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Re: Video favorited on one of Eckankar's YouTube channels!!!

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Jonathan, I guess that I was still having trouble with the statement that there s nothing wrong with it when you were referring to Klemp s message in
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 18, 2010
      Hello Jonathan,
      I guess that I was still having trouble
      with the statement that "there's nothing
      wrong with it" when you were referring
      to Klemp's "message" in the one video
      of his seminar comments, especially,
      when you, also, stated:

      "I agree with you on the 'My path isn't
      yours and yours isn't mine' statement.
      It should be true in Eckankar, but it
      really isn't." And, "Another issue that
      may be at work here is that while I was
      a member of Eckankar, I was so
      programmed and hypnotized to believe
      that everything Klemp said is true, I may
      still be under that spell! and even now
      I am unable to, in a sense, disagree with
      him..."


      I know that this issue is like beating
      a dead horse, but let's face it there's
      no way that I'm going to agree with
      a "no harm" approach to Klemp's
      hidden agenda and trickery. Just
      because kind and generic wording
      is spoken, softly, by a harmless looking
      skinny and geeky old preacher man
      doesn't mean that one should let their
      guard down. That's what he wants
      people to do! Klemp is as much,
      if not more so, of a Black Magician
      as he claimed Darwin to be! Some
      of your comments point this out.

      Thus, there really is something wrong
      with "it," and the other "stuff!" Actually,
      Klemp's trickery is one reason why
      there are things wrong with the other
      stuff, or things, that he has added.

      Then again, much of Eckankar's
      dogma came from other religions
      (Ruhani Satsang and Radhasoami)
      and these sources are flawed with
      myth and lies, as well, and are intended
      to be misleading and controlling too.

      Therefore, I'll always have a problem
      with someone saying that "there's
      nothing wrong" with Klemp's empty
      words and promises or that of any
      religion that claims to be the "highest."
      Just because HK gives comfort with
      positive, bias, and/or embellished
      "spiritual" stories (like other religions
      do) based upon delusional or magical
      thinking doesn't make it acceptable.
      Nor does using one's ego as a distraction
      from critical thinking by having EKists
      focus upon the means (membership
      money, training and service) of fulfilling
      their desires for more initiations make
      it right.

      Prometheus

      jonathan wrote:
      >
      > Prometheus,
      >
      > This is what I said about Klemp's video:
      >
      > "As far as his message is concerned, I like what
      > he said. There's nothing wrong with it. It's all
      > the other "stuff" in Eckankar that bothers me. I
      > have already written a small book about it here
      > on ESA and over on ET so I won't repeat any of it."
      >
      > I was in the present and I was speaking about how his words affected me. Me, not you. Me, not everyone who was in the audience when he gave the talk. Klemp's path is different than mine. That's a fact. That's what I was saying.
      >
      > Jonathan
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Jonathan,
      > > Who was Klemp's audience when the
      > > "Eckankar - What's It All About?" talk
      > > was given? Was this at a seminar where
      > > all but 100 people were Eckists?
      > >
      > > It's important to know who the audience
      > > is when Klemp states, "My path isn't
      > > your path and your path isn't mine."
      > > Was this talk, originally, for chelas
      > > and H.I.s, as well as, 100 non-Eckists?
      > >
      > > What would Klemp mean if his talk
      > > was for both groups, Eckists and non-
      > > Eckists? Since the non-Eckists attending
      > > the seminar believe in either a 2nd or
      > > 4th Plane "God" (according to Klemp
      > > in his Autobiography, page 385) then
      > > I can see what Klemp's meaning was.
      > > His "path" is to con people into believing
      > > that he's 10 levels or Planes (as the 14th
      > > Plane Mahanta) above the "God" (of various
      > > names) that every other religion worships!
      > > Therefore, their "path" isn't his. That's
      > > logical.
      > >
      > > However, what does HK mean when
      > > he's speaking to Eckists and states,
      > > "My path isn't your path and yours isn't
      > > mine?"
