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HK's Front Page Article (part 1) - The H.I. Letter 12/2009

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, I thought that this would be interesting for all to read and to comment on. My bracketed [ ] comments and caps are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 11, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello All,
      I thought that this would be interesting
      for all to read and to comment on.
      My bracketed [ ] comments and caps
      are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:

      The H.I. Letter December 2009

      HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
      An ECK principle states that good
      health is an aid to spiritual unfoldment."

      ME: [I don't think that this is an "ECK
      principle" per se. But, one does feel
      more positive and happy about life
      when they have good health. However,
      isn't poor health (like cancer) seen
      as a test of faith for the ECKist/religionist?]

      HK: "With that in mind, let us consider
      how to better our health, and thus enjoy
      living in a more satisfying way.

      A couple, ECK Higher Initiates, approached
      me in a food store. The wife mentioned
      a problem with constipation [oh sh_t!],
      a common complaint that goes with
      the graying of hair [like with the Klemps'].

      I told her of a certain liquid magnesium.
      It is ten to twelve times more effective
      than the capsules she was using. And
      later, I heard [her fart and] that it was
      giving her relief.

      Yet constipation told a deeper, more
      fundamental condition, which was
      related to nutrition.

      As the ECK would have it, I met the
      couple two weeks later."

      ME: [They were stalking you, dummy!
      Is Klemp the spokesperson for all New
      Age methods and supplements such as
      Laetrile? He suggested that his oldest
      brother, Duane, go to Mexico for Laetrile
      treatments for cancer. HK couldn't help
      him anymore, then, than he can help chelas
      now! Actually, many of HK's suggestions
      and practices (avoidance of M.D.s and
      of current, valid, and accepted medical
      treatments) does more harm than good.]

      HK: "So I recommended a local radio
      program that addresses health issues.

      The Usual Hosts are a NUTRITIONIST
      and a DIETICIAN, both longtime practitioners
      in their respective fields. And both are
      dedicated to helping people overcome
      ailments of all kinds."

      ME: [Is Klemp naive or stupid to be
      giving recommendations? As LEM/
      Mahanta with ALL KNOWLEDGE
      available to him... why doesn't he
      have his own radio show? Why do
      unpaid Vahanas have to do all the
      work? He's getting paid for doing
      what, all day long? Let's hear a
      live conversation, views, and a
      Q & A segment for non-ECKists!
      Harry's just lazy and is not what
      he claims to be. The proof is in the
      pudding!]

      HK: "More than 90 percent of ALL
      health issues, THEY SAY, are due
      to poor nutrition.

      THEY STRONGLY discourage the
      use of chocolate and coffee, for both
      are linked to jumpy nerves, and even
      to migraine headaches. The problem
      is the Caffeine in them."

      ME: [Yet, Klemp overlooks the fact
      that DARK Chocolate is good for
      heart health, and caffeine doesn't
      affect all people the same. Besides,
      there is always DEcaffeinated coffee!
      Klemp has such a limited focus!]

      HK: "Soft drinks, too, are FROWNED
      upon,both for Caffeine as well as
      Carbohydrates."

      ME: [Well, limit drinking these to one
      or two DIET (sugar free) Caffeine FREE
      soft drinks per day! And, use a straw
      to prevent staining your teeth!]

      HK: "Divide the latter by four to find the
      amount of sugar that the carbohydrates
      convert to, in teaspoonfuls. For example,
      a Drink or Processed Food with twenty-eight
      grams of carbohydrates soon changes
      during digestion, into seven teaspoons
      of sugar, which may produce all kinds
      of problems for young and old alike."

      ME: [Klemp has become quite the expert,
      by proxy, but should this stuff (health info
      available to anyone on the internet) be
      in the H.I. Letter? Most EKies will interpret
      this to mean that Klemp (the LEM/Mahanta)
      is "frowning upon" using soft drinks and
      chocolate. I will have to say that about 30
      years ago, while attending a Darji Potluck,
      one EK Leader suggested that Chocolate
      be banded from future potlucks. It seems
      that Klemp is finally up-to-speed, for him.]

      HK: "A LICENSED Nutritionist must go
      through A More Thorough Training
      Program than does a Dietician."

      ME: [Yet, Klemp stated earlier that
      the radio program he's recommending
      is Co-hosted by a "Dietician!" Thus,
      half of the comments and health advice
      are being given by a less qualified person.
      Klemp likes to have it both ways. Those
      who are no longer mesmerized by him
      can see beyond his double talk!]

      HK: "Should you be looking for a nutritionist,
      be sure that the individual is licensed."

      ME: [Is being "licensed" a guarantee
      that they really know what they are
      talking about? No! Klemp's an idiot!]

      HK: "I understand that in some places,
      nearly anyone can claim to be a nutritionist."

      ME: [And, nearly anyone can "claim to
      be" a LEM/Mahanta!]

      HK: "At a recent meeting of the ECKANKAR
      Board of Trustees, we handled the business
      first. Then they asked if I would speak to
      them."

      ME: [Hmmmm. Maybe they wanted to be
      given some real "spiritual meat" for a "change"]

      HK: "So the ECK lit up for me the topic of
      nutrition, and its vital relationship with good
      health."

      ME: [The Board could have read about it
      in this H.I. Letter article or tuned into the
      radio program, except, Klemp now thinks
      he's an expert (of sorts) and wants to tout
      his newly found knowledge.]

      HK: "A Board Member asked for more
      information and the aforementioned radio
      program.

      I GENERALLY steer clear of recommending
      doctors and the like, because you can usually
      find a qualified practitioner right in the local
      area. BUT this member lived far from a licensed
      nutritionist,

      ME: [Beyond Radio/Computer EMF waves?]

      HK: so I passed along their company's
      Internet address. It is www.weightandwellness.
      com. BUT note, advice that helps others may
      hurt you."

      ME: [Or, handing out advice may hurt Klemp
      more since he broke the Law of NonInterference
      by printing this, unsolicited, health advice!
      However, let's not forget that Klemp is directing
      his H.I.s to risk their health by tuning into the
      Radio EMF Waves and to the EMF that their
      computers generate. They have to be careful
      because it's obvious that they don't have HK's
      (LEM/Mahanta) protection!]

      HK: "THEY are EXPERTS in their fields.
      Helping people find better health is their
      main concern." END of Part 1

      ME: I'd say that their "main concern" is
      making money just as it is with Klemp!
      And, the Dietician nor the Nutritionist
      are Medical Doctors or have a Ph.D in
      a health related field. I'm trying to figure
      out why Klemp is claiming that "THEY
      ARE EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELDS."
      How's that work? Don't "they" just second
      guess other so-called "experts" and
      look at studies of a narrow and bias
      focus with old information that supports
      their philosophy. Hey! That's what Klemp
      does! It's no wonder he relates to them
      as he does!

      Below is the site Klemp was talking
      about. What's interesting is reading
      the bios of these people and looking
      at their pictures! For being "experts
      in their fields" most certainly don't
      look like they've been walking the
      walk! Very unhealthy looking! Hey!
      Klemp doesn't walk the walk either!
      Look at his health!


      http://www.weightandwellness.com/

      Prometheus
    • prometheus_973
      According to Eckankar, and Klemp, H.I.s (5-14) are beyond Karma. Thus, poor health (disease) is seen as a test. Why do many H.I.s take Homeopathic Remedies
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 14, 2009
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        According to Eckankar, and Klemp,
        H.I.s (5-14) are beyond Karma. Thus,
        poor health (disease) is seen as a "test."

        Why do many H.I.s take Homeopathic
        Remedies when they have the LEM/
        Mahanta's "protection?" Are they 'tying
        up their camels?' Is this why they take
        all of those vitamins and supplements
        too? Is this why they stay away from
        their computers (EMF fears)? What else
        do EK H.I.s have to do to protect their
        health? Flu shots? I doubt it! They have
        too much fear involved with taking the
        vaccine!

        Or, do ECK H.I.s think that the Mahanta
        will protect them from the flu? Yet, HK
        didn't protect those H.I.s who developed
        Cancer! And, these H.I.s were doing/taking
        everything available to them! They HUed,
        did the spiritual exercises, volunteered,
        fasted, did the HIRO thing followed the
        Four Zoas and everything a good little H.I.
        is told/expected to do.

        When does Klemp ever take responsibility
        for anything? Never! There is No Protection
        by the Mahanta (Klemp)! It's all talk and
        more B.S. promises just as it is with all
        religions! Why are there Metal Detectors
        and bag searches at Major EK Seminars?
        There're control tactics and fear going on!
        Yet, Klemp makes sure that there are
        always those "Stories" (testimonials) by
        Eckists who have had a "spiritual experience."
        This is just PR and every religion has it
        in order to placate their current members
        and to strengthen their "hope" and "belief"
        in the PR-Dogma. It's brain-washing!
        A good EK Story would be that everyone
        was "protected" by the Mahanta via the
        Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the
        Seminar and at the Temple of EK!

        If one needs a religion and something
        to believe in it seems that Klemp's
        Lutheran version of Eckankar (B.S.) is
        typical. True, it's not really the "spiritual
        path" that chelas signed-up for in the
        beginning, (unless one has forgotten
        this or their imaginations have become
        too deluded over time), but pretend can
        be fulfilling and give a false (but feel-good)
        sense of security and worth. Actually,
        it nice to have good self-worth, but being
        an H.I. tends to give many a delusional
        amount of worth and power. They can't
        handle it, and yet to have the higher
        initiation is supposed to mean that they
        have "mastered" the Lower Planes and
        all that goes with a Lower Consciousness.
        However, we all know that this isn't true!
        Once more we have a lie that is glossed
        over and unexplained... except that the
        con "changes" moment to moment! At
        last the Truth!

