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Re: An Eck story - Paul Twitchell and the "Potato Pizza Man"

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  • jonathanjohns96
    All, I just noticed that this sentence at the beginning in my previous post could be misread, and therefore misunderstood. I am concerned that the sentence
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 12, 2010
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      All,

      I just noticed that this sentence at the beginning in my previous post could be misread, and therefore misunderstood. I am concerned that the sentence could be misread to mean that what I said in my original post was a total lie. Here is the sentence:

      "When I discussed the man from India who combined two facts into a story that was a total lie, I said that both my friend and I believed that this man didn't know he was lying."

      This is my improved version:

      "In my original post I discussed the man from India who combined two facts together which then resulted in a story which was a total lie. I also stated in my original post that both my friend who told me the story and I believed that this man didn't know he was lying."

      Jonathan
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Jonathan and All, You make some good points and that gave me some other insights as to why people preach and seek religious dogma to fit their
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 15, 2010
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        Hello Jonathan and All,
        You make some good points and that
        gave me some other insights as to why
        people preach and seek religious dogma
        to fit their individual/group personalities.
        People are social animals and need various
        group consensuses in order to feel good
        about their self-image. We need to have
        a sense of belonging, otherwise,a social/
        psychological imbalance takes place.
        Then again, imbalance can often take
        place for an individual due to joining
        a group (religion/organization). This think/
        consciousness always has it's own rules,
        laws, and guidelines outside of normal
        society. However, for spiritual and
        creative growth to take place, one
        has to be able to be a free thinker and
        yet be a responsible member of society.
        The problem now is with the limited
        scope as to what people see/define as
        "society."

        I'll comment more below.



        jonathan wrote:

        Prometheus,

        "I forgot to mention one thing. When I discussed the man from India who combined
        two facts into a story that was a total lie, I said that both my friend and I
        believed that this man didn't know he was lying. I thought perhaps some
        pro-Eckankar people might think that Twitchell gets some compassion because he
        had a brain dysfunction whereby he didn't know he was lying. Whether he did or
        didn't have that, the fact is that he published books that were full of
        plagiarized material, so he is responsible for that, no matter what the original
        circumstances were."

        P- Actually Twitchell bought into another lie.
        Radhasoami and Ruhani Satsang were just other
        forms of the same old religious lie. The main
        difference between these two religions is who
        the living "Master" was/is. That's, basically,
        the same difference between these two religions
        and Eckankar. But, then again, all religions
        share some of the same beliefs, and all claim
        to be the best, highest and most accurate!
        I think that this is what Twitchell saw and since
        Kirpal Singh wasn't going to make him his U.S.
        Rep he decided to start his own New Age/Westernized
        version of these two religions. PT felt that he
        needed to give his new creation (and himself)
        some validity so he created Rebazar Tarzs and
        the lineage of ECK Masters. Therefore, Twit
        knew that it was all a lie. Both he and, especially,
        Gail saw this as an opportunity to combine/share/
        sell this new product (another religion) and see
        what developed. And, Eckankar did pay off!
        Maybe not as well as other New Age religions,
        like Scientology, but it didn't do too bad at
        bringing in the cash until recently.



        "So I guess there are three possibilities for Twitchell's lies:
        1. He had a brain dysfunction and didn't know he was lying.
        2. He knew he was lying, but did it anyway.
        3. He knew he was lying, but after doing it for such a long time, he got so used
        to it that it no longer seemed like lying."


        P- PT was pathological and a narcissist. He
        knew he was lying. He had been lying since
        age 27 according to Klemp. Over the years
        it became second nature to him. He was always
        "on-stage" and started to believe his own lies,
        thus, making him delusional as well. After all,
        he had to keep-up the act for his young wife.
        She was in on the lie from day one and Twit
        used her as a sounding board. She supported
        him and played a key role in structuring the
        whole scheme.


        "Regarding #2 and #3, I think he may have been under pressure from his wife Gail
        to make a decent living for them. I honestly believe that he wrote most of his
        stuff down as just a private diary. He never intended to start a metaphysical
        group (according to Twitchell he did not start a religion). But then after
        pressure from Gail to "Do something with your life!" he started Eckankar, never
        actually believing that it would ever catch on anyway. As he progressed he made
        a few "corrections" such as changing the name of Kirpal Singh, then had to add
        lies later to cover up the original lies. Before long, it snowballed into one
        big mess."


