
                        > > > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                        > > > Twitchell claims to have received the
                        > > > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                        > > > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                        > > > have trouble remembering the details
                        > > > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                        > > > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                        > > > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                        > > > created or started the "outer church"
                        > > > on this date. This way he'd remember
                        > > > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                        > > > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                        > > > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                        > > > history, on this date... his birthday!
                        > > >
                        > > > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                        > > > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                        > > > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                        > > > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                        > > > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                        > > > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                        > > > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                        > > > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                        > > > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                        > > > of God.
                        > > >
                        > > > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                        > > > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                        > > > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                        > > > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                        > > > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                        > > > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                        > > > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                        > > > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                        > > > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                        > > > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                        > > > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                        > > > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                        > > > a past track record of lying has been verified
                        > > > by Klemp.
                        > > >
                        > > > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                        > > > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                        > > > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                        > > > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                        > > > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                        > > > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                        > > > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                        > > > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                        > > > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                        > > >
                        > > > If one has paid attention they will see that
                        > > > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                        > > > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                        > > > as well. Just look at the differences and
                        > > > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                        > > > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                        > > > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                        > > > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                        > > > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                        > > > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                        > > > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                        > > >
                        > > > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                        > > > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                        > > > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                        > > > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                        > > > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                        > > > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                        > > >
                        > > > Prometheus
                        > > >
                        > > > etznab wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > hat was interesting what you said about
                        > > > "Mahanta".
                        > > >
                        > > > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                        > > > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                        > > > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                        > > > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                        > > > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                        > > >
                        > > > Was that the date?
                        > > >
                        > > > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                        > > > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                        > > > for books after that date.
                        > > >
                        > > > The Flute of God came out in installments
                        > > > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                        > > > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                        > > > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                        > > > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                        > > > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                        > > > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                        > > >
                        > > > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                        > > > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                        > > > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                        > > > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                        > > > various other forms of "Master".
                        > > >
                        > > > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                        > > > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                        > > >
                        > > > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                        > > > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                        > > > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                        > > > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                        > > > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                        > > > The Flute of God).
                        > > >
                        > > > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                        > > > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                        > > > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                        > > > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                        > > > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                        > > >
                        > > > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                        > > > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                        > > >
                        > > > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                        > > > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                        > > > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                        > > > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                        > > > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                        > > >
                        > > > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                        > > > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                        > > > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                        > > >
                        > > > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                        > > > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                        > > > "Mahanta" topic.
                        > > >
                        > > > Etznab
                        > > >
                        > > > prometheus wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hello All,
                        > > > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                        > > > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                        > > >
                        > > > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                        > > >
                        > > > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                        > > > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                        > > > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                        > > > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                        > > > true."
                        > > >
                        > > > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                        > > > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                        > > > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                        > > > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                        > > > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                        > > > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                        > > > "The Wisdom Notes."
                        > > >
                        > > > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                        > > > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                        > > > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                        > > > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                        > > > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                        > > > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                        > > > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                        > > > believe in some universal force whether called
                        > > > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                        > > > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                        > > > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                        > > > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                        > > > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                        > > > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                        > > > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                        > > > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                        > > > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                        > > > action" of his followers."
                        > > >
                        > > > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                        > > > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                        > > > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                        > > > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                        > > > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                        > > > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                        > > > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                        > > >
                        > > > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                        > > > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                        > > > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                        > > > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                        > > > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                        > > > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                        > > > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                        > > >
                        > > > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                        > > > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                        > > > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                        > > > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                        > > > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                        > > > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                        > > > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                        > > > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                        > > > title and definition.
                        > > >
                        > > > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                        > > > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                        > > > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                        > > > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                        > > > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                        > > > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                        > > > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                        > > > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                        > > > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                        > > > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                        > > > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                        > > > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                        > > > straight!
                        > > >
                        > > > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                        > > > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                        > > > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                        > > > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                        > > > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                        > > > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                        > > > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                        > > > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                        > > > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                        > > > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                        > > > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                        > > > 970th LEM, was from.
                        > > >
                        > > > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                        > > > wanted to present more details than what
                        > > > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                        > > > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                        > > > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                        > > > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                        > > > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                        > > > and distortions.
                        > > >
                        > > > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                        > > > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                        > > > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                        > > > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                        > > > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                        > > > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                        > > > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                        > > >
                        > > > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                        > > > will deny this, but they share the same
                        > > > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                        > > > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                        > > > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                        > > > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                        > > > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                        > > > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                        > > > where ECKists have made fun of the
                        > > > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                        > > > would seem that they are laughing
                        > > > at themselves and don't realize it!
                        > > > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                        > > > to do critical thinking and Not being
                        > > > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                        > > > still ECKists.
                        > > >
                        > > > Prometheus
                        >
                      • prometheus_973
                        Hello All, It seems that all religions represent the original pyramid scheme via their hierarchies. Those ECK Vahanas are sales people who have a vested
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 6, 2010
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                          Hello All,
                          It seems that all religions represent
                          the original pyramid scheme via
                          their hierarchies. Those ECK Vahanas
                          are sales people who have a vested
                          interest in the company. They have
                          something to gain by selling their
                          products (Eckankar materials and
                          memberships). Their payment is
                          prestige, hope, belief, promises,
                          and initiation points while Klemp
                          and company acquire more money
                          and influence/power over their
                          subjects.

                          And, it's clear that ECKists can't
                          voice displeasure with the way
                          things are done because that would
                          be "negative."

                          Besides, there are repercussions
                          for voicing an honest assessment
                          of those "above" them. No ECKist
                          wants to be Black Listed on initiations
                          or on positions and titles within the
                          hierarchy. No one wants to be shunned,
                          but it does happen. These are just
                          part of the control and fear tactics
                          used. Thus, Silence, Service and
                          Surrender become the three keys
                          for Klemp's Success!

                          Prometheus




                          prometheus wrote:

                          Hi Ingrid and All,
                          Yes, all religions take our money
                          in one way or another. All of us pay
                          for their Holy Wars that they wage
                          upon the rest of us. Their members
                          also pay for future promises and to
                          feel good and all puffed-up, now,
                          while looking down their noses at
                          all of the other poor lost Souls. It's
                          interesting that so many of them
                          believe in the "end-of-days" propaganda/
                          dogma including Eckankar (Kali Yuga)!
                          Plus, there's the Garden of Eden Myth
                          that Eckankar, also, subscribes to
                          (see "Polarians" pg. 162, 1998 ECK Lexicon).

                          Prometheus

                          ctecvie wrote:

                          Hi Prometheus and all,

                          commenting on the last paragraph of your post:
                          Religions pretend that they can give answers to
                          questions that cannot be answered. We need to
                          accept the fact that not everything can be explained.
                          And that's where religions come in and take (our)
                          money!

