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Re: HK: Attention! ECK Stories Needed... Desperately!

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  • jonathanjohns96
    Nice commentary, Prometheus. Regarding the submission of stories from HIs to Eckankar headquarters. My discussion will relate mostly to inner expereinces. Yes,
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 6, 2009
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      Nice commentary, Prometheus.

      Regarding the submission of stories from HIs to Eckankar headquarters. My discussion will relate mostly to inner expereinces.

      Yes, the stories will be edited. And it probably won't be merely for clarity and length, but the "powers that be " at Eckankar will edit out anything that doesn't agree with Eckankar's present advertizing campaign designed to bring new people into Eckankar. In other words, The Eckankar office in Chanhassen will edit out anything that is different than what is taught by Klemp in the present Eck literature and talks by Klemp.

      But more than that, any HI who has had "unusual" or "different" or "controversial" experiences already knows that you have to just keep your mouth shut, or at most tell only a trusted friend in Eckankar. Although, even that is risky because after all, that person might "inform on you" or at least that is the fear that a lot of members in Eckankar have.

      So Eckankar isn't a very indidvidual religion since if your inner experiences are different that the official Eckankar story line, you cant't tell anybody about them. Just ask Graham Forsyth. He had some very unusual experiences, and seeking help, he told two HIs who were unable to help him. Some of his experiences where eventually passed on to Klemp through Ford Johnson. Both Graham and Ford expected some help, but instead of receiving understanding and compassion Graham was slam-dunked by Klemp who took Graham's experiences personally as a direct affront to his (Klemp's) supreme power as the ruler of Eckankar.

      So anyone sending stories into Eckankar should be careful. I don't want to put a fear-based curse on any members of Eckankar, but if your experiences differ from the official Eckankar story line, they probably are not welcome.

      So for a religion that constantly preaches how much it is for the individual, it really doesn't work out that way. Sure it is individual, but only in your own mind since you can't share it with anyone.


      Now for my second topic. Originally, Eckankar (Paul and Darwin) taught that healing yourself was wrong! Specifically, they stated that using Sprit to heal yourself was wrong. I can remember in one of Darwin's tapes he tells a humorous story about his trip to the dentist. The dentist asks him "Whay do you do for a living?" Darwin relies "I am a healer." Of course, everyone in the Eck audience chuckled becasue thay saw the irony in a healer going to a health professonal to be healed. Darwin intended it to be funny. But Darwin goes onto explain "I can't direct Divine Spirit toward myself to heal myself because it is in violation of spiritual law." So this was the standard teaching on this subject by Darwin, and, I presume, Paul.

      I think Klemp went along with this initially, so I was surprised when Klemp started saying that you could visualize light on various parts of your body to heal yourself. I said to myself "Wait a minute! Isn't that against the teachings of Eckankar!?" But it seems that since that event which was probably as much as ten years ago, Klemp has suggested more and more ways to heal yourself.

      Maybe I am exaggerating things, but this seems like one more example of contardictions in Eckankar. On the other hand, maybe I should give Klemp some credit for "changing" this because I think the original attitude by Paul and Darwin was flawed. I think that healing yourself is OK. Let's face it, everything is a manifrestation of Spirit, so even if I just put a bandage on a cut, aren't I manipulating Spirit to help heal myself? Of course I am. Manipulating energy is just getting to things/problems at a more subtle energy level.

      Not to mention that I knew several people in Eckankar who were "energy healers" for mamy, many years. I always wondered how these people continued as members of Eckankar, but I guess they decided on their own that energy healing was OK, and bravo to them for having the courage to do that. Anyway, Klemp is finally coming around to their way of thinking so they relaly have nothing to worry about now.

      Last topic. Regarding the discussion of positive health effects from doing the spritual exercises of Eckankar, is Klemp stealing a page from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's book? Maharishi said that if "x" number of people would practice Transcendental Meditation daily, eventually the "Maharishi Effect" would kick in and bring world peace. Is Eckankar going to start promoting a similar idea? I'm suggesting this now because it just sounds kooky enough that Eckankar might start doing this.


