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Re: Are there any Eck songs on YouTube? - Additional comments

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Jonathan and All, Very good info and insight. Yes, Klemp s protecting other s (Eckankar s) copyrighted music (HU Chants too) so that he can sell the CDs. A
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 6, 2010
      Hi Jonathan and All,
      Very good info and insight. Yes, Klemp's
      protecting other's (Eckankar's) copyrighted
      music (HU Chants too) so that he can sell
      the CDs. A true Vahana and messenger for
      Sugmad would want this material out there
      on the Internet and Free to the public.

      Prometheus


      Jonathan wrote:

      I thought I would add some additional comments to my original post.

      First Point.
      The fact is, many individuals on YouTube use a copyrighted music file a backing
      track for a video, they then add some beautiful photos of their own such as the
      ocean, mountains, etc. Some of these videos are quite amazing and are a
      beautiful form of self-expression. Some of these videos get pulled from YouTube
      by the copy write owners, but many do not.

      Likewise, a member of Eckankar could do the same thing. They could take an Eck
      song from one of the official CDs that Eckankar sells and make it into a
      beautiful video, then post it on YouTube. But I didn't find a single instance of
      this on YouTube. There are two reasons for this:

      1. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copy-written material because it
      wants only the "official line" from Eckankar headquarters to be present on
      YouTube.

      2. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copyrighted material because it
      doesn't want to lose any income as a result of people giving it away for free.

      Second Point.
      Ever hear an Eckist tell a personal story on YouTube? I looked, and I didn't
      find a single instance. I've discussed this previously on other posts on the
      Internet, but Eckists are afraid to give their own personal stories and
      experiences regarding Eckankar. Currently, there are two videos on YouTube which
      masquerade as a personal story told by an Eckist, but it is pretty easy to see
      that these two videos are just slick "Madison Avenue" videos produced at
      Eckankar headquarters:

      Reincarnation Past Life Dream Interpretation via Eckankar
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nOvyUDObQI

      Out-of-body Experience with my deceased brother OBE Eckankar
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK9Teg3vly8&feature=related

      Third Point.
      So what kind of Eckankar videos are there on YouTube? It's mostly VERY SHORT
      videos with the current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. Almost all of them are
      less than five minutes long. They give you a very short glimpse of Eckankar,
      just enough to get you "sucked in" but not enough to really give you a decent
      amount of information so that you can actually do a worthwhile evaluation of
      Eckankar. Eckankar gives so little information out to the public on YouTube that
      any reasonable person would get the impression that Eckankar has a lot to hide.

      Fourth Point
      Eckankar has 5 minute videos of Klemp's talks on YouTube. I'm not certain, but I
      believe his talks typically run about 30 minutes. Contrast that with the
      following website dedicated to Paul Twitchell's teacher Kirpal Singh:

      Recorded talks of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to
      download.)
      http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audio.htm

      Audio books of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to download.)
      http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audiobook.htm

      In case anyone wonders "Do they really allow free download?" Here is a direct
      quote from the audio book page:

      "The 'books on CD'("audio books") in our collection have converted to MP3 files
      and can be downloaded here."

      So there is no doubt. It is all free!

      It has been awhile since I checked out Eckanakr's website, but I don't recall
      seeing any free downloads of talks or audio books. Ka ching, ka ching!

      So it's pretty clear, when it comes to spiritual knowledge:

      Paul Twitchell's followers (Eckankar): Copyright, protect, and restrict. Sell
      everything, no exceptions.
      Kirpal Singh's followers (Ruhani Satsang): Give away freely.

      I get sick of hearing members of Eckankar saying "But Eckankar doesn't cost that
      much." My reply to them is "Well it seems to me that you could be doing a whole
      lot better."

      Fifth Point
      Back when I was a "contented" member of Eckankar I always wondered "Why doesn't
      Eckankar convert all of Paul Twitchell's tapes to MP3 format, put them all on a
      CD and sell the CD for a reasonable price?" I realize now that there are two
      reasons for this:

      (1) Eckankar could no longer sell you one cassette tape for
      $8, and

      (2) Eckanakar doesn't want to preserve Paul's original tapes because
      there were too many times that he stuck his foot in his mouth or he
      just didn't agree with Klemp's modern-day "Christian-based approach"
      to selling Eckankar. And in case you are wondering, yes, I was very naive
      back in those days.



