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An Eck story - Paul Twitchell and the "Potato Pizza Man"

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  • jonathanjohns96
    I thought I would respond to HK s recent request for Eck stories. This story I am about to tell is a true story. I didn t make anything up. I didn t
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 27, 2009
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      I thought I would respond to HK's recent request for "Eck stories." This story I am about to tell is a true story. I didn't make anything up. I didn't exaggerate. I'm telling it exactly as it happened. Before beginning the story I should tell you that Paul Twitchell never knew the "Potato Pizza Man." Also, "Potato Pizza Man" is just a stupid nickname that I made up for this person.

      Back in late 2008 I was on my way out of Eckankar after being a member for 29 years (1979-2008). I believe it was December. I had been reading Ford Johnson's book. I was reading the section in the book where he is talking about Paul Twitchell being a pathological liar. Ford went into a lot of detail, and actually much more detail that I had the patience to read, but he at least covered the entire subject very thoroughly which is a valuable asset for future generations to have. I was already aware of Twitchell's plagiarism before I read Ford's book, but the book did reinforce my knowledge, and even added to it with his many detailed examples.

      Ford also discussed the various techniques that Twitchell used during his fabrication of Eckankar. One of the things that Ford spoke about was how Twitchell would take two completely unrelated pieces of information and then piece them together into one thing. While I was reading this section something kept popping into my mind. But then I would go back to reading, and it would pop into my mind again. Finally, after about the third time, I stopped reading. I said to myself "Why does "Joshi" (the guy that I knew at _________ University) keep popping into my mind?" Then I thought back to my good friend from India "Vijay."

      I knew "Vijay" very well, and he introduced me to several other guys from India - one of them was named "Joshi." He was a very likable guy, always telling funny stories. He had a lot of personality. He had lots of friends because everybody liked to hear the interesting stories that he told.

      My good friend "Vijay" told me the following story. He and several other Indians, including Joshi took a trip to _______ for an educational symposium. They were all friends. After they got back, the bunch of them were standing in a hallway talking to one of their professors. Vijay related the following story about Joshi. This quote below is Joshi speaking. He is speaking to the professor and telling him about their trip to the symposium in _______.

      Joshi "Yeah, we went to the symposium. We had a great time. We went to this restaurant and had potato pizza. The restaurant was started by an Italian guy and an Irish guy. They got together and thought up this great idea to start a restaurant selling potato pizza."

      Vijay then explained to me as he seriously said "All us who went on the trip just stood there silently." He lowered his voice as he said "The problem is… there was no potato pizza." He went on to explain. "They truth is, we went to an Italian place for pizza, and we also went to an Irish pub for some drinks. Joshi took these two completely unrelated events and put them together into this "potato pizza story." Vijay was laughing as he told me. but he was laughing mostly out of embarrassment or perhaps as a result of feeling incredulous. But he went on to tell me this. "Joshi's mother came over from India to visit them. She was talking to Vijay and her son Joshi's other Indian friends. She told them. "When Joshi tells you things, be careful what you believe because he likes to tell fibs." So the fact that his mother told Vijay and his friends this statement indicates to me that "Joshi" was this way from a young age.

      I never really applied the term "pathological liar" to "Joshi" because I liked the guy, but that is obviously what he was. The amazing thing is what Vijay told me, and that is, Joshi has no idea that he is actually lying when he does this. He's completely sincere. He has no clue that he is making stories up or lying.

      So, that's the story. Isn't it interesting how I knew this guy Joshi way back in 1979? That he was a pathological liar, although a very nice one. That 1979 is the same year that I joined Eckankar. That Eckankar is a religion that Paul Twitchell stole from Indian religions, most notably Hinduism and Sikhism, or derivatives of these two. It's way too many coincidences!

      So I'm going to send this story into Eckankar. I hope they print it.
    • mishmisha9
      Oh, I enjoyed this story . . . I hope eckankar will print it, but of course, I m sure Klemp would make a sow s ear out of your silk purse!! : ) But seriously
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 31, 2009
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        Oh, I enjoyed this story . . . I hope eckankar will print it, but of course,
        I'm sure Klemp would make a sow's ear out of your silk purse!! : )

        But seriously what would they do with it?? I guess put it in file 13 . . .

