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Re: HK: Attention! ECK Stories Needed... Desperately!

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Jonathan, I enjoyed reading your responses too and would like to comment on the three topics you listed below. jonathanjohns wrote: Nice commentary,
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 10 6:01 PM
      Hello Jonathan,
      I enjoyed reading your responses
      too and would like to comment on
      the three topics you listed below.

      jonathanjohns wrote:

      "Nice commentary, Prometheus.

      Regarding the submission of stories from
      HIs to Eckankar headquarters. My discussion
      will relate mostly to inner expereinces.

      Yes, the stories will be edited. And it probably
      won't be merely for clarity and length, but
      the "powers that be " at Eckankar will edit
      out anything that doesn't agree with Eckankar's
      present advertising campaign designed to
      bring new people into Eckankar. In other
      words, The Eckankar office in Chanhassen
      will edit out anything that is different than
      what is taught by Klemp in the present Eck
      literature and talks by Klemp.

      But more than that, any HI who has had "unusual"
      or "different" or "controversial" experiences already
      knows that you have to just keep your mouth
      shut, or at most tell only a trusted friend in Eckankar.
      Although, even that is risky because after all, that
      person might "inform on you" or at least that is
      the fear that a lot of members in Eckankar have."

      P- This is so true! If ECKists can't say anything
      nice (false), fake it, or follow the party line of what
      is expected. The RESA and other higher-ups, in the
      local Satsang Society, will remember the negative
      when one's name comes down from the ESA for
      approval for initiation. Anyone with any common
      sense or has contact with the local EK leadership
      learns the initiation survival techniques of Silence,
      Service and Surrender over the years. People must
      comply and conform in order to advance in Eckankar.

      "So Eckankar isn't a very indidvidual religion since
      if your inner experiences are different that the official
      Eckankar story line, you cant't tell anybody about them.
      Just ask Graham Forsyth. He had some very unusual
      experiences, and seeking help, he told two HIs who
      were unable to help him. Some of his experiences where
      eventually passed on to Klemp through Ford Johnson.
      Both Graham and Ford expected some help, but instead
      of receiving understanding and compassion Graham
      was slam-dunked by Klemp who took Graham's experiences
      personally as a direct affront to his (Klemp's) supreme
      power as the ruler of Eckankar."

      P- Yes! Klemp's knee-jerk reaction toward Graham
      lacked compassion and understanding. It was just
      a dream for God's sake! Yet, Graham got demoted
      to a 1st initiate! Talk about intimidation! Klemp
      made Graham into an example for all to see and
      to fear.

      "So anyone sending stories into Eckankar should be
      careful. I don't want to put a fear-based curse on any
      members of Eckankar, but if your experiences differ from
      the official Eckankar story line, they probably are not

      P- I was always careful as to what I put in my
      H.I.ROs because HK's goon squad (who reads
      them) will red flag certain comments. The repercussions
      of this (getting put into one's file) will show up
      as a longer wait-of-time between initiations, or
      No initiations will come At All until your initiations
      are "unfrozen" by your next RESA. I've seen Initiations
      being frozen on a 4th, 5th and a 6th initiate, although,
      this was done for various reasons involving a
      "lack of self-discipline!"

      "So for a religion that constantly preaches how much
      it is for the individual, it really doesn't work out that
      way. Sure it is individual, but only in your own mind
      since you can't share it with anyone.

      Now for my second topic. Originally, Eckankar (Paul
      and Darwin) taught that healing yourself was wrong!
      Specifically, they stated that using Sprit to heal
      yourself was wrong. I can remember in one of Darwin's
      tapes he tells a humorous story about his trip to the
      dentist. The dentist asks him "What do you do for a
      living?" Darwin relies "I am a healer." Of course, everyone
      in the Eck audience chuckled becasue thay saw the irony
      in a healer going to a health professonal to be healed.
      Darwin intended it to be funny. But Darwin goes onto
      explain "I can't direct Divine Spirit toward myself to heal
      myself because it is in violation of spiritual law." So this
      was the standard teaching on this subject by Darwin,
      and, I presume, Paul."

