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Are there any Eck songs on YouTube?

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  • jonathanjohns96
    A few weeks ago I guess I was almost having pity on Eckankar. Perhaps I was thinking things like Maybe I ve been too harsh on Eckankar and Maybe Eckankar
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 27, 2009
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      A few weeks ago I guess I was almost having pity on Eckankar. Perhaps I was thinking things like "Maybe I've been too harsh on Eckankar" and "Maybe Eckankar isn't as bad as I think they are."

      So I decided to do an experiment. I was going to give Eckankar a fair chance. I decided to go over to YouTube and do a search for some Eckankar videos. Then I was going to watch the videos and do a completely fair evaluation of the content. Don't ask me why I was so generous because I don't know why. But I thought it would be a good idea to just "start from square one." Forget all of my personal issues with Eckankar and thoroughly dedicate myself to giving them a fair chance.

      The first thing I did was search for some Eckankar music. When I was a member of Eckankar I heard some "Eck songs" that I liked, and I was curious to see whether I could find a few of them on YouTube. For one thing, I was curious to see what my reaction would be when I listened to the songs. Would I cry? Would I feel nostalgic? So I did the search. This is my results:

      First search string --> Nothing
      Second search string --> Nothing
      Third search string --> Nothing
      Fourth search string --> Nothing

      I honestly don't remember what I used to search, but I am pretty good at searching for things on the Internet.

      But my search results did prove one thing: There is no Eck music on YouTube! Well, at first I was kinda stumped. Why? Then it came to me... the sound of "ka ching" resonated in my head. Yes, it was all about money. It had to be! Eckankar doesn't give anything away - you have to pay for it. Which does prove one thing. That Spirit DOES give freely, except when it comes through Eckankar.
    • jonathanjohns96
      I thought I would add some additional comments to my original post. First Point. The fact is, many individuals on YouTube use a copyrighted music file a
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 27, 2009
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        I thought I would add some additional comments to my original post.

        First Point.
        The fact is, many individuals on YouTube use a copyrighted music file a backing track for a video, they then add some beautiful photos of their own such as the ocean, mountains, etc. Some of these videos are quite amazing and are a beautiful form of self-expression. Some of these videos get pulled from YouTube by the copy write owners, but many do not.

        Likewise, a member of Eckankar could do the same thing. They could take an Eck song from one of the official CDs that Eckankar sells and make it into a beautiful video, then post it on YouTube. But I didn't find a single instance of this on YouTube. There are two reasons for this:

        1. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copy-written material because it wants only the "official line" from Eckankar headquarters to be present on YouTube.
        2. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copyrighted material because it doesn't want to lose any income as a result of people giving it away for free.

        Second Point.
        Ever hear an Eckist tell a personal story on YouTube? I looked, and I didn't find a single instance. I've discussed this previously on other posts on the Internet, but Eckists are afraid to give their own personal stories and experiences regarding Eckankar. Currently, there are two videos on YouTube which masquerade as a personal story told by an Eckist, but it is pretty easy to see that these two videos are just slick "Madison Avenue" videos produced at Eckankar headquarters:

        Reincarnation Past Life Dream Interpretation via Eckankar
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nOvyUDObQI

        Out-of-body Experience with my deceased brother OBE Eckankar
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK9Teg3vly8&feature=related

        Third Point.
        So what kind of Eckankar videos are there on YouTube? It's mostly VERY SHORT videos with the current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. Almost all of them are less than five minutes long. They give you a very short glimpse of Eckankar, just enough to get you "sucked in" but not enough to really give you a decent amount of information so that you can actually do a worthwhile evaluation of Eckankar. Eckankar gives so little information out to the public on YouTube that any reasonable person would get the impression that Eckankar has a lot to hide.

        Fourth Point
        Eckankar has 5 minute videos of Klemp's talks on YouTube. I'm not certain, but I believe his talks typically run about 30 minutes. Contrast that with the following website dedicated to Paul Twitchell's teacher Kirpal Singh:

        Recorded talks of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to download.)
        http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audio.htm

        Audio books of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to download.)
        http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audiobook.htm

        In case anyone wonders "Do they really allow free download?" Here is a direct quote from the audio book page:

        "The 'books on CD'("audio books") in our collection have converted to MP3 files and can be downloaded here."

        So there is no doubt. It is all free!