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjohns96" <jonathanjohns96@...> wrote:
        >
        > I thought I would respond to HK's recent request for "Eck stories." This story I am about to tell is a true story. I didn't make anything up. I didn't exaggerate. I'm telling it exactly as it happened. Before beginning the story I should tell you that Paul Twitchell never knew the "Potato Pizza Man." Also, "Potato Pizza Man" is just a stupid nickname that I made up for this person.
        >
        > Back in late 2008 I was on my way out of Eckankar after being a member for 29 years (1979-2008). I believe it was December. I had been reading Ford Johnson's book. I was reading the section in the book where he is talking about Paul Twitchell being a pathological liar. Ford went into a lot of detail, and actually much more detail that I had the patience to read, but he at least covered the entire subject very thoroughly which is a valuable asset for future generations to have. I was already aware of Twitchell's plagiarism before I read Ford's book, but the book did reinforce my knowledge, and even added to it with his many detailed examples.
        >
        > Ford also discussed the various techniques that Twitchell used during his fabrication of Eckankar. One of the things that Ford spoke about was how Twitchell would take two completely unrelated pieces of information and then piece them together into one thing. While I was reading this section something kept popping into my mind. But then I would go back to reading, and it would pop into my mind again. Finally, after about the third time, I stopped reading. I said to myself "Why does "Joshi" (the guy that I knew at _________ University) keep popping into my mind?" Then I thought back to my good friend from India "Vijay."
        >
        > I knew "Vijay" very well, and he introduced me to several other guys from India - one of them was named "Joshi." He was a very likable guy, always telling funny stories. He had a lot of personality. He had lots of friends because everybody liked to hear the interesting stories that he told.
        >
        > My good friend "Vijay" told me the following story. He and several other Indians, including Joshi took a trip to _______ for an educational symposium. They were all friends. After they got back, the bunch of them were standing in a hallway talking to one of their professors. Vijay related the following story about Joshi. This quote below is Joshi speaking. He is speaking to the professor and telling him about their trip to the symposium in _______.
        >
        > Joshi "Yeah, we went to the symposium. We had a great time. We went to this restaurant and had potato pizza. The restaurant was started by an Italian guy and an Irish guy. They got together and thought up this great idea to start a restaurant selling potato pizza."
        >
        > Vijay then explained to me as he seriously said "All us who went on the trip just stood there silently." He lowered his voice as he said "The problem is… there was no potato pizza." He went on to explain. "They truth is, we went to an Italian place for pizza, and we also went to an Irish pub for some drinks. Joshi took these two completely unrelated events and put them together into this "potato pizza story." Vijay was laughing as he told me. but he was laughing mostly out of embarrassment or perhaps as a result of feeling incredulous. But he went on to tell me this. "Joshi's mother came over from India to visit them. She was talking to Vijay and her son Joshi's other Indian friends. She told them. "When Joshi tells you things, be careful what you believe because he likes to tell fibs." So the fact that his mother told Vijay and his friends this statement indicates to me that "Joshi" was this way from a young age.
        >
        > I never really applied the term "pathological liar" to "Joshi" because I liked the guy, but that is obviously what he was. The amazing thing is what Vijay told me, and that is, Joshi has no idea that he is actually lying when he does this. He's completely sincere. He has no clue that he is making stories up or lying.
        >
        > So, that's the story. Isn't it interesting how I knew this guy Joshi way back in 1979? That he was a pathological liar, although a very nice one. That 1979 is the same year that I joined Eckankar. That Eckankar is a religion that Paul Twitchell stole from Indian religions, most notably Hinduism and Sikhism, or derivatives of these two. It's way too many coincidences!
        >
        > So I'm going to send this story into Eckankar. I hope they print it.
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Jonathan, I really like this story because it shows how pathological liars (like Twitchell) can develop and hone their skills. It could be that their
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 6, 2010
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          Hello Jonathan,
          I really like this story because it shows
          how pathological liars (like Twitchell)
          can develop and hone their skills. It
          could be that their brains get info
          confused, or crossed connected. Thus,
          they have compensated/adjusted
          in order to hide this affliction over
          the years. However, this also shows
          a disassociation with society via deviant
          behaviour. Twitchell was also a narcissist
          and his lies fed his ego. He was fooling
          people, some very intelligent, and these
          "street smarts" became the foundation
          for Eckankar.


