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Re: Jan. 2010 - Youth in ECK Letter of Light - Q & A (1 of 3)

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  • Zoey
    For the longest time I kept believing that Klemp s words, advice, etc were over-my-head. The truth is, he makes no sense. Not one damn bit. zoey
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 10, 2010
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      For the longest time I kept believing that Klemp's words, advice, etc were over-my-head. The truth is, he makes no sense. Not one damn bit.

      zoey
      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Klemp once again uses the EK Principle of
      > the Threes (representing the Trinity) and
      > lists three "Questions for the Master."
      >
      > Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
      > How can I enjoy life when it is going
      > by so fast? Sam, age 12"
      >
      > HK: "Some say, time flies when you
      > are having fun.
      >
      > However, many today are having
      > no fun at all, because they are
      > overwhelmed by all there is to do.
      > Computers, TV, the Internet, and
      > other forms of communication and
      > entertainment have become commonplace."
      >
      > ME: That's a strange question for a kid
      > to ask. I wanted to grow up fast and had
      > set goals to accomplish. After Junior High
      > School I wanted to be in High School then
      > I wanted to be 16 so I could get my driver's
      > license etc, etc. Then I wanted to be 18
      > and leave home and go to college and travel.
      > Also, I had all kinds of fun at age 12 and
      > pretty much lived in the moment. Maybe
      > EK Youth are hampered by their nutty parents
      > and the Eckankar cult/church that promotes
      > Mahanta Co-dependency.
      >
      > HK: "Few people now take time to be
      > alone.
      >
      > To slow down time means to look at
      > what things eat up your time.
      >
      > Do you really wish to slow down time?
      > Then this is the moment to make some
      > hard choices. What are you willing to give
      > up?"
      >
      > ME: This is a 12 year old ECKist Harry's
      > speaking to. More than likely he's doing
      > his daily 20 minute contemplations and
      > is already taking "time to be alone!"
      > Maybe there's another reason this kid
      > doesn't want "time" to go by so fast. He
      > might not want to grow-up because that
      > would mean more grown-up responsibilities.
      > It could be that he's experiencing pressures
      > to get more involved with the ECK Youth
      > and become a Vahana, etc.
      >
      > HK: "No matter your answer, you will
      > learn something important about you."
      >
      > ME: What if his answer is to give up
      > his religion, thus, give up Eckankar?
      > Is that okay? Klemp says, "No matter
      > your answer," but is HK being truthful?
      > I doubt it!
      >
      > HK: "The spiritual principle at work
      > here is that everything has a price
      > tag hung on it."
      >
      > ME: I can see why Klemp's mind is
      > fixated upon money, but doesn't that
      > analogy just confuse the issue for
      > a 12 year old when you start out
      > saying "The spiritual principle at
      > work here..."
      >
      > HK: "In other words, what are you
      > willing to pay for what you want?"
      >
      > ME: Does the pitch of "coin and/or
      > service" come next or is that for
      > later when he gets older? Or, is it
      > to have Co-dependency upon the
      > Mahanta regardless of the outcome?
      >
      > HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
      > It is yet another name for the Law of
      > Karma."
      >
      > [Q: "How can I enjoy life when it is
      > going by so fast"]
      >
      > ME: WOW! I'm glad that Klemp (the
      > 14th Plane Mahanta) could give such
      > helpful advice to this 12 year old EKist!
      > Klemp answered his question so specifically
      > and with such spiritual insight! I'm sure
      > that HK's answer will comfort the boy.
      > Not!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Here s Klemp s 2nd (technology related) Q & A from the 01/2010 Youth in ECK Letter of Light. #2 of 3 Q: With technology consistently advancing and people
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 11, 2010
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        Here's Klemp's 2nd (technology related)
        Q & A from the 01/2010 Youth in ECK
        Letter of Light.

        #2 of 3

        Q: "With technology consistently advancing
        and people becoming more easily connected
        through cell phones, the Internet, etc., the
        expectations of these people using these
        forms of communication are increasing.

        How can young Vahanas keep their personal
        space?"

        --Elliot, age 19, Saskatchewan, Canada

        [My caps are added below]

        HK: "A sour fact of life is that we can't
        always have our cake and eat it too.

        To enjoy peace of mind is largely in your
        hands.

        Decide which contacts are Most Important
        to you. Put these into Group A.

        The Sort-Of-Important ones go into
        Group B.

        The rest belong to Group C, which
        includes the Not-At-All contacts
        AND the Occasional Ones.

        Begin to Shut Down Group C.

        For ECK contacts, can you Set Aside
        a Certain Day to have ECKists reach
        you? Tell your ECK friends the Situation.
        They Should understand.

        Obviously, there is No Way to give you
        an Easy, One-Size-Fits-All solution,
        since conditions will change.

        An Overly Busy Life calls for Superb
        Organization. It is all part of Spiritual
        Unfoldment." --Harold

        Prometheus


        prometheus wrote:

        Klemp once again uses the EK Principle of
        the Threes (representing the Trinity) and
        lists three "Questions for the Master."

        #1 of 3

        Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
        How can I enjoy life when it is going
        by so fast? Sam, age 12"

        HK: "Some say, time flies when you
        are having fun.

        However, many today are having
        no fun at all, because they are
        overwhelmed by all there is to do.
        Computers, TV, the Internet, and
        other forms of communication and
        entertainment have become commonplace."

        ME: That's a strange question for a kid
        to ask. I wanted to grow up fast and had
        set goals to accomplish. After Junior High
        School I wanted to be in High School then
        I wanted to be 16 so I could get my driver's
        license etc, etc. Then I wanted to be 18
        and leave home and go to college and travel.
        Also, I had all kinds of fun at age 12 and
        pretty much lived in the moment. Maybe
        EK Youth are hampered by their nutty parents
        and the Eckankar cult/church that promotes
        Mahanta Co-dependency.

        HK: "Few people now take time to be
        alone.

        To slow down time means to look at
        what things eat up your time.

        Do you really wish to slow down time?
        Then this is the moment to make some
        hard choices. What are you willing to give
        up?"