        Believing in the Mahanta's powers etc.
        is like believing in Santa Claus. Pretend
        can be fun too! And, it always good and
        reassuring to have other like-minded
        people to be in the same boat as you.

        Prometheus

        prometheus wrote:
        Hello All,
        I thought that this would be interesting
        for all to read and to comment on.
        My bracketed [ ] comments and caps
        are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:

        The H.I. Letter December 2009

        HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
        An ECK principle states that good
        health is an aid to spiritual unfoldment."

        ME: [I don't think that this is an "ECK
        principle" per se. But, one does feel
        more positive and happy about life
        when they have good health. However,
        isn't poor health (like cancer) seen
        as a test of faith for the ECKist/religionist?]

        HK: "With that in mind, let us consider
        how to better our health, and thus enjoy
        living in a more satisfying way.

        A couple, ECK Higher Initiates, approached
        me in a food store. The wife mentioned
        a problem with constipation [oh sh_t!],
        a common complaint that goes with
        the graying of hair [like with the Klemps'].

        I told her of a certain liquid magnesium.
        It is ten to twelve times more effective
        than the capsules she was using. And
        later, I heard [her fart and] that it was
        giving her relief.

        Yet constipation told a deeper, more
        fundamental condition, which was
        related to nutrition.

        As the ECK would have it, I met the
        couple two weeks later."

        ME: [They were stalking you, dummy!
        Is Klemp the spokesperson for all New
        Age methods and supplements such as
        Laetrile? He suggested that his oldest
        brother, Duane, go to Mexico for Laetrile
        treatments for cancer. HK couldn't help
        him anymore, then, than he can help chelas
        now! Actually, many of HK's suggestions
        and practices (avoidance of M.D.s and
        of current, valid, and accepted medical
        treatments) does more harm than good.]

        HK: "So I recommended a local radio
        program that addresses health issues.

        The Usual Hosts are a NUTRITIONIST
        and a DIETICIAN, both longtime practitioners
        in their respective fields. And both are
        dedicated to helping people overcome
        ailments of all kinds."

        ME: [Is Klemp naive or stupid to be
        giving recommendations? As LEM/
        Mahanta with ALL KNOWLEDGE
        available to him... why doesn't he
        have his own radio show? Why do
        unpaid Vahanas have to do all the
        work? He's getting paid for doing
        what, all day long? Let's hear a
        live conversation, views, and a
        Q & A segment for non-ECKists!
        Harry's just lazy and is not what
        he claims to be. The proof is in the
        pudding!]

        HK: "More than 90 percent of ALL
        health issues, THEY SAY, are due
        to poor nutrition.

        THEY STRONGLY discourage the
        use of chocolate and coffee, for both
        are linked to jumpy nerves, and even
        to migraine headaches. The problem
        is the Caffeine in them."

        ME: [Yet, Klemp overlooks the fact
        that DARK Chocolate is good for
        heart health, and caffeine doesn't
        affect all people the same. Besides,
        there is always DEcaffeinated coffee!
        Klemp has such a limited focus!]

        HK: "Soft drinks, too, are FROWNED
        upon,both for Caffeine as well as
        Carbohydrates."

        ME: [Well, limit drinking these to one
        or two DIET (sugar free) Caffeine FREE
        soft drinks per day! And, use a straw
        to prevent staining your teeth!]

        HK: "Divide the latter by four to find the
        amount of sugar that the carbohydrates
        convert to, in teaspoonfuls. For example,
        a Drink or Processed Food with twenty-eight
        grams of carbohydrates soon changes
        during digestion, into seven teaspoons
        of sugar, which may produce all kinds
        of problems for young and old alike."

        ME: [Klemp has become quite the expert,
        by proxy, but should this stuff (health info
        available to anyone on the internet) be
        in the H.I. Letter? Most EKies will interpret
        this to mean that Klemp (the LEM/Mahanta)
        is "frowning upon" using soft drinks and
        chocolate. I will have to say that about 30
        years ago, while attending a Darji Potluck,
        one EK Leader suggested that Chocolate
        be banded from future potlucks. It seems
        that Klemp is finally up-to-speed, for him.]

        HK: "A LICENSED Nutritionist must go
        through A More Thorough Training
        Program than does a Dietician."

        ME: [Yet, Klemp stated earlier that
        the radio program he's recommending
        is Co-hosted by a "Dietician!" Thus,
        half of the comments and health advice
        are being given by a less qualified person.
        Klemp likes to have it both ways. Those
        who are no longer mesmerized by him
        can see beyond his double talk!]

        HK: "Should you be looking for a nutritionist,
        be sure that the individual is licensed."

        ME: [Is being "licensed" a guarantee
        that they really know what they are
        talking about? No! Klemp's an idiot!]

        HK: "I understand that in some places,
        nearly anyone can claim to be a nutritionist."

        ME: [And, nearly anyone can "claim to
        be" a LEM/Mahanta!]

        HK: "At a recent meeting of the ECKANKAR
        Board of Trustees, we handled the business
        first. Then they asked if I would speak to
        them."

        ME: [Hmmmm. Maybe they wanted to be
        given some real "spiritual meat" for a "change"]

        HK: "So the ECK lit up for me the topic of
        nutrition, and its vital relationship with good
        health."

        ME: [The Board could have read about it
        in this H.I. Letter article or tuned into the
        radio program, except, Klemp now thinks
        he's an expert (of sorts) and wants to tout
        his newly found knowledge.]

        HK: "A Board Member asked for more
        information and the aforementioned radio
        program.

        I GENERALLY steer clear of recommending
        doctors and the like, because you can usually
        find a qualified practitioner right in the local
        area. BUT this member lived far from a licensed
        nutritionist,

        ME: [Beyond Radio/Computer EMF waves?]

        HK: so I passed along their company's
        Internet address. It is www.weightandwellness.
        com. BUT note, advice that helps others may
        hurt you."

        ME: [Or, handing out advice may hurt Klemp
        more since he broke the Law of NonInterference
        by printing this, unsolicited, health advice!
        However, let's not forget that Klemp is directing
        his H.I.s to risk their health by tuning into the
        Radio EMF Waves and to the EMF that their
        computers generate. They have to be careful
        because it's obvious that they don't have HK's
        (LEM/Mahanta) protection!]

        HK: "THEY are EXPERTS in their fields.
        Helping people find better health is their
        main concern." END of Part 1

        ME: I'd say that their "main concern" is
        making money just as it is with Klemp!
        And, the Dietician nor the Nutritionist
        are Medical Doctors or have a Ph.D in
        a health related field. I'm trying to figure
        out why Klemp is claiming that "THEY
        ARE EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELDS."
        How's that work? Don't "they" just second
        guess other so-called "experts" and
        look at studies of a narrow and bias
        focus with old information that supports
        their philosophy. Hey! That's what Klemp
        does! It's no wonder he relates to them
        as he does!

        Below is the site Klemp was talking
        about. What's interesting is reading
        the bios of these people and looking
        at their pictures! For being "experts
        in their fields" most certainly don't
        look like they've been walking the
        walk! Very unhealthy looking! Hey!
        Klemp doesn't walk the walk either!
        Look at his health!


        http://www.weightandwellness.com/

        Prometheus
      • etznab@aol.com
        On the subject of initiations. Were there ever only three at one time? Also, in 1969, didn t Paul say there were only about a half dozen thirds? I m not sure
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 14, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          On the subject of initiations. Were there ever only
          three at one time?

          Also, in 1969, didn't Paul say there were only about
          a half dozen thirds? I'm not sure what that meant.
          Like, Were those the most HI's in 1969?

          I guess it kinda makes sense if Eckankar was not
          founded until 1965 and it takes two years before a
          second initiation.

          In any case, it seems to me that most initiations
          (above the 3rd) first happened during the time of
          Darwin Gross. From October 1971-1981.

          Not saying a lot of initiations didn't happened in the
          time of Harold Klemp, the current leader, just that
          there must have been an awful lot of initiations from
          the time Eckankar became a non-profit religious or-
          ganization in 1970. And after Fall 1971 as Darwin
          became the Master.

          1970 would have been about three years after the
          2nd initiation, for people who got initiated in 1965.
          So, IMO, it looks like most of the first 3rd, 4th and
          5th initiates, etc. got their initiations during the time
          of Darwin Gross.

          Etznab

          -----Original Message-----
          From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, Dec 14, 2009 2:29 pm
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Klemp's Suggestions To H.I.s For
          Good Health

           
          According to Eckankar, and Klemp,
          H.I.s (5-14) are beyond Karma. Thus,
          poor health (disease) is seen as a "test."

          Why do many H.I.s take Homeopathic
          Remedies when they have the LEM/
          Mahanta's "protection?" Are they 'tying
          up their camels?' Is this why they take
          all of those vitamins and supplements
          too? Is this why they stay away from
          their computers (EMF fears)? What else
          do EK H.I.s have to do to protect their
          health? Flu shots? I doubt it! They have
          too much fear involved with taking the
          vaccine!

          Or, do ECK H.I.s think that the Mahanta
          will protect them from the flu? Yet, HK
          didn't protect those H.I.s who developed
          Cancer! And, these H.I.s were doing/taking
          everything available to them! They HUed,
          did the spiritual exercises, volunteered,
          fasted, did the HIRO thing followed the
          Four Zoas and everything a good little H.I.
          is told/expected to do.