          Jonathan wrote:
          I thought I would respond to HK's recent request for "Eck stories."
          This story I am about to tell is a true story. I didn't make anything
          up. I didn't exaggerate. I'm telling it exactly as it happened. Before
          beginning the story I should tell you that Paul Twitchell never knew
          the "Potato Pizza Man." Also, "Potato Pizza Man" is just a stupid nickname
          that I made up for this person.

          Back in late 2008 I was on my way out of Eckankar after being a member for 29
          years (1979-2008). I believe it was December. I had been reading Ford Johnson's
          book. I was reading the section in the book where he is talking about Paul
          Twitchell being a pathological liar. Ford went into a lot of detail, and
          actually much more detail that I had the patience to read, but he at least
          covered the entire subject very thoroughly which is a valuable asset for future
          generations to have. I was already aware of Twitchell's plagiarism before I read
          Ford's book, but the book did reinforce my knowledge, and even added to it with
          his many detailed examples.

          Ford also discussed the various techniques that Twitchell used during his
          fabrication of Eckankar. One of the things that Ford spoke about was how
          Twitchell would take two completely unrelated pieces of information and then
          piece them together into one thing. While I was reading this section something
          kept popping into my mind. But then I would go back to reading, and it would pop
          into my mind again. Finally, after about the third time, I stopped reading. I
          said to myself "Why does "Joshi" (the guy that I knew at _________ University)
          keep popping into my mind?" Then I thought back to my good friend from India
          "Vijay."

          I knew "Vijay" very well, and he introduced me to several other guys from India
          - one of them was named "Joshi." He was a very likable guy, always telling funny
          stories. He had a lot of personality. He had lots of friends because everybody
          liked to hear the interesting stories that he told.

          My good friend "Vijay" told me the following story. He and several other
          Indians, including Joshi took a trip to _______ for an educational symposium.
          They were all friends. After they got back, the bunch of them were standing in a
          hallway talking to one of their professors. Vijay related the following story
          about Joshi. This quote below is Joshi speaking. He is speaking to the professor
          and telling him about their trip to the symposium in _______.

          Joshi "Yeah, we went to the symposium. We had a great time. We went to this
          restaurant and had potato pizza. The restaurant was started by an Italian guy
          and an Irish guy. They got together and thought up this great idea to start a
          restaurant selling potato pizza."

          Vijay then explained to me as he seriously said "All us who went on the trip
          just stood there silently." He lowered his voice as he said "The problem is…
          there was no potato pizza." He went on to explain. "They truth is, we went to an
          Italian place for pizza, and we also went to an Irish pub for some drinks. Joshi
          took these two completely unrelated events and put them together into this
          "potato pizza story." Vijay was laughing as he told me. but he was laughing
          mostly out of embarrassment or perhaps as a result of feeling incredulous. But
          he went on to tell me this. "Joshi's mother came over from India to visit them.
          She was talking to Vijay and her son Joshi's other Indian friends. She told
          them. "When Joshi tells you things, be careful what you believe because he likes
          to tell fibs." So the fact that his mother told Vijay and his friends this
          statement indicates to me that "Joshi" was this way from a young age.

          I never really applied the term "pathological liar" to "Joshi" because I liked
          the guy, but that is obviously what he was. The amazing thing is what Vijay told
          me, and that is, Joshi has no idea that he is actually lying when he does this.
          He's completely sincere. He has no clue that he is making stories up or lying.

