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Klemp Equates "Love" to People, Animals, Places, and Things!

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  • prometheus_973
    I just reread what Klemp said in his seminar/video, Eckankar - What s it Really About, and it gave me some new insights into the mind of the Klempster.
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 22, 2010
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      I just reread what Klemp said in
      his seminar/video, "Eckankar -
      What's it Really About," and it
      gave me some new insights
      into the mind of the Klempster.
      Actually, in many ways, it reconfirms
      my opinion that Klemp is harboring
      past anger and resentments.

      Let's face it, HK's still a social
      misfit and a recluse, due to his
      arrested development and other
      mental aberrations Klemp never
      learned how to love!

      One has to experience human love
      before they can experience the
      Selflessness and Divine Love.

      Instead, Klemp teaches denial via
      detachment. With the removal of
      feelings one cannot experience the
      warmth and depth of true love. Love
      for an individual or humanity is lacking.
      Thus, one cannot acquire the Knowledge
      of Divine Love.

      It begins with loving oneself, but not
      too much, as is the case with a narcissist
      like Klemp. It appears to me that Klemp
      is incapable of having empathy! Thus,
      he hasn't been able to actually "love"
      others. Sure, he can use or say the words,
      but that just takes practice... it's a con.
      And, words have two meanings, or more,
      which works to his advantage!

      Anyway here's the quote:

      HK: "BUT remember, you are made in God's
      image. So is your neighbor. And so am I. And
      so the respect that you would give to the one
      you most love. And when I say the one you most
      love, it can be a person, animal, place or thing.
      Whoever you give the most love to, if you can
      have that same love for yourself. Then you are
      recognizing yourself as this holy, divine light of
      God, that you are. That's what the path of ECK
      is about."

      As I stated before, where is the "love" and
      "respect," or forgiveness, for Darwin? Where's
      the empathy? Talk is cheap for Klemp! It's
      misdirection too!

      But, what caught my attention, the second
      time around, was this:

      "And when I say the one you most love,
      it can be a person, animal, place or thing."

      Klemp is equating the same "love" that
      you would give or feel towards a "person"
      (i.e. a wife, husband, mother, father, son,
      daughter, grandchildren, etc.) as being the
      SAME that you would give/have: for a rat,
      "animal;" Starbucks, "place;" "or a thing"
      (fill-in the blank).

      This isn't taking his words out-of-context!
      Did Klemp misspeak? Did he really mean
      this or should we second-guess him as
      ECKists tend to do so often? Really, is this
      what he meant? Let's take it at face value
      and say that, in this case, he meant what
      he said.

      Maybe it's no wonder, then, that Klemp
      didn't attend his father's funeral in October,
      1971. Instead HK attended Darwin's coronation
      as LEM and stated, about the funeral, "Let
      the dead bury the dead." And, then, many
      initiations and years later (about 37 years)
      Klemp still can't mention Darwin's death in
      March, 2008 or say anything nice about him.
      Perhaps Klemp is telling ECKists to do the
      same, at his death, with him and his works!

      Still, what about love? It's no wonder that
      ECKists have such a distorted and narrow
      minded view of love considering Klemp's
      negative and inept example. This is what
      ECKists are learning to emulate and place
      into their "spiritual tool boxes!"

      Prometheus


      Prometheus wrote:
      Hello All,
      The point I was trying to make is that
      when one joins a religion he/she gives
      up being on an individual "path." For
      everybody to have their own "Eckankar"
      is to live in denial and with delusion!
      Religion is a group situation or "Road."
      It's not unique or individual, nor is it
      a "path!"

      When one agrees to become a member
      of a Religion they usually don't realize
      that they're also agreeing to follow
      hidden or unknown mandatory requirements.
      Usually these are presented to the
      follower in increments until they are
      fully indoctrinated, within the Hierarchy,
      with the group consciousness and the
      group rules, expectations, etc.

      Also, all religions require their members
      (clergy included) to behave and respond
      in a certain manner. They are like robots
      and can be programmed and reprogrammed
      to fit the need or situation!

      EK Members are to look to, follow, dream
      of and even emulate the leader in everything
      they do. This is to be the followers' primary
      focus. Remember, Klemp is the LEM and
      14th Plane Mahanta. Both of Klemp's
      Outer and Inner positions (according to
      his Autobiography, pg. 385) are higher
      than the 2nd or 4th Plane "GOD" (KAL, i.e.
      Satan, Devil) that all of the other religions
      in the world worship!