      <jonathanjohns wrote:
      >
      > A few weeks ago I guess I was almost having pity on Eckankar. Perhaps I was
      thinking things like "Maybe I've been too harsh on Eckankar" and "Maybe
      Eckankar isn't as bad as I think they are."
      >
      > So I decided to do an experiment. I was going to give Eckankar a fair chance.
      I decided to go over to YouTube and do a search for some Eckankar videos. Then I
      was going to watch the videos and do a completely fair evaluation of the
      content. Don't ask me why I was so generous because I don't know why. But I
      thought it would be a good idea to just "start from square one." Forget all of
      my personal issues with Eckankar and thoroughly dedicate myself to giving them a
      fair chance.
      >
      > The first thing I did was search for some Eckankar music. When I was a member
      of Eckankar I heard some "Eck songs" that I liked, and I was curious to see
      whether I could find a few of them on YouTube. For one thing, I was curious to
      see what my reaction would be when I listened to the songs. Would I cry? Would I
      feel nostalgic? So I did the search. This is my results:
      >
      > First search string --> Nothing
      > Second search string --> Nothing
      > Third search string --> Nothing
      > Fourth search string --> Nothing
      >
      > I honestly don't remember what I used to search, but I am pretty good at
      searching for things on the Internet.
      >
      > But my search results did prove one thing: There is no Eck music on YouTube!
      Well, at first I was kinda stumped. Why? Then it came to me... the sound of "ka
      ching" resonated in my head. Yes, it was all about money. It had to be! Eckankar
      doesn't give anything away - you have to pay for it. Which does prove one thing.
      That Spirit DOES give freely, except when it comes through Eckankar.
      >
    • jonathanjohns96
      Someone sent me an email pointing out there are several videos of HU Chants/HU Songs on YouTube. I m assuming that they are a member of Eckankar. Their email
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 12, 2010
        Someone sent me an email pointing out there are several videos of HU Chants/HU Songs on YouTube. I'm assuming that they are a member of Eckankar. Their email was polite, so I really don't care if they are a member.

        I just did a search on YouTube for Hu Chant and Hu Song. I found several examples of each. Some of the videos were obviously posted by Eckankar (HU Song), some of the others I'm not sure about (HU Chant). Some videos call it "HU Chant," a name that Eckankar hasn't officially used for a very long time. So it appears that perhaps some individuals have posted their own video with Eckankar's HU as a background, and Eckankar is looking the other way. But I'm also wondering whether Eckankar posted all of the videos.

        The fact is, Eckankar uses the HU to promote itself. It's rather noncontroversial and not offensive. There are no words to it, so there are no words to offend anybody or discourage them from joining Eckankar. So I guess for some unknown reason they may be more lenient about allowing individuals post videos using it.

        In one video, one person who was off camera was chanting the HU. But that is obviously not Eckankar's copy-written version of the HU, so they weren't breaking any copyright laws.

        Eckankar changed the name from "HU Chant" to "HU song" because they thought people would think that the word "chant" makes Eckankar sound like an Eastern religion. That could turn off some potential new members of Eckankar, hence the name change.
      • postekcon
        Eckankar is modeled an a simple mlm formula, where the affiliate fee [suggested membership donation] is reasonable. But where the real money is made for the
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 14, 2010
          Eckankar is modeled an a simple mlm formula, where the affiliate fee [suggested membership donation] is reasonable. But where the real money is made for the org is where the 'affiliate' must purchase and frequently update [always at personal expense] all the promotional materials. However, with eckankar.org, the affiliate is doubly tricked into the purchase of all these extraneous materials for promotion purposes, for it is suggested to them this constitutes their 'service' to spirit!
          -Postekcon


