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Re: Darwin

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Zoey and All, Yes, many ECKists followed Darwin and left Eckankar with him. Most Satsangs were devastated due to the schism. It took many years for
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 1, 2010
      Hello Zoey and All,
      Yes, many ECKists followed Darwin
      and left Eckankar with him. Most
      Satsangs were devastated due to
      the schism. It took many years for
      Eckankar to recover and Klemp used
      this to his benefit to do his personalized
      reconstruction of the church.


      zoey wrote:

      I wasn't associated with eckankar for very long, but I did make it my business
      to learn a good deal about its history. And I always assumed that all the
      eckists 'shunned' Darwin when Klemp ousted him. But I have recently met a guy
      who left with Darwin, and still, to this day, considers Darwin to be his
      'Master'.

      Do you think there was a lot of this? I mean, a lot of people who followed
      Darwin out? Somehow, this amazes me.

      zoey
    • jonathanjohns96
      Zoey, I joined in 1979 when Darwin was in his last 4-5 years in Eckankar (if my calculations are correct). So I was there in 1981 when Darwin appointed Klemp
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 6, 2010
        Zoey,

        I joined in 1979 when Darwin was in his last 4-5 years in Eckankar (if my calculations are correct). So I was there in 1981 when Darwin appointed Klemp as the new LEM, but Darwin hung around to handle the money part of things. And I was there in 1983 when Klemp kicked Darwin out. The best place to read about this is probably in Ford Johnson's book because Ford was very high up in Eckankar's structure at the time.

        When Darwin was kicked out, Klemp was talking a lot about how "You follow the Mahanta, not the personality," meaning that the Eck membership should be following the inner master, in other words, Klemp. The founder of Eckankar, Paul Twitchell emphasized this many times in his talks, that you don't follow the personality, even commenting humorously "I actually don't have very much personality."

        I heard from someone, I don't remember who, that when Darwin got kicked out, a third of Eckankar's members left. Many of them followed Darwin, but I'm sure many did not.

        Darwin is generally credited with building Eckankar's membership roles up. For one thing, he was a lot more charismatic that Klemp, although it was a quiet charisma, not flamboyant like a fundamentalist preacher or something like that.

        But sometime over the past ten years or more, Eckankar has been turned into a "worship Harold Klemp cult." I have listed some of my evidence below:

        1. The secret publications are full of color group photos of 20 to 80 Eckists and there is always a photo of Klemp in front of the first row, many times it is a very large photo about 2.5 feet high. This is done to encourage people to worship Klemp. It is not rare to see four or five of these photos in one small bulletin which is sent out to Eckankar's members.
        2. The Eck centers in 1979-1983 had a small table with some flowers and a small (8x10?) photo of the LEM (Darwin or Klemp). It was much the same that you would see at a Transcendental Meditation meeting back then. Now the Eck centers have a huge photo of Klemp high up on the wall with Klemp staring down at everybody. Obviously, this is meant as a power trip to place Klemp way above everybody else. In my opinion, this encourages people to worship Klemp.
        3. In the secret writings, Klemp states that members should love him (must love him?) and if they don't then they will be held back spiritually. In my opinion, this is another example of Klemp using his big ego to control his followers.

        Please note that I already discussed numbers 1 through 3 in a post or posts from Dec 2008 to early 2009 when I first left Eckankar. But I would like to add a number 4 here.

        4. One day in my last month or two as a member of Eckankar, I was st the local Eck center, and I mentioned in a roundabout way that Klemp wasn't always going to be here, and that people shouldn't be placing so much attention on him. Boy! People looked at me like they thought I was a complete nut case! I made the statement because I was thinking about the large number of members who left Eckankar when Darwin was kicked out. And I was thinking that when Klemp died, I was seeing the loss of members as being potentially much worse.