      Religions, Eckankar included, have dogma
      consisting of laws, rules (spoken and unspoken),
      guidelines and procedures, training requirements,
      policies, and expected/acceptable behaviours.
      And, all use fear and other intimidation tactics
      on their followers. Thus, Silence or else all future
      initiations will be withheld. Most H.I.s know
      this and that there is no real discussion or
      other P.O.V.s accepted. Hierarchy means that
      there is NO individualism and democracy.
      Klemp pointed this out in the mid-1980s
      when he created the RESA Hierarchy.

      Thus, the following HK quote is B.S. and
      double-talk:

      HK: "And this is what the path of ECK is all about.
      Walking the path to God. Even more, it's about
      walking your path to God. Because your path is
      not my path."

      ME: Correct! Klemp is the LEM/Mahanta who
      controls initiation levels and writes guidelines
      for members to follow. And, if you don't pay
      that annual membership money you can lose
      initiations and your level/plane of consciousness
      and your place in ECK the "Heavens."

      HK: "And my path is not yours. But that's
      OK."

      ME: Well, I'm not so sure that it's "OK."
      Most Eckists would like to be, at least,
      a 12th Initiate if not higher. Isn't that
      the goal... to become a 12th (ECK Master)
      because that equates to God-Realization!
      And, what ever happened to "In this
      lifetime" promise?

      HK: "Because when God made you, he made
      a unique being. You are Soul. You are Soul.
      That's the identity behind your name. Behind
      your physical form. Behind the ... of your face.
      You are made in God's image! And it's an image
      of Divine love."

      ME: Don't all religions say the same thing more
      or less? What's the catch? There has to be one
      for Soul to need Klemp. Is HK saying that Soul
      was made in his (HK's) image (God's)? Klemp
      didn't show anything close to Divine Love towards
      Darwin. Klemp still hasn't mentioned Darwin's
      death to the EK Membership let alone speak some
      kind words. What kind of "Divine Love" is this
      when one can't forgive another? See! Klemp's
      words are empty! He's a hypocrite and two faced!

      HK: "BUT remember, you are made in God's
      image. So is your neighbor. And so am I. And
      so the respect that you would give to the one
      you most love. And when I say the one you most
      love, it can be a person, animal, place or thing.
      Whoever you give the most love to, if you can
      have that same love for yourself. Then you are
      recognizing yourself as this holy, divine light of
      God, that you are. That's what the path of ECK
      is about."

      ME: Klemp must hate himself if he actually
      believes what he's said here! What about
      Service and Surrender? How does that work
      when you're just seeing yourself as "holy"
      and "Divine?"

      Plus, look at how Klemp disrespected Darwin
      Gross, the 972nd LEM and Mahanta (in training),
      who was the guy that initiated him as the
      LEM of Eckankar! It's amazing that Klemp
      has the nerve to say all of this with a straight
      face (except for his crooked "Dick Chaney"
      like smirks).

      I can, also, see why Klemp was laughing
      at all of the suckers in the audience who
      were mindlessly hanging onto his every
      word. Apparently they're both gullible and
      desperate enough to believe his Bull Sh_t
      and are incapable of connecting-the-dots
      with critical thinking, or by recalling Eckankar's
      history and those 10 missing years (1971-81)
      with all of those higher initiations given
      out to HK as well.

      If ECKists are the advanced Souls they
      imagine themselves to be, and as Klemp
      is telling them and their egos, then Why
      do they need Klemp and Eckankar?

      These Eckists (Souls) should just use
      Twitchell's two 40 year old Shariyats,
      as reference books, and proceed on
      their own private/personal unique "path"
      as Cliff Hanger Mahantas!

      Take what Klemp said at face value...
      literally! Of course, that's not what
      he really meant, or else there wouldn't
      be a Church and/or a Hierarchy. Thus,
      he was lying and using these words
      as a diversion as all religions do. In
      the retail world it's called Bait and
      Switch. Advertise one thing and sell
      something else! It happens everyday
      throughout the world.