      P- PT & DG seemed to have a bassackwards/ass backwards
      approach to this. According to the current EK religious
      dogma IF one Heals others then there is Karma involved
      [next comes the disclaimer for "professionals"], but anyone
      hoping to be a 500 year old EK Master, like the fictitious
      RT, should be able to heal oneself! Too bad PT or DG didn't
      explain how RT could get away with it. Isn't that a part
      of learning Self-Mastery? Thus, this is why Klemp has
      to use New Age Healers/Health Care Practitioners versus
      using the ECK (Spirit). Klemp hasn't learned Self-Mastery

      "I think Klemp went along with this initially, so I was
      surprised when Klemp started saying that you could
      visualize light on various parts of your body to heal
      yourself. I said to myself "Wait a minute! Isn't that
      against the teachings of Eckankar!?" But it seems that
      since that event which was probably as much as ten
      years ago, Klemp has suggested more and more ways
      to heal yourself."

      P- This is true! HK said the "orange light" was for
      a Physical healing and the "blue light" was for a
      Mental healing. Now, it seems Klemp is talking
      about using Physical means versus Spiritual and
      tuning into radio shows like:
      www.weightandwellness.com or seeing "qualified
      practitioners" and "licensed nutritionists" for help.
      Once again, Klemp plays the role as Middleman!

      "Maybe I am exaggerating things, but this seems
      like one more example of contradictions in Eckankar.
      On the other hand, maybe I should give Klemp some
      credit for "changing" this because I think the original
      attitude by Paul and Darwin was flawed. I think that
      healing yourself is OK. Let's face it, everything is a
      manifestation of Spirit, so even if I just put a bandage
      on a cut, aren't I manipulating Spirit to help heal myself?
      Of course I am. Manipulating energy is just getting to
      things/problems at a more subtle energy level."

      P- Klemp is just a different kind of phony!

      "Not to mention that I knew several people in Eckankar
      who were "energy healers" for many, many years. I always
      wondered how these people continued as members of
      Eckankar, but I guess they decided on their own that
      energy healing was OK, and bravo to them for having
      the courage to do that. Anyway, Klemp is finally coming
      around to their way of thinking so they relaly have nothing
      to worry about now."

      P- I did practice Reiki at one time, as well as, some
      other forms of healing (free of charge), but stopped
      after I heard the EK warnings. I'm thinking that the
      warnings are mostly to scare off the competition,
      and because the LEM's don't know how to deal with
      It (ECK) coming from those "lower" than 14th initiates.
      The Top Dog Mahanta needs to remain King of the
      Hill. Thus, in Eckankar, no one is allowed to do healing
      except invisible (fake) EK Masters and the LEM/Mahanta.
      However, All Healings that the Invisible EK Masters
      and that Klemp claims are subjective and are done
      on the "Inner" and are of Less Value (or are less
      impressive) than what other believers, of other
      religions, experience!

      "Last topic. Regarding the discussion of positive health
      effects from doing the spiritual exercises of Eckankar, is
      Klemp stealing a page from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's book?
      Maharishi said that if "x" number of people would practice
      Transcendental Meditation daily, eventually the "Maharishi
      Effect" would kick in and bring world peace. Is Eckankar
      going to start promoting a similar idea? I'm suggesting this
      now because it just sounds kooky enough that Eckankar
      might start doing this."

      P- Yep! Been there (TM), done that, and bought the
      tee-shirt too! Klemp just rehashes, re-spins, repackages
      everything that PT & DG gave us... as well as his own
      crap too!

      BTW- I was reading "The Over-Soul" essay by
      Ralph Waldo Emerson and was reminded of
      some of the things (words, thoughts and concepts)
      that both Twitchell and Klemp have stolen from
      others and have portrayed as their own. I especially
      thought of PT's "Stranger by the River" and how
      easy it would be to paraphrase passages from
      Emerson's works in order to create "Stranger."