                          Ingrid


                          prometheus wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello All,
                          > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                          >
                          > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                          > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                          > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                          > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                          > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                          > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                          >
                          > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                          > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                          > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                          > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                          >
                          > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                          > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                          > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                          > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                          > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                          > eckankar.org
                          >
                          > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                          > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                          > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                          > lied as to how many times he traveled
                          > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                          > Twit ever travelled to India!
                          >
                          > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                          > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                          > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                          > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                          >
                          > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                          > conned people and that Klemp is still
                          > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                          > But, should anyone be surprised when
                          > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                          > gullible and loving people? Most people
                          > want to believe and they want to believe
                          > the best in whatever or whomever.
                          > Everyone has to figure out what category
                          > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                          > are manmade just as religions are.
                          >
                          > Prometheus
                          >
                          >
                          > prometheus wrote:
                          > Hello Etznab and All,
                          > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                          > Living ECK Master" are historical
                          > transcriptions from private tapings
                          > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                          >
                          > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                          > made private tapings of his struggles
                          > before and after his acceptance
                          > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                          > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                          > who presented these tapes to Sri
                          > Darwin.)"
                          >
                          > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                          > Twitchell tells his story of being
                          > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                          > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                          > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                          > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                          > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                          > lie! Marman states that this was
                          > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                          > as Paul would have us to believe.
                          >
                          > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                          > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                          > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                          > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                          > his "grand achievements" to get
                          > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                          > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                          > (France) nor to India at age 15
                          > in 1923!
                          >
                          http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Twit states:
                          > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                          > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                          > six to seven months being taught
                          > and learning the works of ECK...
                          > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                          >
                          > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                          > the "Mahanta" once during these
                          > months!
                          >
                          > PT: "I had already been initiated
                          > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                          > the same as everybody else, the
                          > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                          >
                          > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                          > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                          > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                          > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                          > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                          > 1955-65. They even have the same
                          > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                          > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                          > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                          > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                          > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                          > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                          >
                          > ***
                          > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                          > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                          > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                          > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                          > Page.
                          >
                          > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                          > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                          > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                          > how PT's birthday corresponds
                          > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                          > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                          > ***
                          >
                          > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                          > Fourth, I went up through About
                          > the Seventh at this particular time
                          > (pg. 71)."
                          >
                          > ME: How does one go up to
                          > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                          > Wouldn't a person remember
                          > what initiation it was if it were
                          > true? This is just more proof
                          > that Twit was lying once again!
                          >
                          > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                          > on this trip, I followed him up
                          > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                          > and I got the finish (12th) of
                          > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                          >
                          > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                          > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                          > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                          > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                          > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                          > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                          > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                          > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                          > Jan. 1, 1969.
                          >
                          > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                          > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                          > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                          > right? I just can't figure out what it
                          > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                          >
                          > Prometheus
                          >
                          >
                          > etznab wrote:
                          >
                          > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                          > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                          >
                          > There were other early books that didn't mention
                          > it either, if I remember correctly.
                          >
                          >
                          > prometheus wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello Etznab and All,
                          > I started another thread for this discussion.
                          > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                          > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                          > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                          > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                          > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                          > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                          > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                          > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                          > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                          > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                          > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                          > delude its followers.
                          >
                          > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                          > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                          > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                          > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                          > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                          > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                          > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                          > Four More Years that this information (if we
                          > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                          > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                          > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                          > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                          > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                          > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                          > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                          > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                          > gap, 1965-1969?
                          >
                          > Prometheus
                          >
                          > Hello Etznab,
                          > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                          > Twitchell claims to have received the
                          > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                          > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                          > have trouble remembering the details
                          > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                          > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                          > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                          > created or started the "outer church"
                          > on this date. This way he'd remember
                          > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                          > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                          > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                          > history, on this date... his birthday!
                          >
                          > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                          > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                          > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                          > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                          > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                          > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                          > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                          > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                          > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                          > of God.
                          >
                          > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                          > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                          > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                          > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                          > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                          > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                          > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                          > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                          > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                          > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                          > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                          > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                          > a past track record of lying has been verified
                          > by Klemp.
                          >
                          > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                          > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                          > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                          > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                          > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                          > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                          > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                          > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                          > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                          >
                          > If one has paid attention they will see that
                          > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                          > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                          > as well. Just look at the differences and
                          > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                          > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                          > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                          > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                          > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                          > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                          > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                          >
                          > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                          > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                          > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                          > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                          > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                          > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                          >
                          > Prometheus
                          >
                          > etznab wrote:
                          >
                          > hat was interesting what you said about
                          > "Mahanta".
                          >
                          > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                          > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                          > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                          > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                          > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                          >
                          > Was that the date?
                          >
                          > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                          > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                          > for books after that date.
                          >
                          > The Flute of God came out in installments
                          > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                          > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                          > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                          > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                          > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                          > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                          >
                          > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                          > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                          > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                          > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                          > various other forms of "Master".
                          >
                          > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                          > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                          >
                          > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                          > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                          > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                          > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                          > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                          > The Flute of God).
                          >
                          > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                          > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                          > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                          > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                          > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                          >
                          > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                          > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                          >
                          > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                          > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                          > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                          > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                          > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                          >
                          > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                          > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                          > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                          >
                          > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                          > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                          > "Mahanta" topic.
                          >
                          > Etznab
                          >
                          > prometheus wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello All,
                          > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                          > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                          >
                          > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                          >
                          > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                          > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                          > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                          > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                          > true."
                          >
                          > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                          > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                          > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                          > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                          > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                          > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                          > "The Wisdom Notes."
                          >
                          > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                          > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                          > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                          > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                          > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                          > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                          > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                          > believe in some universal force whether called
                          > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                          > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                          > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                          > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                          > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                          > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                          > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                          > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                          > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                          > action" of his followers."
                          >
                          > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                          > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                          > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                          > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                          > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                          > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                          > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                          >
                          > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                          > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                          > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                          > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                          > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                          > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                          > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                          >
                          > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                          > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                          > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                          > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                          > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                          > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                          > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                          > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                          > title and definition.
                          >
                          > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                          > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                          > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                          > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                          > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                          > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                          > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                          > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                          > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                          > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                          > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                          > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                          > straight!
                          >
                          > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                          > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                          > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                          > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                          > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                          > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                          > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                          > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                          > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                          > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                          > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                          > 970th LEM, was from.
                          >
                          > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                          > wanted to present more details than what
                          > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                          > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                          > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                          > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                          > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                          > and distortions.
                          >
                          > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                          > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                          > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                          > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                          > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                          > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                          > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                          >
                          > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                          > will deny this, but they share the same
                          > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                          > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                          > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                          > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                          > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                          > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                          > where ECKists have made fun of the
                          > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                          > would seem that they are laughing
                          > at themselves and don't realize it!
                          > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                          > to do critical thinking and Not being
                          > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                          > still ECKists.
                          >
                          > Prometheus
                        • prometheus_973
                          Twitchell s Last Mystic World Article July-August-September 1971 [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM, pages 251-254] Up until his last days Twitchell was still
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 6, 2010
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                            Twitchell's Last Mystic World Article
                            July-August-September 1971
                            [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
                            pages 251-254]

                            Up until his last days Twitchell was
                            still conning people and rewriting
                            his and ECKankar's history (in third
                            person) in order to give validation
                            to his outlandish claims/lies/dogma.
                            And, for some reason people believed
                            it! However, Why don't some of these
                            same people who bought into it then,
                            don't now? Where's Klemp's Virgin
                            Birth that would qualify him as a
                            "Mahanta?" Klemp was born the
                            second child. Is Twitchell lying about
                            these details?


                            "During the early part of the seventeenth
                            century, four ECK spiritual masters
                            who serve in the spiritual hierarchy,
                            met in the ancient sacred city of Agam
                            Des in the Himalayan Mountains.

                            They were:

                            Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam, the
                            great deity of the fifth world,
                            commonly called the Soul Plane;

                            Rebazar Tarzs, emissary for the
                            ECK in the physical universe today;

                            Gopal Das, spiritual master at the
                            Golden Wisdom Temple on the Astral
                            Plane and

                            Yaubl Sacabi, spiritual head of
                            the ancient city of Agam Des."

                            ME: BTW- Ramaj is actually Rama.
                            And, in the Spiritual Notebook, 10th
                            printing, Twitchell calls him Ramaji
                            on page 196.

                            PT: "They met to discuss the birth
                            of the coming AVATAR for the twentieth
                            century [himself, Paul Twitchell], Peddar
                            Zaskq. Born in the Caucasian mountains
                            during the Seventeenth Century, he lived
                            and was trained to the heights of spiritual
                            perfection."

                            ME: And yet, even when he was reborn
                            as Paul Twitchell he had no knowledge
                            of the "Mahanta" Consciousness nor
                            for 18 years After his 12th Initiation,
                            by Rebazar (1951), to ECK Master status!

                            PT: "Given several years in the Art
                            of Silence and Darkness he gained
                            Enlightenment in Preparation for his
                            return to the Twentieth Century. When
                            the time came for his demise, he passed
                            away still looking the same youthful
                            appearance yet beyond the normal
                            age of man."

                            ME: Was Peddar's study in the "Art
                            of Darkness" preparation for becoming
                            a liar and deceiver and a practitioner
                            of the Black Arts as a Black Magician?
                            It seems this was a Freudian slip on
                            PT's part.

                            PT: "He was prepared for entering
                            into the world again to take up his
                            mission. The four great ECK Masters
                            met once more, but this time at the
                            Sakipura Monastery in the vast
                            mountains of the northern Himalayas.

                            This time the ancient prediction that
                            a New World Avatar would be born
                            on a great body of water, near the
                            shores where horses grazed was
                            to become true. This time Peddar
                            Zaskq was born on a Mississippi
                            river packet enroute to New Orleans.

                            The Miraculous Birth took place
                            just below the city of Natchez,
                            Mississippi near a stock farm.
                            At the time of his birth, a great
                            earthquake shook the Mississippi
                            valley, forming a vast body of
                            lakes in western Tennessee.

                            There appeared a BLUE CARNATION
                            in a vase on a night table by the
                            mother's bed."

                            ME: This Blue Carnation symbol
                            of the Mahanta Consciousness
                            was created by Twitchell after-the-
                            fact with 20/20 hindsight. This is
                            another rewrite by Twitchell. If he
                            did have the "Mahanta Consciousness"
                            then why didn't he mention it prior
                            to 1969? This 1971 pub is to rectify
                            that mistake and act as a cover-up.

                            PT: "The work of the Hierarchy
                            was completed except for the training
                            of Peddar Zaskq. It was immediately
                            arranged for him to be given a home
                            in which to be raised.

                            His Foster Parents raised him in a
                            small souther river town [Paducah,
                            Kentucky]. He adopted their name
                            and became known as Paul Twitchell
                            in the Twentieth Century."

                            ME: Isn't this a different story from
                            what Klemp has mentioned? Klemp
                            and Marman, both, have suggested
                            that Paul's father had an affair and
                            that he was allowed to take Paul and
                            raise him. Thus, the other children
                            were Paul's half-brothers and sisters
                            and his mother was his step-mother.
                            Paul told this lie in order to have a
                            virgin birth like Jesus and other
                            Avatars, and to establish the "Blue
                            Carnation" of the Mahanta connection.
                            This is, also, why Darwin stated that
                            Paul was the only Mahanta for the
                            next thousand years. DG didn't have
                            a "virgin birth" and neither did Klemp!

                            PT: "He [Paul Twitchell aka Peddar
                            Zaskq] looked and acted and was
                            raised accordingly like any American
                            child, except for his enormous knowledge
                            and ability to do Soul Travel."

                            ME: Once again, Twit is selling himself.
                            Snake oil anyone? It's "blue" too!

                            PT: "None knew much about him for
                            he kept to himself. His companion in
                            these years was his Stepsister who
                            gave him much of his knowledge on
                            Soul Travel. She acted as the instrument
                            through which the divine power flowed
                            to open his consciousness to God
                            again, and acted as his guide until
                            ECK Masters were able to take over."

                            ME: So, I wonder what initiation level
                            Paul's stepsister (Kay-Dee) was? That's
                            probably another story (lie). But, Wow!
                            Paul was really unloading a pile of B.S.
                            wasn't he! It's no wonder Klemp had Peter
                            Skelsky round up and destroy all of these
                            copies of "Difficulties of Becoming the
                            Living ECK Master." Does Marman believe
                            that the true, one and only, Mahanta
                            has to be born of a Virgin like Twitchell
                            states? Or, does Marman think Paul was
                            lying about his Virgin Birth like he did
                            with "Paris."

