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Re: Darwin and Klemp

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, I can remember Klemp chastising a woman for adoringly addressing him with a question at a mid-1980 s Spiritual Laws Seminar Q & A session in
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 6, 2010
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      Hello All,
      I can remember Klemp chastising a woman
      for adoringly addressing him with a question
      at a mid-1980's Spiritual Laws Seminar Q & A
      session in Toronto. The way in which he derided
      her was cruel hearted and lacked compassion.
      The lady was both embarrassed and crushed.
      But, Klemp made his point to those present
      that he was not to be worshipped. That all
      changed in the '90s!

      Klemp said in his 1983 tape, for H.I.s,
      that Darwin was a Black Magician and
      that looking at his picture or reading
      his words could influence ECKists psychically.
      This was the cue for us to purge the EK
      Centers of all of Darwin's pictures and
      books... and we did! But, why don't Klemp's
      books and pictures have a Lower Plane
      psychic influence as well? They do!

      And, look at Klemp's "Official Picture."
      It's 10 years old! This proves that Klemp
      is Vain, and Vanity is of the Astral Plane.
      Thus, Klemp is a trickster too and a Black
      Magician and a KAL agent!

      Yes, Klemp didn't like being the second
      banana on stage with Darwin. It seemed
      nice while it lasted... two EK Masters working
      together in harmony and for the good of
      all, or so we thought at the time.

      Also, Klemp likes to talk in third person
      when he too (as Twit did) speaks or writes
      of the Mahanta (himself) and all that the
      Mahanta is and can do. In his Autobiography
      Klemp points out (pg. 385) that the "God"
      all religions "worship" (except Eckankar)
      is just a 2nd or 4th Plane God (the KAL,
      i.e. Satan, Devil) while the Mahanta (Klemp)
      is of the 14th Plane.

      Why is Klemp so surprised that Eckists
      worship him (the Mahanta)? Actually this
      was Klemp's plan, not early on, but later.
      After all, the ECK Worship Services are
      designed around the "worship" of the ECK/
      Mahanta (Klemp). That's another thing!
      Klemp has even stated that he, the
      Mahanta, is the ECK and/or is "one" with
      the ECK (Holy Spirit). Thus, Klemp did
      a 180 degree turn around from that little
      speech he gave at that Spiritual Laws
      Seminar, around 1984-85, in Toronto.
      The only thing that's remained the same
      is HK's mean spirited two-faced nature.

      That reminds me of Klemp not attending
      his father's funeral. Klemp's father died one
      month after Twitchell on Oct. 17, 1971.

      Klemp claimed, later, that he had a dream
      with PT naming him the LEM. Therefore he
      wanted to attend the 1971 Worldwide seminar
      and take his rightful place on the EK throne.
      That really wasn't the case however. That was
      just a story he made up later after the fact
      of lying in wait and becoming the LEM. This
      story was given in order for Klemp to have
      some validity via Twitchell. Funny that Gail
      had the same idea in regards to Darwin, or
      did Klemp just copy her? Anyway, Harry
      gave this, too, as an excuse to justify attending
      the 1971 EK Worldwide Seminar instead
      of his father's funeral.

      However, Klemp added another, Christian/
      Jesus, element to his excuse as well. HK
      quoted what Jesus, supposedly, said
      according to Luke 9:59-62 and Matthew
      8:22 (18-23): "Let the dead bury the dead."
      This was in regard to Harold's family. This
      included his mother, two brothers and sister
      (among others) that Harold was referring
      to.

      HK's whole family supported him (with love)
      and financed his stay at the all boys Lutheran
      high school and seminary. Harry, even then,
      was an angry and cold hearted social misfit
      with psychological issues. He saw his father
      and mother and others as being "spiritually
      dead." What's really bad, and sad for EKists,
      is that Klemp never changed his opinion or
      position of what he said and did back in Oct.
      1971. Even today, as the Mahanta, he justifies
      what he did with "Let the dead bury the dead"
      quote that he used to explain his actions.
      Of course, there's that so-called "dream,"
      with PT, he had as well.

