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Re: exit interviews

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  • jonathanjohns96
    Zoey, First of all, phoning an ESA to inform them that you want to quit is a very bad idea because all you are doing is giving them an opening to convince you
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 15, 2010
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      Zoey,

      First of all, phoning an ESA to inform them that you want to quit is a very bad idea because all you are doing is giving them an opening to convince you that you shouldn't quit. Also, it almost sounds to me that she wants the ESA to support her decision. If a person is truly quitting Eckankar, you don't worry about what anyone in Eckankar thinks. It's your decision; it's your life. This may sound cold-hearted to some people, but it is the only way to deal with an organization which has been controlling your thinking, and indeed your whole life. It's your life now, and you can't allow Eckankar to continue running it.

      If a person wants to quit Eckankar, they should send a letter to the main office informing them of that, they will send you a letter back which asks you to sign a form verifying that you really want to quit. You sign that form, then send it back. Then Eckankar will send you a verification letter. Then contact the person running the Eck center to inform them that you have resigned from Eckankar. The preferred order is mail, email, then phone.

      If you are an initiator, ESA, or have keys to the Eck center, that naturally complicates things.

      I would not agree to an exit interview. It seems to me that it is just a guise for them to use subtle mind control techniques to convince you to not resign from Eckankar.

      Jonathan



      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@...> wrote:
      >
      > A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit eckankar. She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more.
      >
      > An hour later the RESA phoned her, and said he wanted to schedule an "exit interview". She thinks that is pretty common now.
      >
      > I never heard of it.
      >
      > zoey
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Jonathan, Zoey, and All, I see leaving Eckankar differently. IMO I wouldn t let the ESC or the local EK leadership know. I would STOP doing following:
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 16, 2010
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        Hello Jonathan, Zoey, and All,
        I see leaving Eckankar differently.
        IMO I wouldn't let the ESC or the
        local EK leadership know.

        I would STOP doing following:
        volunteering; going to the EK Center;
        attending meetings, classes, events;
        Renewing the Annual Membership.

        Sure, you will still get mailings and
        a notification that you have 5 years
        before your membership and initiations
        completely expire blah blah blah, but
        no Eckist should be contacting you
        to ask "why" or what's wrong? If so,
        they would be violating the Law of
        Noninterference.

        So, just fade away into the background.
        Unless you're a high profile EK leader
        nobody will notice or care. The RESAs
        haven't ever met, at least, half of those
        on the membership lists the ESC sends
        them for their areas.

        And, if any ECK friends ask you what's
        happening, or comment about not
        seeing you at the EK Center etc., then
        just say that you're taking a sabbatical,
        or a rest. Better yet, just say that you're
        doing a lot of work on the "Inner."

        Or, you could say you've joined the
        Contemplative Order (Holy Fire of ECK,
        Book 1). If they want to know more just
        say that this is a "private" matter between
        you and the Mahanta. And, if they "share"
        your comments with others and you get
        a phone call from the RESA police then
        you can accuse people of "gossiping"
        and refuse to discuss "unsolicited" and
        "private" spiritual matters.


        These suggestions allow one to avoid
        confrontation at a difficult time when
        one is breaking away from, yet, another
        manipulative religion. Some people
        don't need the "group" experience or
        the limiting and generic teachings
        directed at the masses and for the
        "group consciousness."

        All religions cater to the masses while
        attempting to control them. In many cases
        there are political overtones and connections
        with governmental protection and laws
        that protect the stronger and more powerful
        religions. This is why Eckankar is not a
        "spiritual path." It didn't start out as a
        religion

        But, in truth, all religions want everyone
        onboard with their beliefs (dogma) in order
        control those they have trapped with promises
        and hope in order to "save" the rest of the lost,
        misinformed, and ignorant populace (Souls).
        Of course, money and power (PR too) are factors
        that all religions use against one another...
        the competition.

        However, religion becomes unnecessary,
        especially, when one lives in a country
        with religious freedom. Even then, at times,
        one must fake it and go through the motions
        in order to maintain a job (like at the ESC)
        or family ties.

        After Eckankar and other religions--

        The best religion to follow is one's own!
        Design your own dogma! It's kind of like
        "Build a Bear." There are many (outer)
        shapes for you to choose from (not all
        are bears). All that is left for you to do
        is to add the (inner) stuffing and anything
        else (private and personal) you may want
        to add in order to make it unique and
        special for you! This was the "test" all
        along!

        Prometheus



        jonathan wrote:
        Zoey,

        First of all, phoning an ESA to inform them that you want to quit is a very bad
        idea because all you are doing is giving them an opening to convince you that
        you shouldn't quit. Also, it almost sounds to me that she wants the ESA to
        support her decision. If a person is truly quitting Eckankar, you don't worry
        about what anyone in Eckankar thinks. It's your decision; it's your life. This
        may sound cold-hearted to some people, but it is the only way to deal with an
        organization which has been controlling your thinking, and indeed your whole
        life. It's your life now, and you can't allow Eckankar to continue running it.

        If a person wants to quit Eckankar, they should send a letter to the main office
        informing them of that, they will send you a letter back which asks you to sign
        a form verifying that you really want to quit. You sign that form, then send it
        back. Then Eckankar will send you a verification letter. Then contact the person
        running the Eck center to inform them that you have resigned from Eckankar. The
        preferred order is mail, email, then phone.

        If you are an initiator, ESA, or have keys to the Eck center, that naturally
        complicates things.

        I would not agree to an exit interview. It seems to me that it is just a guise
        for them to use subtle mind control techniques to convince you to not resign
        from Eckankar.

        Jonathan
      • Zoey
        Thanks for this input, jonathan. Not knowing you, I will assume that you mean well. I will also assume that you have experience which dictates your views.
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 16, 2010
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          Thanks for this input, jonathan. Not knowing you, I will assume that you mean well. I will also assume that you have experience which dictates your views. This may be of some assistance to someone who is, currently, planning to leave eckankar.

          However, it can serve me very little, considering the fact that I left eckankar long ago. And it can hardly serve my friend, considering the fact that she already quit, as I mentioned.

          She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's approbation never entered the issue.