          So, that's the story. Isn't it interesting how I knew this guy Joshi way back in
          1979? That he was a pathological liar, although a very nice one. That 1979 is
          the same year that I joined Eckankar. That Eckankar is a religion that Paul
          Twitchell stole from Indian religions, most notably Hinduism and Sikhism, or
          derivatives of these two. It's way too many coincidences!

          So I'm going to send this story into Eckankar. I hope they print it.
        • jonathanjohns96
          Prometheus, I forgot to mention one thing. When I discussed the man from India who combined two facts into a story that was a total lie, I said that both my
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 12, 2010
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            Prometheus,

            I forgot to mention one thing. When I discussed the man from India who combined two facts into a story that was a total lie, I said that both my friend and I believed that this man didn't know he was lying. I thought perhaps some pro-Eckankar people might think that Twitchell gets some compassion because he had a brain dysfunction whereby he didn't know he was lying. Whether he did or didn't have that, the fact is that he published books that were full of plagiarized material, so he is responsible for that, no matter what the original circumstances were.

            So I guess there are three possibilities for Twitchell's lies:
            1. He had a brain dysfunction and didn't know he was lying.
            2. He knew he was lying, but did it anyway.
            3. He knew he was lying, but after doing it for such a long time, he got so used to it that it no longer seemed like lying.

            Regarding #2 and #3, I think he may have been under pressure from his wife Gail to make a decent living for them. I honestly believe that he wrote most of his stuff down as just a private diary. He never intended to start a metaphysical group (according to Twitchell he did not start a religion). But then after pressure from Gail to "Do something with your life!" he started Eckankar, never actually believing that it would ever catch on anyway. As he progressed he made a few "corrections" such as changing the name of Kirpal Singh, then had to add lies later to cover up the original lies. Before long, it snowballed into one big mess.

            But the bottom line is, he had a "personal dairy" plus a bunch of plagiarized stuff. He took that and tried to change it into "the word of God." It's probably the same thing that hundreds of people had successfully done before him to start religions, but in the modern age he wasn't able to get away with it.

            I realize that my excuses for Twitchell are being way too kind to him, but I thought I would try to get into the heads of some of Twitchell's fans and perhaps try to figure out what they might be thinking. Also, I think when I left Eckankar I probably thought up some of these excuses, but in the end they just didn't wash out. When I first saw the documentation showing entire paragraphs copied from "The Path Of The Masters" I think that was when I really had to face the fact that Twitchell plagiarized a large amount of material almost word for word (credit given to the research by David Lane and Ford Johnson). At that point I was very close to leaving Eckankar.

