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Paul's Sister in Paris, Kentucky?

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  • etznab18
    Is there a record someplace on this site about when Paul T s sister att- ended college in Paris, Kentucky? I m looking for credible empirical evidence to
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 10, 2009
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      Is there a record someplace on this
      site about when Paul T's sister att-
      ended college in Paris, Kentucky?

      I'm looking for credible empirical
      evidence to supplement research for
      a post at alt.eckankar concerning
      reported history for Paul Twitchell
      and his early youth.

      Wanting to clarify dates for the
      "Paris" stories.

      Etznab
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Etznab, I m not sure as to when PT claimed his sister was in Paris (Kentucky) studying art with the masters. He was such a liar! But when one mixes some
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 10, 2009
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        Hello Etznab,
        I'm not sure as to when PT claimed
        his sister was in Paris (Kentucky)
        studying art with the masters. He
        was such a liar! But when one mixes
        some truth with a lie the lie sounds
        more convincing.

        However, since his sister was
        five years older than he (1908)
        that means she was born in
        1903 and would probably have
        been 20 years old when at school
        for Paul's "visit."

        Thus, this would make it 1923.
        The timeline of this visit, also,
        corresponds to the events given
        on page 48 of "Difficulties." After
        PT's visit with his sister in "Paris"
        he claims they both went to India
        with Sudar Singh. Paul states,
        "After I had left India, came home,
        I was then ABOUT sixteen."

        Of course Klemp claims that PT
        was "exaggerating" and "twisting
        facts" at age 27 (in 1935) to get
        into Who's Who in Kentucky, and
        had never been too far from home.

        Also, the only college in Paris,
        Kentucky, at the time, was Berea
        College which was established
        in 1855.

        Prometheus

        etznab wrote:
        >
        > Is there a record someplace on this
        > site about when Paul T's sister att-
        > ended college in Paris, Kentucky?
        >
        > I'm looking for credible empirical
        > evidence to supplement research for
        > a post at alt.eckankar concerning
        > reported history for Paul Twitchell
        > and his early youth.
        >
        > Wanting to clarify dates for the
        > "Paris" stories.
        >
        > Etznab
        >
      • etznab@aol.com
        Thanks Prometheus. Thought I saw something on here once about the college that Kay-Dee went to. Maybe not. The Who s Who article illustrates Paul T. was in
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 10, 2009
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          Thanks Prometheus.

          Thought I saw something on here once about the
          college that Kay-Dee went to. Maybe not.

          The Who's Who article illustrates Paul T. was in
          Paris Kentucky in 1929. I believe.

          Rich Smith indicated on A.R.E. recently the Who's
          Who article was all true. I think.

          "You know that _after_ Harold gave that talk, two
          Eckists went to Paducah KY and in the Library
          found people, documents, and records that showed
          that none of that Who's Who{which Paul didn't have
          anything to do with} was exaggerated or twisted. It
          was all true."

          http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/browse_thread/thread/356ce262ba47f2a1?hl=en#


          Why do you suppose Harold used the words ex-
          aggerated and twisted? Was Harold referring to
          a different Who's Who article written up by Paul?
          Or a carbon copy of something written by Paul?

          The section of the Who's Who article I have is just
          a bunch of places and dates.

          "Twitchell, John Paul, director municipal recreation;
          b. Paducah, Ky., Oca, 22, 1908; s. Jacob Noah and
          Effie Dorothy Twitchell; ed. Augusta Tilghman H. S.,
          grad. 1928; Physical dir. Y.M.C.A., Paducah, Ky.,
          1928-31; Paris Ky., 1929; track Coach, Tilghman H. S.,
          Paducah, 1929-30-31; athletic director Murray State
          Teachers Coll., 1931-33; Western State Teachers Coll.,
          Bowling Green, Ky., 1933-35; asst. director Ohio State
          Univ., fall of 1935; municipal recreation director, Paducah,
          since 1935. Contributor of articles to Athletic Journal.
          Office: Campbell Bldg. Mome[sic]: 1625 North Twelfth
          St., Paducah, Ky." [Based on: Who's Who in Kentucky,
          1927?]