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
          >
          > I thought I would add some additional comments to my original post.
          >
          > First Point.
          > The fact is, many individuals on YouTube use a copyrighted music file a backing track for a video, they then add some beautiful photos of their own such as the ocean, mountains, etc. Some of these videos are quite amazing and are a beautiful form of self-expression. Some of these videos get pulled from YouTube by the copy write owners, but many do not.
          >
          > Likewise, a member of Eckankar could do the same thing. They could take an Eck song from one of the official CDs that Eckankar sells and make it into a beautiful video, then post it on YouTube. But I didn't find a single instance of this on YouTube. There are two reasons for this:
          >
          > 1. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copy-written material because it wants only the "official line" from Eckankar headquarters to be present on YouTube.
          > 2. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copyrighted material because it doesn't want to lose any income as a result of people giving it away for free.
          >
          > Second Point.
          > Ever hear an Eckist tell a personal story on YouTube? I looked, and I didn't find a single instance. I've discussed this previously on other posts on the Internet, but Eckists are afraid to give their own personal stories and experiences regarding Eckankar. Currently, there are two videos on YouTube which masquerade as a personal story told by an Eckist, but it is pretty easy to see that these two videos are just slick "Madison Avenue" videos produced at Eckankar headquarters:
          >
          > Reincarnation Past Life Dream Interpretation via Eckankar
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nOvyUDObQI
          >
          > Out-of-body Experience with my deceased brother OBE Eckankar
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK9Teg3vly8&feature=related
          >
          > Third Point.
          > So what kind of Eckankar videos are there on YouTube? It's mostly VERY SHORT videos with the current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. Almost all of them are less than five minutes long. They give you a very short glimpse of Eckankar, just enough to get you "sucked in" but not enough to really give you a decent amount of information so that you can actually do a worthwhile evaluation of Eckankar. Eckankar gives so little information out to the public on YouTube that any reasonable person would get the impression that Eckankar has a lot to hide.
          >
          > Fourth Point
          > Eckankar has 5 minute videos of Klemp's talks on YouTube. I'm not certain, but I believe his talks typically run about 30 minutes. Contrast that with the following website dedicated to Paul Twitchell's teacher Kirpal Singh:
          >
          > Recorded talks of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to download.)
          > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audio.htm
          >
          > Audio books of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to download.)
          > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audiobook.htm
          >
          > In case anyone wonders "Do they really allow free download?" Here is a direct quote from the audio book page:
          >
          > "The 'books on CD'("audio books") in our collection have converted to MP3 files and can be downloaded here."
          >
          > So there is no doubt. It is all free!
          >
          > It has been awhile since I checked out Eckanakr's website, but I don't recall seeing any free downloads of talks or audio books. Ka ching, ka ching!
          >
          > So it's pretty clear, when it comes to spiritual knowledge:
          >
          > Paul Twitchell's followers (Eckankar): Copyright, protect, and restrict. Sell everything, no exceptions.
          > Kirpal Singh's followers (Ruhani Satsang): Give away freely.
          >
          > I get sick of hearing members of Eckankar saying "But Eckankar doesn't cost that much." My reply to them is "Well it seems to me that you could be doing a whole lot better."
          >
          > Fifth Point
          > Back when I was a "contented" member of Eckankar I always wondered "Why doesn't Eckankar convert all of Paul Twitchell's tapes to MP3 format, put them all on a CD and sell the CD for a reasonable price?" I realize now that there are two reasons for this: (1) Eckankar could no longer sell you one cassette tape for $8, and (2) Eckanakar doesn't want to preserve Paul's original tapes because there were too many times that he stuck his foot in his mouth or he just didn't agree with Klemp's modern-day "Christian-based approach" to selling Eckankar. And in case you are wondering, yes, I was very naive back in those days.
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
          > >
          > > A few weeks ago I guess I was almost having pity on Eckankar. Perhaps I was thinking things like "Maybe I've been too harsh on Eckankar" and "Maybe Eckankar isn't as bad as I think they are."
          > >
          > > So I decided to do an experiment. I was going to give Eckankar a fair chance. I decided to go over to YouTube and do a search for some Eckankar videos. Then I was going to watch the videos and do a completely fair evaluation of the content. Don't ask me why I was so generous because I don't know why. But I thought it would be a good idea to just "start from square one." Forget all of my personal issues with Eckankar and thoroughly dedicate myself to giving them a fair chance.
          > >
          > > The first thing I did was search for some Eckankar music. When I was a member of Eckankar I heard some "Eck songs" that I liked, and I was curious to see whether I could find a few of them on YouTube. For one thing, I was curious to see what my reaction would be when I listened to the songs. Would I cry? Would I feel nostalgic? So I did the search. This is my results:
          > >
          > > First search string --> Nothing
          > > Second search string --> Nothing
          > > Third search string --> Nothing
          > > Fourth search string --> Nothing
          > >
          > > I honestly don't remember what I used to search, but I am pretty good at searching for things on the Internet.
          > >
          > > But my search results did prove one thing: There is no Eck music on YouTube! Well, at first I was kinda stumped. Why? Then it came to me... the sound of "ka ching" resonated in my head. Yes, it was all about money. It had to be! Eckankar doesn't give anything away - you have to pay for it. Which does prove one thing. That Spirit DOES give freely, except when it comes through Eckankar.
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Postekcon and All, Yes, Eckankar does make most of its money from material sales while promoting service as a spiritual reward. There s the catch. If
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 21, 2010
            Hello Postekcon and All,
            Yes, Eckankar does make most of its
            money from material sales while promoting
            service as a "spiritual reward." There's the
            catch. If an EKist seeks rewards then he/she
            can't be "detached" and this fact and condition,
            therefore, invalidates the higher spiritual reward
            from being received by an unworthy person who
            is, in fact, attached to lower mental plane concepts/
            traps. Service and coin are lower plane conditions
            put into place by the lower plane LEM and his
            church (Eckankar).