            Jonathan

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Jonathan,
            > I really like this story because it shows
            > how pathological liars (like Twitchell)
            > can develop and hone their skills. It
            > could be that their brains get info
            > confused, or crossed connected. Thus,
            > they have compensated/adjusted
            > in order to hide this affliction over
            > the years. However, this also shows
            > a disassociation with society via deviant
            > behaviour. Twitchell was also a narcissist
            > and his lies fed his ego. He was fooling
            > people, some very intelligent, and these
            > "street smarts" became the foundation
            > for Eckankar.
            >
            >
            > Jonathan wrote:
            > I thought I would respond to HK's recent request for "Eck stories."
            > This story I am about to tell is a true story. I didn't make anything
            > up. I didn't exaggerate. I'm telling it exactly as it happened. Before
            > beginning the story I should tell you that Paul Twitchell never knew
            > the "Potato Pizza Man." Also, "Potato Pizza Man" is just a stupid nickname
            > that I made up for this person.
            >
            > Back in late 2008 I was on my way out of Eckankar after being a member for 29
            > years (1979-2008). I believe it was December. I had been reading Ford Johnson's
            > book. I was reading the section in the book where he is talking about Paul
            > Twitchell being a pathological liar. Ford went into a lot of detail, and
            > actually much more detail that I had the patience to read, but he at least
            > covered the entire subject very thoroughly which is a valuable asset for future
            > generations to have. I was already aware of Twitchell's plagiarism before I read
            > Ford's book, but the book did reinforce my knowledge, and even added to it with
            > his many detailed examples.
            >
            > Ford also discussed the various techniques that Twitchell used during his
            > fabrication of Eckankar. One of the things that Ford spoke about was how
            > Twitchell would take two completely unrelated pieces of information and then
            > piece them together into one thing. While I was reading this section something
            > kept popping into my mind. But then I would go back to reading, and it would pop
            > into my mind again. Finally, after about the third time, I stopped reading. I
            > said to myself "Why does "Joshi" (the guy that I knew at _________ University)
            > keep popping into my mind?" Then I thought back to my good friend from India
            > "Vijay."
            >
            > I knew "Vijay" very well, and he introduced me to several other guys from India
            > - one of them was named "Joshi." He was a very likable guy, always telling funny
            > stories. He had a lot of personality. He had lots of friends because everybody
            > liked to hear the interesting stories that he told.
            >
            > My good friend "Vijay" told me the following story. He and several other
            > Indians, including Joshi took a trip to _______ for an educational symposium.
            > They were all friends. After they got back, the bunch of them were standing in a
            > hallway talking to one of their professors. Vijay related the following story
            > about Joshi. This quote below is Joshi speaking. He is speaking to the professor
            > and telling him about their trip to the symposium in _______.
            >
            > Joshi "Yeah, we went to the symposium. We had a great time. We went to this
            > restaurant and had potato pizza. The restaurant was started by an Italian guy
            > and an Irish guy. They got together and thought up this great idea to start a
            > restaurant selling potato pizza."
            >
            > Vijay then explained to me as he seriously said "All us who went on the trip
            > just stood there silently." He lowered his voice as he said "The problem is…
            > there was no potato pizza." He went on to explain. "They truth is, we went to an
            > Italian place for pizza, and we also went to an Irish pub for some drinks. Joshi
            > took these two completely unrelated events and put them together into this
            > "potato pizza story." Vijay was laughing as he told me. but he was laughing
            > mostly out of embarrassment or perhaps as a result of feeling incredulous. But
            > he went on to tell me this. "Joshi's mother came over from India to visit them.
            > She was talking to Vijay and her son Joshi's other Indian friends. She told
            > them. "When Joshi tells you things, be careful what you believe because he likes
            > to tell fibs." So the fact that his mother told Vijay and his friends this
            > statement indicates to me that "Joshi" was this way from a young age.
            >
            > I never really applied the term "pathological liar" to "Joshi" because I liked
            > the guy, but that is obviously what he was. The amazing thing is what Vijay told
            > me, and that is, Joshi has no idea that he is actually lying when he does this.
            > He's completely sincere. He has no clue that he is making stories up or lying.
            >
            > So, that's the story. Isn't it interesting how I knew this guy Joshi way back in
            > 1979? That he was a pathological liar, although a very nice one. That 1979 is
            > the same year that I joined Eckankar. That Eckankar is a religion that Paul
            > Twitchell stole from Indian religions, most notably Hinduism and Sikhism, or
            > derivatives of these two. It's way too many coincidences!
            >
            > So I'm going to send this story into Eckankar. I hope they print it.
            >
          • jonathanjohns96
            All, I just noticed that this sentence at the beginning in my previous post could be misread, and therefore misunderstood. I am concerned that the sentence
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 12, 2010
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              All,

              I just noticed that this sentence at the beginning in my previous post could be misread, and therefore misunderstood. I am concerned that the sentence could be misread to mean that what I said in my original post was a total lie. Here is the sentence:

              "When I discussed the man from India who combined two facts into a story that was a total lie, I said that both my friend and I believed that this man didn't know he was lying."

              This is my improved version:

              "In my original post I discussed the man from India who combined two facts together which then resulted in a story which was a total lie. I also stated in my original post that both my friend who told me the story and I believed that this man didn't know he was lying."