        ME: This is a 12 year old ECKist Harry's
        speaking to. More than likely he's doing
        his daily 20 minute contemplations and
        is already taking "time to be alone!"
        Maybe there's another reason this kid
        doesn't want "time" to go by so fast. He
        might not want to grow-up because that
        would mean more grown-up responsibilities.
        It could be that he's experiencing pressures
        to get more involved with the ECK Youth
        and become a Vahana, etc.

        HK: "No matter your answer, you will
        learn something important about you."

        ME: What if his answer is to give up
        his religion, thus, give up Eckankar?
        Is that okay? Klemp says, "No matter
        your answer," but is HK being truthful?
        I doubt it!

        HK: "The spiritual principle at work
        here is that everything has a price
        tag hung on it."

        ME: I can see why Klemp's mind is
        fixated upon money, but doesn't that
        analogy just confuse the issue for
        a 12 year old when you start out
        saying "The spiritual principle at
        work here..."

        HK: "In other words, what are you
        willing to pay for what you want?"

        ME: Does the pitch of "coin and/or
        service" come next or is that for
        later when he gets older? Or, is it
        to have Co-dependency upon the
        Mahanta regardless of the outcome?

        HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
        It is yet another name for the Law of
        Karma."

        [Q: "How can I enjoy life when it is
        going by so fast"]

        ME: WOW! I'm glad that Klemp (the
        14th Plane Mahanta) could give such
        helpful advice to this 12 year old EKist!
        Klemp answered his question so specifically
        and with such spiritual insight! I'm sure
        that HK's answer will comfort the boy.
        Not!

        Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Jonathan and All, I agree with your observations. However, ECKist s are taught that Klemp (the Mahanta) is All Knowing, therefore, this qualifies him to
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 11, 2010
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          Hello Jonathan and All,
          I agree with your observations. However,
          ECKist's are taught that Klemp (the Mahanta)
          is All Knowing, therefore, this qualifies him
          to "know" all about this kid's situation...
          so why does he need to have snail-mail
          Q & A?

          Unfortunately, most ECKists do think
          that Klemp's message is the ultimate
          source of truth, and will never question
          or analyze the content and worth of his
          words. The truth is, Klemp isn't the
          original source for anything he's ever
          written or said!

          Klemp is living in the past, thus, his
          slow-down and smell-the-coffee/flowers
          response will always seem apropos.
          And yet there is some truth there... but
          Klemp is merely repeating what others
          (non-ECK Masters) have observed.

          However, IMO, gaming can be meditative/
          contemplative technique. Gaming and
          texting etc. are active (non-drug) distractions
          from the insecurities and anxieties that
          the youth experience in this fast-moving
          world. These can be seen as "physically active"
          (versus physically inactive) techniques for
          meditation/contemplation. BTW-IMO,
          fishing can also be a "physically active"
          meditation/contemplation technique.
          Anything can stimulate a greater awareness,
          although, and once again, this is where
          Balance Is Key.

          It's interesting that Klemp mentions
          "COMPUTERS" and the "INTERNET"
          (negatively) in his Answer to question
          #1 and in the very next Question (#2)
          the INTERNET is mentioned again!

          Yes, Klemp is off-the-mark when he
          states "many today are having no fun
          at all, because they are overwhelmed"
          due to "Computers, TV, the Internet."
          I'd say that these people ARE having
          fun! Klemp's an old butt-head! Besides,
          people are communicating more and
          more via gaming and Facebook, Twitter,
          etc.! This is what Klemp doesn't like...
          he's losing control over the EK Youth,
          thus, his use of Fear Tactics to scare
          them back on-track or to keep them
          from using critical thinking and leaving
          the cult/church.


          Prometheus


          jonathan wrote:

          The kid's question to Klemp was:

          Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
          How can I enjoy life when it is going
          by so fast? Sam, age 12"

          Me (Jonathan) First of all, I really have no idea exactly what this kid is
          talking about. I would need more information from him before I could give him an
          intelligent answer. Probably a three minute conversation with him would be
          enough since I am fairly intuitive. But that doesn't seem to bother Klemp; he
          eventually launches into an entire Eckankar discourse which I am pretty certain
          would just overwhelm and confuse the average 12-year old.

          But I do like Klemp's comments about how there are too many of what I call
          "distractions" such as TV, video games, etc. But I think that it is more simple
          than that even. Over the past ten years or more, I have noticed that American
          kids always have to do be doing "something." They have to be playing sports,
          watching TV, going to a movie, going fishing. They have absolutely no tolerance
          for spending even five minutes with their own thoughts, absent of external
          input. When the economic crisis hit the United States a little over a year ago I
          predicted that it would be good for American families because the family members
          would be forced to spend more time interacting with each other instead of doing
          "stuff." Some have said that my prediction was correct. So I feel that Klemp is
          onto something in this regard, but whether it actually applies to this kid is
          something I really don't know. It seems like Klemp may have just used the kid's
          question as an excuse to talk about something that he wanted to talk about.

          The criticism I have of Klemp's answer is that, as I read it, I was bothered by
          the following statements:

          HK: "The spiritual principle at work
          here is that everything has a price
          tag hung on it."

          HK: "In other words, what are you
          willing to pay for what you want?"

          HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
          It is yet another name for the Law of
          Karma."

          It seems like Klemp always gets around to having a condescending and judgmental
          attitude toward people. When talking to this 12-year old, he kinda reminds me of
          a Marine drill sergeant talking to new recruits: "What do you lame #&*%# really
          want? Are you deserving? What are you willing to pay to be a Marine?" In other
          words, Klemp always seems to look down on his followers as a bunch of
          do-nothings who are not living up to his expectations. Then at the end of
          Klemp's answer he even throws in the "Law of Karma" seemingly as a scare tactic.

          It just doesn't seem to me that Klemp is very love-based. And it seems to me
          that there must be a better way for someone who claims to be a spiritual master
          to motivate people spiritually. Toward the end of Klemp's "answer" it turned
          into more of a condescending lecture/scare tactic. I am questioning how much
          real value that is to a 12-year old. I think it would have been better to
          encourage the kid to be in tune with Spirit.

