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Jan. 2010 - Youth in ECK Letter of Light - Q & A (2 of 3)

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  • prometheus_973
    Here s Klemp s 2nd (technology related) Q & A from the 01/2010 Youth in ECK Letter of Light. #2 of 3 Q: With technology consistently advancing and people
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 11, 2010
      Here's Klemp's 2nd (technology related)
      Q & A from the 01/2010 Youth in ECK
      Letter of Light.

      #2 of 3

      Q: "With technology consistently advancing
      and people becoming more easily connected
      through cell phones, the Internet, etc., the
      expectations of these people using these
      forms of communication are increasing.

      How can young Vahanas keep their personal
      space?"

      --Elliot, age 19, Saskatchewan, Canada

      [My caps are added below]

      HK: "A sour fact of life is that we can't
      always have our cake and eat it too.

      To enjoy peace of mind is largely in your
      hands.

      Decide which contacts are Most Important
      to you. Put these into Group A.

      The Sort-Of-Important ones go into
      Group B.

      The rest belong to Group C, which
      includes the Not-At-All contacts
      AND the Occasional Ones.

      Begin to Shut Down Group C.

      For ECK contacts, can you Set Aside
      a Certain Day to have ECKists reach
      you? Tell your ECK friends the Situation.
      They Should understand.

      Obviously, there is No Way to give you
      an Easy, One-Size-Fits-All solution,
      since conditions will change.

      An Overly Busy Life calls for Superb
      Organization. It is all part of Spiritual
      Unfoldment." --Harold

      Prometheus


      prometheus wrote:

      Klemp once again uses the EK Principle of
      the Threes (representing the Trinity) and
      lists three "Questions for the Master."

      #1 of 3

      Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
      How can I enjoy life when it is going
      by so fast? Sam, age 12"

      HK: "Some say, time flies when you
      are having fun.

      However, many today are having
      no fun at all, because they are
      overwhelmed by all there is to do.
      Computers, TV, the Internet, and
      other forms of communication and
      entertainment have become commonplace."

      ME: That's a strange question for a kid
      to ask. I wanted to grow up fast and had
      set goals to accomplish. After Junior High
      School I wanted to be in High School then
      I wanted to be 16 so I could get my driver's
      license etc, etc. Then I wanted to be 18
      and leave home and go to college and travel.
      Also, I had all kinds of fun at age 12 and
      pretty much lived in the moment. Maybe
      EK Youth are hampered by their nutty parents
      and the Eckankar cult/church that promotes
      Mahanta Co-dependency.

      HK: "Few people now take time to be
      alone.

      To slow down time means to look at
      what things eat up your time.

      Do you really wish to slow down time?
      Then this is the moment to make some
      hard choices. What are you willing to give
      up?"

      ME: This is a 12 year old ECKist Harry's
      speaking to. More than likely he's doing
      his daily 20 minute contemplations and
      is already taking "time to be alone!"
      Maybe there's another reason this kid
      doesn't want "time" to go by so fast. He
      might not want to grow-up because that
      would mean more grown-up responsibilities.
      It could be that he's experiencing pressures
      to get more involved with the ECK Youth
      and become a Vahana, etc.

      HK: "No matter your answer, you will
      learn something important about you."

      ME: What if his answer is to give up
      his religion, thus, give up Eckankar?
      Is that okay? Klemp says, "No matter
      your answer," but is HK being truthful?
      I doubt it!

      HK: "The spiritual principle at work
      here is that everything has a price
      tag hung on it."

      ME: I can see why Klemp's mind is
      fixated upon money, but doesn't that
      analogy just confuse the issue for
      a 12 year old when you start out
      saying "The spiritual principle at
      work here..."

      HK: "In other words, what are you
      willing to pay for what you want?"

      ME: Does the pitch of "coin and/or
      service" come next or is that for
      later when he gets older? Or, is it
      to have Co-dependency upon the
      Mahanta regardless of the outcome?

      HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
      It is yet another name for the Law of
      Karma."

      [Q: "How can I enjoy life when it is
      going by so fast"]

      ME: WOW! I'm glad that Klemp (the
      14th Plane Mahanta) could give such
      helpful advice to this 12 year old EKist!
      Klemp answered his question so specifically
      and with such spiritual insight! I'm sure
      that HK's answer will comfort the boy.
      Not!

      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Jonathan and All, I agree with your observations. However, ECKist s are taught that Klemp (the Mahanta) is All Knowing, therefore, this qualifies him to
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 11, 2010
        Hello Jonathan and All,
        I agree with your observations. However,
        ECKist's are taught that Klemp (the Mahanta)
        is All Knowing, therefore, this qualifies him
        to "know" all about this kid's situation...
        so why does he need to have snail-mail
        Q & A?

        Unfortunately, most ECKists do think
        that Klemp's message is the ultimate
        source of truth, and will never question
        or analyze the content and worth of his
        words. The truth is, Klemp isn't the
        original source for anything he's ever
        written or said!

        Klemp is living in the past, thus, his
        slow-down and smell-the-coffee/flowers
        response will always seem apropos.
        And yet there is some truth there... but
        Klemp is merely repeating what others
        (non-ECK Masters) have observed.

        However, IMO, gaming can be meditative/
        contemplative technique. Gaming and
        texting etc. are active (non-drug) distractions
        from the insecurities and anxieties that
        the youth experience in this fast-moving
        world. These can be seen as "physically active"
        (versus physically inactive) techniques for
        meditation/contemplation. BTW-IMO,
        fishing can also be a "physically active"
        meditation/contemplation technique.
        Anything can stimulate a greater awareness,
        although, and once again, this is where
        Balance Is Key.