              Jonathan
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Jonathan and All, You make some good points and that gave me some other insights as to why people preach and seek religious dogma to fit their
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 15, 2010
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                Hello Jonathan and All,
                You make some good points and that
                gave me some other insights as to why
                people preach and seek religious dogma
                to fit their individual/group personalities.
                People are social animals and need various
                group consensuses in order to feel good
                about their self-image. We need to have
                a sense of belonging, otherwise,a social/
                psychological imbalance takes place.
                Then again, imbalance can often take
                place for an individual due to joining
                a group (religion/organization). This think/
                consciousness always has it's own rules,
                laws, and guidelines outside of normal
                society. However, for spiritual and
                creative growth to take place, one
                has to be able to be a free thinker and
                yet be a responsible member of society.
                The problem now is with the limited
                scope as to what people see/define as
                "society."

                I'll comment more below.



                jonathan wrote:

                Prometheus,

                "I forgot to mention one thing. When I discussed the man from India who combined
                two facts into a story that was a total lie, I said that both my friend and I
                believed that this man didn't know he was lying. I thought perhaps some
                pro-Eckankar people might think that Twitchell gets some compassion because he
                had a brain dysfunction whereby he didn't know he was lying. Whether he did or
                didn't have that, the fact is that he published books that were full of
                plagiarized material, so he is responsible for that, no matter what the original
                circumstances were."

                P- Actually Twitchell bought into another lie.
                Radhasoami and Ruhani Satsang were just other
                forms of the same old religious lie. The main
                difference between these two religions is who
                the living "Master" was/is. That's, basically,
                the same difference between these two religions
                and Eckankar. But, then again, all religions
                share some of the same beliefs, and all claim
                to be the best, highest and most accurate!
                I think that this is what Twitchell saw and since
                Kirpal Singh wasn't going to make him his U.S.
                Rep he decided to start his own New Age/Westernized
                version of these two religions. PT felt that he
                needed to give his new creation (and himself)
                some validity so he created Rebazar Tarzs and
                the lineage of ECK Masters. Therefore, Twit
                knew that it was all a lie. Both he and, especially,
                Gail saw this as an opportunity to combine/share/
                sell this new product (another religion) and see
                what developed. And, Eckankar did pay off!
                Maybe not as well as other New Age religions,
                like Scientology, but it didn't do too bad at
                bringing in the cash until recently.



                "So I guess there are three possibilities for Twitchell's lies:
                1. He had a brain dysfunction and didn't know he was lying.
                2. He knew he was lying, but did it anyway.
                3. He knew he was lying, but after doing it for such a long time, he got so used
                to it that it no longer seemed like lying."


                P- PT was pathological and a narcissist. He
                knew he was lying. He had been lying since
                age 27 according to Klemp. Over the years
                it became second nature to him. He was always
                "on-stage" and started to believe his own lies,
                thus, making him delusional as well. After all,
                he had to keep-up the act for his young wife.
                She was in on the lie from day one and Twit
                used her as a sounding board. She supported
                him and played a key role in structuring the
                whole scheme.


                "Regarding #2 and #3, I think he may have been under pressure from his wife Gail
                to make a decent living for them. I honestly believe that he wrote most of his
                stuff down as just a private diary. He never intended to start a metaphysical
                group (according to Twitchell he did not start a religion). But then after
                pressure from Gail to "Do something with your life!" he started Eckankar, never
                actually believing that it would ever catch on anyway. As he progressed he made
                a few "corrections" such as changing the name of Kirpal Singh, then had to add
                lies later to cover up the original lies. Before long, it snowballed into one
                big mess."


                P-I completely agree with the above! Twit had
                written fictional articles for Ripley's Believe It Or
                Not and had also been caught plagiarizing by Orion.
                Therefore, one just needs to take another religion's
                dogma and alter it to fit your own purposes. Why
                reinvent the wheel? The history, myth, and lies
                of other religions can be added and altered to that
                of the newly created one! Voila'! Yes, Gail is as
                responsible for the lies as much as (if not more)
                than what Twit is. And, Klemp knows that it's all
                a scam as well! That's why he hides out instead
                of being more visible as a local public or religious
                leader here in Chanhassen. Klemp could have
                a radio program, but he "can't take the heat"
                so he stays out of the kitchen.