          When does Klemp ever take responsibility
          for anything? Never! There is No Protection
          by the Mahanta (Klemp)! It's all talk and
          more B.S. promises just as it is with all
          religions! Why are there Metal Detectors
          and bag searches at Major EK Seminars?
          There're control tactics and fear going on!
          Yet, Klemp makes sure that there are
          always those "Stories" (testimonials) by
          Eckists who have had a "spiritual experience."
          This is just PR and every religion has it
          in order to placate their current members
          and to strengthen their "hope" and "belief"
          in the PR-Dogma. It's brain-washing!
          A good EK Story would be that everyone
          was "protected" by the Mahanta via the
          Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the
          Seminar and at the Temple of EK!

          If one needs a religion and something
          to believe in it seems that Klemp's
          Lutheran version of Eckankar (B.S.) is
          typical. True, it's not really the "spiritual
          path" that chelas signed-up for in the
          beginning, (unless one has forgotten
          this or their imaginations have become
          too deluded over time), but pretend can
          be fulfilling and give a false (but feel-good)
          sense of security and worth. Actually,
          it nice to have good self-worth, but being
          an H.I. tends to give many a delusional
          amount of worth and power. They can't
          handle it, and yet to have the higher
          initiation is supposed to mean that they
          have "mastered" the Lower Planes and
          all that goes with a Lower Consciousness.
          However, we all know that this isn't true!
          Once more we have a lie that is glossed
          over and unexplained... except that the
          con "changes" moment to moment! At
          last the Truth!

          Believing in the Mahanta's powers etc.
          is like believing in Santa Claus. Pretend
          can be fun too! And, it always good and
          reassuring to have other like-minded
          people to be in the same boat as you.

          Prometheus

          prometheus wrote:
          Hello All,
          I thought that this would be interesting
          for all to read and to comment on.
          My bracketed [ ] comments and caps
          are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:

          The H.I. Letter December 2009

          HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
          An ECK principle states that good
          health is an aid to spiritual unfoldment."

          ME: [I don't think that this is an "ECK
          principle" per se. But, one does feel
          more positive and happy about life
          when they have good health. However,
          isn't poor health (like cancer) seen
          as a test of faith for the ECKist/religionist?]

          HK: "With that in mind, let us consider
          how to better our health, and thus enjoy
          living in a more satisfying way.

          A couple, ECK Higher Initiates, approached
          me in a food store. The wife mentioned
          a problem with constipation [oh sh_t!],
          a common complaint that goes with
          the graying of hair [like with the Klemps'].

          I told her of a certain liquid magnesium.
          It is ten to twelve times more effective
          than the capsules she was using. And
          later, I heard [her fart and] that it was
          giving her relief.

          Yet constipation told a deeper, more
          fundamental condition, which was
          related to nutrition.

          As the ECK would have it, I met the
          couple two weeks later."

          ME: [They were stalking you, dummy!
          Is Klemp the spokesperson for all New
          Age methods and supplements such as
          Laetrile? He suggested that his oldest
          brother, Duane, go to Mexico for Laetrile
          treatments for cancer. HK couldn't help
          him anymore, then, than he can help chelas
          now! Actually, many of HK's suggestions
          and practices (avoidance of M.D.s and
          of current, valid, and accepted medical
          treatments) does more harm than good.]

          HK: "So I recommended a local radio
          program that addresses health issues.

          The Usual Hosts are a NUTRITIONIST
          and a DIETICIAN, both longtime practitioners
          in their respective fields. And both are
          dedicated to helping people overcome
          ailments of all kinds."

          ME: [Is Klemp naive or stupid to be
          giving recommendations? As LEM/
          Mahanta with ALL KNOWLEDGE
          available to him... why doesn't he
          have his own radio show? Why do
          unpaid Vahanas have to do all the
          work? He's getting paid for doing
          what, all day long? Let's hear a
          live conversation, views, and a
          Q & A segment for non-ECKists!
          Harry's just lazy and is not what
          he claims to be. The proof is in the
          pudding!]

          HK: "More than 90 percent of ALL
          health issues, THEY SAY, are due
          to poor nutrition.

          THEY STRONGLY discourage the
          use of chocolate and coffee, for both
          are linked to jumpy nerves, and even
          to migraine headaches. The problem
          is the Caffeine in them."

          ME: [Yet, Klemp overlooks the fact
          that DARK Chocolate is good for
          heart health, and caffeine doesn't
          affect all people the same. Besides,
          there is always DEcaffeinated coffee!
          Klemp has such a limited focus!]

          HK: "Soft drinks, too, are FROWNED
          upon,both for Caffeine as well as
          Carbohydrates."

          ME: [Well, limit drinking these to one
          or two DIET (sugar free) Caffeine FREE
          soft drinks per day! And, use a straw
          to prevent staining your teeth!]

          HK: "Divide the latter by four to find the
          amount of sugar that the carbohydrates
          convert to, in teaspoonfuls. For example,
          a Drink or Processed Food with twenty-eight
          grams of carbohydrates soon changes
          during digestion, into seven teaspoons
          of sugar, which may produce all kinds
          of problems for young and old alike."

          ME: [Klemp has become quite the expert,
          by proxy, but should this stuff (health info
          available to anyone on the internet) be
          in the H.I. Letter? Most EKies will interpret
          this to mean that Klemp (the LEM/Mahanta)
          is "frowning upon" using soft drinks and
          chocolate. I will have to say that about 30
          years ago, while attending a Darji Potluck,
          one EK Leader suggested that Chocolate
          be banded from future potlucks. It seems
          that Klemp is finally up-to-speed, for him.]

          HK: "A LICENSED Nutritionist must go
          through A More Thorough Training
          Program than does a Dietician."

          ME: [Yet, Klemp stated earlier that
          the radio program he's recommending
          is Co-hosted by a "Dietician!" Thus,
          half of the comments and health advice
          are being given by a less qualified person.
          Klemp likes to have it both ways. Those
          who are no longer mesmerized by him
          can see beyond his double talk!]

          HK: "Should you be looking for a nutritionist,
          be sure that the individual is licensed."

          ME: [Is being "licensed" a guarantee
          that they really know what they are
          talking about? No! Klemp's an idiot!]

          HK: "I understand that in some places,
          nearly anyone can claim to be a nutritionist."

          ME: [And, nearly anyone can "claim to
          be" a LEM/Mahanta!]

          HK: "At a recent meeting of the ECKANKAR
          Board of Trustees, we handled the business
          first. Then they asked if I would speak to
          them."

          ME: [Hmmmm. Maybe they wanted to be
          given some real "spiritual meat" for a "change"]

          HK: "So the ECK lit up for me the topic of
          nutrition, and its vital relationship with good
          health."

          ME: [The Board could have read about it
          in this H.I. Letter article or tuned into the
          radio program, except, Klemp now thinks
          he's an expert (of sorts) and wants to tout
          his newly found knowledge.]

          HK: "A Board Member asked for more
          information and the aforementioned radio
          program.

          I GENERALLY steer clear of recommending
          doctors and the like, because you can usually
          find a qualified practitioner right in the local
          area. BUT this member lived far from a licensed
          nutritionist,

          ME: [Beyond Radio/Computer EMF waves?]

          HK: so I passed along their company's
          Internet address. It is www.weightandwellness.
          com. BUT note, advice that helps others may
          hurt you."

          ME: [Or, handing out advice may hurt Klemp
          more since he broke the Law of NonInterference
          by printing this, unsolicited, health advice!
          However, let's not forget that Klemp is directing
          his H.I.s to risk their health by tuning into the
          Radio EMF Waves and to the EMF that their
          computers generate. They have to be careful
          because it's obvious that they don't have HK's
          (LEM/Mahanta) protection!]

          HK: "THEY are EXPERTS in their fields.
          Helping people find better health is their
          main concern." END of Part 1

          ME: I'd say that their "main concern" is
          making money just as it is with Klemp!
          And, the Dietician nor the Nutritionist
          are Medical Doctors or have a Ph.D in
          a health related field. I'm trying to figure
          out why Klemp is claiming that "THEY
          ARE EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELDS."
          How's that work? Don't "they" just second
          guess other so-called "experts" and
          look at studies of a narrow and bias
          focus with old information that supports
          their philosophy. Hey! That's what Klemp
          does! It's no wonder he relates to them
          as he does!

          Below is the site Klemp was talking
          about. What's interesting is reading
          the bios of these people and looking
          at their pictures! For being "experts
          in their fields" most certainly don't
          look like they've been walking the
          walk! Very unhealthy looking! Hey!
          Klemp doesn't walk the walk either!
          Look at his health!

          http://www.weightandwellness.com/

          Prometheus
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Etznab and All, It s true that Darwin gave out many more initiations than Klemp. After all, Klemp got 6-12 from Darwin! BTW- In Difficulties on page
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 15, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Etznab and All,
            It's true that Darwin gave out many
            more initiations than Klemp. After
            all, Klemp got 6-12 from Darwin!

            BTW- In "Difficulties" on page 255,
            "Paul Translates," is this quote that
            shows that these two Higher Initiates
            were of Paul's inner circle:

            "A short time after they had departed
            one of the Fifth Initiates [Anita Foos]
            felt a sharp call on the inner to go to
            him... The separation was immediate
            and Doctor Louis Bluth, 7th Initiate,
            witnessed Paulji ascending [to heaven]
            in the company of the ECK Masters
            of the Vairagi."

            I wonder why Klemp doesn't want
            this historical and inspirational book
            reprinted? Isn't this a good EK "story,"
            or "testimonial" that gives some validity
            to the EK teachings? What does Klemp
            fear by Not sharing this book with all
            ECKists? HK could make it one of the
            "members only" books if he doesn't
            want the public reading some of PT's
            more controversial comments.