      > >
      > > Is everyone via individual Karma and
      > > Grace on their own individual path and
      > > are, therefore, not connected to any
      > > specific path due to an unwritten Spiritual
      > > Law? If that's true then what's the purpose
      > > of Eckankar except to prevent people from
      > > following their own true private/individual
      > > path?
      > >
      > > It seems that Eckankar is just another
      > > myth/fiction based religion designed to
      > > confuse people, keep them off-balance,
      > > second-guessing and imagining whatever
      > > they want and/or need. Klemp will take
      > > credit for everything good while the bad
      > > is either "karma" (for lower initiates) or a
      > > "test" (for higher initiates). He also takes
      > > their money and time via "service" while
      > > giving them false hope, false beliefs and
      > > unfulfilled promises. Initiations are dangled
      > > over their heads with promises of higher
      > > levels of heaven. But the high initiation
      > > ranks also provide power and prestige
      > > for the meek and weak, and the bullies!
      > >
      > > By making EK initiations seem more special
      > > with ancient and invisible (living) masters
      > > that their previous religion lacked it becomes
      > > a more special and unique item to possess.
      > > Eckankar, also, has an Eastern religious
      > > bent with New Age philosophy (holistic/
      > > alternative medicine beliefs thrown into
      > > the mix) and this makes it enticing and
      > > comfortable to many who have, also,
      > > become disillusioned and mistrustful of
      > > orthodox medicine.
      > >
      > > Later--
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > jonathan wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus,
      > > >
      > > I agree with you on the "My path isn't yours and yours isn't
      > > mine" statement. It should be true in Eckankar, but it really isn't.
      > > >
      > > > Or maybe I should state it this way. When I was trying to follow
      > > my own path while still a member of Eckankar, there were way to
      > > many times that I was thinking to myself "Would Eckankar approve
      > > of this?" or "Would Harold approve of this?" So it is pretty difficult
      > > to truly follow your own path when you are constantly thinking that.
      > > And I'm not saying that I was always thinking these thoughts consciously,
      > > but they were always there, holding me back. And, subconscious thought
      > > patterns that are controlling you and limiting you are much more dangerous
      > > than the conscious ones.
      > > >
      > > > Another issue that may be at work here is that while I was a member of Eckankar, I was so programmed and hypnotized to believe that everything Klemp said is true, I may still be under that spell! and even now I am unable to, in a sense, disagree with him when I am watching a video of him. It's an interesting thing to ponder. But I'm not worried, he definitely had no effect in convincing me that I should ever go back to Eckankar.
      > > >
      > > > Jonathan
      > >
      > > Prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Jonathan,
      > > Allow me to rant some-
      > > I don't quite agree with your comments
      > > in regard to Klemp's video message
      > > of "Eckankar- What's It All Really About"
      > > when you state, "I like what he said.
      > > There's nothing wrong with it."
      > >
      > > There's a lot wrong with Klemp's
      > > "message." It's deceitful and misleading!
      > > It's misleading when HK states,
      > > "My path isn't yours and yours isn't
      > > mine." That's double-talk and is not
      > > how Eckankar works! It's not what
      > > the Eckankar church is all about and
      > > it's not an individual's "path" nor is
      > > it Klemp's! He was talking about a
      > > "spiritual" path correct? It's Klemp's
      > > con/job and that's not spiritual!
      > >
      > > Or, if one would agree that it's all
      > > part of the Divine Plan to have religious
      > > traps like Eckankar and that it's a
      > > "test" for Soul then, in a sense, it is
      > > a lower "path" that Klemp is following.
      > > But, I don't think that Klemp wanted
      > > to be truthful with people. That's not
      > > how it would work it can't be too easy!
      > > The only question I have is whether
      > > or not Klemp knows that he's a KAL
      > > agent and is working with the lower
      > > (negative) forces of EK?
      > >
      > > Let's face it, Eckankar is Klemp's
      > > vocation and retirement plan that
      > > he inherited through his own manipulations
      > > and dirty tricks!
      > >
      > > That statement of HK's, "My path
      > > isn't yours and yours isn't mine"
      > > is to disarm people in order to
      > > build trust. It Does Not describe
      > > how Eckankar really works does it?