                "But the bottom line is, he had a "personal diary" plus a bunch of plagiarized
                stuff. He took that and tried to change it into "the word of God." It's probably
                the same thing that hundreds of people had successfully done before him to start
                religions, but in the modern age he wasn't able to get away with it."



                P- Well, this is why Klemp tries to keep
                his followers off the Internet by promoting
                EMR/EMF fears. HK doesn't want his people
                reading and researching and thinking too
                much. This is why ECKists are encouraged
                to read ONLY approved/recommended EK
                books. Tunnel vision (limited focus) and
                pretending (imagining) is encouraged.
                Delusional thinking becomes A Way Of Life!




                "I realize that my excuses for Twitchell are being way too kind to him, but I
                thought I would try to get into the heads of some of Twitchell's fans and
                perhaps try to figure out what they might be thinking. Also, I think when I left
                Eckankar I probably thought up some of these excuses, but in the end they just
                didn't wash out. When I first saw the documentation showing entire paragraphs
                copied from "The Path Of The Masters" I think that was when I really had to face
                the fact that Twitchell plagiarized a large amount of material almost word for
                word (credit given to the research by David Lane and Ford Johnson). At that
                point I was very close to leaving Eckankar."


                P- Twit was a likable character and could spin
                a good yarn. That's what many of these characters
                did back in those days. They even had local "Liars"
                clubs back then. It was seen as good sport until
                honest hard-working people were flim-flammed
                out of their hard earned money by a snake-oil
                salesman. Twit became a snake-oil salesman,
                but rationalized it all by saying he was doing
                a "service" for people. He attracted a certain
                disillusioned New Age group of people and gave
                them something different to believe in. Of course
                it took the same kind of "faith" and belief as their
                previous religions did, but this (Eckankar) was
                different and a "faster" Journey and a "higher"
                Truth than any religion could offer ever before.
                The Best and Fastest (most direct)! Who could
                resist that promise? And, you can "prove" it to
                yourself! Just read the material and your mind
                will focus itself on certain (conscious/unconscious)
                expectations that will manifest via dreams or
                "signs."

                Anyway, it's rather funny that this is exactly
                how other religious beliefs work too!
                These Religions all seem to have followers that
                exclude, or belittle, the "spiritual" experiences
                of non-believers! One has to be in the same club.
                But, even then, there's the hierarchy that promotes
                equality (as Soul) while excluding people due
                to rank (the highest can only be desired and
                imagined). There's the Catch-22. If one has
                desires (even for God-Realization or for initiation
                rank) it cannot be attained, unless, you
                imagine someone else can give it to you.
                Religion is just a bunch of futuristic promises
                that can help give masses of people some
                comfort... sometimes. But, it's all most people
                have. And, what else do they have except these
                promises? It's like a pyramid scheme. The ones
                that buy-in, early on, benefit the most, except,
                those initiations are phony... and look at all
                of the time that was wasted... not to mention
                the money wasted! Finding out the real Truth
                hurt because we learned that, once again, we
                were suckered by another religion! And, what
                did we have to replace it with? This is probably
                why most ECKists stay. They "need" a religion!