          One more thought. I wonder how many parents want their kids to be busy all the
          time so that they don't have to spend time with them. Putting your kids in front
          of a TV set when they are little in order to babysit them is probably the start
          of this whole pattern.


          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Klemp once again uses the EK Principle of
          > the Threes (representing the Trinity) and
          > lists three "Questions for the Master."
          >
          > Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
          > How can I enjoy life when it is going
          > by so fast? Sam, age 12"
          >
          > HK: "Some say, time flies when you
          > are having fun.
          >
          > However, many today are having
          > no fun at all, because they are
          > overwhelmed by all there is to do.
          > Computers, TV, the Internet, and
          > other forms of communication and
          > entertainment have become commonplace."
          >
          > ME: That's a strange question for a kid
          > to ask. I wanted to grow up fast and had
          > set goals to accomplish. After Junior High
          > School I wanted to be in High School then
          > I wanted to be 16 so I could get my driver's
          > license etc, etc. Then I wanted to be 18
          > and leave home and go to college and travel.
          > Also, I had all kinds of fun at age 12 and
          > pretty much lived in the moment. Maybe
          > EK Youth are hampered by their nutty parents
          > and the Eckankar cult/church that promotes
          > Mahanta Co-dependency.
          >
          > HK: "Few people now take time to be
          > alone.
          >
          > To slow down time means to look at
          > what things eat up your time.
          >
          > Do you really wish to slow down time?
          > Then this is the moment to make some
          > hard choices. What are you willing to give
          > up?"
          >
          > ME: This is a 12 year old ECKist Harry's
          > speaking to. More than likely he's doing
          > his daily 20 minute contemplations and
          > is already taking "time to be alone!"
          > Maybe there's another reason this kid
          > doesn't want "time" to go by so fast. He
          > might not want to grow-up because that
          > would mean more grown-up responsibilities.
          > It could be that he's experiencing pressures
          > to get more involved with the ECK Youth
          > and become a Vahana, etc.
          >
          > HK: "No matter your answer, you will
          > learn something important about you."
          >
          > ME: What if his answer is to give up
          > his religion, thus, give up Eckankar?
          > Is that okay? Klemp says, "No matter
          > your answer," but is HK being truthful?
          > I doubt it!
          >
          > HK: "The spiritual principle at work
          > here is that everything has a price
          > tag hung on it."
          >
          > ME: I can see why Klemp's mind is
          > fixated upon money, but doesn't that
          > analogy just confuse the issue for
          > a 12 year old when you start out
          > saying "The spiritual principle at
          > work here..."
          >
          > HK: "In other words, what are you
          > willing to pay for what you want?"
          >
          > ME: Does the pitch of "coin and/or
          > service" come next or is that for
          > later when he gets older? Or, is it
          > to have Co-dependency upon the
          > Mahanta regardless of the outcome?
          >
          > HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
          > It is yet another name for the Law of
          > Karma."
          >
          > [Q: "How can I enjoy life when it is
          > going by so fast"]
          >
          > ME: WOW! I'm glad that Klemp (the
          > 14th Plane Mahanta) could give such
          > helpful advice to this 12 year old EKist!
          > Klemp answered his question so specifically
          > and with such spiritual insight! I'm sure
          > that HK's answer will comfort the boy.
          > Not!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
        • postekcon
          A teen having problems because technology is advancing too fast! A teen complaining technology is interfering with their personal space! A teen writing
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 12, 2010
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            A teen having problems because technology is advancing too fast!
            A teen complaining technology is interfering with their personal space!
            A teen writing assistance from an emr-ridden lem for 'help' organizing an 'inbox'!

            -No further comment! LOL!
            -Postekcon


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Here's Klemp's 2nd (technology related)
            > Q & A from the 01/2010 Youth in ECK
            > Letter of Light.
            >
            > #2 of 3
            >
            > Q: "With technology consistently advancing
            > and people becoming more easily connected
            > through cell phones, the Internet, etc., the
            > expectations of these people using these
            > forms of communication are increasing.
            >
            > How can young Vahanas keep their personal
            > space?"
            >
            > --Elliot, age 19, Saskatchewan, Canada
            >
            > [My caps are added below]
            >
            > HK: "A sour fact of life is that we can't
            > always have our cake and eat it too.
            >
            > To enjoy peace of mind is largely in your
            > hands.
            >
            > Decide which contacts are Most Important
            > to you. Put these into Group A.
            >
            > The Sort-Of-Important ones go into
            > Group B.
            >
            > The rest belong to Group C, which
            > includes the Not-At-All contacts
            > AND the Occasional Ones.
            >
            > Begin to Shut Down Group C.
            >
            > For ECK contacts, can you Set Aside
            > a Certain Day to have ECKists reach
            > you? Tell your ECK friends the Situation.
            > They Should understand.
            >
            > Obviously, there is No Way to give you
            > an Easy, One-Size-Fits-All solution,
            > since conditions will change.
            >
            > An Overly Busy Life calls for Superb
            > Organization. It is all part of Spiritual
            > Unfoldment." --Harold
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Klemp once again uses the EK Principle of
            > the Threes (representing the Trinity) and
            > lists three "Questions for the Master."
            >
            > #1 of 3
            >
            > Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
            > How can I enjoy life when it is going
            > by so fast? Sam, age 12"
            >
            > HK: "Some say, time flies when you
            > are having fun.
            >
            > However, many today are having
            > no fun at all, because they are
            > overwhelmed by all there is to do.
            > Computers, TV, the Internet, and
            > other forms of communication and
            > entertainment have become commonplace."
            >
            > ME: That's a strange question for a kid
            > to ask. I wanted to grow up fast and had
            > set goals to accomplish. After Junior High
            > School I wanted to be in High School then
            > I wanted to be 16 so I could get my driver's
            > license etc, etc. Then I wanted to be 18
            > and leave home and go to college and travel.
            > Also, I had all kinds of fun at age 12 and
            > pretty much lived in the moment. Maybe
            > EK Youth are hampered by their nutty parents
            > and the Eckankar cult/church that promotes
            > Mahanta Co-dependency.
            >
            > HK: "Few people now take time to be
            > alone.
            >
            > To slow down time means to look at
            > what things eat up your time.
            >
            > Do you really wish to slow down time?
            > Then this is the moment to make some
            > hard choices. What are you willing to give
            > up?"
            >
            > ME: This is a 12 year old ECKist Harry's
            > speaking to. More than likely he's doing
            > his daily 20 minute contemplations and
            > is already taking "time to be alone!"
            > Maybe there's another reason this kid
            > doesn't want "time" to go by so fast. He
            > might not want to grow-up because that
            > would mean more grown-up responsibilities.
            > It could be that he's experiencing pressures
            > to get more involved with the ECK Youth
            > and become a Vahana, etc.
            >
            > HK: "No matter your answer, you will
            > learn something important about you."
            >
            > ME: What if his answer is to give up
            > his religion, thus, give up Eckankar?
            > Is that okay? Klemp says, "No matter
            > your answer," but is HK being truthful?
            > I doubt it!
            >
            > HK: "The spiritual principle at work
            > here is that everything has a price
            > tag hung on it."
            >
            > ME: I can see why Klemp's mind is
            > fixated upon money, but doesn't that
            > analogy just confuse the issue for
            > a 12 year old when you start out
            > saying "The spiritual principle at
            > work here..."
            >
            > HK: "In other words, what are you
            > willing to pay for what you want?"
            >
            > ME: Does the pitch of "coin and/or
            > service" come next or is that for
            > later when he gets older? Or, is it
            > to have Co-dependency upon the
            > Mahanta regardless of the outcome?
            >
            > HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
            > It is yet another name for the Law of
            > Karma."
            >
            > [Q: "How can I enjoy life when it is
            > going by so fast"]
            >
            > ME: WOW! I'm glad that Klemp (the
            > 14th Plane Mahanta) could give such
            > helpful advice to this 12 year old EKist!
            > Klemp answered his question so specifically
            > and with such spiritual insight! I'm sure
            > that HK's answer will comfort the boy.
            > Not!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Postekcon and All, Klemp tells this young Vahana, Begin to Shut-Down Group C. This grouping includes the occasional contacts of this, brain-washed
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 12, 2010
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              Hello Postekcon and All,