                            PT: "The rest of his story is told in
                            fragments of his first visit to Paris
                            to be with his stepsister, who was
                            in training to be an artist. It was here
                            that he [Paul/Peddar] first met Sudar
                            [Kirpal] Singh, an ECK Master, and
                            followed him to India with his stepsister
                            to study ECK[ankar].

                            Later as a young man, he returned
                            to India and set out to find Rebazar
                            Tarzs, the ancient Tibetan ECK Master,
                            near Darjeeling. It was here that the
                            contact was made with the great ECK
                            emissary and his training taken over
                            to prepare him for world leadership
                            in spiritual affairs. July-August-September
                            1971"

                            Prometheus


                            prometheus wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello All,
                            > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies:
                            >
                            > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                            > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                            > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                            > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                            > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                            > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                            >
                            > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                            > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                            > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                            > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                            >
                            > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                            > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                            > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                            > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                            > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                            > eckankar.org
                            >
                            > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                            > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                            > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                            > lied as to how many times he traveled
                            > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                            > Twit ever travelled to India!
                            >
                            > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                            > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                            > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                            > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                            >
                            > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                            > conned people and that Klemp is still
                            > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                            > But, should anyone be surprised when
                            > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                            > gullible and loving people? Most people
                            > want to believe and they want to believe
                            > the best in whatever or whomever.
                            > Everyone has to figure out what category
                            > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                            > are manmade just as religions are.
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                            >
                            > prometheus wrote:
                            > Hello Etznab and All,
                            > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                            > Living ECK Master" are historical
                            > transcriptions from private tapings
                            > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                            >
                            > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                            > made private tapings of his struggles
                            > before and after his acceptance
                            > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                            > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                            > who presented these tapes to Sri
                            > Darwin.)"
                            >
                            > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                            > Twitchell tells his story of being
                            > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                            > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                            > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                            > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                            > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                            > lie! Marman states that this was
                            > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                            > as Paul would have us to believe.
                            >
                            > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                            > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                            > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                            > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                            > his "grand achievements" to get
                            > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                            > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                            > (France) nor to India at age 15
                            > in 1923!
                            >
                            http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Twit states:
                            > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                            > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                            > six to seven months being taught
                            > and learning the works of ECK...
                            > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                            >
                            > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                            > the "Mahanta" once during these
                            > months!
                            >
                            > PT: "I had already been initiated
                            > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                            > the same as everybody else, the
                            > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                            >
                            > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                            > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                            > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                            > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                            > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                            > 1955-65. They even have the same
                            > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                            > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                            > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                            > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                            > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                            > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                            >
                            > ***
                            > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                            > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                            > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                            > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                            > Page.
                            >
                            > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                            > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                            > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                            > how PT's birthday corresponds
                            > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                            > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                            > ***
                            >
                            > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                            > Fourth, I went up through About
                            > the Seventh at this particular time
                            > (pg. 71)."
                            >
                            > ME: How does one go up to
                            > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                            > Wouldn't a person remember
                            > what initiation it was if it were
                            > true? This is just more proof
                            > that Twit was lying once again!
                            >
                            > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                            > on this trip, I followed him up
                            > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                            > and I got the finish (12th) of
                            > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                            >
                            > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                            > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                            > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                            > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                            > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                            > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                            > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                            > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                            > Jan. 1, 1969.
                            >
                            > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                            > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                            > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                            > right? I just can't figure out what it
                            > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                            >
                            > etznab wrote:
                            >
                            > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                            > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                            >
                            > There were other early books that didn't mention
                            > it either, if I remember correctly.
                            >
                            >
                            > prometheus wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello Etznab and All,
                            > I started another thread for this discussion.
                            > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                            > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                            > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                            > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                            > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                            > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                            > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                            > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                            > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                            > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                            > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                            > delude its followers.
                            >
                            > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                            > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                            > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                            > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                            > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                            > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                            > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                            > Four More Years that this information (if we
                            > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                            > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                            > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                            > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                            > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                            > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                            > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                            > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                            > gap, 1965-1969?
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                            > Hello Etznab,
                            > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                            > Twitchell claims to have received the
                            > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                            > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                            > have trouble remembering the details
                            > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                            > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                            > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                            > created or started the "outer church"
                            > on this date. This way he'd remember
                            > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                            > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                            > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                            > history, on this date... his birthday!
                            >
                            > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                            > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                            > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                            > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                            > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                            > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                            > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                            > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                            > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                            > of God.
                            >
                            > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                            > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                            > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                            > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                            > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                            > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                            > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                            > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                            > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                            > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                            > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                            > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                            > a past track record of lying has been verified
                            > by Klemp.
                            >
                            > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                            > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                            > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                            > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                            > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                            > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                            > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                            > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                            > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                            >
                            > If one has paid attention they will see that
                            > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                            > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                            > as well. Just look at the differences and
                            > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                            > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                            > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                            > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                            > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                            > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                            > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                            >
                            > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                            > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                            > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                            > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                            > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                            > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                            > etznab wrote:
                            >
                            > hat was interesting what you said about
                            > "Mahanta".
                            >
                            > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                            > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                            > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                            > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                            > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                            >
                            > Was that the date?
                            >
                            > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                            > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                            > for books after that date.
                            >
                            > The Flute of God came out in installments
                            > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                            > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                            > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                            > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                            > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                            > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                            >
                            > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                            > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                            > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                            > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                            > various other forms of "Master".
                            >
                            > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                            > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                            >
                            > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                            > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                            > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                            > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                            > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                            > The Flute of God).
                            >
                            > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                            > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                            > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                            > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                            > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                            >
                            > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                            > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                            >
                            > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                            > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                            > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                            > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                            > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                            >
                            > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                            > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                            > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                            >
                            > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                            > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                            > "Mahanta" topic.
                            >
                            > Etznab
                            >
                            > prometheus wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello All,
                            > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                            > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                            >
                            > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                            >
                            > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                            > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                            > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                            > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                            > true."
                            >
                            > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                            > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                            > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                            > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                            > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                            > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                            > "The Wisdom Notes."
                            >
                            > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                            > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                            > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                            > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                            > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                            > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                            > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                            > believe in some universal force whether called
                            > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                            > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                            > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                            > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                            > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                            > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                            > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                            > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                            > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                            > action" of his followers."
                            >
                            > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                            > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                            > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                            > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                            > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                            > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                            > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                            >
                            > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                            > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                            > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                            > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                            > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                            > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                            > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                            >
                            > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                            > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                            > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                            > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                            > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                            > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                            > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                            > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                            > title and definition.
                            >
                            > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                            > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                            > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                            > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                            > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                            > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                            > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                            > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                            > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                            > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                            > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                            > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                            > straight!
                            >
                            > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                            > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                            > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                            > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                            > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                            > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                            > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                            > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                            > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                            > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                            > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                            > 970th LEM, was from.
                            >
                            > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                            > wanted to present more details than what
                            > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                            > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                            > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                            > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                            > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                            > and distortions.
                            >
                            > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                            > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                            > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                            > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                            > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                            > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                            > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                            >
                            > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                            > will deny this, but they share the same
                            > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                            > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                            > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                            > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                            > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                            > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                            > where ECKists have made fun of the
                            > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                            > would seem that they are laughing
                            > at themselves and don't realize it!
                            > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                            > to do critical thinking and Not being
                            > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                            > still ECKists.
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                          • prometheus_973
                            Here s more to verify the Virgin Birth requirement for the Mahanta. This can be found in the Holy Books of ECKankar, The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Books One & Two
                            Message 13 of 15 , Mar 7, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Here's more to verify the "Virgin
                              Birth" requirement for the Mahanta.
                              This can be found in the Holy Books
                              of ECKankar, "The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad
                              Books One & Two" (copyright 2000)
                              pages 111-112. Or, check the index
                              of the Shariyat One under "Mahanta,
                              birth of."

                              BTW- The following information is
                              found in Book One of the Shariyat.

                              The Foreword, on page x, states:

                              "Book One is the first section of these
                              works, which was dictated by FUBBI
                              QUANTZ, the great ECK Master who
                              serves at the Katsupari Monastery
                              in Northern Tibet.

                              ME: Remember, too, Klemp was the
                              "SECOND" Child Born to his mother.

                              "The Mahanta is Always born near
                              or on a large body of water. His
                              Birth is Always Mysterious, and
                              men of ordinary birth Do Not Know
                              his Origin. NOR does any man know
                              who his sires might be, their true
                              names, or their true origin."

                              ME: Since we know Klemp's origins
                              (the Fremont, WI. area) and who his
                              parents were (he spoke of them in
                              his books and these were his REAL
                              parents) we can see that, already,
                              Klemp Doesn't fulfill the requirements
                              listed above.

                              "The ECK enters into the womb
                              of a VIRGIN, the Queen of Heaven,
                              who has submitted to the True Spirit
                              of the universe. The Consciousness
                              of the Mahanta State is planted as
                              the seed and carefully nurtured in
                              the womb. When the embodiment
                              of flesh is brought into this world,
                              a man-child is born."

                              As I pointed out, Klemp had an
                              older brother, Dwayne, therefore
                              HK could Not have had a "Virgin
                              Birth" and according to Fubbi, and
                              this "Holy" Shariyat, Klemp Does
                              Not meet this criteria either.

                              On the other hand, Klemp had
                              pointed out that Twitchell had
                              lied in 1935, at the age of 27,
                              to get into Who's Who. It could
                              be that Twitchell was still lying,
                              here, in 1970 when this Shariyat
                              One was Copyrighted. However,
                              this would simply point out that
                              everything (the ECK Masters, the
                              Mahanta, and the whole foundation
                              of ECKankar is built upon is lies!