        Jonathan


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Zoey and All,
        > Yes, many ECKists followed Darwin
        > and left Eckankar with him. Most
        > Satsangs were devastated due to
        > the schism. It took many years for
        > Eckankar to recover and Klemp used
        > this to his benefit to do his personalized
        > reconstruction of the church.
        >
        >
        > zoey wrote:
        >
        > I wasn't associated with eckankar for very long, but I did make it my business
        > to learn a good deal about its history. And I always assumed that all the
        > eckists 'shunned' Darwin when Klemp ousted him. But I have recently met a guy
        > who left with Darwin, and still, to this day, considers Darwin to be his
        > 'Master'.
        >
        > Do you think there was a lot of this? I mean, a lot of people who followed
        > Darwin out? Somehow, this amazes me.
        >
        > zoey
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello All, I can remember Klemp chastising a woman for adoringly addressing him with a question at a mid-1980 s Spiritual Laws Seminar Q & A session in
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 6, 2010
          Hello All,
          I can remember Klemp chastising a woman
          for adoringly addressing him with a question
          at a mid-1980's Spiritual Laws Seminar Q & A
          session in Toronto. The way in which he derided
          her was cruel hearted and lacked compassion.
          The lady was both embarrassed and crushed.
          But, Klemp made his point to those present
          that he was not to be worshipped. That all
          changed in the '90s!

          Klemp said in his 1983 tape, for H.I.s,
          that Darwin was a Black Magician and
          that looking at his picture or reading
          his words could influence ECKists psychically.
          This was the cue for us to purge the EK
          Centers of all of Darwin's pictures and
          books... and we did! But, why don't Klemp's
          books and pictures have a Lower Plane
          psychic influence as well? They do!

          And, look at Klemp's "Official Picture."
          It's 10 years old! This proves that Klemp
          is Vain, and Vanity is of the Astral Plane.
          Thus, Klemp is a trickster too and a Black
          Magician and a KAL agent!

          Yes, Klemp didn't like being the second
          banana on stage with Darwin. It seemed
          nice while it lasted... two EK Masters working
          together in harmony and for the good of
          all, or so we thought at the time.

          Also, Klemp likes to talk in third person
          when he too (as Twit did) speaks or writes
          of the Mahanta (himself) and all that the
          Mahanta is and can do. In his Autobiography
          Klemp points out (pg. 385) that the "God"
          all religions "worship" (except Eckankar)
          is just a 2nd or 4th Plane God (the KAL,
          i.e. Satan, Devil) while the Mahanta (Klemp)
          is of the 14th Plane.

          Why is Klemp so surprised that Eckists
          worship him (the Mahanta)? Actually this
          was Klemp's plan, not early on, but later.
          After all, the ECK Worship Services are
          designed around the "worship" of the ECK/
          Mahanta (Klemp). That's another thing!
          Klemp has even stated that he, the
          Mahanta, is the ECK and/or is "one" with
          the ECK (Holy Spirit). Thus, Klemp did
          a 180 degree turn around from that little
          speech he gave at that Spiritual Laws
          Seminar, around 1984-85, in Toronto.
          The only thing that's remained the same
          is HK's mean spirited two-faced nature.

          That reminds me of Klemp not attending
          his father's funeral. Klemp's father died one
          month after Twitchell on Oct. 17, 1971.

          Klemp claimed, later, that he had a dream
          with PT naming him the LEM. Therefore he
          wanted to attend the 1971 Worldwide seminar
          and take his rightful place on the EK throne.
          That really wasn't the case however. That was
          just a story he made up later after the fact
          of lying in wait and becoming the LEM. This
          story was given in order for Klemp to have
          some validity via Twitchell. Funny that Gail
          had the same idea in regards to Darwin, or
          did Klemp just copy her? Anyway, Harry
          gave this, too, as an excuse to justify attending
          the 1971 EK Worldwide Seminar instead
          of his father's funeral.

          However, Klemp added another, Christian/
          Jesus, element to his excuse as well. HK
          quoted what Jesus, supposedly, said
          according to Luke 9:59-62 and Matthew
          8:22 (18-23): "Let the dead bury the dead."
          This was in regard to Harold's family. This
          included his mother, two brothers and sister
          (among others) that Harold was referring
          to.