          Keep your day job, jonathan. You'll never make a living as a psychic.

          zoey



          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
          >
          > Zoey,
          >
          > First of all, phoning an ESA to inform them that you want to quit is a very bad idea because all you are doing is giving them an opening to convince you that you shouldn't quit. Also, it almost sounds to me that she wants the ESA to support her decision. If a person is truly quitting Eckankar, you don't worry about what anyone in Eckankar thinks. It's your decision; it's your life. This may sound cold-hearted to some people, but it is the only way to deal with an organization which has been controlling your thinking, and indeed your whole life. It's your life now, and you can't allow Eckankar to continue running it.
          >
          > If a person wants to quit Eckankar, they should send a letter to the main office informing them of that, they will send you a letter back which asks you to sign a form verifying that you really want to quit. You sign that form, then send it back. Then Eckankar will send you a verification letter. Then contact the person running the Eck center to inform them that you have resigned from Eckankar. The preferred order is mail, email, then phone.
          >
          > If you are an initiator, ESA, or have keys to the Eck center, that naturally complicates things.
          >
          > I would not agree to an exit interview. It seems to me that it is just a guise for them to use subtle mind control techniques to convince you to not resign from Eckankar.
          >
          > Jonathan
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
          > >
          > > A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit eckankar. She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more.
          > >
          > > An hour later the RESA phoned her, and said he wanted to schedule an "exit interview". She thinks that is pretty common now.
          > >
          > > I never heard of it.
          > >
          > > zoey
          > >
          >
        • jonathanjohns96
          Zoey, I m really confused by your initial post. First you say A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit Eckankar. Then you say She phoned an ESA
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 16, 2010
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            Zoey,

            I'm really confused by your initial post. First you say

            "A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit Eckankar."

            Then you say

            "She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more."

            I then stated that if your friend quit she should not be contacting Eckists to get some kind of approval from them. Where do I get the idea that she wanted approval? You specifically stated "She phoned an ESA she felt COMFORTABLE with." (my emphasis). So once again, if she quit, why is she contacting Eckankar at all? She should be getting on with her own life. And second question "Why is she specifically contacting an ESA that she feels COMFORTABLE with?" I don't get it. It sounds to me like she really hasn't quit Eckankar at all.

            You also said:

            "She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's approbation never entered the issue."

            Why would she even care what Eckankar thinks? Tell her to grow up. Or tell her to join a message board and speak out. She's clueless if she thinks that Eckankar really cares why she left. Not only that, it is none of their business if she already left.

            Also, you change your story again from your first post to your second post. In your first post, you say that in talking to the ESA "she briefly said that it [Eckankar] wasn't for her any more [sic]." Then in your second post you say that she "knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find." It seems like you changed your story because first you say that she told the ESA next to nothing, then you say that she wanted a loud-mouthed megaphone. "Why would she want a loud-mouthed megaphone if she told her next to nothing about why she left Eckankar? Again, the fact that she is telling her reasons (sob story) to a loud-mouthed megaphone Eckist is telling me that she wants attention or pity from Eckankar because she feels that they wronged her. Seeking attention from the entity that abused you is giving all of your power to them. Tell her that she is giving all of her power to Eckankar. She needs to consolidate her power within herself. And the best way to do that is simply to ignore Eckankar.

            And, Zoey, maybe if you would make a post containing more than three sentences, and explain exactly what happened, I would have a much easier time figuring out what you are talking about. And I would have an easier time making a sensible comment. And I wouldn't have to use my "psychic powers" to figure out what you are talking about.

            So now I am going to address everyone except you Zoey. If you are presently a member of Eckabkar, and are contemplating leaving Eckankar, just leave. Don't agree to any "exit interview" because you don't owe Eckankar anything. To give you an analogy, if you are in an abusive relationship and then you quit, then you're done. And its now time to take care of yourself, not be concerned about the other person, i.e., the abuser. If you are the person who can remain friends with people who you knew in Eckankar, then go ahead and do that. Otherwise, just move on.

            Jonathan


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks for this input, jonathan. Not knowing you, I will assume that you mean well. I will also assume that you have experience which dictates your views. This may be of some assistance to someone who is, currently, planning to leave eckankar.
            >
            > However, it can serve me very little, considering the fact that I left eckankar long ago. And it can hardly serve my friend, considering the fact that she already quit, as I mentioned.
            >
            > She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's approbation never entered the issue.
            >
            > Keep your day job, jonathan. You'll never make a living as a psychic.
            >
            > zoey
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Zoey,
            > >
            > > First of all, phoning an ESA to inform them that you want to quit is a very bad idea because all you are doing is giving them an opening to convince you that you shouldn't quit. Also, it almost sounds to me that she wants the ESA to support her decision. If a person is truly quitting Eckankar, you don't worry about what anyone in Eckankar thinks. It's your decision; it's your life. This may sound cold-hearted to some people, but it is the only way to deal with an organization which has been controlling your thinking, and indeed your whole life. It's your life now, and you can't allow Eckankar to continue running it.
            > >
            > > If a person wants to quit Eckankar, they should send a letter to the main office informing them of that, they will send you a letter back which asks you to sign a form verifying that you really want to quit. You sign that form, then send it back. Then Eckankar will send you a verification letter. Then contact the person running the Eck center to inform them that you have resigned from Eckankar. The preferred order is mail, email, then phone.
            > >
            > > If you are an initiator, ESA, or have keys to the Eck center, that naturally complicates things.
            > >
            > > I would not agree to an exit interview. It seems to me that it is just a guise for them to use subtle mind control techniques to convince you to not resign from Eckankar.
            > >
            > > Jonathan
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit eckankar. She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more.
            > > >
            > > > An hour later the RESA phoned her, and said he wanted to schedule an "exit interview". She thinks that is pretty common now.
            > > >
            > > > I never heard of it.
            > > >
            > > > zoey
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Zoey
            Did your tenure in eckankar teach you nothing, johnathan? Must each of us consult your protocol book prior to leaving the cult? My friend chose not to do a
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 16, 2010
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              Did your tenure in eckankar teach you nothing, johnathan? Must each of us consult your protocol book prior to leaving the cult?

              My friend chose not to do a 'disappearing act'. She chose to tell her eck clergy of choice her reasons for leaving. She had her reasons for choosing this particular ESA; namely, they were on friendly terms, and, she feels, he will tell the others.

              How do you presume to know her motives? Who are you to dictate how she handles her departure? Please.

