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ECK Initiations - Klemp's Bait & Switch Game

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, At EK Seminars there are Workshops for those chelas who want to be on the FAST TRACK, for initiations, and those who want to be on the SPIRITUAL
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 16, 2009
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      Hello All,
      At EK Seminars there are Workshops
      for those chelas who want to be
      on the "FAST TRACK," for initiations,
      and those who want to be on the
      "SPIRITUAL TRACK." It's all a ruse
      of course! There is No "Fast" track,
      thus, there is no "Spiritual" track!

      There are those chelas and H.I.s
      who have given up playing the
      God-Realization/Initiation game.
      For them: 'The Journey IS the Destination!'

      Other ECKists are grabbing at
      straws (promises) and those carrots
      of initiation. For them the Goal/
      Destination is upon the future
      and that of "God-Realization"
      (in this lifetime). Yet, this future
      desire and the desire for more
      Initiations negates these! One
      cannot have Lower Plane attachments
      and achieve Higher Plane rewards.

      However, this is the Catch-22
      magic that Klemp uses on his
      followers from ever achieving
      these goals. Therefore, Klemp's
      H.I.s can never complain or express
      their frustrations with his Long-
      Term Initiation Slow-Down.
      H.I.s are supposed to have
      patience... it's another "test."

      However, when one looks at the
      numbers and the handful of 8th
      Initiates one can see that the problem
      isn't with the 7ths! The problem
      is with Klemp! He doesn't want to
      share! He's selfish, narrow and closed-
      minded, petty, and is an ego driven
      narcissist. The pity is that most 7ths
      cope by visualizing themselves as
      8ths on the Inner. Unfortunately
      this delusional compensation is
      ego driven. This is how the ego
      uses the imagination to protect,
      and delude, a person from
      an unacceptable truth when it
      feels trapped. In this case 7ths
      are trapped by their religion and
      the world they have constructed
      and accepted.

      However, the Good News is that Soul
      doesn't need a religion or hierarchies
      and RESAs or Mahantas and Masters.

      Soul (we) can just look to Self
      (ourSelves) and to Spirit and keep
      it simple and uncomplicated. Answers
      and contentment will come. Sure,
      we are social animals and need
      contact and relationships with others,
      but sometimes you have to let some
      go their own way and make their own
      choices. People do tend to hold onto
      grudges for things that are ever so
      slight let alone rejecting their religion
      which you shared with them. This
      is their test proving they were never
      what they preached... like Klemp.

      When in harmony; New friends
      and experiences will appear just
      over the next hill or in a special
      way sent by Spirit.

      "Change" is not just something
      that Klemp invented. However,
      unbeknownst to Klemp, this idea
      of "change" could be the "true"
      Golden-Tongued Wisdom for H.I.s.
      It means that ECKists need to take
      drastic action and and make a
      responsible, detached, decision
      in their lives and leave Eckankar
      behind. New beginnings refresh
      one's perspective.

      Co-dependency (reliance upon
      Klemp/the Mahanta) is Not Healthy!
      Eckankar's not working, on many
      levels, for hundreds of EK members,
      especially, 7th Initiates!

      Klemp's outer promises have been
      broken and the "inner" ones are
      imaginary.