              Klemp tells this young Vahana,
              "Begin to Shut-Down Group C."
              This grouping includes the
              "occasional contacts" of this,
              brain-washed and deluded,
              19 year old ECKist.

              However, is this the "spiritual
              message" to be sharing with
              the ECK Youth or with Vahanas
              in general? Shouldn't ECKists
              keep connections open to all
              people even though they don't
              often see or speak to them?
              Would Klemp's family, including
              his daughter and his three
              grandkids, end up in "Group C"
              according to his own criteria?
              I think so!

              Klemp is undermining those
              who want to maintain a
              Golden Heart and a line of
              communication with all Souls.
              Instead, Black Hearted Klemp
              places these Souls into categories
              (groups) without giving a valid
              criteria, as a guideline, for this
              EK Youth to follow. It's either an,
              arbitrary, A, B, or C grouping
              based upon the confused opinions
              of this 19 year old.
              Actually, this grouping (A,B,C)
              sort of resembles a caste
              system, and, as I said, there's
              no guidance via a detailed criteria
              for these divisions! Are some
              of those in "Group A" criminals?


              I wonder, does Klemp place
              ECKists into three categories
              (A,B,C groups) as well? Probably!
              What criteria would be used
              for each "group?" Then again,
              each Circle of Initiation is a
              "group" within the EK Initiation
              Caste System.


              Does Klemp have ECKists "grouped"
              (A, B, C) within each initiation?
              Do the RESAs "Group" chelas and H.I.s?
              Will the ESC show an ECKist their file?


              I'm thinking that HK (the Mahanta)
              does "group" ECKists since he seemed
              to be conveying his own grouping (A,B,C)
              method that he uses for Eckanakr! It
              seems Klemp has his chelas, and H.I.s,
              divided into "three groups" A, B, or C.
              Wouldn't this make one's Circle of
              Initiation, somewhat, irrelevant?

              And, after all, Klemp never suggests
              having this young ECKist place people
              into "Groups" that correspond to their
              consciousness, values, opinions, honesty
              or anything that's actually relevant to
              the positive qualities of friendship.

              Klemp is too petty, narcissistic, and
              oblivious to the "real" of present day
              life. Thus, he's unable to give pertinent
              advice and guidance to anyone.

              Prometheus



              postekcon wrote:

              A teen having problems because technology
              is advancing too fast!

              A teen complaining technology is interfering
              with their personal space!

              A teen writing assistance from an emr-ridden
              lem for 'help' organizing an 'inbox'!