              At any rate, my initial post invited comments concerning "exit interviews", which I have not heard of.

              zoey

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
              >
              > Zoey,
              >
              > I'm really confused by your initial post. First you say
              >
              > "A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit Eckankar."
              >
              > Then you say
              >
              > "She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more."
              >
              > I then stated that if your friend quit she should not be contacting Eckists to get some kind of approval from them. Where do I get the idea that she wanted approval? You specifically stated "She phoned an ESA she felt COMFORTABLE with." (my emphasis). So once again, if she quit, why is she contacting Eckankar at all? She should be getting on with her own life. And second question "Why is she specifically contacting an ESA that she feels COMFORTABLE with?" I don't get it. It sounds to me like she really hasn't quit Eckankar at all.
              >
              > You also said:
              >
              > "She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's approbation never entered the issue."
              >
              > Why would she even care what Eckankar thinks? Tell her to grow up. Or tell her to join a message board and speak out. She's clueless if she thinks that Eckankar really cares why she left. Not only that, it is none of their business if she already left.
              >
              > Also, you change your story again from your first post to your second post. In your first post, you say that in talking to the ESA "she briefly said that it [Eckankar] wasn't for her any more [sic]." Then in your second post you say that she "knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find." It seems like you changed your story because first you say that she told the ESA next to nothing, then you say that she wanted a loud-mouthed megaphone. "Why would she want a loud-mouthed megaphone if she told her next to nothing about why she left Eckankar? Again, the fact that she is telling her reasons (sob story) to a loud-mouthed megaphone Eckist is telling me that she wants attention or pity from Eckankar because she feels that they wronged her. Seeking attention from the entity that abused you is giving all of your power to them. Tell her that she is giving all of her power to Eckankar. She needs to consolidate her power within herself. And the best way to do that is simply to ignore Eckankar.
              >
              > And, Zoey, maybe if you would make a post containing more than three sentences, and explain exactly what happened, I would have a much easier time figuring out what you are talking about. And I would have an easier time making a sensible comment. And I wouldn't have to use my "psychic powers" to figure out what you are talking about.
              >
              > So now I am going to address everyone except you Zoey. If you are presently a member of Eckabkar, and are contemplating leaving Eckankar, just leave. Don't agree to any "exit interview" because you don't owe Eckankar anything. To give you an analogy, if you are in an abusive relationship and then you quit, then you're done. And its now time to take care of yourself, not be concerned about the other person, i.e., the abuser. If you are the person who can remain friends with people who you knew in Eckankar, then go ahead and do that. Otherwise, just move on.
              >
              > Jonathan
              >
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Thanks for this input, jonathan. Not knowing you, I will assume that you mean well. I will also assume that you have experience which dictates your views. This may be of some assistance to someone who is, currently, planning to leave eckankar.
              > >
              > > However, it can serve me very little, considering the fact that I left eckankar long ago. And it can hardly serve my friend, considering the fact that she already quit, as I mentioned.
              > >
              > > She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's approbation never entered the issue.
              > >
              > > Keep your day job, jonathan. You'll never make a living as a psychic.
              > >
              > > zoey
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Zoey,
              > > >
              > > > First of all, phoning an ESA to inform them that you want to quit is a very bad idea because all you are doing is giving them an opening to convince you that you shouldn't quit. Also, it almost sounds to me that she wants the ESA to support her decision. If a person is truly quitting Eckankar, you don't worry about what anyone in Eckankar thinks. It's your decision; it's your life. This may sound cold-hearted to some people, but it is the only way to deal with an organization which has been controlling your thinking, and indeed your whole life. It's your life now, and you can't allow Eckankar to continue running it.
              > > >
              > > > If a person wants to quit Eckankar, they should send a letter to the main office informing them of that, they will send you a letter back which asks you to sign a form verifying that you really want to quit. You sign that form, then send it back. Then Eckankar will send you a verification letter. Then contact the person running the Eck center to inform them that you have resigned from Eckankar. The preferred order is mail, email, then phone.
              > > >
              > > > If you are an initiator, ESA, or have keys to the Eck center, that naturally complicates things.
              > > >
              > > > I would not agree to an exit interview. It seems to me that it is just a guise for them to use subtle mind control techniques to convince you to not resign from Eckankar.
              > > >
              > > > Jonathan
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit eckankar. She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more.
              > > > >
              > > > > An hour later the RESA phoned her, and said he wanted to schedule an "exit interview". She thinks that is pretty common now.
              > > > >
              > > > > I never heard of it.
              > > > >
              > > > > zoey
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • mishmisha9
              I ve heard of exit interviews . . . they are done in professional businesses, so once again, I guess eckankar positions the org as one! LOL! Other than
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 16, 2010
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                I've heard of exit interviews . . . they are done in professional
                businesses, so once again, I guess eckankar positions the org
                as one! LOL!

                Other than returning keys or stuff that doesn't belong to you, I
                don't think a member leaving the org needs to do anything but
                walk out the door, burn the bridges behind him/her and just
                get on with life.

                When I left, I didn't consult or speak to anyone about it, and I
                ignored the letters I received from eckankar after my membership
                payments lapsed! Once I decided to leave, I was done and would
                not give them anymore of my time or spend any money on anything
                for them (stationary and postage)!

                But I also believe however one wants to withdraw is okay . . . the key
                is to get away from the cult . . . let it go!!

                Mish

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
                >
                > Zoey,
                >
                > First of all, phoning an ESA to inform them that you want to quit is a very bad idea because all you are doing is giving them an opening to convince you that you shouldn't quit. Also, it almost sounds to me that she wants the ESA to support her decision. If a person is truly quitting Eckankar, you don't worry about what anyone in Eckankar thinks. It's your decision; it's your life. This may sound cold-hearted to some people, but it is the only way to deal with an organization which has been controlling your thinking, and indeed your whole life. It's your life now, and you can't allow Eckankar to continue running it.
                >
                > If a person wants to quit Eckankar, they should send a letter to the main office informing them of that, they will send you a letter back which asks you to sign a form verifying that you really want to quit. You sign that form, then send it back. Then Eckankar will send you a verification letter. Then contact the person running the Eck center to inform them that you have resigned from Eckankar. The preferred order is mail, email, then phone.
                >
                > If you are an initiator, ESA, or have keys to the Eck center, that naturally complicates things.
                >
                > I would not agree to an exit interview. It seems to me that it is just a guise for them to use subtle mind control techniques to convince you to not resign from Eckankar.
                >
                > Jonathan
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
                > >
                > > A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit eckankar. She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more.
                > >
                > > An hour later the RESA phoned her, and said he wanted to schedule an "exit interview". She thinks that is pretty common now.
                > >
                > > I never heard of it.
                > >
                > > zoey
                > >
                >
              • postekcon
                Zoey, you sound like an ekultist is disguise here? Why ask questions or raise issues on ESA forum, then start shouting down response because you don t like
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 16, 2010
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                  Zoey, you sound like an ekultist is disguise here?
                  Why ask questions or raise issues on ESA forum, then start shouting down response because you don't like pertinent answers?
                  -Postekcon