                              So, ECKists either have to turn a
                              Blind-Eye to this, as they have in
                              the past, or they have to ask the
                              hard questions:

                              1) Is Twitchell, or Fubbi, lying about
                              the "Virgin Birth" Mahanta Requirements?
                              If Paul is lying then he's, also, lying
                              about Fubbi's existence!

                              OR

                              2) If Twitchell, or Fubbi, were telling
                              the Truth about the Mahanta needing
                              to be Born by a Virgin then Klemp
                              is lying about being the Mahanta!

                              Really, is Eckankar's Holy Book
                              wrong? Or, did "Fubbi" distort the
                              truth? Is Fubbi another lie of Paul's?
                              What else is a distortion? Klemp
                              can't claim that Fubbi was using
                              "artistic license" or can he? Klemp
                              seems to exaggerate and twist facts
                              as much as, or more, than Twitchell.

                              BTW-Catch-22 is double-speak
                              and means that HK can change the
                              rules, or the interpretation of the
                              rules anytime he wants. His "Con"
                              is higher than yours, thus, you wouldn't
                              understand even he he tried to explain
                              it because he has to "lower" it by
                              using 4th Mental Plane thoughts
                              and words. It's a blank check.

                              Yes, Klemp Did have the opportunity
                              to edit this "Virgin Birth" Mahanta
                              requirement out in 2000, but didn't!
                              Apparently, Klemp doesn't have the
                              need to do so. After all, ECKists will
                              believe anything he tells them.

                              Klemp did come up with the "Mahanta-
                              in-Training" excuse to explain that
                              Darwin (972th LEM) was Not a true
                              or "Full" (14th) Mahanta and, therefore,
                              it was okay for him (a 12th) and his
                              EK "Board" to depose/dispose of him.

                              However, Klemp can't explain away
                              the "Virgin Birth" scripture requirement.
                              Unless, Klemp really isn't a 14th "Full"
                              Mahanta and is still "in-training" for
                              this position for another future lifetime
                              just as Peddar Zaskq, supposedly, had
                              to do. Why has Klemp lied about being
                              a "Full" 14th Mahanta? Vanity!

                              Perhaps Klemp, too, has had the Rod
                              of ECK Power "BURN" him for not letting
                              go years earlier when he should have.
                              IMO (from an EK standpoint)-HK fell
                              from Grace circa 1990 and is, now, just
                              acting out the role with the support of
                              Joan and other cohorts at the ESC.

                              The truth is that they (Twitchell, Gross,
                              and Klemp) have all acted "AS IF" their
                              religious LEM/Mahanta roles were
                              "Spiritual." It wasn't/isn't! Eckankar is
                              just another religious con that attracts
                              those with a "New Age" belief system.
                              Even New Age people, who have turned
                              their backs on the large mass religions,
                              need something.Therefore, Eckankar
                              is an alternative for those with alternative
                              beliefs. People are social animals and
                              have a strong need to belong to some
                              group.

                              However, a religious "group consciousness,"
                              shaped by the leader, impedes one's
                              individual search and progress by lowering
                              it through conformity! It's rather ironic
                              that ECKists, and other New Agers, tend
                              to view themselves as "Non-Conformists."
                              Yet, ECKists, end up following rules, laws,
                              Zoas, Guidelines, and Scripture and anything
                              that Klemp tells them. Where is the Spiritual
                              Freedom there, or in needing to pay an
                              annual "membership" in order to receive
                              and maintain one's "spiritual" advancement
                              (initiations)? See! It all a con! But what choice
                              do ECKists have when they are too weak-
                              minded via fear tactics and brain-washing?

                              However, once they do leave Eckankar
                              they will feel a burden lifted from their
                              shoulders. The stress will leave! They
                              will now have increased moments of
                              "Contentment." And, a new Clarity of
                              mind and of Soul will be experienced
                              and revealed.

                              Prometheus


                              ***
                              Twitchell's Last Mystic World Article
                              July-August-September 1971
                              [Difficulties of Becoming the LEM,
                              pages 251-254]

                              Up until his last days Twitchell was
                              still conning people and rewriting
                              his and ECKankar's history (in third
                              person) in order to give validation
                              to his outlandish claims/lies/dogma.
                              And, for some reason people believed
                              it! However, Why don't some of these
                              same people who bought into it then,
                              don't now? Where's Klemp's Virgin
                              Birth that would qualify him as a
                              "Mahanta?" Klemp was born the
                              second child. Is Twitchell lying about
                              these details?


                              "During the early part of the seventeenth
                              century, four ECK spiritual masters
                              who serve in the spiritual hierarchy,
                              met in the ancient sacred city of Agam
                              Des in the Himalayan Mountains.

                              They were:

                              Ramaj, viceroy for Sat Nam, the
                              great deity of the fifth world,
                              commonly called the Soul Plane;

                              Rebazar Tarzs, emissary for the
                              ECK in the physical universe today;

                              Gopal Das, spiritual master at the
                              Golden Wisdom Temple on the Astral
                              Plane and

                              Yaubl Sacabi, spiritual head of
                              the ancient city of Agam Des."

                              ME: BTW- Ramaj is actually Rama.
                              And, in the Spiritual Notebook, 10th
                              printing, Twitchell calls him Ramaji
                              on page 196.

                              PT: "They met to discuss the birth
                              of the coming AVATAR for the twentieth
                              century [himself, Paul Twitchell], Peddar
                              Zaskq. Born in the Caucasian mountains
                              during the Seventeenth Century, he lived
                              and was trained to the heights of spiritual
                              perfection."

                              ME: And yet, even when he was reborn
                              as Paul Twitchell he had no knowledge
                              of the "Mahanta" Consciousness nor
                              for 18 years After his 12th Initiation,
                              by Rebazar (1951), to ECK Master status!

                              PT: "Given several years in the Art
                              of Silence and Darkness he gained
                              Enlightenment in Preparation for his
                              return to the Twentieth Century. When
                              the time came for his demise, he passed
                              away still looking the same youthful
                              appearance yet beyond the normal
                              age of man."

                              ME: Was Peddar's study in the "Art
                              of Darkness" preparation for becoming
                              a liar and deceiver and a practitioner
                              of the Black Arts as a Black Magician?
                              It seems this was a Freudian slip on
                              PT's part.

                              PT: "He was prepared for entering
                              into the world again to take up his
                              mission. The four great ECK Masters
                              met once more, but this time at the
                              Sakipura Monastery in the vast
                              mountains of the northern Himalayas.

                              This time the ancient prediction that
                              a New World Avatar would be born
                              on a great body of water, near the
                              shores where horses grazed was
                              to become true. This time Peddar
                              Zaskq was born on a Mississippi
                              river packet enroute to New Orleans.

                              The Miraculous Birth took place
                              just below the city of Natchez,
                              Mississippi near a stock farm.
                              At the time of his birth, a great
                              earthquake shook the Mississippi
                              valley, forming a vast body of
                              lakes in western Tennessee.

                              There appeared a BLUE CARNATION
                              in a vase on a night table by the
                              mother's bed."

                              ME: This Blue Carnation symbol
                              of the Mahanta Consciousness
                              was created by Twitchell after-the-
                              fact with 20/20 hindsight. This is
                              another rewrite by Twitchell. If he
                              did have the "Mahanta Consciousness"
                              then why didn't he mention it prior
                              to 1969? This 1971 pub is to rectify
                              that mistake and act as a cover-up.

                              PT: "The work of the Hierarchy
                              was completed except for the training
                              of Peddar Zaskq. It was immediately
                              arranged for him to be given a home
                              in which to be raised.

                              His Foster Parents raised him in a
                              small souther river town [Paducah,
                              Kentucky]. He adopted their name
                              and became known as Paul Twitchell
                              in the Twentieth Century."

                              ME: Isn't this a different story from
                              what Klemp has mentioned? Klemp
                              and Marman, both, have suggested
                              that Paul's father had an affair and
                              that he was allowed to take Paul and
                              raise him. Thus, the other children
                              were Paul's half-brothers and sisters
                              and his mother was his step-mother.
                              Paul told this lie in order to have a
                              virgin birth like Jesus and other
                              Avatars, and to establish the "Blue
                              Carnation" of the Mahanta connection.
                              This is, also, why Darwin stated that
                              Paul was the only Mahanta for the
                              next thousand years. DG didn't have
                              a "virgin birth" and neither did Klemp!

                              PT: "He [Paul Twitchell aka Peddar
                              Zaskq] looked and acted and was
                              raised accordingly like any American
                              child, except for his enormous knowledge
                              and ability to do Soul Travel."

                              ME: Once again, Twit is selling himself.
                              Snake oil anyone? It's "blue" too!

                              PT: "None knew much about him for
                              he kept to himself. His companion in
                              these years was his Stepsister who
                              gave him much of his knowledge on
                              Soul Travel. She acted as the instrument
                              through which the divine power flowed
                              to open his consciousness to God
                              again, and acted as his guide until
                              ECK Masters were able to take over."

                              ME: So, I wonder what initiation level
                              Paul's stepsister (Kay-Dee) was? That's
                              probably another story (lie). But, Wow!
                              Paul was really unloading a pile of B.S.
                              wasn't he! It's no wonder Klemp had Peter
                              Skelsky round up and destroy all of these
                              copies of "Difficulties of Becoming the
                              Living ECK Master." Does Marman believe
                              that the true, one and only, Mahanta
                              has to be born of a Virgin like Twitchell
                              states? Or, does Marman think Paul was
                              lying about his Virgin Birth like he did
                              with "Paris."