        P-I completely agree with the above! Twit had
        written fictional articles for Ripley's Believe It Or
        Not and had also been caught plagiarizing by Orion.
        Therefore, one just needs to take another religion's
        dogma and alter it to fit your own purposes. Why
        reinvent the wheel? The history, myth, and lies
        of other religions can be added and altered to that
        of the newly created one! Voila'! Yes, Gail is as
        responsible for the lies as much as (if not more)
        than what Twit is. And, Klemp knows that it's all
        a scam as well! That's why he hides out instead
        of being more visible as a local public or religious
        leader here in Chanhassen. Klemp could have
        a radio program, but he "can't take the heat"
        so he stays out of the kitchen.



        "But the bottom line is, he had a "personal diary" plus a bunch of plagiarized
        stuff. He took that and tried to change it into "the word of God." It's probably
        the same thing that hundreds of people had successfully done before him to start
        religions, but in the modern age he wasn't able to get away with it."



        P- Well, this is why Klemp tries to keep
        his followers off the Internet by promoting
        EMR/EMF fears. HK doesn't want his people
        reading and researching and thinking too
        much. This is why ECKists are encouraged
        to read ONLY approved/recommended EK
        books. Tunnel vision (limited focus) and
        pretending (imagining) is encouraged.
        Delusional thinking becomes A Way Of Life!




        "I realize that my excuses for Twitchell are being way too kind to him, but I
        thought I would try to get into the heads of some of Twitchell's fans and
        perhaps try to figure out what they might be thinking. Also, I think when I left
        Eckankar I probably thought up some of these excuses, but in the end they just
        didn't wash out. When I first saw the documentation showing entire paragraphs
        copied from "The Path Of The Masters" I think that was when I really had to face
        the fact that Twitchell plagiarized a large amount of material almost word for
        word (credit given to the research by David Lane and Ford Johnson). At that
        point I was very close to leaving Eckankar."


        P- Twit was a likable character and could spin
        a good yarn. That's what many of these characters
        did back in those days. They even had local "Liars"
        clubs back then. It was seen as good sport until
        honest hard-working people were flim-flammed
        out of their hard earned money by a snake-oil
        salesman. Twit became a snake-oil salesman,
        but rationalized it all by saying he was doing
        a "service" for people. He attracted a certain
        disillusioned New Age group of people and gave
        them something different to believe in. Of course
        it took the same kind of "faith" and belief as their
        previous religions did, but this (Eckankar) was
        different and a "faster" Journey and a "higher"
        Truth than any religion could offer ever before.
        The Best and Fastest (most direct)! Who could
        resist that promise? And, you can "prove" it to
        yourself! Just read the material and your mind
        will focus itself on certain (conscious/unconscious)
        expectations that will manifest via dreams or
        "signs."

        Anyway, it's rather funny that this is exactly
        how other religious beliefs work too!
        These Religions all seem to have followers that
        exclude, or belittle, the "spiritual" experiences
        of non-believers! One has to be in the same club.
        But, even then, there's the hierarchy that promotes
        equality (as Soul) while excluding people due
        to rank (the highest can only be desired and
        imagined). There's the Catch-22. If one has
        desires (even for God-Realization or for initiation
        rank) it cannot be attained, unless, you
        imagine someone else can give it to you.
        Religion is just a bunch of futuristic promises
        that can help give masses of people some
        comfort... sometimes. But, it's all most people
        have. And, what else do they have except these
        promises? It's like a pyramid scheme. The ones
        that buy-in, early on, benefit the most, except,
        those initiations are phony... and look at all
        of the time that was wasted... not to mention
        the money wasted! Finding out the real Truth
        hurt because we learned that, once again, we
        were suckered by another religion! And, what
        did we have to replace it with? This is probably
        why most ECKists stay. They "need" a religion!