      Prometheus



      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Etznab and All,
      > It's true that Darwin gave out many
      > more initiations than Klemp. After
      > all, Klemp got 6-12 from Darwin!
      >
      > BTW- In "Difficulties" on page 255,
      > "Paul Translates," is this quote that
      > shows that these two Higher Initiates
      > were of Paul's inner circle:
      >
      > "A short time after they had departed
      > one of the Fifth Initiates [Anita Foos]
      > felt a sharp call on the inner to go to
      > him... The separation was immediate
      > and Doctor Louis Bluth, 7th Initiate,
      > witnessed Paulji ascending [to heaven]
      > in the company of the ECK Masters
      > of the Vairagi."
      >
      > I wonder why Klemp doesn't want
      > this historical and inspirational book
      > reprinted? Isn't this a good EK "story,"
      > or "testimonial" that gives some validity
      > to the EK teachings? What does Klemp
      > fear by Not sharing this book with all
      > ECKists? HK could make it one of the
      > "members only" books if he doesn't
      > want the public reading some of PT's
      > more controversial comments.
      >
      > Getting back to the EK Initiations
      > and Klemp... it is strange [or not]
      > that EKists have accepted his "slowing
      > -down of initiations" strategy for
      > all of these years. When was that
      > speech made? Wasn't it around
      > 1985? So, why have EK initiations
      > been "slowed-down" for almost
      > 25 years?
      >
      > Why aren't there hundreds of 8ths
      > by now? What happened to all of
      > those promises about the raising
      > of consciousness? It's Bait and Switch,
      > and it will continue because Klemp
      > is a selfish narcissist! ECKists should
      > draw a line in the sand and tell
      > Klemp to put-up or shut-up!
      > But, that will never happen. ECKists
      > don't dare say anything to criticize
      > the negative and detrimental policies
      > of the All Powerful LEM/Mahanta!
      > It would only get them placed on
      > their RESA's "Black List" and have
      > their files at the ESC "Red Flagged."
      >
      > It's like walking on egg shells being
      > a good little H.I.. But that carrot
      > of initiation is still being dangled
      > in front of them. I just don't see
      > why the 7ths are still staying...
      > it must be EGO due to their "high"
      > status. Many like to be admired
      > and love being guest speakers at
      > Regional Seminars. And, they fear
      > that they would have no EK friends
      > left if they made the change and
      > left Eckankar. Loneliness can be
      > unpleasant. However, and what's
      > funny, is that it's also a "test" for
      > all of their so-called EK friends.
      > Most of them FAIL the test of
      > demonstrating "unconditional love"
      > miserably! One has to wonder why
      > they are called Higher Initiates!
      >
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > etznab wrote:
      >
      > On the subject of initiations. Were there ever only
      > three at one time?
      >
      > Also, in 1969, didn't Paul say there were only about
      > a half dozen thirds? I'm not sure what that meant.
      > Like, Were those the most HI's in 1969?
      >
      > I guess it kinda makes sense if Eckankar was not
      > founded until 1965 and it takes two years before a
      > second initiation.
      >
      > In any case, it seems to me that most initiations
      > (above the 3rd) first happened during the time of
      > Darwin Gross. From October 1971-1981.
      >
      > Not saying a lot of initiations didn't happened in the
      > time of Harold Klemp, the current leader, just that
      > there must have been an awful lot of initiations from
      > the time Eckankar became a non-profit religious or-
      > ganization in 1970. And after Fall 1971 as Darwin
      > became the Master.
      >
      > 1970 would have been about three years after the
      > 2nd initiation, for people who got initiated in 1965.
      > So, IMO, it looks like most of the first 3rd, 4th and
      > 5th initiates, etc. got their initiations during the time
      > of Darwin Gross.
      >
      > Etznab
      >
      > Prometheus wrote:
      > According to Eckankar, and Klemp,
      > H.I.s (5-14) are beyond Karma. Thus,
      > poor health (disease) is seen as a "test."
      >
      > Why do many H.I.s take Homeopathic
      > Remedies when they have the LEM/
      > Mahanta's "protection?" Are they 'tying
      > up their camels?' Is this why they take
      > all of those vitamins and supplements
      > too? Is this why they stay away from
      > their computers (EMF fears)? What else
      > do EK H.I.s have to do to protect their
      > health? Flu shots? I doubt it! They have
      > too much fear involved with taking the
      > vaccine!
      >
      > Or, do ECK H.I.s think that the Mahanta
      > will protect them from the flu? Yet, HK
      > didn't protect those H.I.s who developed
      > Cancer! And, these H.I.s were doing/taking
      > everything available to them! They HUed,
      > did the spiritual exercises, volunteered,
      > fasted, did the HIRO thing followed the
      > Four Zoas and everything a good little H.I.
      > is told/expected to do.
      >
      > When does Klemp ever take responsibility
      > for anything? Never! There is No Protection
      > by the Mahanta (Klemp)! It's all talk and
      > more B.S. promises just as it is with all