          If that were all true then I wonder what Harold was re-
          ferring to? Maybe something else?

          Here is something from Doug Marman on the subject:

          "Paul apparently had a very productive career as an
          athletic director, right out of high school, on through
          college, and into his mid-twenties. This seems to be
          where Paul first developed his skills as a promoter
          and leader, since the files hold pages and pages of
          news stories about his efforts in those days. It appears
          that Paul was quite successful in this early career of
          his."

          http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_careers1.htm

          Pages and pages of news stories?

          I'm not sure what years those stories refer to. How
          much of the 1920's when Paul Twitchell was a teen-
          ager (if born between 1908-1910). However, if Paul
          had, in fact, gone to Paris, France and / or India as
          a teenager then wouldn't those pages and pages
          mention something about it? Even after the fact?

          Apparently, the Who's Who article does not speak
          about Paul Twitchell's high school years of 14-16
          years old (The early 20's). The quoted section has
          his date of graduation as 1928.

          I'm trying to find something that is undeniable about
          places and dates where Paul Twitchell resided as a
          teenager. Whether any evidence for a physical trip
          to France, or India.

          The official Eckankar Web site has a 1935 date for
          Paul Twitchell Meeting Sudar Singh (as early as). I
          think that was based on the pseudo 1922 D.O.B. for
          Paul Twitchell. I could be wrong.

          So far, I can see a Who's Who article which puts
          Paul in Paris, Kentucky in 1929. Apparently right
          after graduating High School.

          There should be a record for Kay-Dee's college att-
          endence and the dates. I'm going to try and find
          what I can about that.

          Etznab

          -----Original Message-----
          From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2009 8:55 pm
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Paul's Sister in Paris,
          Kentucky?

           
          Hello Etznab,
          I'm not sure as to when PT claimed
          his sister was in Paris (Kentucky)
          studying art with the masters. He
          was such a liar! But when one mixes
          some truth with a lie the lie sounds
          more convincing.

          However, since his sister was
          five years older than he (1908)
          that means she was born in
          1903 and would probably have
          been 20 years old when at school
          for Paul's "visit."

          Thus, this would make it 1923.
          The timeline of this visit, also,
          corresponds to the events given
          on page 48 of "Difficulties." After
          PT's visit with his sister in "Paris"
          he claims they both went to India
          with Sudar Singh. Paul states,
          "After I had left India, came home,
          I was then ABOUT sixteen."

          Of course Klemp claims that PT
          was "exaggerating" and "twisting
          facts" at age 27 (in 1935) to get
          into Who's Who in Kentucky, and
          had never been too far from home.

          Also, the only college in Paris,
          Kentucky, at the time, was Berea
          College which was established
          in 1855.

          Prometheus

          etznab wrote:
          >
          > Is there a record someplace on this
          > site about when Paul T's sister att-
          > ended college in Paris, Kentucky?
          >
          > I'm looking for credible empirical
          > evidence to supplement research for
          > a post at alt.eckankar concerning
          > reported history for Paul Twitchell
          > and his early youth.
          >
          > Wanting to clarify dates for the
          > "Paris" stories.
          >
          > Etznab
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Etznab, If you reread what Klemp stated on Eckankar.org you will see that HK says that Paul was 27 years old at the time of the Who s Who ploy. And,
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 11, 2009
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            Hello Etznab,
            If you reread what Klemp stated
            on Eckankar.org you will see that
            HK says that Paul was 27 years
            old at the time of the Who's Who
            ploy. And, Klemp gives PT's birthdate
            as Oct. 22, 1908 - thus, the year
            is 1935.

            BTW- Klemp (LEM/Mahanta) states,
            on Eckankar.org, that Paul was
            "exaggerating" and "twisting facts"
            to get into Who's Who in Kentucky.
            Therefore, Rich Smith is calling
            Klemp a liar, or at the least that
            he's misinformed. It looks to me
            like a case of battling narcissists!

