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Re: Darwin and Klemp

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Avonblue and All, The cloud photo of Klemp is representative of the Sky God or Our Father in Heaven. Klemp has been undermining the original
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 7, 2010
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      Hello Avonblue and All,
      The "cloud photo" of Klemp is representative
      of the "Sky God" or "Our Father in Heaven."
      Klemp has been undermining the original
      (borrowed/compiled) teachings of Twitchell
      for years and years by reinventing Eckankar
      and making it into a more Christian/Lutheran
      version.

      BTW-Klemp even favors the King James
      version of the Christian Bible which (according
      to theologians) is the most inaccurate version
      published. King James is the version that the
      angry, ignorant fundamentalists (hypocritical,
      doom & gloom Bible thumpers) choose to use.
      Apparently it was the version they used in the
      Lutheran Seminary Klemp attended.

      No, Joan's not a LEM and never will be! However,
      Klemp was setting her up to become a 12th
      initiate (ECK Master) in his book "Those Wonderful
      ECK Masters," but it was Mish that exposed
      his lame plan. Thus, Klemp (temporarily) put
      the brakes on announcing Joan's promotion
      after seeing his plan exposed on this site.
      Like I said, No Female can become the LEM
      due to PT's "science" of a negative atom/battery
      theory, but females could become 12th Initiates
      (ECK Masters). Not all 12ths are LEMs since
      they have to be invited into the (imaginary)
      Vairagi Order. The truth is that the religious
      leader or head of the "church" can do what he
      wants. Klemp (as PT did) makes and changes
      the rules (dogma) as he sees fit. ECKists will
      go along with whatever excuse/ekplanation
      that he dreams up!

      A couple of Worldwide's ago Klemp had
      scheduled Joan to be on stage with him
      in order to announce her promotion to
      the 12th (ECK Master status), but he changed
      his mind in the last minute after she muffed
      "The Little HU Song" or whatever it was called.
      This annoyed Klemp. How could an EK Master
      (a 12th initiate) muff such a simple song?
      Thus, Klemp withheld the promotion and,
      instead, made fun of Joan and embarrassed
      her. He said: sometimes I have to tell her
      to close her mouth when she's talking
      too much! [I didn't put it in quotes since
      I'm not certain if those were his exact words,
      but I think they were]

      Anyway, I'm surprised that every ECKist just
      sat there and took the insult as something
      acceptable for "the Mahanta" to say. Maybe
      some discussed it later, or just said "Wow!"
      This is just more proof that Klemp is Not what
      he claims to be and that he's two-faced. No
      real "Master" would do such a thing. However,
      just imagine the insults he uses toward Joan
      behind closed doors! Sadly, for most ECKists,
      it's "the only game in town" so they put up
      with it and turn a blind-eye and deaf-ear to
      the Truth. Instead, Eckists go with the same
      religious B.S. explanations involving "belief"
      that they had heard prior to Eckankar.

      It's amazing that Eckists perspectives of
      "religion," over the years, hasn't really changed
      for the better. Critical thinking for these Eckists
      has either become clouded or nonexistent.
      They can't see the negative correlations with
      their own religion, Eckankar, and other religions.
      They've been tricked, again, for another lifetime!
      In some ways this can be seen as a "test" and
      that's true... it is! Still, I hate to see those that
      I helped to recruit into Eckankar being fooled
      by someone like Klemp.

      Prometheus


      avonblue wrote:

      I think Klemp's newest photos are very interesting
      and revealing of where this path is going. First there's
      the "cloud photo" Klemp smiling and poking his head
      thru a sunburst cloud in the sky. Implies to me that
      he's above all - god himself. Then there is the 'family
      shot'; Klemp and Joan together. What are new chelas
      to think of this? Is Joan an LEM also? Or is this a lead
      in to this possibly happening?