        It's interesting that Klemp mentions
        "COMPUTERS" and the "INTERNET"
        (negatively) in his Answer to question
        #1 and in the very next Question (#2)
        the INTERNET is mentioned again!

        Yes, Klemp is off-the-mark when he
        states "many today are having no fun
        at all, because they are overwhelmed"
        due to "Computers, TV, the Internet."
        I'd say that these people ARE having
        fun! Klemp's an old butt-head! Besides,
        people are communicating more and
        more via gaming and Facebook, Twitter,
        etc.! This is what Klemp doesn't like...
        he's losing control over the EK Youth,
        thus, his use of Fear Tactics to scare
        them back on-track or to keep them
        from using critical thinking and leaving
        the cult/church.


        Prometheus


        jonathan wrote:

        The kid's question to Klemp was:

        Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
        How can I enjoy life when it is going
        by so fast? Sam, age 12"

        Me (Jonathan) First of all, I really have no idea exactly what this kid is
        talking about. I would need more information from him before I could give him an
        intelligent answer. Probably a three minute conversation with him would be
        enough since I am fairly intuitive. But that doesn't seem to bother Klemp; he
        eventually launches into an entire Eckankar discourse which I am pretty certain
        would just overwhelm and confuse the average 12-year old.

        But I do like Klemp's comments about how there are too many of what I call
        "distractions" such as TV, video games, etc. But I think that it is more simple
        than that even. Over the past ten years or more, I have noticed that American
        kids always have to do be doing "something." They have to be playing sports,
        watching TV, going to a movie, going fishing. They have absolutely no tolerance
        for spending even five minutes with their own thoughts, absent of external
        input. When the economic crisis hit the United States a little over a year ago I
        predicted that it would be good for American families because the family members
        would be forced to spend more time interacting with each other instead of doing
        "stuff." Some have said that my prediction was correct. So I feel that Klemp is
        onto something in this regard, but whether it actually applies to this kid is
        something I really don't know. It seems like Klemp may have just used the kid's
        question as an excuse to talk about something that he wanted to talk about.

        The criticism I have of Klemp's answer is that, as I read it, I was bothered by
        the following statements:

        HK: "The spiritual principle at work
        here is that everything has a price
        tag hung on it."

        HK: "In other words, what are you
        willing to pay for what you want?"

        HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
        It is yet another name for the Law of
        Karma."

        It seems like Klemp always gets around to having a condescending and judgmental
        attitude toward people. When talking to this 12-year old, he kinda reminds me of
        a Marine drill sergeant talking to new recruits: "What do you lame #&*%# really
        want? Are you deserving? What are you willing to pay to be a Marine?" In other
        words, Klemp always seems to look down on his followers as a bunch of
        do-nothings who are not living up to his expectations. Then at the end of
        Klemp's answer he even throws in the "Law of Karma" seemingly as a scare tactic.

        It just doesn't seem to me that Klemp is very love-based. And it seems to me
        that there must be a better way for someone who claims to be a spiritual master
        to motivate people spiritually. Toward the end of Klemp's "answer" it turned
        into more of a condescending lecture/scare tactic. I am questioning how much
        real value that is to a 12-year old. I think it would have been better to
        encourage the kid to be in tune with Spirit.

        One more thought. I wonder how many parents want their kids to be busy all the
        time so that they don't have to spend time with them. Putting your kids in front
        of a TV set when they are little in order to babysit them is probably the start
        of this whole pattern.


        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Klemp once again uses the EK Principle of
        > the Threes (representing the Trinity) and
        > lists three "Questions for the Master."
        >
        > Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
        > How can I enjoy life when it is going
        > by so fast? Sam, age 12"
        >
        > HK: "Some say, time flies when you
        > are having fun.
        >
        > However, many today are having
        > no fun at all, because they are
        > overwhelmed by all there is to do.
        > Computers, TV, the Internet, and
        > other forms of communication and
        > entertainment have become commonplace."
        >
        > ME: That's a strange question for a kid
        > to ask. I wanted to grow up fast and had
        > set goals to accomplish. After Junior High
        > School I wanted to be in High School then
        > I wanted to be 16 so I could get my driver's
        > license etc, etc. Then I wanted to be 18
        > and leave home and go to college and travel.
        > Also, I had all kinds of fun at age 12 and
        > pretty much lived in the moment. Maybe
        > EK Youth are hampered by their nutty parents
        > and the Eckankar cult/church that promotes
        > Mahanta Co-dependency.
        >
        > HK: "Few people now take time to be
        > alone.
        >
        > To slow down time means to look at
        > what things eat up your time.
        >
        > Do you really wish to slow down time?
        > Then this is the moment to make some
        > hard choices. What are you willing to give
        > up?"
        >
        > ME: This is a 12 year old ECKist Harry's
        > speaking to. More than likely he's doing
        > his daily 20 minute contemplations and
        > is already taking "time to be alone!"
        > Maybe there's another reason this kid
        > doesn't want "time" to go by so fast. He
        > might not want to grow-up because that
        > would mean more grown-up responsibilities.
        > It could be that he's experiencing pressures
        > to get more involved with the ECK Youth
        > and become a Vahana, etc.
        >
        > HK: "No matter your answer, you will
        > learn something important about you."
        >
        > ME: What if his answer is to give up
        > his religion, thus, give up Eckankar?
        > Is that okay? Klemp says, "No matter
        > your answer," but is HK being truthful?
        > I doubt it!
        >
        > HK: "The spiritual principle at work
        > here is that everything has a price
        > tag hung on it."
        >
        > ME: I can see why Klemp's mind is
        > fixated upon money, but doesn't that
        > analogy just confuse the issue for
        > a 12 year old when you start out
        > saying "The spiritual principle at
        > work here..."
        >
        > HK: "In other words, what are you
        > willing to pay for what you want?"
        >
        > ME: Does the pitch of "coin and/or
        > service" come next or is that for
        > later when he gets older? Or, is it
        > to have Co-dependency upon the
        > Mahanta regardless of the outcome?
        >
        > HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
        > It is yet another name for the Law of
        > Karma."
        >
        > [Q: "How can I enjoy life when it is
        > going by so fast"]
        >
        > ME: WOW! I'm glad that Klemp (the
        > 14th Plane Mahanta) could give such
        > helpful advice to this 12 year old EKist!
        > Klemp answered his question so specifically
        > and with such spiritual insight! I'm sure
        > that HK's answer will comfort the boy.
        > Not!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • postekcon
        A teen having problems because technology is advancing too fast! A teen complaining technology is interfering with their personal space! A teen writing
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 12, 2010
          A teen having problems because technology is advancing too fast!
          A teen complaining technology is interfering with their personal space!
          A teen writing assistance from an emr-ridden lem for 'help' organizing an 'inbox'!