            BTW- Klemp states that PT's submissions
            (to be placed into Who's Who in Kentucky)
            were exaggerated and that PT twisted
            facts in the letter submitted. There
            was no "article" per se.

            Also, if you look at the dates given
            in the Who's Who in Kentucky info
            that you listed you will see the 1935
            date. And, the dates given for PT to
            be in Paris, Kentucky show that he
            was 20 years old when he arrived (1928)
            and 23 when he left (1931). Kay-
            Dee was 5 years older that Paul so
            she was 25-28 during (1928-31).

            Thus, we see that Paul lied about
            being 15 years old when he visited
            Kay-Dee in "Paris" and that he was
            misleading people about this being
            Paris, Kentucky versus Paris, France.

            Also, these lies are connected to
            other more significant lies. Thus,
            he couldn't have traveled to India
            with his sister, and Sudar, to receive
            his Second Initiation when he was
            15. Therefore, his second visit to
            India in 1951 to be initiated by
            Rebazar for the 3-12th initiations
            didn't happen either. It's all a lie.

            As far as Marman's spin... Paul was
            less than successful and that's why
            he started to plagiarize (early on)
            and to lie and exaggerate more and
            more. Writing occasional articles for
            "Ripley's Believe It Or Not" is not being
            "successful" as a writer.

            No, the 1935 date (age 27) was based
            on PT's birth year of 1908. Klemp leaned
            toward this one year (versus 1922) and
            uses this year on the copyright page of
            the Combined Shariyats.

            BTW- There is no such thing as "undeniable
            proof" for some people when we're talking
            about the life and times of a liar, conman,
            and self-promoter like Twitchell. It's
            undeniable to me and probably to millions
            of others, but for some people there is
            never enough proof. St. Thomas comes
            to mind, but in PT's case that wouldn't
            help either. And, Gail was as much a Co-
            conspirator of the fraud as he was so
            her account wouldn't have any value
            either!

            Once again, PT was born in 1908!
            I just don't see why you are believing
            the 1922 lie! Just because he gave this
            date on his marriage license is no proof!
            Patti said that she and Gail used to laugh
            when Paul would get all huffy about being
            asked about his age or birthdate. That's
            because he had lied to Gail in order to
            make himself not seem as old as he was.
            There's a big difference between being
            born in 1908 and 1941. 1922 and 1941
            is a big gap too but was not as outlandish
            as Paul being 33 years her senior! Think
            about it!

            Prometheus

            etznab wrote:

            Thanks Prometheus.

            Thought I saw something on here once about the
            college that Kay-Dee went to. Maybe not.

            The Who's Who article illustrates Paul T. was in
            Paris Kentucky in 1929. I believe.

            Rich Smith indicated on A.R.E. recently the Who's
            Who article was all true. I think.

            "You know that _after_ Harold gave that talk, two
            Eckists went to Paducah KY and in the Library
            found people, documents, and records that showed
            that none of that Who's Who {which Paul didn't have
            anything to do with} was exaggerated or twisted. It
            was all true."

            http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/browse_thread/thread/356ce2\
            62ba47f2a1?hl=en#


            Why do you suppose Harold used the words ex-
            aggerated and twisted? Was Harold referring to
            a different Who's Who article written up by Paul?
            Or a carbon copy of something written by Paul?

            The section of the Who's Who article I have is just
            a bunch of places and dates.

            "Twitchell, John Paul, director municipal recreation;
            b. Paducah, Ky., Oca, 22, 1908; s. Jacob Noah and
            Effie Dorothy Twitchell; ed. Augusta Tilghman H. S.,
            grad. 1928; Physical dir. Y.M.C.A., Paducah, Ky.,
            1928-31; Paris Ky., 1929; track Coach, Tilghman H. S.,
            Paducah, 1929-30-31; athletic director Murray State
            Teachers Coll., 1931-33; Western State Teachers Coll.,
            Bowling Green, Ky., 1933-35; asst. director Ohio State
            Univ., fall of 1935; municipal recreation director, Paducah,
            since 1935. Contributor of articles to Athletic Journal.
            Office: Campbell Bldg. Mome[sic]: 1625 North Twelfth
            St., Paducah, Ky." [Based on: Who's Who in Kentucky,
            1927?]