      Prometheus



      jonathan wrote:
      >
      > Zoey,
      >
      > I joined in 1979 when Darwin was in his last 4-5 years in Eckankar (if my
      calculations are correct). So I was there in 1981 when Darwin appointed Klemp as
      the new LEM, but Darwin hung around to handle the money part of things. And I
      was there in 1983 when Klemp kicked Darwin out. The best place to read about
      this is probably in Ford Johnson's book because Ford was very high up in
      Eckankar's structure at the time.
      >
      > When Darwin was kicked out, Klemp was talking a lot about how "You follow the
      Mahanta, not the personality," meaning that the Eck membership should be
      following the inner master, in other words, Klemp. The founder of Eckankar, Paul
      Twitchell emphasized this many times in his talks, that you don't follow the
      personality, even commenting humorously "I actually don't have very much
      personality."
      >
      > I heard from someone, I don't remember who, that when Darwin got kicked out, a
      third of Eckankar's members left. Many of them followed Darwin, but I'm sure
      many did not.
      >
      > Darwin is generally credited with building Eckankar's membership roles up. For
      one thing, he was a lot more charismatic that Klemp, although it was a quiet
      charisma, not flamboyant like a fundamentalist preacher or something like that.
      >
      > But sometime over the past ten years or more, Eckankar has been turned into a
      "worship Harold Klemp cult." I have listed some of my evidence below:
      >
      > 1. The secret publications are full of color group photos of 20 to 80 Eckists
      and there is always a photo of Klemp in front of the first row, many times it is
      a very large photo about 2.5 feet high. This is done to encourage people to
      worship Klemp. It is not rare to see four or five of these photos in one small
      bulletin which is sent out to Eckankar's members.

      > 2. The Eck centers in 1979-1983 had a small table with some flowers and a
      small (8x10?) photo of the LEM (Darwin or Klemp). It was much the same that you
      would see at a Transcendental Meditation meeting back then. Now the Eck centers
      have a huge photo of Klemp high up on the wall with Klemp staring down at
      everybody. Obviously, this is meant as a power trip to place Klemp way above
      everybody else. In my opinion, this encourages people to worship Klemp.

      > 3. In the secret writings, Klemp states that members should love him (must
      love him?) and if they don't then they will be held back spiritually. In my
      opinion, this is another example of Klemp using his big ego to control his
      followers.
      >
      > Please note that I already discussed numbers 1 through 3 in a post or posts
      from Dec 2008 to early 2009 when I first left Eckankar. But I would like to add
      a number 4 here.
      >
      > 4. One day in my last month or two as a member of Eckankar, I was st the local
      Eck center, and I mentioned in a roundabout way that Klemp wasn't always going
      to be here, and that people shouldn't be placing so much attention on him. Boy!
      People looked at me like they thought I was a complete nut case! I made the
      statement because I was thinking about the large number of members who left
      Eckankar when Darwin was kicked out. And I was thinking that when Klemp died, I
      was seeing the loss of members as being potentially much worse.
      >
      > Jonathan
      >
      >

      <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Zoey and All,
      > > Yes, many ECKists followed Darwin
      > > and left Eckankar with him. Most
      > > Satsangs were devastated due to
      > > the schism. It took many years for
      > > Eckankar to recover and Klemp used
      > > this to his benefit to do his personalized
      > > reconstruction of the church.
      > >
      > >
      > > zoey wrote:
      > >
      > > I wasn't associated with eckankar for very long, but I did make it my
      business
      > > to learn a good deal about its history. And I always assumed that all the
      > > eckists 'shunned' Darwin when Klemp ousted him. But I have recently met a
      guy
      > > who left with Darwin, and still, to this day, considers Darwin to be his
      > > 'Master'.
      > >
      > > Do you think there was a lot of this? I mean, a lot of people who followed
      > > Darwin out? Somehow, this amazes me.
      > >
      > > zoey
      > >
    • avonblue1212
      I think Klemp s newest photos are very interesting and revealing of where this path is going. First there s the cloud photo Klemp smiling and poking his
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 7, 2010
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        I think Klemp's newest photos are very interesting and revealing of where this path is going. First there's the "cloud photo" Klemp smiling and poking his head thru a sunburst cloud in the sky. Implies to me that he's above all - god himself. Then there is the 'family shot'; Klemp and Joan together. What are new chelas to think of this? Is Joan an LEM also? Or is this a lead in to this possibly happening?