          -No further comment! LOL!
          -Postekcon


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Here's Klemp's 2nd (technology related)
          > Q & A from the 01/2010 Youth in ECK
          > Letter of Light.
          >
          > #2 of 3
          >
          > Q: "With technology consistently advancing
          > and people becoming more easily connected
          > through cell phones, the Internet, etc., the
          > expectations of these people using these
          > forms of communication are increasing.
          >
          > How can young Vahanas keep their personal
          > space?"
          >
          > --Elliot, age 19, Saskatchewan, Canada
          >
          > [My caps are added below]
          >
          > HK: "A sour fact of life is that we can't
          > always have our cake and eat it too.
          >
          > To enjoy peace of mind is largely in your
          > hands.
          >
          > Decide which contacts are Most Important
          > to you. Put these into Group A.
          >
          > The Sort-Of-Important ones go into
          > Group B.
          >
          > The rest belong to Group C, which
          > includes the Not-At-All contacts
          > AND the Occasional Ones.
          >
          > Begin to Shut Down Group C.
          >
          > For ECK contacts, can you Set Aside
          > a Certain Day to have ECKists reach
          > you? Tell your ECK friends the Situation.
          > They Should understand.
          >
          > Obviously, there is No Way to give you
          > an Easy, One-Size-Fits-All solution,
          > since conditions will change.
          >
          > An Overly Busy Life calls for Superb
          > Organization. It is all part of Spiritual
          > Unfoldment." --Harold
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Klemp once again uses the EK Principle of
          > the Threes (representing the Trinity) and
          > lists three "Questions for the Master."
          >
          > #1 of 3
          >
          > Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
          > How can I enjoy life when it is going
          > by so fast? Sam, age 12"
          >
          > HK: "Some say, time flies when you
          > are having fun.
          >
          > However, many today are having
          > no fun at all, because they are
          > overwhelmed by all there is to do.
          > Computers, TV, the Internet, and
          > other forms of communication and
          > entertainment have become commonplace."
          >
          > ME: That's a strange question for a kid
          > to ask. I wanted to grow up fast and had
          > set goals to accomplish. After Junior High
          > School I wanted to be in High School then
          > I wanted to be 16 so I could get my driver's
          > license etc, etc. Then I wanted to be 18
          > and leave home and go to college and travel.
          > Also, I had all kinds of fun at age 12 and
          > pretty much lived in the moment. Maybe
          > EK Youth are hampered by their nutty parents
          > and the Eckankar cult/church that promotes
          > Mahanta Co-dependency.
          >
          > HK: "Few people now take time to be
          > alone.
          >
          > To slow down time means to look at
          > what things eat up your time.
          >
          > Do you really wish to slow down time?
          > Then this is the moment to make some
          > hard choices. What are you willing to give
          > up?"
          >
          > ME: This is a 12 year old ECKist Harry's
          > speaking to. More than likely he's doing
          > his daily 20 minute contemplations and
          > is already taking "time to be alone!"
          > Maybe there's another reason this kid
          > doesn't want "time" to go by so fast. He
          > might not want to grow-up because that
          > would mean more grown-up responsibilities.
          > It could be that he's experiencing pressures
          > to get more involved with the ECK Youth
          > and become a Vahana, etc.
          >
          > HK: "No matter your answer, you will
          > learn something important about you."
          >
          > ME: What if his answer is to give up
          > his religion, thus, give up Eckankar?
          > Is that okay? Klemp says, "No matter
          > your answer," but is HK being truthful?
          > I doubt it!
          >
          > HK: "The spiritual principle at work
          > here is that everything has a price
          > tag hung on it."
          >
          > ME: I can see why Klemp's mind is
          > fixated upon money, but doesn't that
          > analogy just confuse the issue for
          > a 12 year old when you start out
          > saying "The spiritual principle at
          > work here..."
          >
          > HK: "In other words, what are you
          > willing to pay for what you want?"
          >
          > ME: Does the pitch of "coin and/or
          > service" come next or is that for
          > later when he gets older? Or, is it
          > to have Co-dependency upon the
          > Mahanta regardless of the outcome?
          >
          > HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
          > It is yet another name for the Law of
          > Karma."
          >
          > [Q: "How can I enjoy life when it is
          > going by so fast"]
          >
          > ME: WOW! I'm glad that Klemp (the
          > 14th Plane Mahanta) could give such
          > helpful advice to this 12 year old EKist!
          > Klemp answered his question so specifically
          > and with such spiritual insight! I'm sure
          > that HK's answer will comfort the boy.
          > Not!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Postekcon and All, Klemp tells this young Vahana, Begin to Shut-Down Group C. This grouping includes the occasional contacts of this, brain-washed
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 12, 2010
            Hello Postekcon and All,

            Klemp tells this young Vahana,
            "Begin to Shut-Down Group C."
            This grouping includes the
            "occasional contacts" of this,
            brain-washed and deluded,
            19 year old ECKist.