        It has been awhile since I checked out Eckanakr's website, but I don't recall seeing any free downloads of talks or audio books. Ka ching, ka ching!

        So it's pretty clear, when it comes to spiritual knowledge:

        Paul Twitchell's followers (Eckankar): Copyright, protect, and restrict. Sell everything, no exceptions.
        Kirpal Singh's followers (Ruhani Satsang): Give away freely.

        I get sick of hearing members of Eckankar saying "But Eckankar doesn't cost that much." My reply to them is "Well it seems to me that you could be doing a whole lot better."

        Fifth Point
        Back when I was a "contented" member of Eckankar I always wondered "Why doesn't Eckankar convert all of Paul Twitchell's tapes to MP3 format, put them all on a CD and sell the CD for a reasonable price?" I realize now that there are two reasons for this: (1) Eckankar could no longer sell you one cassette tape for $8, and (2) Eckanakar doesn't want to preserve Paul's original tapes because there were too many times that he stuck his foot in his mouth or he just didn't agree with Klemp's modern-day "Christian-based approach" to selling Eckankar. And in case you are wondering, yes, I was very naive back in those days.


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
        >
        > A few weeks ago I guess I was almost having pity on Eckankar. Perhaps I was thinking things like "Maybe I've been too harsh on Eckankar" and "Maybe Eckankar isn't as bad as I think they are."
        >
        > So I decided to do an experiment. I was going to give Eckankar a fair chance. I decided to go over to YouTube and do a search for some Eckankar videos. Then I was going to watch the videos and do a completely fair evaluation of the content. Don't ask me why I was so generous because I don't know why. But I thought it would be a good idea to just "start from square one." Forget all of my personal issues with Eckankar and thoroughly dedicate myself to giving them a fair chance.
        >
        > The first thing I did was search for some Eckankar music. When I was a member of Eckankar I heard some "Eck songs" that I liked, and I was curious to see whether I could find a few of them on YouTube. For one thing, I was curious to see what my reaction would be when I listened to the songs. Would I cry? Would I feel nostalgic? So I did the search. This is my results:
        >
        > First search string --> Nothing
        > Second search string --> Nothing
        > Third search string --> Nothing
        > Fourth search string --> Nothing
        >
        > I honestly don't remember what I used to search, but I am pretty good at searching for things on the Internet.
        >
        > But my search results did prove one thing: There is no Eck music on YouTube! Well, at first I was kinda stumped. Why? Then it came to me... the sound of "ka ching" resonated in my head. Yes, it was all about money. It had to be! Eckankar doesn't give anything away - you have to pay for it. Which does prove one thing. That Spirit DOES give freely, except when it comes through Eckankar.
        >
      • mishmisha9
        Your observation is very good and most likely accurate!! It is about money . . . eckankar taking your money!! So dishonest of them as the top leaders live a
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 31, 2009
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          Your observation is very good and most likely accurate!! It is about
          money . . . eckankar taking your money!! So dishonest of them as
          the top leaders live a plush life while the chelas sacrifice more and
          more!


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
          >
          > A few weeks ago I guess I was almost having pity on Eckankar. Perhaps I was thinking things like "Maybe I've been too harsh on Eckankar" and "Maybe Eckankar isn't as bad as I think they are."
          >
          > So I decided to do an experiment. I was going to give Eckankar a fair chance. I decided to go over to YouTube and do a search for some Eckankar videos. Then I was going to watch the videos and do a completely fair evaluation of the content. Don't ask me why I was so generous because I don't know why. But I thought it would be a good idea to just "start from square one." Forget all of my personal issues with Eckankar and thoroughly dedicate myself to giving them a fair chance.
          >
          > The first thing I did was search for some Eckankar music. When I was a member of Eckankar I heard some "Eck songs" that I liked, and I was curious to see whether I could find a few of them on YouTube. For one thing, I was curious to see what my reaction would be when I listened to the songs. Would I cry? Would I feel nostalgic? So I did the search. This is my results:
          >
          > First search string --> Nothing
          > Second search string --> Nothing
          > Third search string --> Nothing
          > Fourth search string --> Nothing
          >
          > I honestly don't remember what I used to search, but I am pretty good at searching for things on the Internet.
          >
          > But my search results did prove one thing: There is no Eck music on YouTube! Well, at first I was kinda stumped. Why? Then it came to me... the sound of "ka ching" resonated in my head. Yes, it was all about money. It had to be! Eckankar doesn't give anything away - you have to pay for it. Which does prove one thing. That Spirit DOES give freely, except when it comes through Eckankar.
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Jonathan and All, Very good info and insight. Yes, Klemp s protecting other s (Eckankar s) copyrighted music (HU Chants too) so that he can sell the CDs. A
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 6, 2010
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            Hi Jonathan and All,
            Very good info and insight. Yes, Klemp's
            protecting other's (Eckankar's) copyrighted
            music (HU Chants too) so that he can sell
            the CDs. A true Vahana and messenger for
            Sugmad would want this material out there
            on the Internet and Free to the public.