        AB

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > I can remember Klemp chastising a woman
        > for adoringly addressing him with a question
        > at a mid-1980's Spiritual Laws Seminar Q & A
        > session in Toronto. The way in which he derided
        > her was cruel hearted and lacked compassion.
        > The lady was both embarrassed and crushed.
        > But, Klemp made his point to those present
        > that he was not to be worshipped. That all
        > changed in the '90s!
        >
        > Klemp said in his 1983 tape, for H.I.s,
        > that Darwin was a Black Magician and
        > that looking at his picture or reading
        > his words could influence ECKists psychically.
        > This was the cue for us to purge the EK
        > Centers of all of Darwin's pictures and
        > books... and we did! But, why don't Klemp's
        > books and pictures have a Lower Plane
        > psychic influence as well? They do!
        >
        > And, look at Klemp's "Official Picture."
        > It's 10 years old! This proves that Klemp
        > is Vain, and Vanity is of the Astral Plane.
        > Thus, Klemp is a trickster too and a Black
        > Magician and a KAL agent!
        >
        > Yes, Klemp didn't like being the second
        > banana on stage with Darwin. It seemed
        > nice while it lasted... two EK Masters working
        > together in harmony and for the good of
        > all, or so we thought at the time.
        >
        > Also, Klemp likes to talk in third person
        > when he too (as Twit did) speaks or writes
        > of the Mahanta (himself) and all that the
        > Mahanta is and can do. In his Autobiography
        > Klemp points out (pg. 385) that the "God"
        > all religions "worship" (except Eckankar)
        > is just a 2nd or 4th Plane God (the KAL,
        > i.e. Satan, Devil) while the Mahanta (Klemp)
        > is of the 14th Plane.
        >
        > Why is Klemp so surprised that Eckists
        > worship him (the Mahanta)? Actually this
        > was Klemp's plan, not early on, but later.
        > After all, the ECK Worship Services are
        > designed around the "worship" of the ECK/
        > Mahanta (Klemp). That's another thing!
        > Klemp has even stated that he, the
        > Mahanta, is the ECK and/or is "one" with
        > the ECK (Holy Spirit). Thus, Klemp did
        > a 180 degree turn around from that little
        > speech he gave at that Spiritual Laws
        > Seminar, around 1984-85, in Toronto.
        > The only thing that's remained the same
        > is HK's mean spirited two-faced nature.
        >
        > That reminds me of Klemp not attending
        > his father's funeral. Klemp's father died one
        > month after Twitchell on Oct. 17, 1971.
        >
        > Klemp claimed, later, that he had a dream
        > with PT naming him the LEM. Therefore he
        > wanted to attend the 1971 Worldwide seminar
        > and take his rightful place on the EK throne.
        > That really wasn't the case however. That was
        > just a story he made up later after the fact
        > of lying in wait and becoming the LEM. This
        > story was given in order for Klemp to have
        > some validity via Twitchell. Funny that Gail
        > had the same idea in regards to Darwin, or
        > did Klemp just copy her? Anyway, Harry
        > gave this, too, as an excuse to justify attending
        > the 1971 EK Worldwide Seminar instead
        > of his father's funeral.
        >
        > However, Klemp added another, Christian/
        > Jesus, element to his excuse as well. HK
        > quoted what Jesus, supposedly, said
        > according to Luke 9:59-62 and Matthew
        > 8:22 (18-23): "Let the dead bury the dead."
        > This was in regard to Harold's family. This
        > included his mother, two brothers and sister
        > (among others) that Harold was referring
        > to.
        >
        > HK's whole family supported him (with love)
        > and financed his stay at the all boys Lutheran
        > high school and seminary. Harry, even then,
        > was an angry and cold hearted social misfit
        > with psychological issues. He saw his father
        > and mother and others as being "spiritually
        > dead." What's really bad, and sad for EKists,
        > is that Klemp never changed his opinion or
        > position of what he said and did back in Oct.
        > 1971. Even today, as the Mahanta, he justifies
        > what he did with "Let the dead bury the dead"
        > quote that he used to explain his actions.
        > Of course, there's that so-called "dream,"
        > with PT, he had as well.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        >
        > jonathan wrote:
        > >
        > > Zoey,
        > >
        > > I joined in 1979 when Darwin was in his last 4-5 years in Eckankar (if my
        > calculations are correct). So I was there in 1981 when Darwin appointed Klemp as
        > the new LEM, but Darwin hung around to handle the money part of things. And I
        > was there in 1983 when Klemp kicked Darwin out. The best place to read about