            Getting back to the EK Initiations
            and Klemp... it is strange [or not]
            that EKists have accepted his "slowing
            -down of initiations" strategy for
            all of these years. When was that
            speech made? Wasn't it around
            1985? So, why have EK initiations
            been "slowed-down" for almost
            25 years?

            Why aren't there hundreds of 8ths
            by now? What happened to all of
            those promises about the raising
            of consciousness? It's Bait and Switch,
            and it will continue because Klemp
            is a selfish narcissist! ECKists should
            draw a line in the sand and tell
            Klemp to put-up or shut-up!
            But, that will never happen. ECKists
            don't dare say anything to criticize
            the negative and detrimental policies
            of the All Powerful LEM/Mahanta!
            It would only get them placed on
            their RESA's "Black List" and have
            their files at the ESC "Red Flagged."

            It's like walking on egg shells being
            a good little H.I.. But that carrot
            of initiation is still being dangled
            in front of them. I just don't see
            why the 7ths are still staying...
            it must be EGO due to their "high"
            status. Many like to be admired
            and love being guest speakers at
            Regional Seminars. And, they fear
            that they would have no EK friends
            left if they made the change and
            left Eckankar. Loneliness can be
            unpleasant. However, and what's
            funny, is that it's also a "test" for
            all of their so-called EK friends.
            Most of them FAIL the test of
            demonstrating "unconditional love"
            miserably! One has to wonder why
            they are called Higher Initiates!


            Prometheus


            etznab wrote:

            On the subject of initiations. Were there ever only
            three at one time?

            Also, in 1969, didn't Paul say there were only about
            a half dozen thirds? I'm not sure what that meant.
            Like, Were those the most HI's in 1969?

            I guess it kinda makes sense if Eckankar was not
            founded until 1965 and it takes two years before a
            second initiation.

            In any case, it seems to me that most initiations
            (above the 3rd) first happened during the time of
            Darwin Gross. From October 1971-1981.

            Not saying a lot of initiations didn't happened in the
            time of Harold Klemp, the current leader, just that
            there must have been an awful lot of initiations from
            the time Eckankar became a non-profit religious or-
            ganization in 1970. And after Fall 1971 as Darwin
            became the Master.

            1970 would have been about three years after the
            2nd initiation, for people who got initiated in 1965.
            So, IMO, it looks like most of the first 3rd, 4th and
            5th initiates, etc. got their initiations during the time
            of Darwin Gross.

            Etznab

            Prometheus wrote:
            According to Eckankar, and Klemp,
            H.I.s (5-14) are beyond Karma. Thus,
            poor health (disease) is seen as a "test."

            Why do many H.I.s take Homeopathic
            Remedies when they have the LEM/
            Mahanta's "protection?" Are they 'tying
            up their camels?' Is this why they take
            all of those vitamins and supplements
            too? Is this why they stay away from
            their computers (EMF fears)? What else
            do EK H.I.s have to do to protect their
            health? Flu shots? I doubt it! They have
            too much fear involved with taking the
            vaccine!

            Or, do ECK H.I.s think that the Mahanta
            will protect them from the flu? Yet, HK
            didn't protect those H.I.s who developed
            Cancer! And, these H.I.s were doing/taking
            everything available to them! They HUed,
            did the spiritual exercises, volunteered,
            fasted, did the HIRO thing followed the
            Four Zoas and everything a good little H.I.
            is told/expected to do.

            When does Klemp ever take responsibility
            for anything? Never! There is No Protection
            by the Mahanta (Klemp)! It's all talk and
            more B.S. promises just as it is with all
            religions! Why are there Metal Detectors
            and bag searches at Major EK Seminars?
            There're control tactics and fear going on!
            Yet, Klemp makes sure that there are
            always those "Stories" (testimonials) by
            Eckists who have had a "spiritual experience."
            This is just PR and every religion has it
            in order to placate their current members
            and to strengthen their "hope" and "belief"
            in the PR-Dogma. It's brain-washing!
            A good EK Story would be that everyone
            was "protected" by the Mahanta via the
            Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the
            Seminar and at the Temple of EK!

            If one needs a religion and something
            to believe in it seems that Klemp's
            Lutheran version of Eckankar (B.S.) is
            typical. True, it's not really the "spiritual
            path" that chelas signed-up for in the
            beginning, (unless one has forgotten
            this or their imaginations have become
            too deluded over time), but pretend can
            be fulfilling and give a false (but feel-good)
            sense of security and worth. Actually,
            it nice to have good self-worth, but being
            an H.I. tends to give many a delusional
            amount of worth and power. They can't
            handle it, and yet to have the higher
            initiation is supposed to mean that they
            have "mastered" the Lower Planes and
            all that goes with a Lower Consciousness.
            However, we all know that this isn't true!
            Once more we have a lie that is glossed
            over and unexplained... except that the
            con "changes" moment to moment! At
            last the Truth!

            Believing in the Mahanta's powers etc.
            is like believing in Santa Claus. Pretend
            can be fun too! And, it always good and
            reassuring to have other like-minded
            people to be in the same boat as you.

            Prometheus

            prometheus wrote:
            Hello All,
            I thought that this would be interesting
            for all to read and to comment on.
            My bracketed [ ] comments and caps
            are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:

            The H.I. Letter December 2009

            HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
            An ECK principle states that good
            health is an aid to spiritual unfoldment."

            ME: [I don't think that this is an "ECK
            principle" per se. But, one does feel
            more positive and happy about life
            when they have good health. However,
            isn't poor health (like cancer) seen
            as a test of faith for the ECKist/religionist?]

            HK: "With that in mind, let us consider
            how to better our health, and thus enjoy
            living in a more satisfying way.

            A couple, ECK Higher Initiates, approached
            me in a food store. The wife mentioned
            a problem with constipation [oh sh_t!],
            a common complaint that goes with
            the graying of hair [like with the Klemps'].

            I told her of a certain liquid magnesium.
            It is ten to twelve times more effective
            than the capsules she was using. And
            later, I heard [her fart and] that it was
            giving her relief.

            Yet constipation told a deeper, more
            fundamental condition, which was
            related to nutrition.

            As the ECK would have it, I met the
            couple two weeks later."

            ME: [They were stalking you, dummy!
            Is Klemp the spokesperson for all New
            Age methods and supplements such as
            Laetrile? He suggested that his oldest
            brother, Duane, go to Mexico for Laetrile
            treatments for cancer. HK couldn't help
            him anymore, then, than he can help chelas
            now! Actually, many of HK's suggestions
            and practices (avoidance of M.D.s and
            of current, valid, and accepted medical
            treatments) does more harm than good.]

            HK: "So I recommended a local radio
            program that addresses health issues.

            The Usual Hosts are a NUTRITIONIST
            and a DIETICIAN, both longtime practitioners
            in their respective fields. And both are
            dedicated to helping people overcome
            ailments of all kinds."

            ME: [Is Klemp naive or stupid to be
            giving recommendations? As LEM/
            Mahanta with ALL KNOWLEDGE
            available to him... why doesn't he
            have his own radio show? Why do
            unpaid Vahanas have to do all the
            work? He's getting paid for doing
            what, all day long? Let's hear a
            live conversation, views, and a
            Q & A segment for non-ECKists!
            Harry's just lazy and is not what
            he claims to be. The proof is in the
            pudding!]

            HK: "More than 90 percent of ALL
            health issues, THEY SAY, are due
            to poor nutrition.

            THEY STRONGLY discourage the
            use of chocolate and coffee, for both
            are linked to jumpy nerves, and even
            to migraine headaches. The problem
            is the Caffeine in them."

            ME: [Yet, Klemp overlooks the fact
            that DARK Chocolate is good for
            heart health, and caffeine doesn't
            affect all people the same. Besides,
            there is always DEcaffeinated coffee!
            Klemp has such a limited focus!]

            HK: "Soft drinks, too, are FROWNED
            upon,both for Caffeine as well as
            Carbohydrates."

            ME: [Well, limit drinking these to one
            or two DIET (sugar free) Caffeine FREE
            soft drinks per day! And, use a straw
            to prevent staining your teeth!]

            HK: "Divide the latter by four to find the
            amount of sugar that the carbohydrates
            convert to, in teaspoonfuls. For example,
            a Drink or Processed Food with twenty-eight
            grams of carbohydrates soon changes
            during digestion, into seven teaspoons
            of sugar, which may produce all kinds
            of problems for young and old alike."

            ME: [Klemp has become quite the expert,
            by proxy, but should this stuff (health info
            available to anyone on the internet) be
            in the H.I. Letter? Most EKies will interpret
            this to mean that Klemp (the LEM/Mahanta)
            is "frowning upon" using soft drinks and
            chocolate. I will have to say that about 30
            years ago, while attending a Darji Potluck,
            one EK Leader suggested that Chocolate
            be banded from future potlucks. It seems
            that Klemp is finally up-to-speed, for him.]

            HK: "A LICENSED Nutritionist must go
            through A More Thorough Training
            Program than does a Dietician."

            ME: [Yet, Klemp stated earlier that
            the radio program he's recommending
            is Co-hosted by a "Dietician!" Thus,
            half of the comments and health advice
            are being given by a less qualified person.
            Klemp likes to have it both ways. Those
            who are no longer mesmerized by him
            can see beyond his double talk!]

            HK: "Should you be looking for a nutritionist,
            be sure that the individual is licensed."

            ME: [Is being "licensed" a guarantee
            that they really know what they are
            talking about? No! Klemp's an idiot!]