      > religions! Why are there Metal Detectors
      > and bag searches at Major EK Seminars?
      > There're control tactics and fear going on!
      > Yet, Klemp makes sure that there are
      > always those "Stories" (testimonials) by
      > Eckists who have had a "spiritual experience."
      > This is just PR and every religion has it
      > in order to placate their current members
      > and to strengthen their "hope" and "belief"
      > in the PR-Dogma. It's brain-washing!
      > A good EK Story would be that everyone
      > was "protected" by the Mahanta via the
      > Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the
      > Seminar and at the Temple of EK!
      >
      > If one needs a religion and something
      > to believe in it seems that Klemp's
      > Lutheran version of Eckankar (B.S.) is
      > typical. True, it's not really the "spiritual
      > path" that chelas signed-up for in the
      > beginning, (unless one has forgotten
      > this or their imaginations have become
      > too deluded over time), but pretend can
      > be fulfilling and give a false (but feel-good)
      > sense of security and worth. Actually,
      > it nice to have good self-worth, but being
      > an H.I. tends to give many a delusional
      > amount of worth and power. They can't
      > handle it, and yet to have the higher
      > initiation is supposed to mean that they
      > have "mastered" the Lower Planes and
      > all that goes with a Lower Consciousness.
      > However, we all know that this isn't true!
      > Once more we have a lie that is glossed
      > over and unexplained... except that the
      > con "changes" moment to moment! At
      > last the Truth!
      >
      > Believing in the Mahanta's powers etc.
      > is like believing in Santa Claus. Pretend
      > can be fun too! And, it always good and
      > reassuring to have other like-minded
      > people to be in the same boat as you.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      > Hello All,
      > I thought that this would be interesting
      > for all to read and to comment on.
      > My bracketed [ ] comments and caps
      > are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:
      >
      > The H.I. Letter December 2009
      >
      > HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
      > An ECK principle states that good
      > health is an aid to spiritual unfoldment."
      >
      > ME: [I don't think that this is an "ECK
      > principle" per se. But, one does feel
      > more positive and happy about life
      > when they have good health. However,
      > isn't poor health (like cancer) seen
      > as a test of faith for the ECKist/religionist?]
      >
      > HK: "With that in mind, let us consider
      > how to better our health, and thus enjoy
      > living in a more satisfying way.
      >
      > A couple, ECK Higher Initiates, approached
      > me in a food store. The wife mentioned
      > a problem with constipation [oh sh_t!],
      > a common complaint that goes with
      > the graying of hair [like with the Klemps'].
      >
      > I told her of a certain liquid magnesium.
      > It is ten to twelve times more effective
      > than the capsules she was using. And
      > later, I heard [her fart and] that it was
      > giving her relief.
      >
      > Yet constipation told a deeper, more
      > fundamental condition, which was
      > related to nutrition.
      >
      > As the ECK would have it, I met the
      > couple two weeks later."
      >
      > ME: [They were stalking you, dummy!
      > Is Klemp the spokesperson for all New
      > Age methods and supplements such as
      > Laetrile? He suggested that his oldest
      > brother, Duane, go to Mexico for Laetrile
      > treatments for cancer. HK couldn't help
      > him anymore, then, than he can help chelas
      > now! Actually, many of HK's suggestions
      > and practices (avoidance of M.D.s and
      > of current, valid, and accepted medical
      > treatments) does more harm than good.]
      >
      > HK: "So I recommended a local radio
      > program that addresses health issues.
      >
      > The Usual Hosts are a NUTRITIONIST
      > and a DIETICIAN, both longtime practitioners
      > in their respective fields. And both are
      > dedicated to helping people overcome
      > ailments of all kinds."
      >
      > ME: [Is Klemp naive or stupid to be
      > giving recommendations? As LEM/
      > Mahanta with ALL KNOWLEDGE
      > available to him... why doesn't he
      > have his own radio show? Why do
      > unpaid Vahanas have to do all the
      > work? He's getting paid for doing
      > what, all day long? Let's hear a
      > live conversation, views, and a
      > Q & A segment for non-ECKists!
      > Harry's just lazy and is not what
      > he claims to be. The proof is in the
      > pudding!]
      >
      > HK: "More than 90 percent of ALL
      > health issues, THEY SAY, are due
      > to poor nutrition.
      >
      > THEY STRONGLY discourage the
      > use of chocolate and coffee, for both
      > are linked to jumpy nerves, and even
      > to migraine headaches. The problem
      > is the Caffeine in them."
      >
      > ME: [Yet, Klemp overlooks the fact
      > that DARK Chocolate is good for
      > heart health, and caffeine doesn't
      > affect all people the same. Besides,
      > there is always DEcaffeinated coffee!
      > Klemp has such a limited focus!]
      >
      > HK: "Soft drinks, too, are FROWNED
