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Native American "drumming circles" at major EK seminars?

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  • prometheus_973
    This is a crosspost from Eckankartruth. Hello Jonathan and All, The drumming circle or session was an unofficial activity that some of us were planning after
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 2, 2009
      This is a crosspost from Eckankartruth.

      Hello Jonathan and All,
      The drumming circle or session
      was an "unofficial" activity that
      some of us were planning after
      the evening seminar program.
      Sometimes I would be with EK
      musicians when they would
      get together for jams as well.
      Since there were no Shamans
      conducting the drumming
      circle we thought it would be
      okay. After all, it wasn't to be
      like a "worship service" nor
      was it involving the Astral, or
      Animism. And, any communication
      with the "Great Spirit" would have
      been seen as the ECK (Spirit).
      'A rose is still a rose by any
      other name.' It wasn't negative
      it was positive, although, one
      could argue that the "positive"
      is still lower plane and tied into
      karma or "tests" and are, therefore,
      still a form of KAL. That's the
      ECK think of it all... right!

      Anyway, it just goes to show how
      religions like to control their followers
      via rules, laws, guidelines, guilt,
      and fear. Eckankar has the RESA
      Hierarchy (Police) to keep everyone
      on their "track."

      Here's a quote from the Shariyat 2,
      Chapter 12, involving the Fourth

      "The evolution of the intelligence
      that is the Fourth Circle, the Mental
      Plane, is the gradual rising out of
      the psychic reality. This illusionary
      world is typified in the Indian philosophy
      by the word maya which means
      illusion. In the Buddhist philosophy
      it is known as mara, and in Christianity
      as SATAN, or the DEVIL. It is known
      in the works of ECK as KAL NIRANJAN,
      king of the lower worlds."

      And, in Klemps "Autobiography of a
      Modern Prophet," on page 385, he states:

      "In general, major religions locate
      their heaven on the Mental Plane,
      the so-called Fourth World. These
      include Christianity, the Jewish religion,
      Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism."

      It's interesting that Twitchell designed
      Eckankar around Fourth (Mental) Plane
      religions/philosophies like Ruhani Satsang,
      Theosophy, etc. and that Klemp has
      given Eckankar his own Mental Plane
      Christian (Lutheran) twist when both
      PT and HK have stated that these Mental
      Plane religions are controlled by KAL,
      i.e. Satan or the Devil.


      jonathanjohns wrote:

      This question in the title of this thread
      was actually put forward by Prometheus
      in another thread, but I thought that I
      would start a new thread:


      Prometheus said:

      "BTW- Did they ever have a Native-
      American "drumming" session at
      a major ECK seminar? A group of
      us (once) got an empty room and
      were supposed to have had one
      because I was going to bring over
      one of my Celtic drums. But, I seem
      to remember that it got cancelled
      because a higher-up at the ESC
      got wind of it and thought it was

      Me: No, I never saw Native American
      "drumming" session at a major seminar.

      Regarding your statement about why
      your drumming session was canceled.
      I tend to agree with your explanation
      that a higher-up heard about it, and
      probably because somebody complained
      to them. You didn't ask, but since I find
      this to be an interesting subject I spent
      a lot of time thinking about why "Eckankar"
      would consider a drumming session to
      be inappropriate. I thought up two possible

      1. I feel that drumming by a group of
      people induces a trance-like state which
      is something similar to the trance-like
      state induced when people sing HU in
      a group. I think that both are a type of
      spiritual experience. So "Eckankar" could
      perceive a drumming circle as something
      which could compete for the attention
      of Eckists (against the HU). What if a group
      of Eckists decided that they liked drumming
      together better than singing the HU together?
      Eckankar couldn't allow that to happen.

      2. A lot of people consider Native American
      religions to be synonymous with witchcraft
      or black magic. It was almost a year ago that
      I mentioned the African-American lady (not
      an Eckist) who told me that Native American
      religions which believe that trees and animals
      have spirits were, in fact, black magic. So
      if the higher-up who canceled the drumming
      session had conscious or unconscious
      thinking along these lines, then they would
      obviously think that " Native American group
      drumming," was inappropriate at an Eck seminar.

      3. Or perhaps it is as simple as "Native American
      drumming is part of Native American religions;
      therefore, we (Eckankar) shouldn't be incorporating
      it into Eckankar." Of course, never mind the fact
      that the HU was taken from the Sufis, and the
      actual teachings of Eckankar came straight from

      By the way, I know that there are Eckists who
      do drumming on their own. Or they use feathers
      or crystals for healing on their own. But as of
      2008, my last year in Eckanakar, they were very
      fanatical about keeping anything like this out
      of Eckankar. Eckankar says they do this in order
      to keep the teachings of Eckankar pure, and they
      certainly have a right to do that. But getting back
      to the drumming, maybe Eckankar considers
      group drumming to be akin to somebody bringing
      a healing crystal into a worship service and telling
      everybody about it. Any higher-up hearing about
      that crystal would go ballistic. Most religions change
      over time, they incorporate new things as they
      go along, but Eckankar seems to be very static.
      Except, of course, for changing itself to appear
      like Christianity. Or, adding a female or black
      Eck master for political correctness. Basically,
      they are watering down Eckankar so that it appears
      less "weird" to potential converts.