              -No further comment! LOL!
              -Postekcon


              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Here's Klemp's 2nd (technology related)
              > Q & A from the 01/2010 Youth in ECK
              > Letter of Light.
              >
              > #2 of 3
              >
              > Q: "With technology consistently advancing
              > and people becoming more easily connected
              > through cell phones, the Internet, etc., the
              > expectations of these people using these
              > forms of communication are increasing.
              >
              > How can young Vahanas keep their personal
              > space?"
              >
              > --Elliot, age 19, Saskatchewan, Canada
              >
              > [My caps are added below]
              >
              > HK: "A sour fact of life is that we can't
              > always have our cake and eat it too.
              >
              > To enjoy peace of mind is largely in your
              > hands.
              >
              > Decide which contacts are Most Important
              > to you. Put these into Group A.
              >
              > The Sort-Of-Important ones go into
              > Group B.
              >
              > The rest belong to Group C, which
              > includes the Not-At-All contacts
              > AND the Occasional Ones.
              >
              > Begin to Shut Down Group C.
              >
              > For ECK contacts, can you Set Aside
              > a Certain Day to have ECKists reach
              > you? Tell your ECK friends the Situation.
              > They Should understand.
              >
              > Obviously, there is No Way to give you
              > an Easy, One-Size-Fits-All solution,
              > since conditions will change.
              >
              > An Overly Busy Life calls for Superb
              > Organization. It is all part of Spiritual
              > Unfoldment." --Harold
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Klemp once again uses the EK Principle of
              > the Threes (representing the Trinity) and
              > lists three "Questions for the Master."
              >
              > #1 of 3
              >
              > Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
              > How can I enjoy life when it is going
              > by so fast? Sam, age 12"
              >
              > HK: "Some say, time flies when you
              > are having fun.
              >
              > However, many today are having
              > no fun at all, because they are
              > overwhelmed by all there is to do.
              > Computers, TV, the Internet, and
              > other forms of communication and
              > entertainment have become commonplace."
              >
              > ME: That's a strange question for a kid
              > to ask. I wanted to grow up fast and had
              > set goals to accomplish. After Junior High
              > School I wanted to be in High School then
              > I wanted to be 16 so I could get my driver's
              > license etc, etc. Then I wanted to be 18
              > and leave home and go to college and travel.
              > Also, I had all kinds of fun at age 12 and
              > pretty much lived in the moment. Maybe
              > EK Youth are hampered by their nutty parents
              > and the Eckankar cult/church that promotes
              > Mahanta Co-dependency.
              >
              > HK: "Few people now take time to be
              > alone.
              >
              > To slow down time means to look at
              > what things eat up your time.
              >
              > Do you really wish to slow down time?
              > Then this is the moment to make some
              > hard choices. What are you willing to give
              > up?"
              >
              > ME: This is a 12 year old ECKist Harry's
              > speaking to. More than likely he's doing
              > his daily 20 minute contemplations and
              > is already taking "time to be alone!"
              > Maybe there's another reason this kid
              > doesn't want "time" to go by so fast. He
              > might not want to grow-up because that
              > would mean more grown-up responsibilities.
              > It could be that he's experiencing pressures
              > to get more involved with the ECK Youth
              > and become a Vahana, etc.
              >
              > HK: "No matter your answer, you will
              > learn something important about you."
              >
              > ME: What if his answer is to give up
              > his religion, thus, give up Eckankar?
              > Is that okay? Klemp says, "No matter
              > your answer," but is HK being truthful?
              > I doubt it!
              >
              > HK: "The spiritual principle at work
              > here is that everything has a price
              > tag hung on it."
              >
              > ME: I can see why Klemp's mind is
              > fixated upon money, but doesn't that
              > analogy just confuse the issue for
              > a 12 year old when you start out
              > saying "The spiritual principle at
              > work here..."
              >
              > HK: "In other words, what are you
              > willing to pay for what you want?"
              >
              > ME: Does the pitch of "coin and/or
              > service" come next or is that for
              > later when he gets older? Or, is it
              > to have Co-dependency upon the
              > Mahanta regardless of the outcome?
              >
              > HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
              > It is yet another name for the Law of
              > Karma."
              >
              > [Q: "How can I enjoy life when it is
              > going by so fast"]
              >
              > ME: WOW! I'm glad that Klemp (the
              > 14th Plane Mahanta) could give such
              > helpful advice to this 12 year old EKist!
              > Klemp answered his question so specifically
              > and with such spiritual insight! I'm sure
              > that HK's answer will comfort the boy.
              > Not!
              >
              > Prometheus
            • postekcon
              Good comment Prometheus. If the actual wording of the technology question is examined, it s clear this question was never composed by someone educated 21st
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 12, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Good comment Prometheus.

                If the actual wording of the technology question is examined, it's clear this question was never composed by someone educated 21st century, but by someone educated 20th century!

                Neither does the content of the question fit teen profiling! What teen is unable to operate gizmos to best advantage?