            HK: "I understand that in some places,
            nearly anyone can claim to be a nutritionist."

            ME: [And, nearly anyone can "claim to
            be" a LEM/Mahanta!]

            HK: "At a recent meeting of the ECKANKAR
            Board of Trustees, we handled the business
            first. Then they asked if I would speak to
            them."

            ME: [Hmmmm. Maybe they wanted to be
            given some real "spiritual meat" for a "change"]

            HK: "So the ECK lit up for me the topic of
            nutrition, and its vital relationship with good
            health."

            ME: [The Board could have read about it
            in this H.I. Letter article or tuned into the
            radio program, except, Klemp now thinks
            he's an expert (of sorts) and wants to tout
            his newly found knowledge.]

            HK: "A Board Member asked for more
            information and the aforementioned radio
            program.

            I GENERALLY steer clear of recommending
            doctors and the like, because you can usually
            find a qualified practitioner right in the local
            area. BUT this member lived far from a licensed
            nutritionist,

            ME: [Beyond Radio/Computer EMF waves?]

            HK: so I passed along their company's
            Internet address. It is www.weightandwellness.
            com. BUT note, advice that helps others may
            hurt you."

            ME: [Or, handing out advice may hurt Klemp
            more since he broke the Law of NonInterference
            by printing this, unsolicited, health advice!
            However, let's not forget that Klemp is directing
            his H.I.s to risk their health by tuning into the
            Radio EMF Waves and to the EMF that their
            computers generate. They have to be careful
            because it's obvious that they don't have HK's
            (LEM/Mahanta) protection!]

            HK: "THEY are EXPERTS in their fields.
            Helping people find better health is their
            main concern." END of Part 1

            ME: I'd say that their "main concern" is
            making money just as it is with Klemp!
            And, the Dietician nor the Nutritionist
            are Medical Doctors or have a Ph.D in
            a health related field. I'm trying to figure
            out why Klemp is claiming that "THEY
            ARE EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELDS."
            How's that work? Don't "they" just second
            guess other so-called "experts" and
            look at studies of a narrow and bias
            focus with old information that supports
            their philosophy. Hey! That's what Klemp
            does! It's no wonder he relates to them
            as he does!

            Below is the site Klemp was talking
            about. What's interesting is reading
            the bios of these people and looking
            at their pictures! For being "experts
            in their fields" most certainly don't
            look like they've been walking the
            walk! Very unhealthy looking! Hey!
            Klemp doesn't walk the walk either!
            Look at his health!

            http://www.weightandwellness.com/

            Prometheus
          • prometheus_973
            Klemp indirectly suggests that coffee is bad for ECKists health due to the caffeine. However he never mentions the caffeine in tea. Also, on the news today, I
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 15, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Klemp indirectly suggests that coffee
              is bad for ECKists' health due to the
              caffeine. However he never mentions
              the caffeine in tea. Also, on the news
              today, I heard that a study was done
              that showed that Coffee and Tea may
              ward off Diabetes. Plus, one can always
              drink decaf!

              See! Klemp has such a narrow-minded
              and one-dimentional focus and line of
              B.S., that it's pathetic that H.I.s still follow
              him! If he can't write anything better than
              this, for the H.I. Letter, it shows everyone
              that something is wrong. Yet, there's
              nothing that they can do about it. H.I.s
              are stuck with a pathetic example of a
              spiritual leader.

              No, the "INNER" is Not where Klemp
              (as the Mahanta) is to be found either.
              It's illusion that makes him into a spiritual
              giant/God! As Above, So Below... what
              you see (and read from him) is what
              you get and it's Not "changed" since,
              at least, 1990! Klemp hasn't ever said
              anything "profound" nor comparable
              to those whom he likes to quote. He's
              only likable when he's on stage smiling.
              Only Joan sees him daily. This is why he
              hides from social interaction, and would
              never host a Radio Talk Show.

              prometheus


              prometheus wrote:
              According to Eckankar, and Klemp,
              H.I.s (5-14) are beyond Karma. Thus,
              poor health (disease) is seen as a "test."

              Why do many H.I.s take Homeopathic
              Remedies when they have the LEM/
              Mahanta's "protection?" Are they 'tying
              up their camels?' Is this why they take
              all of those vitamins and supplements
              too? Is this why they stay away from
              their computers (EMF fears)? What else
              do EK H.I.s have to do to protect their
              health? Flu shots? I doubt it! They have
              too much fear involved with taking the
              vaccine!

              Or, do ECK H.I.s think that the Mahanta
              will protect them from the flu? Yet, HK
              didn't protect those H.I.s who developed
              Cancer! And, these H.I.s were doing/taking
              everything available to them! They HUed,
              did the spiritual exercises, volunteered,
              fasted, did the HIRO thing followed the
              Four Zoas and everything a good little H.I.
              is told/expected to do.

              When does Klemp ever take responsibility
              for anything? Never! There is No Protection
              by the Mahanta (Klemp)! It's all talk and
              more B.S. promises just as it is with all
              religions! Why are there Metal Detectors
              and bag searches at Major EK Seminars?
              There're control tactics and fear going on!
              Yet, Klemp makes sure that there are
              always those "Stories" (testimonials) by
              Eckists who have had a "spiritual experience."
              This is just PR and every religion has it
              in order to placate their current members
              and to strengthen their "hope" and "belief"
              in the PR-Dogma. It's brain-washing!
              A good EK Story would be that everyone
              was "protected" by the Mahanta via the
              Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the
              Seminar and at the Temple of EK!

              If one needs a religion and something
              to believe in it seems that Klemp's
              Lutheran version of Eckankar (B.S.) is
              typical. True, it's not really the "spiritual
              path" that chelas signed-up for in the
              beginning, (unless one has forgotten
              this or their imaginations have become
              too deluded over time), but pretend can
              be fulfilling and give a false (but feel-good)
              sense of security and worth. Actually,
              it nice to have good self-worth, but being
              an H.I. tends to give many a delusional
              amount of worth and power. They can't
              handle it, and yet to have the higher
              initiation is supposed to mean that they
              have "mastered" the Lower Planes and
              all that goes with a Lower Consciousness.
              However, we all know that this isn't true!
              Once more we have a lie that is glossed
              over and unexplained... except that the
              con "changes" moment to moment! At
              last the Truth!

              Believing in the Mahanta's powers etc.
              is like believing in Santa Claus. Pretend
              can be fun too! And, it always good and
              reassuring to have other like-minded
              people to be in the same boat as you.

              Prometheus

              prometheus wrote:
              Hello All,
              I thought that this would be interesting
              for all to read and to comment on.
              My bracketed [ ] comments and caps
              are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:

              The H.I. Letter December 2009

              HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
              An ECK principle states that good
              health is an aid to spiritual unfoldment."

              ME: [I don't think that this is an "ECK
              principle" per se. But, one does feel
              more positive and happy about life
              when they have good health. However,
              isn't poor health (like cancer) seen
              as a test of faith for the ECKist/religionist?]

              HK: "With that in mind, let us consider
              how to better our health, and thus enjoy
              living in a more satisfying way.

              A couple, ECK Higher Initiates, approached
              me in a food store. The wife mentioned
              a problem with constipation [oh sh_t!],
              a common complaint that goes with
              the graying of hair [like with the Klemps'].

              I told her of a certain liquid magnesium.
              It is ten to twelve times more effective
              than the capsules she was using. And
              later, I heard [her fart and] that it was
              giving her relief.

              Yet constipation told a deeper, more
              fundamental condition, which was
              related to nutrition.

              As the ECK would have it, I met the
              couple two weeks later."

              ME: [They were stalking you, dummy!
              Is Klemp the spokesperson for all New
              Age methods and supplements such as
              Laetrile? He suggested that his oldest
              brother, Duane, go to Mexico for Laetrile
              treatments for cancer. HK couldn't help
              him anymore, then, than he can help chelas
              now! Actually, many of HK's suggestions
              and practices (avoidance of M.D.s and
              of current, valid, and accepted medical
              treatments) does more harm than good.]

              HK: "So I recommended a local radio
              program that addresses health issues.

              The Usual Hosts are a NUTRITIONIST
              and a DIETICIAN, both longtime practitioners
              in their respective fields. And both are
              dedicated to helping people overcome
              ailments of all kinds."

              ME: [Is Klemp naive or stupid to be
              giving recommendations? As LEM/
              Mahanta with ALL KNOWLEDGE
              available to him... why doesn't he
              have his own radio show? Why do
              unpaid Vahanas have to do all the
              work? He's getting paid for doing
              what, all day long? Let's hear a
              live conversation, views, and a
              Q & A segment for non-ECKists!
              Harry's just lazy and is not what
              he claims to be. The proof is in the
              pudding!]

              HK: "More than 90 percent of ALL
              health issues, THEY SAY, are due
              to poor nutrition.

              THEY STRONGLY discourage the
              use of chocolate and coffee, for both
              are linked to jumpy nerves, and even
              to migraine headaches. The problem
              is the Caffeine in them."

              ME: [Yet, Klemp overlooks the fact
              that DARK Chocolate is good for
              heart health, and caffeine doesn't
              affect all people the same. Besides,
              there is always DEcaffeinated coffee!
              Klemp has such a limited focus!]

              HK: "Soft drinks, too, are FROWNED
              upon,both for Caffeine as well as
              Carbohydrates."

              ME: [Well, limit drinking these to one
              or two DIET (sugar free) Caffeine FREE
              soft drinks per day! And, use a straw
              to prevent staining your teeth!]