                              PT: "The rest of his story is told in
                              fragments of his first visit to Paris
                              to be with his stepsister, who was
                              in training to be an artist. It was here
                              that he [Paul/Peddar] first met Sudar
                              [Kirpal] Singh, an ECK Master, and
                              followed him to India with his stepsister
                              to study ECK[ankar].

                              Later as a young man, he returned
                              to India and set out to find Rebazar
                              Tarzs, the ancient Tibetan ECK Master,
                              near Darjeeling. It was here that the
                              contact was made with the great ECK
                              emissary and his training taken over
                              to prepare him for world leadership
                              in spiritual affairs. July-August-September
                              1971"

                              Prometheus


                              prometheus wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello All,
                              > Let's summarize Paul's Initiation lies
                              from Difficulties Of Becoming the LEM:
                              >
                              > 1) 2nd Initiation - by Sudar Singh
                              > at "about" age 16 (1923-24).
                              > Paul states that he and Kay-Dee
                              > traveled from "Paris," with Sudar,
                              > and stayed in Allahabad, India
                              > for one year. [pgs. 40 & 45]
                              >
                              > 2) 3rd-7th Initiations - were given
                              > to Paul at age 39 (1947) while visiting
                              > Rebazar, for 6-7 months, in the Hindu
                              > Kush Mountains. [pgs 70-71]
                              >
                              > 3) 8th-12th initiations - were given
                              > to Paul by Rebazar. Paul followed RT
                              > into the Hindu Kush at age 43 (1951).
                              > [pg. 71] Klemp claims that this was
                              > Twitchell's "second visit to India" on
                              > eckankar.org
                              >
                              > Therefore, we have Klemp stating that
                              > Twitchell lied (early on) at age 27 (1935),
                              > in order to get into Who's Who. Also, PT
                              > lied as to how many times he traveled
                              > to India. Actually, I'm not so sure that
                              > Twit ever travelled to India!
                              >
                              > Now, in these July, 1971, "private tapings"
                              > we see that Paul (the Mahanta) is still
                              > lying! And, this is just a couple of months
                              > before his death on Sept. 17, 1971!
                              >
                              > What's it all mean? It means that Twit
                              > conned people and that Klemp is still
                              > conning them. It's all a Big Fat Lie!
                              > But, should anyone be surprised when
                              > religions lie to the stupid or to trusting,
                              > gullible and loving people? Most people
                              > want to believe and they want to believe
                              > the best in whatever or whomever.
                              > Everyone has to figure out what category
                              > of delusion they fall-in. Hierarchies
                              > are manmade just as religions are.
                              >
                              > Prometheus
                              >
                              >
                              > prometheus wrote:

                              > Hello Etznab and All,
                              > "Difficulties Of Becoming The
                              > Living ECK Master" are Historical
                              > Transcriptions from Private Tapings
                              > by Twitchell. On page 11 it states:
                              >
                              > "(In July 1971, Sri Paul Twitchell
                              > made private tapings of his struggles
                              > before and after his acceptance
                              > of the Rod of ECK Power on October
                              > 22, 1965... Our thanks to Patti Simpson
                              > who presented these tapes to Sri
                              > Darwin.)"
                              >
                              > On pages 45-48, and 70-71,
                              > Twitchell tells his story of being
                              > initiated by Rebazar, at age 39
                              > in 1947, on supposedly, his FIRST
                              > trip to India. Except, Paul claims,
                              > at age 15, he visited SUDAR in India
                              > after leaving Paris. Oops! Another
                              > lie! Marman states that this was
                              > Paris, Kentucky and Not France
                              > as Paul would have us to believe.
                              >
                              > Let's also recall that Klemp states,
                              > on eckankar.org, that at age 27
                              > (1935) Paul was "exaggerating"
                              > and "twisting facts" (lying) about
                              > his "grand achievements" to get
                              > into "Who's Who in Kentucky."
                              > Thus, there was no trip to Paris
                              > (France) nor to India at age 15
                              > in 1923!
                              >
                              http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/hisStory.html
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Twit states:
                              > "In 1947... I stayed there (India) for
                              > quite sometime with him (Rebazar),
                              > six to seven months being taught
                              > and learning the works of ECK...
                              > Now, he initiated me there." [pg.70]
                              >
                              > ME: Yet, Rebazar never mentioned
                              > the "Mahanta" once during these
                              > months!
                              >
                              > PT: "I had already been initiated
                              > (at age 15, 1923) by Sudar Singh,
                              > the same as everybody else, the
                              > second initiation." [pgs. 48 & 70]
                              >
                              > ME: This was, also, an exaggeration
                              > (lie) according to Klemp! Therefore,
                              > there was No Initiation by Sudar Singh.
                              > Actually, there was no Sudar. Kirpal
                              > Singh was Twitchell's Master from
                              > 1955-65. They even have the same
                              > last name! What's this mean? Well,
                              > it means that Eckankar was/is based
                              > upon lie after lie! It's a fraud and so
                              > is Klemp! There's no such thing as
                              > a real "Mahanta." Klemp isn't even
                              > as believable as the Wizard of Oz!
                              >
                              > ***
                              > BTW- Let's remember that Klemp
                              > gives Twitchell's birth year as
                              > 1908 in "The Combined Shariyat,
                              > Books One and Two" on the Copyright
                              > Page.
                              >
                              > The Oct. 22 birthday is given in
                              > the 1998 EK Lexicon, on page 61,
                              > "ECK Spiritual New Year." Funny
                              > how PT's birthday corresponds
                              > to the Spiritual New Year and the
                              > Passing of the Rod of ECK Power!
                              > ***
                              >
                              > PT: "And then I got the Third and
                              > Fourth, I went up through About
                              > the Seventh at this particular time
                              > (pg. 71)."
                              >
                              > ME: How does one go up to
                              > "About" the Seventh Initiation?"
                              > Wouldn't a person remember
                              > what initiation it was if it were
                              > true? This is just more proof
                              > that Twit was lying once again!
                              >
                              > PT: "... later [1951], but not
                              > on this trip, I followed him up
                              > there (the Hindu Kush Mountains)
                              > and I got the finish (12th) of
                              > my initiations (pg. 71)."
                              >
                              > Apparently Rebazar never mentioned
                              > the Mahanta, from 1951-1967, while
                              > Twitchell was a 12th initiate and ECK
                              > Master! I know this because Twitchell
                              > never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                              > 1967 "The Tiger's Fang!" However, upon
                              > closer inspection, the "Mahanta" was
                              > never mentioned (by Twit) prior to
                              > Jan. 1, 1969.
                              >
                              > Now, the ekplanation for this 16-18
                              > year gap of knowledge (not knowing
                              > about the Mahanta) is quite simple
                              > right? I just can't figure out what it
                              > would be! Insanity, denial, stupidity?
                              >
                              > Prometheus
                              >
                              >
                              > etznab wrote:
                              >
                              > I agree it is most peculiar that "Mahanta" didn't
                              > appear in The Tiger's Fang published 1967.
                              >
                              > There were other early books that didn't mention
                              > it either, if I remember correctly.
                              >
                              >
                              > prometheus wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello Etznab and All,
                              > I started another thread for this discussion.
                              > Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                              > 1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                              > until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                              > up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                              > that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                              > Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                              > and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                              > Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                              > one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                              > editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                              > fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                              > delude its followers.
                              >
                              > Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                              > Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                              > of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                              > all of those secret teachings and when he made
                              > PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                              > mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                              > one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                              > Four More Years that this information (if we
                              > believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                              > Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                              > the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                              > it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                              > the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                              > the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                              > are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                              > some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                              > gap, 1965-1969?
                              >
                              > Prometheus
                              >
                              > Hello Etznab,
                              > It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                              > Twitchell claims to have received the
                              > Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                              > he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                              > have trouble remembering the details
                              > of their lies. That's why Twit made
                              > the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                              > his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                              > created or started the "outer church"
                              > on this date. This way he'd remember
                              > it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                              > is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                              > every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                              > history, on this date... his birthday!
                              >
                              > PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                              > (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                              > REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                              > these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                              > The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                              > didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                              > due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                              > and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                              > given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                              > of God.
                              >
                              > As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                              > This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                              > 1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                              > name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                              > Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                              > did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                              > publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                              > to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                              > as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                              > even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                              > in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                              > get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                              > a past track record of lying has been verified
                              > by Klemp.
                              >
                              > The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                              > but let's remember that Klemp states that
                              > Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                              > Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                              > mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                              > that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                              > there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                              > in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                              > "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!
                              >
                              > If one has paid attention they will see that
                              > Klemp has not only given new covers to
                              > Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                              > as well. Just look at the differences and
                              > changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                              > Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                              > to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                              > current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                              > sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                              > works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                              > the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.
                              >
                              > Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                              > ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                              > included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                              > these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                              > How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                              > of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?
                              >
                              > Prometheus
                              >
                              > etznab wrote:
                              >
                              > hat was interesting what you said about
                              > "Mahanta".
                              >
                              > Just the other day I was trying to remember
                              > exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                              > experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                              > and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                              > Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)
                              >
                              > Was that the date?
                              >
                              > I assumed the writing about it would have to
                              > be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                              > for books after that date.
                              >
                              > The Flute of God came out in installments
                              > in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                              > to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                              > have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                              > out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                              > 1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                              > to Darwin Gross, I think.
                              >
                              > 1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                              > (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                              > took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                              > mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                              > various other forms of "Master".
                              >
                              > All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                              > In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.
                              >
                              > It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                              > "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                              > By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                              > The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                              > I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                              > The Flute of God).
                              >
                              > The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                              > from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                              > he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                              > one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                              > "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".
                              >
                              > The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                              > "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.
                              >
                              > OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                              > does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                              > of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                              > anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                              > it at a seminar and it's on tape?
                              >
                              > I'd like to find out when that experience was
                              > mentioned and what was said about it to get
                              > an idea about what "history" might exist.
                              >
                              > Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                              > I thought this query could be relevant to the
                              > "Mahanta" topic.
                              >
                              > Etznab
                              >
                              > prometheus wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello All,
                              > I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                              > Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:
                              >
                              > Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated
                              >
                              > In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                              > condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                              > delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                              > 1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                              > true."
                              >
                              > ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                              > Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                              > In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                              > January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                              > see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                              > the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                              > "The Wisdom Notes."
                              >
                              > Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                              > Twitchell stole even the name from another
                              > spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                              > in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                              > was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                              > of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                              > form This was easy to accept, for most people
                              > believe in some universal force whether called
                              > "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                              > associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                              > and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                              > of two words, he was able to transform himself
                              > into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                              > meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                              > "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                              > and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                              > by making it part of "every word, thought and
                              > action" of his followers."
                              >
                              > ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                              > be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                              > in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                              > Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                              > Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                              > in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                              > create this term/position for himself until 1969.
                              >
                              > BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                              > by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                              > Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                              > used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                              > (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                              > that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                              > was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.
                              >
                              > The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                              > on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                              > Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                              > This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                              > to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                              > up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                              > reproach and regain control as the highest of
                              > all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                              > title and definition.
                              >
                              > Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                              > for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                              > on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                              > 12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                              > states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                              > Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                              > need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                              > on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                              > for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                              > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                              > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                              > Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                              > straight!
                              >
                              > Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                              > Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                              > by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                              > Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                              > page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                              > was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                              > interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                              > had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                              > talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                              > Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                              > that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                              > 970th LEM, was from.
                              >
                              > I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                              > wanted to present more details than what
                              > were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                              > for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                              > Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                              > up for him, as well as, creating his own
                              > newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                              > and distortions.
                              >
                              > There's one more thing that I wanted to
                              > mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                              > Christians believe that Jesus will come
                              > again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                              > believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                              > Freedom via God-Realization in this
                              > lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!
                              >
                              > Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                              > will deny this, but they share the same
                              > Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                              > Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                              > switch and made Adam into Adom and
                              > Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                              > for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                              > Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                              > where ECKists have made fun of the
                              > Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                              > would seem that they are laughing
                              > at themselves and don't realize it!
                              > How clueless! Then again, an inability
                              > to do critical thinking and Not being
                              > able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                              > still ECKists.
                              >
                              > Prometheus
                            • prometheus_973
                              Twitchell s manuscript was a work in progress with rewrites and tweaking during his time (1955-65) spent with his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh. Klemp even
                              Message 14 of 15 , Mar 7, 2010
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                                Twitchell's manuscript was a work
                                in progress with rewrites and tweaking
                                during his time (1955-65) spent with
                                his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh.