                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Did your tenure in eckankar teach you nothing, johnathan? Must each of us consult your protocol book prior to leaving the cult?
                  >
                  > My friend chose not to do a 'disappearing act'. She chose to tell her eck clergy of choice her reasons for leaving. She had her reasons for choosing this particular ESA; namely, they were on friendly terms, and, she feels, he will tell the others.
                  >
                  > How do you presume to know her motives? Who are you to dictate how she handles her departure? Please.
                  >
                  > At any rate, my initial post invited comments concerning "exit interviews", which I have not heard of.
                  >
                  > zoey
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Zoey,
                  > >
                  > > I'm really confused by your initial post. First you say
                  > >
                  > > "A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit Eckankar."
                  > >
                  > > Then you say
                  > >
                  > > "She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more."
                  > >
                  > > I then stated that if your friend quit she should not be contacting Eckists to get some kind of approval from them. Where do I get the idea that she wanted approval? You specifically stated "She phoned an ESA she felt COMFORTABLE with." (my emphasis). So once again, if she quit, why is she contacting Eckankar at all? She should be getting on with her own life. And second question "Why is she specifically contacting an ESA that she feels COMFORTABLE with?" I don't get it. It sounds to me like she really hasn't quit Eckankar at all.
                  > >
                  > > You also said:
                  > >
                  > > "She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's approbation never entered the issue."
                  > >
                  > > Why would she even care what Eckankar thinks? Tell her to grow up. Or tell her to join a message board and speak out. She's clueless if she thinks that Eckankar really cares why she left. Not only that, it is none of their business if she already left.
                  > >
                  > > Also, you change your story again from your first post to your second post. In your first post, you say that in talking to the ESA "she briefly said that it [Eckankar] wasn't for her any more [sic]." Then in your second post you say that she "knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find." It seems like you changed your story because first you say that she told the ESA next to nothing, then you say that she wanted a loud-mouthed megaphone. "Why would she want a loud-mouthed megaphone if she told her next to nothing about why she left Eckankar? Again, the fact that she is telling her reasons (sob story) to a loud-mouthed megaphone Eckist is telling me that she wants attention or pity from Eckankar because she feels that they wronged her. Seeking attention from the entity that abused you is giving all of your power to them. Tell her that she is giving all of her power to Eckankar. She needs to consolidate her power within herself. And the best way to do that is simply to ignore Eckankar.
                  > >
                  > > And, Zoey, maybe if you would make a post containing more than three sentences, and explain exactly what happened, I would have a much easier time figuring out what you are talking about. And I would have an easier time making a sensible comment. And I wouldn't have to use my "psychic powers" to figure out what you are talking about.
                  > >
                  > > So now I am going to address everyone except you Zoey. If you are presently a member of Eckabkar, and are contemplating leaving Eckankar, just leave. Don't agree to any "exit interview" because you don't owe Eckankar anything. To give you an analogy, if you are in an abusive relationship and then you quit, then you're done. And its now time to take care of yourself, not be concerned about the other person, i.e., the abuser. If you are the person who can remain friends with people who you knew in Eckankar, then go ahead and do that. Otherwise, just move on.
                  > >
                  > > Jonathan
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks for this input, jonathan. Not knowing you, I will assume that you mean well. I will also assume that you have experience which dictates your views. This may be of some assistance to someone who is, currently, planning to leave eckankar.
                  > > >
                  > > > However, it can serve me very little, considering the fact that I left eckankar long ago. And it can hardly serve my friend, considering the fact that she already quit, as I mentioned.
                  > > >
                  > > > She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's approbation never entered the issue.
                  > > >
                  > > > Keep your day job, jonathan. You'll never make a living as a psychic.
                  > > >
                  > > > zoey
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Zoey,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > First of all, phoning an ESA to inform them that you want to quit is a very bad idea because all you are doing is giving them an opening to convince you that you shouldn't quit. Also, it almost sounds to me that she wants the ESA to support her decision. If a person is truly quitting Eckankar, you don't worry about what anyone in Eckankar thinks. It's your decision; it's your life. This may sound cold-hearted to some people, but it is the only way to deal with an organization which has been controlling your thinking, and indeed your whole life. It's your life now, and you can't allow Eckankar to continue running it.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > If a person wants to quit Eckankar, they should send a letter to the main office informing them of that, they will send you a letter back which asks you to sign a form verifying that you really want to quit. You sign that form, then send it back. Then Eckankar will send you a verification letter. Then contact the person running the Eck center to inform them that you have resigned from Eckankar. The preferred order is mail, email, then phone.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > If you are an initiator, ESA, or have keys to the Eck center, that naturally complicates things.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I would not agree to an exit interview. It seems to me that it is just a guise for them to use subtle mind control techniques to convince you to not resign from Eckankar.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Jonathan
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit eckankar. She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > An hour later the RESA phoned her, and said he wanted to schedule an "exit interview". She thinks that is pretty common now.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I never heard of it.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > zoey
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • prometheus_973
                  Hello All, I ve never heard of exit interviews done for a religion either. Is Eckankar a business, or a religion, or both? Both! And, I too wouldn t
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 16, 2010
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                    Hello All,
                    I've never heard of "exit interviews"
                    done for a religion either. Is Eckankar
                    a business, or a religion, or both?
                    Both! And, I too wouldn't recommend
                    going to one. There's too much trickery
                    and word playing going on!