            Prometheus


            Jonathan wrote:

            I thought I would add some additional comments to my original post.

            First Point.
            The fact is, many individuals on YouTube use a copyrighted music file a backing
            track for a video, they then add some beautiful photos of their own such as the
            ocean, mountains, etc. Some of these videos are quite amazing and are a
            beautiful form of self-expression. Some of these videos get pulled from YouTube
            by the copy write owners, but many do not.

            Likewise, a member of Eckankar could do the same thing. They could take an Eck
            song from one of the official CDs that Eckankar sells and make it into a
            beautiful video, then post it on YouTube. But I didn't find a single instance of
            this on YouTube. There are two reasons for this:

            1. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copy-written material because it
            wants only the "official line" from Eckankar headquarters to be present on
            YouTube.

            2. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copyrighted material because it
            doesn't want to lose any income as a result of people giving it away for free.

            Second Point.
            Ever hear an Eckist tell a personal story on YouTube? I looked, and I didn't
            find a single instance. I've discussed this previously on other posts on the
            Internet, but Eckists are afraid to give their own personal stories and
            experiences regarding Eckankar. Currently, there are two videos on YouTube which
            masquerade as a personal story told by an Eckist, but it is pretty easy to see
            that these two videos are just slick "Madison Avenue" videos produced at
            Eckankar headquarters:

            Reincarnation Past Life Dream Interpretation via Eckankar
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nOvyUDObQI

            Out-of-body Experience with my deceased brother OBE Eckankar
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK9Teg3vly8&feature=related

            Third Point.
            So what kind of Eckankar videos are there on YouTube? It's mostly VERY SHORT
            videos with the current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. Almost all of them are
            less than five minutes long. They give you a very short glimpse of Eckankar,
            just enough to get you "sucked in" but not enough to really give you a decent
            amount of information so that you can actually do a worthwhile evaluation of
            Eckankar. Eckankar gives so little information out to the public on YouTube that
            any reasonable person would get the impression that Eckankar has a lot to hide.

            Fourth Point
            Eckankar has 5 minute videos of Klemp's talks on YouTube. I'm not certain, but I
            believe his talks typically run about 30 minutes. Contrast that with the
            following website dedicated to Paul Twitchell's teacher Kirpal Singh:

            Recorded talks of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to
            download.)
            http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audio.htm

            Audio books of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to download.)
            http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audiobook.htm

            In case anyone wonders "Do they really allow free download?" Here is a direct
            quote from the audio book page:

            "The 'books on CD'("audio books") in our collection have converted to MP3 files
            and can be downloaded here."

            So there is no doubt. It is all free!

            It has been awhile since I checked out Eckanakr's website, but I don't recall
            seeing any free downloads of talks or audio books. Ka ching, ka ching!

            So it's pretty clear, when it comes to spiritual knowledge:

            Paul Twitchell's followers (Eckankar): Copyright, protect, and restrict. Sell
            everything, no exceptions.
            Kirpal Singh's followers (Ruhani Satsang): Give away freely.

            I get sick of hearing members of Eckankar saying "But Eckankar doesn't cost that
            much." My reply to them is "Well it seems to me that you could be doing a whole
            lot better."

            Fifth Point
            Back when I was a "contented" member of Eckankar I always wondered "Why doesn't
            Eckankar convert all of Paul Twitchell's tapes to MP3 format, put them all on a
            CD and sell the CD for a reasonable price?" I realize now that there are two
            reasons for this:

            (1) Eckankar could no longer sell you one cassette tape for
            $8, and

            (2) Eckanakar doesn't want to preserve Paul's original tapes because
            there were too many times that he stuck his foot in his mouth or he
            just didn't agree with Klemp's modern-day "Christian-based approach"
            to selling Eckankar. And in case you are wondering, yes, I was very naive
            back in those days.