      > upon,both for Caffeine as well as
      > Carbohydrates."
      >
      > ME: [Well, limit drinking these to one
      > or two DIET (sugar free) Caffeine FREE
      > soft drinks per day! And, use a straw
      > to prevent staining your teeth!]
      >
      > HK: "Divide the latter by four to find the
      > amount of sugar that the carbohydrates
      > convert to, in teaspoonfuls. For example,
      > a Drink or Processed Food with twenty-eight
      > grams of carbohydrates soon changes
      > during digestion, into seven teaspoons
      > of sugar, which may produce all kinds
      > of problems for young and old alike."
      >
      > ME: [Klemp has become quite the expert,
      > by proxy, but should this stuff (health info
      > available to anyone on the internet) be
      > in the H.I. Letter? Most EKies will interpret
      > this to mean that Klemp (the LEM/Mahanta)
      > is "frowning upon" using soft drinks and
      > chocolate. I will have to say that about 30
      > years ago, while attending a Darji Potluck,
      > one EK Leader suggested that Chocolate
      > be banded from future potlucks. It seems
      > that Klemp is finally up-to-speed, for him.]
      >
      > HK: "A LICENSED Nutritionist must go
      > through A More Thorough Training
      > Program than does a Dietician."
      >
      > ME: [Yet, Klemp stated earlier that
      > the radio program he's recommending
      > is Co-hosted by a "Dietician!" Thus,
      > half of the comments and health advice
      > are being given by a less qualified person.
      > Klemp likes to have it both ways. Those
      > who are no longer mesmerized by him
      > can see beyond his double talk!]
      >
      > HK: "Should you be looking for a nutritionist,
      > be sure that the individual is licensed."
      >
      > ME: [Is being "licensed" a guarantee
      > that they really know what they are
      > talking about? No! Klemp's an idiot!]
      >
      > HK: "I understand that in some places,
      > nearly anyone can claim to be a nutritionist."
      >
      > ME: [And, nearly anyone can "claim to
      > be" a LEM/Mahanta!]
      >
      > HK: "At a recent meeting of the ECKANKAR
      > Board of Trustees, we handled the business
      > first. Then they asked if I would speak to
      > them."
      >
      > ME: [Hmmmm. Maybe they wanted to be
      > given some real "spiritual meat" for a "change"]
      >
      > HK: "So the ECK lit up for me the topic of
      > nutrition, and its vital relationship with good
      > health."
      >
      > ME: [The Board could have read about it
      > in this H.I. Letter article or tuned into the
      > radio program, except, Klemp now thinks
      > he's an expert (of sorts) and wants to tout
      > his newly found knowledge.]
      >
      > HK: "A Board Member asked for more
      > information and the aforementioned radio
      > program.
      >
      > I GENERALLY steer clear of recommending
      > doctors and the like, because you can usually
      > find a qualified practitioner right in the local
      > area. BUT this member lived far from a licensed
      > nutritionist,
      >
      > ME: [Beyond Radio/Computer EMF waves?]
      >
      > HK: so I passed along their company's
      > Internet address. It is www.weightandwellness.
      > com. BUT note, advice that helps others may
      > hurt you."
      >
      > ME: [Or, handing out advice may hurt Klemp
      > more since he broke the Law of NonInterference
      > by printing this, unsolicited, health advice!
      > However, let's not forget that Klemp is directing
      > his H.I.s to risk their health by tuning into the
      > Radio EMF Waves and to the EMF that their
      > computers generate. They have to be careful
      > because it's obvious that they don't have HK's
      > (LEM/Mahanta) protection!]
      >
      > HK: "THEY are EXPERTS in their fields.
      > Helping people find better health is their
      > main concern." END of Part 1
      >
      > ME: I'd say that their "main concern" is
      > making money just as it is with Klemp!
      > And, the Dietician nor the Nutritionist
      > are Medical Doctors or have a Ph.D in
      > a health related field. I'm trying to figure
      > out why Klemp is claiming that "THEY
      > ARE EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELDS."
      > How's that work? Don't "they" just second
      > guess other so-called "experts" and
      > look at studies of a narrow and bias
      > focus with old information that supports
      > their philosophy. Hey! That's what Klemp
      > does! It's no wonder he relates to them
      > as he does!
      >
      > Below is the site Klemp was talking
      > about. What's interesting is reading
      > the bios of these people and looking
      > at their pictures! For being "experts
      > in their fields" most certainly don't
      > look like they've been walking the
      > walk! Very unhealthy looking! Hey!
      > Klemp doesn't walk the walk either!
      > Look at his health!
      >
      > http://www.weightandwellness.com/
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, I thought that this would be interesting for all to read and to comment on. My bracketed [ ] comments and caps are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 6, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello All,
        I thought that this would be interesting
        for all to read and to comment on.
        My bracketed [ ] comments and caps
        are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:

        The H.I. Letter December 2009

        HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
        An ECK principle states that good
        health is an aid to spiritual unfoldment."

        ME: [I don't think that this is an "ECK
        principle" per se. But, one does feel
        more positive and happy about life
        when they have good health. However,
        isn't poor health (like cancer) seen
        as a test of faith for the ECKist/religionist?]

        HK: "With that in mind, let us consider
        how to better our health, and thus enjoy
        living in a more satisfying way.

        A couple, ECK Higher Initiates, approached
        me in a food store. The wife mentioned
        a problem with constipation [oh sh_t!],
        a common complaint that goes with
        the graying of hair [like with the Klemps'].

        I told her of a certain liquid magnesium.
        It is ten to twelve times more effective
        than the capsules she was using. And
        later, I heard [her fart and] that it was
        giving her relief.

        Yet constipation told a deeper, more
        fundamental condition, which was
        related to nutrition.

        As the ECK would have it, I met the
        couple two weeks later."

        ME: [They were stalking you, dummy!
        Is Klemp the spokesperson for all New
        Age methods and supplements such as
        Laetrile? He suggested that his oldest
        brother, Duane, go to Mexico for Laetrile
        treatments for cancer. HK couldn't help
        him anymore, then, than he can help chelas
        now! Actually, many of HK's suggestions
        and practices (avoidance of M.D.s and
        of current, valid, and accepted medical
        treatments) does more harm than good.]

        HK: "So I recommended a local radio
        program that addresses health issues.

        The Usual Hosts are a NUTRITIONIST
        and a DIETICIAN, both longtime practitioners
        in their respective fields. And both are
        dedicated to helping people overcome
        ailments of all kinds."

        ME: [Is Klemp naive or stupid to be
        giving recommendations? As LEM/
        Mahanta with ALL KNOWLEDGE
        available to him... why doesn't he
        have his own radio show? Why do
        unpaid Vahanas have to do all the
        work? He's getting paid for doing
        what, all day long? Let's hear a
        live conversation, views, and a
        Q & A segment for non-ECKists!
        Harry's just lazy and is not what
        he claims to be. The proof is in the
        pudding!]

        HK: "More than 90 percent of ALL
        health issues, THEY SAY, are due
        to poor nutrition.

        THEY STRONGLY discourage the
        use of chocolate and coffee, for both
        are linked to jumpy nerves, and even
        to migraine headaches. The problem
        is the Caffeine in them."

        ME: [Yet, Klemp overlooks the fact
        that DARK Chocolate is good for
        heart health, and caffeine doesn't
        affect all people the same. Besides,
        there is always DEcaffeinated coffee!
        Klemp has such a limited focus!]

        HK: "Soft drinks, too, are FROWNED
        upon,both for Caffeine as well as
        Carbohydrates."