                In conclusion, this Q&A scenario is pure fiction!
                -Postekcon



                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Postekcon and All,
                >
                > Klemp tells this young Vahana,
                > "Begin to Shut-Down Group C."
                > This grouping includes the
                > "occasional contacts" of this,
                > brain-washed and deluded,
                > 19 year old ECKist.
                >
                > However, is this the "spiritual
                > message" to be sharing with
                > the ECK Youth or with Vahanas
                > in general? Shouldn't ECKists
                > keep connections open to all
                > people even though they don't
                > often see or speak to them?
                > Would Klemp's family, including
                > his daughter and his three
                > grandkids, end up in "Group C"
                > according to his own criteria?
                > I think so!
                >
                > Klemp is undermining those
                > who want to maintain a
                > Golden Heart and a line of
                > communication with all Souls.
                > Instead, Black Hearted Klemp
                > places these Souls into categories
                > (groups) without giving a valid
                > criteria, as a guideline, for this
                > EK Youth to follow. It's either an,
                > arbitrary, A, B, or C grouping
                > based upon the confused opinions
                > of this 19 year old.
                > Actually, this grouping (A,B,C)
                > sort of resembles a caste
                > system, and, as I said, there's
                > no guidance via a detailed criteria
                > for these divisions! Are some
                > of those in "Group A" criminals?
                >
                >
                > I wonder, does Klemp place
                > ECKists into three categories
                > (A,B,C groups) as well? Probably!
                > What criteria would be used
                > for each "group?" Then again,
                > each Circle of Initiation is a
                > "group" within the EK Initiation
                > Caste System.
                >
                >
                > Does Klemp have ECKists "grouped"
                > (A, B, C) within each initiation?
                > Do the RESAs "Group" chelas and H.I.s?
                > Will the ESC show an ECKist their file?
                >
                >
                > I'm thinking that HK (the Mahanta)
                > does "group" ECKists since he seemed
                > to be conveying his own grouping (A,B,C)
                > method that he uses for Eckanakr! It
                > seems Klemp has his chelas, and H.I.s,
                > divided into "three groups" A, B, or C.
                > Wouldn't this make one's Circle of
                > Initiation, somewhat, irrelevant?
                >
                > And, after all, Klemp never suggests
                > having this young ECKist place people
                > into "Groups" that correspond to their
                > consciousness, values, opinions, honesty
                > or anything that's actually relevant to
                > the positive qualities of friendship.
                >
                > Klemp is too petty, narcissistic, and
                > oblivious to the "real" of present day
                > life. Thus, he's unable to give pertinent
                > advice and guidance to anyone.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                >
                > postekcon wrote:
                >
                > A teen having problems because technology
                > is advancing too fast!
                >
                > A teen complaining technology is interfering
                > with their personal space!
                >
                > A teen writing assistance from an emr-ridden
                > lem for 'help' organizing an 'inbox'!
                >
                > -No further comment! LOL!
                > -Postekcon
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Here's Klemp's 2nd (technology related)
                > > Q & A from the 01/2010 Youth in ECK
                > > Letter of Light.
                > >
                > > #2 of 3
                > >
                > > Q: "With technology consistently advancing
                > > and people becoming more easily connected
                > > through cell phones, the Internet, etc., the
                > > expectations of these people using these
                > > forms of communication are increasing.
                > >
                > > How can young Vahanas keep their personal
                > > space?"
                > >
                > > --Elliot, age 19, Saskatchewan, Canada
                > >
                > > [My caps are added below]
                > >
                > > HK: "A sour fact of life is that we can't
                > > always have our cake and eat it too.
                > >
                > > To enjoy peace of mind is largely in your
                > > hands.
                > >
                > > Decide which contacts are Most Important
                > > to you. Put these into Group A.
                > >
                > > The Sort-Of-Important ones go into
                > > Group B.
                > >
                > > The rest belong to Group C, which
                > > includes the Not-At-All contacts
                > > AND the Occasional Ones.
                > >
                > > Begin to Shut Down Group C.
                > >
                > > For ECK contacts, can you Set Aside
                > > a Certain Day to have ECKists reach
                > > you? Tell your ECK friends the Situation.
                > > They Should understand.
                > >
                > > Obviously, there is No Way to give you
                > > an Easy, One-Size-Fits-All solution,
                > > since conditions will change.
                > >
                > > An Overly Busy Life calls for Superb
                > > Organization. It is all part of Spiritual
                > > Unfoldment." --Harold
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Klemp once again uses the EK Principle of
                > > the Threes (representing the Trinity) and
                > > lists three "Questions for the Master."
                > >
                > > #1 of 3
                > >
                > > Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
                > > How can I enjoy life when it is going
                > > by so fast? Sam, age 12"
                > >
                > > HK: "Some say, time flies when you
                > > are having fun.
                > >
                > > However, many today are having
                > > no fun at all, because they are
                > > overwhelmed by all there is to do.
                > > Computers, TV, the Internet, and
                > > other forms of communication and
                > > entertainment have become commonplace."
                > >
                > > ME: That's a strange question for a kid
                > > to ask. I wanted to grow up fast and had
                > > set goals to accomplish. After Junior High
                > > School I wanted to be in High School then
                > > I wanted to be 16 so I could get my driver's
                > > license etc, etc. Then I wanted to be 18
                > > and leave home and go to college and travel.
                > > Also, I had all kinds of fun at age 12 and
                > > pretty much lived in the moment. Maybe
                > > EK Youth are hampered by their nutty parents
                > > and the Eckankar cult/church that promotes
                > > Mahanta Co-dependency.
                > >
                > > HK: "Few people now take time to be
                > > alone.
                > >
                > > To slow down time means to look at
                > > what things eat up your time.
                > >
                > > Do you really wish to slow down time?
                > > Then this is the moment to make some
                > > hard choices. What are you willing to give
                > > up?"
                > >
                > > ME: This is a 12 year old ECKist Harry's
                > > speaking to. More than likely he's doing
                > > his daily 20 minute contemplations and
                > > is already taking "time to be alone!"
                > > Maybe there's another reason this kid
                > > doesn't want "time" to go by so fast. He
                > > might not want to grow-up because that
                > > would mean more grown-up responsibilities.
                > > It could be that he's experiencing pressures
                > > to get more involved with the ECK Youth
                > > and become a Vahana, etc.
                > >
                > > HK: "No matter your answer, you will
                > > learn something important about you."
                > >
                > > ME: What if his answer is to give up
                > > his religion, thus, give up Eckankar?
                > > Is that okay? Klemp says, "No matter
                > > your answer," but is HK being truthful?
                > > I doubt it!
                > >
                > > HK: "The spiritual principle at work
                > > here is that everything has a price
                > > tag hung on it."
                > >
                > > ME: I can see why Klemp's mind is
                > > fixated upon money, but doesn't that
                > > analogy just confuse the issue for
                > > a 12 year old when you start out
                > > saying "The spiritual principle at
                > > work here..."
                > >
                > > HK: "In other words, what are you
                > > willing to pay for what you want?"
                > >
                > > ME: Does the pitch of "coin and/or
                > > service" come next or is that for
                > > later when he gets older? Or, is it
                > > to have Co-dependency upon the
                > > Mahanta regardless of the outcome?
                > >
                > > HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
                > > It is yet another name for the Law of
                > > Karma."
                > >
                > > [Q: "How can I enjoy life when it is
                > > going by so fast"]
                > >
                > > ME: WOW! I'm glad that Klemp (the
                > > 14th Plane Mahanta) could give such
                > > helpful advice to this 12 year old EKist!
                > > Klemp answered his question so specifically
                > > and with such spiritual insight! I'm sure
                > > that HK's answer will comfort the boy.
                > > Not!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Hello All, Here s the last Q & A from the January 2010 Youth in ECK - Letter of Light by Harold John Klemp (HJK). However, since #3 has multiple questions and
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 13, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello All,
                  Here's the last Q & A from the January 2010
                  Youth in ECK - Letter of Light by Harold John
                  Klemp (HJK). However, since #3 has multiple
                  questions and answers it seems that Klemp
                  couldn't maintain the "White" Magic of using
                  the "Principle of the Threes."

                  Notice, too, there is No Name listed for this
                  person and that it sounds more like he's
                  preaching, on a soapbox, against the U.S.
                  military. Thus, he had no intention of joining
                  the military and this was just a ruse in order
                  to get his anti-U.S. message out there. Is
                  this Klemp? He does use a lot of "BUTS!"
                  No, I don't think it was Klemp, however,
                  he definitely used Klemp to get his opinion
                  out there.