      Everyone should BE their own Religion/
      Path! Pay yourself and donate to yourself!
      Serve and Surrender to Soul (yourself)
      not another fake "spiritual" know-it-all!
      All Religions are KAL "tests" for Soul!
      What does it take for ECKists (people)
      to see it? One can still have all, and more,
      that they promise by eliminating the
      middlemen! Middlemen were created
      by KAL

      Prometheus



      etznab wrote:
      >
      > Jonathan & All,
      >
      > I took the time to watch the YouTube video and are
      > really glad to have found the quote.
      >
      > In this post here, the section Jonathan illustrated
      > appears to be correct, and I want to thank others
      > who provided information about what book it app-
      > eared in. This way I can now record the time, the
      > place and the words that were spoken on the sub-
      > ject.
      >
      > The quote confirms to me something about the
      > saying "Everybody has their own Eckankar" and
      > how that might have developed. However, I'm not
      > so sure that the idea didn't already exist before
      > the seminar where Harold Klemp said [this was
      > based on my impression of the Y.T. video]:
      >
      > *******************************************************
      >
      > And this is what the path of ECK is all about.
      > Walking the path to God. Even more, it's about
      > walking your path to God. Because your path is
      > not my path. And my path is not yours. But that's
      > OK. Because when God made you, he made a
      > unique being. You are Soul. You are Soul. That's
      > the identity behind your name. Behind your physical
      > form. Behind the ... of your face. You are made in
      > God's image! And it's an image of Divine love. But
      > remember, you are made in God's image. So is
      > your neighbor. And so am I. And so the respect
      > that you would give to the one you most love. And
      > when I say the one you most love, it can be a
      > person, animal, place or thing. Whoever you give
      > the most love to, if you can have that same love
      > for yourself. Then you are recognizing yourself as
      > this holy, divine light of God, that you are. That's
      > what the path of ECK is about.
      >
      > *******************************************************
      >
      > I can see both the points made by Jonathan and
      > also by Prometheus. Thanks for sharing what you
      > did on this subject. And thank you Mish for the p.
      > numbers and the book.
      >
      > Etznab
      Jonathan wrote:
      > All,
      >
      > I am continuing the discussion which occurred in the following thread:
      >
      > Prometheus:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous/message/5210
      >
      > then my follow-up:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous/message/5211
      >
      > In that thread, I got into somewhat of a disagreement with Prometheus
      > because I said that I had no problem with what Klemp said in the
      > following video. I don't want people to get triggered by watching Klemp
      > so I will summarize the first part of the video.
      >
      > "ECKANKAR Religion: What's It Really About?"
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISUxkDbW-Q
      >
      > HK "And this is what the path of Eck is all about. Walking the path to
      > God. Even more, it's about walking YOUR path to God. Because your path
      > is not my path. And my path is not yours. But that's OK."
      >
      > What I said about Klemps words in this video was "I like what he said.
      > There's nothing wrong with it." I guess what I should have said was "On
      > the surface of things, Klemp's words seemed perfectly OK to me." Also,
      > no matter what I said or meant I didn't mean it as an endorsement of
      > Eckankar.
      >
      > Promethus pointed out, what Klemp says and what really happens in a
      > person's experience in Eckankar are two different things:
      >
      > Prometheus "There's a lot wrong with Klemp's
      > "message." It's deceitful and misleading!
      > It's misleading when HK states,
      > "My path isn't yours and yours isn't
      > mine." That's double-talk and is not
      > how Eckankar works! It's not what
      > the Eckankar church is all about and
      > it's not an individual's "path" nor is
      > it Klemp's! He was talking about a
      > "spiritual" path correct? It's Klemp's
      > con/job and that's not spiritual!"
      >
      > I then followed up Promethus' statement by pointing out that my own
      > experience in Eckankar was that
      >
      > Jonathan "When I was trying to follow my own path
      > while still a member of Eckankar, there were way to
      > many times that I was thinking to myself "Would
      > Eckankar approve of this?" or "Would Harold approve
      > ofthis?" So it is pretty difficult to truly follow your own
      > path when you are constantly thinking that."
      >
      > I would like to take this conversation in a different direction. I can
      > actually see why people join Eckankar based on what Klemp SAYS. And I
      > guess that many of the people who join will eventually realize that
      > their experience has turned out to be different than what Eckankar
      > seemed to imply that it would be. That's what happened to me, and that
      > is one of the reasons I quit Eckankar.
      >
      > Jonathan

      Prometheus wrote:

      Hello Jonathan,
      I guess that I was still having trouble
      with the statement that "there's nothing
      wrong with it" when you were referring
      to Klemp's "message" in the one video
      of his seminar comments, especially,
      when you, also, stated:

      "I agree with you on the 'My path isn't
      yours and yours isn't mine' statement.
      It should be true in Eckankar, but it
      really isn't." And, "Another issue that
      may be at work here is that while I was
      a member of Eckankar, I was so
      programmed and hypnotized to believe
      that everything Klemp said is true, I may
      still be under that spell! and even now
      I am unable to, in a sense, disagree with
      him..."