        Prometheus





        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello Jonathan,
        > I really like this story because it shows
        > how pathological liars (like Twitchell)
        > can develop and hone their skills. It
        > could be that their brains get info
        > confused, or crossed connected. Thus,
        > they have compensated/adjusted
        > in order to hide this affliction over
        > the years. However, this also shows
        > a disassociation with society via deviant
        > behaviour. Twitchell was also a narcissist
        > and his lies fed his ego. He was fooling
        > people, some very intelligent, and these
        > "street smarts" became the foundation
        > for Eckankar.
        >
        >
        > Jonathan wrote:
        > I thought I would respond to HK's recent request for "Eck stories."
        > This story I am about to tell is a true story. I didn't make anything
        > up. I didn't exaggerate. I'm telling it exactly as it happened. Before
        > beginning the story I should tell you that Paul Twitchell never knew
        > the "Potato Pizza Man." Also, "Potato Pizza Man" is just a stupid nickname
        > that I made up for this person.
        >
        > Back in late 2008 I was on my way out of Eckankar after being a member for 29
        > years (1979-2008). I believe it was December. I had been reading Ford
        Johnson's
        > book. I was reading the section in the book where he is talking about Paul
        > Twitchell being a pathological liar. Ford went into a lot of detail, and
        > actually much more detail that I had the patience to read, but he at least
        > covered the entire subject very thoroughly which is a valuable asset for
        future
        > generations to have. I was already aware of Twitchell's plagiarism before I
        read
        > Ford's book, but the book did reinforce my knowledge, and even added to it
        with
        > his many detailed examples.
        >
        > Ford also discussed the various techniques that Twitchell used during his
        > fabrication of Eckankar. One of the things that Ford spoke about was how
        > Twitchell would take two completely unrelated pieces of information and then
        > piece them together into one thing. While I was reading this section something
        > kept popping into my mind. But then I would go back to reading, and it would
        pop
        > into my mind again. Finally, after about the third time, I stopped reading. I
        > said to myself "Why does "Joshi" (the guy that I knew at _________ University)
        > keep popping into my mind?" Then I thought back to my good friend from India
        > "Vijay."
        >
        > I knew "Vijay" very well, and he introduced me to several other guys from
        India
        > - one of them was named "Joshi." He was a very likable guy, always telling
        funny
        > stories. He had a lot of personality. He had lots of friends because everybody
        > liked to hear the interesting stories that he told.
        >
        > My good friend "Vijay" told me the following story. He and several other
        > Indians, including Joshi took a trip to _______ for an educational symposium.
        > They were all friends. After they got back, the bunch of them were standing in
        a
        > hallway talking to one of their professors. Vijay related the following story
        > about Joshi. This quote below is Joshi speaking. He is speaking to the
        professor
        > and telling him about their trip to the symposium in _______.
        >
        > Joshi "Yeah, we went to the symposium. We had a great time. We went to this
        > restaurant and had potato pizza. The restaurant was started by an Italian guy
        > and an Irish guy. They got together and thought up this great idea to start a
        > restaurant selling potato pizza."
        >
        > Vijay then explained to me as he seriously said "All us who went on the trip
        > just stood there silently." He lowered his voice as he said "The problem isÂ…
        > there was no potato pizza." He went on to explain. "They truth is, we went to
        an
        > Italian place for pizza, and we also went to an Irish pub for some drinks.
        Joshi
        > took these two completely unrelated events and put them together into this
        > "potato pizza story." Vijay was laughing as he told me. but he was laughing
        > mostly out of embarrassment or perhaps as a result of feeling incredulous. But
        > he went on to tell me this. "Joshi's mother came over from India to visit
        them.
        > She was talking to Vijay and her son Joshi's other Indian friends. She told
        > them. "When Joshi tells you things, be careful what you believe because he
        likes
        > to tell fibs." So the fact that his mother told Vijay and his friends this
        > statement indicates to me that "Joshi" was this way from a young age.
        >
        > I never really applied the term "pathological liar" to "Joshi" because I liked
        > the guy, but that is obviously what he was. The amazing thing is what Vijay
        told
        > me, and that is, Joshi has no idea that he is actually lying when he does
        this.
        > He's completely sincere. He has no clue that he is making stories up or lying.
        >
        > So, that's the story. Isn't it interesting how I knew this guy Joshi way back
        in
        > 1979? That he was a pathological liar, although a very nice one. That 1979 is
        > the same year that I joined Eckankar. That Eckankar is a religion that Paul
        > Twitchell stole from Indian religions, most notably Hinduism and Sikhism, or
        > derivatives of these two. It's way too many coincidences!
        >
        > So I'm going to send this story into Eckankar. I hope they print it.
        >
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