                  #3

                  Q: "I am considering joining the military
                  to earn my way in this world.

                  1) BUT how can joining this kind of entity--
                  one that, in essence, trains one to take the
                  lives of others, subjugate and encroach on
                  people and their property--lead to spiritual
                  unfoldment?

                  2) I understand the human right to defend
                  what is held dear, BUT where lies the fine
                  line between defense and encroachment?

                  3) OR, more importantly, the line between
                  spiritual advancement and spiritual deterioration?

                  4) What real reason can one with a heart
                  of gold have to pull a trigger in any scenario?

                  It leaves me very conflicted."--A Pilot-in-
                  Training


                  ME: "Heart of gold?" Is he living in the Land
                  of Oz? Apparently! And Klemp's the Wizard
                  Behind the Curtain!

                  Here're Klemp's Answers:


                  HJK: "Other young ECKists thinking about
                  signing up for military service may harbor
                  the same reservations as you, especially
                  pilots."

                  ME: Why "especially pilots?" Pilots don't
                  see the faces of the people or the aftermath
                  of the violence. They are above it all and
                  are removed from it. Klemp, hidden away
                  and sitting on his lofty perch, is also removed
                  from the reality of what's really taking place!

                  HJK: 1) "Interview school counselors to learn
                  what options are open to you. Do they include
                  openings for candidates who rescue, rather
                  than destroy, others?"

                  ME: I don't think a "school counselor" can
                  answer that question. One would have to
                  approach a military recruiter with that question
                  and, definitely, have it in writing and be
                  listed as a Conscientious Objector. I would,
                  also, have an attorney look over the agreement
                  and be present at the signing. In case one
                  didn't make it through "pilot training" at
                  least with the "conscientious objector"
                  clause would still be key in determining
                  one's future assignment. Although, it won't
                  get you out of basic training and qualifying
                  on the target range.

                  HJK: 2) "Also speak with military recruiters.
                  What guarantees do they offer that you will
                  actually end up with that sort of duty that
                  you want? This applies to all branches of
                  service."

                  ME: That's why one needs to have it spelled
                  out and have "conscientious objector" included
                  in the agreement and have an attorney look
                  it over and be present at signing! Recruiters
                  can offer all kinds of "guarantees" but that
                  doesn't mean that others, on up the chain-
                  of-command, will honor those guarantees.
                  "Promise them anything" is a common bait-
                  and-switch tactic used by recruiters in order
                  to make their numbers so that they can keep
                  their cushy jobs. Klemp, of all people, can
                  relate to that!

                  HJK: 3) "Let's say, by some chance, you end
                  up in an area that is not of your choosing.
                  Take it as a golden opportunity to learn
                  spiritual detachment. Look always to the
                  Mahanta [HJK]."

                  ME: See, this is why one has to have
                  "conscientious objector" written into
                  the recruitment agreement!

                  isn't it funny, or typical, that Klemp threw
                  in the "golden opportunity" comment since
                  this person mentioned in question #4:
                  "What real reason can one with a heart
                  of gold have to pull a trigger in any scenario?

                  Klemp doesn't do a very good job at
                  answering specific questions. It's kind
                  of a One Size Fits All approach.

                  HJK: "No experience is ever lost, so
                  seek out the good in all things and
                  all people." [end]

                  ME: And what's "good" about killing
                  people? Sometimes it might be necessary
                  but it's never good!

                  Prometheus








                  postekcon wrote:

                  Re: Jan. 2010 - Youth in ECK Letter of Light - Q & A (2 of 3)


                  Good comment Prometheus.

                  If the actual wording of the technology question
                  is examined, it's clear this question was never
                  composed by someone educated 21st century,
                  but by someone educated 20th century!

                  Neither does the content of the question fit
                  teen profiling! What teen is unable to operate
                  gizmos to best advantage?