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > The following "Announcement" is displayed
      > in Eckankar's December 2009 H.I. Letter:
      >
      > "Spotlight on High Initiates
      >
      > You are invited to share your experience
      > as an ECK H.I. with your fellow Brothers
      > of the Leaf. Please send any of the following:
      >
      > * Your personal experiences and insights
      > relating to the Mahanta, the ECK teachings,
      > and serving as an ECK H.I. [the Negative
      > too?]
      >
      > * Photos of H.I.'s in ECK activities, especially
      > in action, sharing and enjoying ECK.
      > ["in action" means no poses with fake
      > smiles?]
      >
      > * Poems that express your love for the
      > SUGMAD and the Mahanta, and being
      > a Co-worker in ECK. [When will HK
      > "share" his poems?]
      >
      > Send submissions to: Eckankar, Att: The
      > H.I. Letter, PO Box 2000, Chanhassen, MN
      > 55317-2000 USA. Or e-mail them to
      > hil@... (Submissions may be
      > edited for clarity and length.) Thanks for
      > sharing!"
      >
      > ******
      > That last disclaimer of "submissions may
      > be edited for clarity" is interesting since
      > H.I.s should already have mastered the
      > 4th Mental Plane and, thus, have "clarity"
      > of mind. LOL!
      > ******
      >
      > Next, is an example of the kind of
      > delusional story, from a longtime H.I.,
      > that Klemp is looking for:
      >
      > "Of Science and The Shariyat
      >
      > I read an article in Scientific American
      > (May 2008) reporting that an individual's
      > genetic code may continuously change
      > after birth due to various environmental
      > influences. This got me thinking. This
      > discovery may open the door of science
      > to finding real biological transformations
      > and HEALING EFFECTS of LONG-TERM
      > PRACTICING OF SPIRITUAL DISCIPLINES.
      > To me, this all seems to correspond
      > to the 'rechemicalization' process mentioned
      > in The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book 1, p. 143.
      > So let's hear it for the Spiritual Excercises
      > of ECK. Hip-hip, hooray!" - Phil Dunn, FL.
      >
      > [My CAPS were added to the above
      > "insights."]
      >
      > Yes! Look at how the "Healing Effects
      > of Long-Term Practicing of Spiritual
      > Disciplines/Exercises" have helped
      > Klemp! When does the "Benjamin
      > Button" effect kick-in? LOL!
      >
      > Below is the old (1970) PT Shariyat
      > quote that inspired this H.I.'s delayed
      > and delusional revelation concerning
      > Science [that one's genetic code may
      > be continuously changing] and the
      > ability to use this for healing via the
      > Spiritual Exercises. It has long been
      > known that too much stress can have
      > negative effects and that meditation
      > can alleviate stress. However, this H.I.
      > concludes that these changes in one's
      > genetic code could be affected, for healing
      > purposes, by using the "spiritual exercises."
      >
      > He supports his conclusions by making
      > a correlation with this article of scientific
      > discovery and with Twitchell's karmic
      > "rechemicalization" theory. However, this
      > H.I. misinterprets Paul's PR warning/threat
      > that unless one follows the Living ECK Master
      > (LEM) they will build up an unbalanced
      > amount of "bad" karma.
      >
      > Paul, basically, states that one should
      > Not be seeking "good" health effects
      > because this is karmic "attachment"
      > to the physical body. ECK is the "Middle
      > Path" and, thus, Detachment (from Lower
      > Plane effects) should be practiced in order
      > to reach "the gates of heaven." Thus, one's
      > Attention Should Not be on good or bad
      > (health and/or healing), nor on the positive
      > and negative effects of the physical body
      > or world.
      >
      > "Burning off of karma is the state of
      > rechemicalization. It is something man
      > must go through while living on this earth.
      > Man should be able to do this under the
      > Living ECK Master. If he is under any other
      > guide here on earth, this is NOT likely to
      > happen. He will be receiving more bad
      > karma than good and will be overbalanced
      > on the negative side. He needs to be
      > balanced only in the middle way, not
      > on either side. Only when he can walk
      > the middle path of ECK can he leave
      > the Wheel of the Eighty-Four and find
      > the gates of heaven."
      >
      > What's really interesting is that in
      > Klemp's front page article he uses
      > a lot of "BUTS" when giving advice
      > on healthy eating. Nowhere did
      > Klemp mention doing the "Spiritual
      > Exercises of ECK" for healing or for
      > health!
      >
      > Plus, isn't it interesting that Klemp
      > didn't notice this H.I.'s misinterpretation
      > (or his own) of Twitchell's karmic
      > rechemicalization "Middle Path of
      > ECK" comments. When one looks at
      > Klemp's selling of Eckankar it seems
      > imbalanced. It's no wonder HK and
      > Company can't see the forest due to
      > the trees!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Jonathan, I enjoyed reading your responses too and would like to comment on the three topics you listed below. jonathanjohns wrote: Nice commentary,
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 10, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Jonathan,
        I enjoyed reading your responses
        too and would like to comment on
        the three topics you listed below.

        jonathanjohns wrote:

        "Nice commentary, Prometheus.