      > > Klemp's path or way (the low-way),
      > > however, is not the highway except
      > > for those who decide to leave the
      > > broken promises and trickery of
      > > yet another religion behind.
      > >
      > > Most former Eckists have chosen
      > > a Higher way! There is no individual
      > > path within Eckankar because everything
      > > is controlled by Klemp via his many
      > > guises/disguises. Eckankar is not
      > > a "path." It's a religion that has a lot
      > > of dirty laundry, rules (many hidden),
      > > laws, guidelines, dogma, and a hierarchy.
      > > A "path" doesn't have all of that crap
      > > littering the way. All of that religious
      > > clutter just causes people to trip and
      > > fall more easily.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > jonathan wrote:
      > >
      > > Prometheus,
      > >
      > > It's funny that you mention the smirk. Completely unrelated to my recent
      > > adventures on YouTube today and yesterday, I went on YouTube about three days
      > > ago and did a search for "Eckankar." The second video that appears on the
      > > resulting search list is called "ECKANKAR Religion: What's It Really About?"
      > >
      > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISUxkDbW-Q
      > >
      > > I watched the entire video, and I noticed the smirk that you just spoke about.
      > > He does it numerous times, and it is so obvious. I'm wondering why I never
      > > noticed that when I was a Eckist, but I now realize, perhaps it is because I
      > > never actually watched a lot of his videos.
      > >
      > > I just forced myself to watch the whole thing again, and I noted the time on the
      > > video for every smirk. Some are faint, but they are there. He seems to do it
      > > right after he completes a sentence.
      > >
      > > 0:08
      > > 0:18
      > > 0:28
      > > 0:30
      > > 0:42
      > > 1:01
      > > 1:05
      > > 1:12
      > > 1:15
      > > 1:35
      > > 1:37
      > > 1:41
      > > 1:43 (This was an actual smile)
      > >
      > > And I'd like to clarify one thing. Like you Priometheus, when I watched this
      > > video, I saw it as a smirk, not a natural smile. I don't even know what to say
      > > about this, although It almost seems as if somebody told him to stop smiling so
      > > much, and he is holding smiles back. It's weird.
      > >
      > >
      > > ***As far as his message is concerned,
      > > I like what he said. There's nothing wrong
      > > with it.
      > >
      > >
      > > It's all the other "stuff" in Eckankar that bothers me. I have already
      > > written a small book about it here on ESA and over on ET so I won't repeat any
      > > of it.
      > >
      > > I forgot the summary for the video. In a 2:11 video there were 12 smirks and one
      > > real smile. My God!!! This is a waking dream. 12 + 1 = 13. Oh well, that's how I
      > > always thought when I was in Eckankar. I'm trying to avoid that now.
      > >
      > > Jonathan
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello Jonathan and All,
      > > > IMO, The "Golden-Tongued Wisdom,"
      > > > test, heard in this KERNWATCH Mass
      > > > Marketing video was placed there by
      > > > Divine Spirit (versus Klemp's, lower,
      > > > KAL version of ECK). It's obvious, to
      > > > me, that this other video was subconsciously
      > > > and/or divinely placed on YouTube,
      > > > along with Klemp's videos, by this ESC
      > > > staffer. This is a "Waking Dream" alert
      > > > for all ECKists to notice and understand.
      > > >
      > > > 1. Frank Kern Mass Control Marketing - KERNWATCH
      > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFxGYFAU7KA
      > > >
      > > > I watched parts of Klemp's videos and it's
      > > > interesting seeing the way he purses his
      > > > lips before sounding the word. And he
      > > > intentionally speaks very softly and in a
      > > > hypnotic manner to his tired audience.
      > > > It's no wonder he puts so many people
      > > > to sleep or in a trance state, but maybe
      > > > that's his plan. I noticed, too, that Klemp
      > > > seemed to look constipated as he was
      > > > trying to get his words out.
      > > >
      > > > In the video titled, "What's It Really About?"