            However, is this the "spiritual
            message" to be sharing with
            the ECK Youth or with Vahanas
            in general? Shouldn't ECKists
            keep connections open to all
            people even though they don't
            often see or speak to them?
            Would Klemp's family, including
            his daughter and his three
            grandkids, end up in "Group C"
            according to his own criteria?
            I think so!

            Klemp is undermining those
            who want to maintain a
            Golden Heart and a line of
            communication with all Souls.
            Instead, Black Hearted Klemp
            places these Souls into categories
            (groups) without giving a valid
            criteria, as a guideline, for this
            EK Youth to follow. It's either an,
            arbitrary, A, B, or C grouping
            based upon the confused opinions
            of this 19 year old.
            Actually, this grouping (A,B,C)
            sort of resembles a caste
            system, and, as I said, there's
            no guidance via a detailed criteria
            for these divisions! Are some
            of those in "Group A" criminals?


            I wonder, does Klemp place
            ECKists into three categories
            (A,B,C groups) as well? Probably!
            What criteria would be used
            for each "group?" Then again,
            each Circle of Initiation is a
            "group" within the EK Initiation
            Caste System.


            Does Klemp have ECKists "grouped"
            (A, B, C) within each initiation?
            Do the RESAs "Group" chelas and H.I.s?
            Will the ESC show an ECKist their file?


            I'm thinking that HK (the Mahanta)
            does "group" ECKists since he seemed
            to be conveying his own grouping (A,B,C)
            method that he uses for Eckanakr! It
            seems Klemp has his chelas, and H.I.s,
            divided into "three groups" A, B, or C.
            Wouldn't this make one's Circle of
            Initiation, somewhat, irrelevant?

            And, after all, Klemp never suggests
            having this young ECKist place people
            into "Groups" that correspond to their
            consciousness, values, opinions, honesty
            or anything that's actually relevant to
            the positive qualities of friendship.

            Klemp is too petty, narcissistic, and
            oblivious to the "real" of present day
            life. Thus, he's unable to give pertinent
            advice and guidance to anyone.

            Prometheus



            postekcon wrote:

            A teen having problems because technology
            is advancing too fast!

            A teen complaining technology is interfering
            with their personal space!

            A teen writing assistance from an emr-ridden
            lem for 'help' organizing an 'inbox'!

            -No further comment! LOL!
            -Postekcon


            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Here's Klemp's 2nd (technology related)
            > Q & A from the 01/2010 Youth in ECK
            > Letter of Light.
            >
            > #2 of 3
            >
            > Q: "With technology consistently advancing
            > and people becoming more easily connected
            > through cell phones, the Internet, etc., the
            > expectations of these people using these
            > forms of communication are increasing.
            >
            > How can young Vahanas keep their personal
            > space?"
            >
            > --Elliot, age 19, Saskatchewan, Canada
            >
            > [My caps are added below]
            >
            > HK: "A sour fact of life is that we can't
            > always have our cake and eat it too.
            >
            > To enjoy peace of mind is largely in your
            > hands.
            >
            > Decide which contacts are Most Important
            > to you. Put these into Group A.
            >
            > The Sort-Of-Important ones go into
            > Group B.
            >
            > The rest belong to Group C, which
            > includes the Not-At-All contacts
            > AND the Occasional Ones.
            >
            > Begin to Shut Down Group C.
            >
            > For ECK contacts, can you Set Aside
            > a Certain Day to have ECKists reach
            > you? Tell your ECK friends the Situation.
            > They Should understand.
            >
            > Obviously, there is No Way to give you
            > an Easy, One-Size-Fits-All solution,
            > since conditions will change.
            >
            > An Overly Busy Life calls for Superb
            > Organization. It is all part of Spiritual
            > Unfoldment." --Harold
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Klemp once again uses the EK Principle of
            > the Threes (representing the Trinity) and
            > lists three "Questions for the Master."
            >
            > #1 of 3
            >
            > Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
            > How can I enjoy life when it is going
            > by so fast? Sam, age 12"
            >
            > HK: "Some say, time flies when you
            > are having fun.
            >
            > However, many today are having
            > no fun at all, because they are
            > overwhelmed by all there is to do.
            > Computers, TV, the Internet, and
            > other forms of communication and
            > entertainment have become commonplace."
            >
            > ME: That's a strange question for a kid
            > to ask. I wanted to grow up fast and had
            > set goals to accomplish. After Junior High
            > School I wanted to be in High School then
            > I wanted to be 16 so I could get my driver's
            > license etc, etc. Then I wanted to be 18
            > and leave home and go to college and travel.
            > Also, I had all kinds of fun at age 12 and
            > pretty much lived in the moment. Maybe
            > EK Youth are hampered by their nutty parents
            > and the Eckankar cult/church that promotes
            > Mahanta Co-dependency.
            >
            > HK: "Few people now take time to be
            > alone.
            >
            > To slow down time means to look at
            > what things eat up your time.
            >
            > Do you really wish to slow down time?
            > Then this is the moment to make some
            > hard choices. What are you willing to give
            > up?"
            >
            > ME: This is a 12 year old ECKist Harry's
            > speaking to. More than likely he's doing
            > his daily 20 minute contemplations and
            > is already taking "time to be alone!"
            > Maybe there's another reason this kid
            > doesn't want "time" to go by so fast. He
            > might not want to grow-up because that
            > would mean more grown-up responsibilities.
            > It could be that he's experiencing pressures
            > to get more involved with the ECK Youth
            > and become a Vahana, etc.
            >
            > HK: "No matter your answer, you will
            > learn something important about you."
            >
            > ME: What if his answer is to give up
            > his religion, thus, give up Eckankar?
            > Is that okay? Klemp says, "No matter
            > your answer," but is HK being truthful?
            > I doubt it!
            >
            > HK: "The spiritual principle at work
            > here is that everything has a price
            > tag hung on it."
            >
            > ME: I can see why Klemp's mind is
            > fixated upon money, but doesn't that
            > analogy just confuse the issue for
            > a 12 year old when you start out
            > saying "The spiritual principle at
            > work here..."
            >
            > HK: "In other words, what are you
            > willing to pay for what you want?"
            >
            > ME: Does the pitch of "coin and/or
            > service" come next or is that for
            > later when he gets older? Or, is it
            > to have Co-dependency upon the
            > Mahanta regardless of the outcome?
            >
            > HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
            > It is yet another name for the Law of
            > Karma."
            >
            > [Q: "How can I enjoy life when it is
            > going by so fast"]
            >
            > ME: WOW! I'm glad that Klemp (the
            > 14th Plane Mahanta) could give such
            > helpful advice to this 12 year old EKist!
            > Klemp answered his question so specifically
            > and with such spiritual insight! I'm sure
            > that HK's answer will comfort the boy.
            > Not!
            >
            > Prometheus
          • postekcon
            Good comment Prometheus. If the actual wording of the technology question is examined, it s clear this question was never composed by someone educated 21st
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 12, 2010
              Good comment Prometheus.