        Regarding the submission of stories from
        HIs to Eckankar headquarters. My discussion
        will relate mostly to inner expereinces.

        Yes, the stories will be edited. And it probably
        won't be merely for clarity and length, but
        the "powers that be " at Eckankar will edit
        out anything that doesn't agree with Eckankar's
        present advertising campaign designed to
        bring new people into Eckankar. In other
        words, The Eckankar office in Chanhassen
        will edit out anything that is different than
        what is taught by Klemp in the present Eck
        literature and talks by Klemp.

        But more than that, any HI who has had "unusual"
        or "different" or "controversial" experiences already
        knows that you have to just keep your mouth
        shut, or at most tell only a trusted friend in Eckankar.
        Although, even that is risky because after all, that
        person might "inform on you" or at least that is
        the fear that a lot of members in Eckankar have."



        P- This is so true! If ECKists can't say anything
        nice (false), fake it, or follow the party line of what
        is expected. The RESA and other higher-ups, in the
        local Satsang Society, will remember the negative
        when one's name comes down from the ESA for
        approval for initiation. Anyone with any common
        sense or has contact with the local EK leadership
        learns the initiation survival techniques of Silence,
        Service and Surrender over the years. People must
        comply and conform in order to advance in Eckankar.



        "So Eckankar isn't a very indidvidual religion since
        if your inner experiences are different that the official
        Eckankar story line, you cant't tell anybody about them.
        Just ask Graham Forsyth. He had some very unusual
        experiences, and seeking help, he told two HIs who
        were unable to help him. Some of his experiences where
        eventually passed on to Klemp through Ford Johnson.
        Both Graham and Ford expected some help, but instead
        of receiving understanding and compassion Graham
        was slam-dunked by Klemp who took Graham's experiences
        personally as a direct affront to his (Klemp's) supreme
        power as the ruler of Eckankar."



        P- Yes! Klemp's knee-jerk reaction toward Graham
        lacked compassion and understanding. It was just
        a dream for God's sake! Yet, Graham got demoted
        to a 1st initiate! Talk about intimidation! Klemp
        made Graham into an example for all to see and
        to fear.



        "So anyone sending stories into Eckankar should be
        careful. I don't want to put a fear-based curse on any
        members of Eckankar, but if your experiences differ from
        the official Eckankar story line, they probably are not
        welcome."



        P- I was always careful as to what I put in my
        H.I.ROs because HK's goon squad (who reads
        them) will red flag certain comments. The repercussions
        of this (getting put into one's file) will show up
        as a longer wait-of-time between initiations, or
        No initiations will come At All until your initiations
        are "unfrozen" by your next RESA. I've seen Initiations
        being frozen on a 4th, 5th and a 6th initiate, although,
        this was done for various reasons involving a
        "lack of self-discipline!"



        "So for a religion that constantly preaches how much
        it is for the individual, it really doesn't work out that
        way. Sure it is individual, but only in your own mind
        since you can't share it with anyone.


        Now for my second topic. Originally, Eckankar (Paul
        and Darwin) taught that healing yourself was wrong!
        Specifically, they stated that using Sprit to heal
        yourself was wrong. I can remember in one of Darwin's
        tapes he tells a humorous story about his trip to the
        dentist. The dentist asks him "What do you do for a
        living?" Darwin relies "I am a healer." Of course, everyone
        in the Eck audience chuckled becasue thay saw the irony
        in a healer going to a health professonal to be healed.
        Darwin intended it to be funny. But Darwin goes onto
        explain "I can't direct Divine Spirit toward myself to heal
        myself because it is in violation of spiritual law." So this
        was the standard teaching on this subject by Darwin,
        and, I presume, Paul."