                                Klemp even mentions Kirpal on
                                Eckankar.org and his involvement
                                with The Tiger's Fang manuscript
                                not long before it was published.
                                Read the two sections titled "Struggle
                                for Mastership" and "Beginnings
                                of Eckankar" listed below.

                                http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

                                Interesting too that Klemp mentions
                                Kirpal Singh by name 15 times during
                                this "Behind the Scenes with Paul Twitchell"
                                while only mentioning former 970th LEM
                                Sudar Singh's name 6 times! Count and see!

                                Here, in Chapter 8, Twitchell has Sugmad
                                speaking to him and Kirpal (Rebazar). This
                                is just one of the problems that Kirpal had
                                with this manuscript. Anyway, here are some
                                quotes:

                                Sugmad:

                                "You are also God! You are myself! I!

                                1) "My First Principle is that this true cosmos IS!

                                2) "My Second Principle is that there is no
                                God but me, I; not me as you know, but
                                that which is within you, the Self. Therefore
                                all is God, include the lowest of life.

                                3) "My Third Principle is that to have divinity,
                                you must dwell in the center of my Light
                                and Sound; and since Light is God, and God
                                is Light then IT is everywhere, and has No
                                Focus except in each Soul. Thus I must dwell
                                in the Light within Me!

                                4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth is
                                greater than the Lie, and truth is never greater
                                than No truth, for the latter is the shining ideal
                                which God holds before the Soul in his true kingdom!

                                ***
                                It seems to me that Paul, at first, was wanting
                                to share some of his views and to become a
                                real writer with a book. Gail talked him into
                                making it into a religion when interest picked
                                up at his book promotions and people started
                                to look to Twit as their modern day saviour/prophet!
                                Klemp merely positioned himself at the ESC
                                and inherited the LEM title as Darwin's writer.

                                Prometheus



                                Hello Etznab and All,
                                I started another thread for this discussion.
                                Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                                1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                                until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                                up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                                that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                                Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                                and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                                Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                                one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                                editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                                fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                                delude its followers.

                                Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                                Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                                of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                                all of those secret teachings and when he made
                                PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                                mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                                one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                                Four More Years that this information (if we
                                believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                                Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                                the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                                it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                                the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                                the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                                are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                                some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                                gap, 1965-1969?

                                Prometheus


                                Hello Etznab,
                                It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                                Twitchell claims to have received the
                                Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                                he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                                have trouble remembering the details
                                of their lies. That's why Twit made
                                the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                                his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                                created or started the "outer church"
                                on this date. This way he'd remember
                                it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                                is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                                every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                                history, on this date... his birthday!

                                PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                                (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                                REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                                these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                                The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                                didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                                due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                                and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                                given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                                of God.

                                As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                                This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                                1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                                name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                                Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                                did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                                publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                                to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                                as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                                even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                                in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                                get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                                a past track record of lying has been verified
                                by Klemp.

                                The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                                but let's remember that Klemp states that
                                Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                                Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                                mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                                that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                                there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                                in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                                "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

                                If one has paid attention they will see that
                                Klemp has not only given new covers to
                                Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                                as well. Just look at the differences and
                                changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                                Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                                to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                                current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                                sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                                works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                                the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

                                Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                                ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                                included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                                these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                                How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                                of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

                                Prometheus




                                etznab wrote:

                                hat was interesting what you said about
                                "Mahanta".

                                Just the other day I was trying to remember
                                exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                                experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                                and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                                Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

                                Was that the date?

                                I assumed the writing about it would have to
                                be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                                for books after that date.

                                The Flute of God came out in installments
                                in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                                to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                                have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                                out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                                1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                                to Darwin Gross, I think.

                                1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                                (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                                took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                                mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                                various other forms of "Master".

                                All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                                In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

                                It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                                "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                                By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                                The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                                I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                                The Flute of God).

                                The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                                from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                                he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                                one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                                "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

                                The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                                "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

                                OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                                does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                                of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                                anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                                it at a seminar and it's on tape?

                                I'd like to find out when that experience was
                                mentioned and what was said about it to get
                                an idea about what "history" might exist.

                                Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                                I thought this query could be relevant to the
                                "Mahanta" topic.

                                Etznab

                                prometheus wrote:

                                Hello All,
                                I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                                Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

                                Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

                                In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                                condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                                delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                                1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                                true."

                                ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                                Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                                In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                                January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                                see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                                the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                                "The Wisdom Notes."

                                Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                                Twitchell stole even the name from another
                                spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                                in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                                was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                                of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                                form This was easy to accept, for most people
                                believe in some universal force whether called
                                "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                                associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                                and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                                of two words, he was able to transform himself
                                into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                                meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                                "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                                and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                                by making it part of "every word, thought and
                                action" of his followers."

                                ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                                be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                                in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                                Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                                Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                                in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                                create this term/position for himself until 1969.

                                BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                                by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                                Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                                used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                                (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                                that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                                was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

                                The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                                on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                                Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                                This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                                to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                                up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                                reproach and regain control as the highest of
                                all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                                title and definition.

                                Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                                for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                                on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                                12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                                states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                                Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                                need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                                on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                                for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                                of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                                is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                                Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                                straight!

                                Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                                Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                                by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                                Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                                page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                                was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                                interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                                had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                                talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                                Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                                that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                                970th LEM, was from.

                                I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                                wanted to present more details than what
                                were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                                for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                                Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                                up for him, as well as, creating his own
                                newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                                and distortions.

                                There's one more thing that I wanted to
                                mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                                Christians believe that Jesus will come
                                again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                                believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                                Freedom via God-Realization in this
                                lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!

                                Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                                will deny this, but they share the same
                                Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                                Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                                switch and made Adam into Adom and
                                Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                                for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                                Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                                where ECKists have made fun of the
                                Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                                would seem that they are laughing
                                at themselves and don't realize it!
                                How clueless! Then again, an inability
                                to do critical thinking and Not being
                                able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                                still ECKists.

                                Prometheus
                              • prometheus_973
                                Let s take another look at The Tiger s Fang which Eckankar continues to sell. In Chapter 8 the Four Principles of Sugmad were given to Paul and Rebazar
                                Message 15 of 15 , Mar 9, 2010
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                                  Let's take another look at "The
                                  Tiger's Fang" which Eckankar
                                  continues to sell.

                                  In Chapter 8 the Four Principles
                                  of Sugmad were given to Paul
                                  and Rebazar (Kirpal Singh) by
                                  Sugmad himself. Here's number Four:

                                  4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth
                                  is greater than the Lie,

                                  and truth is Never Greater than No truth,

                                  for the latter [no truth, the lie] is the
                                  shining ideal which God holds before
                                  the Soul in his true kingdom!"

                                  ME: So, Twit/Suggie is saying that
                                  "the Lie" (his no truth) is greater than
                                  the truth.