      > > > Klemp states, "My path isn't yours and yours
      > > > isn't mine" and then he gives a little smirk
      > > > like smile as though he was congratulating
      > > > himself for his double-speak. GW did the
      > > > same! Klemp's talks always leaves them
      > > > second guessing and confused as to what
      > > > he actually said. Thus, comes the use of the
      > > > Eckists' imaginations and dreams to make
      > > > sense of it all... except it might not be right
      > > > even if you use a "charged word" and HU first!
      > > > Thus, EKists needs to have verification via
      > > > a snail-mail response from Klemp. Inner
      > > > verification cannot be verified on the outer!
      > > > Catch-22!
      > > >
      > > > BTW, I also noticed that Klemp tends to close
      > > > his eyes a lot. Isn't that a sign that indicates
      > > > a person is lying? I think so!
      > > >
      > > > I think the "What's It Really About?" video,
      > > > that I mentioned above, is on this site:
      > > >
      > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/EckankarOfficialSite
      > > >
      > > > Check out Rev. Harry for yourself.
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > > > Jonathan wrote:
      > > >
      > > > All,
      > > >
      > > > I decided to look for every YouTube channel that Eckankar has created. I found
      > > > six of them. By itself, that is not really suspicious that they have six of
      > > > them. The six channels are:
      > > >
      > > > 1 of 6
      > > > Channel: EckankarOfficialSite (12 videos uploaded, no Favorites)
      > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/EckankarOfficialSite
      > > > Profile
      > > > Channel Views: 18,846
      > > > Total Upload Views: 75,548
      > > > Joined: July 17, 2007
      > > > Last Sign In: 2 weeks ago
      > > > Subscribers: 494
      > > > Friends: 64
      > > > Website: http://www.Eckankar.org
      > > >
      > > > 2 of 6
      > > > Channel: spiritualtruthseeker (17 videos uploaded, no Favorites)
      > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/spiritualtruthseeker
      > > > Profile
      > > > Name: Mark
      > > > Channel Views: 6,604
      > > > Total Upload Views: 161,972
      > > > Joined: January 25, 2007
      > > > Last Sign In: 1 week ago
      > > > Hometown: Chanhassen
      > > > Subscriptions: 2 (EckankarOfficialSite & TheSecretToGodsLove)
      > > >
      > > > 3 of 6
      > > > Channel: TheSecretToGodsLove (0 videos uploaded, no Favorites)
      > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSecretToGodsLove
      > > > Profile
      > > > Channel Views: 756
      > > > Total Upload Views: 11,071
      > > > Joined: August 19, 2007
      > > > Last Sign In: 1 year ago
      > > > Subscribers: 32
      > > > Website: http://www.Eckankar.org
      > > >
      > > > 4 of 6
      > > > Channel: LoverOfGod9 (2 videos uploaded, no Favorites)
      > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/LoverOfGod9
      > > > Profile
      > > > Name: One who loves Soul
      > > > Channel Views: 1,577
      > > > Total Upload Views: 32,078
      > > > Joined: August 11, 2006
      > > > Last Sign In: 1 year ago
      > > > Subscribers: 53
      > > > Website: http://www.Eckankar.org
      > > >
      > > > 5 of 6
      > > > Channel: coworkerwithgod (5 videos uploaded, no Favorites)
      > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/coworkerwithgod
      > > > Profile
      > > > Channel Views: 1,658
      > > > Total Upload Views: 13,387
      > > > Age: 59
      > > > Joined: November 12, 2007
      > > > Website: http://www.ECKANKAR.org
      > > >
      > > > 6 of 6
      > > > Channel: SpiritualExperience (4 videos uploaded, 8 Favorites)
      > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/SpiritualExperience
      > > > Profile
      > > > Name: Spiritual
      > > > Channel Views: 1,779
      > > > Total Upload Views: 43,857
      > > > Joined: June 18, 2007
      > > > Last Sign In: 9 months ago
      > > > Subscribers: 62
      > > > Website: http://www.haveaspiritualexperience.org (This is obviously one of
      > > > Eckankar's websites)
      > > > Subscriptions: spiritualtruthseeker
      > > > "Have You Had A Spiritual Experience?
      > > > A dream with a departed love one?
      > > > An out-of-body or near death experience?
      > > > A Inner light or Inner Sound?
      > > > A Past Life or Reincarnation Experience?"