      I know that this issue is like beating
      a dead horse, but let's face it there's
      no way that I'm going to agree with
      a "no harm" approach to Klemp's
      hidden agenda and trickery. Just
      because kind and generic wording
      is spoken, softly, by a harmless looking
      skinny and geeky old preacher man
      doesn't mean that one should let their
      guard down. That's what he wants
      people to do! Klemp is as much,
      if not more so, of a Black Magician
      as he claimed Darwin to be! Some
      of your comments point this out.

      Thus, there really is something wrong
      with "it," and the other "stuff!" Actually,
      Klemp's trickery is one reason why
      there are things wrong with the other
      stuff, or things, that he has added.

      Then again, much of Eckankar's
      dogma came from other religions
      (Ruhani Satsang and Radhasoami)
      and these sources are flawed with
      myth and lies, as well, and are intended
      to be misleading and controlling too.

      Therefore, I'll always have a problem
      with someone saying that "there's
      nothing wrong" with Klemp's empty
      words and promises or that of any
      religion that claims to be the "highest."
      Just because HK gives comfort with
      positive, bias, and/or embellished
      "spiritual" stories (like other religions
      do) based upon delusional or magical
      thinking doesn't make it acceptable.
      Nor does using one's ego as a distraction
      from critical thinking by having EKists
      focus upon the means (membership
      money, training and service) of fulfilling
      their desires for more initiations make
      it right.

      Cont.

      > > Who was Klemp's audience when the
      > > "Eckankar - What's It All About?" talk
      > > was given? Was this at a seminar where
      > > all but 100 people were Eckists?
      > >
      > > It's important to know who the audience
      > > is when Klemp states, "My path isn't
      > > your path and your path isn't mine."
      > > Was this talk, originally, for chelas
      > > and H.I.s, as well as, 100 non-Eckists?
      > >
      > > What would Klemp mean if his talk
      > > was for both groups, Eckists and non-
      > > Eckists? Since the non-Eckists attending
      > > the seminar believe in either a 2nd or
      > > 4th Plane "God" (according to Klemp
      > > in his Autobiography, page 385) then
      > > I can see what Klemp's meaning was.
      > > His "path" is to con people into believing
      > > that he's 10 levels or Planes (as the 14th
      > > Plane Mahanta) above the "God" (of various
      > > names) that every other religion worships!
      > > Therefore, their "path" isn't his. That's
      > > logical.
      > >
      > > However, what does HK mean when
      > > he's speaking to Eckists and states,
      > > "My path isn't your path and yours isn't
      > > mine?"
      > >
      > > Is everyone via individual Karma and
      > > Grace on their own individual path and
      > > are, therefore, not connected to any
      > > specific path due to an unwritten Spiritual
      > > Law? If that's true then what's the purpose
      > > of Eckankar except to prevent people from
      > > following their own true private/individual
      > > path?
      > >
      > > It seems that Eckankar is just another
      > > myth/fiction based religion designed to
      > > confuse people, keep them off-balance,
      > > second-guessing and imagining whatever
      > > they want and/or need. Klemp will take
      > > credit for everything good while the bad
      > > is either "karma" (for lower initiates) or a
      > > "test" (for higher initiates). He also takes
      > > their money and time via "service" while
      > > giving them false hope, false beliefs and
      > > unfulfilled promises. Initiations are dangled
      > > over their heads with promises of higher
      > > levels of heaven. But the high initiation
      > > ranks also provide power and prestige
      > > for the meek and weak, and the bullies!
      > >
      > > By making EK initiations seem more special
      > > with ancient and invisible (living) masters
      > > that their previous religion lacked it becomes
      > > a more special and unique item to possess.
      > > Eckankar, also, has an Eastern religious
      > > bent with New Age philosophy (holistic/
      > > alternative medicine beliefs thrown into
      > > the mix) and this makes it enticing and
      > > comfortable to many who have, also,
      > > become disillusioned and mistrustful of
      > > orthodox medicine.

      More cont.