            What's really ironic is that most Eckists spend
            more money on their pilgrimage to the EK
            Temple in Chanhassen, MN.! When one looks
            at the cost of air fare and the hotel expenses
            and all of the other expenses associated with
            attending an EK Seminar these expenses out
            weigh all others expenses and donations to
            the ECK Org/Church! BTW- Why doesn't Klemp
            travel anymore? Why do EKists have to forgo
            their vacation days saved up for Minneapolis?
            What happened to Orlando? That would be a
            nice change and warmer too! Klemp doesn't
            give a sh_t about his chelas and H.I.s. Harry's
            selfish and narcissistic. Let's face it... Eckankar
            has become awfully dull with Klemp in charge
            for all these years.

            Prometheus

            postekcon wrote:

            Eckankar is modeled an a simple mlm formula, where the affiliate fee [suggested
            membership donation] is reasonable. But where the real money is made for the org
            is where the 'affiliate' must purchase and frequently update [always at personal
            expense] all the promotional materials. However, with eckankar.org, the
            affiliate is doubly tricked into the purchase of all these extraneous materials
            for promotion purposes, for it is suggested to them this constitutes their
            'service' to spirit!
            -Postekcon


            jonathanjohns wrote:
            >
            > I thought I would add some additional comments to my original post.
            >
            > First Point.
            > The fact is, many individuals on YouTube use a copyrighted music file a
            backing track for a video, they then add some beautiful photos of their own such
            as the ocean, mountains, etc. Some of these videos are quite amazing and are a
            beautiful form of self-expression. Some of these videos get pulled from YouTube
            by the copy write owners, but many do not.
            >
            > Likewise, a member of Eckankar could do the same thing. They could take an Eck
            song from one of the official CDs that Eckankar sells and make it into a
            beautiful video, then post it on YouTube. But I didn't find a single instance of
            this on YouTube. There are two reasons for this:
            >
            > 1. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copy-written material because it
            wants only the "official line" from Eckankar headquarters to be present on
            YouTube.
            > 2. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copyrighted material because it
            doesn't want to lose any income as a result of people giving it away for free.
            >
            > Second Point.
            > Ever hear an Eckist tell a personal story on YouTube? I looked, and I didn't
            find a single instance. I've discussed this previously on other posts on the
            Internet, but Eckists are afraid to give their own personal stories and
            experiences regarding Eckankar. Currently, there are two videos on YouTube which
            masquerade as a personal story told by an Eckist, but it is pretty easy to see
            that these two videos are just slick "Madison Avenue" videos produced at
            Eckankar headquarters:
            >
            > Reincarnation Past Life Dream Interpretation via Eckankar
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nOvyUDObQI
            >
            > Out-of-body Experience with my deceased brother OBE Eckankar
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK9Teg3vly8&feature=related
            >
            > Third Point.
            > So what kind of Eckankar videos are there on YouTube? It's mostly VERY SHORT
            videos with the current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. Almost all of them are
            less than five minutes long. They give you a very short glimpse of Eckankar,
            just enough to get you "sucked in" but not enough to really give you a decent
            amount of information so that you can actually do a worthwhile evaluation of
            Eckankar. Eckankar gives so little information out to the public on YouTube that
            any reasonable person would get the impression that Eckankar has a lot to hide.
            >
            > Fourth Point
            > Eckankar has 5 minute videos of Klemp's talks on YouTube. I'm not certain, but