                                  And, "the Lie" (no truth) is greater than truth!

                                  However, he's saying that the latter (no truth)
                                  is the "shining ideal" - the Perfect Lie!

                                  Maybe the perfect lie is the shining ideal
                                  for a conman! Is this a Freudian slip by
                                  Twitchell? After all, Twitchell lied about
                                  everything in order to create Eckankar.

                                  When one looks at Twit's track record
                                  you can see that he's been lying, plagiarizing,
                                  and distorting the truth by "exaggerating,"
                                  and "twisting facts" for most of his life.
                                  At age 27 (1935) he was lying on a grand
                                  scale to get into Who's Who in Kentucky,
                                  and Klemp points that out! Paul lied about
                                  his age in order to attract Gail who was
                                  33 years younger, thus, everything PT wrote
                                  about age not mattering, Soul is ageless,
                                  or about one's right to privacy and that the
                                  government didn't need to know this info
                                  (birth records) were used to cover-up and
                                  distract people.

                                  I wonder what Gail and Patti thought
                                  about Paul's "Virgin Birth" and "Mahanta"
                                  story? They both went along with it didn't
                                  they! As I pointed out, just look in the
                                  index of the Shariyat One for, "Mahanta,
                                  birth of."

                                  Plus, let's not forget that trip to "Paris"
                                  where Paul (at age 15) stayed with his
                                  "step-sister" Kay-Dee and then met
                                  Sudar Singh and traveled to India with
                                  him where they, supposedly, stayed for
                                  one year! Paul claimed to have gotten
                                  the Second Initiation from Sudar while
                                  there.

                                  Marman has pointed out that this was
                                  Paris, Kentucky and Not Paris, France.
                                  Therefore, Paul and Kay-Dee could not
                                  have met Sudar Singh while there nor
                                  traveled to India. Thus, Paul never got
                                  the Second Initiation from Sudar as
                                  he claimed!

                                  Therefore, later, Sudar couldn't have
                                  handed Paul off to Rebazar where PT,
                                  supposedly, received his 3rd-7th
                                  initiations! Then, on his "second trip,"
                                  Paul claims to have received the 8th-
                                  12th from Rebazar. None of it happened
                                  since Sudar and Rebazar were fictitious
                                  characters... like in a novel! This is
                                  just one more reason why the "Difficulties
                                  of Becoming the LEM" (1971 tape
                                  transcriptions) was bought up and
                                  destroyed.

                                  So, I wonder why Marman hasn't
                                  pieced the puzzel together by now,
                                  or has he? Is Marman covering-up
                                  for Klemp? After all, if Twitchell never
                                  met Sudar in "Paris, France" then he
                                  didn't travel with him to India and
                                  didn't get the 2nd Initiation. Thus,
                                  PT didn't get handed over to Rebazar
                                  and never received the 12th Initiation
                                  and never became the 971st LEM/Mahanta!

                                  Therefore, Darwin's Initiations came
                                  from a poser, an impostor, with No
                                  Initiations coming from a "lineage
                                  of ECK Masters!" Thus, Klemp is a
                                  poser too! Those initiations Darwin
                                  gave Klemp are invalid. Rebazar does
                                  Not exist except in people's imaginations.
                                  It's all fabricated, it's a lie and Klemp,
                                  with Marman's help, is covering it up
                                  too!

                                  However, most religions are built
                                  upon lies and myth (distortions of
                                  fact and unscientific explanations
                                  of nature). Religions rely upon giving
                                  "spiritual answers" to questions about
                                  creation and life and death and the
                                  beyond. They give hope of another
                                  life after death, but there's a catch!

                                  One has to believe in their stories
                                  and follow their rules, laws, and
                                  guidelines and one has to bow down
                                  to the (RESA) Hierarchy. One has to
                                  hang onto and worship every word
                                  spoken by their God's representative
                                  on earth... the Godman (Klemp).

                                  I guess that HK rationalizes his
                                  lies by thinking that he's providing
                                  a service to lost Souls. If it wasn't
                                  for Eckankar these New Agers wouldn't
                                  have anything to believe in to give
                                  them hope.

                                  On the other hand, if it wasn't
                                  for Twitchell's Eckankar scam
                                  Klemp wouldn't have had
                                  such a good paying job with all
                                  of those perks. It's hard to say
                                  what he would be doing or where
                                  he'd be living if it wasn't for being
                                  promoted to LEM by Darwin. Chances
                                  are he'd still be a 7th, or maybe an
                                  8th initiate, and working at the ESC.
                                  He'd be writing EK brochures or books
                                  like Phil Morimitsu once wrote.

                                  BTW-What ever happened to those
                                  books? Klemp doesn't like the competition
                                  does he!

                                  prometheus



                                  ***********************************
                                  Twitchell's manuscript was a work
                                  in progress with rewrites and tweaking
                                  during his time (1955-65) spent with
                                  his Spiritual Master Kirpal Singh.

                                  Klemp even mentions Kirpal on
                                  Eckankar.org and his involvement
                                  with The Tiger's Fang manuscript
                                  not long before it was published.
                                  Read the two sections titled "Struggle
                                  for Mastership" and "Beginnings
                                  of Eckankar" listed below.

                                  http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

                                  Interesting too that Klemp mentions
                                  Kirpal Singh by name 15 times during
                                  this "Behind the Scenes with Paul Twitchell"
                                  while only mentioning former 970th LEM
                                  Sudar Singh's name 6 times! Count and see!

                                  Here, in Chapter 8, Twitchell has Sugmad
                                  speaking to him and Kirpal (Rebazar). This
                                  is just one of the problems that Kirpal had
                                  with this manuscript. Anyway, here are some
                                  quotes:

                                  Sugmad:

                                  "You are also God! You are myself! I!

                                  1) "My First Principle is that this true cosmos IS!

                                  2) "My Second Principle is that there is no
                                  God but me, I; not me as you know, but
                                  that which is within you, the Self. Therefore
                                  all is God, include the lowest of life.

                                  3) "My Third Principle is that to have divinity,
                                  you must dwell in the center of my Light
                                  and Sound; and since Light is God, and God
                                  is Light then IT is everywhere, and has No
                                  Focus except in each Soul. Thus I must dwell
                                  in the Light within Me!

                                  4) "My Fourth Principle is that No truth is
                                  greater than the Lie, and truth is never greater
                                  than No truth, for the latter is the shining ideal
                                  which God holds before the Soul in his true kingdom!

                                  ***
                                  It seems to me that Paul, at first, was wanting
                                  to share some of his views and to become a
                                  real writer with a book. Gail talked him into
                                  making it into a religion when interest picked
                                  up at his book promotions and people started
                                  to look to Twit as their modern day saviour/prophet!
                                  Klemp merely positioned himself at the ESC
                                  and inherited the LEM title as Darwin's writer.

                                  Prometheus



                                  Hello Etznab and All,
                                  I started another thread for this discussion.
                                  Paul never mentions the "Mahanta" in the
                                  1967 Copyright of The Tiger's Fang. It wasn't
                                  until two years later (1969) that PT dreamed
                                  up the Mahanta title and all of the "Puffery"
                                  that goes with it. PT merely describes Rebazar
                                  Tarzs, in Tiger's Fang, as a "Spiritual Traveler"
                                  and "Godman." Not until Twit created the
                                  Mahanta title for himself did Rebazar become
                                  one too! 20/20 hindsight, with rewrites,
                                  editing and omissions is how the Eckankar
                                  fraud, under Klemp's reign, continues to
                                  delude its followers.

                                  Really, one would think that when the fictitious
                                  Rebazar visited Twitchell and took him on all
                                  of those Inner Plane journeys and taught him
                                  all of those secret teachings and when he made
                                  PT the 971st LEM in 1965 that he would have
                                  mentioned the "Mahanta" Consciousness at
                                  one time or another! However, it wasn't for
                                  Four More Years that this information (if we
                                  believe the lie) becomes known to Twitchell!
                                  Hmmmmmm. Now why didn't Rebz mention
                                  the Mahanta Con to Twit sooner? Obviously
                                  it just took Twit this amount of time, and with
                                  the right circumstances, for him to figure out
                                  the Mahanta Con. It is a convenient lie. Or,
                                  are we being too logical I wonder? Isn't there
                                  some magical ekplanation for this 4 year
                                  gap, 1965-1969?

                                  Prometheus


                                  Hello Etznab,
                                  It's kind of a moot point as to "when"
                                  Twitchell claims to have received the
                                  Fake Rod of ECK Power... it was whenever
                                  he claimed (like Oct. 22,1965). Liars
                                  have trouble remembering the details
                                  of their lies. That's why Twit made
                                  the date of the LEM lie correspond to
                                  his birthday, Oct. 22. And, he officially
                                  created or started the "outer church"
                                  on this date. This way he'd remember
                                  it! What's even funnier, and more remarkable,
                                  is Paul wrote his dogma to show that
                                  every LEM receives the ROD, throughout
                                  history, on this date... his birthday!

                                  PT did promote "Flute" via installments
                                  (circa 1966) where he, also, used other,
                                  REAL, peoples' names and later substituted
                                  these with the names of fake "EK Masters."
                                  The book was Copyrighted in 1969, but
                                  didn't get into print until 1970 probably
                                  due to reediting. The Copyright of 1969,
                                  and the First Printing date of 1970 are
                                  given in my 6th, 1979 Printing of The Flute
                                  of God.