          HK's whole family supported him (with love)
          and financed his stay at the all boys Lutheran
          high school and seminary. Harry, even then,
          was an angry and cold hearted social misfit
          with psychological issues. He saw his father
          and mother and others as being "spiritually
          dead." What's really bad, and sad for EKists,
          is that Klemp never changed his opinion or
          position of what he said and did back in Oct.
          1971. Even today, as the Mahanta, he justifies
          what he did with "Let the dead bury the dead"
          quote that he used to explain his actions.
          Of course, there's that so-called "dream,"
          with PT, he had as well.

          Prometheus



          jonathan wrote:
          >
          > Zoey,
          >
          > I joined in 1979 when Darwin was in his last 4-5 years in Eckankar (if my
          calculations are correct). So I was there in 1981 when Darwin appointed Klemp as
          the new LEM, but Darwin hung around to handle the money part of things. And I
          was there in 1983 when Klemp kicked Darwin out. The best place to read about
          this is probably in Ford Johnson's book because Ford was very high up in
          Eckankar's structure at the time.
          >
          > When Darwin was kicked out, Klemp was talking a lot about how "You follow the
          Mahanta, not the personality," meaning that the Eck membership should be
          following the inner master, in other words, Klemp. The founder of Eckankar, Paul
          Twitchell emphasized this many times in his talks, that you don't follow the
          personality, even commenting humorously "I actually don't have very much
          personality."
          >
          > I heard from someone, I don't remember who, that when Darwin got kicked out, a
          third of Eckankar's members left. Many of them followed Darwin, but I'm sure
          many did not.
          >
          > Darwin is generally credited with building Eckankar's membership roles up. For
          one thing, he was a lot more charismatic that Klemp, although it was a quiet
          charisma, not flamboyant like a fundamentalist preacher or something like that.
          >
          > But sometime over the past ten years or more, Eckankar has been turned into a
          "worship Harold Klemp cult." I have listed some of my evidence below:
          >
          > 1. The secret publications are full of color group photos of 20 to 80 Eckists
          and there is always a photo of Klemp in front of the first row, many times it is
          a very large photo about 2.5 feet high. This is done to encourage people to
          worship Klemp. It is not rare to see four or five of these photos in one small
          bulletin which is sent out to Eckankar's members.

          > 2. The Eck centers in 1979-1983 had a small table with some flowers and a
          small (8x10?) photo of the LEM (Darwin or Klemp). It was much the same that you
          would see at a Transcendental Meditation meeting back then. Now the Eck centers
          have a huge photo of Klemp high up on the wall with Klemp staring down at
          everybody. Obviously, this is meant as a power trip to place Klemp way above
          everybody else. In my opinion, this encourages people to worship Klemp.

          > 3. In the secret writings, Klemp states that members should love him (must
          love him?) and if they don't then they will be held back spiritually. In my
          opinion, this is another example of Klemp using his big ego to control his
          followers.
          >
          > Please note that I already discussed numbers 1 through 3 in a post or posts
          from Dec 2008 to early 2009 when I first left Eckankar. But I would like to add
          a number 4 here.
          >
          > 4. One day in my last month or two as a member of Eckankar, I was st the local
          Eck center, and I mentioned in a roundabout way that Klemp wasn't always going
          to be here, and that people shouldn't be placing so much attention on him. Boy!
          People looked at me like they thought I was a complete nut case! I made the
          statement because I was thinking about the large number of members who left
          Eckankar when Darwin was kicked out. And I was thinking that when Klemp died, I
          was seeing the loss of members as being potentially much worse.
          >
          > Jonathan
          >
          >