              HK: "Divide the latter by four to find the
              amount of sugar that the carbohydrates
              convert to, in teaspoonfuls. For example,
              a Drink or Processed Food with twenty-eight
              grams of carbohydrates soon changes
              during digestion, into seven teaspoons
              of sugar, which may produce all kinds
              of problems for young and old alike."

              ME: [Klemp has become quite the expert,
              by proxy, but should this stuff (health info
              available to anyone on the internet) be
              in the H.I. Letter? Most EKies will interpret
              this to mean that Klemp (the LEM/Mahanta)
              is "frowning upon" using soft drinks and
              chocolate. I will have to say that about 30
              years ago, while attending a Darji Potluck,
              one EK Leader suggested that Chocolate
              be banded from future potlucks. It seems
              that Klemp is finally up-to-speed, for him.]

              HK: "A LICENSED Nutritionist must go
              through A More Thorough Training
              Program than does a Dietician."

              ME: [Yet, Klemp stated earlier that
              the radio program he's recommending
              is Co-hosted by a "Dietician!" Thus,
              half of the comments and health advice
              are being given by a less qualified person.
              Klemp likes to have it both ways. Those
              who are no longer mesmerized by him
              can see beyond his double talk!]

              HK: "Should you be looking for a nutritionist,
              be sure that the individual is licensed."

              ME: [Is being "licensed" a guarantee
              that they really know what they are
              talking about? No! Klemp's an idiot!]

              HK: "I understand that in some places,
              nearly anyone can claim to be a nutritionist."

              ME: [And, nearly anyone can "claim to
              be" a LEM/Mahanta!]

              HK: "At a recent meeting of the ECKANKAR
              Board of Trustees, we handled the business
              first. Then they asked if I would speak to
              them."

              ME: [Hmmmm. Maybe they wanted to be
              given some real "spiritual meat" for a "change"]

              HK: "So the ECK lit up for me the topic of
              nutrition, and its vital relationship with good
              health."

              ME: [The Board could have read about it
              in this H.I. Letter article or tuned into the
              radio program, except, Klemp now thinks
              he's an expert (of sorts) and wants to tout
              his newly found knowledge.]

              HK: "A Board Member asked for more
              information and the aforementioned radio
              program.

              I GENERALLY steer clear of recommending
              doctors and the like, because you can usually
              find a qualified practitioner right in the local
              area. BUT this member lived far from a licensed
              nutritionist,

              ME: [Beyond Radio/Computer EMF waves?]

              HK: so I passed along their company's
              Internet address. It is www.weightandwellness.
              com. BUT note, advice that helps others may
              hurt you."

              ME: [Or, handing out advice may hurt Klemp
              more since he broke the Law of NonInterference
              by printing this, unsolicited, health advice!
              However, let's not forget that Klemp is directing
              his H.I.s to risk their health by tuning into the
              Radio EMF Waves and to the EMF that their
              computers generate. They have to be careful
              because it's obvious that they don't have HK's
              (LEM/Mahanta) protection!]

              HK: "THEY are EXPERTS in their fields.
              Helping people find better health is their
              main concern." END of Part 1

              ME: I'd say that their "main concern" is
              making money just as it is with Klemp!
              And, the Dietician nor the Nutritionist
              are Medical Doctors or have a Ph.D in
              a health related field. I'm trying to figure
              out why Klemp is claiming that "THEY
              ARE EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELDS."
              How's that work? Don't "they" just second
              guess other so-called "experts" and
              look at studies of a narrow and bias
              focus with old information that supports
              their philosophy. Hey! That's what Klemp
              does! It's no wonder he relates to them
              as he does!

              Below is the site Klemp was talking
              about. What's interesting is reading
              the bios of these people and looking
              at their pictures! For being "experts
              in their fields" most certainly don't
              look like they've been walking the
              walk! Very unhealthy looking! Hey!
              Klemp doesn't walk the walk either!
              Look at his health!


              http://www.weightandwellness.com/

              Prometheus
            • prometheus_973
              Hello All, At EK Seminars there are Workshops for those chelas who want to be on the FAST TRACK, for initiations, and those who want to be on the SPIRITUAL
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 16, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello All,
                At EK Seminars there are Workshops
                for those chelas who want to be
                on the "FAST TRACK," for initiations,
                and those who want to be on the
                "SPIRITUAL TRACK." It's all a ruse
                of course! There is No "Fast" track,
                thus, there is no "Spiritual" track!

                There are those chelas and H.I.s
                who have given up playing the
                God-Realization/Initiation game.
                For them: 'The Journey IS the Destination!'

                Other ECKists are grabbing at
                straws (promises) and those carrots
                of initiation. For them the Goal/
                Destination is upon the future
                and that of "God-Realization"
                (in this lifetime). Yet, this future
                desire and the desire for more
                Initiations negates these! One
                cannot have Lower Plane attachments
                and achieve Higher Plane rewards.

                However, this is the Catch-22
                magic that Klemp uses on his
                followers from ever achieving
                these goals. Therefore, Klemp's
                H.I.s can never complain or express
                their frustrations with his Long-
                Term Initiation Slow-Down.
                H.I.s are supposed to have
                patience... it's another "test."

                However, when one looks at the
                numbers and the handful of 8th
                Initiates one can see that the problem
                isn't with the 7ths! The problem
                is with Klemp! He doesn't want to
                share! He's selfish, narrow and closed-
                minded, petty, and is an ego driven
                narcissist. The pity is that most 7ths
                cope by visualizing themselves as
                8ths on the Inner. Unfortunately
                this delusional compensation is
                ego driven. This is how the ego
                uses the imagination to protect,
                and delude, a person from
                an unacceptable truth when it
                feels trapped. In this case 7ths
                are trapped by their religion and
                the world they have constructed
                and accepted.

                However, the Good News is that Soul
                doesn't need a religion or hierarchies
                and RESAs or Mahantas and Masters.

                Soul (we) can just look to Self
                (ourSelves) and to Spirit and keep
                it simple and uncomplicated. Answers
                and contentment will come. Sure,
                we are social animals and need
                contact and relationships with others,
                but sometimes you have to let some
                go their own way and make their own
                choices. People do tend to hold onto
                grudges for things that are ever so
                slight let alone rejecting their religion
                which you shared with them. This
                is their test proving they were never
                what they preached... like Klemp.

                When in harmony; New friends
                and experiences will appear just
                over the next hill or in a special
                way sent by Spirit.

                "Change" is not just something
                that Klemp invented. However,
                unbeknownst to Klemp, this idea
                of "change" could be the "true"
                Golden-Tongued Wisdom for H.I.s.
                It means that ECKists need to take
                drastic action and and make a
                responsible, detached, decision
                in their lives and leave Eckankar
                behind. New beginnings refresh
                one's perspective.

                Co-dependency (reliance upon
                Klemp/the Mahanta) is Not Healthy!
                Eckankar's not working, on many
                levels, for hundreds of EK members,
                especially, 7th Initiates!

                Klemp's outer promises have been
                broken and the "inner" ones are
                imaginary.