                    The "Exit Interview" could be a new
                    procedure that the ESC is experimenting
                    with and has set this up for certain regions.
                    Or, it could be the brain child of this particular
                    RESA. In any case what would be the purpose
                    of the interview except to get you to change
                    your mind! However, they might also want
                    to use the interview to get chelas to squeal
                    on other like-minded Eckists. Klemp might
                    want the RESAs to identify the other rotten
                    apples in the barrel, and have them attend
                    a special re-indoctrination (training workshop).


                    I recall that after Ford Johnson wrote
                    "Confessions of a God Seeker" that some
                    ECKists (with and without the approval
                    of their RESA, or the ESC) attempted to
                    do interventions. They let their fellow
                    Eckists know that they were available
                    to intervene with anyone who had read
                    Ford's book and was upset by it and had
                    questions.

                    They claimed to have "read" Confessions
                    and, thus, had the ammo to disprove Johnson's
                    facts. They could turn things around for
                    ECKists who were "confused." The truth
                    is that these know-it-alls (mini-masters)
                    had speed-read Ford's book (just to say
                    they had read it). Next, they attempted
                    to use HK's double talk and PT's (compiled)
                    Shariyat quotes and their own delusional
                    ekperiences to manipulate people's views
                    and twist Ford Johnson's words by taking
                    quotes out of context. It's kind of like what
                    the lackeys in the Republican Party do to
                    discredit Obama.

                    This "exit interview" sounds like it could
                    be an intervention in disguise.

                    For me, responsibility starts at home.
                    I never had the need to resign from
                    Eckankar. After all, since Klemp claims
                    to be ALL KNOWING, and higher than
                    the 4th Plane "God" of all other religions,
                    why would it be necessary for me, or
                    anyone, to write him a snail-mail letter
                    or tell other H.I.s of my resignation?
                    HK can read minds, and Souls, and tell
                    the future! He's a 14th Plane God! He
                    should have known it before it happened!

                    Why should a person write a resignation
                    letter to the ESC, unless, Eckankar was
                    giving prorated refunds on memberships!
                    Besides, Eckankar will continue to spend
                    money on those mailings they send out
                    unless you notify them otherwise... so
                    don't do them any favors! Let them spend
                    that money on those donation letters and
                    seminar news and on the other mailings.
                    Every little bit hurts, and, it's their karma!

                    Actually, if an Eckist wanted to unload
                    on Klemp with a bluntly worded letter
                    and didn't care about the outcome then
                    make it an IRO or HIRO Letter. Don't make
                    it a resignation letter! Sure, you might be
                    demoted to a 1st initiate, or told to read
                    the Shariyat for one year, but you might,
                    also, get excommunicated!

                    That last one would, actually, be sort
                    of cool! No! I take it back. It would
                    Definitely be Cool to be excommunicated
                    by that fake master - crabby old Klemp
                    (the tired-ass Mahanta).

                    Prometheus


                    Zoey wrote:
                    Did your tenure in eckankar teach you nothing, johnathan?
                    Must each of us consult your protocol book prior to leaving the cult?

                    My friend chose not to do a 'disappearing act'. She chose to tell her eck
                    clergy of choice her reasons for leaving. She had her reasons for choosing this
                    particular ESA; namely, they were on friendly terms, and, she feels, he will
                    tell the others.

                    How do you presume to know her motives? Who are you to dictate how she handles
                    her departure? Please.

                    At any rate, my initial post invited comments concerning "exit interviews",
                    which I have not heard of.

                    zoey


                    <jonathan wrote:
                    >
                    > Zoey,
                    >
                    > I'm really confused by your initial post. First you say
                    >
                    > "A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit Eckankar."
                    >
                    > Then you say
                    >
                    > "She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it
                    wasn't for her any more."
                    >
                    > I then stated that if your friend quit she should not be contacting Eckists to
                    get some kind of approval from them. Where do I get the idea that she wanted
                    approval? You specifically stated "She phoned an ESA she felt COMFORTABLE with."
                    (my emphasis). So once again, if she quit, why is she contacting Eckankar at
                    all? She should be getting on with her own life. And second question "Why is she
                    specifically contacting an ESA that she feels COMFORTABLE with?" I don't get it.
                    It sounds to me like she really hasn't quit Eckankar at all.
                    >
                    > You also said:
                    >
                    > "She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local
                    group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this
                    loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's
                    approbation never entered the issue."
                    >
                    > Why would she even care what Eckankar thinks? Tell her to grow up. Or tell her
                    to join a message board and speak out. She's clueless if she thinks that
                    Eckankar really cares why she left. Not only that, it is none of their business
                    if she already left.
                    >
                    > Also, you change your story again from your first post to your second post. In
                    your first post, you say that in talking to the ESA "she briefly said that it
                    [Eckankar] wasn't for her any more [sic]." Then in your second post you say that
                    she "knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find." It
                    seems like you changed your story because first you say that she told the ESA
                    next to nothing, then you say that she wanted a loud-mouthed megaphone. "Why
                    would she want a loud-mouthed megaphone if she told her next to nothing about
                    why she left Eckankar? Again, the fact that she is telling her reasons (sob
                    story) to a loud-mouthed megaphone Eckist is telling me that she wants attention
                    or pity from Eckankar because she feels that they wronged her. Seeking attention
                    from the entity that abused you is giving all of your power to them. Tell her
                    that she is giving all of her power to Eckankar. She needs to consolidate her
                    power within herself. And the best way to do that is simply to ignore Eckankar.
                    >
                    > And, Zoey, maybe if you would make a post containing more than three
                    sentences, and explain exactly what happened, I would have a much easier time
                    figuring out what you are talking about. And I would have an easier time making
                    a sensible comment. And I wouldn't have to use my "psychic powers" to figure out
                    what you are talking about.
                    >
                    > So now I am going to address everyone except you Zoey. If you are presently a
                    member of Eckabkar, and are contemplating leaving Eckankar, just leave. Don't
                    agree to any "exit interview" because you don't owe Eckankar anything. To give
                    you an analogy, if you are in an abusive relationship and then you quit, then
                    you're done. And its now time to take care of yourself, not be concerned about
                    the other person, i.e., the abuser. If you are the person who can remain friends
                    with people who you knew in Eckankar, then go ahead and do that. Otherwise, just
                    move on.
                    >
                    > Jonathan
                  • Zoey
                    Postecon, If you will please direct me to the Operating Manual, the one which dictates what an ex-eckist sounds like, I will be glad to read it. Apparantly,
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 17, 2010
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                      Postecon, If you will please direct me to the Operating Manual, the one which dictates what an ex-eckist sounds like, I will be glad to read it. Apparantly, there is some manual with which I am unaware. Talk about your cult behavior.