        > this is probably in Ford Johnson's book because Ford was very high up in
        > Eckankar's structure at the time.
        > >
        > > When Darwin was kicked out, Klemp was talking a lot about how "You follow the
        > Mahanta, not the personality," meaning that the Eck membership should be
        > following the inner master, in other words, Klemp. The founder of Eckankar, Paul
        > Twitchell emphasized this many times in his talks, that you don't follow the
        > personality, even commenting humorously "I actually don't have very much
        > personality."
        > >
        > > I heard from someone, I don't remember who, that when Darwin got kicked out, a
        > third of Eckankar's members left. Many of them followed Darwin, but I'm sure
        > many did not.
        > >
        > > Darwin is generally credited with building Eckankar's membership roles up. For
        > one thing, he was a lot more charismatic that Klemp, although it was a quiet
        > charisma, not flamboyant like a fundamentalist preacher or something like that.
        > >
        > > But sometime over the past ten years or more, Eckankar has been turned into a
        > "worship Harold Klemp cult." I have listed some of my evidence below:
        > >
        > > 1. The secret publications are full of color group photos of 20 to 80 Eckists
        > and there is always a photo of Klemp in front of the first row, many times it is
        > a very large photo about 2.5 feet high. This is done to encourage people to
        > worship Klemp. It is not rare to see four or five of these photos in one small
        > bulletin which is sent out to Eckankar's members.
        >
        > > 2. The Eck centers in 1979-1983 had a small table with some flowers and a
        > small (8x10?) photo of the LEM (Darwin or Klemp). It was much the same that you
        > would see at a Transcendental Meditation meeting back then. Now the Eck centers
        > have a huge photo of Klemp high up on the wall with Klemp staring down at
        > everybody. Obviously, this is meant as a power trip to place Klemp way above
        > everybody else. In my opinion, this encourages people to worship Klemp.
        >
        > > 3. In the secret writings, Klemp states that members should love him (must
        > love him?) and if they don't then they will be held back spiritually. In my
        > opinion, this is another example of Klemp using his big ego to control his
        > followers.
        > >
        > > Please note that I already discussed numbers 1 through 3 in a post or posts
        > from Dec 2008 to early 2009 when I first left Eckankar. But I would like to add
        > a number 4 here.
        > >
        > > 4. One day in my last month or two as a member of Eckankar, I was st the local
        > Eck center, and I mentioned in a roundabout way that Klemp wasn't always going
        > to be here, and that people shouldn't be placing so much attention on him. Boy!
        > People looked at me like they thought I was a complete nut case! I made the
        > statement because I was thinking about the large number of members who left
        > Eckankar when Darwin was kicked out. And I was thinking that when Klemp died, I
        > was seeing the loss of members as being potentially much worse.
        > >
        > > Jonathan
        > >
        > >
        >
        > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello Zoey and All,
        > > > Yes, many ECKists followed Darwin
        > > > and left Eckankar with him. Most
        > > > Satsangs were devastated due to
        > > > the schism. It took many years for
        > > > Eckankar to recover and Klemp used
        > > > this to his benefit to do his personalized
        > > > reconstruction of the church.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > zoey wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I wasn't associated with eckankar for very long, but I did make it my
        > business
        > > > to learn a good deal about its history. And I always assumed that all the
        > > > eckists 'shunned' Darwin when Klemp ousted him. But I have recently met a
        > guy
        > > > who left with Darwin, and still, to this day, considers Darwin to be his
        > > > 'Master'.
        > > >
        > > > Do you think there was a lot of this? I mean, a lot of people who followed
        > > > Darwin out? Somehow, this amazes me.
        > > >
        > > > zoey
        > > >
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Avonblue and All, The cloud photo of Klemp is representative of the Sky God or Our Father in Heaven. Klemp has been undermining the original
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 7, 2010
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          Hello Avonblue and All,
          The "cloud photo" of Klemp is representative
          of the "Sky God" or "Our Father in Heaven."
          Klemp has been undermining the original
          (borrowed/compiled) teachings of Twitchell
          for years and years by reinventing Eckankar
          and making it into a more Christian/Lutheran
          version.