      AB

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > I can remember Klemp chastising a woman
      > for adoringly addressing him with a question
      > at a mid-1980's Spiritual Laws Seminar Q & A
      > session in Toronto. The way in which he derided
      > her was cruel hearted and lacked compassion.
      > The lady was both embarrassed and crushed.
      > But, Klemp made his point to those present
      > that he was not to be worshipped. That all
      > changed in the '90s!
      >
      > Klemp said in his 1983 tape, for H.I.s,
      > that Darwin was a Black Magician and
      > that looking at his picture or reading
      > his words could influence ECKists psychically.
      > This was the cue for us to purge the EK
      > Centers of all of Darwin's pictures and
      > books... and we did! But, why don't Klemp's
      > books and pictures have a Lower Plane
      > psychic influence as well? They do!
      >
      > And, look at Klemp's "Official Picture."
      > It's 10 years old! This proves that Klemp
      > is Vain, and Vanity is of the Astral Plane.
      > Thus, Klemp is a trickster too and a Black
      > Magician and a KAL agent!
      >
      > Yes, Klemp didn't like being the second
      > banana on stage with Darwin. It seemed
      > nice while it lasted... two EK Masters working
      > together in harmony and for the good of
      > all, or so we thought at the time.
      >
      > Also, Klemp likes to talk in third person
      > when he too (as Twit did) speaks or writes
      > of the Mahanta (himself) and all that the
      > Mahanta is and can do. In his Autobiography
      > Klemp points out (pg. 385) that the "God"
      > all religions "worship" (except Eckankar)
      > is just a 2nd or 4th Plane God (the KAL,
      > i.e. Satan, Devil) while the Mahanta (Klemp)
      > is of the 14th Plane.
      >
      > Why is Klemp so surprised that Eckists
      > worship him (the Mahanta)? Actually this
      > was Klemp's plan, not early on, but later.
      > After all, the ECK Worship Services are
      > designed around the "worship" of the ECK/
      > Mahanta (Klemp). That's another thing!
      > Klemp has even stated that he, the
      > Mahanta, is the ECK and/or is "one" with
      > the ECK (Holy Spirit). Thus, Klemp did
      > a 180 degree turn around from that little
      > speech he gave at that Spiritual Laws
      > Seminar, around 1984-85, in Toronto.
      > The only thing that's remained the same
      > is HK's mean spirited two-faced nature.
      >
      > That reminds me of Klemp not attending
      > his father's funeral. Klemp's father died one
      > month after Twitchell on Oct. 17, 1971.
      >
      > Klemp claimed, later, that he had a dream
      > with PT naming him the LEM. Therefore he
      > wanted to attend the 1971 Worldwide seminar
      > and take his rightful place on the EK throne.
      > That really wasn't the case however. That was
      > just a story he made up later after the fact
      > of lying in wait and becoming the LEM. This
      > story was given in order for Klemp to have
      > some validity via Twitchell. Funny that Gail
      > had the same idea in regards to Darwin, or
      > did Klemp just copy her? Anyway, Harry
      > gave this, too, as an excuse to justify attending
      > the 1971 EK Worldwide Seminar instead
      > of his father's funeral.
      >
      > However, Klemp added another, Christian/
      > Jesus, element to his excuse as well. HK
      > quoted what Jesus, supposedly, said
      > according to Luke 9:59-62 and Matthew
      > 8:22 (18-23): "Let the dead bury the dead."
      > This was in regard to Harold's family. This
      > included his mother, two brothers and sister
      > (among others) that Harold was referring
      > to.
      >
      > HK's whole family supported him (with love)
      > and financed his stay at the all boys Lutheran
      > high school and seminary. Harry, even then,
      > was an angry and cold hearted social misfit
      > with psychological issues. He saw his father
      > and mother and others as being "spiritually
      > dead." What's really bad, and sad for EKists,
      > is that Klemp never changed his opinion or
      > position of what he said and did back in Oct.
      > 1971. Even today, as the Mahanta, he justifies
      > what he did with "Let the dead bury the dead"
      > quote that he used to explain his actions.
      > Of course, there's that so-called "dream,"
      > with PT, he had as well.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      > jonathan wrote:
      > >
      Zoey,
      > >
      I joined in 1979 when Darwin was in his last 4-5 years in Eckankar (if my
      calculations are correct). So I was there in 1981 when Darwin appointed Klemp
      as the new LEM, but Darwin hung around to handle the money part of things. And I
      was there in 1983 when Klemp kicked Darwin out. The best place to read about
      this is probably in Ford Johnson's book because Ford was very high up in
      Eckankar's structure at the time.
      > >
      When Darwin was kicked out, Klemp was talking a lot about how "You follow
      the Mahanta, not the personality," meaning that the Eck membership should be
      following the inner master, in other words, Klemp. The founder of Eckankar,
      Paul Twitchell emphasized this many times in his talks, that you don't follow the
      personality, even commenting humorously "I actually don't have very much
      personality."
      > >
      I heard from someone, I don't remember who, that when Darwin got kicked out,
      a third of Eckankar's members left. Many of them followed Darwin, but I'm sure
      many did not.
      > >
      Darwin is generally credited with building Eckankar's membership roles up.
      For one thing, he was a lot more charismatic that Klemp, although it was a quiet
      charisma, not flamboyant like a fundamentalist preacher or something like
      that.
      > >
      But sometime over the past ten years or more, Eckankar has been turned into
      a "worship Harold Klemp cult." I have listed some of my evidence below:
      > >
      1. The secret publications are full of color group photos of 20 to 80
      Eckists and there is always a photo of Klemp in front of the first row, many times it
      is a very large photo about 2.5 feet high. This is done to encourage people to
      worship Klemp. It is not rare to see four or five of these photos in one small
      bulletin which is sent out to Eckankar's members.
      >
      2. The Eck centers in 1979-1983 had a small table with some flowers and a
      small (8x10?) photo of the LEM (Darwin or Klemp). It was much the same that
      you would see at a Transcendental Meditation meeting back then. Now the Eck
      centers have a huge photo of Klemp high up on the wall with Klemp staring down at
      everybody. Obviously, this is meant as a power trip to place Klemp way above
      everybody else. In my opinion, this encourages people to worship Klemp.
      >
      3. In the secret writings, Klemp states that members should love him (must
      love him?) and if they don't then they will be held back spiritually. In my
      opinion, this is another example of Klemp using his big ego to control his
      followers.
      > >
      Please note that I already discussed numbers 1 through 3 in a post or posts
      from Dec 2008 to early 2009 when I first left Eckankar. But I would like to
      add a number 4 here.
      > >
      4. One day in my last month or two as a member of Eckankar, I was st the
      local Eck center, and I mentioned in a roundabout way that Klemp wasn't always going
      to be here, and that people shouldn't be placing so much attention on him.
      Boy!

      > People looked at me like they thought I was a complete nut case! I made the
      > statement because I was thinking about the large number of members who left
      > Eckankar when Darwin was kicked out. And I was thinking that when Klemp died,
      I
      > was seeing the loss of members as being potentially much worse.
      > >
      > > Jonathan
      > >
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