              If the actual wording of the technology question is examined, it's clear this question was never composed by someone educated 21st century, but by someone educated 20th century!

              Neither does the content of the question fit teen profiling! What teen is unable to operate gizmos to best advantage?

              In conclusion, this Q&A scenario is pure fiction!
              -Postekcon



              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Postekcon and All,
              >
              > Klemp tells this young Vahana,
              > "Begin to Shut-Down Group C."
              > This grouping includes the
              > "occasional contacts" of this,
              > brain-washed and deluded,
              > 19 year old ECKist.
              >
              > However, is this the "spiritual
              > message" to be sharing with
              > the ECK Youth or with Vahanas
              > in general? Shouldn't ECKists
              > keep connections open to all
              > people even though they don't
              > often see or speak to them?
              > Would Klemp's family, including
              > his daughter and his three
              > grandkids, end up in "Group C"
              > according to his own criteria?
              > I think so!
              >
              > Klemp is undermining those
              > who want to maintain a
              > Golden Heart and a line of
              > communication with all Souls.
              > Instead, Black Hearted Klemp
              > places these Souls into categories
              > (groups) without giving a valid
              > criteria, as a guideline, for this
              > EK Youth to follow. It's either an,
              > arbitrary, A, B, or C grouping
              > based upon the confused opinions
              > of this 19 year old.
              > Actually, this grouping (A,B,C)
              > sort of resembles a caste
              > system, and, as I said, there's
              > no guidance via a detailed criteria
              > for these divisions! Are some
              > of those in "Group A" criminals?
              >
              >
              > I wonder, does Klemp place
              > ECKists into three categories
              > (A,B,C groups) as well? Probably!
              > What criteria would be used
              > for each "group?" Then again,
              > each Circle of Initiation is a
              > "group" within the EK Initiation
              > Caste System.
              >
              >
              > Does Klemp have ECKists "grouped"
              > (A, B, C) within each initiation?
              > Do the RESAs "Group" chelas and H.I.s?
              > Will the ESC show an ECKist their file?
              >
              >
              > I'm thinking that HK (the Mahanta)
              > does "group" ECKists since he seemed
              > to be conveying his own grouping (A,B,C)
              > method that he uses for Eckanakr! It
              > seems Klemp has his chelas, and H.I.s,
              > divided into "three groups" A, B, or C.
              > Wouldn't this make one's Circle of
              > Initiation, somewhat, irrelevant?
              >
              > And, after all, Klemp never suggests
              > having this young ECKist place people
              > into "Groups" that correspond to their
              > consciousness, values, opinions, honesty
              > or anything that's actually relevant to
              > the positive qualities of friendship.
              >
              > Klemp is too petty, narcissistic, and
              > oblivious to the "real" of present day
              > life. Thus, he's unable to give pertinent
              > advice and guidance to anyone.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              >
              > postekcon wrote:
              >
              > A teen having problems because technology
              > is advancing too fast!
              >
              > A teen complaining technology is interfering
              > with their personal space!
              >
              > A teen writing assistance from an emr-ridden
              > lem for 'help' organizing an 'inbox'!
              >
              > -No further comment! LOL!
              > -Postekcon
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Here's Klemp's 2nd (technology related)
              > > Q & A from the 01/2010 Youth in ECK
              > > Letter of Light.
              > >
              > > #2 of 3
              > >
              > > Q: "With technology consistently advancing
              > > and people becoming more easily connected
              > > through cell phones, the Internet, etc., the
              > > expectations of these people using these
              > > forms of communication are increasing.
              > >
              > > How can young Vahanas keep their personal
              > > space?"
              > >
              > > --Elliot, age 19, Saskatchewan, Canada
              > >
              > > [My caps are added below]
              > >
              > > HK: "A sour fact of life is that we can't
              > > always have our cake and eat it too.
              > >
              > > To enjoy peace of mind is largely in your
              > > hands.
              > >
              > > Decide which contacts are Most Important
              > > to you. Put these into Group A.
              > >
              > > The Sort-Of-Important ones go into
              > > Group B.
              > >
              > > The rest belong to Group C, which
              > > includes the Not-At-All contacts
              > > AND the Occasional Ones.
              > >
              > > Begin to Shut Down Group C.
              > >
              > > For ECK contacts, can you Set Aside
              > > a Certain Day to have ECKists reach
              > > you? Tell your ECK friends the Situation.
              > > They Should understand.
              > >
              > > Obviously, there is No Way to give you
              > > an Easy, One-Size-Fits-All solution,
              > > since conditions will change.
              > >
              > > An Overly Busy Life calls for Superb
              > > Organization. It is all part of Spiritual