      So, summarizing, as far as Eckankar is concerned, is
      "group drumming" just a harmless activity, or is it

      (1) something that could cut into Eckankar's turf

      (2) something representing the "Kal powers/witchcraft/
      black magic" and therefore not in tune with Eckankar

      (3) part of somebody else's religion already

      I really don't know, but I hope I thought up some
      interesting theories for people to consider.

      So I guess the bottom line is that Eckankar has
      the right to disallow drumming sessions, but
      when I was a member I often wished they would
      give us an explanation as to why they made certain
      decisions. Too often, they either give a vague
      answer or no answer. And then we Eckists would
      sit around discuss all the possible reasons. In
      the end all we ended up with was a bunch of
      theories. But I am still interested in others thoughts
      on this topic.
    • prometheus_973
      Another crosspost from Eckankartruth: Hello Jonathan and All, Yes, the attempt to do a drumming circle was an innocent act, and it was meant to be fun! And,
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 2, 2009
        Another crosspost from Eckankartruth:

        Hello Jonathan and All,
        Yes, the attempt to do a "drumming
        circle" was an innocent act, and it was
        meant to be fun! And, I've been at ones
        where there was NO chanting just drumming!
        I find them interesting in that the drumming
        (sound) starts out as individualized/group
        chaos and then harmonizes into a Unity of
        Consciousness. It's a metaphor... for the
        spiritual life.

        Getting back to the use of fear and
        control tactics of religions and of Eckankar:

        Did Eckankar use metal detectors at the
        2009 EWWS? I always thought that was an
        over-the-top/knee-jerk reaction (a security/
        fear tactic) for Klemp to use after 9/11.

        Why should "God" (the Mahanta) be fearful
        of anything or anyone? Couldn't/wouldn't/
        shouldn't Rebazar and the other EK Masters
        manifest themselves to protect Klemp?
        Shouldn't HK be able to protect himself
        and his chelas on the outer, as well as
        (supposedly), on the inner? HK states
        that his "protection" is with his followers.
        But, where's the proof when H.I.s are dying
        of cancer etc. Actually, this is proof that
        Klemp is a liar. Guilt puts blame on the
        chela/H.I. for the cancer (besides, it's a
        "test" of faith) while Klemp dodges his
        promises and responsibilities.

        However, doubt began to creep into Eckists'
        consciousness when the "metal detectors"
        and "searches" began. This created more
        questioning of Klemp's abilities, and his
        truthfulness (as the LEM/Mahanta) began
        to be doubted even more so.

        When "God" (the Mahanta) is fearful and
        needs metal detectors, searches, and a
        security entourage one has to wonder
        about the validity of this religion.

        Then, of course, we have the aging factor.
        Other EK Masters live forever and appear
        rather youthful while Klemp is pale, old
        looking and wrinkled, grey-haired, and
        balding... like anyone else! I'm surprised
        that Eckists can't believe their own eyes!
        What delusion! How does one rationalize
        all of these facts and contradictions? Are
        people that desperate and needy? Yes!

        Eckankar is just another feel good religion
        with all of the rules and regulations and
        busy work, guilt/fear, and ego traps that
        all religions share. Every religion is unique
        and that's why they attract a certain like-
        minded group of individuals. Yet, all of
        these believers think they are right and
        everyone else is wrong and doomed! Unless,
        of course, the sinner is converted. Therefore,
        their "truth" must be shared with the world
        in order to "save" the non-believer from
        the negative effects of Kal, Satan, God, etc.

        And, in EK, there are "inflow" game points
        (initiations and positions) to be achieved
        while doing "God's" missionary (vahana)
        work to help raise the world's consciousness
        via this"outflow." The imagination is fun
        and useful and necessary, but it can, also,
        be a trap and a means of creating delusion.


        jonathan wrote:


        I just wanted to clarify to everybody
        that I wasn't trying to defend Eckankar
        when they canceled the drumming
        session. I was just trying to get into
        their head to try to figure out what
        kooky reason they had for canceling
        it. Unfortunately, I spent a lot of time
        engaged in that same process through
        the 29 years that I was a member

        I agree completely with your statement
        "Anyway, it just goes to show how
        religions like to control their followers
        via rules, laws, guidelines, guilt,
        and fear. Eckankar has the RESA Hierarchy
        (Police) to keep everyone on their

        As you stated, you and the other Eckists
        who were looking forward to the session
        saw it as something innocent, and whatever
        energy was going to be brought to the
        surface was a reflection of the Eck. I'm
        glad you mentioned that because I wasn't
        even thinking in those terms. Of course
        you were thinking in those terms! You
        were Eckists at an Eck seminar! So, yes,
        it does show how fanatical Eckankar
        is when it comes to enforcing the rule
        "the teachings of Eckankar must be kept
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