            <jonathanjohns wrote:
            >
            > A few weeks ago I guess I was almost having pity on Eckankar. Perhaps I was
            thinking things like "Maybe I've been too harsh on Eckankar" and "Maybe
            Eckankar isn't as bad as I think they are."
            >
            > So I decided to do an experiment. I was going to give Eckankar a fair chance.
            I decided to go over to YouTube and do a search for some Eckankar videos. Then I
            was going to watch the videos and do a completely fair evaluation of the
            content. Don't ask me why I was so generous because I don't know why. But I
            thought it would be a good idea to just "start from square one." Forget all of
            my personal issues with Eckankar and thoroughly dedicate myself to giving them a
            fair chance.
            >
            > The first thing I did was search for some Eckankar music. When I was a member
            of Eckankar I heard some "Eck songs" that I liked, and I was curious to see
            whether I could find a few of them on YouTube. For one thing, I was curious to
            see what my reaction would be when I listened to the songs. Would I cry? Would I
            feel nostalgic? So I did the search. This is my results:
            >
            > First search string --> Nothing
            > Second search string --> Nothing
            > Third search string --> Nothing
            > Fourth search string --> Nothing
            >
            > I honestly don't remember what I used to search, but I am pretty good at
            searching for things on the Internet.
            >
            > But my search results did prove one thing: There is no Eck music on YouTube!
            Well, at first I was kinda stumped. Why? Then it came to me... the sound of "ka
            ching" resonated in my head. Yes, it was all about money. It had to be! Eckankar
            doesn't give anything away - you have to pay for it. Which does prove one thing.
            That Spirit DOES give freely, except when it comes through Eckankar.
            >
          • jonathanjohns96
            Someone sent me an email pointing out there are several videos of HU Chants/HU Songs on YouTube. I m assuming that they are a member of Eckankar. Their email
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 12, 2010
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              Someone sent me an email pointing out there are several videos of HU Chants/HU Songs on YouTube. I'm assuming that they are a member of Eckankar. Their email was polite, so I really don't care if they are a member.

              I just did a search on YouTube for Hu Chant and Hu Song. I found several examples of each. Some of the videos were obviously posted by Eckankar (HU Song), some of the others I'm not sure about (HU Chant). Some videos call it "HU Chant," a name that Eckankar hasn't officially used for a very long time. So it appears that perhaps some individuals have posted their own video with Eckankar's HU as a background, and Eckankar is looking the other way. But I'm also wondering whether Eckankar posted all of the videos.

              The fact is, Eckankar uses the HU to promote itself. It's rather noncontroversial and not offensive. There are no words to it, so there are no words to offend anybody or discourage them from joining Eckankar. So I guess for some unknown reason they may be more lenient about allowing individuals post videos using it.

              In one video, one person who was off camera was chanting the HU. But that is obviously not Eckankar's copy-written version of the HU, so they weren't breaking any copyright laws.

              Eckankar changed the name from "HU Chant" to "HU song" because they thought people would think that the word "chant" makes Eckankar sound like an Eastern religion. That could turn off some potential new members of Eckankar, hence the name change.
            • postekcon
              Eckankar is modeled an a simple mlm formula, where the affiliate fee [suggested membership donation] is reasonable. But where the real money is made for the
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 14, 2010
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                Eckankar is modeled an a simple mlm formula, where the affiliate fee [suggested membership donation] is reasonable. But where the real money is made for the org is where the 'affiliate' must purchase and frequently update [always at personal expense] all the promotional materials. However, with eckankar.org, the affiliate is doubly tricked into the purchase of all these extraneous materials for promotion purposes, for it is suggested to them this constitutes their 'service' to spirit!
                -Postekcon