                Prometheus





                prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello Jonathan,
                > I really like this story because it shows
                > how pathological liars (like Twitchell)
                > can develop and hone their skills. It
                > could be that their brains get info
                > confused, or crossed connected. Thus,
                > they have compensated/adjusted
                > in order to hide this affliction over
                > the years. However, this also shows
                > a disassociation with society via deviant
                > behaviour. Twitchell was also a narcissist
                > and his lies fed his ego. He was fooling
                > people, some very intelligent, and these
                > "street smarts" became the foundation
                > for Eckankar.
                >
                >
                > Jonathan wrote:
                > I thought I would respond to HK's recent request for "Eck stories."
                > This story I am about to tell is a true story. I didn't make anything
                > up. I didn't exaggerate. I'm telling it exactly as it happened. Before
                > beginning the story I should tell you that Paul Twitchell never knew
                > the "Potato Pizza Man." Also, "Potato Pizza Man" is just a stupid nickname
                > that I made up for this person.
                >
                > Back in late 2008 I was on my way out of Eckankar after being a member for 29
                > years (1979-2008). I believe it was December. I had been reading Ford
                Johnson's
                > book. I was reading the section in the book where he is talking about Paul
                > Twitchell being a pathological liar. Ford went into a lot of detail, and
                > actually much more detail that I had the patience to read, but he at least
                > covered the entire subject very thoroughly which is a valuable asset for
                future
                > generations to have. I was already aware of Twitchell's plagiarism before I
                read
                > Ford's book, but the book did reinforce my knowledge, and even added to it
                with
                > his many detailed examples.
                >
                > Ford also discussed the various techniques that Twitchell used during his
                > fabrication of Eckankar. One of the things that Ford spoke about was how
                > Twitchell would take two completely unrelated pieces of information and then
                > piece them together into one thing. While I was reading this section something
                > kept popping into my mind. But then I would go back to reading, and it would
                pop
                > into my mind again. Finally, after about the third time, I stopped reading. I
                > said to myself "Why does "Joshi" (the guy that I knew at _________ University)
                > keep popping into my mind?" Then I thought back to my good friend from India
                > "Vijay."
                >
                > I knew "Vijay" very well, and he introduced me to several other guys from
                India
                > - one of them was named "Joshi." He was a very likable guy, always telling
                funny
                > stories. He had a lot of personality. He had lots of friends because everybody
                > liked to hear the interesting stories that he told.
                >
                > My good friend "Vijay" told me the following story. He and several other
                > Indians, including Joshi took a trip to _______ for an educational symposium.
                > They were all friends. After they got back, the bunch of them were standing in
                a
                > hallway talking to one of their professors. Vijay related the following story
                > about Joshi. This quote below is Joshi speaking. He is speaking to the
                professor
                > and telling him about their trip to the symposium in _______.
                >
                > Joshi "Yeah, we went to the symposium. We had a great time. We went to this
                > restaurant and had potato pizza. The restaurant was started by an Italian guy
                > and an Irish guy. They got together and thought up this great idea to start a
                > restaurant selling potato pizza."
                >
                > Vijay then explained to me as he seriously said "All us who went on the trip
                > just stood there silently." He lowered his voice as he said "The problem is…
                > there was no potato pizza." He went on to explain. "They truth is, we went to
                an
                > Italian place for pizza, and we also went to an Irish pub for some drinks.
                Joshi
                > took these two completely unrelated events and put them together into this
                > "potato pizza story." Vijay was laughing as he told me. but he was laughing
                > mostly out of embarrassment or perhaps as a result of feeling incredulous. But
                > he went on to tell me this. "Joshi's mother came over from India to visit
                them.
                > She was talking to Vijay and her son Joshi's other Indian friends. She told
                > them. "When Joshi tells you things, be careful what you believe because he
                likes
                > to tell fibs." So the fact that his mother told Vijay and his friends this
                > statement indicates to me that "Joshi" was this way from a young age.
                >
                > I never really applied the term "pathological liar" to "Joshi" because I liked
                > the guy, but that is obviously what he was. The amazing thing is what Vijay
                told
                > me, and that is, Joshi has no idea that he is actually lying when he does
                this.
                > He's completely sincere. He has no clue that he is making stories up or lying.
                >
                > So, that's the story. Isn't it interesting how I knew this guy Joshi way back
                in
                > 1979? That he was a pathological liar, although a very nice one. That 1979 is
                > the same year that I joined Eckankar. That Eckankar is a religion that Paul
                > Twitchell stole from Indian religions, most notably Hinduism and Sikhism, or
                > derivatives of these two. It's way too many coincidences!
                >
                > So I'm going to send this story into Eckankar. I hope they print it.
                >
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