          <prometheus_973@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello Zoey and All,
          > > Yes, many ECKists followed Darwin
          > > and left Eckankar with him. Most
          > > Satsangs were devastated due to
          > > the schism. It took many years for
          > > Eckankar to recover and Klemp used
          > > this to his benefit to do his personalized
          > > reconstruction of the church.
          > >
          > >
          > > zoey wrote:
          > >
          > > I wasn't associated with eckankar for very long, but I did make it my
          business
          > > to learn a good deal about its history. And I always assumed that all the
          > > eckists 'shunned' Darwin when Klemp ousted him. But I have recently met a
          guy
          > > who left with Darwin, and still, to this day, considers Darwin to be his
          > > 'Master'.
          > >
          > > Do you think there was a lot of this? I mean, a lot of people who followed
          > > Darwin out? Somehow, this amazes me.
          > >
          > > zoey
          > >
        • avonblue1212
          I think Klemp s newest photos are very interesting and revealing of where this path is going. First there s the cloud photo Klemp smiling and poking his
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 7, 2010
            I think Klemp's newest photos are very interesting and revealing of where this path is going. First there's the "cloud photo" Klemp smiling and poking his head thru a sunburst cloud in the sky. Implies to me that he's above all - god himself. Then there is the 'family shot'; Klemp and Joan together. What are new chelas to think of this? Is Joan an LEM also? Or is this a lead in to this possibly happening?