        ME: [Well, limit drinking these to one
        or two DIET (sugar free) Caffeine FREE
        soft drinks per day! And, use a straw
        to prevent staining your teeth!]

        HK: "Divide the latter by four to find the
        amount of sugar that the carbohydrates
        convert to, in teaspoonfuls. For example,
        a Drink or Processed Food with twenty-eight
        grams of carbohydrates soon changes
        during digestion, into seven teaspoons
        of sugar, which may produce all kinds
        of problems for young and old alike."

        ME: [Klemp has become quite the expert,
        by proxy, but should this stuff (health info
        available to anyone on the internet) be
        in the H.I. Letter? Most EKies will interpret
        this to mean that Klemp (the LEM/Mahanta)
        is "frowning upon" using soft drinks and
        chocolate. I will have to say that about 30
        years ago, while attending a Darji Potluck,
        one EK Leader suggested that Chocolate
        be banded from future potlucks. It seems
        that Klemp is finally up-to-speed, for him.]

        HK: "A LICENSED Nutritionist must go
        through A More Thorough Training
        Program than does a Dietician."

        ME: [Yet, Klemp stated earlier that
        the radio program he's recommending
        is Co-hosted by a "Dietician!" Thus,
        half of the comments and health advice
        are being given by a less qualified person.
        Klemp likes to have it both ways. Those
        who are no longer mesmerized by him
        can see beyond his double talk!]

        HK: "Should you be looking for a nutritionist,
        be sure that the individual is licensed."

        ME: [Is being "licensed" a guarantee
        that they really know what they are
        talking about? No! Klemp's an idiot!]

        HK: "I understand that in some places,
        nearly anyone can claim to be a nutritionist."

        ME: [And, nearly anyone can "claim to
        be" a LEM/Mahanta!]

        HK: "At a recent meeting of the ECKANKAR
        Board of Trustees, we handled the business
        first. Then they asked if I would speak to
        them."

        ME: [Hmmmm. Maybe they wanted to be
        given some real "spiritual meat" for a "change"]

        HK: "So the ECK lit up for me the topic of
        nutrition, and its vital relationship with good
        health."

        ME: [The Board could have read about it
        in this H.I. Letter article or tuned into the
        radio program, except, Klemp now thinks
        he's an expert (of sorts) and wants to tout
        his newly found knowledge.]

        HK: "A Board Member asked for more
        information and the aforementioned radio
        program.

        I GENERALLY steer clear of recommending
        doctors and the like, because you can usually
        find a qualified practitioner right in the local
        area. BUT this member lived far from a licensed
        nutritionist,

        ME: [Beyond Radio/Computer EMF waves?]

        HK: so I passed along their company's
        Internet address. It is www.weightandwellness.
        com. BUT note, advice that helps others may
        hurt you."

        ME: [Or, handing out advice may hurt Klemp
        more since he broke the Law of NonInterference
        by printing this, unsolicited, health advice!
        However, let's not forget that Klemp is directing
        his H.I.s to risk their health by tuning into the
        Radio EMF Waves and to the EMF that their
        computers generate. They have to be careful
        because it's obvious that they don't have HK's
        (LEM/Mahanta) protection!]

        HK: "THEY are EXPERTS in their fields.
        Helping people find better health is their
        main concern." END of Part 1

        ME: I'd say that their "main concern" is
        making money just as it is with Klemp!
        And, the Dietician nor the Nutritionist
        are Medical Doctors or have a Ph.D in
        a health related field. I'm trying to figure
        out why Klemp is claiming that "THEY
        ARE EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELDS."
        How's that work? Don't "they" just second
        guess other so-called "experts" and
        look at studies of a narrow and bias
        focus with old information that supports
        their philosophy. Hey! That's what Klemp
        does! It's no wonder he relates to them
        as he does!

        Below is the site Klemp was talking
        about. What's interesting is reading
        the bios of these people and looking
        at their pictures! For being "experts
        in their fields" most certainly don't
        look like they've been walking the
        walk! Very unhealthy looking! Hey!
        Klemp doesn't walk the walk either!
        Look at his health!


        http://www.weightandwellness.com/

        Prometheus
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