              > > Unfoldment." --Harold
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > >
              > > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Klemp once again uses the EK Principle of
              > > the Threes (representing the Trinity) and
              > > lists three "Questions for the Master."
              > >
              > > #1 of 3
              > >
              > > Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
              > > How can I enjoy life when it is going
              > > by so fast? Sam, age 12"
              > >
              > > HK: "Some say, time flies when you
              > > are having fun.
              > >
              > > However, many today are having
              > > no fun at all, because they are
              > > overwhelmed by all there is to do.
              > > Computers, TV, the Internet, and
              > > other forms of communication and
              > > entertainment have become commonplace."
              > >
              > > ME: That's a strange question for a kid
              > > to ask. I wanted to grow up fast and had
              > > set goals to accomplish. After Junior High
              > > School I wanted to be in High School then
              > > I wanted to be 16 so I could get my driver's
              > > license etc, etc. Then I wanted to be 18
              > > and leave home and go to college and travel.
              > > Also, I had all kinds of fun at age 12 and
              > > pretty much lived in the moment. Maybe
              > > EK Youth are hampered by their nutty parents
              > > and the Eckankar cult/church that promotes
              > > Mahanta Co-dependency.
              > >
              > > HK: "Few people now take time to be
              > > alone.
              > >
              > > To slow down time means to look at
              > > what things eat up your time.
              > >
              > > Do you really wish to slow down time?
              > > Then this is the moment to make some
              > > hard choices. What are you willing to give
              > > up?"
              > >
              > > ME: This is a 12 year old ECKist Harry's
              > > speaking to. More than likely he's doing
              > > his daily 20 minute contemplations and
              > > is already taking "time to be alone!"
              > > Maybe there's another reason this kid
              > > doesn't want "time" to go by so fast. He
              > > might not want to grow-up because that
              > > would mean more grown-up responsibilities.
              > > It could be that he's experiencing pressures
              > > to get more involved with the ECK Youth
              > > and become a Vahana, etc.
              > >
              > > HK: "No matter your answer, you will
              > > learn something important about you."
              > >
              > > ME: What if his answer is to give up
              > > his religion, thus, give up Eckankar?
              > > Is that okay? Klemp says, "No matter
              > > your answer," but is HK being truthful?
              > > I doubt it!
              > >
              > > HK: "The spiritual principle at work
              > > here is that everything has a price
              > > tag hung on it."
              > >
              > > ME: I can see why Klemp's mind is
              > > fixated upon money, but doesn't that
              > > analogy just confuse the issue for
              > > a 12 year old when you start out
              > > saying "The spiritual principle at
              > > work here..."
              > >
              > > HK: "In other words, what are you
              > > willing to pay for what you want?"
              > >
              > > ME: Does the pitch of "coin and/or
              > > service" come next or is that for
              > > later when he gets older? Or, is it
              > > to have Co-dependency upon the
              > > Mahanta regardless of the outcome?
              > >
              > > HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
              > > It is yet another name for the Law of
              > > Karma."
              > >
              > > [Q: "How can I enjoy life when it is
              > > going by so fast"]
              > >
              > > ME: WOW! I'm glad that Klemp (the
              > > 14th Plane Mahanta) could give such
              > > helpful advice to this 12 year old EKist!
              > > Klemp answered his question so specifically
              > > and with such spiritual insight! I'm sure
              > > that HK's answer will comfort the boy.
              > > Not!
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello All, Here s the last Q & A from the January 2010 Youth in ECK - Letter of Light by Harold John Klemp (HJK). However, since #3 has multiple questions and
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 13, 2010
                Hello All,
                Here's the last Q & A from the January 2010
                Youth in ECK - Letter of Light by Harold John
                Klemp (HJK). However, since #3 has multiple
                questions and answers it seems that Klemp
                couldn't maintain the "White" Magic of using
                the "Principle of the Threes."

                Notice, too, there is No Name listed for this
                person and that it sounds more like he's
                preaching, on a soapbox, against the U.S.
                military. Thus, he had no intention of joining
                the military and this was just a ruse in order
                to get his anti-U.S. message out there. Is
                this Klemp? He does use a lot of "BUTS!"
                No, I don't think it was Klemp, however,
                he definitely used Klemp to get his opinion
                out there.

                #3

                Q: "I am considering joining the military
                to earn my way in this world.

                1) BUT how can joining this kind of entity--
                one that, in essence, trains one to take the
                lives of others, subjugate and encroach on
                people and their property--lead to spiritual
                unfoldment?