          BTW-Klemp even favors the King James
          version of the Christian Bible which (according
          to theologians) is the most inaccurate version
          published. King James is the version that the
          angry, ignorant fundamentalists (hypocritical,
          doom & gloom Bible thumpers) choose to use.
          Apparently it was the version they used in the
          Lutheran Seminary Klemp attended.

          No, Joan's not a LEM and never will be! However,
          Klemp was setting her up to become a 12th
          initiate (ECK Master) in his book "Those Wonderful
          ECK Masters," but it was Mish that exposed
          his lame plan. Thus, Klemp (temporarily) put
          the brakes on announcing Joan's promotion
          after seeing his plan exposed on this site.
          Like I said, No Female can become the LEM
          due to PT's "science" of a negative atom/battery
          theory, but females could become 12th Initiates
          (ECK Masters). Not all 12ths are LEMs since
          they have to be invited into the (imaginary)
          Vairagi Order. The truth is that the religious
          leader or head of the "church" can do what he
          wants. Klemp (as PT did) makes and changes
          the rules (dogma) as he sees fit. ECKists will
          go along with whatever excuse/ekplanation
          that he dreams up!

          A couple of Worldwide's ago Klemp had
          scheduled Joan to be on stage with him
          in order to announce her promotion to
          the 12th (ECK Master status), but he changed
          his mind in the last minute after she muffed
          "The Little HU Song" or whatever it was called.
          This annoyed Klemp. How could an EK Master
          (a 12th initiate) muff such a simple song?
          Thus, Klemp withheld the promotion and,
          instead, made fun of Joan and embarrassed
          her. He said: sometimes I have to tell her
          to close her mouth when she's talking
          too much! [I didn't put it in quotes since
          I'm not certain if those were his exact words,
          but I think they were]

          Anyway, I'm surprised that every ECKist just
          sat there and took the insult as something
          acceptable for "the Mahanta" to say. Maybe
          some discussed it later, or just said "Wow!"
          This is just more proof that Klemp is Not what
          he claims to be and that he's two-faced. No
          real "Master" would do such a thing. However,
          just imagine the insults he uses toward Joan
          behind closed doors! Sadly, for most ECKists,
          it's "the only game in town" so they put up
          with it and turn a blind-eye and deaf-ear to
          the Truth. Instead, Eckists go with the same
          religious B.S. explanations involving "belief"
          that they had heard prior to Eckankar.