                  In conclusion, this Q&A scenario is pure fiction!
                  -Postekcon




                  <prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Postekcon and All,
                  >
                  > Klemp tells this young Vahana,
                  > "Begin to Shut-Down Group C."
                  > This grouping includes the
                  > "occasional contacts" of this,
                  > brain-washed and deluded,
                  > 19 year old ECKist.
                  >
                  > However, is this the "spiritual
                  > message" to be sharing with
                  > the ECK Youth or with Vahanas
                  > in general? Shouldn't ECKists
                  > keep connections open to all
                  > people even though they don't
                  > often see or speak to them?
                  > Would Klemp's family, including
                  > his daughter and his three
                  > grandkids, end up in "Group C"
                  > according to his own criteria?
                  > I think so!
                  >
                  > Klemp is undermining those
                  > who want to maintain a
                  > Golden Heart and a line of
                  > communication with all Souls.
                  > Instead, Black Hearted Klemp
                  > places these Souls into categories
                  > (groups) without giving a valid
                  > criteria, as a guideline, for this
                  > EK Youth to follow. It's either an,
                  > arbitrary, A, B, or C grouping
                  > based upon the confused opinions
                  > of this 19 year old.
                  > Actually, this grouping (A,B,C)
                  > sort of resembles a caste
                  > system, and, as I said, there's
                  > no guidance via a detailed criteria
                  > for these divisions! Are some
                  > of those in "Group A" criminals?
                  >
                  >
                  > I wonder, does Klemp place
                  > ECKists into three categories
                  > (A,B,C groups) as well? Probably!
                  > What criteria would be used
                  > for each "group?" Then again,
                  > each Circle of Initiation is a
                  > "group" within the EK Initiation
                  > Caste System.
                  >
                  >
                  > Does Klemp have ECKists "grouped"
                  > (A, B, C) within each initiation?
                  > Do the RESAs "Group" chelas and H.I.s?
                  > Will the ESC show an ECKist their file?
                  >
                  >
                  > I'm thinking that HK (the Mahanta)
                  > does "group" ECKists since he seemed
                  > to be conveying his own grouping (A,B,C)
                  > method that he uses for Eckanakr! It
                  > seems Klemp has his chelas, and H.I.s,
                  > divided into "three groups" A, B, or C.
                  > Wouldn't this make one's Circle of
                  > Initiation, somewhat, irrelevant?
                  >
                  > And, after all, Klemp never suggests
                  > having this young ECKist place people
                  > into "Groups" that correspond to their
                  > consciousness, values, opinions, honesty
                  > or anything that's actually relevant to
                  > the positive qualities of friendship.
                  >
                  > Klemp is too petty, narcissistic, and
                  > oblivious to the "real" of present day
                  > life. Thus, he's unable to give pertinent
                  > advice and guidance to anyone.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > postekcon wrote:
                  >
                  > A teen having problems because technology
                  > is advancing too fast!
                  >
                  > A teen complaining technology is interfering
                  > with their personal space!
                  >
                  > A teen writing assistance from an emr-ridden
                  > lem for 'help' organizing an 'inbox'!
                  >
                  > -No further comment! LOL!
                  > -Postekcon
                  >
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Here's Klemp's 2nd (technology related)
                  > > Q & A from the 01/2010 Youth in ECK
                  > > Letter of Light.
                  > >
                  > > #2 of 3
                  > >
                  > > Q: "With technology consistently advancing
                  > > and people becoming more easily connected
                  > > through cell phones, the Internet, etc., the
                  > > expectations of these people using these
                  > > forms of communication are increasing.
                  > >
                  > > How can young Vahanas keep their personal
                  > > space?"
                  > >
                  > > --Elliot, age 19, Saskatchewan, Canada
                  > >
                  > > [My caps are added below]
                  > >
                  > > HK: "A sour fact of life is that we can't
                  > > always have our cake and eat it too.
                  > >
                  > > To enjoy peace of mind is largely in your
                  > > hands.
                  > >
                  > > Decide which contacts are Most Important
                  > > to you. Put these into Group A.
                  > >
                  > > The Sort-Of-Important ones go into
                  > > Group B.
                  > >
                  > > The rest belong to Group C, which
                  > > includes the Not-At-All contacts
                  > > AND the Occasional Ones.
                  > >
                  > > Begin to Shut Down Group C.
                  > >
                  > > For ECK contacts, can you Set Aside
                  > > a Certain Day to have ECKists reach
                  > > you? Tell your ECK friends the Situation.
                  > > They Should understand.
                  > >
                  > > Obviously, there is No Way to give you
                  > > an Easy, One-Size-Fits-All solution,
                  > > since conditions will change.
                  > >
                  > > An Overly Busy Life calls for Superb
                  > > Organization. It is all part of Spiritual
                  > > Unfoldment." --Harold
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Klemp once again uses the EK Principle of
                  > > the Threes (representing the Trinity) and
                  > > lists three "Questions for the Master."
                  > >
                  > > #1 of 3
                  > >
                  > > Q: "Time is going by so fast for me.
                  > > How can I enjoy life when it is going
                  > > by so fast? Sam, age 12"
                  > >
                  > > HK: "Some say, time flies when you
                  > > are having fun.
                  > >
                  > > However, many today are having
                  > > no fun at all, because they are
                  > > overwhelmed by all there is to do.
                  > > Computers, TV, the Internet, and
                  > > other forms of communication and
                  > > entertainment have become commonplace."
                  > >
                  > > ME: That's a strange question for a kid
                  > > to ask. I wanted to grow up fast and had
                  > > set goals to accomplish. After Junior High
                  > > School I wanted to be in High School then
                  > > I wanted to be 16 so I could get my driver's
                  > > license etc, etc. Then I wanted to be 18
                  > > and leave home and go to college and travel.
                  > > Also, I had all kinds of fun at age 12 and
                  > > pretty much lived in the moment. Maybe
                  > > EK Youth are hampered by their nutty parents
                  > > and the Eckankar cult/church that promotes
                  > > Mahanta Co-dependency.
                  > >
                  > > HK: "Few people now take time to be
                  > > alone.
                  > >
                  > > To slow down time means to look at
                  > > what things eat up your time.
                  > >
                  > > Do you really wish to slow down time?
                  > > Then this is the moment to make some
                  > > hard choices. What are you willing to give
                  > > up?"
                  > >
                  > > ME: This is a 12 year old ECKist Harry's
                  > > speaking to. More than likely he's doing
                  > > his daily 20 minute contemplations and
                  > > is already taking "time to be alone!"
                  > > Maybe there's another reason this kid
                  > > doesn't want "time" to go by so fast. He
                  > > might not want to grow-up because that
                  > > would mean more grown-up responsibilities.
                  > > It could be that he's experiencing pressures
                  > > to get more involved with the ECK Youth
                  > > and become a Vahana, etc.
                  > >
                  > > HK: "No matter your answer, you will
                  > > learn something important about you."
                  > >
                  > > ME: What if his answer is to give up
                  > > his religion, thus, give up Eckankar?
                  > > Is that okay? Klemp says, "No matter
                  > > your answer," but is HK being truthful?
                  > > I doubt it!
                  > >
                  > > HK: "The spiritual principle at work
                  > > here is that everything has a price
                  > > tag hung on it."
                  > >
                  > > ME: I can see why Klemp's mind is
                  > > fixated upon money, but doesn't that
                  > > analogy just confuse the issue for
                  > > a 12 year old when you start out
                  > > saying "The spiritual principle at
                  > > work here..."
                  > >
                  > > HK: "In other words, what are you
                  > > willing to pay for what you want?"
                  > >
                  > > ME: Does the pitch of "coin and/or
                  > > service" come next or is that for
                  > > later when he gets older? Or, is it
                  > > to have Co-dependency upon the
                  > > Mahanta regardless of the outcome?
                  > >
                  > > HK: "So plays out the Law of Balance.
                  > > It is yet another name for the Law of
                  > > Karma."
                  > >
                  > > [Q: "How can I enjoy life when it is
                  > > going by so fast"]
                  > >
                  > > ME: WOW! I'm glad that Klemp (the
                  > > 14th Plane Mahanta) could give such
                  > > helpful advice to this 12 year old EKist!
                  > > Klemp answered his question so specifically
                  > > and with such spiritual insight! I'm sure
                  > > that HK's answer will comfort the boy.
                  > > Not!
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
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