                2) I understand the human right to defend
                what is held dear, BUT where lies the fine
                line between defense and encroachment?

                3) OR, more importantly, the line between
                spiritual advancement and spiritual deterioration?

                4) What real reason can one with a heart
                of gold have to pull a trigger in any scenario?

                It leaves me very conflicted."--A Pilot-in-
                Training


                ME: "Heart of gold?" Is he living in the Land
                of Oz? Apparently! And Klemp's the Wizard
                Behind the Curtain!

                Here're Klemp's Answers:


                HJK: "Other young ECKists thinking about
                signing up for military service may harbor
                the same reservations as you, especially
                pilots."

                ME: Why "especially pilots?" Pilots don't
                see the faces of the people or the aftermath
                of the violence. They are above it all and
                are removed from it. Klemp, hidden away
                and sitting on his lofty perch, is also removed
                from the reality of what's really taking place!

                HJK: 1) "Interview school counselors to learn
                what options are open to you. Do they include
                openings for candidates who rescue, rather
                than destroy, others?"

                ME: I don't think a "school counselor" can
                answer that question. One would have to
                approach a military recruiter with that question
                and, definitely, have it in writing and be
                listed as a Conscientious Objector. I would,
                also, have an attorney look over the agreement
                and be present at the signing. In case one
                didn't make it through "pilot training" at
                least with the "conscientious objector"
                clause would still be key in determining
                one's future assignment. Although, it won't
                get you out of basic training and qualifying
                on the target range.

                HJK: 2) "Also speak with military recruiters.
                What guarantees do they offer that you will
                actually end up with that sort of duty that
                you want? This applies to all branches of
                service."

                ME: That's why one needs to have it spelled
                out and have "conscientious objector" included
                in the agreement and have an attorney look
                it over and be present at signing! Recruiters
                can offer all kinds of "guarantees" but that
                doesn't mean that others, on up the chain-
                of-command, will honor those guarantees.
                "Promise them anything" is a common bait-
                and-switch tactic used by recruiters in order
                to make their numbers so that they can keep
                their cushy jobs. Klemp, of all people, can
                relate to that!

                HJK: 3) "Let's say, by some chance, you end
                up in an area that is not of your choosing.
                Take it as a golden opportunity to learn
                spiritual detachment. Look always to the
                Mahanta [HJK]."

                ME: See, this is why one has to have
                "conscientious objector" written into
                the recruitment agreement!

                isn't it funny, or typical, that Klemp threw
                in the "golden opportunity" comment since
                this person mentioned in question #4:
                "What real reason can one with a heart
                of gold have to pull a trigger in any scenario?

                Klemp doesn't do a very good job at
                answering specific questions. It's kind
                of a One Size Fits All approach.

                HJK: "No experience is ever lost, so
                seek out the good in all things and
                all people." [end]

                ME: And what's "good" about killing
                people? Sometimes it might be necessary
                but it's never good!

                Prometheus








                postekcon wrote:

                Re: Jan. 2010 - Youth in ECK Letter of Light - Q & A (2 of 3)


                Good comment Prometheus.

                If the actual wording of the technology question
                is examined, it's clear this question was never
                composed by someone educated 21st century,
                but by someone educated 20th century!

                Neither does the content of the question fit
                teen profiling! What teen is unable to operate
                gizmos to best advantage?