                Prometheus



                prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello Etznab and All,
                > It's true that Darwin gave out many
                > more initiations than Klemp. After
                > all, Klemp got 6-12 from Darwin!
                >
                > BTW- In "Difficulties" on page 255,
                > "Paul Translates," is this quote that
                > shows that these two Higher Initiates
                > were of Paul's inner circle:
                >
                > "A short time after they had departed
                > one of the Fifth Initiates [Anita Foos]
                > felt a sharp call on the inner to go to
                > him... The separation was immediate
                > and Doctor Louis Bluth, 7th Initiate,
                > witnessed Paulji ascending [to heaven]
                > in the company of the ECK Masters
                > of the Vairagi."
                >
                > I wonder why Klemp doesn't want
                > this historical and inspirational book
                > reprinted? Isn't this a good EK "story,"
                > or "testimonial" that gives some validity
                > to the EK teachings? What does Klemp
                > fear by Not sharing this book with all
                > ECKists? HK could make it one of the
                > "members only" books if he doesn't
                > want the public reading some of PT's
                > more controversial comments.
                >
                > Getting back to the EK Initiations
                > and Klemp... it is strange [or not]
                > that EKists have accepted his "slowing
                > -down of initiations" strategy for
                > all of these years. When was that
                > speech made? Wasn't it around
                > 1985? So, why have EK initiations
                > been "slowed-down" for almost
                > 25 years?
                >
                > Why aren't there hundreds of 8ths
                > by now? What happened to all of
                > those promises about the raising
                > of consciousness? It's Bait and Switch,
                > and it will continue because Klemp
                > is a selfish narcissist! ECKists should
                > draw a line in the sand and tell
                > Klemp to put-up or shut-up!
                > But, that will never happen. ECKists
                > don't dare say anything to criticize
                > the negative and detrimental policies
                > of the All Powerful LEM/Mahanta!
                > It would only get them placed on
                > their RESA's "Black List" and have
                > their files at the ESC "Red Flagged."
                >
                > It's like walking on egg shells being
                > a good little H.I.. But that carrot
                > of initiation is still being dangled
                > in front of them. I just don't see
                > why the 7ths are still staying...
                > it must be EGO due to their "high"
                > status. Many like to be admired
                > and love being guest speakers at
                > Regional Seminars. And, they fear
                > that they would have no EK friends
                > left if they made the change and
                > left Eckankar. Loneliness can be
                > unpleasant. However, and what's
                > funny, is that it's also a "test" for
                > all of their so-called EK friends.
                > Most of them FAIL the test of
                > demonstrating "unconditional love"
                > miserably! One has to wonder why
                > they are called Higher Initiates!
                >
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > etznab wrote:
                >
                > On the subject of initiations. Were there ever only
                > three at one time?
                >
                > Also, in 1969, didn't Paul say there were only about
                > a half dozen thirds? I'm not sure what that meant.
                > Like, Were those the most HI's in 1969?
                >
                > I guess it kinda makes sense if Eckankar was not
                > founded until 1965 and it takes two years before a
                > second initiation.
                >
                > In any case, it seems to me that most initiations
                > (above the 3rd) first happened during the time of
                > Darwin Gross. From October 1971-1981.
                >
                > Not saying a lot of initiations didn't happened in the
                > time of Harold Klemp, the current leader, just that
                > there must have been an awful lot of initiations from
                > the time Eckankar became a non-profit religious or-
                > ganization in 1970. And after Fall 1971 as Darwin
                > became the Master.
                >
                > 1970 would have been about three years after the
                > 2nd initiation, for people who got initiated in 1965.
                > So, IMO, it looks like most of the first 3rd, 4th and
                > 5th initiates, etc. got their initiations during the time
                > of Darwin Gross.
                >
                > Etznab
                >
                > Prometheus wrote:
                > According to Eckankar, and Klemp,
                > H.I.s (5-14) are beyond Karma. Thus,
                > poor health (disease) is seen as a "test."
                >
                > Why do many H.I.s take Homeopathic
                > Remedies when they have the LEM/
                > Mahanta's "protection?" Are they 'tying
                > up their camels?' Is this why they take
                > all of those vitamins and supplements
                > too? Is this why they stay away from
                > their computers (EMF fears)? What else
                > do EK H.I.s have to do to protect their
                > health? Flu shots? I doubt it! They have
                > too much fear involved with taking the
                > vaccine!
                >
                > Or, do ECK H.I.s think that the Mahanta
                > will protect them from the flu? Yet, HK
                > didn't protect those H.I.s who developed
                > Cancer! And, these H.I.s were doing/taking
                > everything available to them! They HUed,
                > did the spiritual exercises, volunteered,
                > fasted, did the HIRO thing followed the
                > Four Zoas and everything a good little H.I.
                > is told/expected to do.
                >
                > When does Klemp ever take responsibility
                > for anything? Never! There is No Protection
                > by the Mahanta (Klemp)! It's all talk and
                > more B.S. promises just as it is with all
                > religions! Why are there Metal Detectors
                > and bag searches at Major EK Seminars?
                > There're control tactics and fear going on!
                > Yet, Klemp makes sure that there are
                > always those "Stories" (testimonials) by
                > Eckists who have had a "spiritual experience."
                > This is just PR and every religion has it
                > in order to placate their current members
                > and to strengthen their "hope" and "belief"
                > in the PR-Dogma. It's brain-washing!
                > A good EK Story would be that everyone
                > was "protected" by the Mahanta via the
                > Metal Detectors and Bag Searches at the
                > Seminar and at the Temple of EK!
                >
                > If one needs a religion and something
                > to believe in it seems that Klemp's
                > Lutheran version of Eckankar (B.S.) is
                > typical. True, it's not really the "spiritual
                > path" that chelas signed-up for in the
                > beginning, (unless one has forgotten
                > this or their imaginations have become
                > too deluded over time), but pretend can
                > be fulfilling and give a false (but feel-good)
                > sense of security and worth. Actually,
                > it nice to have good self-worth, but being
                > an H.I. tends to give many a delusional
                > amount of worth and power. They can't
                > handle it, and yet to have the higher
                > initiation is supposed to mean that they
                > have "mastered" the Lower Planes and
                > all that goes with a Lower Consciousness.
                > However, we all know that this isn't true!
                > Once more we have a lie that is glossed
                > over and unexplained... except that the
                > con "changes" moment to moment! At
                > last the Truth!
                >
                > Believing in the Mahanta's powers etc.
                > is like believing in Santa Claus. Pretend
                > can be fun too! And, it always good and
                > reassuring to have other like-minded
                > people to be in the same boat as you.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > Hello All,
                > I thought that this would be interesting
                > for all to read and to comment on.
                > My bracketed [ ] comments and caps
                > are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:
                >
                > The H.I. Letter December 2009
                >
                > HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
                > An ECK principle states that good
                > health is an aid to spiritual unfoldment."
                >
                > ME: [I don't think that this is an "ECK
                > principle" per se. But, one does feel
                > more positive and happy about life
                > when they have good health. However,
                > isn't poor health (like cancer) seen
                > as a test of faith for the ECKist/religionist?]
                >
                > HK: "With that in mind, let us consider
                > how to better our health, and thus enjoy
                > living in a more satisfying way.
                >
                > A couple, ECK Higher Initiates, approached
                > me in a food store. The wife mentioned
                > a problem with constipation [oh sh_t!],
                > a common complaint that goes with
                > the graying of hair [like with the Klemps'].
                >
                > I told her of a certain liquid magnesium.
                > It is ten to twelve times more effective
                > than the capsules she was using. And
                > later, I heard [her fart and] that it was
                > giving her relief.
                >
                > Yet constipation told a deeper, more
                > fundamental condition, which was
                > related to nutrition.
                >
                > As the ECK would have it, I met the
                > couple two weeks later."
                >
                > ME: [They were stalking you, dummy!
                > Is Klemp the spokesperson for all New
                > Age methods and supplements such as
                > Laetrile? He suggested that his oldest
                > brother, Duane, go to Mexico for Laetrile
                > treatments for cancer. HK couldn't help
                > him anymore, then, than he can help chelas
                > now! Actually, many of HK's suggestions
                > and practices (avoidance of M.D.s and
                > of current, valid, and accepted medical
                > treatments) does more harm than good.]
                >
                > HK: "So I recommended a local radio
                > program that addresses health issues.
                >
                > The Usual Hosts are a NUTRITIONIST
                > and a DIETICIAN, both longtime practitioners
                > in their respective fields. And both are
                > dedicated to helping people overcome
                > ailments of all kinds."
                >
                > ME: [Is Klemp naive or stupid to be
                > giving recommendations? As LEM/
                > Mahanta with ALL KNOWLEDGE
                > available to him... why doesn't he
                > have his own radio show? Why do
                > unpaid Vahanas have to do all the
                > work? He's getting paid for doing
                > what, all day long? Let's hear a
                > live conversation, views, and a
                > Q & A segment for non-ECKists!
                > Harry's just lazy and is not what
                > he claims to be. The proof is in the
                > pudding!]
                >
                > HK: "More than 90 percent of ALL
                > health issues, THEY SAY, are due
                > to poor nutrition.
                >
                > THEY STRONGLY discourage the
                > use of chocolate and coffee, for both
                > are linked to jumpy nerves, and even
                > to migraine headaches. The problem
                > is the Caffeine in them."
                >
                > ME: [Yet, Klemp overlooks the fact
                > that DARK Chocolate is good for
                > heart health, and caffeine doesn't
                > affect all people the same. Besides,
                > there is always DEcaffeinated coffee!
                > Klemp has such a limited focus!]
                >
                > HK: "Soft drinks, too, are FROWNED
                > upon,both for Caffeine as well as
                > Carbohydrates."
                >
                > ME: [Well, limit drinking these to one
                > or two DIET (sugar free) Caffeine FREE
                > soft drinks per day! And, use a straw
                > to prevent staining your teeth!]
                >
                > HK: "Divide the latter by four to find the
                > amount of sugar that the carbohydrates
                > convert to, in teaspoonfuls. For example,
                > a Drink or Processed Food with twenty-eight
                > grams of carbohydrates soon changes
                > during digestion, into seven teaspoons
                > of sugar, which may produce all kinds
                > of problems for young and old alike."
                >
                > ME: [Klemp has become quite the expert,
                > by proxy, but should this stuff (health info
                > available to anyone on the internet) be
                > in the H.I. Letter? Most EKies will interpret
                > this to mean that Klemp (the LEM/Mahanta)
                > is "frowning upon" using soft drinks and
                > chocolate. I will have to say that about 30
                > years ago, while attending a Darji Potluck,
                > one EK Leader suggested that Chocolate
                > be banded from future potlucks. It seems
                > that Klemp is finally up-to-speed, for him.]
                >
                > HK: "A LICENSED Nutritionist must go
                > through A More Thorough Training
                > Program than does a Dietician."
                >
                > ME: [Yet, Klemp stated earlier that
                > the radio program he's recommending
                > is Co-hosted by a "Dietician!" Thus,
                > half of the comments and health advice
                > are being given by a less qualified person.
                > Klemp likes to have it both ways. Those
                > who are no longer mesmerized by him
                > can see beyond his double talk!]
                >
                > HK: "Should you be looking for a nutritionist,
                > be sure that the individual is licensed."
                >
                > ME: [Is being "licensed" a guarantee
                > that they really know what they are
                > talking about? No! Klemp's an idiot!]
                >
                > HK: "I understand that in some places,
                > nearly anyone can claim to be a nutritionist."
                >
                > ME: [And, nearly anyone can "claim to
                > be" a LEM/Mahanta!]
                >
                > HK: "At a recent meeting of the ECKANKAR
                > Board of Trustees, we handled the business
                > first. Then they asked if I would speak to
                > them."
                >
                > ME: [Hmmmm. Maybe they wanted to be
                > given some real "spiritual meat" for a "change"]
                >
                > HK: "So the ECK lit up for me the topic of
                > nutrition, and its vital relationship with good
                > health."
                >
                > ME: [The Board could have read about it
                > in this H.I. Letter article or tuned into the
                > radio program, except, Klemp now thinks
                > he's an expert (of sorts) and wants to tout
                > his newly found knowledge.]
                >
                > HK: "A Board Member asked for more
                > information and the aforementioned radio
                > program.
                >
                > I GENERALLY steer clear of recommending
                > doctors and the like, because you can usually
                > find a qualified practitioner right in the local
                > area. BUT this member lived far from a licensed
                > nutritionist,
                >
                > ME: [Beyond Radio/Computer EMF waves?]
                >
                > HK: so I passed along their company's
                > Internet address. It is www.weightandwellness.
                > com. BUT note, advice that helps others may
                > hurt you."
                >
                > ME: [Or, handing out advice may hurt Klemp
                > more since he broke the Law of NonInterference
                > by printing this, unsolicited, health advice!
                > However, let's not forget that Klemp is directing
                > his H.I.s to risk their health by tuning into the
                > Radio EMF Waves and to the EMF that their
                > computers generate. They have to be careful
                > because it's obvious that they don't have HK's
                > (LEM/Mahanta) protection!]
                >
                > HK: "THEY are EXPERTS in their fields.
                > Helping people find better health is their
                > main concern." END of Part 1
                >
                > ME: I'd say that their "main concern" is
                > making money just as it is with Klemp!
                > And, the Dietician nor the Nutritionist
                > are Medical Doctors or have a Ph.D in
                > a health related field. I'm trying to figure
                > out why Klemp is claiming that "THEY
                > ARE EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELDS."
                > How's that work? Don't "they" just second
                > guess other so-called "experts" and
                > look at studies of a narrow and bias
                > focus with old information that supports
                > their philosophy. Hey! That's what Klemp
                > does! It's no wonder he relates to them
                > as he does!
                >
                > Below is the site Klemp was talking
                > about. What's interesting is reading
                > the bios of these people and looking
                > at their pictures! For being "experts
                > in their fields" most certainly don't
                > look like they've been walking the
                > walk! Very unhealthy looking! Hey!
                > Klemp doesn't walk the walk either!
                > Look at his health!
                >
                > http://www.weightandwellness.com/
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Hello All, I thought that this would be interesting for all to read and to comment on. My bracketed [ ] comments and caps are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 6, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello All,
                  I thought that this would be interesting
                  for all to read and to comment on.
                  My bracketed [ ] comments and caps
                  are added. BTW this is PART 1 of 2:

                  The H.I. Letter December 2009

                  HK: "Dear Brothers of the Leaf,
                  An ECK principle states that good
                  health is an aid to spiritual unfoldment."

                  ME: [I don't think that this is an "ECK
                  principle" per se. But, one does feel
                  more positive and happy about life
                  when they have good health. However,
                  isn't poor health (like cancer) seen
                  as a test of faith for the ECKist/religionist?]

                  HK: "With that in mind, let us consider
                  how to better our health, and thus enjoy
                  living in a more satisfying way.

                  A couple, ECK Higher Initiates, approached
                  me in a food store. The wife mentioned
                  a problem with constipation [oh sh_t!],
                  a common complaint that goes with
                  the graying of hair [like with the Klemps'].

                  I told her of a certain liquid magnesium.
                  It is ten to twelve times more effective
                  than the capsules she was using. And
                  later, I heard [her fart and] that it was
                  giving her relief.

                  Yet constipation told a deeper, more
                  fundamental condition, which was
                  related to nutrition.

                  As the ECK would have it, I met the
                  couple two weeks later."

                  ME: [They were stalking you, dummy!
                  Is Klemp the spokesperson for all New
                  Age methods and supplements such as
                  Laetrile? He suggested that his oldest
                  brother, Duane, go to Mexico for Laetrile
                  treatments for cancer. HK couldn't help
                  him anymore, then, than he can help chelas
                  now! Actually, many of HK's suggestions
                  and practices (avoidance of M.D.s and
                  of current, valid, and accepted medical
                  treatments) does more harm than good.]

                  HK: "So I recommended a local radio
                  program that addresses health issues.

                  The Usual Hosts are a NUTRITIONIST
                  and a DIETICIAN, both longtime practitioners
                  in their respective fields. And both are
                  dedicated to helping people overcome
                  ailments of all kinds."

                  ME: [Is Klemp naive or stupid to be
                  giving recommendations? As LEM/
                  Mahanta with ALL KNOWLEDGE
                  available to him... why doesn't he
                  have his own radio show? Why do
                  unpaid Vahanas have to do all the
                  work? He's getting paid for doing
                  what, all day long? Let's hear a
                  live conversation, views, and a
                  Q & A segment for non-ECKists!
                  Harry's just lazy and is not what
                  he claims to be. The proof is in the
                  pudding!]

                  HK: "More than 90 percent of ALL
                  health issues, THEY SAY, are due
                  to poor nutrition.

                  THEY STRONGLY discourage the
                  use of chocolate and coffee, for both
                  are linked to jumpy nerves, and even
                  to migraine headaches. The problem
                  is the Caffeine in them."

                  ME: [Yet, Klemp overlooks the fact
                  that DARK Chocolate is good for
                  heart health, and caffeine doesn't
                  affect all people the same. Besides,
                  there is always DEcaffeinated coffee!
                  Klemp has such a limited focus!]

                  HK: "Soft drinks, too, are FROWNED
                  upon,both for Caffeine as well as
                  Carbohydrates."

                  ME: [Well, limit drinking these to one
                  or two DIET (sugar free) Caffeine FREE
                  soft drinks per day! And, use a straw
                  to prevent staining your teeth!]

                  HK: "Divide the latter by four to find the
                  amount of sugar that the carbohydrates
                  convert to, in teaspoonfuls. For example,
                  a Drink or Processed Food with twenty-eight
                  grams of carbohydrates soon changes
                  during digestion, into seven teaspoons
                  of sugar, which may produce all kinds
                  of problems for young and old alike."

                  ME: [Klemp has become quite the expert,
                  by proxy, but should this stuff (health info
                  available to anyone on the internet) be
                  in the H.I. Letter? Most EKies will interpret
                  this to mean that Klemp (the LEM/Mahanta)
                  is "frowning upon" using soft drinks and
                  chocolate. I will have to say that about 30
                  years ago, while attending a Darji Potluck,
                  one EK Leader suggested that Chocolate
                  be banded from future potlucks. It seems
                  that Klemp is finally up-to-speed, for him.]

                  HK: "A LICENSED Nutritionist must go
                  through A More Thorough Training
                  Program than does a Dietician."

                  ME: [Yet, Klemp stated earlier that
                  the radio program he's recommending
                  is Co-hosted by a "Dietician!" Thus,
                  half of the comments and health advice
                  are being given by a less qualified person.
                  Klemp likes to have it both ways. Those
                  who are no longer mesmerized by him
                  can see beyond his double talk!]

                  HK: "Should you be looking for a nutritionist,
                  be sure that the individual is licensed."

                  ME: [Is being "licensed" a guarantee
                  that they really know what they are
                  talking about? No! Klemp's an idiot!]

                  HK: "I understand that in some places,
                  nearly anyone can claim to be a nutritionist."

                  ME: [And, nearly anyone can "claim to
                  be" a LEM/Mahanta!]

                  HK: "At a recent meeting of the ECKANKAR
                  Board of Trustees, we handled the business
                  first. Then they asked if I would speak to
                  them."

                  ME: [Hmmmm. Maybe they wanted to be
                  given some real "spiritual meat" for a "change"]

                  HK: "So the ECK lit up for me the topic of
                  nutrition, and its vital relationship with good
                  health."

                  ME: [The Board could have read about it
                  in this H.I. Letter article or tuned into the
                  radio program, except, Klemp now thinks
                  he's an expert (of sorts) and wants to tout
                  his newly found knowledge.]

                  HK: "A Board Member asked for more
                  information and the aforementioned radio
                  program.

                  I GENERALLY steer clear of recommending
                  doctors and the like, because you can usually
                  find a qualified practitioner right in the local
                  area. BUT this member lived far from a licensed
                  nutritionist,

                  ME: [Beyond Radio/Computer EMF waves?]

                  HK: so I passed along their company's
                  Internet address. It is www.weightandwellness.
                  com. BUT note, advice that helps others may
                  hurt you."

                  ME: [Or, handing out advice may hurt Klemp
                  more since he broke the Law of NonInterference
                  by printing this, unsolicited, health advice!
                  However, let's not forget that Klemp is directing
                  his H.I.s to risk their health by tuning into the
                  Radio EMF Waves and to the EMF that their
                  computers generate. They have to be careful
                  because it's obvious that they don't have HK's
                  (LEM/Mahanta) protection!]

                  HK: "THEY are EXPERTS in their fields.
                  Helping people find better health is their
                  main concern." END of Part 1

                  ME: I'd say that their "main concern" is
                  making money just as it is with Klemp!
                  And, the Dietician nor the Nutritionist
                  are Medical Doctors or have a Ph.D in
                  a health related field. I'm trying to figure
                  out why Klemp is claiming that "THEY
                  ARE EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELDS."
                  How's that work? Don't "they" just second
                  guess other so-called "experts" and
                  look at studies of a narrow and bias
                  focus with old information that supports
                  their philosophy. Hey! That's what Klemp
                  does! It's no wonder he relates to them
                  as he does!

                  Below is the site Klemp was talking
                  about. What's interesting is reading
                  the bios of these people and looking
                  at their pictures! For being "experts
                  in their fields" most certainly don't
                  look like they've been walking the
                  walk! Very unhealthy looking! Hey!
                  Klemp doesn't walk the walk either!
                  Look at his health!


                  http://www.weightandwellness.com/

                  Prometheus
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