            AB

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > I can remember Klemp chastising a woman
            > for adoringly addressing him with a question
            > at a mid-1980's Spiritual Laws Seminar Q & A
            > session in Toronto. The way in which he derided
            > her was cruel hearted and lacked compassion.
            > The lady was both embarrassed and crushed.
            > But, Klemp made his point to those present
            > that he was not to be worshipped. That all
            > changed in the '90s!
            >
            > Klemp said in his 1983 tape, for H.I.s,
            > that Darwin was a Black Magician and
            > that looking at his picture or reading
            > his words could influence ECKists psychically.
            > This was the cue for us to purge the EK
            > Centers of all of Darwin's pictures and
            > books... and we did! But, why don't Klemp's
            > books and pictures have a Lower Plane
            > psychic influence as well? They do!
            >
            > And, look at Klemp's "Official Picture."
            > It's 10 years old! This proves that Klemp
            > is Vain, and Vanity is of the Astral Plane.
            > Thus, Klemp is a trickster too and a Black
            > Magician and a KAL agent!
            >
            > Yes, Klemp didn't like being the second
            > banana on stage with Darwin. It seemed
            > nice while it lasted... two EK Masters working
            > together in harmony and for the good of
            > all, or so we thought at the time.
            >
            > Also, Klemp likes to talk in third person
            > when he too (as Twit did) speaks or writes
            > of the Mahanta (himself) and all that the
            > Mahanta is and can do. In his Autobiography
            > Klemp points out (pg. 385) that the "God"
            > all religions "worship" (except Eckankar)
            > is just a 2nd or 4th Plane God (the KAL,
            > i.e. Satan, Devil) while the Mahanta (Klemp)
            > is of the 14th Plane.
            >
            > Why is Klemp so surprised that Eckists
            > worship him (the Mahanta)? Actually this
            > was Klemp's plan, not early on, but later.
            > After all, the ECK Worship Services are
            > designed around the "worship" of the ECK/
            > Mahanta (Klemp). That's another thing!
            > Klemp has even stated that he, the
            > Mahanta, is the ECK and/or is "one" with
            > the ECK (Holy Spirit). Thus, Klemp did
            > a 180 degree turn around from that little
            > speech he gave at that Spiritual Laws
            > Seminar, around 1984-85, in Toronto.
            > The only thing that's remained the same
            > is HK's mean spirited two-faced nature.
            >
            > That reminds me of Klemp not attending
            > his father's funeral. Klemp's father died one
            > month after Twitchell on Oct. 17, 1971.
            >
            > Klemp claimed, later, that he had a dream
            > with PT naming him the LEM. Therefore he
            > wanted to attend the 1971 Worldwide seminar
            > and take his rightful place on the EK throne.
            > That really wasn't the case however. That was
            > just a story he made up later after the fact
            > of lying in wait and becoming the LEM. This
            > story was given in order for Klemp to have
            > some validity via Twitchell. Funny that Gail
            > had the same idea in regards to Darwin, or
            > did Klemp just copy her? Anyway, Harry
            > gave this, too, as an excuse to justify attending
            > the 1971 EK Worldwide Seminar instead
            > of his father's funeral.
            >
            > However, Klemp added another, Christian/
            > Jesus, element to his excuse as well. HK
            > quoted what Jesus, supposedly, said
            > according to Luke 9:59-62 and Matthew
            > 8:22 (18-23): "Let the dead bury the dead."
            > This was in regard to Harold's family. This
            > included his mother, two brothers and sister
            > (among others) that Harold was referring
            > to.
            >
            > HK's whole family supported him (with love)
            > and financed his stay at the all boys Lutheran
            > high school and seminary. Harry, even then,
            > was an angry and cold hearted social misfit
            > with psychological issues. He saw his father
            > and mother and others as being "spiritually
            > dead." What's really bad, and sad for EKists,
            > is that Klemp never changed his opinion or
            > position of what he said and did back in Oct.
            > 1971. Even today, as the Mahanta, he justifies
            > what he did with "Let the dead bury the dead"
            > quote that he used to explain his actions.
            > Of course, there's that so-called "dream,"
            > with PT, he had as well.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            > jonathan wrote:
            > >
            > > Zoey,
            > >
            > > I joined in 1979 when Darwin was in his last 4-5 years in Eckankar (if my
            > calculations are correct). So I was there in 1981 when Darwin appointed Klemp as
            > the new LEM, but Darwin hung around to handle the money part of things. And I