                In conclusion, this Q&A scenario is pure fiction!
                -Postekcon




                <prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello Postekcon and All,
                >
                > Klemp tells this young Vahana,
                > "Begin to Shut-Down Group C."
                > This grouping includes the
                > "occasional contacts" of this,
                > brain-washed and deluded,
                > 19 year old ECKist.
                >
                > However, is this the "spiritual
                > message" to be sharing with
                > the ECK Youth or with Vahanas
                > in general? Shouldn't ECKists
                > keep connections open to all
                > people even though they don't
                > often see or speak to them?
                > Would Klemp's family, including
                > his daughter and his three
                > grandkids, end up in "Group C"
                > according to his own criteria?
                > I think so!
                >
                > Klemp is undermining those
                > who want to maintain a
                > Golden Heart and a line of
                > communication with all Souls.
                > Instead, Black Hearted Klemp
                > places these Souls into categories
                > (groups) without giving a valid
                > criteria, as a guideline, for this
                > EK Youth to follow. It's either an,
                > arbitrary, A, B, or C grouping
                > based upon the confused opinions
                > of this 19 year old.
                > Actually, this grouping (A,B,C)
                > sort of resembles a caste
                > system, and, as I said, there's
                > no guidance via a detailed criteria
                > for these divisions! Are some
                > of those in "Group A" criminals?
                >
                >
                > I wonder, does Klemp place
                > ECKists into three categories
                > (A,B,C groups) as well? Probably!
                > What criteria would be used
                > for each "group?" Then again,
                > each Circle of Initiation is a
                > "group" within the EK Initiation
                > Caste System.
                >
                >
                > Does Klemp have ECKists "grouped"
                > (A, B, C) within each initiation?
                > Do the RESAs "Group" chelas and H.I.s?
                > Will the ESC show an ECKist their file?
                >
                >
                > I'm thinking that HK (the Mahanta)
                > does "group" ECKists since he seemed
                > to be conveying his own grouping (A,B,C)
                > method that he uses for Eckanakr! It
                > seems Klemp has his chelas, and H.I.s,
                > divided into "three groups" A, B, or C.
                > Wouldn't this make one's Circle of
                > Initiation, somewhat, irrelevant?
                >
                > And, after all, Klemp never suggests
                > having this young ECKist place people
                > into "Groups" that correspond to their
                > consciousness, values, opinions, honesty
                > or anything that's actually relevant to
                > the positive qualities of friendship.
                >
                > Klemp is too petty, narcissistic, and
                > oblivious to the "real" of present day
                > life. Thus, he's unable to give pertinent
                > advice and guidance to anyone.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                >
                > postekcon wrote:
                >
                > A teen having problems because technology
                > is advancing too fast!
                >
                > A teen complaining technology is interfering
                > with their personal space!
                >
                > A teen writing assistance from an emr-ridden
                > lem for 'help' organizing an 'inbox'!
                >
                > -No further comment! LOL!
                > -Postekcon
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Here's Klemp's 2nd (technology related)
                > > Q & A from the 01/2010 Youth in ECK
                > > Letter of Light.
                > >
                > > #2 of 3
                > >
                > > Q: "With technology consistently advancing
                > > and people becoming more easily connected
                > > through cell phones, the Internet, etc., the
                > > expectations of these people using these
                > > forms of communication are increasing.
                > >
                > > How can young Vahanas keep their personal
                > > space?"
                > >
                > > --Elliot, age 19, Saskatchewan, Canada
                > >
                > > [My caps are added below]
                > >
                > > HK: "A sour fact of life is that we can't
                > > always have our cake and eat it too.
                > >
                > > To enjoy peace of mind is largely in your
                > > hands.
                > >
                > > Decide which contacts are Most Important
                > > to you. Put these into Group A.
                > >
                > > The Sort-Of-Important ones go into
                > > Group B.
                > >
                > > The rest belong to Group C, which
                > > includes the Not-At-All contacts
                > > AND the Occasional Ones.
                > >
                > > Begin to Shut Down Group C.
                > >
                > > For ECK contacts, can you Set Aside
                > > a Certain Day to have ECKists reach
                > > you? Tell your ECK friends the Situation.
                > > They Should understand.
                > >
                > > Obviously, there is No Way to give you
                > > an Easy, One-Size-Fits-All solution,
                > > since conditions will change.
                > >
                > > An Overly Busy Life calls for Superb
                > > Organization. It is all part of Spiritual
                > > Unfoldment." --Harold
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Klemp once again uses the EK Principle of
                > > the Threes (representing the Trinity) and
                > > lists three "Questions for the Master."
                > >
                > > #1 of 3
                > >
                > > Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
                > > How can I enjoy life when it is going
                > > by so fast? Sam, age 12"
                > >
                > > HK: "Some say, time flies when you
                > > are having fun.
                > >
                > > However, many today are having
                > > no fun at all, because they are
                > > overwhelmed by all there is to do.
                > > Computers, TV, the Internet, and
                > > other forms of communication and
                > > entertainment have become commonplace."
                > >
                > > ME: That's a strange question for a kid
                > > to ask. I wanted to grow up fast and had
                > > set goals to accomplish. After Junior High
                > > School I wanted to be in High School then
                > > I wanted to be 16 so I could get my driver's
                > > license etc, etc. Then I wanted to be 18
                > > and leave home and go to college and travel.
                > > Also, I had all kinds of fun at age 12 and
                > > pretty much lived in the moment. Maybe
                > > EK Youth are hampered by their nutty parents
                > > and the Eckankar cult/church that promotes
                > > Mahanta Co-dependency.
                > >
                > > HK: "Few people now take time to be
                > > alone.
                > >
                > > To slow down time means to look at
                > > what things eat up your time.
                > >
                > > Do you really wish to slow down time?
                > > Then this is the moment to make some
                > > hard choices. What are you willing to give
                > > up?"
                > >
                > > ME: This is a 12 year old ECKist Harry's
                > > speaking to. More than likely he's doing
                > > his daily 20 minute contemplations and
                > > is already taking "time to be alone!"
                > > Maybe there's another reason this kid
                > > doesn't want "time" to go by so fast. He
                > > might not want to grow-up because that
                > > would mean more grown-up responsibilities.
                > > It could be that he's experiencing pressures
                > > to get more involved with the ECK Youth
                > > and become a Vahana, etc.
                > >
                > > HK: "No matter your answer, you will
                > > learn something important about you."
                > >
                > > ME: What if his answer is to give up
                > > his religion, thus, give up Eckankar?
                > > Is that okay? Klemp says, "No matter
                > > your answer," but is HK being truthful?
                > > I doubt it!
                > >
                > > HK: "The spiritual principle at work
                > > here is that everything has a price
                > > tag hung on it."
                > >
                > > ME: I can see why Klemp's mind is
                > > fixated upon money, but doesn't that
                > > analogy just confuse the issue for
                > > a 12 year old when you start out
                > > saying "The spiritual principle at
                > > work here..."
                > >
                > > HK: "In other words, what are you
                > > willing to pay for what you want?"
                > >
                > > ME: Does the pitch of "coin and/or
                > > service" come next or is that for
                > > later when he gets older? Or, is it
                > > to have Co-dependency upon the
                > > Mahanta regardless of the outcome?
                > >
                > > HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
                > > It is yet another name for the Law of
                > > Karma."
                > >
                > > [Q: "How can I enjoy life when it is
                > > going by so fast"]
                > >
                > > ME: WOW! I'm glad that Klemp (the
                > > 14th Plane Mahanta) could give such
                > > helpful advice to this 12 year old EKist!
                > > Klemp answered his question so specifically
                > > and with such spiritual insight! I'm sure
                > > that HK's answer will comfort the boy.
                > > Not!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
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