            I believe his talks typically run about 30 minutes. Contrast that with the
            following website dedicated to Paul Twitchell's teacher Kirpal Singh:
            >
            > Recorded talks of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to
            download.)
            > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audio.htm
            >
            > Audio books of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to
            download.)
            > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audiobook.htm
            >
            > In case anyone wonders "Do they really allow free download?" Here is a direct
            quote from the audio book page:
            >
            > "The 'books on CD'("audio books") in our collection have converted to MP3
            files and can be downloaded here."
            >
            > So there is no doubt. It is all free!
            >
            > It has been awhile since I checked out Eckanakr's website, but I don't recall
            seeing any free downloads of talks or audio books. Ka ching, ka ching!
            >
            > So it's pretty clear, when it comes to spiritual knowledge:
            >
            > Paul Twitchell's followers (Eckankar): Copyright, protect, and restrict. Sell
            everything, no exceptions.
            > Kirpal Singh's followers (Ruhani Satsang): Give away freely.
            >
            > I get sick of hearing members of Eckankar saying "But Eckankar doesn't cost
            that much." My reply to them is "Well it seems to me that you could be doing a
            whole lot better."
            >
            > Fifth Point
            > Back when I was a "contented" member of Eckankar I always wondered "Why
            doesn't Eckankar convert all of Paul Twitchell's tapes to MP3 format, put them
            all on a CD and sell the CD for a reasonable price?" I realize now that there
            are two reasons for this: (1) Eckankar could no longer sell you one cassette
            tape for $8, and (2) Eckanakar doesn't want to preserve Paul's original tapes
            because there were too many times that he stuck his foot in his mouth or he just
            didn't agree with Klemp's modern-day "Christian-based approach" to selling
            Eckankar. And in case you are wondering, yes, I was very naive back in those
            days.
            >
            >

            <jonathanjohns wrote:
            > >
            > > A few weeks ago I guess I was almost having pity on Eckankar. Perhaps I was
            thinking things like "Maybe I've been too harsh on Eckankar" and "Maybe
            Eckankar isn't as bad as I think they are."
            > >
            > > So I decided to do an experiment. I was going to give Eckankar a fair
            chance. I decided to go over to YouTube and do a search for some Eckankar
            videos. Then I was going to watch the videos and do a completely fair evaluation
            of the content. Don't ask me why I was so generous because I don't know why. But
            I thought it would be a good idea to just "start from square one." Forget all of
            my personal issues with Eckankar and thoroughly dedicate myself to giving them a
            fair chance.
            > >
            > > The first thing I did was search for some Eckankar music. When I was a
            member of Eckankar I heard some "Eck songs" that I liked, and I was curious to
            see whether I could find a few of them on YouTube. For one thing, I was curious
            to see what my reaction would be when I listened to the songs. Would I cry?
            Would I feel nostalgic? So I did the search. This is my results:
            > >
            > > First search string --> Nothing
            > > Second search string --> Nothing
            > > Third search string --> Nothing
            > > Fourth search string --> Nothing
            > >
            > > I honestly don't remember what I used to search, but I am pretty good at
            searching for things on the Internet.
            > >
            > > But my search results did prove one thing: There is no Eck music on YouTube!
            Well, at first I was kinda stumped. Why? Then it came to me... the sound of "ka
            ching" resonated in my head. Yes, it was all about money. It had to be! Eckankar
            doesn't give anything away - you have to pay for it. Which does prove one thing.
            That Spirit DOES give freely, except when it comes through Eckankar.
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