            > was there in 1983 when Klemp kicked Darwin out. The best place to read about
            > this is probably in Ford Johnson's book because Ford was very high up in
            > Eckankar's structure at the time.
            > >
            > > When Darwin was kicked out, Klemp was talking a lot about how "You follow the
            > Mahanta, not the personality," meaning that the Eck membership should be
            > following the inner master, in other words, Klemp. The founder of Eckankar, Paul
            > Twitchell emphasized this many times in his talks, that you don't follow the
            > personality, even commenting humorously "I actually don't have very much
            > personality."
            > >
            > > I heard from someone, I don't remember who, that when Darwin got kicked out, a
            > third of Eckankar's members left. Many of them followed Darwin, but I'm sure
            > many did not.
            > >
            > > Darwin is generally credited with building Eckankar's membership roles up. For
            > one thing, he was a lot more charismatic that Klemp, although it was a quiet
            > charisma, not flamboyant like a fundamentalist preacher or something like that.
            > >
            > > But sometime over the past ten years or more, Eckankar has been turned into a
            > "worship Harold Klemp cult." I have listed some of my evidence below:
            > >
            > > 1. The secret publications are full of color group photos of 20 to 80 Eckists
            > and there is always a photo of Klemp in front of the first row, many times it is
            > a very large photo about 2.5 feet high. This is done to encourage people to
            > worship Klemp. It is not rare to see four or five of these photos in one small
            > bulletin which is sent out to Eckankar's members.
            >
            > > 2. The Eck centers in 1979-1983 had a small table with some flowers and a
            > small (8x10?) photo of the LEM (Darwin or Klemp). It was much the same that you
            > would see at a Transcendental Meditation meeting back then. Now the Eck centers
            > have a huge photo of Klemp high up on the wall with Klemp staring down at
            > everybody. Obviously, this is meant as a power trip to place Klemp way above
            > everybody else. In my opinion, this encourages people to worship Klemp.
            >
            > > 3. In the secret writings, Klemp states that members should love him (must
            > love him?) and if they don't then they will be held back spiritually. In my
            > opinion, this is another example of Klemp using his big ego to control his
            > followers.
            > >
            > > Please note that I already discussed numbers 1 through 3 in a post or posts
            > from Dec 2008 to early 2009 when I first left Eckankar. But I would like to add
            > a number 4 here.
            > >
            > > 4. One day in my last month or two as a member of Eckankar, I was st the local
            > Eck center, and I mentioned in a roundabout way that Klemp wasn't always going
            > to be here, and that people shouldn't be placing so much attention on him. Boy!
            > People looked at me like they thought I was a complete nut case! I made the
            > statement because I was thinking about the large number of members who left
            > Eckankar when Darwin was kicked out. And I was thinking that when Klemp died, I
            > was seeing the loss of members as being potentially much worse.
            > >
            > > Jonathan
            > >
            > >
            >
            > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello Zoey and All,
            > > > Yes, many ECKists followed Darwin
            > > > and left Eckankar with him. Most
            > > > Satsangs were devastated due to
            > > > the schism. It took many years for
            > > > Eckankar to recover and Klemp used
            > > > this to his benefit to do his personalized
            > > > reconstruction of the church.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > zoey wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I wasn't associated with eckankar for very long, but I did make it my
            > business
            > > > to learn a good deal about its history. And I always assumed that all the
            > > > eckists 'shunned' Darwin when Klemp ousted him. But I have recently met a
            > guy
            > > > who left with Darwin, and still, to this day, considers Darwin to be his
            > > > 'Master'.
            > > >
            > > > Do you think there was a lot of this? I mean, a lot of people who followed
            > > > Darwin out? Somehow, this amazes me.
            > > >
            > > > zoey
            > > >
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Avonblue and All, The cloud photo of Klemp is representative of the Sky God or Our Father in Heaven. Klemp has been undermining the original
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 7, 2010
              Hello Avonblue and All,
              The "cloud photo" of Klemp is representative
              of the "Sky God" or "Our Father in Heaven."
              Klemp has been undermining the original
              (borrowed/compiled) teachings of Twitchell
              for years and years by reinventing Eckankar
              and making it into a more Christian/Lutheran
              version.