            If that were all true then I wonder what Harold was re-
            ferring to? Maybe something else?

            Here is something from Doug Marman on the subject:

            "Paul apparently had a very productive career as an
            athletic director, right out of high school, on through
            college, and into his mid-twenties. This seems to be
            where Paul first developed his skills as a promoter
            and leader, since the files hold pages and pages of
            news stories about his efforts in those days. It appears
            that Paul was quite successful in this early career of
            his."

            http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_careers1.htm

            Pages and pages of news stories?

            I'm not sure what years those stories refer to. How
            much of the 1920's when Paul Twitchell was a teen-
            ager (if born between 1908-1910). However, if Paul
            had, in fact, gone to Paris, France and / or India as
            a teenager then wouldn't those pages and pages
            mention something about it? Even after the fact?

            Apparently, the Who's Who article does not speak
            about Paul Twitchell's high school years of 14-16
            years old (The early 20's). The quoted section has
            his date of graduation as 1928.

            I'm trying to find something that is undeniable about
            places and dates where Paul Twitchell resided as a
            teenager. Whether any evidence for a physical trip
            to France, or India.

            The official Eckankar Web site has a 1935 date for
            Paul Twitchell Meeting Sudar Singh (as early as). I
            think that was based on the pseudo 1922 D.O.B. for
            Paul Twitchell. I could be wrong.

            So far, I can see a Who's Who article which puts
            Paul in Paris, Kentucky in 1929. Apparently right
            after graduating High School.

            There should be a record for Kay-Dee's college att-
            endence and the dates. I'm going to try and find
            what I can about that.

            Etznab


            Prometheus wrote:

            Hello Etznab,
            I'm not sure as to when PT claimed
            his sister was in Paris (Kentucky)
            studying art with the masters. He
            was such a liar! But when one mixes
            some truth with a lie the lie sounds
            more convincing.

            However, since his sister was
            five years older than he (1908)
            that means she was born in
            1903 and would probably have
            been 20 years old when at school
            for Paul's "visit."

            Thus, this would make it 1923.
            The timeline of this visit, also,
            corresponds to the events given
            on page 48 of "Difficulties." After
            PT's visit with his sister in "Paris"
            he claims they both went to India
            with Sudar Singh. Paul states,
            "After I had left India, came home,
            I was then ABOUT sixteen."

            Of course Klemp claims that PT
            was "exaggerating" and "twisting
            facts" at age 27 (in 1935) to get
            into Who's Who in Kentucky, and
            had never been too far from home.

            Also, the only college in Paris,
            Kentucky, at the time, was Berea
            College which was established
            in 1855.

            Prometheus
          • etznab@aol.com
            Prometheus, I don t believe Paul Twitchell was born in 1922. Earlier I wrote: The official Eckankar Web site has a 1935 date for Paul Twitchell Meeting Sudar
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 11, 2009
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              Prometheus,

              I don't believe Paul Twitchell was born in 1922.

              Earlier I wrote:

              "The official Eckankar Web site has a 1935 date for
              Paul Twitchell Meeting Sudar Singh (as early as). I
              think that was based on the pseudo 1922 D.O.B. for
              Paul Twitchell. I could be wrong."

              I don't know what that 1935 date was based on and
              I was guessing the pseudo 1922 D.O.B.

              About what Gail knew. I don't know that Doug's new
              book clarifies what D.O.B. Paul put on his marriage
              certificate to her. Doug also seemed not to believe it
              that Paul Twitchell ever lied about his age.

              However, if Gail ever learned that Paul graduated his
              high school in the latter 20's or early 30's, she would
              sure as hell realize Paul wasn't born in 1922.

              Maybe Gail didn't know that though. I'm not so sure.
              Regardless, the only way Paul Twitchell could be a
              teenager in 1935 (reported visit with Sudar Singh) is
              if he was born in 1922. I believe the 1922 D.O.B. is
              not accurate.