      > > >
      > > Note: They are trying to pass this one off as an individual's
      > > channel. But look at the videos that it has uploaded, this
      > > channel was obviously created by Eckankar itself:
      > > >
      > > > Uploads
      > > > 1. Eckankar explains Spiritual Experiences - 1,527 views - 1 year ago
      > > > 2. HU A Love Song to God - Eckankar Youth - 181 views - 2 years ago
      > > > 3. Out-of-body Experience with my deceased brother OBE Eckankar - 33,420 views
      > > -
      > > > 2 years ago
      > > > 4. Eckankar Presents: Have You Had A Spiritual Experience ? - 8,860 views - 2
      > > > years ago
      > > >
      > > > But the really interesting thing is the Favorites list. Look that the Favorite
      > > > at the top of the list!!!!!
      > > >
      > > > Favorites:
      > > > 1. Frank Kern Mass Control Marketing - KERNWATCH
      > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFxGYFAU7KA
      > > >
      > > > 2. Eckankar: The Sound From God Known As HU
      > > >
      > > > 3. Reincarnation Past Life Dream Interpretation via Eckankar
      > > >
      > > > 4. Eckankar Presents: Have You Had A Spiritual Experience ?
      > > >
      > > > 5. Eckankar - A Resource To Understand Near Death Experiences
      > > >
      > > > 6. The Secret of Dream Interpretation from Eckankar
      > > >
      > > > 7. Dream Interpretation & Dream Meaning Eckankar
      > > >
      > > > 8. ECKANKAR Religion: What's It Really About?
      > > >
      > > > So let me tell you what appears to be going on here.
      > > The YouTube channel called "SpiritualExperience" was
      > > created by an employee of Eckankar. They uploaded 4
      > > videos which were professionally created by Eckankar.
      > > The person who created this channel lists their website as
      > > >
      > > > http://www.haveaspiritualexperience.org
      > > >
      > > > This is obviously one of Eckankar's websites.
      > > >
      > > > The person who created this channel viewed 8 videos on YouTube which they then
      > > > "flagged: as a "Favorite." This means that people can go to their channel and
      > > > see the 8 videos that they flagged as a Favorite. The first video they flagged
      > > > is called:
      > > >
      > > > Frank Kern Mass Control Marketing - KERNWATCH
      > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFxGYFAU7KA
      > > >
      > > This video is a spoof/comedy that shows people how to make money on the
      > > Internet by getting stupid people to buy things.
      > > >
      > > Watch the video, and take note of the person being interviewed at the
      > > following two places:
      > > >
      > > 2:00 minutes
      > > "You see, ass... I mean mass control is about controlling
      > > your ass, I mean controlling your masses. Controlling masses."
      > > >
      > > 2:21 minutes
      > > "You want to make them do stuff, like buy stuff, like... You don't want, like,
      > > the lame dudes to... Actually, you do want all the lame dudes to buy stuff
      > > from you. Ya know, like stupid people. That's what mass control is about."
      > > >
      > > It's actually a spoof/comedy about how to control stupid people in order to
      > > get them to buy stuff on the Internet.
      > > >
      > > It appears to me that the employee of Eckankar who created this YouTube
      > > channel got bored and was watching "funny" videos. They meant to add it to their
      > > windows Favorites list, but instead added it to thier YouTube Favorites list.
      > > Apparently, they thought this was a funny video which reflected their attitude
      > > and/or Eckankar's attitude toward potential new converts to Eckankar.
      > > >
      > > The account has been inactive for 9 months meaning the person who as access to
      > > this YouTube channel had nine months to delete this spoof/comedy from their
      > > YouTube Favorites.
      > > >
      > > I'd like as many people as possible to confirm what I written here before
      > > Eckankar gets a chance to delete this spoof/comedy from this Favorites list.
      > > Or they could delete the entire channel.
      > > >
      > > > Thanks,
      > > >
      > > > Jonathan
      > > >
      > > > P.S. I am posting this entire message on all three message boards: ESA, ET,
      > > and
      > > > "X-Eckankar The-Chains-of-Eck."
      > > >
      > >
      >
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