        P- PT & DG seemed to have a bassackwards/ass backwards
        approach to this. According to the current EK religious
        dogma IF one Heals others then there is Karma involved
        [next comes the disclaimer for "professionals"], but anyone
        hoping to be a 500 year old EK Master, like the fictitious
        RT, should be able to heal oneself! Too bad PT or DG didn't
        explain how RT could get away with it. Isn't that a part
        of learning Self-Mastery? Thus, this is why Klemp has
        to use New Age Healers/Health Care Practitioners versus
        using the ECK (Spirit). Klemp hasn't learned Self-Mastery
        himself!



        "I think Klemp went along with this initially, so I was
        surprised when Klemp started saying that you could
        visualize light on various parts of your body to heal
        yourself. I said to myself "Wait a minute! Isn't that
        against the teachings of Eckankar!?" But it seems that
        since that event which was probably as much as ten
        years ago, Klemp has suggested more and more ways
        to heal yourself."



        P- This is true! HK said the "orange light" was for
        a Physical healing and the "blue light" was for a
        Mental healing. Now, it seems Klemp is talking
        about using Physical means versus Spiritual and
        tuning into radio shows like:
        www.weightandwellness.com or seeing "qualified
        practitioners" and "licensed nutritionists" for help.
        Once again, Klemp plays the role as Middleman!



        "Maybe I am exaggerating things, but this seems
        like one more example of contradictions in Eckankar.
        On the other hand, maybe I should give Klemp some
        credit for "changing" this because I think the original
        attitude by Paul and Darwin was flawed. I think that
        healing yourself is OK. Let's face it, everything is a
        manifestation of Spirit, so even if I just put a bandage
        on a cut, aren't I manipulating Spirit to help heal myself?
        Of course I am. Manipulating energy is just getting to
        things/problems at a more subtle energy level."



        P- Klemp is just a different kind of phony!


        "Not to mention that I knew several people in Eckankar
        who were "energy healers" for many, many years. I always
        wondered how these people continued as members of
        Eckankar, but I guess they decided on their own that
        energy healing was OK, and bravo to them for having
        the courage to do that. Anyway, Klemp is finally coming
        around to their way of thinking so they relaly have nothing
        to worry about now."


        P- I did practice Reiki at one time, as well as, some
        other forms of healing (free of charge), but stopped
        after I heard the EK warnings. I'm thinking that the
        warnings are mostly to scare off the competition,
        and because the LEM's don't know how to deal with
        It (ECK) coming from those "lower" than 14th initiates.
        The Top Dog Mahanta needs to remain King of the
        Hill. Thus, in Eckankar, no one is allowed to do healing
        except invisible (fake) EK Masters and the LEM/Mahanta.
        However, All Healings that the Invisible EK Masters
        and that Klemp claims are subjective and are done
        on the "Inner" and are of Less Value (or are less
        impressive) than what other believers, of other
        religions, experience!


        "Last topic. Regarding the discussion of positive health
        effects from doing the spiritual exercises of Eckankar, is
        Klemp stealing a page from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's book?
        Maharishi said that if "x" number of people would practice
        Transcendental Meditation daily, eventually the "Maharishi
        Effect" would kick in and bring world peace. Is Eckankar
        going to start promoting a similar idea? I'm suggesting this
        now because it just sounds kooky enough that Eckankar
        might start doing this."


        P- Yep! Been there (TM), done that, and bought the
        tee-shirt too! Klemp just rehashes, re-spins, repackages
        everything that PT & DG gave us... as well as his own
        crap too!

        BTW- I was reading "The Over-Soul" essay by
        Ralph Waldo Emerson and was reminded of
        some of the things (words, thoughts and concepts)
        that both Twitchell and Klemp have stolen from
        others and have portrayed as their own. I especially
        thought of PT's "Stranger by the River" and how
        easy it would be to paraphrase passages from
        Emerson's works in order to create "Stranger."