                      Johnathan half read my email, then jumped my case about how I should leave eckankar. But, Dear, I left eckankar many moons ago. Furthermore, Johnathan made assumptions about my friend, which are ridiculous and out-of-line. He is, definitely not, psychic.

                      The only question I posed was this: Has anyone ever heard of eckankar doing "exit interviews"?

                      My friend did as I did; she left eckankar under her own steam, in her own style. And if you and johnathan can't handle the fact that you were not consulted on the matter - oh well. Life sure does suck when people do their own thinking, doesn't it?

                      Now get off it. This has gone on too long as it is.

                      zoey

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Zoey, you sound like an ekultist is disguise here?
                      > Why ask questions or raise issues on ESA forum, then start shouting down response because you don't like pertinent answers?
                      > -Postekcon
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Did your tenure in eckankar teach you nothing, johnathan? Must each of us consult your protocol book prior to leaving the cult?
                      > >
                      > > My friend chose not to do a 'disappearing act'. She chose to tell her eck clergy of choice her reasons for leaving. She had her reasons for choosing this particular ESA; namely, they were on friendly terms, and, she feels, he will tell the others.
                      > >
                      > > How do you presume to know her motives? Who are you to dictate how she handles her departure? Please.
                      > >
                      > > At any rate, my initial post invited comments concerning "exit interviews", which I have not heard of.
                      > >
                      > > zoey
                      > >
                      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Zoey,
                      > > >
                      > > > I'm really confused by your initial post. First you say
                      > > >
                      > > > "A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit Eckankar."
                      > > >
                      > > > Then you say
                      > > >
                      > > > "She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more."
                      > > >
                      > > > I then stated that if your friend quit she should not be contacting Eckists to get some kind of approval from them. Where do I get the idea that she wanted approval? You specifically stated "She phoned an ESA she felt COMFORTABLE with." (my emphasis). So once again, if she quit, why is she contacting Eckankar at all? She should be getting on with her own life. And second question "Why is she specifically contacting an ESA that she feels COMFORTABLE with?" I don't get it. It sounds to me like she really hasn't quit Eckankar at all.
                      > > >
                      > > > You also said:
                      > > >
                      > > > "She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's approbation never entered the issue."
                      > > >
                      > > > Why would she even care what Eckankar thinks? Tell her to grow up. Or tell her to join a message board and speak out. She's clueless if she thinks that Eckankar really cares why she left. Not only that, it is none of their business if she already left.
                      > > >
                      > > > Also, you change your story again from your first post to your second post. In your first post, you say that in talking to the ESA "she briefly said that it [Eckankar] wasn't for her any more [sic]." Then in your second post you say that she "knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find." It seems like you changed your story because first you say that she told the ESA next to nothing, then you say that she wanted a loud-mouthed megaphone. "Why would she want a loud-mouthed megaphone if she told her next to nothing about why she left Eckankar? Again, the fact that she is telling her reasons (sob story) to a loud-mouthed megaphone Eckist is telling me that she wants attention or pity from Eckankar because she feels that they wronged her. Seeking attention from the entity that abused you is giving all of your power to them. Tell her that she is giving all of her power to Eckankar. She needs to consolidate her power within herself. And the best way to do that is simply to ignore Eckankar.
                      > > >
                      > > > And, Zoey, maybe if you would make a post containing more than three sentences, and explain exactly what happened, I would have a much easier time figuring out what you are talking about. And I would have an easier time making a sensible comment. And I wouldn't have to use my "psychic powers" to figure out what you are talking about.
                      > > >
                      > > > So now I am going to address everyone except you Zoey. If you are presently a member of Eckabkar, and are contemplating leaving Eckankar, just leave. Don't agree to any "exit interview" because you don't owe Eckankar anything. To give you an analogy, if you are in an abusive relationship and then you quit, then you're done. And its now time to take care of yourself, not be concerned about the other person, i.e., the abuser. If you are the person who can remain friends with people who you knew in Eckankar, then go ahead and do that. Otherwise, just move on.
                      > > >
                      > > > Jonathan
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks for this input, jonathan. Not knowing you, I will assume that you mean well. I will also assume that you have experience which dictates your views. This may be of some assistance to someone who is, currently, planning to leave eckankar.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > However, it can serve me very little, considering the fact that I left eckankar long ago. And it can hardly serve my friend, considering the fact that she already quit, as I mentioned.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's approbation never entered the issue.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Keep your day job, jonathan. You'll never make a living as a psychic.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > zoey
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Zoey,
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > First of all, phoning an ESA to inform them that you want to quit is a very bad idea because all you are doing is giving them an opening to convince you that you shouldn't quit. Also, it almost sounds to me that she wants the ESA to support her decision. If a person is truly quitting Eckankar, you don't worry about what anyone in Eckankar thinks. It's your decision; it's your life. This may sound cold-hearted to some people, but it is the only way to deal with an organization which has been controlling your thinking, and indeed your whole life. It's your life now, and you can't allow Eckankar to continue running it.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > If a person wants to quit Eckankar, they should send a letter to the main office informing them of that, they will send you a letter back which asks you to sign a form verifying that you really want to quit. You sign that form, then send it back. Then Eckankar will send you a verification letter. Then contact the person running the Eck center to inform them that you have resigned from Eckankar. The preferred order is mail, email, then phone.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > If you are an initiator, ESA, or have keys to the Eck center, that naturally complicates things.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I would not agree to an exit interview. It seems to me that it is just a guise for them to use subtle mind control techniques to convince you to not resign from Eckankar.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Jonathan
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit eckankar. She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > An hour later the RESA phoned her, and said he wanted to schedule an "exit interview". She thinks that is pretty common now.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > I never heard of it.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > zoey
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • mishmisha9
                      I don t see any need for any of us to be attacking one another. This site is for discussing the cult eckankar . . . insults directed at members of ESA are
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 17, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I don't see any need for any of us to be attacking one another.
                        This site is for discussing the cult eckankar . . . insults directed at
                        members of ESA are distracting readers from the purposeful discussions
                        and intent of the forum. It creates an unfriendly atmosphere and can
                        discourage others from posting. Can we stop this fuss, please!