                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
                >
                > I thought I would add some additional comments to my original post.
                >
                > First Point.
                > The fact is, many individuals on YouTube use a copyrighted music file a backing track for a video, they then add some beautiful photos of their own such as the ocean, mountains, etc. Some of these videos are quite amazing and are a beautiful form of self-expression. Some of these videos get pulled from YouTube by the copy write owners, but many do not.
                >
                > Likewise, a member of Eckankar could do the same thing. They could take an Eck song from one of the official CDs that Eckankar sells and make it into a beautiful video, then post it on YouTube. But I didn't find a single instance of this on YouTube. There are two reasons for this:
                >
                > 1. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copy-written material because it wants only the "official line" from Eckankar headquarters to be present on YouTube.
                > 2. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copyrighted material because it doesn't want to lose any income as a result of people giving it away for free.
                >
                > Second Point.
                > Ever hear an Eckist tell a personal story on YouTube? I looked, and I didn't find a single instance. I've discussed this previously on other posts on the Internet, but Eckists are afraid to give their own personal stories and experiences regarding Eckankar. Currently, there are two videos on YouTube which masquerade as a personal story told by an Eckist, but it is pretty easy to see that these two videos are just slick "Madison Avenue" videos produced at Eckankar headquarters:
                >
                > Reincarnation Past Life Dream Interpretation via Eckankar
                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nOvyUDObQI
                >
                > Out-of-body Experience with my deceased brother OBE Eckankar
                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK9Teg3vly8&feature=related
                >
                > Third Point.
                > So what kind of Eckankar videos are there on YouTube? It's mostly VERY SHORT videos with the current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. Almost all of them are less than five minutes long. They give you a very short glimpse of Eckankar, just enough to get you "sucked in" but not enough to really give you a decent amount of information so that you can actually do a worthwhile evaluation of Eckankar. Eckankar gives so little information out to the public on YouTube that any reasonable person would get the impression that Eckankar has a lot to hide.
                >
                > Fourth Point
                > Eckankar has 5 minute videos of Klemp's talks on YouTube. I'm not certain, but I believe his talks typically run about 30 minutes. Contrast that with the following website dedicated to Paul Twitchell's teacher Kirpal Singh:
                >
                > Recorded talks of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to download.)
                > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audio.htm
                >
                > Audio books of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to download.)
                > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audiobook.htm
                >
                > In case anyone wonders "Do they really allow free download?" Here is a direct quote from the audio book page:
                >
                > "The 'books on CD'("audio books") in our collection have converted to MP3 files and can be downloaded here."
                >
                > So there is no doubt. It is all free!
                >
                > It has been awhile since I checked out Eckanakr's website, but I don't recall seeing any free downloads of talks or audio books. Ka ching, ka ching!
                >
                > So it's pretty clear, when it comes to spiritual knowledge:
                >
                > Paul Twitchell's followers (Eckankar): Copyright, protect, and restrict. Sell everything, no exceptions.
                > Kirpal Singh's followers (Ruhani Satsang): Give away freely.
                >
                > I get sick of hearing members of Eckankar saying "But Eckankar doesn't cost that much." My reply to them is "Well it seems to me that you could be doing a whole lot better."
                >
                > Fifth Point
                > Back when I was a "contented" member of Eckankar I always wondered "Why doesn't Eckankar convert all of Paul Twitchell's tapes to MP3 format, put them all on a CD and sell the CD for a reasonable price?" I realize now that there are two reasons for this: (1) Eckankar could no longer sell you one cassette tape for $8, and (2) Eckanakar doesn't want to preserve Paul's original tapes because there were too many times that he stuck his foot in his mouth or he just didn't agree with Klemp's modern-day "Christian-based approach" to selling Eckankar. And in case you are wondering, yes, I was very naive back in those days.
                >
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@> wrote:
                > >
                > > A few weeks ago I guess I was almost having pity on Eckankar. Perhaps I was thinking things like "Maybe I've been too harsh on Eckankar" and "Maybe Eckankar isn't as bad as I think they are."
                > >
                > > So I decided to do an experiment. I was going to give Eckankar a fair chance. I decided to go over to YouTube and do a search for some Eckankar videos. Then I was going to watch the videos and do a completely fair evaluation of the content. Don't ask me why I was so generous because I don't know why. But I thought it would be a good idea to just "start from square one." Forget all of my personal issues with Eckankar and thoroughly dedicate myself to giving them a fair chance.
                > >
                > > The first thing I did was search for some Eckankar music. When I was a member of Eckankar I heard some "Eck songs" that I liked, and I was curious to see whether I could find a few of them on YouTube. For one thing, I was curious to see what my reaction would be when I listened to the songs. Would I cry? Would I feel nostalgic? So I did the search. This is my results:
                > >
                > > First search string --> Nothing
                > > Second search string --> Nothing
                > > Third search string --> Nothing
                > > Fourth search string --> Nothing
                > >
                > > I honestly don't remember what I used to search, but I am pretty good at searching for things on the Internet.
                > >
                > > But my search results did prove one thing: There is no Eck music on YouTube! Well, at first I was kinda stumped. Why? Then it came to me... the sound of "ka ching" resonated in my head. Yes, it was all about money. It had to be! Eckankar doesn't give anything away - you have to pay for it. Which does prove one thing. That Spirit DOES give freely, except when it comes through Eckankar.
                > >
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Hello Postekcon and All, Yes, Eckankar does make most of its money from material sales while promoting service as a spiritual reward. There s the catch. If
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 21, 2010
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                  Hello Postekcon and All,
                  Yes, Eckankar does make most of its
                  money from material sales while promoting
                  service as a "spiritual reward." There's the
                  catch. If an EKist seeks rewards then he/she
                  can't be "detached" and this fact and condition,
                  therefore, invalidates the higher spiritual reward
                  from being received by an unworthy person who
                  is, in fact, attached to lower mental plane concepts/
                  traps. Service and coin are lower plane conditions
                  put into place by the lower plane LEM and his
                  church (Eckankar).