              BTW-Klemp even favors the King James
              version of the Christian Bible which (according
              to theologians) is the most inaccurate version
              published. King James is the version that the
              angry, ignorant fundamentalists (hypocritical,
              doom & gloom Bible thumpers) choose to use.
              Apparently it was the version they used in the
              Lutheran Seminary Klemp attended.

              No, Joan's not a LEM and never will be! However,
              Klemp was setting her up to become a 12th
              initiate (ECK Master) in his book "Those Wonderful
              ECK Masters," but it was Mish that exposed
              his lame plan. Thus, Klemp (temporarily) put
              the brakes on announcing Joan's promotion
              after seeing his plan exposed on this site.
              Like I said, No Female can become the LEM
              due to PT's "science" of a negative atom/battery
              theory, but females could become 12th Initiates
              (ECK Masters). Not all 12ths are LEMs since
              they have to be invited into the (imaginary)
              Vairagi Order. The truth is that the religious
              leader or head of the "church" can do what he
              wants. Klemp (as PT did) makes and changes
              the rules (dogma) as he sees fit. ECKists will
              go along with whatever excuse/ekplanation
              that he dreams up!

              A couple of Worldwide's ago Klemp had
              scheduled Joan to be on stage with him
              in order to announce her promotion to
              the 12th (ECK Master status), but he changed
              his mind in the last minute after she muffed
              "The Little HU Song" or whatever it was called.
              This annoyed Klemp. How could an EK Master
              (a 12th initiate) muff such a simple song?
              Thus, Klemp withheld the promotion and,
              instead, made fun of Joan and embarrassed
              her. He said: sometimes I have to tell her
              to close her mouth when she's talking
              too much! [I didn't put it in quotes since
              I'm not certain if those were his exact words,
              but I think they were]

              Anyway, I'm surprised that every ECKist just
              sat there and took the insult as something
              acceptable for "the Mahanta" to say. Maybe
              some discussed it later, or just said "Wow!"
              This is just more proof that Klemp is Not what
              he claims to be and that he's two-faced. No
              real "Master" would do such a thing. However,
              just imagine the insults he uses toward Joan
              behind closed doors! Sadly, for most ECKists,
              it's "the only game in town" so they put up
              with it and turn a blind-eye and deaf-ear to
              the Truth. Instead, Eckists go with the same
              religious B.S. explanations involving "belief"
              that they had heard prior to Eckankar.