      > > Allow me to rant some-
      > > I don't quite agree with your comments
      > > in regard to Klemp's video message
      > > of "Eckankar- What's It All Really About"
      > > when you state, "I like what he said.
      > > There's nothing wrong with it."
      > >
      > > There's a lot wrong with Klemp's
      > > "message." It's deceitful and misleading!
      > > It's misleading when HK states,
      > > "My path isn't yours and yours isn't
      > > mine." That's double-talk and is not
      > > how Eckankar works! It's not what
      > > the Eckankar church is all about and
      > > it's not an individual's "path" nor is
      > > it Klemp's! He was talking about a
      > > "spiritual" path correct? It's Klemp's
      > > con/job and that's not spiritual!
      > >
      > > Or, if one would agree that it's all
      > > part of the Divine Plan to have religious
      > > traps like Eckankar and that it's a
      > > "test" for Soul then, in a sense, it is
      > > a lower "path" that Klemp is following.
      > > But, I don't think that Klemp wanted
      > > to be truthful with people. That's not
      > > how it would work it can't be too easy!
      > > The only question I have is whether
      > > or not Klemp knows that he's a KAL
      > > agent and is working with the lower
      > > (negative) forces of EK?
      > >
      > > Let's face it, Eckankar is Klemp's
      > > vocation and retirement plan that
      > > he inherited through his own manipulations
      > > and dirty tricks!
      > >
      > > That statement of HK's, "My path
      > > isn't yours and yours isn't mine"
      > > is to disarm people in order to
      > > build trust. It Does Not describe
      > > how Eckankar really works does it?
      > > Klemp's path or way (the low-way),
      > > however, is not the highway except
      > > for those who decide to leave the
      > > broken promises and trickery of
      > > yet another religion behind.
      > >
      > > Most former Eckists have chosen
      > > a Higher way! There is no individual
      > > path within Eckankar because everything
      > > is controlled by Klemp via his many
      > > guises/disguises. Eckankar is not
      > > a "path." It's a religion that has a lot
      > > of dirty laundry, rules (many hidden),
      > > laws, guidelines, dogma, and a hierarchy.
      > > A "path" doesn't have all of that crap
      > > littering the way. All of that religious
      > > clutter just causes people to trip and
      > > fall more easily.

      Cont.

      > > > IMO, The "Golden-Tongued Wisdom,"
      > > > test, heard in this KERNWATCH Mass
      > > > Marketing video was placed there by
      > > > Divine Spirit (versus Klemp's, lower,
      > > > KAL version of ECK). It's obvious, to
      > > > me, that this other video was subconsciously
      > > > and/or divinely placed on YouTube,
      > > > along with Klemp's videos, by this ESC
      > > > staffer. This is a "Waking Dream" alert
      > > > for all ECKists to notice and understand.
      > > >
      1. Frank Kern Mass Control Marketing - KERNWATCH
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFxGYFAU7KA
      > > >
      > > > I watched parts of Klemp's videos and it's
      > > > interesting seeing the way he purses his
      > > > lips before sounding the word. And he
      > > > intentionally speaks very softly and in a
      > > > hypnotic manner to his tired audience.
      > > > It's no wonder he puts so many people
      > > > to sleep or in a trance state, but maybe
      > > > that's his plan. I noticed, too, that Klemp
      > > > seemed to look constipated as he was
      > > > trying to get his words out.
      > > >
      > > > In the video titled, "What's It Really About?"
      > > > Klemp states, "My path isn't yours and yours
      > > > isn't mine" and then he gives a little smirk
      > > > like smile as though he was congratulating
      > > > himself for his double-speak. GW did the
      > > > same! Klemp's talks always leaves them
      > > > second guessing and confused as to what
      > > > he actually said. Thus, comes the use of the
      > > > Eckists' imaginations and dreams to make
      > > > sense of it all... except it might not be right
      > > > even if you use a "charged word" and HU first!
      > > > Thus, EKists needs to have verification via
      > > > a snail-mail response from Klemp. Inner
      > > > verification cannot be verified on the outer!
      > > > Catch-22!
      > > >
      > > > BTW, I also noticed that Klemp tends to close
      > > > his eyes a lot. Isn't that a sign that indicates
      > > > a person is lying? I think so!
      > > >
      > > > I think the "What's It Really About?" video,
      > > > that I mentioned above, is on this site:
      > > >
      http://www.youtube.com/user/EckankarOfficialSite
      > > >
      > > > Check out Rev. Harry for yourself.

      Prometheus
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