                  What's really ironic is that most Eckists spend
                  more money on their pilgrimage to the EK
                  Temple in Chanhassen, MN.! When one looks
                  at the cost of air fare and the hotel expenses
                  and all of the other expenses associated with
                  attending an EK Seminar these expenses out
                  weigh all others expenses and donations to
                  the ECK Org/Church! BTW- Why doesn't Klemp
                  travel anymore? Why do EKists have to forgo
                  their vacation days saved up for Minneapolis?
                  What happened to Orlando? That would be a
                  nice change and warmer too! Klemp doesn't
                  give a sh_t about his chelas and H.I.s. Harry's
                  selfish and narcissistic. Let's face it... Eckankar
                  has become awfully dull with Klemp in charge
                  for all these years.

                  Prometheus

                  postekcon wrote:

                  Eckankar is modeled an a simple mlm formula, where the affiliate fee [suggested
                  membership donation] is reasonable. But where the real money is made for the org
                  is where the 'affiliate' must purchase and frequently update [always at personal
                  expense] all the promotional materials. However, with eckankar.org, the
                  affiliate is doubly tricked into the purchase of all these extraneous materials
                  for promotion purposes, for it is suggested to them this constitutes their
                  'service' to spirit!
                  -Postekcon


                  jonathanjohns wrote:
                  >
                  > I thought I would add some additional comments to my original post.
                  >
                  > First Point.
                  > The fact is, many individuals on YouTube use a copyrighted music file a
                  backing track for a video, they then add some beautiful photos of their own such
                  as the ocean, mountains, etc. Some of these videos are quite amazing and are a
                  beautiful form of self-expression. Some of these videos get pulled from YouTube
                  by the copy write owners, but many do not.
                  >
                  > Likewise, a member of Eckankar could do the same thing. They could take an Eck
                  song from one of the official CDs that Eckankar sells and make it into a
                  beautiful video, then post it on YouTube. But I didn't find a single instance of
                  this on YouTube. There are two reasons for this:
                  >
                  > 1. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copy-written material because it
                  wants only the "official line" from Eckankar headquarters to be present on
                  YouTube.
                  > 2. Eckankar aggressively protects all of it's copyrighted material because it
                  doesn't want to lose any income as a result of people giving it away for free.
                  >
                  > Second Point.
                  > Ever hear an Eckist tell a personal story on YouTube? I looked, and I didn't
                  find a single instance. I've discussed this previously on other posts on the
                  Internet, but Eckists are afraid to give their own personal stories and
                  experiences regarding Eckankar. Currently, there are two videos on YouTube which
                  masquerade as a personal story told by an Eckist, but it is pretty easy to see
                  that these two videos are just slick "Madison Avenue" videos produced at
                  Eckankar headquarters:
                  >
                  > Reincarnation Past Life Dream Interpretation via Eckankar
                  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nOvyUDObQI
                  >
                  > Out-of-body Experience with my deceased brother OBE Eckankar
                  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK9Teg3vly8&feature=related
                  >
                  > Third Point.
                  > So what kind of Eckankar videos are there on YouTube? It's mostly VERY SHORT
                  videos with the current leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. Almost all of them are
                  less than five minutes long. They give you a very short glimpse of Eckankar,
                  just enough to get you "sucked in" but not enough to really give you a decent
                  amount of information so that you can actually do a worthwhile evaluation of
                  Eckankar. Eckankar gives so little information out to the public on YouTube that
                  any reasonable person would get the impression that Eckankar has a lot to hide.
                  >
                  > Fourth Point
                  > Eckankar has 5 minute videos of Klemp's talks on YouTube. I'm not certain, but