          It's amazing that Eckists perspectives of
          "religion," over the years, hasn't really changed
          for the better. Critical thinking for these Eckists
          has either become clouded or nonexistent.
          They can't see the negative correlations with
          their own religion, Eckankar, and other religions.
          They've been tricked, again, for another lifetime!
          In some ways this can be seen as a "test" and
          that's true... it is! Still, I hate to see those that
          I helped to recruit into Eckankar being fooled
          by someone like Klemp.

          Prometheus


          avonblue wrote:

          I think Klemp's newest photos are very interesting
          and revealing of where this path is going. First there's
          the "cloud photo" Klemp smiling and poking his head
          thru a sunburst cloud in the sky. Implies to me that
          he's above all - god himself. Then there is the 'family
          shot'; Klemp and Joan together. What are new chelas
          to think of this? Is Joan an LEM also? Or is this a lead
          in to this possibly happening?

          AB

          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > I can remember Klemp chastising a woman
          > for adoringly addressing him with a question
          > at a mid-1980's Spiritual Laws Seminar Q & A
          > session in Toronto. The way in which he derided
          > her was cruel hearted and lacked compassion.
          > The lady was both embarrassed and crushed.
          > But, Klemp made his point to those present
          > that he was not to be worshipped. That all
          > changed in the '90s!
          >
          > Klemp said in his 1983 tape, for H.I.s,
          > that Darwin was a Black Magician and
          > that looking at his picture or reading
          > his words could influence ECKists psychically.
          > This was the cue for us to purge the EK
          > Centers of all of Darwin's pictures and
          > books... and we did! But, why don't Klemp's
          > books and pictures have a Lower Plane
          > psychic influence as well? They do!
          >
          > And, look at Klemp's "Official Picture."
          > It's 10 years old! This proves that Klemp
          > is Vain, and Vanity is of the Astral Plane.
          > Thus, Klemp is a trickster too and a Black
          > Magician and a KAL agent!
          >
          > Yes, Klemp didn't like being the second
          > banana on stage with Darwin. It seemed
          > nice while it lasted... two EK Masters working
          > together in harmony and for the good of
          > all, or so we thought at the time.
          >
          > Also, Klemp likes to talk in third person
          > when he too (as Twit did) speaks or writes
          > of the Mahanta (himself) and all that the
          > Mahanta is and can do. In his Autobiography
          > Klemp points out (pg. 385) that the "God"
          > all religions "worship" (except Eckankar)
          > is just a 2nd or 4th Plane God (the KAL,
          > i.e. Satan, Devil) while the Mahanta (Klemp)
          > is of the 14th Plane.
          >
          > Why is Klemp so surprised that Eckists
          > worship him (the Mahanta)? Actually this
          > was Klemp's plan, not early on, but later.
          > After all, the ECK Worship Services are
          > designed around the "worship" of the ECK/
          > Mahanta (Klemp). That's another thing!
          > Klemp has even stated that he, the
          > Mahanta, is the ECK and/or is "one" with
          > the ECK (Holy Spirit). Thus, Klemp did
          > a 180 degree turn around from that little
          > speech he gave at that Spiritual Laws
          > Seminar, around 1984-85, in Toronto.
          > The only thing that's remained the same
          > is HK's mean spirited two-faced nature.
          >
          > That reminds me of Klemp not attending
          > his father's funeral. Klemp's father died one
          > month after Twitchell on Oct. 17, 1971.
          >
          > Klemp claimed, later, that he had a dream
          > with PT naming him the LEM. Therefore he
          > wanted to attend the 1971 Worldwide seminar
          > and take his rightful place on the EK throne.
          > That really wasn't the case however. That was
          > just a story he made up later after the fact
          > of lying in wait and becoming the LEM. This
          > story was given in order for Klemp to have
          > some validity via Twitchell. Funny that Gail
          > had the same idea in regards to Darwin, or
          > did Klemp just copy her? Anyway, Harry
          > gave this, too, as an excuse to justify attending
          > the 1971 EK Worldwide Seminar instead
          > of his father's funeral.
          >
          > However, Klemp added another, Christian/
          > Jesus, element to his excuse as well. HK
          > quoted what Jesus, supposedly, said