              Now, of course (if you believe Doug) Paul Twitchell
              never "lied" about his birth date.

              I don't agree with Doug about that. I agree with David
              Lane that Paul DID lie about his birth date.

              My guess is Doug Marman's position today - according
              to what I read - is that he neither admits nor denies that
              Paul T. ever lied. That is, I think he wants to have it both
              ways. Either that, or this was just Paul Twitchell having
              fun.

              Etznab

              -----Original Message-----
              From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Fri, Dec 11, 2009 3:07 pm
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Paul's Sister in Paris,
              Kentucky?

               
              Hello Etznab,
              If you reread what Klemp stated
              on Eckankar.org you will see that
              HK says that Paul was 27 years
              old at the time of the Who's Who
              ploy. And, Klemp gives PT's birthdate
              as Oct. 22, 1908 - thus, the year
              is 1935.

              BTW- Klemp (LEM/Mahanta) states,
              on Eckankar.org, that Paul was
              "exaggerating" and "twisting facts"
              to get into Who's Who in Kentucky.
              Therefore, Rich Smith is calling
              Klemp a liar, or at the least that
              he's misinformed. It looks to me
              like a case of battling narcissists!

              BTW- Klemp states that PT's submissions
              (to be placed into Who's Who in Kentucky)
              were exaggerated and that PT twisted
              facts in the letter submitted. There
              was no "article" per se.

              Also, if you look at the dates given
              in the Who's Who in Kentucky info
              that you listed you will see the 1935
              date. And, the dates given for PT to
              be in Paris, Kentucky show that he
              was 20 years old when he arrived (1928)
              and 23 when he left (1931). Kay-
              Dee was 5 years older that Paul so
              she was 25-28 during (1928-31).

              Thus, we see that Paul lied about
              being 15 years old when he visited
              Kay-Dee in "Paris" and that he was
              misleading people about this being
              Paris, Kentucky versus Paris, France.

              Also, these lies are connected to
              other more significant lies. Thus,
              he couldn't have traveled to India
              with his sister, and Sudar, to receive
              his Second Initiation when he was
              15. Therefore, his second visit to
              India in 1951 to be initiated by
              Rebazar for the 3-12th initiations
              didn't happen either. It's all a lie.

              As far as Marman's spin... Paul was
              less than successful and that's why
              he started to plagiarize (early on)
              and to lie and exaggerate more and
              more. Writing occasional articles for
              "Ripley's Believe It Or Not" is not being
              "successful" as a writer.

              No, the 1935 date (age 27) was based
              on PT's birth year of 1908. Klemp leaned
              toward this one year (versus 1922) and
              uses this year on the copyright page of
              the Combined Shariyats.

              BTW- There is no such thing as "undeniable
              proof" for some people when we're talking
              about the life and times of a liar, conman,
              and self-promoter like Twitchell. It's
              undeniable to me and probably to millions
              of others, but for some people there is
              never enough proof. St. Thomas comes
              to mind, but in PT's case that wouldn't
              help either. And, Gail was as much a Co-
              conspirator of the fraud as he was so
              her account wouldn't have any value
              either!

              Once again, PT was born in 1908!
              I just don't see why you are believing
              the 1922 lie! Just because he gave this
              date on his marriage license is no proof!
              Patti said that she and Gail used to laugh
              when Paul would get all huffy about being
              asked about his age or birthdate. That's
              because he had lied to Gail in order to
              make himself not seem as old as he was.
              There's a big difference between being
              born in 1908 and 1941. 1922 and 1941
              is a big gap too but was not as outlandish
              as Paul being 33 years her senior! Think
              about it!

              Prometheus

              etznab wrote:

              Thanks Prometheus.

              Thought I saw something on here once about the
              college that Kay-Dee went to. Maybe not.

              The Who's Who article illustrates Paul T. was in
              Paris Kentucky in 1929. I believe.

              Rich Smith indicated on A.R.E. recently the Who's
              Who article was all true. I think.