        Prometheus




        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > The following "Announcement" is displayed
        > in Eckankar's December 2009 H.I. Letter:
        >
        > "Spotlight on High Initiates
        >
        > You are invited to share your experience
        > as an ECK H.I. with your fellow Brothers
        > of the Leaf. Please send any of the following:
        >
        > * Your personal experiences and insights
        > relating to the Mahanta, the ECK teachings,
        > and serving as an ECK H.I. [the Negative
        > too?]
        >
        > * Photos of H.I.'s in ECK activities, especially
        > in action, sharing and enjoying ECK.
        > ["in action" means no poses with fake
        > smiles?]
        >
        > * Poems that express your love for the
        > SUGMAD and the Mahanta, and being
        > a Co-worker in ECK. [When will HK
        > "share" his poems?]
        >
        > Send submissions to: Eckankar, Att: The
        > H.I. Letter, PO Box 2000, Chanhassen, MN
        > 55317-2000 USA. Or e-mail them to
        > hil@... (Submissions may be
        > edited for clarity and length.) Thanks for
        > sharing!"
        >
        > ******
        > That last disclaimer of "submissions may
        > be edited for clarity" is interesting since
        > H.I.s should already have mastered the
        > 4th Mental Plane and, thus, have "clarity"
        > of mind. LOL!
        > ******
        >
        > Next, is an example of the kind of
        > delusional story, from a longtime H.I.,
        > that Klemp is looking for:
        >
        > "Of Science and The Shariyat
        >
        > I read an article in Scientific American
        > (May 2008) reporting that an individual's
        > genetic code may continuously change
        > after birth due to various environmental
        > influences. This got me thinking. This
        > discovery may open the door of science
        > to finding real biological transformations
        > and HEALING EFFECTS of LONG-TERM
        > PRACTICING OF SPIRITUAL DISCIPLINES.
        > To me, this all seems to correspond
        > to the 'rechemicalization' process mentioned
        > in The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book 1, p. 143.
        > So let's hear it for the Spiritual Excercises
        > of ECK. Hip-hip, hooray!" - Phil Dunn, FL.
        >
        > [My CAPS were added to the above
        > "insights."]
        >
        > Yes! Look at how the "Healing Effects
        > of Long-Term Practicing of Spiritual
        > Disciplines/Exercises" have helped
        > Klemp! When does the "Benjamin
        > Button" effect kick-in? LOL!
        >
        > Below is the old (1970) PT Shariyat
        > quote that inspired this H.I.'s delayed
        > and delusional revelation concerning
        > Science [that one's genetic code may
        > be continuously changing] and the
        > ability to use this for healing via the
        > Spiritual Exercises. It has long been
        > known that too much stress can have
        > negative effects and that meditation
        > can alleviate stress. However, this H.I.
        > concludes that these changes in one's
        > genetic code could be affected, for healing
        > purposes, by using the "spiritual exercises."
        >
        > He supports his conclusions by making
        > a correlation with this article of scientific
        > discovery and with Twitchell's karmic
        > "rechemicalization" theory. However, this
        > H.I. misinterprets Paul's PR warning/threat
        > that unless one follows the Living ECK Master
        > (LEM) they will build up an unbalanced
        > amount of "bad" karma.
        >
        > Paul, basically, states that one should
        > Not be seeking "good" health effects
        > because this is karmic "attachment"
        > to the physical body. ECK is the "Middle
        > Path" and, thus, Detachment (from Lower
        > Plane effects) should be practiced in order
        > to reach "the gates of heaven." Thus, one's
        > Attention Should Not be on good or bad
        > (health and/or healing), nor on the positive
        > and negative effects of the physical body
        > or world.
        >
        > "Burning off of karma is the state of
        > rechemicalization. It is something man
        > must go through while living on this earth.
        > Man should be able to do this under the
        > Living ECK Master. If he is under any other
        > guide here on earth, this is NOT likely to
        > happen. He will be receiving more bad
        > karma than good and will be overbalanced
        > on the negative side. He needs to be
        > balanced only in the middle way, not
        > on either side. Only when he can walk
        > the middle path of ECK can he leave
        > the Wheel of the Eighty-Four and find
        > the gates of heaven."
        >
        > What's really interesting is that in
        > Klemp's front page article he uses
        > a lot of "BUTS" when giving advice
        > on healthy eating. Nowhere did
        > Klemp mention doing the "Spiritual
        > Exercises of ECK" for healing or for
        > health!
        >
        > Plus, isn't it interesting that Klemp
        > didn't notice this H.I.'s misinterpretation
        > (or his own) of Twitchell's karmic
        > rechemicalization "Middle Path of
        > ECK" comments. When one looks at
        > Klemp's selling of Eckankar it seems
        > imbalanced. It's no wonder HK and
        > Company can't see the forest due to
        > the trees!
        >
        > Prometheus
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