          > according to Luke 9:59-62 and Matthew
          > 8:22 (18-23): "Let the dead bury the dead."
          > This was in regard to Harold's family. This
          > included his mother, two brothers and sister
          > (among others) that Harold was referring
          > to.
          >
          > HK's whole family supported him (with love)
          > and financed his stay at the all boys Lutheran
          > high school and seminary. Harry, even then,
          > was an angry and cold hearted social misfit
          > with psychological issues. He saw his father
          > and mother and others as being "spiritually
          > dead." What's really bad, and sad for EKists,
          > is that Klemp never changed his opinion or
          > position of what he said and did back in Oct.
          > 1971. Even today, as the Mahanta, he justifies
          > what he did with "Let the dead bury the dead"
          > quote that he used to explain his actions.
          > Of course, there's that so-called "dream,"
          > with PT, he had as well.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          >
          > jonathan wrote:
          > >
          Zoey,
          > >
          I joined in 1979 when Darwin was in his last 4-5 years in Eckankar (if my
          calculations are correct). So I was there in 1981 when Darwin appointed Klemp
          as the new LEM, but Darwin hung around to handle the money part of things. And I
          was there in 1983 when Klemp kicked Darwin out. The best place to read about
          this is probably in Ford Johnson's book because Ford was very high up in
          Eckankar's structure at the time.
          > >
          When Darwin was kicked out, Klemp was talking a lot about how "You follow
          the Mahanta, not the personality," meaning that the Eck membership should be
          following the inner master, in other words, Klemp. The founder of Eckankar,
          Paul Twitchell emphasized this many times in his talks, that you don't follow the
          personality, even commenting humorously "I actually don't have very much
          personality."
          > >
          I heard from someone, I don't remember who, that when Darwin got kicked out,
          a third of Eckankar's members left. Many of them followed Darwin, but I'm sure
          many did not.
          > >
          Darwin is generally credited with building Eckankar's membership roles up.
          For one thing, he was a lot more charismatic that Klemp, although it was a quiet
          charisma, not flamboyant like a fundamentalist preacher or something like
          that.
          > >
          But sometime over the past ten years or more, Eckankar has been turned into
          a "worship Harold Klemp cult." I have listed some of my evidence below:
          > >
          1. The secret publications are full of color group photos of 20 to 80
          Eckists and there is always a photo of Klemp in front of the first row, many times it
          is a very large photo about 2.5 feet high. This is done to encourage people to
          worship Klemp. It is not rare to see four or five of these photos in one small
          bulletin which is sent out to Eckankar's members.
          >
          2. The Eck centers in 1979-1983 had a small table with some flowers and a
          small (8x10?) photo of the LEM (Darwin or Klemp). It was much the same that
          you would see at a Transcendental Meditation meeting back then. Now the Eck
          centers have a huge photo of Klemp high up on the wall with Klemp staring down at
          everybody. Obviously, this is meant as a power trip to place Klemp way above
          everybody else. In my opinion, this encourages people to worship Klemp.
          >
          3. In the secret writings, Klemp states that members should love him (must
          love him?) and if they don't then they will be held back spiritually. In my
          opinion, this is another example of Klemp using his big ego to control his
          followers.
          > >
          Please note that I already discussed numbers 1 through 3 in a post or posts
          from Dec 2008 to early 2009 when I first left Eckankar. But I would like to
          add a number 4 here.
          > >
          4. One day in my last month or two as a member of Eckankar, I was st the
          local Eck center, and I mentioned in a roundabout way that Klemp wasn't always going
          to be here, and that people shouldn't be placing so much attention on him.
          Boy!

          > People looked at me like they thought I was a complete nut case! I made the
          > statement because I was thinking about the large number of members who left
          > Eckankar when Darwin was kicked out. And I was thinking that when Klemp died,
          I
          > was seeing the loss of members as being potentially much worse.
          > >
          > > Jonathan
          > >
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