                        I've read the posts . . . I don't need re-directed to any of them
                        to re-emphasize or rehash your complaints. Let's move on.

                        Mish

                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Postecon, If you will please direct me to the Operating Manual, the one which dictates what an ex-eckist sounds like, I will be glad to read it. Apparantly, there is some manual with which I am unaware. Talk about your cult behavior.
                        >
                        > Johnathan half read my email, then jumped my case about how I should leave eckankar. But, Dear, I left eckankar many moons ago. Furthermore, Johnathan made assumptions about my friend, which are ridiculous and out-of-line. He is, definitely not, psychic.
                        >
                        > The only question I posed was this: Has anyone ever heard of eckankar doing "exit interviews"?
                        >
                        > My friend did as I did; she left eckankar under her own steam, in her own style. And if you and johnathan can't handle the fact that you were not consulted on the matter - oh well. Life sure does suck when people do their own thinking, doesn't it?
                        >
                        > Now get off it. This has gone on too long as it is.
                        >
                        > zoey
                        >
                        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Zoey, you sound like an ekultist is disguise here?
                        > > Why ask questions or raise issues on ESA forum, then start shouting down response because you don't like pertinent answers?
                        > > -Postekcon
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Did your tenure in eckankar teach you nothing, johnathan? Must each of us consult your protocol book prior to leaving the cult?
                        > > >
                        > > > My friend chose not to do a 'disappearing act'. She chose to tell her eck clergy of choice her reasons for leaving. She had her reasons for choosing this particular ESA; namely, they were on friendly terms, and, she feels, he will tell the others.
                        > > >
                        > > > How do you presume to know her motives? Who are you to dictate how she handles her departure? Please.
                        > > >
                        > > > At any rate, my initial post invited comments concerning "exit interviews", which I have not heard of.
                        > > >
                        > > > zoey
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Zoey,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I'm really confused by your initial post. First you say
                        > > > >
                        > > > > "A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit Eckankar."
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Then you say
                        > > > >
                        > > > > "She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more."
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I then stated that if your friend quit she should not be contacting Eckists to get some kind of approval from them. Where do I get the idea that she wanted approval? You specifically stated "She phoned an ESA she felt COMFORTABLE with." (my emphasis). So once again, if she quit, why is she contacting Eckankar at all? She should be getting on with her own life. And second question "Why is she specifically contacting an ESA that she feels COMFORTABLE with?" I don't get it. It sounds to me like she really hasn't quit Eckankar at all.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > You also said:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > "She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's approbation never entered the issue."
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Why would she even care what Eckankar thinks? Tell her to grow up. Or tell her to join a message board and speak out. She's clueless if she thinks that Eckankar really cares why she left. Not only that, it is none of their business if she already left.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Also, you change your story again from your first post to your second post. In your first post, you say that in talking to the ESA "she briefly said that it [Eckankar] wasn't for her any more [sic]." Then in your second post you say that she "knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find." It seems like you changed your story because first you say that she told the ESA next to nothing, then you say that she wanted a loud-mouthed megaphone. "Why would she want a loud-mouthed megaphone if she told her next to nothing about why she left Eckankar? Again, the fact that she is telling her reasons (sob story) to a loud-mouthed megaphone Eckist is telling me that she wants attention or pity from Eckankar because she feels that they wronged her. Seeking attention from the entity that abused you is giving all of your power to them. Tell her that she is giving all of her power to Eckankar. She needs to consolidate her power within herself. And the best way to do that is simply to ignore Eckankar.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > And, Zoey, maybe if you would make a post containing more than three sentences, and explain exactly what happened, I would have a much easier time figuring out what you are talking about. And I would have an easier time making a sensible comment. And I wouldn't have to use my "psychic powers" to figure out what you are talking about.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > So now I am going to address everyone except you Zoey. If you are presently a member of Eckabkar, and are contemplating leaving Eckankar, just leave. Don't agree to any "exit interview" because you don't owe Eckankar anything. To give you an analogy, if you are in an abusive relationship and then you quit, then you're done. And its now time to take care of yourself, not be concerned about the other person, i.e., the abuser. If you are the person who can remain friends with people who you knew in Eckankar, then go ahead and do that. Otherwise, just move on.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Jonathan
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Thanks for this input, jonathan. Not knowing you, I will assume that you mean well. I will also assume that you have experience which dictates your views. This may be of some assistance to someone who is, currently, planning to leave eckankar.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > However, it can serve me very little, considering the fact that I left eckankar long ago. And it can hardly serve my friend, considering the fact that she already quit, as I mentioned.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's approbation never entered the issue.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Keep your day job, jonathan. You'll never make a living as a psychic.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > zoey
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Zoey,
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > First of all, phoning an ESA to inform them that you want to quit is a very bad idea because all you are doing is giving them an opening to convince you that you shouldn't quit. Also, it almost sounds to me that she wants the ESA to support her decision. If a person is truly quitting Eckankar, you don't worry about what anyone in Eckankar thinks. It's your decision; it's your life. This may sound cold-hearted to some people, but it is the only way to deal with an organization which has been controlling your thinking, and indeed your whole life. It's your life now, and you can't allow Eckankar to continue running it.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > If a person wants to quit Eckankar, they should send a letter to the main office informing them of that, they will send you a letter back which asks you to sign a form verifying that you really want to quit. You sign that form, then send it back. Then Eckankar will send you a verification letter. Then contact the person running the Eck center to inform them that you have resigned from Eckankar. The preferred order is mail, email, then phone.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > If you are an initiator, ESA, or have keys to the Eck center, that naturally complicates things.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > I would not agree to an exit interview. It seems to me that it is just a guise for them to use subtle mind control techniques to convince you to not resign from Eckankar.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Jonathan
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit eckankar. She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > An hour later the RESA phoned her, and said he wanted to schedule an "exit interview". She thinks that is pretty common now.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > I never heard of it.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > zoey
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • ctecvie
                        Zoey, wow - you are a bit rude here, aren t you? Anyway, it s none of my business, I just wanted to add that some time after we had left, a letter came with a
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 24, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Zoey,

                          wow - you are a bit rude here, aren't you? Anyway, it's none of my business, I just wanted to add that some time after we had left, a letter came with a questionnaire or something like that and we were asked to fill it out and give our reasons for leaving. Well, we never did that because we weren't interested. We hadn't left in silence and had already done what was necessary to inform all eckists we could get hold of about our reasons anyway.