              "You know that _after_ Harold gave that talk, two
              Eckists went to Paducah KY and in the Library
              found people, documents, and records that showed
              that none of that Who's Who {which Paul didn't have
              anything to do with} was exaggerated or twisted. It
              was all true."

              http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.eckankar/browse_thread/thread/356ce2\
              62ba47f2a1?hl=en#

              Why do you suppose Harold used the words ex-
              aggerated and twisted? Was Harold referring to
              a different Who's Who article written up by Paul?
              Or a carbon copy of something written by Paul?

              The section of the Who's Who article I have is just
              a bunch of places and dates.

              "Twitchell, John Paul, director municipal recreation;
              b. Paducah, Ky., Oca, 22, 1908; s. Jacob Noah and
              Effie Dorothy Twitchell; ed. Augusta Tilghman H. S.,
              grad. 1928; Physical dir. Y.M.C.A., Paducah, Ky.,
              1928-31; Paris Ky., 1929; track Coach, Tilghman H. S.,
              Paducah, 1929-30-31; athletic director Murray State
              Teachers Coll., 1931-33; Western State Teachers Coll.,
              Bowling Green, Ky., 1933-35; asst. director Ohio State
              Univ., fall of 1935; municipal recreation director, Paducah,
              since 1935. Contributor of articles to Athletic Journal.
              Office: Campbell Bldg. Mome[sic]: 1625 North Twelfth
              St., Paducah, Ky." [Based on: Who's Who in Kentucky,
              1927?]

              If that were all true then I wonder what Harold was re-
              ferring to? Maybe something else?

              Here is something from Doug Marman on the subject:

              "Paul apparently had a very productive career as an
              athletic director, right out of high school, on through
              college, and into his mid-twenties. This seems to be
              where Paul first developed his skills as a promoter
              and leader, since the files hold pages and pages of
              news stories about his efforts in those days. It appears
              that Paul was quite successful in this early career of
              his."

              http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_careers1.htm

              Pages and pages of news stories?

              I'm not sure what years those stories refer to. How
              much of the 1920's when Paul Twitchell was a teen-
              ager (if born between 1908-1910). However, if Paul
              had, in fact, gone to Paris, France and / or India as
              a teenager then wouldn't those pages and pages
              mention something about it? Even after the fact?

              Apparently, the Who's Who article does not speak
              about Paul Twitchell's high school years of 14-16
              years old (The early 20's). The quoted section has
              his date of graduation as 1928.

              I'm trying to find something that is undeniable about
              places and dates where Paul Twitchell resided as a
              teenager. Whether any evidence for a physical trip
              to France, or India.

              The official Eckankar Web site has a 1935 date for
              Paul Twitchell Meeting Sudar Singh (as early as). I
              think that was based on the pseudo 1922 D.O.B. for
              Paul Twitchell. I could be wrong.

              So far, I can see a Who's Who article which puts
              Paul in Paris, Kentucky in 1929. Apparently right
              after graduating High School.

              There should be a record for Kay-Dee's college att-
              endence and the dates. I'm going to try and find
              what I can about that.

              Etznab

              Prometheus wrote:

              Hello Etznab,
              I'm not sure as to when PT claimed
              his sister was in Paris (Kentucky)
              studying art with the masters. He
              was such a liar! But when one mixes
              some truth with a lie the lie sounds
              more convincing.

              However, since his sister was
              five years older than he (1908)
              that means she was born in
              1903 and would probably have
              been 20 years old when at school
              for Paul's "visit."

              Thus, this would make it 1923.
              The timeline of this visit, also,
              corresponds to the events given
              on page 48 of "Difficulties." After
              PT's visit with his sister in "Paris"
              he claims they both went to India
              with Sudar Singh. Paul states,
              "After I had left India, came home,
              I was then ABOUT sixteen."

              Of course Klemp claims that PT
              was "exaggerating" and "twisting
              facts" at age 27 (in 1935) to get
              into Who's Who in Kentucky, and
              had never been too far from home.

              Also, the only college in Paris,
              Kentucky, at the time, was Berea
              College which was established
              in 1855.

              Prometheus
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