                  I believe his talks typically run about 30 minutes. Contrast that with the
                  following website dedicated to Paul Twitchell's teacher Kirpal Singh:
                  >
                  > Recorded talks of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to
                  download.)
                  > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audio.htm
                  >
                  > Audio books of Kirpal Singh (Click on link to listen, right-click to
                  download.)
                  > http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/audiobook.htm
                  >
                  > In case anyone wonders "Do they really allow free download?" Here is a direct
                  quote from the audio book page:
                  >
                  > "The 'books on CD'("audio books") in our collection have converted to MP3
                  files and can be downloaded here."
                  >
                  > So there is no doubt. It is all free!
                  >
                  > It has been awhile since I checked out Eckanakr's website, but I don't recall
                  seeing any free downloads of talks or audio books. Ka ching, ka ching!
                  >
                  > So it's pretty clear, when it comes to spiritual knowledge:
                  >
                  > Paul Twitchell's followers (Eckankar): Copyright, protect, and restrict. Sell
                  everything, no exceptions.
                  > Kirpal Singh's followers (Ruhani Satsang): Give away freely.
                  >
                  > I get sick of hearing members of Eckankar saying "But Eckankar doesn't cost
                  that much." My reply to them is "Well it seems to me that you could be doing a
                  whole lot better."
                  >
                  > Fifth Point
                  > Back when I was a "contented" member of Eckankar I always wondered "Why
                  doesn't Eckankar convert all of Paul Twitchell's tapes to MP3 format, put them
                  all on a CD and sell the CD for a reasonable price?" I realize now that there
                  are two reasons for this: (1) Eckankar could no longer sell you one cassette
                  tape for $8, and (2) Eckanakar doesn't want to preserve Paul's original tapes
                  because there were too many times that he stuck his foot in his mouth or he just
                  didn't agree with Klemp's modern-day "Christian-based approach" to selling
                  Eckankar. And in case you are wondering, yes, I was very naive back in those
                  days.
                  >
                  >

                  <jonathanjohns wrote:
                  > >
                  > > A few weeks ago I guess I was almost having pity on Eckankar. Perhaps I was
                  thinking things like "Maybe I've been too harsh on Eckankar" and "Maybe
                  Eckankar isn't as bad as I think they are."
                  > >
                  > > So I decided to do an experiment. I was going to give Eckankar a fair
                  chance. I decided to go over to YouTube and do a search for some Eckankar
                  videos. Then I was going to watch the videos and do a completely fair evaluation
                  of the content. Don't ask me why I was so generous because I don't know why. But
                  I thought it would be a good idea to just "start from square one." Forget all of
                  my personal issues with Eckankar and thoroughly dedicate myself to giving them a
                  fair chance.
                  > >
                  > > The first thing I did was search for some Eckankar music. When I was a
                  member of Eckankar I heard some "Eck songs" that I liked, and I was curious to
                  see whether I could find a few of them on YouTube. For one thing, I was curious
                  to see what my reaction would be when I listened to the songs. Would I cry?
                  Would I feel nostalgic? So I did the search. This is my results:
                  > >
                  > > First search string --> Nothing
                  > > Second search string --> Nothing
                  > > Third search string --> Nothing
                  > > Fourth search string --> Nothing
                  > >
                  > > I honestly don't remember what I used to search, but I am pretty good at
                  searching for things on the Internet.
                  > >
                  > > But my search results did prove one thing: There is no Eck music on YouTube!
                  Well, at first I was kinda stumped. Why? Then it came to me... the sound of "ka
                  ching" resonated in my head. Yes, it was all about money. It had to be! Eckankar
                  doesn't give anything away - you have to pay for it. Which does prove one thing.
                  That Spirit DOES give freely, except when it comes through Eckankar.
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