              It's amazing that Eckists perspectives of
              "religion," over the years, hasn't really changed
              for the better. Critical thinking for these Eckists
              has either become clouded or nonexistent.
              They can't see the negative correlations with
              their own religion, Eckankar, and other religions.
              They've been tricked, again, for another lifetime!
              In some ways this can be seen as a "test" and
              that's true... it is! Still, I hate to see those that
              I helped to recruit into Eckankar being fooled
              by someone like Klemp.

              Prometheus


              avonblue wrote:

              I think Klemp's newest photos are very interesting
              and revealing of where this path is going. First there's
              the "cloud photo" Klemp smiling and poking his head
              thru a sunburst cloud in the sky. Implies to me that
              he's above all - god himself. Then there is the 'family
              shot'; Klemp and Joan together. What are new chelas
              to think of this? Is Joan an LEM also? Or is this a lead
              in to this possibly happening?

              AB

              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > I can remember Klemp chastising a woman
              > for adoringly addressing him with a question
              > at a mid-1980's Spiritual Laws Seminar Q & A
              > session in Toronto. The way in which he derided
              > her was cruel hearted and lacked compassion.
              > The lady was both embarrassed and crushed.
              > But, Klemp made his point to those present
              > that he was not to be worshipped. That all
              > changed in the '90s!
              >
              > Klemp said in his 1983 tape, for H.I.s,
              > that Darwin was a Black Magician and
              > that looking at his picture or reading
              > his words could influence ECKists psychically.
              > This was the cue for us to purge the EK
              > Centers of all of Darwin's pictures and
              > books... and we did! But, why don't Klemp's
              > books and pictures have a Lower Plane
              > psychic influence as well? They do!
              >
              > And, look at Klemp's "Official Picture."
              > It's 10 years old! This proves that Klemp
              > is Vain, and Vanity is of the Astral Plane.
              > Thus, Klemp is a trickster too and a Black
              > Magician and a KAL agent!
              >
              > Yes, Klemp didn't like being the second
              > banana on stage with Darwin. It seemed
              > nice while it lasted... two EK Masters working
              > together in harmony and for the good of
              > all, or so we thought at the time.
              >
              > Also, Klemp likes to talk in third person
              > when he too (as Twit did) speaks or writes
              > of the Mahanta (himself) and all that the
              > Mahanta is and can do. In his Autobiography
              > Klemp points out (pg. 385) that the "God"
              > all religions "worship" (except Eckankar)
              > is just a 2nd or 4th Plane God (the KAL,
              > i.e. Satan, Devil) while the Mahanta (Klemp)
              > is of the 14th Plane.
              >
              > Why is Klemp so surprised that Eckists
              > worship him (the Mahanta)? Actually this
              > was Klemp's plan, not early on, but later.
              > After all, the ECK Worship Services are
              > designed around the "worship" of the ECK/
              > Mahanta (Klemp). That's another thing!
              > Klemp has even stated that he, the
              > Mahanta, is the ECK and/or is "one" with
              > the ECK (Holy Spirit). Thus, Klemp did
              > a 180 degree turn around from that little
              > speech he gave at that Spiritual Laws
              > Seminar, around 1984-85, in Toronto.
              > The only thing that's remained the same
              > is HK's mean spirited two-faced nature.
              >
              > That reminds me of Klemp not attending
              > his father's funeral. Klemp's father died one
              > month after Twitchell on Oct. 17, 1971.
              >
              > Klemp claimed, later, that he had a dream
              > with PT naming him the LEM. Therefore he
              > wanted to attend the 1971 Worldwide seminar
              > and take his rightful place on the EK throne.
              > That really wasn't the case however. That was
              > just a story he made up later after the fact
              > of lying in wait and becoming the LEM. This
              > story was given in order for Klemp to have
              > some validity via Twitchell. Funny that Gail
              > had the same idea in regards to Darwin, or
              > did Klemp just copy her? Anyway, Harry
              > gave this, too, as an excuse to justify attending
              > the 1971 EK Worldwide Seminar instead
              > of his father's funeral.
              >
              > However, Klemp added another, Christian/
              > Jesus, element to his excuse as well. HK
              > quoted what Jesus, supposedly, said
              > according to Luke 9:59-62 and Matthew
              > 8:22 (18-23): "Let the dead bury the dead."
              > This was in regard to Harold's family. This
              > included his mother, two brothers and sister
              > (among others) that Harold was referring
              > to.
              >
              > HK's whole family supported him (with love)
              > and financed his stay at the all boys Lutheran
              > high school and seminary. Harry, even then,
              > was an angry and cold hearted social misfit
              > with psychological issues. He saw his father
              > and mother and others as being "spiritually
              > dead." What's really bad, and sad for EKists,
              > is that Klemp never changed his opinion or
              > position of what he said and did back in Oct.
              > 1971. Even today, as the Mahanta, he justifies
              > what he did with "Let the dead bury the dead"
              > quote that he used to explain his actions.
              > Of course, there's that so-called "dream,"
              > with PT, he had as well.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              >
              > jonathan wrote:
              > >
              Zoey,
              > >
              I joined in 1979 when Darwin was in his last 4-5 years in Eckankar (if my
              calculations are correct). So I was there in 1981 when Darwin appointed Klemp
              as the new LEM, but Darwin hung around to handle the money part of things. And I
              was there in 1983 when Klemp kicked Darwin out. The best place to read about
              this is probably in Ford Johnson's book because Ford was very high up in
              Eckankar's structure at the time.
              > >
              When Darwin was kicked out, Klemp was talking a lot about how "You follow
              the Mahanta, not the personality," meaning that the Eck membership should be
              following the inner master, in other words, Klemp. The founder of Eckankar,
              Paul Twitchell emphasized this many times in his talks, that you don't follow the
              personality, even commenting humorously "I actually don't have very much
              personality."
              > >
              I heard from someone, I don't remember who, that when Darwin got kicked out,
              a third of Eckankar's members left. Many of them followed Darwin, but I'm sure
              many did not.
              > >
              Darwin is generally credited with building Eckankar's membership roles up.
              For one thing, he was a lot more charismatic that Klemp, although it was a quiet
              charisma, not flamboyant like a fundamentalist preacher or something like
              that.
              > >
              But sometime over the past ten years or more, Eckankar has been turned into
              a "worship Harold Klemp cult." I have listed some of my evidence below:
              > >
              1. The secret publications are full of color group photos of 20 to 80
              Eckists and there is always a photo of Klemp in front of the first row, many times it
              is a very large photo about 2.5 feet high. This is done to encourage people to
              worship Klemp. It is not rare to see four or five of these photos in one small
              bulletin which is sent out to Eckankar's members.
              >
              2. The Eck centers in 1979-1983 had a small table with some flowers and a
              small (8x10?) photo of the LEM (Darwin or Klemp). It was much the same that
              you would see at a Transcendental Meditation meeting back then. Now the Eck
              centers have a huge photo of Klemp high up on the wall with Klemp staring down at
              everybody. Obviously, this is meant as a power trip to place Klemp way above
              everybody else. In my opinion, this encourages people to worship Klemp.
              >
              3. In the secret writings, Klemp states that members should love him (must
              love him?) and if they don't then they will be held back spiritually. In my
              opinion, this is another example of Klemp using his big ego to control his
              followers.
              > >
              Please note that I already discussed numbers 1 through 3 in a post or posts
              from Dec 2008 to early 2009 when I first left Eckankar. But I would like to
              add a number 4 here.
              > >
              4. One day in my last month or two as a member of Eckankar, I was st the
              local Eck center, and I mentioned in a roundabout way that Klemp wasn't always going
              to be here, and that people shouldn't be placing so much attention on him.
              Boy!

              > People looked at me like they thought I was a complete nut case! I made the
              > statement because I was thinking about the large number of members who left
              > Eckankar when Darwin was kicked out. And I was thinking that when Klemp died,
              I
              > was seeing the loss of members as being potentially much worse.
              > >
              > > Jonathan
              > >
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