      prometheus wrote:
      > The following "Announcement" is displayed
      > in Eckankar's December 2009 H.I. Letter:
      > "Spotlight on High Initiates
      > You are invited to share your experience
      > as an ECK H.I. with your fellow Brothers
      > of the Leaf. Please send any of the following:
      > * Your personal experiences and insights
      > relating to the Mahanta, the ECK teachings,
      > and serving as an ECK H.I. [the Negative
      > too?]
      > * Photos of H.I.'s in ECK activities, especially
      > in action, sharing and enjoying ECK.
      > ["in action" means no poses with fake
      > smiles?]
      > * Poems that express your love for the
      > SUGMAD and the Mahanta, and being
      > a Co-worker in ECK. [When will HK
      > "share" his poems?]
      > Send submissions to: Eckankar, Att: The
      > H.I. Letter, PO Box 2000, Chanhassen, MN
      > 55317-2000 USA. Or e-mail them to
      > hil@... (Submissions may be
      > edited for clarity and length.) Thanks for
      > sharing!"
      > ******
      > That last disclaimer of "submissions may
      > be edited for clarity" is interesting since
      > H.I.s should already have mastered the
      > 4th Mental Plane and, thus, have "clarity"
      > of mind. LOL!
      > ******
      > Next, is an example of the kind of
      > delusional story, from a longtime H.I.,
      > that Klemp is looking for:
      > "Of Science and The Shariyat
      > I read an article in Scientific American
      > (May 2008) reporting that an individual's
      > genetic code may continuously change
      > after birth due to various environmental
      > influences. This got me thinking. This
      > discovery may open the door of science
      > to finding real biological transformations
      > To me, this all seems to correspond
      > to the 'rechemicalization' process mentioned
      > in The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book 1, p. 143.
      > So let's hear it for the Spiritual Excercises
      > of ECK. Hip-hip, hooray!" - Phil Dunn, FL.
      > [My CAPS were added to the above
      > "insights."]
      > Yes! Look at how the "Healing Effects
      > of Long-Term Practicing of Spiritual
      > Disciplines/Exercises" have helped
      > Klemp! When does the "Benjamin
      > Button" effect kick-in? LOL!
      > Below is the old (1970) PT Shariyat
      > quote that inspired this H.I.'s delayed
      > and delusional revelation concerning
      > Science [that one's genetic code may
      > be continuously changing] and the
      > ability to use this for healing via the
      > Spiritual Exercises. It has long been
      > known that too much stress can have
      > negative effects and that meditation
      > can alleviate stress. However, this H.I.
      > concludes that these changes in one's
      > genetic code could be affected, for healing
      > purposes, by using the "spiritual exercises."
      > He supports his conclusions by making
      > a correlation with this article of scientific
      > discovery and with Twitchell's karmic
      > "rechemicalization" theory. However, this
      > H.I. misinterprets Paul's PR warning/threat
      > that unless one follows the Living ECK Master
      > (LEM) they will build up an unbalanced
      > amount of "bad" karma.
      > Paul, basically, states that one should
      > Not be seeking "good" health effects
      > because this is karmic "attachment"
      > to the physical body. ECK is the "Middle
      > Path" and, thus, Detachment (from Lower
      > Plane effects) should be practiced in order
      > to reach "the gates of heaven." Thus, one's
      > Attention Should Not be on good or bad
      > (health and/or healing), nor on the positive
      > and negative effects of the physical body
      > or world.
      > "Burning off of karma is the state of
      > rechemicalization. It is something man
      > must go through while living on this earth.
      > Man should be able to do this under the
      > Living ECK Master. If he is under any other
      > guide here on earth, this is NOT likely to
      > happen. He will be receiving more bad
      > karma than good and will be overbalanced
      > on the negative side. He needs to be
      > balanced only in the middle way, not
      > on either side. Only when he can walk
      > the middle path of ECK can he leave
      > the Wheel of the Eighty-Four and find
      > the gates of heaven."
      > What's really interesting is that in
      > Klemp's front page article he uses
      > a lot of "BUTS" when giving advice
      > on healthy eating. Nowhere did
      > Klemp mention doing the "Spiritual
      > Exercises of ECK" for healing or for
      > health!
      > Plus, isn't it interesting that Klemp
      > didn't notice this H.I.'s misinterpretation
      > (or his own) of Twitchell's karmic
      > rechemicalization "Middle Path of
      > ECK" comments. When one looks at
      > Klemp's selling of Eckankar it seems
      > imbalanced. It's no wonder HK and
      > Company can't see the forest due to
      > the trees!
      > Prometheus
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