                                  As for his lie about the Mahanta Initiation?
                                  This idea had to occur just prior to Jan. 1,
                                  1969 since Twitchell didn't mention the
                                  name/word "Mahanta" in the Dec. 1, 1968
                                  Monthly Issue of The Wisdom Notes. Nor
                                  did PT mention the "Mahanta" in any other
                                  publication or Monthly Wisdom Note prior
                                  to Jan. 1, 1969. This is just using the facts,
                                  as well as, logic and common sense. Plus,
                                  even Klemp states that Twitchell was a lying
                                  in 1935, at age 27, when he was trying to
                                  get into Who's Who in Kentucky. Therefore,
                                  a past track record of lying has been verified
                                  by Klemp.

                                  The Tiger's Fang was Copyrighted in 1967,
                                  but let's remember that Klemp states that
                                  Kirpal Singh returned the manuscript to
                                  Paul circa June, 1966. Since "Mahanta" wasn't
                                  mentioned in 1968 we can only assume
                                  that it was not mentioned in 1967. However,
                                  there was a reediting of this book, by Klemp,
                                  in 1988 for a Second Printing. This is where
                                  "Mahanta" had to be inserted... by Klemp!

                                  If one has paid attention they will see that
                                  Klemp has not only given new covers to
                                  Paul's older works, but has done reediting
                                  as well. Just look at the differences and
                                  changes that Klemp made to Paul's Eckankar
                                  Dictionary! Compare HK's 1998 EK Lexicon
                                  to Paul's Dictionary. Now compare Klemp's
                                  current Lexicon to his 1998 Lexicon. It's
                                  sad that Klemp has been reediting Twitchell's
                                  works, but he can do this because Gail sold
                                  the rights to Paul's works to Eckankar.

                                  Even though Gail got her 30 pieces of silver,
                                  ($500,000) there are many H.I.s, Marman
                                  included, that are still her friend. Then again,
                                  these ECK H.I.s are the friend of Patti as well.
                                  How's Klemp's editing and discontinuation
                                  of PT's writings working out for these old -timers?

                                  Prometheus




                                  etznab wrote:

                                  hat was interesting what you said about
                                  "Mahanta".

                                  Just the other day I was trying to remember
                                  exactly where Paul Twitchell describes HIS
                                  experience receiving the "Rod of Eck Power"
                                  and becoming the Mahanta, the Living Eck
                                  Master October 22nd, 1965. (was it?)

                                  Was that the date?

                                  I assumed the writing about it would have to
                                  be subsequent to October 1965. So I looked
                                  for books after that date.

                                  The Flute of God came out in installments
                                  in the Orion magazine in 1966 - and Intro.
                                  to Eckankar seems to be 1966, too (I don't
                                  have that last book.) The Tiger's Fang came
                                  out in 1967, but was reportedly written about
                                  1957 according to Doug and 1956 according
                                  to Darwin Gross, I think.

                                  1968 is when the Wisdom Notes come out
                                  (January). MSIA developed (The first seminar
                                  took place on May 4, 1968). The July W.N.
                                  mentions "ECK Master", I believe, and then
                                  various other forms of "Master".

                                  All About ECK, The Key to Eckankar and
                                  In My Soul I Am Free came out in 1968.

                                  It was the January 1969 W.N. that mentioned
                                  "Mahanta", if I remember correctly. Stranger
                                  By The River, The Flute of God and Eckankar,
                                  The Key to Secret Worlds came out in 1969,
                                  I believe. (That would be the edited version of
                                  The Flute of God).

                                  The Shariyats came out (or being "translated")
                                  from the 1970s and I believe Paul suggested
                                  he was going to explain the "Mahanta" there in
                                  one of them, at least. Or talk more about the
                                  "Mahanta, the Living Eck Master".

                                  The February 1970 Wisdom Note mentions
                                  "MAHANTA - the living ECK Master" I believe.

                                  OK. So where in all these books since 1965
                                  does Paul Twitchell write about his receiving
                                  of the "R.O.E.P." from Rebazar Tarzs? Does
                                  anybody remember? Maybe he talked about
                                  it at a seminar and it's on tape?

                                  I'd like to find out when that experience was
                                  mentioned and what was said about it to get
                                  an idea about what "history" might exist.

                                  Don't mean to change the thread subject, but
                                  I thought this query could be relevant to the
                                  "Mahanta" topic.

                                  Etznab

                                  prometheus wrote:

                                  Hello All,
                                  I just thought I'd point out a few thing that
                                  Ford overlooked. Here's what Ford said:

                                  Ford: "How the Myth of the Mahanta was Fabricated

                                  In spite of what is now known about Twitchell's
                                  condition of mythomania, Klemp continues to
                                  delude himself into believing that Twitchell's
                                  1965 creation of the Mahanta myth is actually
                                  true."

                                  ME: Actually, Twitchell created the Mahanta
                                  Myth around January 1969 and not in 1965.
                                  In "Paul Twitchell Presents, The Wisdom Notes,
                                  January 1968-October 1971" one can clearly
                                  see that Twitchell mentions the "Mahanta" for
                                  the very first time in this Jan. 1, 1969 Monthly
                                  "The Wisdom Notes."

                                  Ford: "Klemp seems oblivious to the fact that
                                  Twitchell stole even the name from another
                                  spiritual path. When it made its early appearance
                                  in his book The Flute of God (pp. 46, 55), it
                                  was merely a synonym for spirit and a state
                                  of consciousness like "love" or any other thought
                                  form This was easy to accept, for most people
                                  believe in some universal force whether called
                                  "spirit" or by some other name. Twitchell later
                                  associated the word "Mahanta" with the "man"
                                  and added it to his exalted title. With this verbalfusion
                                  of two words, he was able to transform himself
                                  into spirit itself ¾since spirit and Mahanta now
                                  meant the same thing. He then diffused the word
                                  "Mahanta" throughout the Eckankar teachings,
                                  and reinforced the Mahanta/Spirit connection
                                  by making it part of "every word, thought and
                                  action" of his followers."

                                  ME: The "Mahanta" (Consciousness) can, also,
                                  be found on page 39, as well as, pages 46 & 55
                                  in Twitchell's 1969 "The Flute of God." The term
                                  Mahanta was used only three times in this 1969
                                  Copyright. And, the 1st printing of this book was
                                  in 1970. This is more proof that Twitchell didn't
                                  create this term/position for himself until 1969.

                                  BTW-In mid to late 1968 Twitchell felt threatened
                                  by two internal conflicts. One was when 2nd
                                  Initiate John-Rogers (Hinkle) left Eckankar and
                                  used PT's discourses to start his own religion/path
                                  (MSIA). Also, after this, Twitchell added the caution
                                  that sharing one's discourses was not permitted and
                                  was a violation of spiritual law among other threats.

                                  The second thing was that Paul began to renege
                                  on his 5 year plan to step down as LEM since
                                  Eckankar, now, began to do well and make money.
                                  This caused many of his H.I.s (in-line to take over)
                                  to become very upset. Thus, Paul had to come
                                  up with a plan and a title to make himself beyond
                                  reproach and regain control as the highest of
                                  all Masters. Therefore, Twit created the Mahanta
                                  title and definition.

                                  Plus, PT added two more initiations levels (14)
                                  for himself. However, the "Worlds of ECK" Chart,
                                  on page 232, of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon shows
                                  12 Planes and Initiation Levels. The highest (12th)
                                  states: "SUGMAD (God) Ocean of Love and Mercy."
                                  Apparently neither Twitchell or Klemp felt the
                                  need to "correct" the chart. Interesting, too, that
                                  on page 9 of Klemp's 1998 ECK Lexicon the definition
                                  for "ANAMI LOK" states that this is "the world
                                  of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad... the word
                                  is HU; the TENTH Plane; the Nameless Plane."
                                  Twitchell always had trouble keeping his lies
                                  straight!

                                  Originally, the term Mahanta meant "Monastery
                                  Head." This term can be found in "The Holy Science"
                                  by Swami Sri Yukteswar (1855-1936), Seventh
                                  Edition 1972, Third Printing 1977, in the Introduction,
                                  page vi, footnoted at the bottom. Sri Yukteswar
                                  was Sri Yogananda's master. BTW- This is an
                                  interesting book and I'm fairly certain that Twitchell
                                  had speed read and "compiled" it too! Sri Yukteswar
                                  talks about Allahabad, the Kumbha Mela, the
                                  Yugas, etc., and this is a location (Allahabad)
                                  that Twitchell claims that Sudar (Kirpal) Singh,
                                  970th LEM, was from.

                                  I do agree with what Ford has stated. I just
                                  wanted to present more details than what
                                  were first gathered. It's a big job digging
                                  for and sorting out facts (the Truth) when
                                  Twit was such a liar and Klemp is covering
                                  up for him, as well as, creating his own
                                  newer version of Eckankar with more lies
                                  and distortions.

                                  There's one more thing that I wanted to
                                  mention. Isn't it interesting about Beliefs.
                                  Christians believe that Jesus will come
                                  again in their/this lifetime, and ECKists
                                  believe that they will achieve Spiritual
                                  Freedom via God-Realization in this
                                  lifetime. Religion is all about mass delusion!


                                  Okay, one more thing. Most ECKists
                                  will deny this, but they share the same
                                  Garden of Eden Myth with Christians!
                                  Twitchell just did his usual letter/word
                                  switch and made Adam into Adom and
                                  Eve into Ede. Just look at the definition
                                  for "Polarians" in Klemp's 1998 ECK
                                  Lexicon. Yet, I've seen on HU Chat
                                  where ECKists have made fun of the
                                  Christian Garden of Eden Myth! It
                                  would seem that they are laughing
                                  at themselves and don't realize it!
                                  How clueless! Then again, an inability
                                  to do critical thinking and Not being
                                  able to connect-the-dots is why they're
                                  still ECKists.

                                  Prometheus
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