                          Ingrid

                          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Postecon, If you will please direct me to the Operating Manual, the one which dictates what an ex-eckist sounds like, I will be glad to read it. Apparantly, there is some manual with which I am unaware. Talk about your cult behavior.
                          >
                          > Johnathan half read my email, then jumped my case about how I should leave eckankar. But, Dear, I left eckankar many moons ago. Furthermore, Johnathan made assumptions about my friend, which are ridiculous and out-of-line. He is, definitely not, psychic.
                          >
                          > The only question I posed was this: Has anyone ever heard of eckankar doing "exit interviews"?
                          >
                          > My friend did as I did; she left eckankar under her own steam, in her own style. And if you and johnathan can't handle the fact that you were not consulted on the matter - oh well. Life sure does suck when people do their own thinking, doesn't it?
                          >
                          > Now get off it. This has gone on too long as it is.
                          >
                          > zoey
                          >
                          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "postekcon" <postekcon@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Zoey, you sound like an ekultist is disguise here?
                          > > Why ask questions or raise issues on ESA forum, then start shouting down response because you don't like pertinent answers?
                          > > -Postekcon
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Did your tenure in eckankar teach you nothing, johnathan? Must each of us consult your protocol book prior to leaving the cult?
                          > > >
                          > > > My friend chose not to do a 'disappearing act'. She chose to tell her eck clergy of choice her reasons for leaving. She had her reasons for choosing this particular ESA; namely, they were on friendly terms, and, she feels, he will tell the others.
                          > > >
                          > > > How do you presume to know her motives? Who are you to dictate how she handles her departure? Please.
                          > > >
                          > > > At any rate, my initial post invited comments concerning "exit interviews", which I have not heard of.
                          > > >
                          > > > zoey
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Zoey,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I'm really confused by your initial post. First you say
                          > > > >
                          > > > > "A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit Eckankar."
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Then you say
                          > > > >
                          > > > > "She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more."
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I then stated that if your friend quit she should not be contacting Eckists to get some kind of approval from them. Where do I get the idea that she wanted approval? You specifically stated "She phoned an ESA she felt COMFORTABLE with." (my emphasis). So once again, if she quit, why is she contacting Eckankar at all? She should be getting on with her own life. And second question "Why is she specifically contacting an ESA that she feels COMFORTABLE with?" I don't get it. It sounds to me like she really hasn't quit Eckankar at all.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > You also said:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > "She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's approbation never entered the issue."
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Why would she even care what Eckankar thinks? Tell her to grow up. Or tell her to join a message board and speak out. She's clueless if she thinks that Eckankar really cares why she left. Not only that, it is none of their business if she already left.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Also, you change your story again from your first post to your second post. In your first post, you say that in talking to the ESA "she briefly said that it [Eckankar] wasn't for her any more [sic]." Then in your second post you say that she "knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find." It seems like you changed your story because first you say that she told the ESA next to nothing, then you say that she wanted a loud-mouthed megaphone. "Why would she want a loud-mouthed megaphone if she told her next to nothing about why she left Eckankar? Again, the fact that she is telling her reasons (sob story) to a loud-mouthed megaphone Eckist is telling me that she wants attention or pity from Eckankar because she feels that they wronged her. Seeking attention from the entity that abused you is giving all of your power to them. Tell her that she is giving all of her power to Eckankar. She needs to consolidate her power within herself. And the best way to do that is simply to ignore Eckankar.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > And, Zoey, maybe if you would make a post containing more than three sentences, and explain exactly what happened, I would have a much easier time figuring out what you are talking about. And I would have an easier time making a sensible comment. And I wouldn't have to use my "psychic powers" to figure out what you are talking about.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > So now I am going to address everyone except you Zoey. If you are presently a member of Eckabkar, and are contemplating leaving Eckankar, just leave. Don't agree to any "exit interview" because you don't owe Eckankar anything. To give you an analogy, if you are in an abusive relationship and then you quit, then you're done. And its now time to take care of yourself, not be concerned about the other person, i.e., the abuser. If you are the person who can remain friends with people who you knew in Eckankar, then go ahead and do that. Otherwise, just move on.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Jonathan
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Thanks for this input, jonathan. Not knowing you, I will assume that you mean well. I will also assume that you have experience which dictates your views. This may be of some assistance to someone who is, currently, planning to leave eckankar.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > However, it can serve me very little, considering the fact that I left eckankar long ago. And it can hardly serve my friend, considering the fact that she already quit, as I mentioned.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > She quit in the manner that was most reasonable for her. She WANTED the local group, as well as the Corp, to know her reasons for leaving - and knew this loud-mouthed ESA would be the best megaphone she could find. The ESA's approbation never entered the issue.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Keep your day job, jonathan. You'll never make a living as a psychic.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > zoey
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Zoey,
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > First of all, phoning an ESA to inform them that you want to quit is a very bad idea because all you are doing is giving them an opening to convince you that you shouldn't quit. Also, it almost sounds to me that she wants the ESA to support her decision. If a person is truly quitting Eckankar, you don't worry about what anyone in Eckankar thinks. It's your decision; it's your life. This may sound cold-hearted to some people, but it is the only way to deal with an organization which has been controlling your thinking, and indeed your whole life. It's your life now, and you can't allow Eckankar to continue running it.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > If a person wants to quit Eckankar, they should send a letter to the main office informing them of that, they will send you a letter back which asks you to sign a form verifying that you really want to quit. You sign that form, then send it back. Then Eckankar will send you a verification letter. Then contact the person running the Eck center to inform them that you have resigned from Eckankar. The preferred order is mail, email, then phone.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > If you are an initiator, ESA, or have keys to the Eck center, that naturally complicates things.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I would not agree to an exit interview. It seems to me that it is just a guise for them to use subtle mind control techniques to convince you to not resign from Eckankar.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Jonathan
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Zoey" <zzoey75@> wrote:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > A friend called me today to tell me that she had quit eckankar. She phoned an ESA that she was comfortable with, and briefly said that it wasn't for her any more.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > An hour later the RESA phoned her, and said he wanted to schedule an "exit interview". She thinks that is pretty common now.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > I never heard of it.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > zoey
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
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